Shell Game (Day 3)

[Dannflor]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

i don't expect this point to be particularly salient to anyone but it is true

[morph the cat]

Also, you're absolutely wrong about neuterhalf not believing what he says.

Ask him to unpack stuff. He doesn't bite.

much.

[Lukewarm]

Luke do you want to talk about your concerns with us?

I went to bed, did a last check of the thread my phone and saw this, and you have pulled me back to my laptop

But yeah, I can type out my thoughts.

[Dannflor]

I found town-you in that game despite scumreading the absolute hell out of the player you replaced.

yeah and you did that by diving my meta and finding a tell by yourself that you were very confident in, not asking me if i can point you to another game where i was demotivated by mech

I do remember that I scum read your posting as performative previously and it's possible I'm doing that again

I don't actually want to kill you today anyway, in some part because I don't really have the tools to do that in this game, but your interactions with fireisredsir made me mad so now I'm coming out with this. it was probably a mistake but whatever

[morph the cat]

I found town-you in that game despite scumreading the absolute hell out of the player you replaced.

yeah and you did that by diving my meta and finding a tell by yourself that you were very confident in, not asking me if i can point you to another game where i was demotivated by mech

I do remember that I scum read your posting as performative previously and it's possible I'm doing that again

I don't actually want to kill you today anyway, in some part because I don't really have the tools to do that in this game, but your interactions with fireisredsir made me mad so now I'm coming out with this. it was probably a mistake but whatever

I'm recovering from COVID. Again. And my brain is not at its finest atm.

I'm not going to search for a game in a haystack, though I'd definitely take a look at games people point me to.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think both Sunflower and Klick's posts/cases on each other were towny and

I can case that more specifically tomorrow

, but it reminded me of a TvT in a lot of ways because of the specific ways they both basically took personally how the other was going about reading the other. I think sunflower would have reached for other resources if they wanted to "1v1" klick

I'd be interested in hearing this. Reading it earlier, I felt like Sunflower might've started with the conclusion that Klick was scum, because I didn't think he was thinking about what scum!Klick's motive would be.

I do think point 3 has merit

Did you have any thoughts about his vote on me? I don't feel heavily sussed or sussed at all this game, so leaving a vote on me with an insipid explanation seems unlikely to go anywhere

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

isnt this just too scummy to be scum written in a fancier way

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

i don't expect this point to be particularly salient to anyone but it is true

If you could quote them in a spoiler? It's easier to digest than relatively abstract statements

[Dannflor]

Did you have any thoughts about his vote on me? I don't feel heavily sussed or sussed at all this game, so leaving a vote on me with an insipid explanation seems unlikely to go anywhere

I don't mind his vote on you

I think people are probably clearing you too easily due to having an idea that you are a polarized player

I think scum are more likely to buy into that narrative and not push perceived polarized players who are widely agreed to be town

[Dannflor]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

[Dannflor]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

isnt this just too scummy to be scum written in a fancier way

yeah I suppose

it also has to do with me having played with fire a lot and feeling like I have a decent handle on what he's self conscious about as scum

[Dunnstral]

Did you have any thoughts about his vote on me? I don't feel heavily sussed or sussed at all this game, so leaving a vote on me with an insipid explanation seems unlikely to go anywhere

I don't mind his vote on you

I think people are probably clearing you too easily due to having an idea that you are a polarized player

I think scum are more likely to buy into that narrative and not push perceived polarized players who are widely agreed to be town

Is CSF really widely agreed to be town though?

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

I haven't played with you in over a year, and before that, I'd played 2 games with you. Are you expecting me to somehow have kept tabs on how your game has changed?

Anyway. you probably do deserve a meta refresh.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it also has to do with me having played with fire a lot and feeling like I have a decent handle on what he's self conscious about as scum

you're going to have to spell out the exact read if that's the line you're taking

[morph the cat]

Had to check the activity log to make sure I hadn't missed an experience post :/

[morph the cat]

I'm running out of steam. Luke, I'm not sure if you're working on a post still or not. I'll hang in for 20-30 more minutes maybe more if I can keep my eyes open.

[Lukewarm]

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

]

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"

[Lukewarm]

I'm running out of steam. Luke, I'm not sure if you're working on a post still or not. I'll hang in for 20-30 more minutes maybe more if I can keep my eyes open.

Sorry, its a big post!

[Lukewarm]

As a side point, once I started having flickers of the possibility of morph scum, it has mildly shifted my stance on marci.

If morph ends up flipping town at any point this game, I am ready to treat her as an innocent child.

but if morph does turn out to be scum, scum!marci should be back on the table.

Morph is the only slot in the entire game that I think would both take on the task of coaching her through all of the hood/dethy stuff, and would succeed at it. I have actually seen Cabd do that exact thing for Marci before.

[morph the cat]

Just skimming, I see you may have confused some cabd posts for mine. 2140 wasn't me.

I'll go through the whole thing and respond before I call it a night.

[Lukewarm]

Just skimming, I see you may have confused some cabd posts for mine. 2140 wasn't me.

I'll go through the whole thing and respond before I call it a night.

Yeah, I knew that one was cabd.

The post started with my pings on you, and ended with my pings on cabd. I guess I did not make that clear.

[experience]

hey y'all!

[Lukewarm]

hey y'all!

Hello!

But also, goodnight!

[experience]

UNVOTE: