Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[AnimatedWiz]

Taking out Smiley was probably the best choice in each scenario where one of us is mafia—he’s the closest to conftown out of all of us and would mean the other townie alive would probably just vote for the mafia by default.

Shea probably had the least reason, as Smiley trusted him the most out of us, but I don’t think him killing me or Enchant would be worth the possibility of getting an insta-vote.

I probably have the most reason to kill Smiley, because it helps validate the idea that I’m the most mech-cleared due to be jailed, and since Smiley said that OWER and I couldn’t be paired due to us firing on all cylinders at each other it also makes that idea seem more ironclad.

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m unsure what to make of Enchant’s bluff about them being mafia during twilight—could be a play to make the other mafia member reveal themselves by responding weirdly, or could just be an attempt to look like that.

Neither Shea or Smiley responded in ways that made super suspicious, so I don’t feel like I got too much out of that interaction aside from just being confused.

[AnimatedWiz]

Enchant has worse associations overall, especially with Python, but Shea’s been a lot less directly interactive with anyone. I need to comb through the ISOs and see what I can find on that.

Currently leaning towards Enchant, but I’m not going to be stupid and vote early without getting a better feel for what’s happening here.

[Enchant]

You really didn't learn from your mistakes from previous game.

[AnimatedWiz]

Well, if I was mafia, I would say making sure I get to the final ELO with the most mech in my favor is a good change from my last game where mech did me in.

[Enchant]

There's nothing in your favor, considering we know that remaining mafia member is PR with ability to block actions.


Prove otherwise.

[Dannflor]

VC 7.0

This is Halloween

Not Voting [3]:

Thestatusquo, Enchant, AnimatedWiz

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to eliminate. Day 7 ends in (expired on 2023-12-09 15:06:32).

Mod Notes:

[AnimatedWiz]

It’s very unlikely that a game with two Roleblockers with the ability to target each other a Jailkeeper and a Mafia Roleblocker in this case) would be allowed by the mods to avoid issues with NAR (since you run into issue about whether the Roleblocker is considered protected or not).

However, a situation with Roleblocker and a Rolestopper who cannot self-target (a Jailkeeper and a Simple/Disloyal Mafia Rolestopper) is easy to resolve and would also explain THS’s lack of results on OWER.

We know that both mafia who have died are not Rolestoppers, which means that the remaining mafia HAS to be the Rolestopper. If I’m the last Mafia, I could not prevent my own jailing, which then prevents me from killing anyone.

Technically, OWER could have been the one to commit both kills, but that requires some good guessing on targets.

[AnimatedWiz]

In the universe where I’m mafia, OWER has to commit both of those kills.

In the universe where you or Shea is mafia, either you or OWER has the possibility to commit those kills.

I’m not confirmed, but there are more possibilities explaining those kills if I’m not the scum here.

[Enchant]

What rolestopper?

Jailkeeper blatantly stopped kill. Rolestopper didn't target teammate who performs kill? Nonsense really.

[Enchant]

Fairly no mafia actions make sense.

[AnimatedWiz]

What are you talking about? Both nights I was jailed, someone died (Black N3, Roden N4).

Plus, it doesn’t matter who the Rolestopper targeted on N3 or N4 as long as it wasn’t me (which, if I’m the Rolestopper, I probably can’t target myself to avoid NAR issues). What about my argument on there being a Rolestopper instead of a Roleblocker is confusing you?

[Enchant]

Disloyal Rolestopper are not possibility again, because JOAT track failed on MAFIA member (Claim was to track on OWEN), so if there IS mafia rolestopper, they can target other mafia members.

[AnimatedWiz]

Oh, good catch—has to be a Simple Rolestopper, then! Prevents self-targeting but allows for you to target a Mafia Goon.

[Enchant]

Why you insist on existance of Rolestopper instead of roleblocker

[Enchant]

Even if theory that Mafia Rolestopper exist, then it does nothing to help your case.

You could simple target OWEN every single time. If OWEN jailed you block jailkeeper. If you jailed, OWEN still free to act.

[AnimatedWiz]

Because of the issues with resolution—if there is a Mafia Roleblocker, they would have to be unable to target the Jailkeeper, because otherwise it would be difficult to figure out what actually happens

If, for example, Smiley and the Mafia Roleblocker target each other, and then THS uses his vigilante shot on the Mafia Roleblocker, what happens? Is the Roleblocker protected due to the Jailkeeper? But the Roleblocker is preventing the Jailkeeper from jailing them… but the Jailkeeper is prevent the Roleblocker from targeting them, and so on and so forth.

None of the Normal modifiers you can give a Roleblocker can prevent this while still allowing them to prevent THS’s track on OWER.

But a Simple Rolestopper is immune to these issues since it can’t target themselves, and also allows for the failed track to be explained since it can target OWER.

[Enchant]

Rolestopper can't target self by default, as well as Doctor.

[Enchant]

I know what i talking about, i tried to bodyguard self in Datisi game and made him mad.

[AnimatedWiz]

Even if theory that Mafia Rolestopper exist, then it does nothing to help your case.

You could simple target OWEN every single time. If OWEN jailed you block jailkeeper. If you jailed, OWEN still free to act.

I suppose it’s still possible, that’s true.

I do think my argument about there being a Simple Rolestopper holds up though—I would find it incredibly unlikely for there to be any other role that could explain the results here.

[Enchant]

Okay Simple Rolestopper exist.


They defended OWEN instead of Python (Who obviously performed kill).


Why?

[AnimatedWiz]

Probably because OWER was more suspicious at that point in the game. He had been the target of a major wagon already, and by contrast Python was townread by most people.

Likely thought that a possible Vigilante kill or Cop investigation on OWER would be more likely than someone doing the same to Python.

[Enchant]

Then why not let OWER perform kill as well.

[AnimatedWiz]

Then why not let OWER perform kill as well.

Mm, that is a good point. Scum almost certainly knew that they could multi-task (heck, even Python said it publicly later on), so that wouldn’t explain it, and Python wasn’t a Ninja or Unstoppable and therefore doesn’t have an inherent reason to kill over OWER.

I guess that, since OWER performing the kill is the optimal decision here, we have to assume it’s either a) bad strategy or b) weird strategy. I mean, the kills

have

been rather odd all game, so I think it fits into the pattern we already have.

[AnimatedWiz]

I just wish we could know the thought process behind everything. I can see the Black and Roden kills explained as trying to assist OWER’s push on me, but I would think it easier to just help me miselim Roden and then miselim me due to all the backlash.