Open 103 (Even/Odd C9): Schoolyard Vengence! Over before 712

[farside22]

Geez I'm busy modding, answering other games. This game went from small post to big fast. Give me an hour and I will reply with what I see and think.

[farside22]

Stef post 38: Don't like this vote. Seems like someone buckling under pressure of questions. Also most people vote once during the random stage as a random vote not 3 times
Stef post 40: How did Zazie cut the random stage short? Why is it so important in your view?
Zack post 42: Why tini vision over others who had not communicated much?
fhg post 43: Wins!
stef post 45: So when is the random voting stage over in your opinion?

Mod People who need a prod:
Atlas

FOS: Stef

I get the impression you keep justifing your vote hopping as rvs. I disagree. Your vote on Zazie seems like a knee jerk reaction.

[Battousai]

Vote Count

-TinVision--1 (zachattack)
ZazieR- 1 (Farside22, Stef)
Zachattack-1 (Atlas)
fhqwhgads-1 (-TinVision-)
Stef-1 (ZazieR)

It takes 4 to lynch

Prodding Atlas, his first prod of the day/game

[zachattack]

@ Farside
Post 42 was an explanation of my vote in Post 25. Someone placed a vote on Stef suggesting a bandwagon. I like the idea of small bandwagons to get people talking, but Stef clearly didn't need an incentive to post more, and at the time Tinvision and Atlas had contributed nothing. Atlas is awol in another game we're in together as well so I assumed he wouldn't see my vote anyways, so Tinvision was the better idea.

I wasn't really concerned about Stefs vote hopping, he seemed to be trying to get inactive's to post, similar to my vote on Tinvision. That's why I didn't comment on it. I would like to know what purpose he thinks the random vote phase has and why we should keep it going longer than necessary. I find it weird that he commented on fhq calling his vote OMGUS and asking about his vote hopping in post 43, but ignored tinny posting nearly exactly the same thing.

Zazie's throwing a lot of suspicion on Stef, and although I can see how someone could find stef hopping around unhelpful, I think it's a big leap from Stefs not helping the town during the random vote stage to Stef is scum.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Atlas when/if he shows up, and would like to see more of Fhq.

[fhqwhgads]

More of fhq:

Not going to dedicate much time on the Atlas awol issue. If he's going to be replaced, it means we still have a null-read on him.

While zazier's initial argument wasn't too convincing to me, stef's counter arguments has made him look more suspicious to me.

Stef, here's how you attracted MY attention: Overzealous random voting; defending of this and trying to tell us it served a purpose. I am sorry, arguments on the length of the random voting period doesn't convince me and is, in my opinion, moot at the moment. I would have overlooked it if you claimed you voted atlas because he's lurking or even if you admitted to being a bit silly and carried on with actual gameplay. But you have, by now, made sure we know that vote was an intentional RANDOM vote. Why would you hammer on that so much?

Btw, random stage was over because the vote zachattack made before you was a serious vote.

If I have to explain to you why your vote was OMGUS, you either don't understand the concept, or you are being stubborn. She made a case against you. You voted for her because she made a case against you (fine, you voted because you thought the case weak, but it is OMGUS nonetheless).

You seriously think the argument "you rely on meta too much" is a strong one on page two and a full 8 posts by Zazier? You REALLY are going to argue her case is flimsy and misleading and countering with that?

It was the RVS. In that stage things don't have serious or individual use for that matter.

So explain to me again, why is it beneficial to stay in the RVS for longer?

[Battousai]

"You keep looking for your dolly sweetie, while I go check on the rest of the class at recess."

*sniffle* "Ok..."

After a quick headcount, the teacher noticed lil Atlas was missing.



Atlas has failed to respond to his prod, searching for a replacement now"

[Battousai]

Everyone has to post today to avoid their first prod...

[ZazieR]

@Stef
The reason why Zach is number 2 for me, is because he didn't give his thoughts about our discussion. Everybody else did so. I don't see any reasons to not give your thoughts and that's why I find him suspicious.

The reason why I don't like it as it's different than usual. There aren't many selfvotes during the RVS and there aren't many hops as well. At the start of a game, I take even the littlest thing to start with to get this game rolling. Your actions were different than usual and that's why I start with you.

You said it yourself:

Probably i would have tried to get the users who haven't posted to post

That's why I asked how you would get them to post. Especially when it's likely that a player isn't looking at this game. How would a vote get them to post when they aren't looking?

If I remembered correctly, you started attacking me as I voted you with reasons which you saw as stupid. After a few posts, you started attack FHQ as well. You thought that he wanted to jump with me. Then tell me, why FHQ over -TV-, while -TV- FoSed you for the reasons I voted you?

You said that I didn't call your actions anti-town. You said this in one of your posts. But I've said that your actions were suspicious. That was my point with that question.

What could the RVS have done which could be helfpul for discussion later on?

I reacted like that as there was no other reaction possible. I've learned that everything you do should be helpful towards the town. Clearly, you didn't.

It's easy. There have been two players at L-2. The first one was you, which included your own vote and that of Zach. Later was this due to Zach and FHQ. The second was -TV-. Your vote and that of Zach made this happen.
You said this:

Not to mention that i do not see how it's better for a player on whom we have no tells either way to be at L-2 so early.

Then why did you keep your own vote on yourself for some time?

Normally a vote is put on a lurker to show that player that he has a vote. To make sure that he will post. It's kind of a threat. But what's the use of this when someone is probably not checking this game?

I don't need a reason

since i didn't need

to do anything

good or

bad for me or the town

.

Here's the bolded.

Give me one reason why you didn't want to go out the RVS. The reason why I wanted to know why you changed your votes the whole time, is because i don't see it happen much. May I not be curious? But now, you give a reason to your random votes (the 'post more' reason). Then I start wondering why you just didn't say that.

I'll wait for -TV-'s comments before going into this.

Like I said, I start with something little to get this game started. This wasn't a case when we started. But with your recent comments, it's starting to be one. Regarding your comment about town wouldn't do this, remember Charter? And there are more players like him out there. I don't think they are scum in every game.


Zach, are you now choosing me as a scapegoat?

And if you don't mind, I'd like to post this here as the mod of my other game with Stef had posted this in his game, but I'm not sure if our mod knows about it:

Stef has informed me that he will be without internet access for the next four (4) days.

That way everybody will know that Stef won't post for a while.

[fhqwhgads]

Damn, I was hoping he would answer my question.

[Battousai]

Prods going out to tinvision, farside22, and zackattack. Stef has notified me of being without internet access for 4 days.

[farside22]

Responding to prod. Will post more tomorrow. Thanks.

[Battousai]

"Oh, there you are lil Atlas! Next time you have to go potty, come tell me so I know where you are."

"I'm no longer lil Atlas, I changed my name to lil MafiaSSK."

"Ok, lil MafiaSSK, go on out and have fun ok."

Kids...




MafiaSSK replaces Atlas effective immediately.

[-TinVision-]

Everyone has to post today to avoid their first prod...

Traditionally weekends don't count as days elapsed for prods, as some people aren't available. I mean, I can understand doing it cause the game needed a shot in the arm anyway. Content tomorrow.

That's why I put in the rules to post if you're going to be gone longer than 48hrs.

[fhqwhgads]

It doesn't help that the most talked about subject isn't here to defend himself at the moment.

Tin, any thoughts so far?

[MafiaSSK]

Hi. Any questions?

[Stef]

Since my trip has been canceled i am back. If i have something i need to address i will do so today. This is a standard message posted in all my games..

[farside22]

Updating a few games and doctor appointment today. I will catch up later this afternoon.
Thanks

[zachattack]

Zazie, how am I trying to use you as a scapegoat? I do want to see Stef answer the questions you asked him, especially why he feels the random vote stage should go on longer than necessary, and why when Fhq and TV had the same reaction to your discussion that he targeted Fhg and ignored TV. However, I think your reaching a lot, I don't think his vote hopping was that big of a deal. Once he defended himself you said you didn't have a case on him in the beginning and were starting with something little, but you have one now. It feels like you backed him into a corner, and would have said that no matter how he defended himself. Maybe I'm being naive, but Stef does not seem that scummy to me. I would wait for a bigger slip than 'I think the random vote stage has a purpose' to put so much pressure on a player in a game where it only takes two townies to mislynch, and a townie dead today means we have to lynch right or lose tomorrow.

[farside22]

Hi. Any questions?

Are you scum? Will you actually scum hunt this game? What are your thoughts on the players thus far.

So far I don't agree with ZazieR on Zack. Some people at least are around and talking. The ones who talk less have more to hide.
Looking at ZazieR and Tini in regards to comment.

[-TinVision-]

My thoughts on Stef - ZazieR:

ZazieR really overblew Stef's selfvoting. Selfvoting during the random stage (as at any stage of the game), yes, is antitown. However, I've never seen any evidence it's a scumtell of any reliability. Whenever analyzing someone's actions in mafia, you should be thinking about their motivations. What does a scum gain from selfvoting? All it does is a) bring them closer to lynch and more importantly b) draw unnecessary attention to themselves. Neither of which are things scum want.

Selfvoting is a nulltell in my book. Zazie's aggressiveness in pursuing this didn't make me feel that great about her town-ness.

However, the followup point on randomvoting is good.

Tell me how keep on random voting will bring us out the random voting stage.

I would love to point something out, but that game's still ongoing.

And you may try to explain how changing your vote three times is helpful. You may even point out why you did this.

Trivializing the random voting stage isn't protown. The random voting process has been much-discussed in the forums, and I don't want to go into a lot of discussion of random voting stage strategies, but I don't think that voting early and often is a valid one.

EBWOP What do you think of Fhq right now?

It was at about this point that I began to think ZazieR was looking quite protown.

I was gonna FOS Stef here for his trivializing the random voting stage and general overdefensiveness, but I already did that. Upgraded to a

Vote Stef

[fhqwhgads]

Have to agree with the current argument against stef.

While I don't think the initial random voting and self voting was enough to deem scummy, the ensuing arguments about the use and length of the random voting stage has elevated him as the most scummy at the moment.

Unfortunately, I really don't have a strong opinion on anyone else (except, I do agree that Zazier's initial hard pushing against stef is unusual). I'd like to hear MafiaSSK's opinion on the stef argument (but knowing him, I probably won't get it.)

I'm also keeping my eye on tinvision (and to a lesser degree, zach), as they show some signs of active lurking. But we just came out of a weekend, so it all depends on their posting during the week.

[zachattack]

Hi. Any questions?

I'd like to hear MafiaSSK's opinion on the stef argument (but knowing him, I probably won't get it.)

Is SSK always like this? Surely he has to have some opinion on what's happened so far. He's been on the forum since his any questions post, but hasn't come into this thread. Atlas didn't post any content when he was around either so we have absolutely nothing on him. Since he's been online, I'm assuming he's checking the thread and choosing not to post anything. I don't like this, so I'm going to

unvote
vote MafiaSSK

Hopefully he sees this and feels like responding.

I'm also looking for Stef to answer the questions asked of him, since his trip was canceled. I think a lot of people are holding off waiting for this and that's why there's been so little activity lately.

[Stef]

Ok.. since me not answering seems to be holding the game off lately i'll make time today to post. Sorry. IRL > Mafia sometimes.

[ZazieR]

Like I said, I start with something little to get this game started.

Stef's vote hopping and selfvote caught my attention. That's why I decided to go for Stef. If you hadn't seen it yet, this game was stalling. There were players putting their votes on lurkers trying to let them post. Then it's better to take small things and overblow them than to keep waiting.

Zach, you can see this in many of my games right now. I always pick something little when a game's stalling. It's to get this game started. At least it's better than voting a non-active player.

Zazie's throwing a lot of suspicion on Stef, and although I can see how someone could find stef hopping around unhelpful, I think it's a big leap from Stefs not helping the town during the random vote stage to Stef is scum.

Here's the answer to your question.

The ones who talk less have more to hide. Looking at ZazieR and Tini in regards to comment.

Are you saying that those who are more active have less to hide? Then who of you, Zach, SSK and -TV- have something to hide. Because I can't say that these players have talked much. Also, are you aware that you're the only player who has still left their random vote. Why's that?

SSK always plays like this.

Happy birthday Battousai

[farside22]

Hi. Any questions?

I'd like to hear MafiaSSK's opinion on the stef argument (but knowing him, I probably won't get it.)

Is SSK always like this? Surely he has to have some opinion on what's happened so far. He's been on the forum since his any questions post, but hasn't come into this thread. Atlas didn't post any content when he was around either so we have absolutely nothing on him. Since he's been online, I'm assuming he's checking the thread and choosing not to post anything. I don't like this, so I'm going to

unvote
vote MafiaSSK

Hopefully he sees this and feels like responding.

I'm also looking for Stef to answer the questions asked of him, since his trip was canceled. I think a lot of people are holding off waiting for this and that's why there's been so little activity lately.

I hate giving Meta to anyone but unfortunetly this is typical of MafiaSSK no matter his alignment. I'm hoping he will answer the questions possed and give input on the Stef wagon. If I get something of substance he may be town.