Mini 663 - Mind Screw Mafia II - Over

[Tarhalindur]

MOd Notes. Is they coming?

And sorry Wall-E. But I WAS pro town.

My apologies for the delay - I should have them up tomorrow.

[forbiddanlight]

you only had 100 characters?

why/how did you suicide?

I had 100 words per post and 10 posts per day. And I suicided because that's how Natirasha kills. I didn't REALLY suicide, I was killed by Nat.

[Battousai]

ya, at the end of the last day, my death message was that I suicided.

About the setup, I think that the SK was overpowered based on the swing of the game. At any time, their could be a mass claim or someone being pressured to claim. If they don't get lynched, the SK could kill them after the lynch. But on the opposite side of the swing, the SK role itself, is usually underpowered and in with his way of killing in this game could harm his chances of winning.

The ghost aspect also added a little twist to the game. If only tar was forced to say lynch a townie instead of wall-e, we could have killed tar.

[forbiddanlight]

That'd make it a horrid role if I was FORCED to lynch a townie. Honestly, the way it was set up was perfect. I either dig my own grave or lead the town to victory (I kinda mixed them both).

However, a Tar lynch would have been good, thinking on it. A forbiddanlight lynch would have sucked for me.

[Tarhalindur]

Mod Notes

In my opinion, this game was decided by horrible threat prioritizing on the part of both the town and the Mafia - Natirasha would have been easy to deal with early on and IMO should have been lynched or vigged the second he claimed the standard neutral survivor win condition, but instead he was allowed to grow into a serious threat and won the game because of it.

I will also note that, in many ways, the town and Mafia lost this game more than the SK won it. Forbiddanlight wound up finishing off the town's chances, but the town had already made a HUGE screwup by lynching its double voter. Seriously, lynching the double voter just because he's a double voter? As for the Mafia... they all-but-utterly failed to capitalize on the immense potential in their roles and failed to deal with the SK when it should have been clear to them immediately after D1 that Nat was actually the SK.

Notes on general roles: Most of the roles survived the editing process pretty much intact (the big exceptions being Tarhalindur and Lain, both of which were complicated roles and needed to be checked for balance).

Specific role comments:

Asuka Langley Soryuu

- Both of my previous games had a town-aligned Jack of All Trades, so I decided to give the Mafia a JoaT as a metagame role (with appropriate abilities). The Quantum Mirror deserves special mention, as it is an ability that I've had in my list of "cool abilities that I want to use someday" for some time. Naturally, this ability was never used, even on the day when it would probably have won the game for the Mafia (Batt reflects himself or reflects Nat/kills Mod and, IMO, would have had a very good chance of convincing MafiaSSK to lynch Natirasha for the scum win).

Nuke was given to the Mafia in order to give them access to a kill method that had been unambiguously town in all previous Tar games. They didn't use it, either.

Grant Godfather Immunity is yet another ability I've been wanting to test out for some time.

Jack O'Neill

and

Daniel Jackson

- There's really no point to making both members of a Masonry members of the same Mafia, is there? That would just make them Mafia Goons, right? Well... that's what I wanted you to think, because that allows one Mafioso to effectively clear himself when his fellow Mason dies...

... so Cyberbob and Wall-E instead decide to both use Mafia Falseclaim and deny that they were Masons, wasting all of the potential in their roles (including a big fat wasted opportunity for Cyberbob to clear himself after Wall-E died) in the process. Sigh. (This after I didn't give them safeclaims - hint for future Mafiosos in Tar games - if I don't give you a safeclaim, that's a big hint that you're probably better off claiming your real role.)

Tarhalindur

- This is the first example you have seen of what I like to call a punisher role: instead of outlawing something that I consider problematic (like, say, claiming exact ability names, which runs dangerously close to using mod PM wording for gain [which is a Rule 4 violation]), instead I add a third party role that's slightly underpowered normally but becomes massively overpowered if players engage in the problematic ability. If players had not told Natirasha their ability names, he would have been an SK who can only kill every other day with the ability to slowly gain NK immunities, and would probably have lost the game (either to the Mafia or to the town). Instead, he got to power up Day 3 and won the game.

This role was, in retrospect, slightly overpowered (specifically, the Inversion + Time Stop combo, which was added in fairly late to further the "FoS'es are relevant" subtheme, should have been removed after all), but the general principle still seems balanced to me.

Kaname Chidori

- One of this game's subthemes was roles for which FoS'es were relevant. The "double voter without a FoS" concept was one of the earliest roles added to the setup. Anyone who has watched Full Metal Panic!: Fumoffu should understand why Kaname is so fitting for the flavor on the role.

First Hybrid

- I made one design mistake here: I should have told the player what the Untrusted ability did (it would have made the FoS subtheme more obvious and probably created tension early). Other than that, I like the way this role turned out.

The reasons why certain players were unrevivable: Lain Iwakura wasn't actually dead when in the graveyard, and the Cheshire Cat had no actual body and thus couldn't be revived (the fact that the Cheshire Cat was the game's main protective role also factored in).

Kerrigan

- I like oddball investigative roles. Kerrigan as Lie Detector seemed like a great idea. (Especially since the protective roles here were weak, ensuring that Kerrigan was screwed if she claimed early.)

Cheshire Cat

- This role (a modified Jailkeeper) was inspired by a role I saw claimed early on in Fiasco Corporation on MTGS. Sadly, it died Day 1 and a lot of the Cheshire Cat's potential for havoc was lost (but not all - see the Day 1 Mafia kill).

Yuki Nagato

- The token "I'm begging to be lynched Day 1" role for Mind Screw II (Shinji had that honor in the first game), except this time it actually got lynched. Yuki was actually a Miller in all but name (IMO, anyone who's seen Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu but not read the light novel translations would have been hard pressed to understand how Yuki of all characters could be vanilla. I won't elaborate as to how this works - there be spoilers in them thar waters!)

Sigmund Freud

- Well, how could I resist adding Freud into one of my games? The "chasing after a ghost" concept to the role was the primary reason I added it to the setup (though the potential to backfire due to Godfather Immunity was a later addition.

Lain Iwakura

- This role was probably my favorite role in the setup. Oddly enough, it wasn't directly inspired by Guardian's modkill reviver - the primary influence was from an MTGS game (yes, I do lurk there quite a bit...): the Invisible Townie in Sin City Mafia. Unfortunately, it would be difficult to use the Invisible Townie role in a Mini game here due to the queue structure, so I modified the role into something similar to the aforementioned modkill reviver to get it to work. This role was also, to a lesser extent, influenced by Trevor West in Blood Moon Mafia (specifically the talking through the mod aspect of the role).

This role shows the influence of my interest in Magic the Gathering in general (though I've taken a hiatus from playing) and odd rules and card interactions in particular.

My big mistake here was failing to implement a safeguard to prevent the kind of "I am the voice of Mod" shenanigans that forbiddanlight used Day 2. (I didn't preven forbiddanlight from using said shenanigans because it wasn't her fault that I didn't see the possibility of this role using the Voice of Mod to scare the pants off of everyone else.)

Note: It's going to take a bit of time to get the references up - hopefully I'll have them done later tonight.

[DrippingGoofball]

There are people in this game that wanted me dead... really, really dead...

[Battousai]

DGB, I knew instantly that you were a lie detector, that is why I tried to kill you. If only your kill wasn't delayed, it would have helped us a lot (wasted a couple kills).

[forbiddanlight]

I kinda screwed us with malthy because A, we needed a lynch, and B, Nat was weaving good untruths and for some reason I believed him. And yes, I loved the Lain role. It basically circumvented one of the main problems I have playing town (as in I always get suspected easily), the only problem is I failed to use my scum hunting more effectively. Even Wall-E, though I suspected him D1 and was tempted to vig him, was inspired by Nat.

Oh, here's my reference list before I got bored doing it. I have a lot of unknowns:

Vote Count 0: Hitchhiker's Guide/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 1: Serial Experiments Lain "Duvet"/Mod Hint
Mod Scene 1: Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Vote Count 2: Enders game?/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 3: ?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 4: ?/?
Vote Count 5: Star Trek TNG/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 6: Serial Experiments Lain?/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 7: Full Metal Panic Fummoffu?/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 8: TV Tropes/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 9: Hitchhiker's Guide? (Mostly Harmless)/Mod Hint?
Vote Count 10: 2001 A Space Odyssey/ 2001 A Space Odyssey
Vote Count 11: FMA?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 12: ?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 13: Evangelion?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 14: ?/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 15: ?/ ?
Vote Count 16: ?/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 17: Quantum Mechanics/ LoZ:OoT
Vote Count 18: ?/?
Vote Count 19: MafiaScumWiki/Mod Hint
Vote Count 20: Matrix/ Mod Hint
Vote Count 21: ?/Mod Hint?
Vote Count 22: Blues Brothers?/ Mod joke
Vote Count 23: Bad Dudes/ ?
Vote Count 24: Haruhi Suzumiya?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 25: ?/Mod Hint
Vote Count 26: Portal/ Mod Hint?
Vote Count 27: ?/?
Vote Count 28: Sigmund Frued/ Mod Hint
Mod Scene: Mod Hints
Beginning of Day 2: ?/Alice In Wonderland


I can't wait to see what they really are.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh, and I'd like to mention that Duvet being quoted on pirate day in pirate speak is the most terrifying sound I have ever emulated, just to hear it.

[Natirasha]

Yah, seriously, I pretty much had a second mafioso for most of the game.

[forbiddanlight]

Yah, seriously, I pretty much had a second mafioso for most of the game.

Well, I learned from this. KILL ALL THIRD PARTIES THAT SURVIVE TO ENDGAME!

FOREVER

And also don't trust them. They only help whichever side the wind is blowing for. I part chalk up my idiocy to not having much experience with SKs/Survivors/whatever. But part of it was essentially turning off my brain when I felt I had someone to trust. After all, who would POSSIBLY lie about being a survivor *rolls eyes*

Should have stuck with DGB and DoS. But they didn't trust me :S.

[Cyberbob]

... so Cyberbob and Wall-E instead decide to both use Mafia Falseclaim and deny that they were Masons, wasting all of the potential in their roles (including a big fat wasted opportunity for Cyberbob to clear himself after Wall-E died) in the process. Sigh. (This after I didn't give them safeclaims - hint for future Mafiosos in Tar games - if I don't give you a safeclaim, that's a big hint that you're probably better off claiming your real role.)

Wall-E and I talked about whether or not I should have flavour-claimed Stargate in the massclaim. We decided against it in case either one of us died, in which case the other would have had a rather tough time convincing the town that they were not aware of the other one's alignment.

[Tarhalindur]

Vote Count References:

There were no specific references in the end of day mod scenes, but all of them were written in a style reminiscent of certain monologues in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Opening Flavor: Mission Impossible (the agent referenced was, in fact, Tarhalindur, the SK)

The Zeroth Vote Count, italics: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
The Zeroth Vote Count, vote count name: The Simpsons (and Stargate SG-1*)

The First Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain - opening theme ("Duvet")
The First Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment (literally WTF)

The Second Vote Count, italics: The Prisoner
The Second Vote Count, vote count name: TV Tropes Wiki

The Third Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain
The Third Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint (duh!)

The Fourth Vote Count, italics: Babylon 5
The Fourth Vote Count, vote count name: Serial Experiments Lain

The Fifth Vote Count, italics: Star Trek: The Next Generation
The Fifth Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment

The Sixth Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain
The Sixth Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint

The Seventh Vote Count, italics: Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu
The Seventh Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment

The Eighth Vote Count, italics: TV Tropes Wiki AND Full Metal Panic! AND mod hint
The Eighth Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint

The Ninth Vote Count, italics: Stargate SG-1 ("Window of Opportunity")
The Ninth Vote Count, vote count name: Eureka AND mod comment

The Tenth Vote Count, italics: 2001: A Space Odyssey
The Tenth Vote Count, vote count name: Mind Screw Mafia callback AND quantum mechanics

The Eleventh Vote Count, italics: Ghost in the Shell
The Eleventh Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint AND "one man, one FoS"

The Twelfth Vote Count, italics: Tarhalindur (who was inside the game again)
The Twelfth Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint AND Romeo and Juliet

The Thirteenth Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain
The Thirteenth Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint

The Fourteenth Vote Count, italics: HP Lovecraft ("The Call of Cthulhu")
The Fourteenth Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint

The Fifteenth Vote Count, italics: Neon Genesis Evangelion
The Fifteenth Vote Count, vote count name: The Giver AND TV Tropes Wiki

The Sixteenth Vote Count, italics: Dr. Strangelove
The Sixteenth Vote Count, vote count name: Yogi Berra (IIRC)

The Seventeenth Vote Count, italics: quantum mechanics
The Seventeenth Vote Count, vote count name: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (STFU Navi)

The Eighteenth Vote Count, italics: Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu (opening theme)
The Eighteenth Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint (Deep South mechanic)

The Nineteenth Vote Count, italics: MafiaScum Wiki AND big fat mod hint
The Nineteenth Vote Count, vote count name: TV Tropes Wiki AND mod comment

The Twentieth Vote Count, italics: The Matrix
The Twentieth Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment

The Twenty-First Vote Count, italics: Battlestar Galactica (hybrid utterance)
The Twenty-First Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment

The Twenty-Second Vote Count, italics: The Blues Brothers
The Twenty-Second Vote Count, vote count name: Title Fairy mod comment

The Twenty-Third Vote Count, italics: Bad Dudes
The Twenty-Third Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment (German for "make haste")

The Twenty-Fourth Vote Count, italics: The Dissociation of Haruhi Suzumiya (novel 9)
The Twenty-Fourth Vote Count, vote count name: Legend of Zelda

The Twenty-Fifth Vote Count, italics: Tarhalindur saying (stolen from Bleach)
The Twenty-Fifth Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint

The Twenty-Sixth Vote Count, italics: Portal
The Twenty-Sixth Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint AND US elections

The Twenty-Seventh Vote Count, italics: Bill and Ted's Most Excellent Adventure
The Twenty-Seventh Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint

The Twenty-Eighth Vote Count, italics: Sigmund Freud
The Twenty-Eighth Vote Count, vote count name: indicated end of Day 1

The Twenty-Ninth Vote Count, italics: Communist propaganda! AND mod hint
The Twenty-Ninth Vote Count, vote count name: the card game Mao

The Thirtieth Vote Count, italics: Stargate SG-1
The Thirtieth Vote Count, vote count name: Dr. Strangelove

The Thirty-First Vote Count, italics: StarCraft AND Tarhalindur saying
The Thirty-First Vote Count, vote count name: Communist China

The Thirty-Second Vote Count, italics: Alice in Wonderland
The Thirty-Second Vote Count, vote count name: Serial Experiments Lain

The Thirty-Third Vote Count, italics: Stargate SG-1 ("Window of Opportunity")
The Thirty-Third Vote Count, vote count name: mod comment

Public Execution Mod Scene: the card game Mao

The Thirty-Fourth Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain
The Thirty-Fourth Vote Count, vote count name: Mussolini-style fascism

The Thirty-Fifth Vote Count, italics: Battlestar Galactica (hybrid utterance)
The Thirty-Fifth Vote Count, vote count name: Monty Python's Flying Circus

The Thirty-Sixth Vote Count, italics: Katamari Damacy
The Thirty-Sixth Vote Count, vote count name: The Legend of Zelda AND Heroes

The Thirty-Seventh Vote Count, italics: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Thirty-Seventh Vote Count, vote count name: Tarhalindur saying

The Thirty-Eighth Vote Count, italics: Through The Looking Glass
The Thirty-Eighth Vote Count, vote count name: obligatory Stargate SG-1 reference

The Thirty-Ninth Vote Count, italics: Guardian's iPick AND mod hint
The Thirty-Ninth Vote Count, vote count name: real life...

The Fortieth Vote Count, italics: Tarhalindur saying
The Fortieth Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint

The Forty-First Vote Count, italics: Doctor Who
The Forty-First Vote Count, vote count name: The Legend of Zelda AND mod hint

The Forty-Second Vote Count, italics: StarCraft
The Forty-Second Vote Count, vote count name: obligatory Hitchhiker's reference

The Forty-Third Vote Count, italics: Magic the Gathering
The Forty-Third Vote Count, vote count name: big fat mod hint

The Forty-Fourth Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain
The Forty-Fourth Vote Count, vote count name: StarCraft

The Forty-Fifth Vote Count, italics: Neon Genesis Evangelion
The Forty-Fifth Vote Count, vote count name: indicated end of Day 2

The Forty-Sixth Vote Count, italics: International Talk Like a Pirate Day!
The Forty-Sixth Vote Count, vote count name: pirates

The Forty-Seventh Vote Count, italics: pirates
The Forty-Seventh Vote Count, vote count name: pirates

The Forty-Eighth Vote Count, italics: pirates
The Forty-Eighth Vote Count, vote count name: Pirates of the Caribbean: the Curse of the Black Pearl

All This Has Happened Before, And Will Happen Again: Battlestar Galactica (hybrid utterance x2)

The Forth-Ninth Vote Count, italics: pirates
The Forty-Ninth Vote Count, vote count name: mod hint AND Adam Smith

The Fiftieth Vote Count, italics: Serial Experiments Lain - opening theme "Duvet" in Pirate
The Fiftieth Vote Count, vote count name: Serial Experiments Lain

The Fifty-First Vote Count, italics: Pirates of the Caribbean: the Curse of the Black Pearl
The Fifty-First Vote Count, vote count name: sailing in general... AND pirates

The Fifty-Second Vote Count, italics: pirates
The Fifty-Second Vote Count, vote count name: indicated end of Day 3

The Fifty-Third Vote Count, italics: The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Fifty-Third Vote Count, vote count name: The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya

The Fifty-Fourth Vote Count, italics: The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Fifty-Fourth Vote Count, vote count name: TV Tropes Wiki AND Whack a Mole

The Lone Island Syndrome Mod Scene: same as end of day scenes

The Fifty-Fifth Vote Count, italics: Stargate SG-1 ("Window of Opportunity")
The Fifty-Fifth Vote Count, vote count name: stock phrase

The Fifty-Sixth Vote Count, italics: references opening flavor
The Fifty-Sixth Vote Count, vote count name: indicated end of Mind Screw Mafia II

Some other useful notes: Why I used the ability I did each day:

Proletariat Unity: It was early in the game and I wanted to test out the effect. (I'm not sure if I will include this ability in the future - it seemed to slow things down.)
International Talk Like a Pirate Day: Well, I did use the ability in the vicinity of September 19...
Whack A Mole: a pity move on behalf of MafiaSSK.

[Wall-E]

The Seventeenth Vote Count, vote count name: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (STFU Navi)

Navi: LISTEN!

Link: *baseball bat to the head*

Navi: ~gurgle~

[Tarhalindur]

Other useful notes: By popular request, I will run Mind Screw 3 after Babylon 5 Mafia is done. (I've had the core setup built for a while now, I just haven't added flavor and asked for reviewers/backup mods.)

Be warned, however:
1) It's a very large setup - about 30 players.
2) It is a ridiculously complex setup even by Tar standards. There are no vanillas, and Lain-level complexity is common.

I will gladly accept pre-/ins.

[MafiaSSK]

You think you'll have enough active players for a 30 player game?

[Wall-E]

Good game, Natirasha.

Good game, Tarhalindur.

Sorry again about the rule breaking, I wouldn't have done it if I'd known we can get banned from future games! Otherwise I'd be pre-inning right now!

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to ask what the dice rolls at the beginning of each day were?

[Tarhalindur]

I'd like to ask what the dice rolls at the beginning of each day were?

<9> Each game day will begin with a nonnegotiable deadline of 13+1d15 days in place unless stated otherwise. (At the beginning of each day, I will roll a d15, add 13 to the result, and set the deadline accordingly.)

Simple enough.

[iamausername]

Seriously, lynching the double voter just because he's a double voter?

I don't know about anyone else, but I was lynching him because of a perceived connection with Wall-E. Anything I mentioned about his double vote in my case was more an explanation of why I was willing to lynch him DESPITE the double vote, not a reason why his double vote made him a worthy lynch.

I make no excuses for the rest of the town's screwups. I'm going to be a LOT more wary of survivor claims in future.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to ask what the dice rolls at the beginning of each day were?

<9> Each game day will begin with a nonnegotiable deadline of 13+1d15 days in place unless stated otherwise. (At the beginning of each day, I will roll a d15, add 13 to the result, and set the deadline accordingly.)

Simple enough.

Yet another example of me failing to read the rules. That's pretty cool.

[MeMe]

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