Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[bionicchop2]

I find it odd that people agree with crywolf looking scummy, but then vote for Lowell.

##vote: Crywolf

Can I ask what I've done scummy in your opinion before I get a little ticked off at the vote?

Why would anybody get ticked off at any vote?

I have reasons for my vote. My next post in this game will include them.

[crywolf20084]

I find it odd that people agree with crywolf looking scummy, but then vote for Lowell.

##vote: Crywolf

Can I ask what I've done scummy in your opinion before I get a little ticked off at the vote?

Why would anybody get ticked off at any vote?

I have reasons for my vote. My next post in this game will include them.

I can get ticked off if I don't understand where the vote is coming from. And I can't wait to hear what you have to say.

[bionicchop2]

Emotions (ticked off) should play no part in mafia.

[bionicchop2]

Reasons why my vote is on crywolf (these items have you currently as my most scummy player. This does not mean you are scum, but you are my top suspect).

With you claiming, I can still see the cop invetigating you, just to make sure, and then outting himself to let everyone know that you

did

came up guilty.

suggestion for cop to out themself (role fishing)

I agree with Lowell, but not enough to put a third vote on your head yet.

This post satisfies me, and now makes me wanna think about Lowell.

Here you went from understanding Lowell's post which accuses Tony to then being suspicious of Lowell because of Tony's response. I am not sure what it means, but the flip to the complete opposite side of the argument when neither have really said enough IMO to be convincing the other is scum.

I'll have a nice post tomorrow when I'm not feeling so bad with allergies.

Promise to make an analysis with a failure to follow up (that was posted Friday. It is now monday and you are obviously posting in the thread). This has been used by scum to appear more active / helpful than they are.

[crywolf20084]

Promise to make an analysis with a failure to follow up (that was posted Friday. It is now monday and you are obviously posting in the thread). This has been used by scum to appear more active / helpful than they are.

This I apologize for. I had a post on the last page that adressed some of the things bugging me, which is what you're replying to.

As for the rest of the stuff, thank you for making them known.

[Tommy]

I think you may be under a misapprehension about what QFT means, crywolf. It stands for "quoted for truth" - it doesn't mean shut up. Why do you particularly dislike post 94?

[gorckat]

Vote Count

TonyMontana (2):

Elias, Lowell

crywolf (2):

iamausername, bionic

Ythill:

Rashiminos

Lowell:

TonyMontana

Not voting (6):

crywolf, Darox, Tommy, Westbrook, Ythill, fhqwhgads

[iamausername]

I find it odd that people agree with crywolf looking scummy, but then vote for Lowell.

Indeed.

I mentioned the word "lynch" once. (far from suggesting it)

So, if I was to say "we should lynch TonyMontana right now", would that not be suggesting it?

How was I "pushing" for a bandwagon in that post? (It's post 50) I FOSed him, and that was good enough for me at the time. I didn't go shouting that we need to lynch Tony that moment.

By pointing at him as suspicious, you're inviting others to take a closer look at him to see if there is any truth to your points, that's how you're pushing. And by using a FoS instead of a vote, it's easy for you to back away from it when nobody bites.

I shouldn't be completely trusted.

QFT (that means Quoted For Truth, FYI (that means For Your Information)).

---

I need to get a meta read on town-fhqwhgads, to see if he's reminding me of his scum play because he's scum, or if it's just because he's fhqwhgads.

[Ythill]

Huh. I always thought QFT meant Quite Fucking True. That's what I mean when I say it.

Tony posted my least favorite answer (to the questions I asked) and he's done a couple of vaguely scummy things, but I don't find him overly suspicious.

Lowell is a little too emotional and doesn't seem altogether sane, but that's just Lowell. I've mislynched him before and he was acting just like this. Not saying he's town, but eveything he's done so far has been null for him.

The wolf wagon is intriguing. She's role-fished, which is definately a scumtell, and bionic had a couple of other good points. Add to them the fact that wolf calls position changing a scumtell in #96 while she's doing it herself, as well as arguing that an FoS is not "pushing the wagon". I don't think the "ticked off" argument is anything but sematics but her EBWOP might have been Freudian. It's certainly worth seeing where the wagon goes.

So my first vote goes to

##vote crywolf20084

.

@wolf: If quickly changing stances is a known scumtell, why would you do it as town?

[Elias_the_thief]

1)

Bionicchop - your answer (67) to ythills question (66) is somewhat disappointing. I think he was looking more for something like what you thought of the flavor, which you didnt take any sort of stance on. And yeah, if he wasnt asking that, well I am.

2)

post 70 by rashiminos (or whatever) brought to my attention your confidence in users claim. Now that I think about it, it does seem really weird to believe it 100%, essentially saying hes cleared in your mind. Then I was going to ask why you believed it so firmly, but then I recalled your list. But I have some problems with it. Let us engage in a little debate:

Why you should believe iamausername's claim:

1) WIFOM notwithstanding, it's too risky for a scum to make this claim on PAGE 1

I don't see why. What makes it so risky? Isn't this claim more believable day 1 then any other time, thus making day 1 the only plausible time to make the claim as scum?

2) There could be multiple scumgroups/an SK/etc. So even if he's scum, there's a chance being "cleared" by town will get him killed by another faction, again making it pointless to fake.

Multiple scumgroups are rare, making it a small chance of being killed by another faction. Additionally, SK would be more interested in taking out possible scumbags than a cleared town, IMO. The equivalent of a cleared townie shouldnt be a high priority for a SK. There is no way that these small possibilities of difficulty should make claiming "pointless" and your choice of words reads as an exaggeration to me. Third reason is dumb.

Continued:

Montana never suggests metagaming (I did that though, thats a good strategy), he doesnt suggest flavor testing he just mentions that the given flavor is plausible. He doesnt seem to advocate lynching or counterclaiming, just states that those two ways are the only ways to know the truth behind the claim. fake claiming is inherant in the conversation of the truth of a claim. So...91 is complete BS. Why are you so blatantly exaggerating points and misrepresenting tony?

3)

User - Can you honestly say that you dont think the bit in 107 about suggesting lynches is a logic stretch, a leading question, and really not too relevant to the original usage of the word lynch? If not, then why make the post? What are your opinions on crywolf and why are you exaggerating points on her?

4)

bionicchop - I made a turnaround on the lowell montana interaction similar to crywolfs. was that scummy as well? If not, why not? If so, why havent you mentioned it? Crywolf is scummy for poorly veiled fishing, but besides that your case is pretty weak.

Now I will close with an

##unvote, ##vote: Lowell

.

[Elias_the_thief]

EBWOP: I just realized that question 3 asking about leading questions is in fact a leading question >.< sorry about that but I feel pretty strongly about that point.

[bionicchop2]

1)

Bionicchop - your answer (67) to ythills question (66) is somewhat disappointing. I think he was looking more for something like what you thought of the flavor, which you didnt take any sort of stance on. And yeah, if he wasnt asking that, well I am.

I find nothing in the flavor claim that would lead me to believe it is not legit. The problem with flavor is that scum are usually given flavor too (correct me if I am wrong, but that was the case in the only other game I have played with flavor added).

4)

bionicchop - I made a turnaround on the lowell montana interaction similar to crywolfs. was that scummy as well? If not, why not? If so, why havent you mentioned it? Crywolf is scummy for poorly veiled fishing, but besides that your case is pretty weak.

I don't feel a need to point out every minute post / action I feel is scummy. Just is not my style (adapted from when I started). I do find a quick change in stance with those 2 in particular to be slightly scummy. My reason being that neither has made a solid case against the other - at least not enough to be so overwhelmingly convincing you forget prior suspicion of them and switch to the person they are suspicious of.

I never said crywolf was the scummiest person I ever met or implied I had a rock solid case against her. We are 6 pages into the game. I clearly said she was the person I currently find scummiest. There is a general 'tone' to her posts that also sets me off a little. That is not something I would use to convince others on a lynch since it is hard to describe and even harder to convince people of.

[fhqwhgads]

I'm leaning towards both Lowell and Crywolf for now, however, crywolf gives me the impression of being inexperienced, rather than doing scummy things on purpose, but this is more a feeling, a read I'm getting off her.

Lowell's attitude really bugs me (not a scumtell, I know) and his flagrant attack via exaggeration makes me all the more weary, but I do take Ythill's warning on his gameplay style into account.

I think these two should justify their actions as soon as possible.

[TonyMontana]

I mentioned the word "lynch" once. (far from suggesting it)

So, if I was to say "we should lynch TonyMontana right now", would that not be suggesting it?

Let me help you fill in the blanks:

(

I was

far from suggesting it.)

[Lowell]

##unvote, ##vote crywolf

. Bandwagoning. I don't think we'll get much of a read out of her unless she feels the pressure.

[fhqwhgads]

Bandwagoning

Are you accusing her, or describing your own actions?

[TonyMontana]

Either way, I'm comfortable with my vote right now.

[Tommy]

Lowell, do you feel like responding to my post 94?

[Elias_the_thief]

Or perhaps my 109?

[Lowell]

Bandwagoning

Are you accusing her, or describing your own actions?

Describing my own. I'm saying I think this is a good bandwagon.

[Lowell]

@Tommy's94- iamausername claimed miller becuase he thought it was the right thing to do. When asked for flavor, he gave some. Generally speaking, those who at this point are STILL clamoring for more flavor are not doing the town any favors. More flavor only makes things easier for scum should they decide to fake-claim in the future. The way TM casually brought that up, implying he wanted to draw more out of the claim, is NOT pro-town.

[Elias_the_thief]

(Point 2 in 109 was directed at lowell)

[iamausername]

3)

User - Can you honestly say that you dont think the bit in 107 about suggesting lynches is a logic stretch, a leading question, and really not too relevant to the original usage of the word lynch? If not, then why make the post?

It's certainly a logic stretch, that was kind of the point. I was stretching Tony's argument to its logical end to show how it was invalid. Reductio ad absurdum.

What are your opinions on crywolf and why are you exaggerating points on her?

I currently think crywolf is the most likely scum in the bunch. Which points do you think I've been exaggerating?

Generally speaking, those who at this point are STILL clamoring for more flavor are not doing the town any favors.

True, but I can't see how saying the flavour I've given sounds plausible is in any way pushing for me to provide more.

[Lowell]

@elias- regardless of their primary goal, no scumgroup is going to want a miller around at endgame. So he'd have to be AWFULLY certain there are no other scumgroups than his to make such a claim on page 1.

[gorckat]

Vote Count

crywolf (4):

iamausername, bionic, Ythill, Lowell

Lowell (2):

TonyMontana, Elias

Ythill:

Rashiminos

Not voting (5):

crywolf, Darox, Tommy, Westbrook, , fhqwhgads

**Darox has been prodded**

EDIT: Fixed vote count