Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[The Pope's Tiara]

Sorry for being nervous in my first game.

[JonMW]

Well, I'd say that both WhereIsTony and Tiara have some kind of scummy stench hanging over their heads. However, I think I'll switch the way my vote swings.

Oh, who am I kidding? The only reason I voted for Tony in the first place was because he was the only one that stood out to me.

Unvote

The Pope's Tiara

Don't be nervous, Pope!

The innocent have nothing to fear.

[Yuu]

I'm wondering where Yuu is. Yuu, if you see this, don’t be shy, say hi!

Hi there! I'm unsure of what to do myself, being first game and all. So I wonder if it's okay just to watch people discuss a little more before deciding on who to vote, or is this an action frowned upon?

[JonMW]

Oh, crudmuffins. I

meant

to say:

Vote: The Pope's Tiara

[J_Slr]

Hi there! I'm unsure of what to do myself, being first game and all. So I wonder if it's okay just to watch people discuss a little more before deciding on who to vote, or is this an action frowned upon?

If you do not feel up to it, you do not have to vote, but making yourself heard, asking a few questions and taking part is much better, than lurking (an action that is frowned upon).

Lurking implies you are hiding something, either a useful townie role or scum. Which makes you a target for a lynch by day or if you are not scum, a NK target. Also without any input, how can people work out whether they can trust you or not?

[MichelSableheart]

Michel- I have never been able to find mafia by the way people confirm. That's some impressive scumhunting abilities you have there.

It's extremely rare to actually find mafia through confirmations. All I'm saying is that votes based on weak tells (which can be found in confirmations) do a better job of starting discussion then completely random votes do.

You wouldn't want to vote off a cop, would you? I mean, we don't know what anyone is, and my user name is p. cool.

Don't discuss town power roles unless you have an extremely good reason. Otherwise, you're just helping the mafia find them.

Why not go for someone who isn't playing? If we vote for the unconfirmed night (regardless of what he is), it will make no difference. He isn't playing anyway.

When you play Soduko, you need a few placed tiles to give you some basic guessing. When you play minesweeper, you need to click that first tile. When you're solving a cryptogram (for all you oldies), you need a hint to the first letter (I guess). Someone has to go or die, so I say it be the guy that isn't playing.

This is a misconception that many newbie players seem to have, and one that is easily abused by scum. There is a lot of information available even if noone has died yet. Who is voting who, and why? How do people react to certain statements? Who is being defended by who? Based on that information, it is possible to lynch scum with a higher certainty then random. If we just lynch someone randomly, we give up that chance to catch scum.

Besides, as M4yhem said, if he doesn't post, he'll be replaced. Let the mod take care of inactives.

Wow, you're taking this very seriously. The main reason I recommended him was because he wasn't me.

The main reason you should be recommending someone is because you believe they are scum. Any other reason to lynch will just give scum better chance for survival.

Hi there! I'm unsure of what to do myself, being first game and all. So I wonder if it's okay just to watch people discuss a little more before deciding on who to vote, or is this an action frowned upon?

That action is most definately frowned upon. If you don't post, don't give your opinion, you make it much more difficult for us to see if you are town or scum. Because of this, not posting (or not posting content) on purpose (as opposed to not posting because you simply aren't there) is considered a scumtell, because only scum benefit from the fact that they are unreadable. Town will want the other players to get the correct read on them, because this means there is a better chance to actually find scum.

The previous may sound like a contradiction with what I said to The Pope's Tiara. For clarity, here is a summary of my points.

• If someone is inactive, doesn't log on to the site, and doesn't post because of that, he will eventually be replaced. It is better to wait for that replacement to happen and base your read on that player on the behaviour of that replacement, then to lynch him without knowing anything at all.
• On the other hand, if a player is not posting because he wants to make it difficult to be read, he'll post just enough to avoid being replaced. In that situation, the fact that the player isn't posting does give us information, and that information may be reason enough to lynch.

[Yuu]

I see, thank you all for the clarification! I've seen some friends playing offline in a variant of this game, but generally they voted based on the previous knowledge they had from the person. As this is pretty much impossible in a newbie's game, where the people don't know each other, I was wondering how you'd do that in the first day.

You wouldn't want to vote off a cop, would you? I mean, we don't know what anyone is, and my user name is p. cool.

Pope's, you seem pretty much desperate to defend yourself, uh? This argument is really low. What about you giving a good reason?

Sorry for being nervous in my first game.

I'm sure pretty much everyone new is at least a bit nervous here. Claiming it like it's any excuse for your words make you look even more suspicious.

[J_Slr]

I see, thank you all for the clarification! I've seen some friends playing offline in a variant of this game, but generally they voted based on the previous knowledge they had from the person. As this is pretty much impossible in a newbie's game, where the people don't know each other, I was wondering how you'd do that in the first day.

I have watched mafia on another forum, and they discovered that when people base votes/speculation on previous games, its silly and rarely productive. So more often than not they use alts, and have very strange roles.

Maybe this place is different, but from what I have seen its better to base things on what people are doing in the current game.

[The Pope's Tiara]

If you guys really want to get rid of me that badly, then what can I do to stop you? All I could tell you is that I am a vanilla townie. If I was a super townie, then the mob would just kill me. If I was mafia, then it wouldn't behoove me to tell you such.

Mob mentality is a crazy thing, and seeing that there will be blood, I will not take part in a random lynching.

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

[J_Slr]

If you guys really want to get rid of me that badly, then what can I do to stop you? All I could tell you is that I am a vanilla townie. If I was a super townie, then the mob would just kill me. If I was mafia, then it wouldn't behoove me to tell you such.

Mob mentality is a crazy thing, and seeing that there will be blood, I will not take part in a random lynching.

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Who said anything about a random lynching?
(maybe I have missed something)

The day 1 voting is random initially, that is to get reactions and see what people do.

As there is no time limit on each day there is no point in random a lynch. With 9 players and 2 scum, the chances of a random lynch being any good is next to nothing.

Now looking back at your posts, I would say you have been feeling pressured, because you picked up a few votes. Relax, we will only lynch you if we feel you are scum (or the scum make us believe you are).

Personally I do not believe you are scum, I think you are jumping at shadows, why? I am not sure, maybe its nerves or maybe you are hiding something, but regardless this brings attention, the wrong kind, so calm down. Have a little fun. Read the posts that have been made. You see anything you think is dodgy, say something.

Unvote

- my vote is pointless at this time as the only inactive player I have noticed is hohum.

[M4yhem]

For the record, Pope's, it's a bad idea to suggest no lynch without a good reason. In a normal game, that would get you quite a lot of attention.

I'm really not sure what to make of you at the moment but it would really help if you defended yourself instead of giving up. Try answering questions instead of ignoring them too.

For example: why do you think someone who makes a random vote is likely scum?
Why do you think any lynch that we make today will be random?
Don't you think we have a chance of catching scum?
Do you think our chances of finding scum go up or down if we focus on the inactive players? Why?

Yuu- I will echo everything that's been said and say that it's better if you talk. You will learn much more by actively playing the game than by watching and it's easier for the rest of us to work out where you stand if we have something to go on.

You're already making a good start, I can see.

J_Slr- you're not going to vote

only

for inactives are you?

[J_Slr]

So at the moment, WhereIsTony and Pope's Tiara, seem to be taking the heat.

But I would like to point out to everyone, that Syphen has posted twice, he confirmed and then voted for WhereIsTony (random).

Calling Syphen, is there anything else you would like to say? are you nervous? Are you unable to access the net very often?

Or are you lurking???

[J_Slr]

M4yhem - I do not plan on voting only the inactives, but at the moment I see no one worth voting for.

I would rather my vote was not out there unless its useful and keeping it on michel seemed silly. Right now I just would like to see some discussion. Or at least a little more input.

[M4yhem]

Fair enough.

Good call on Syphen, I'd forgotten he'd existed.

[The Pope's Tiara]

For example: why do you think someone who makes a random vote is likely scum?
Why do you think any lynch that we make today will be random?
Don't you think we have a chance of catching scum?
Do you think our chances of finding scum go up or down if we focus on the inactive players? Why?

That post was meant to be ironic. I said it was scummy to vote randomly to make light of some people's strategy of early indicators of who is scum and and such. I then voted somewhat randomly as well.

I don't think it will be completely random, but at best won't be very good. Unless someone makes a really stupid statement, then day 1 is a terrible time to lynch. There is such a small chance (unless something happens) to get a mafia.

Not necessarily on the first day. Maybe after the night or once more people get talking, but only around half of the players seem to be actually conversing with what's going on. I think we need a bit more talk first.

I think focusing on inactive players could be somewhat useful. Sort of. What if one is scum? The other argument is of course that we can replace them with active players. That (on other boards and in the past) can lead to a bit of a stand still. Obviously once we get to a night stage (and after a murder/cop reveal) we will have a better idea of what's going on in town. Obviously looking at active players can help us to get a grip on their view point, but in a newbie game a mafia might be a bit worried about posting and drawing attention. They might also be the ones pointing the most fingers. They might be somewhere in the middle. It could be me. I think more surveying needs to go on, but without a night phase first there aren't many actual facts to go on. Just speculation.

[M4yhem]

I like this post much more than your other ones.

Unvote, Vote:JonMW

[Yuu]

Unvote, Vote:JonMW

Why voting for him, M4yhem? He did look very anxious and all, placing a third vote on Pope before letting him explain himself, was it because of that?

[Erg0]

somedamnkid replaces hohum

Welcome!

[JonMW]

M4yhem, if voting for this (extremely suspicious, in my opinion) character will only get your vote pointed at me, then I'll change it.

Unvote

I used to play Cry Wolf - an online version of mafia that used a chat window rather than a forum. It was a lot more fast-paced and less thinky. It's probably taught me some bad playing habits.

So now, the question remains. Who do I vote for? My opinion, however, is the same. Tiara is the most suspicious one around. When I get the time this afternoon, I'll go over the entire thread and see if my theories hold together.

Vote: No Lynch

This vote will change when someone else sticks their head out.

[somedamnkid]

Well, I'd say that both WhereIsTony and Tiara have some kind of scummy stench hanging over their heads. However, I think I'll switch the way my vote swings.

I don't like the look of this post. voting someone because of a "scummy stench" and being flaky when placing a vote just seems to suspicious to me.

Vote: JonMW

[JonMW]

Well, I'd say that both WhereIsTony and Tiara have some kind of scummy stench hanging over their heads. However, I think I'll switch the way my vote swings.

I don't like the look of this post. voting someone because of a "scummy stench" and being flaky when placing a vote just seems to suspicious to me.

Vote: JonMW

Be serious. Do you have enough reason to eliminate a single person in this town from your suspicions?
I switched my vote because Tiara, through his tactics (attempting to repel more votes by claiming to be cop) became more suspicious than Tony was to me at the beginning (which was a vote based on practically nothing).
Then, Tiara's most recent post apparently convinced M4yhem that he was, in fact, Townie. M4yhem begins to protect Tiara by moving his vote onto me.
I don't currently have enough "evidence" to suspect that Tiara and M4yhem are the mafia. So, In order to "prove" to M4yhem that I'm not out to get Tiara at all costs, I remove my vote.

That's all the justification I can give. You, however, have a lot of justifying to do.

[JonMW]

OK, I just looked over the thread again and something's stood out to me. That thing is Syphen.
He's lurking - one post to confirm his playing, and one vote for WhereIsTony. Apart from that, total silence.
By Michel's logic, lurking in thie manner is starving us of information and he's obstructing justice. That's one black mark.
Next black mark is that he voted for Tony just when he already had two votes against him, and the most voted-for citizen. So it looks that instead of justifying his actions, he just directed his vote in the hopes of helping Tony get lynched. Removing a person - almost any person will do, in the eyes of the mafia - and the most likely person to be lynched at that point was Tony.

Vote: Syphen

[JonMW]

My grammar wasn't the most clear in that last post. Let's see that I can restate it.

Tony had already collected two votes against himself at that point. He had become the most voted-for citizen, and therefore the most likely to be lynched. Syphen, (assuming that he is mafia) also voted for Tony for this reason, and this reason alone. Because it's working in his favour to lynch anyone who isn't mafia.

I think that improved the clarity of my statement.

[Erg0]

Vote Count

JonMW 2 (M4yhem, somedamnkid)
WhereIsTony 1 (Syphen)
The Pope's Tiara 1 (WhereIsTony)
Syphen 1 (JonMW)
No Lynch 1 (The Pope's Tiara)

Not Voting 3 (Yuu, MichelSableheart, J_Slr)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

[MichelSableheart]

I personally think it's still a bit early to call Syphen an active lurker. The game hasn't been going for that long.

The Pope's Tiara, there is a serious flaw in your plan to no lynch in order to get information. Assume for a moment we have no power roles whatsoever (which has, ignoring information players have gotten from their rolepm, a 25 % chance of happening). Not lynching in that case will allow the mafia to kill a player, leaving eight players alive. If there are lynches and nightkills each day and night after that, we must hit mafia in either of our next two lynches, or there will be two townies vs two mafiosi, resulting in a mafia win. Right now, if there are no powerroles, we have 3 chances to hit a mafiamember before we have lost. No lynching in that scenario would simply cost us an attempt to lynch mafia. And even if we do have powerroles, the situation isn't much better. A doctor is unlikely to receive information (the chance of a succesful protect is pretty low), and a cop may be nightkilled or have his target nightkilled. And if we have both a cop and doctor, the cop may be blocked too. Basically, if we vote no lynch, we give up a lynch for too little gain.