Mini 684: Quacks and Masons Mafia- Game Over

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think playing as vanilla is a good plan.

Although the quacks have the drawback of killing townies, they can also find scum. This makes their role almost equivalent to a vig. The only difference is the scum they target successfully still have to be lynched. I guess this requires claiming, so the role is like a combiantion vig/seer. This is a power role and not a town drawback.

Even though there are more docs than quacks, the odds of a successful protection are relatively low since the scum only target one person so I think it's best for everyone with the doc role to assume they are a quack until they learn otherwise.

Fwiw, I agree with Sotty7 about trying to break the set up. For one thing, it takes the fun out of a really interesting game setup. Also, I don't see a simple plan that works to the towns advantage and I think trying to break it might work into the scums' hands.

[pacman281292]

hmm... I have V/la during the whole week (as noted on other games I'm playing). Sorry.

[raider8169]

I don't think playing as vanilla is a good plan.

Although the quacks have the drawback of killing townies, they can also find scum. This makes their role almost equivalent to a vig. The only difference is the scum they target successfully still have to be lynched. I guess this requires claiming, so the role is like a combiantion vig/seer. This is a power role and not a town drawback.

The quacks/doctors will not be able to trustly find scum. For example

Doc A protects town A
Doc B (quack) protects town A

Town A dies both think they are quacks.

Doc B protects scum

Doc B now thinks he is a real doctor and protects the most protown player. Which then dies.

I think the doctors should not protect anyone until the quacks are out of the picture. The masons should not claim as scum will go after them if this is the plan. Thoughts?

[Light-kun]

It is safe to conclude that our options have been reduced to either letting the docs/quacks act as a town until one/both quacks die
OR
Let the docs/quacks act on their own accord.

I think that former move is better for the time being, and if we were to, say, "Vote" on which action to take, then that is my vote.

Nothing else to note yet.

[roflcopter]

vote: clammy

your plan immediately outs the masons to the scum. nice try.

what we should do is hypo claim doc targets at the start of each day, as in 'if i am a doc i protected light kun' that way masons don't get outed.

[raider8169]

vote: clammy

your plan immediately outs the masons to the scum. nice try.

what we should do is hypo claim doc targets at the start of each day, as in 'if i am a doc i protected light kun' that way masons don't get outed.

I was thinking about this as it was done in another game and had limited results. I dont think it will work cause in the process more people will be killed. The more town we have the better our chances are.

So far I like the idea that the doctors sit tight until both quacks are dead. Main goal of course will be taking out the scum.

[Dattebayo]

So far I like the idea that the doctors sit tight until both quacks are dead. Main goal of course will be taking out the scum.

I agree with this.

Netlava's plan involves 3 potential townie deaths in one night which is really risky.

[clammy]

roflcopter, the problem with your plan is that you're asking the masons to become a liability by lying and confusing the docs, with the masons known D2 the town has three figures it knows it can trust, which has more benefits than meet the eye at first glance.

[springlullaby]

As i've already said i have plans for the docs/quacks that i'm not going into, and the scum can be adequately distracted killing off our confirmed masons while we figure out their lies.

If you have a plan, it should be unbreakable - meaning one which could effectively break the game without relying on secrecy of any sort, or relying on outsmarting the scums (because they could very well outsmart you).

I'd like you to state what was your plan for night.

Also, with doc claim day 1, it effectively immediately out the masons to the scums.

I don't see where you're going with this, so yeah, what was your plan?

[raider8169]

Also, with doc claim day 1, it effectively immediately out the masons to the scums.

I don't see where you're going with this, so yeah, what was your plan?

Adding to this the scum will target the masons and even if the docs protect them there is a chance they will still be killed. Its better that scum have a chance to hit the quacks and that will help town even though a town will die.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Netlava

Trying to reduce the number of days possible is a very bad idea for the town. I totally disapprove.

[clammy]

i'm not asking for an infinite hold lullaby, but aspects of what i have as a plan could be used in reverse if not made in conjunction with the mass-claim so i have no interest in revealing that until it's clear which way we're going with the claim.

Otherwise i'll leave the plan under wraps until D2 and push for the claim again then.

[muffinhead]

Vote Count

Netlava (2)- Dattebayo, Riceballtail
clammy (1)- roflcopter

Not Voting (9)- Pimhel, Sun Tsu, springlullaby,clammy,pacman281292,Netlava,Light-Kun,raider8169,,sotty7

Takes 7 votes to lynch.

[Netlava]

Vote: Riceballtail

Obvscum

Btw, I simmed through my idea and it doesn't work the way I intend to (by the time the quacks are outed, the scum would have won).

Another possibility is that everyone agrees to target the scummiest player each night and if he doesn't die then we lynch. But this is probably more akin to a less effective vig. Perhaps it could loosely keep track of how many quacks are remaining.

[raider8169]

Vote: Riceballtail

Obvscum

Btw, I simmed through my idea and it doesn't work the way I intend to (by the time the quacks are outed, the scum would have won).

Another possibility is that everyone agrees to target the scummiest player each night and if he doesn't die then we lynch. But this is probably more akin to a less effective vig. Perhaps it could loosely keep track of how many quacks are remaining.

2 things wrong with this post. First is the OMGUS vote. Second is that we will know how many quacks are left as their quack role will be revealed when they die. I would rather everyone not protect someone cause that is just going to kill a town. The chance of finding scum is there but I dont see it being worth it.

[roflcopter]

guys, hypodoc works because that way when a quack dies it immediately outs any scum they protected, and it doesn't out the masons in the process.

[raider8169]

guys, hypodoc works because that way when a quack dies it immediately outs any scum they protected, and it doesn't out the masons in the process.

Maybe so but it will be a couple days into this before we can get any results. In the mean time town people will have died and we can quickly be in lylo.

[roflcopter]

would you rather take away four chances to prevent the scum kill?

[raider8169]

would you rather take away four chances to prevent the scum kill?

Because having the 4 chances also add 2 chances for more kills. Even if the doctors do stop the scums kill the quacks trying to do the same would most likely end up killing a townie anyways. Plus that could cause a doctor to think he is a quack because another quack protected the same person or it could cause a quack to think they are a doctor when they tried to protect scum.

Best case there are no kills but all the doctors that took actions would think they are the real doctors.

Worse case we have 3 dead townies tomorrow. Bring us to 8 total people and 3 of which are scum. Not good odds. That would jump us right into lylo. With no information really gained. (Also assumeing we lynch a town) Even if we lynch scum 6 town and 2 scum doesnt leave much room for error.

By having them do nothing we will have 1 night kill. The only way we will kill scum is by lynches. The most important thing we can do it make sure we have as many day lynches as possible.

[Sun Tzu]

Yeah, you're right. It's too risky.

Docs shouldn't target anyone.

[Dattebayo]

Vote: Riceballtail

Obvscum

Btw, I simmed through my idea and it doesn't work the way I intend to (by the time the quacks are outed, the scum would have won).

Another possibility is that everyone agrees to target the scummiest player each night and if he doesn't die then we lynch. But this is probably more akin to a less effective vig. Perhaps it could loosely keep track of how many quacks are remaining.

First:
Were you serious with that vote?

Second:
I also thought of the all doctors target one person each night plan but your beat me to the thread. It would be useful if there are two lynchworthy suspects. One could go to the lynch and the other could be "investigated" by means of the doctors/quacks. Even though this could result in 2 deaths in one night, it eliminates the probable lynchee of the next day. If there isn't two deaths then we undoubtedly caught scum. If circumstances allow, I would advocate this plan.

Third:
Riceballtail, could you clarify on why exactly your voting Netlava?

[Riceballtail]

The plan to have everyone protect people is a bad idea for the town, because the more town that die each night, the more likely we lose as town. That is why I am voting him. Suggesting such an idea is vote worthy in this stage.

[clammy]

The plan fails anyway, 4 docs and 2 quacks, 1 mafia kill, whoever the collective target, regardless of alignment or who the mafia target, would be guaranteed to live.

Even if the collective target a doc and reduce the odds that way then it's still 3 kills and 3 saving actions.

The only thing this does for the town is make nights worthless and futile.

The dynamics will change over time, as players die, but at this stage this completely fails a simple logic check.

[Riceballtail]

Quacks ALWAYS kill though, there is no doc protection from that. Don't think that mafia are going to pick the same one as the quacks every time either.

[clammy]

Right, ignor my previous post, when i PM'd the mod prior to the game starting i misread his reply.