Large Normal 247 - Postgame

Normal Games (With basic roles and standard mechanics) Signups Here
User avatar
Oblivion
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
Goon
Posts: 533
Joined: February 21, 2024
Pronoun: It/Its

Post Post #75 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:10 am

Post by Oblivion »

In post 67, Gypyx wrote: obliving sure says a lot of words but i'm not sure if it makes it town yet

i'm kinda curious about how Penguin following usual penguin meta makes him more likely town when like, sheeping on a page 1 wagon is not the hardest thing in the world
It isn't meta, but rather a mental model. It attempts to make models of player behaviour by playing with and understanding how they will react situationally. It seeks to understand, then apply these lessons by asking itself to think within that mental model, and whether the response makes sense or if there is an outside influence that is affecting that response, then seeking motivation from being in that Model.

Having played precisely one game with Penguin, as it being scum, it got to see much of how Penguin approaches a game. It thinks that the teasing, off the cuff but effective manner in which Penguin approached his vote fits within its model of him and so it sees him most strongly as town from that.

Here is a question in return for you. If indeed the creation and reaction to these wagons are indicative of finding scum and town and sorting alignments, why is its method less effective than yours? What methods are you using, and from these interactions who is town or scum to you?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.

And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
no one else has ever loved this way before.
User avatar
davesaz
davesaz
He
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
davesaz
He
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12556
Joined: August 24, 2014
Pronoun: He
Location: Socially distant

Post Post #76 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:11 am

Post by davesaz »

Titus's vote isn't much more than a RVS, in fact it might be exactly that. I'd call that NAI.
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
User avatar
Alianna
Alianna
She/Her
Death by 1000 Pagetops
User avatar
User avatar
Alianna
She/Her
Death by 1000 Pagetops
Death by 1000 Pagetops
Posts: 4469
Joined: February 23, 2022
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: Land of the Freeze

Post Post #77 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:11 am

Post by Alianna »

1.03
Votecount 1.03


Snow2697 (4): Titus, geraintm, Little Will o' Wisp, PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys
Hu Tao (1): davesaz
Little Will o' Wisp (1): Gypyx
KayJayQueue (1): Thomith

Not Voting (7): Random Nurse, Oblivion, Hu Tao, Snow2697, NotAScum, KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-25 12:26:37).
Last edited by Alianna on Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I townread Alianna.

Post #1000s Collected: 24
On hiatus from playing mafia.
User avatar
Naerys
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3242
Joined: November 11, 2019
Pronoun: she
Location: Czech Republic

Post Post #78 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:12 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 57, Oblivion wrote:
In post 53, Thomith wrote:
In post 46, Oblivion wrote:
In post 43, Gypyx wrote:
In post 41, Thomith wrote: UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao
i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith
Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?
In post 9, Gypyx wrote: VOTE: Snow
In post 13, Titus wrote:
VLA until Monday like in signups


VOTE: Snow
In post 32, PenguinPower wrote: VOTE: snow
These ones, it thinks.
i dont agree with this
User avatar
Oblivion
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
Goon
Posts: 533
Joined: February 21, 2024
Pronoun: It/Its

Post Post #79 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:12 am

Post by Oblivion »

In post 71, davesaz wrote: Penguin has the same philosophy that I have. Early large wagons are quite valuable to town. I think Oblivion's take on Penguin meta is correct. It would be a very easy thing to fake as scum, so the town conclusion is a but suspect.
I can't town bin Oblivion on that because its approach was very similar in the last game and it flipped scum. It's only a sample size of 1 so not very strong.
Perhaps you will have to adopt its strategy and attempt to model its mind to learn the difference. It understands that between the manner in which it speaks, its pronouns and its general.... Weapon Doll Energy, it is not particularly easy to distinguish.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.

And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
no one else has ever loved this way before.
User avatar
Oblivion
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
Goon
Posts: 533
Joined: February 21, 2024
Pronoun: It/Its

Post Post #80 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:13 am

Post by Oblivion »

In post 76, davesaz wrote: Titus's vote isn't much more than a RVS, in fact it might be exactly that. I'd call that NAI.
It disagrees. It thinks she would have to have seen the wagon size and chosen to vote there over starting another wagon, no?
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.

And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
no one else has ever loved this way before.
User avatar
KayJayQueue
KayJayQueue
She/Her
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
KayJayQueue
She/Her
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2657
Joined: February 20, 2024
Pronoun: She/Her

Post Post #81 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:14 am

Post by KayJayQueue »

In post 74, Thomith wrote:
In post 70, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 66, Thomith wrote:
In post 42, KayJayQueue wrote: Is this real? lol Day 1 is silly
In contrast, I'm finding myself disliking this reaction.

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Do you have any opinions on the speed wagon? Any votes you find weirder than the others?
I find it crazy that it was that close to an elimination. I have done the random vote at the very beginning before but I’m much more tentative to make a real vote initially until I get a better feeling so I can’t tell if the speed voting is just for fun or is something that I’ll get used to with more games. I don’t know how to read the people that jumped on. I can say I don’t think it was bad from the first vote or maybe the second but I don’t know what jumping on is usually indicative, alignment wise. Or how to tell the 3-7 votes apart.
What do you think of Oblivions reaction to the wagon?
I think scum would be trying to hide a bit more and not be putting so many opinions out there, especially if it welcomes a back and forth. To me, it’s reading town at the moment. I’ve never played with it before so I can’t base anything off meta, just these first pages.
User avatar
Naerys
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3242
Joined: November 11, 2019
Pronoun: she
Location: Czech Republic

Post Post #82 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:15 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 81, KayJayQueue wrote: I think scum would be trying to hide a bit more and not be putting so many opinions out there, especially if it welcomes a back and forth.
I agree with this
User avatar
davesaz
davesaz
He
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
davesaz
He
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12556
Joined: August 24, 2014
Pronoun: He
Location: Socially distant

Post Post #83 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:15 am

Post by davesaz »

I interpret meta and mind model to be essentially the same, while acknowledging that Oblivion appears to see a distinction.
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
User avatar
Thomith
Thomith
He/They
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Thomith
He/They
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4749
Joined: January 20, 2011
Pronoun: He/They
Location: UK

Post Post #84 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:15 am

Post by Thomith »

In post 78, Naerys wrote:
In post 57, Oblivion wrote:
In post 53, Thomith wrote:
In post 46, Oblivion wrote:
In post 43, Gypyx wrote:
In post 41, Thomith wrote: UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao
i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith
Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?
In post 9, Gypyx wrote: VOTE: Snow
In post 13, Titus wrote:
VLA until Monday like in signups


VOTE: Snow
In post 32, PenguinPower wrote: VOTE: snow
These ones, it thinks.
i dont agree with this
Why not?
thomith could be a court jester

I have a Large Normal in sign ups! (12/17)
User avatar
davesaz
davesaz
He
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
davesaz
He
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12556
Joined: August 24, 2014
Pronoun: He
Location: Socially distant

Post Post #85 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:16 am

Post by davesaz »

Naerys, what are you thinking about Gypyx starting it?
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8204
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #86 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:16 am

Post by Gypyx »

In post 75, Oblivion wrote:
In post 67, Gypyx wrote: obliving sure says a lot of words but i'm not sure if it makes it town yet

i'm kinda curious about how Penguin following usual penguin meta makes him more likely town when like, sheeping on a page 1 wagon is not the hardest thing in the world
It isn't meta, but rather a mental model. It attempts to make models of player behaviour by playing with and understanding how they will react situationally. It seeks to understand, then apply these lessons by asking itself to think within that mental model, and whether the response makes sense or if there is an outside influence that is affecting that response, then seeking motivation from being in that Model.

Having played precisely one game with Penguin, as it being scum, it got to see much of how Penguin approaches a game. It thinks that the teasing, off the cuff but effective manner in which Penguin approached his vote fits within its model of him and so it sees him most strongly as town from that.

Here is a question in return for you. If indeed the creation and reaction to these wagons are indicative of finding scum and town and sorting alignments, why is its method less effective than yours? What methods are you using, and from these interactions who is town or scum to you?
I think the human psyche is hard to understeand, and a sample size of one seems prone for mistakes and such

specifically, i'm looking for reactions that are hard to fake / scum failing to fail a reaction, willow in my opinions fits into this category as he made a sheep onto the wagon while also showing uneasiness around it, a pretty contradictory mindset, and one telling he's afraid of acting "wrong" (this is based on the shrug emoji for instance)
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate

bottom text
User avatar
Oblivion
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Oblivion
It/Its
Goon
Goon
Posts: 533
Joined: February 21, 2024
Pronoun: It/Its

Post Post #87 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:17 am

Post by Oblivion »

In post 83, davesaz wrote: I interpret meta and mind model to be essentially the same, while acknowledging that Oblivion appears to see a distinction.
It views them differently, simply because Meta appears to it to be reflective and based upon examining "a similar situation previously occured, this was the response, why did it change here" and Mind Model is forward looking and based upon an attempted understanding of the manner in which a player solves problems to begin with. More along the lines of "this player is presented with this novel problem, how would they approach and attempt to solve it?" It acknowledges there may be overlap, but it doesn't rely on looking at past games to accomplish this goal. It can and does make models from a player from simply within a single game.
This is the law, written in the stars and seeds: in the end, all things must fail. They are old as the stars.
But not older.

And you, who have your human heart again, know all their secrets still.
This is the truth you will use to break them, to rend chains apart and set their prisoners free:
no one else has ever loved this way before.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8204
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #88 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:18 am

Post by Gypyx »

i'm also curious where Naerys goes from here
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate

bottom text
User avatar
Naerys
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3242
Joined: November 11, 2019
Pronoun: she
Location: Czech Republic

Post Post #89 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:19 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 85, davesaz wrote: Naerys, what are you thinking about Gypyx starting it?
well, the vote itself felt like RVS, but her later reactions like " i am disappointed in you" etc felt like attempt to manipulate
could be scummy tbh
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8204
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #90 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:21 am

Post by Gypyx »

for the record i'm always acting manipulative as town, this is nothing new
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate

bottom text
User avatar
Thomith
Thomith
He/They
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Thomith
He/They
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4749
Joined: January 20, 2011
Pronoun: He/They
Location: UK

Post Post #91 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:22 am

Post by Thomith »

In post 89, Naerys wrote:
In post 85, davesaz wrote: Naerys, what are you thinking about Gypyx starting it?
well, the vote itself felt like RVS, but her later reactions like " i am disappointed in you" etc felt like attempt to manipulate
could be scummy tbh
I feel like she was just memeing.
Her posting after the fact seem to be genuinely trying to sort people, and do feel like her point about people finding it harder to fake reactions early is also kind of valid.
thomith could be a court jester

I have a Large Normal in sign ups! (12/17)
User avatar
Naerys
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3242
Joined: November 11, 2019
Pronoun: she
Location: Czech Republic

Post Post #92 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:23 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 84, Thomith wrote:
In post 78, Naerys wrote:
In post 57, Oblivion wrote:
In post 53, Thomith wrote:
In post 46, Oblivion wrote:
In post 43, Gypyx wrote:
In post 41, Thomith wrote: UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao
i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith
Not as disappointed as it is in all of you. Do you truly think this is an acceptable method to find scum? There are members here whose votes it understands. For whom it believes there is merit and a town mental model for approaching a wagon in this manner. It does not make it less disappointed in the very existence of this wagon.

Whose votes do you think are more likely to be town motivated?
In post 9, Gypyx wrote: VOTE: Snow
In post 13, Titus wrote:
VLA until Monday like in signups


VOTE: Snow
In post 32, PenguinPower wrote: VOTE: snow
These ones, it thinks.
i dont agree with this
Why not?
imo scum likes to hide in a safe spots
"head - belly-tail" are places where scum can often be found (translation: beginning-middle-end of the wagon)
User avatar
Naerys
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Naerys
she
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3242
Joined: November 11, 2019
Pronoun: she
Location: Czech Republic

Post Post #93 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:24 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 90, Gypyx wrote: for the record i'm always acting manipulative as town, this is nothing new
Meta can be misleading, so i am not going to put my fait on this, sorry.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8204
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #94 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:25 am

Post by Gypyx »

my main early wagon theory is that scum feels pretty major social pressure to fit in, and as such will try to get in by any means
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate

bottom text
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8204
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #95 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:25 am

Post by Gypyx »

In post 93, Naerys wrote:
In post 90, Gypyx wrote: for the record i'm always acting manipulative as town, this is nothing new
Meta can be misleading, so i am not going to put my fait on this, sorry.
i'm not telling you to townread me for it, just saying this is ususal Gypyx behaviour
White Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate

bottom text
User avatar
geraintm
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5813
Joined: March 9, 2006
Location: Wales

Post Post #96 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:34 am

Post by geraintm »

In post 41, Thomith wrote: UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao
Boo!
User avatar
geraintm
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
geraintm
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5813
Joined: March 9, 2006
Location: Wales

Post Post #97 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:37 am

Post by geraintm »

In post 61, Gypyx wrote:
In post 47, Thomith wrote:
In post 43, Gypyx wrote:
In post 41, Thomith wrote: UNVOTE:

Let's not actually do this lmao
i'm very much dissapointed in you Thomith
Trust me I'm disappointed in myself too lol.

Of course it would have been funny if this had actually gone through, but I got cold feet :lol:

With that being said, I do want to get some information out of Day 1 that a quick lim probably doesn't get us.

Naerys is probably right that there is a decent chance that the scum might have been hiding on the wagon as it was growing
I mean, a quick day 1 also gives our PRs extremely potent cover, but i totally get where you're coming from
This ^^^
User avatar
Hu Tao
Hu Tao
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Hu Tao
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7987
Joined: December 24, 2022
Pronoun: she/her

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:54 am

Post by Hu Tao »

In post 60, KayJayQueue wrote:
In post 55, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 16, Hu Tao wrote: I claim VT
Serious claim BTW
Gunslinger it is!
LMAO :lol:
User avatar
Hu Tao
Hu Tao
she/her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Hu Tao
she/her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7987
Joined: December 24, 2022
Pronoun: she/her

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:55 am

Post by Hu Tao »

My vibes say gypyx is towny. But not 100% on that read yet

Return to “New York [Normal Games]”