Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End
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Ydrasse She*twirls hair*She
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the funniest world is the world where i get limmed by the people who didn’t vote sheep yesterday i think and then tomorrow everyone’s sitting there like huh how did that one happen who could have seen this turn of events-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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ok i mean yea either it's in ceph/dunn/me (the people who voted aureal) or scum voted sheep
so yea we could just yeet those three and hope that scum committed to trying to keep both partners alive but i think we're probably capable of better than that and i don't think it's silly to consider worlds where scum bussed
maybe it is one of ceph/dunn idk im not ruling that out, if you're town then id like your takes on them-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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realistically we're going to do what aisa/mena want today unless someone makes a really compelling case against one of them
but those three people alone do not have enough votes to yeet anything anyway so im not sure what that concern is kinda"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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In post 2481, fireisredsir wrote:
ok sorry yea everyone please like read pages 58 to 61 or soIn post 1532, Egix96 wrote:
I agree with the first bit, but unless you now think that fire v skitter is tvt then I don't see why we shouldn't just stay the course.In post 1528, Menalque wrote: I would kill sheep > aureal, if that's the direction we're going in then I'll stop pushing fire because I think we should only have one more slot claim today at most
VOTE: ydrasse
Oh this is like, where I actually give arguments against sheep where it seemed possible to get another counterwagon going on him. Which apparently you totally tuned out I guess because you decided I was scum or something.
And then nobody can understand why I'm all "!?!?!???!?" when you say CEPH was the one trying to find a different wagon.
VOTE: Ydrasse"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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I had some sort of epiphany yesterday that allowed me to townlean Dunn. I wish I could remember what the epiphany was-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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The situation today:
{Mena, Ceph}
{Ydra, Aureal}
{fire, Dunn}
This explicitly will have some overlap with my readslist yesterday. The basic new thing is that I took more of a look at Ceph and I feel much better about his slot than I did off the top of my head yesterday
medium-strength townreadMena:
reasons:
- this post seems pure
- generally the things everyone townreads him for, his fire case especially
doubts:
- the things I TR him for are basically all instances of him acting unusually certain of his reads in a way that seems towny to me. I could be wrong if he's good at faking this as scum.
medium-strength townreadCeph:
reasons:
- list of posts that to me have towny perspectives: 930, 971, 1013 (specifically the "that's not how I play mafia" combined with the specific observation that he townread Andante), 2240 (see previous posts for context), parts of 2375
- overall vibes. Like of course each of the previous specific posts is fakeable but overall I get the impression he is driven by trying to solve the game.
doubts:
- I'm sorry but my brain does not vibe with the near-dogmatic certainty that Aureal is scum he displays at some points
- Posts like 2241? I disagree with this take though even here I think I kinda buy the "it feels self-explanatory..."
medium-strength townread, but adjusted down because everyone is suspicious of this slotAureal:
I don't know where to start explaining this slot, this is a problem for future me
townleanYdra:
Spoiler:
Idk I still kinda like my theory here overall
??? pending me remembering what the heck I was thinking yesterday or developing some new opinionDunn:
fire:
eehhh some parts of his ISO are ok but overall as I scroll through I feel that most of it is fakeable. There's a lot of hedging and soft opinions. Which I am in no position to criticise, as my whole existence is hedging and soft opinions. This slot is cursed.-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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I think the next steps for me are:
- Review Dunn
- Review Ydrasse slot, in particular whatever people have been saying about the interactions with sheep
I think my vote is most likely to settle within Ydra, Dunn, or fire today but we'll see-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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Oh explicitlyV/LA for the next 24 hoursso I don't get tempted to procrastinate on some important but aversive IRL stuff tomorrow-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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yeah reading it back this last time, i kinda did before i guess, my badIn post 2503, Aureal wrote:In post 2481, fireisredsir wrote:
ok sorry yea everyone please like read pages 58 to 61 or soIn post 1532, Egix96 wrote:
I agree with the first bit, but unless you now think that fire v skitter is tvt then I don't see why we shouldn't just stay the course.In post 1528, Menalque wrote: I would kill sheep > aureal, if that's the direction we're going in then I'll stop pushing fire because I think we should only have one more slot claim today at most
VOTE: ydrasse
Oh this is like, where I actually give arguments against sheep where it seemed possible to get another counterwagon going on him. Which apparently you totally tuned out I guess because you decided I was scum or something.
And then nobody can understand why I'm all "!?!?!???!?" when you say CEPH was the one trying to find a different wagon.
VOTE: Ydrasse
i do think that ceph stepping back after being tunneled feels more significant to me than you who hadn't ever landed on a place to go
but i think knowing sheep is scum and knowing that you were trying specifically to go to sheep does make those points stand out more than they did before-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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As an apprentice Dunn alignment diviner, I'd like to ask if you could elaborate on thisIn post 1904, fireisredsir wrote: btw i finished dunn meta refresher course and i actually really think he's town here
like a lot more confident than i thought i was
i was actually thinking that team mafia would show me his scumrange was wider than i thought it was bc i heard he played a good game. and he did. but the mindset and approach is still really different than how he's approaching this game, and how he approaches his town games, imo-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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this basicallyIn post 1921, fireisredsir wrote:
as scum he forces himself to talk about things that he doesn't really care about and as town he just talks about things that he cares about. i think it's noticeable when he's pushing himself to make a postIn post 1918, sheepsaysmeep wrote: aureal is wolfy but I still think dunn is very wolf and am basically tunneled on dunn/fire until a flip
fire's post about meta was not convincing. I looked through dunn wolfgames, and my conclusion was basically "he has an insanely wide wolfrange so I dont think I will be able to give him meta points in this game," rather than "that game felt different than this game so he's villa". fire if ur v and want to convince me I'd probably want u to talk about why his past villa games and wolf games are noticeably different and then this looks like the first set, rather than mainly based on 1 game. The one line I can see here is that dunn seemed more interested in the wolf games I opened, and extreme refusal to put effort into this game could actually be town for some people with meta like that + explain some of the things I find wolfy lol. but I dont love that read because it still feels like theres some level of investment there that he pretends isnt there, as opposed to another half of the playerlist noping out and being like "I hate this game"
in both cases sometimes depending on the game he cares about more things or less things and activity can reflect that. and sometimes there's things he cares about as both alignments, like how activity isn't AI for him despite many people claiming it is
he's usually a bit cleaner as scum, making sure to justify progressions and show his work when developing a read on someone, while as town he doesn't really feel as much pressure to do that. i think his attitude also tends to come through a lot more as town, as scum there's definitely a bit of a wall up, and any arguments feel a little disengaged and precise
he's not an easy read bc i think he always has a bit of that wall up as either alignment, and isn't super forthcoming with his thoughts. but i think once you get a feel for the style of how he approaches things, you can see it. on a surface level the posting can look fairly similar but you have to look deeper for the intent behind the posts
im not like 100% convinced by it idk. i really didn't like his aureal vote even when i thought aureal was scum, although the way he's approached today so far doesn't really feel like scum? and maybe the vote fits into what i said here about not minding that his progression wasn't clean? but there were moments i remember in invictus where (with some encouragement iirc) he made similar somewhat risky choices that came out sounding similarly stiff
the way sheep interacted around asking me for it is potentially useful info but i haven't gotten that far yet-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i don't think this has ever been wrong in these type of situations btw and yet i always think "but maybe not this time"In post 2181, fireisredsir wrote: sheep is probably the slot that i feel worse about limming if im wrong which sometimes means it's right-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I mean… okay I’ll read them but at least from this post I’m not seeing any slam dunk sorta reasonIn post 2481, fireisredsir wrote:
ok sorry yea everyone please like read pages 58 to 61 or soIn post 1532, Egix96 wrote:
I agree with the first bit, but unless you now think that fire v skitter is tvt then I don't see why we shouldn't just stay the course.In post 1528, Menalque wrote: I would kill sheep > aureal, if that's the direction we're going in then I'll stop pushing fire because I think we should only have one more slot claim today at most
VOTE: ydrasse"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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it was more about aureal to me on those pages, but then that post showed up right after what looked to me like momentum starting to potentially shift towards sheep-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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i appreciate that you're reading and considering at least tho-
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Dunnstral he/himGoodfellashe/him
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What is making me hesitate to say it is Ydrasse is that they voted for sheep yesterday.-
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fireisredsir Goodfellas/Rising Star
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can you elaborate on your thoughtsIn post 2516, Dunnstral wrote: What is making me hesitate to say it is Ydrasse is that they voted for sheep yesterday.-
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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It'd be lovely if you could explain why you think I'm the only one who would bus there."Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance-
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Dunnstral he/himGoodfellashe/him
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My thoughts are that Ydrasse did not "need" to vote for sheep over aureal, but aureal didn't have a choice because the day closed in on being one between the two of them.-
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Ydrasse She*twirls hair*
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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Ok I skimmed two Dunn games (specifically, mafia: viewtopic.php?t=90967 , town: viewtopic.php?t=91073) and Ithinkhe looks a little closer to the town game here? I have very low confidence in this conclusion but it is a conclusion nonetheless.
I'd describe the difference between the two games as: in the town game it feels like he has more posts where he is "thinking out loud" or presenting half-baked musings ("I wonder if this means that X is town", "one idea I had was that..."). In the scum game he was (imo) more likely to just state a conclusion ("I think this makes [player] scum").
(Idk what I was expecting but the difference ended up being simpler than I thought.)
I remembered btw but in hindsight it was not based on muchIn post 2504, Aisa wrote: I had some sort of epiphany yesterday that allowed me to townlean Dunn. I wish I could remember what the epiphany was-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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So I think the next stop for me is to look at Ydra slot's posting a bit more, after which maybe? I'll be able to say who I'm leaning towards yeeting today.-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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This seems a bit tinfoil-y, I think 875 is one of those fairly boilerplate posts scum make to justify jumping on a wagon and I don’t think it tells you much about what sheep’s partner must have been thinking or doing at the timeIn post 2445, fireisredsir wrote: i think CSF's positioning around enchant is fairly scummy actually in hindsight around post 850 and i think sheep may have kinda noticed and tmi'd it a bit in 875 (and then never really revisited this take)-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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CSF’s positioning around Enchant is definitely notable, I don’t think I find it scummy though. Personally I don’t recall anything in her tone or justification for the read feeling weird nor do I think opposing the Enchant wagon lightly is inherently scummy
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