Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[TierShift]

VOTE: reckoner
getreckt

also, I used 5 town tokens and thus am close to confirmed town!

[TierShift]

I already love the flavour!

[TierShift]

ugh, would be much less of a hassle if the mod would just include our previous role PMs. Cabd, what mod meta do you plan on using? Do you think magua designed the setup solely by himself?

I was a macho framing bodyguard in the previous incarnation. I could protect someone but I'd frame them.

There's very likely already a scumpost in this thread. And I'm not basing that on probability.

Nice, thanks for sharing.

Anyone else intrigued by the score in post 5?

[TierShift]

Why did you bother posting 15?

[TierShift]

Because all of you had awkward entrances.

Then why are you voting elsewhere?

Now answer the question.

Annoying throwaway comments that are purely made so others ask the writer what he means annoy me; just post the fucking elaboration immediately.

[TierShift]

I'll elaborate if I decide it's worth doing.

See, this is what I mean.

[TierShift]

Aight, so I don't want to play the "outguess the mod" game, but I am willing to share any information people want to know about prior mafia stuff that is legal for me to tell you.

Also,

Vote: TierShift

Hi, do I know you? Why do you vote me?

Hi everyone!

I was a limited rolecop before the reroll. I could learn if my target's role was normal or not normal. I also knew a vanilla townie existed and was aligned with the town.

I'm kind of intrigued by this because I was a Tracker (just a tracker, no frills), and my flavor implied that i was the only investigative role. But that was probably just silliness.

VOTE: Cooper

Now I will finish reading the game.

Yeah uh I was a framing bodyguard so I very very much doubt you were.

Despite that, he does intentionally play to win the game (e.g., I was scum with him once and his lurky playstyle let him survive all the way to lylo as the only scum forever).

That's funny, I remember being scum with him once and him getting lynched day 1 because of his lurking. Oh, I did win the game. Easy as shit if there's no trace to your teammate because he doesn't fucking post.

So no, I don't think he really plays to win. He doesn't play at all.

I'm not really advocating a policy lynch on who but I certainly don't have hard feelings towards cabd for doing that as who is a piece of shit as whatever alignment

Please prove me wrong who

I just got home, was out all day with family. I was mobile posting all day.

Cabd is actually scum, though, because of that policy lynch + HEY YALL LETS TALK ABOUT PRIOR ROLES BECAUSE UHHH MOD META ANYTHING TO STOP ME FROM HAVING TO TALK ABOUT REAL THINGS.

Yeah this is shit I'm pretty happy with my vote

[TierShift]

I wanna say that despite ceph's totally shitty posts he's probably town.

[TierShift]

You can shove the attitude ts, thanks

Especially while agreeing with me

Where and in what way am I agreeing with you?

Yeah this is shit I'm pretty happy with my vote

WHy is it shit

Because there was obviously no intent to avoid engaging this game by cabd and you made it seem like there was. You seemed to be pretty certain in your read but now that there's resistance to your read you try to justify it with even more bullshit ('it was just about the direction he was heading') which is put forward more as an excuse for scumreading him than as a read you believe in. Town don't need to make excuses for reads, they believe in reads.

Seriously, people, read 104 and see it's a fucking excuse.

[TierShift]

So right now I'm trying to find a reason to play in a sub par player list, with zero activity.

Maybe you should stop adding to amount of subpar people then.

I'm replacing out, I don't want to drag my team down.

Also I'm quitting this site and mafia in general after I finish my other ongoing games.

Who, I think you can play mafia. All you gotta do is post more. Don't replace out. Just give us your thoughts from time to time.

[TierShift]

@Tier: You've been suspecting reck for a lot of the same reasons as me while calling me an idiot. I don't know why you're jumping down everyone's throats and getting pissy at everyone on page 5, last time I played with you you were pretty calm and not an ass for no reason.

Are we suspecting reck for the same reasons? I don't get that from your posts.

shos, opinion on reck?

[TierShift]

mehtown

becos why

[TierShift]

we're also ages past RVS so stop that line of reasoning. You've got some reads, so why aren't you voting there?

[TierShift]

"Obviously no intent"? How is it obvious? He brought up setup speculation about a completely unrelated game that has no actual impact or anything on this game and asked for EVERY PLAYER IN THE GAME to engage in said useless bullshit setup speculation. How is that "obviously" not engaging?

Bringing that up dictates the course of the early phase of this game and that course is shitty and not productive and bullshit. It's scummy enough,

especially so early on D1

, to warrant a push.

Your defense of him is really cute though

I know cabd as a very thorough player. Wanting to understand the previous setup suits him. He wasn't doing it in a way to avoid commenting, he was just doing first things first. I've seen scumhim lurk and not contribute, but it's too early to tell if that is what he's doing,

especially so early on D1

.

[TierShift]

minus for votes cast, plus for votes received?

No. Doesn't add up.

I like the way rhinox is going about the game.

Not really feeling a shos wagon as it's based on not cooperating, essentially, which I don't find to be a scumtell for him.

Copper is posting safe. Trying not to butt heads.
VOTE: copper

Shos, thoughts on copper?

[TierShift]

That's hilarious on so many levels Tier:

- I am bold as fuck when I play scum.

- One of the reasons why Sthar8 townread me in the game we just played together was me being conciliatory for the sake of information gathering.

- I just finished butting heads with Ceph.

Are you bored with this game and scum claiming?

Uh, take it easy. Why do you feel the need to reference self-meta at the notion of being attacked?

[TierShift]

The butting heads with ceph was safe AS FUCK

[TierShift]

It was on theory ffs

[TierShift]

Uh, take it easy. Why do you feel the need to reference self-meta at the notion of being attacked?

Being abrasive isn't going to make this go away, copper.

[TierShift]

"dont try to make BS plays or apply pressure for BS on d1 bc it's d1"

ok

Ftfy

[TierShift]

I really don't care about self-meta tells.

Copper is very good scum FYI and I can back up that assertion if necessary. In hindsight, I see differences in the two games I've played with him, and I feel good about my ability to eventually read him.

What is your current read on copper?

[TierShift]

I really don't care about self-meta tells.

Copper is very good scum FYI and I can back up that assertion if necessary. In hindsight, I see differences in the two games I've played with him, and I feel good about my ability to eventually read him.

What is your current read on copper?

Ambivalent for now, but call me when he starts walling.

Because you can read him when he does or because he's scum if he does?

just gonna not interact with TierShift for the remainder of the game

Yeah cool

[TierShift]

The reason I think copper is town is a lot of the early showing of trying to figure things out, his discrediting my attempts to discredit his townread on me, and I feel like the cockiness regarding his read on me likely comes from town.

What do you make of his overreaction to being voted?

[TierShift]

I think his decision to try and put attention onto the mysterious scoring thing in our current game state is suspicious.

Why is it?

If Cabd is scum, probably so is Tiershift, Cabd being scum would explain why he was making sense on that read in particular.

I don't understand this. Do you mean to say that if I'm scum, I only make understandable reads on my teammates? If so, that's hilarious, as I haven't even given a read on cabd.

yo I still need to read a few pages but I saw the VC change and it made me think maybe the previous roles have to do with the "score"

No it does have something to do with votes I think.

No, the only things that have been said are that they think I'm on the right track applying pressure to Cabd/Cephrir and that they believe shos/T-Bone are town. That's it.

My PT is pretty dead with regards to this game, mostly because it started so late.

Why ceph?

[TierShift]

@Tier
The kind of information you shared on Cabd is useful, so I would put a premium on and not disclose it as scum unless there was a good reason to do so, as a soft deflection for a teammate it makes sense, it also makese sense for you as town to say. You did give a read, you implied null to town with the post about Cabd being thorough and that you find his behavior wrt setup spec. in line with his play, don't try to weasel out of it preemptively covering yourself in case Cabd starts playing lurkscum as is his want lately when he rolls that.

I said it's in line with his play, with what he usually does. That is not the same as saying that it's the same as what town-him usually does. He's currently lurking which I do associate with his scumgame. I'm not weaseling out of anything. What is your read on cabd, then?

[TierShift]

Shos, where are you going with this?

[TierShift]

I don't understand what the difference is between what you are doing and what I am doing. Why do you feel like I'm backtracking on my read in 246, when you are doing the same as I am?

[TierShift]

I still fully disagree that I gave a read on cabd. I can think people scummy for attacking my scumreads in a scummy manner.

[TierShift]

but now that he is back to lurk-mode he is looking increasingly scummy and Reck might have been right on his read of the situation, the difference is my read is in the open for all to see whereas you are trying to hide having given one in the first place, plus you attacked Reck way more than I did, all signs that make a Cabd/Tier/x team more likely.

Cabd being scum doesn't just make Reck 'right' about the situation, that's preposterous. His initial attack on cabd was scummy and you agreed on that with me. What does cabd's alignment have to do with that?

I simply have not given a read at all. Please quote where I did.

And what does me attacking reck have to do with me being buddies with cabd or not?

[TierShift]

My position on Reck is not how you described it, what I said at the time was: I am still making up my mind whether his attack was scummy or not and that it depended a lot on what Cabd, whom I was lightly townreading at the time, would do, so how exactly did I agree with you?

My bad, I misremembered. I don't understand how cabd being scum makes reck 'right' about this attack, please explain that.

Because there was

obviously

no intent to avoid engaging this game by cabd and you made it seem like there was.

This says you are ok with Cabd's post, you then go further on covering your back with the: I've seen Cabd lurk as scum... but it's too early to tell.

I'm okay with cabd's post. That is NOT a read. I can be okay with a certain scumpost. I can even be okay with someone's every post and still scumread them for general lack of direction, for instance.

The last question doesn't merit an answer, if you are teammates you have a vested interest in him not being early wagoned and lynched but you also don't want to tie your fate to a player that has shown he might lurk and get himself quickly lynched as scum, this is how I interpret the deflection I quoted, which was part of your Reck campaign. Why are you so worried about a TS/Cabd connection?

What I'm worried about is you pushing bullshit. I don't care if I have a 'connection' to cabd, if there were one. But there isn't and I'm trying to find out why you're acting like there is.

[TierShift]

This doesn't make sense. First off, he posted it so early in the game that there wasn't even anything else for him to try and avoid talking about. Second, something something starting a policy lynch is a null tell.

Driving the conversation towards theory/setup/speculation allows scum to not contribute anything to the game. I've hidden behind it several times as scum. It's not about what he was avoiding THERE, it's about the direction he was heading. We have now had several pages of people claiming roles and wondering AHHH WHERE ARE THE OLD ROLE CLAIMS and it's just silly.

Advocating a policy lynch is pretty bad, unless the player is truly horrendous -- IE, not Who. Additionally, if it was really that bad that Cabd doesn't like playing with him, his team had the option to swap.

This post comes from town. Even if we disagree about the usefulness of (at least some of the) claims of the pre-reroll, this shows town mindset, imo.

Yeah no. Convince me. Without calling my dislike of this bullshit.

[TierShift]

shos, your reck townread is shit. I'll give you time to reread and reprocess. Afterwards I want you to say it's shit.

Also, explain your ceph scumread to me in 3 sentences.

[TierShift]

blegh, I don't feel so sure about you. Where would you suggest I vote? Not super up for cabd, would vote if needed.

[TierShift]

also, I'm very thorough and paranoid at mylo/lylo!

[TierShift]

I don't get why T-Bone is supposed to be town either.

T-bone is in this game?

I need someone to condense why shos is scummy, I do n't see it but I am also not townreading him, I really dislike the catch-up posting style he is using btw.

I'm not sure on shos yet. I get that the posting style is tryhard, but I don't associate that with his town- or scumgame. Pretty sure I'll be able to read him later.

[TierShift]

Oh yeah T-bone could use sme pressure votes too

VOTE: cabd

[TierShift]

uh, I think I am.

[TierShift]

Vote: Tiershift

Voting is a bitch on a phone or I would have done this a few hours ago. Let's lynch him.

I suggest you learn to read!

6. okay so tboner is town.

Why?

Cabd, why do you feel it's weird that I was defending you from reck's attack on page 4?
Can you elaborate on your reck townread?

Ceph, I'm more worried about people's townreads on reck than on you atm. How do you feel about all the townreads on reck?

[TierShift]

I was just talking specifically about Cabd there. I'd also like to hear what was different about your approach vs. mine there.

If this is directed at me I don't understand it.

I am a little worried about them, but mostly in the sense that I don't understand where they're coming from.

That's what I'm saying. You thinking this doesn't have consequences on your reads on the players townreading him?

It's also curious that you seem to have suddenly stopped treating me like I'm retarded.

Well you suddenly stopped posting like you're retarded

[TierShift]

I wanna yell at you again!

[TierShift]

okay then

I was just talking specifically about Cabd there.

I'd also like to hear what was different about your approach vs. mine there.

Now who was the bolded adressed to and what approacb are you talking about here

Your later explanation is totally stupid

[TierShift]

After ISOing, I think shos is town, with a few reservations. Why is he a collective scumread? All I see is people hating on his catchup but no real reasons for his scumminess.

Not feeling good about this.

Also, hi mollie!

[TierShift]

Slept on it. Pretty sure copper is scum. I'll lay out the full reasons why after Easter dinner but the TL;DR is there's no actual thoughts behind his posts nor his pushes, and his back-off of me was likely pre-meditated. It certainly doesn't look organic.

Looking forward to this.

[TierShift]

Rhinox isn't really voteparking imo. He's just one of those people who scumread shos for ???

[TierShift]

oh thingmaker, enlighten me

[TierShift]

Rhinox isn't really voteparking imo. He's just one of those people who scumread shos for ???

THIS post.

just look at it.

JUST LOOK AT IT.

pls halp

After ISOing, I think shos is town, with a few reservations. Why is he a collective scumread? All I see is people hating on his catchup but no real reasons for his scumminess.

Not feeling good about this.

Also, hi mollie!

Read my posts

He outright refuses to be protown

antitown=scum?
Still, I'm not sure I understand. If you're talking about his attack on you, I don't understand how that is antitown. If you're talking about him fucking around around 132, I'm disappointed,

[TierShift]

also mollie, feel free to share on your shos scumread.

[TierShift]

well, he's voting for something he supposedly believes in. He's not just parking for lack of a better spot to vote, which is how I always assumed voteparking is described.

Ceph, still not seeing it. We'll talk again when I've firmed up my shos read.

[TierShift]

Obviously I didn't like him asking for other players to pressure me (aka come up with a reason to scumread me)...why couldn't he have done that himself?

As you haven't grasped it yet...note the fabulous use of the word 'too' in the post where I ask this!

Too Copper's credit he's at least continually asking people why I am town, Tiershift doesn't care.

which is scum motivated! or maybe you're just boring!

His posts read to me like a commentary on the game, with very little original input coming from himself.

Let me just comment on this real quick!

[TierShift]

I know!

[TierShift]

Can you dazzle me with why you are voting Cabd now....for....FIFTY POINTS???

I'm going to try to be somewhat more conservative with voting. Cabd's catchup was shitty.

T-bone, where are you going with this attack on me? I really don't understand where you're coming from and why you're singling out on me. The things you pick feel like arbitrary elements of someone's game that you could pick out of anyone's right now.

[TierShift]

Eh, what the heck
VOTE: katsuki
die suck die

L-1

[TierShift]

Katsuki, why is shos scum?

[TierShift]

DEAR LLD,

YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT CUPCAKE IS TRYING TO SAY, AND IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS SCUM FOR BUSSING, LYNCHING THEM BEFORE THE PERSON BEING BUSSED IS STRAIGHT UP RETARDED. IT'S PRETTY FUCKING CLEAR THAT IF YOU STEP BACK FOR A SECOND, YOU'LL REALIZE THAT THIS'LL BE ONE OF THOSE LYNCHES WHERE YOU GO "WELP, WHY THE FUCK DID WE DO THAT" WHEN YOU END UP WITH A KATSTOWNFLIP IF IT GOES THROUGH.

SHOS PLAY IS

VERY

INDICATIVE OF SCUM AND LYNCHING KATS INSTEAD BECAUSE 'KATSUKI IS BEING KATSUKI' IS REALLY REALLY DUMB.

(also mean things HERE about me for stating that reading the game will negatively affect my reads, which is not dumb at all)

LOVE,
GOOEYGAMMA

Stop breaking the rules and start telling me why shos's play is very indicative of scum.

[TierShift]

I would be okay with either kat or cabd lynched.

[TierShift]

reference?

[TierShift]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60439 <--newbie I replaced into as town, copper scum

Here's the thing. This slow fade on, off, on to gain acceptance is what he did as scum to me in a newbie I replaced into.

I don't really find this in the reference.

I have an opinion on this, but let's hear what copper says.

[TierShift]

Shos ur walls are too long

Just lemme say this

Would you expect scum-me to take the exact same approach as in previous games? Would you not believe scum-me to fool you for at least a few days?

Will read more thoroughly tomorrow.

[TierShift]

Like I'm not even buddying in any way

[TierShift]

Prod received.
Sorry guys, I have a hard time motivating myself for mafia atm

Also, away for the weekend, so:

V/la until sunday evening

[TierShift]

Okay I only read like 10 posts

you should know that I'm usually successful inscumreading him

But this is a load of crap

Re scumlurking: I was sitelurking. Had a busy few days with little motivation to play. Should be back up by monday.

copper, don't go play one game meta please okay?

[TierShift]

Hi I'm back. Going to catch up asap.

[TierShift]

Okay I really do not have time to properly catch up rn but I want to talk about this game

iec, why is katsuki off the table till day 2? All I see in a quick skim over his iso is fluff and his most current readslist is a complete joke.

[TierShift]

Is the cabd wagon still for lurking? I would rather have a somewhat more informative flip day 1.

[TierShift]

Why did the wagon on kats dissipate?

[TierShift]

@tier: see 926

Oh, I thought that was about cabd.

[TierShift]

T-bone, how are your reads coming along?

[TierShift]

I really really hate that strategy

Lec, what do you think of T-bone?

Also my team is going to start working on this game this is gonna be great!

[TierShift]

I for one really hope we can do something with the score thingy and it changes overnight or something

[TierShift]

Lec, what do you think of T-bone?

1. It's an i.

Uh but when I said i the first time you didn't respond

2. I think he's scummy, but not in a dynamic or exciting way that would make me risk lynching him over Cabd. The only player who fits that bill for me is you, because if you flip scum I think we can infer something from your windows of higher activity and lower activity.

I don't get why you're saying I'm the most likely to be scum but you're not making any effort to get me lynched.

I really really hate that strategy

If town want to lurk their way to a loss, that probably creates a pro-town meta in the long run. We just have to ruin maybe 10-20 games, and we will all find paradise.

It's never gonna happen.

honestly can't see how he got that and not me

lol
tier's low content is actually town indicative. he's town leader when scum. but the case is not the low content - the case is the intentional lurking and appearing

How can you be so sure about this? You don't think I'm capable enough of switching around my scumgame?

T-bone, stop making lame excuses and talk to me about your reads.

[TierShift]

I don't think you've seen anything other than my town leader play, regardless of alignment. Where have you seen me being inactive?

[TierShift]

Shos, I asked you a question. Have you ever seen something else than my town leader play?

T-bone you're the fucking worst player in this game

[TierShift]

If you expect anyone to be able to read posts like that, think again.

[TierShift]

Okay I read the post and don't really get the reason for calling ceph scum. I also don't understand why you aren't pushing him.

[TierShift]

Gdi otoh I want to interact with you otoh I really don't

[TierShift]

How the fuck am I supposed to play this game, how the fuck am I supposed to interact with you, when I try to engage you with my reads that you complete ignore it and tell everyone that I am ignoring you and not giving my reads?

How the fuck am I suppose to play when my credibility as a player is being attacked personally? How the fuck does anyone defend from "you are obviously lying about your real life constraints to strategically avoid this thread". When Copper tried to do the same to you I DEFENDED you for it. I will defend anyone for it, but I can't get the same courtesy?

I really missed your post. Can you now answer the below?

Okay I read the post and don't really get the reason for calling ceph scum. I also don't understand why you aren't pushing him.

Shos, I asked you a question. Have you ever seen something else than my town leader play?

I'll give you an answer in a minute. off the top of the head - you were scum against metown in Shameless, you were town against mescum in Austin Powers, and you were town with metown in Breaking Bad mafia.

you were much, MUCH more dominant as scum than as town. MUCH more active, much more than the pushes that you give here, which appear at least to be genuine.

hence townread.

Ugh I think this is only valid for the games you have seen from me and I'm a bit sad that you don't hold me capable of changing it, but whatever

Like, when someone that everyone kind of agrees is scummy DOESN'T get lynched, but random flashwagons keep appearing, that is a red flag.

Okay, so you think scum is responsible for making counterwagons appear? Who do you think is doing this, then?

[TierShift]

I don't think I like NS for town

[TierShift]

Katsuki's shift onto cabd is really sketchy and I'm not voting cabd today.

Why does anyone think katsuki is town? Serious question.

I find myself sympathising a lot with shos which both comforts me and somewhat bothers me!

[TierShift]

tier, your tone this game is not like it was in the poe game and it bothers me in a difficult to quantify manner

You were in Poe?

Rhinox, it's not that katsuki is going for the counterwagon. It's that cabd had been hanging around the null/scum mark for lurking or something and now when deadline approaches this is suddenly 'not town-cabd' and reck and iec made very good points on cabd. It's fine if you vote the counterwagon, but pretending you're suddenly certain he's scum is not.

[TierShift]

Oh, right.

[TierShift]

Score didn't change overnight

Catching up with all the stuff I missed tomorrow because tmorrow I need to study so I can procrastinate then!

[TierShift]

Hey, that's weird, but you're right.

So, I am/was surprised at 4 things:
1. kats got lynched over cabd
2. kats was town
3. kats role was superlame
4. the hammer vote has been nightkilled

Do you conclude anything from this?

I kind of don't and I feel I should

[TierShift]

if cabd flips scum, I'm gonna swarm through the katsuki wagon for scum.

Why?

[TierShift]

Nevermind, I thought katsuki flipped scum for a second >.>

[TierShift]

Do you think Tboner is scum? wink wink?

Uh, I don't think he's particularly town. The only thing he cares about is his image which in small quantities in somewhat of a scumtell but like this I really don't know anymore. I hope to get a better grip on him by reading stuff I haven't.

But are you suggesting I have some kind of knowledge here with your 'wink wink'? Cos I don't get it

[TierShift]

Spoiler: longpost

The whole p8 discussion about prior roles looks stupid as hell. there's nothing to be learnt from that, and I have no idea why it is even done. notsci's evasive answers make me icky, but they're all irrelevant so I'm not going to give that too much weight.

@Rhinox 202: the 'if any' is key. this can be paraphrased in more details as "I am not supporting a policy lynch, but even if I did, I don't see how *who* is the target over *notscience*, since he is hated."

@notci, 203: what was the purpose of you lying there, knowingly? are you really hated or are you lying tehre too?

LLD's 206 sounds like genuine disappoint. I feel you too btw, but my rage went off after getting the *first* town role pm :/
but why is the vote on me?

@218: what was bad in that at the time? I did claim my prior role, and got a single scumread and two townreads which I think I explained; I don't see how this counts against me?

And why do you bring it up like 13 posts after LLD voted me?

ignore cuz 223

It's a better choice than blindly pursuing something I'm not fully confident in myself to the point where it will likely become a tunnel that won't stop.

What do you think of shos? Comments were made early about people potentially using the claims to avoid doing anything, his ISO doesn't really do much even though he never claims. He has a fair amount of posts, he declares two townreads and a scumread but that's about it.

I think his decision to try and put attention onto the mysterious scoring thing in our current game state is suspicious.

Can you elaborate please on this? I mean is that what made you vote me? I'm a mathematician, wherever numbers are I'm focusing. but regardless - why would you NOT try to figure out the score thing? this is public knowledge which probably can affect the game somehow somewhen.

lol@222 ceph
that post is like me when I'm scum

223 is a good post with town mindset imo. I think this post alone legits a mild townread on NS.

@ceph's longpost @me 245:
1. I don't think the mods are shit. But in general, most mods don't shift mindsets completely between games in this regard. As a mod myself, I know that usually my fakeclaims don't change in shape. That means, I don't, say, one time give full fakeclaims, one time give only name, one time tell them give me something and I'll build for you. It's often the same.

2. You know what, I'll revoke my statement there, yes. you calling it pointless would be worth the vote and all, exspecially gamestart, but then the fact that you cooperated shows that this was not intended to actually stop this from happening, and rather was just a statement of your thoughts, after not-so-deep thinking.

3. the idea was that he brought that up, which, supposedly can only help town; and then it's like he's trying to force a weak townread on himself at a super early gamestate because of it. the word I'm looking for is suggestion. Town would bring it up for the information it may give; that post looked like a 'hey look what a townie thing I did, how bout you townread me for it?'

4. disregard.


Ceph, I asked you in 249 what was the purpose of the intentional badposts in gamestart and you haven't answered it, it seems, but it matters no more. The reason I did this was because I often start games with acting scummy to pull reactions and start the game quicker. I'm saying this because I saw people are scumreading me, and it has to be because of gamestart play because I practically wasn't here for like three days so.

Can you explain to me what made you *confident* that I am scum in 253?

Rhinox, can you explain to me 252? I quoted those because these are important details to remember. and clearly you haven't seen me try hard as scum, lol. If you'd like I can dig up some scumgames for you. I had only 2 in like, the last 123 years.

TS, I was falling behind on the game. I was not oging anywhere with this, I was just trying to catch up and work with anything that seemed workable. Why do you avoid taking a stance on it, and just ask questions? This looks a lot like the buddybuddying you've done to me in prior games. I know I'm a sucker for this so I'm trying to be aware for these shits nowadays

T-Bone, asmuch as I like you defending me and/or townreading me(or was that Reck? :/ ), could you please elaborate?

(btw I'm on page 11 if you guys aren't following)


HOLY SHIT MOLLIE YAAAAAAA <3
but seriously, Tbone's reaction is assholish >_>

@Copper 267 - why is him "returning" to lurkmode makes him "increasinly scummy"? how is that alignment indicative?
and re: who - nope? why would he be?

NS's 269 sucks loads of butt. PLing a lurker all of a sudden?

oh for the love of god TS and copper you two need to shut the fuck up I'm tired of reading you


I'll keep commenting soon, I wanna eat some.

I like this post, I see freely flowing thoughts which I associate with town-shos.

meanwhile this is worthy of being done
UNVOTE: Ceph

(btw, did anyone investigate the score thing yet? does unvoting and voting trully work with it? we can test this very easily if everyone cooperates)

And the scoring thing fits in that and I feel like the people bashing him for talking about it are scummy; it's a very easy thing to scumread someone for talking about scoring and that has nothing to do with alignment. Let me see who the people were that did this.

Katsuki not re-evaluating in the light of much better posts does him no favors and his team can ATE all it wants. 536 was a great post and his total lack of comment on it or any recent shos posts just reinforces my whole picture.

How do you feel about rhinox not evaluating either?

regarding shos

Again, this looks like a real thought process to me. I've seen a lot of town players get paranoid about wagons that build too quickly, which I see as a usually unjustified fear but I understand it. He's giving out a lot of townpoints to this wagon, too, despite the fact that I can see several players on it I at least am not townreading strongly.

Reck what the fuck are you talking about?
can youtown please start playing and not spit crap?

This line reminded me forcefully of shos' play in Inuyasha, finally. I wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much were it not aggression against an explicit townread. He wants his townread to get in the game -- it's not a mudsling as it would appear to be otherwise.

I am not hard townreading shos here but posts like this definitely make me want to return to the drawing board for at least a moment. And that's why it bothers me not to see that. Katsuki looks more locked onto a mislynch target and determined not to let go. If he wanted to try to paint these posts as scummy, I could accept that if it was done passably, but you don't ignore three walls by your top suspect who was previously pretty much lurking.

I like that ceph is the first one to reconsider shos after pushing him hard and seeing that there is still support for his wagon.

ffs I am a horrible bitch in games. I am trying to get better

It's okay mollie

Anyway if you are coming off shos scum take a look at Rhinox, I need a shower.

Marking this as lead for NK

[TierShift]

Spoiler: defence against shos

I'm currently going through Shos's posts trying to figure out how his stance on me works.

First, he finds my post 223 town enough to gain a townlean on it's own.

Then, 269 where I say I would be fine lynching cabd if I saw nothing from him soon, gains me massive scumpoints. I never said this was a PL (granted I think in my initial readup response I did but I think I mistook this post for my wall post where I said I was fine wiht lynching tbone. I never said this was a PL.

That post alone, was enough to override the initial townread and shove me into probscum. That doesn't seem like a town mindset.

@284 - the idea is not that I agree/disagree with that post at all. I think it's wrong, yes, but that is irrelevant, because the reason I think it is wrong is information that I think a townie may not think of, ergo, this can come from a town mindset. note that I said I *CAN* see how this..etc, not I *THINK* that this..etc. The idea is that it is not a "OH YOU MUST BE TOWN", and rather a, "oh you may be town after all". and yeah, of course these stuff can be faked, everything can be faked. I'm very good as scum, you don't have to teach me. GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE TUNNEL. this is not a me-building-up-for-scumreading-you (I'm not, as of now, in case you missed), this is NOT ABOUT YOU. so it does not even matter if you said this too.

that's because you're building up to scumread me! I don't like the nitpicking word choice, but I just wanted to quote this because this feels like exactly what you are doing to me, and you're just like "dw ceph Im not doing it to you!"

His post to reck feels like he's testing the waters on one of the only two people liable to defend me if he wanted to start a wagon on me, given that most of his reasons to scumread me are flimsy and false its like he was looking for a way to get a scumread going on me because his teammates said that only two people were townreading me.

wtf. like on the one hand I'd very much like to vote you right now and on the other I see all the votes piling so quick that it makes sense you're just being scumvoted

Katsuki (5): Iecerint, copper223, Lady Lambdadelta, Cephrir, pirate mollie
This wagon is a good wagon. mark these guys on it as a group of at least 4 townies

Also should be taking some looks at those who lurked so far. it's been a week almost, no excuses

Why did I get scumread for expressing interest in a lurker then? Why is that wagon a "good wagon" and why are all of those people town? What happeened to "mollie hasn't posted enough to townread her?" You've said ceph is town. That's the only person on this wagon you've committed a read on up until this point and hten you just throw this in there like "oh this wagon has at least 4 town!" which doesn't make any sense considering the only reads you have given up until this point are Me, Reck, TS, and ceph.

A big thread in his catchups is "noone has given any reasons I'm easily scum" which I will reread and verify, but I remember at least asking LLD to elaborate some on her shos read.

I can live with a kats lynch but I'd rather an NS lynch as of now.

You've commented on 3 posts of mine. 1 was a townish post. 1 was a post where I was interested in a lurker that you took for a PL but was moreso for what everyone else said about scum-him would want to hide and promise shit that never comes. 1 was a post where you accuse me of parroting that is blatantly false if you read the thread. This looks like you setting yourself up to join kats wagon later and then push me tomorrow.

And then "lol havent voted better vote ns"

I don't understand how this is a logical thought pattern at all.

I like this post. NS looks like he's trying to get shos's thought process rather than overly defending himself or immediately OMGUS'ing.

let's talk! I think you are town, how does this make you feel? I also have no particular interest in the two main wagons (shos, katsuki) that have cropped up today. They don't interest me because I haven't had the opportunity to be involved with either player. My feelings on Tier are pretty much the same, and in my gut I don't like Ceph right now. Any of those reads we should discuss?

Feels like townlurking.

It feels like you are giving a buddy wiggle room after an early push on him.

I just don't see him really pursuing any other wagon so its odd he's complaining about there being no other wagon. In know he was voting you and got pissy that nobody else seemed interested in voting you, but I didn't see him all too concerned with convincing anyone to vote you so... :shrug: He's also made some big posts recently but out of all that I'm still not sure he's committed to any read. I'm not sure what about my question makes you think what you did.

this game doesn't look like any other wagon is viable but me and kats.

who else do you think we should be wagoning?

I've no problem with that, but if you insist, any of NS and TS are scumdidates imo.

Well I don't see any way that I'd be voting kats or NS today, so talk to me about TS. Can you give me a few sentences on why he's scum?

Rhinox looks like he's exploring all avenues explorable.

Tier has enough posts for people to develop a read off of. Not posting because he's not posting isn't one of them. It's lazy.

Endorsed.

Ok T-Bone, I can see Tier being scum here:

VOTE: Tier

He is switching tones too often, he was very dogmatic and authoritative to start out with, I am still iffy on the way he pushed on me and then backed off, and after the T-Bone argument he has shut down only to follow up on my: possibly he is demotivated after the argument with T-Bone using a similar argument about not having the motivation to play mafia which looks pretty manipulative, while at the same time calling me out for giving meta about him that wasn't even a read, which looks hyper defensive.

I has sad

VOTE: cephrir

Why did you vote ceph here, NS?

[TierShift]

One thing that confuses me about Cephrir is that I feel like he would have picked up on players townreading him for crumbing knowledge about the score system, but then he expressed paranoia about people townreading him.

Like, I assume he crumbed it with knowledge that it would probably make people townread him. Which is fine. But then it's weird to get paranoid about people townreading you.

I assume he voted you based on an inference that my ONE WEIRD TRICK ABOUT CEPHRIR post was inviting pressure on you. Mostly it was just intended to address that you'd alluded to confusion on that point enough that I thought it might warrant clearing-up (whether because you didn't intend to imply it, or because your reads are being warped by something easy to understand). But he is welcome to correct me.

One thing that did occur to me about hyposcumCephrir is that it's possible that you did not intend to imply such knowledge as scum, and then simply neglected to correct people's inference. But I don't know why scumCephrir would express paranoia in that case, particularly.

I don't think you're scum.

My point is that even the circumstances that allow you to be scum are pretty zany.

(Which is probably relevant to people rationally townreading you in this game.)

(Which might be relevant to how you read players.)

I don't really like Iec's catchup posts but this is pretty perceptive, which is good.

I feel like I'm starting to understand shos better now and I'm starting to doubt my read on him.

I agree with the sentiment that this game is becoming difficult because almost everyone is looking town. This is kinda making me want to start purging all the lurkers/active lurkers/ppl that keep popping in now and then but haven't really been doing anything. There's probably at least 1 scum in Cabd, Reck, LLD, and Tier.

UNVOTE: for now so I can reevaluate things.

And also it seems like everyone is going to be VLA this weekend but just a reminder

I'll be LA as well this weekend and every weekend

, but especially this weekend because I'm traveling out of town for my wife's baby shower so today after 4 until sometime sunday evening I probably won't be able to do much more than phonepost.

Umm I need to see where this goes. I think the switch on shos is kind of late and might be motivated by people stopping scumreading shos.

Rhinox, why did you start to understand shos from this point?

It's really annoying to me that this mini theme has as many D1 posts as some large themes. It's making it hard to really keep up. The worst part is that, from looking through it, none of it is obnoxious spamposting. All of it is content, but it's making the game dense and hard to get into for me.

I have some town reads: mollie, Iecerint, copper, T-Bone, shos.

Everyone else is rather null-to-scum but all in one big grey goopy pile atm and I don't particularly see it getting any better.

This looks like scumlurking, in contrast to what T-bone was doing earlier. This is making excuses instead of trying to work with other townies despite being behind.

mollie have you made any attempt at all to

reach out

to me this game?

This is absolutely ridiculous seeing Reck has not even made one attempt at this himself.

Mine? It does not. It's themed about abusing lurkers who can't be assed to vote for themselves so clearly I can control it for them yada yada.

More ACTUAL substance coming soon (TM) (but for realzsies this time guyz)

Hey, where is the content? Cannot find it

Town:

pirate mollie My reasons on who are as previously stated. Mollie may be doing her "omg mollie goes paranoid on cabd" thing like she's done every game in the past with me but whatever. (Hey mollie we were town together once, but then you mislynched me to lose the game, remember that?)

Cephrir: Just Chandra things (tm) But yeah ceph is town and if ceph is scum really great job snowing me have a cookie and or an alcoholic beverage of your choice next time i'm in Baltimore?

copper223: I was leaning scum pretty heavily but his reaction to my scum read and subsequent posts are making me reverse course here.

Iecerint: Eh his open mind is something I associate with his town game. We'll see if that changes with a re-read, but as of right now he goes into town pile.

Meh?

notscience: I fully admit I am not currently having any luck trying my hand at reading notscience and will likely just sheep people from Town list above.

People whose posts I have been totally skipping or skimming and will get sorted up or down once I do my full reread

Rhinox
T-Bone
TierShift
shos

Scumpile-ish

Lady Lambdadelta: Fade for serious reasons, respected, prior content wasn't super town but not enough to go OMG SCUMPILE either.

Scumpile

xRECKONERx: "hey guys cabd role sounds like it could be scum i dunno, but hell it justifies my vote on it" Yeah, okay, no. If reck was like "omg guys cabd is the scummiest fucking scum ever" that wouldn't have been his reaction/statement. Such a halfhearted move on who he defines as his primary scum suspect AND has been voteparking? Nope.

Katsuki: Vague claim doesn't actually help things at this point because now that it's out in the open, if town it's gonna likely die if scum it's ezpz excuse. And I highly doubt it's the former.

This is throwing out a readslist just for the sake of it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: reck

If we're mislynching me and nothing I do is gonna stop that then so be it but for fuck's sake let me catch up and put my stamp on the game at first. I don't want another fucking bulbagame where I go to sleep and wake up quick mislynched.

xRECKONERx: "hey guys cabd role sounds like it could be scum i dunno, but hell it justifies my vote on it" Yeah, okay, no. If reck was like "omg guys cabd is the scummiest fucking scum ever" that wouldn't have been his reaction/statement. Such a halfhearted move on who he defines as his primary scum suspect AND has been voteparking? Nope.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This makes reck and cabd a very likely scumteam, coupled with cabd's scumread on reck which was not very logical. Cabd was probably going down and this definitely looks like last-minute distancing.

[TierShift]

Could you sum up your current reads, TS, in two sentences tops per read?

Did the flips make you reconsider?

Almost there, shos.

[TierShift]

Why does anyone think katsuki is town? Serious question.

i don't think anyone thinks katsuki is town and isn't named iecerint

I mean, kats is pretty hard to read in a vacuum IMO but in my meta on him scumkats is more involved, tries to actually get people lynched, is more manipulative, cares more, etc. And townkats lurks more, is less involved, goes with the flow, doesn't really make cases or what not especially early in games. Kats play looks more like townkats. I've even seen townkats selfvote on like day 3 rather than trying to get someone else lynched, and that fits with the whole "eff this I'm out" he was going with earlier. So in terms of his play this looks more like townkats to me. As for tone I already talked about how I expect the capsrage to come from scumkats moreso than townkats but Tammy told me kats has been doing that as town lately so... :shrug:

Its the same feeling I had last time I played with kats. You could tie me down and try to force me to explain what makes kats town and I can't really do it based on his play. But I think despite that, this looks like townkats. And I'm not too comfortable with a lot of the names on the kats wagon either.


Does anyone think Cabd is town? Tier what is sketchy about kat's shift onto Cabd? A player getting wagoned within a day or 2 of deadline shifting to the other viable wagon is not really something I find odd or out of place at all.

Gotta keep this in mind. Cabd and rhinox probably do not share alignment. If cabd is scum, rhinox is trying too hard to get a buddy lynched to be scum. If cabd is town, rhinox fits the profile of the scumplayer defending one mislynch strongly and pushing for the other.

I realise Iec has been doing the same but I think he is town so..

[TierShift]

I just realised there is a player called lady lambdadelta that has done absolutely nothing this game.

[TierShift]

All right, I think I'm caught up.

strong town

ceph
Iec

town

shos
NS- uhh this might be more null but I'm not putting this in scummy
mollie slot- ediie are you gonna do stuff today?
T-bone- I'm thinking this slot is on the right way, let's see where it goes.

scummy

Lady person
Rhino- town if cabd scum so maybe should be higher but I feel bad about his posts

lynch pls

reck
cabd

I really feel pretty good about cabd and reck being scum. I feel that both of them independently have a great chance of being scum and their interactions around cabd's readslist are telling.

VOTE: cabd
or reck whatever way this swings

[TierShift]

I feel I've given pretty good reasoning for why I think cabd and reck are scum, how about you respond to that instead of just disagreeing with me? Gonna search for that post.

[TierShift]

Also brb i need explanatin on ns town

my catchup is only 5 posts long, perhaps you can spot the reasons yourself!

[TierShift]

Also, reck is already framing ceph for when his buddy cabd flips scum.

[TierShift]

It's probably this

This post is probably coming from town. If LLD is scum, and knows something about it that scum don't want town to know or something, then this will be telling if town finds out about this later. if not, then scum has no reason to stop me from doing this analysis, and distract town, and rob time and effort for funsies out of town.

Or, town won't find out about this later? I think the read is all pretty conditional.

What I do think is that the thing she said about the score feels somewhat townish, despite what I said earlier about people using it to frame you. That's because I do not understand why lurkscum would post only for this...
Eh I don't really know what to think

[TierShift]

Your buttom line is that you wanr to lynch two lurkera indelendently
This i dont like

HOW ABOUT YOU TALK ABOUT MY REASONING INSTEAD OF THIS SUPERFICIAL SHIT

And hownthe hell os ns npt scummy i muatve missed it????

and learn to write

[TierShift]

Alright so you say you believe NS is town for not omgusing me, basically? Thats how I see it, not a misrep.

For being rational and showing a genuine representation of your stance on him.
And I don't care if his claim is true or not, honestly.

[TierShift]

Copper wasn't in the slot though.

Yes he was

Though the lead is not worth anything seeing his later pushes

[TierShift]

Wait...ceph claimed miller.

Uh uh what to do

LLD, are you gonna be useful today?

Rhino, please take a look at my catchup and the questions directed at you.

[TierShift]

I'm just gonna ignore what T-bone said btw
I suggest others do the same

[TierShift]

How do you feel about rhinox not evaluating either?

Having read ahead, I'm not sure I like where you're going with this. Because I already commented about ceph cheerleading me on while question kats about not reconsidering, when I was also not reconsidering. And if there was anything scummy about me not reconsidering, then bringing attention to it would be the last thing I'd want to do as scum wouldn't it? See here:

Ceph this post didn't sit right with me. Your recent posting about shos is weird and not a good weird. You're not voting shos anymore and you think he's posting better. You're not telling me I'm wrong in anything I've posted about shos - in fact you're basically telling me good job. But you're also questioning kats for not reconsidering on shos based on his better posting.Clear things up for me here, what are your current reads on shos, kats, me, and thoughts on my case on shos?

Oh that is interesting, I missed that. I like it. But I still want to know where others are regarding you.

Rhinox looks like he's exploring all avenues explorable.

Elaborate, please?

sure. While you are definitely strongly townreading a few players, you have no problem with exploring any other lynches. It feels a tad like you're buddying up to the few players and keeping all other options open.

It's not much of a case, it's more of a reminder to myself that you're showing somewhat opportunistic stances, just as you're doing with shos.

Umm I need to see where this goes. I think the switch on shos is kind of late and might be motivated by people stopping scumreading shos.

Oh it absolutely had to do with the fact that I was one of the last people (if not the last, I don't remember) voting shos while it became the cabd vs. kats show. Unlike some ppl in this game I'm not just going to park my vote on my top scum read and ignore everything else going on. Especially when there are 3 scum to lynch. And as I pointed out up above in my post 610, I didn't just sit there while people were no longer suspecting shos and then try to slink away when no one was looking. I was challenging ceph why he changed his mind. I kept asking mollie to explain her townread on shos which she never really did. As of the post you reference my vote on shos was no longer productive on D1. It was time to look elsewhere. And also...

Townreading him should have nothing to do with the main focus of the thread being elsewhere. Are you using the focus being elsewhere as an explanation of why you unvoted or of why you stopped scumreading him?

Rhinox, why did you start to understand shos from this point?

There was something in the interaction between mollie and shos that I didn't want to talk about too openly on D1 and felt maybe holding off on shos for D1 would be alright.

sure, do tell now.

Gotta keep this in mind. Cabd and rhinox probably do not share alignment. If cabd is scum, rhinox is trying too hard to get a buddy lynched to be scum. If cabd is town, rhinox fits the profile of the scumplayer defending one mislynch strongly and pushing for the other.I realise Iec has been doing the same but I think he is town so..

I think this is pretty much BS and I think even you realize that given your last sentence. And I mean I don't think I was even defending kats that strongly. Today I wish I had defended stronger.

Well, I certainly think you aren't scum together.
If he flips town, this IS a consideration I'll be having, but far from a certainty.

I just realised there is a player called lady lambdadelta that has done absolutely nothing this game.

She's done enough to get a read on. I don't like all the "oh shos is totes scum but hey lets lynch kats instead because reasons" and especially now that kats has flipped town LLD has gone from "meh whatever" to a suspect.

Uh okay I'm going to ISO her soon

Rhino, please take a look at my catchup and the questions directed at you.

You saw my "to be continued", right?

I did, I just thought you might forget!

[TierShift]

@rhinox:

I feel like I'm starting to understand shos better now and I'm starting to doubt my read on him.

This certainly looks like a read change on shos. Was this only due to the supposed crumb?

[TierShift]

Thanks for elaborating, but I still don't really get this. As far as I can tell, the only thing you're really referring to is the string of posts between me, shos, and a post from ns that wasn't directed at me from 680 to 688. And from that, you concluded that I'm "exploring all avenues explorable".

Okay, what I just described in the elaboration was my immediate reaction to the post. It felt like scum buddying up to a few townreads and looking everywhere else for possible lynches. That's a tone-read.

It is not in context. I have not yet done an ISO of you. It's just something that I very much dislike and will keep in mind when I reread you.

If my comment does not fit in context, I'll disregard it. If it does, I'll be damn sure to get your ass hauled. But currently I feel there is more value in interacting with you before completing the picture.

That's a basic description of how I form reads when I'm not sure.

[TierShift]

At the very very very most I can see how you would think that maybe I was considering exploring voting you at that point in time, if you're only surface reading words and not really understanding what was going on. But I wasn't, and the rest of the day don't recall ever considering voting for you or talking about you much at all other than to comment that I hadn't been paying much attention to you.

Uh, I thought that was exactly what you were doing. It didn't look like you were joking, I thought you were going to consider voting for me if shos provided good reasoning. Are you saying you were never were?

And I mean you were just asking ceph about me NOT reconsidering on shos so at one point I'm not reconsidering at that raises your eyebrows and then another point I am reconsidering and that also raises your eyebrows so its just starting to look like you have an agenda you're trying to fit actions into rather than interpretting what the actions really mean.

I was actually un-raising my eyebrows at you reconsidering! I was wondering why you did have the change of heart in the end. The timing was certainly suspicious, but you not actually townreading him negates that. I'll talk about your shos read in a bit.

[TierShift]

Actually TS I'm moving from "interested in your thought process" to "your points are just bad and scummy as hell"

Anyway if you are coming off shos scum take a look at Rhinox, I need a shower.

Marking this as lead for NK

orly? so lemme show you what I just found rereading bins and copper:

ts, shos, ice,

rhinox for pretty town

So I killed copper because he thought I might be scum even though copper got force-replaced for bins who put me in his "pretty town" pile?

Hey I think you missed this

Copper wasn't in the slot though.

Yes he was

Though the lead is not worth anything seeing his later pushes

[TierShift]

Rhinox, I'm going to agree with you that my points on you are not great. I had a bad feeling about you when I started my reread because of your empty shos push. I think that showed in my accusations. You're probably town and I want to work with you.

One thing that made me reconsider is that I AM seeing your points on shos TODAY. I agree that his 'oh katsuki died how the fuck did that happen the whole wagon must be scum together with cabd' is scummy. There are just a few town markers I have for him that he's displaying and I'm probably gonna write a nice long post about that either tomorrow or when I get out of the shower.

Rhino, who do you think is scum other than shos?

VOTE: reck
I feel much more comfortablr here I think.

[TierShift]

Drop the hypotheticals. Am I in that scumlist?

Can you convince me of NStown?

[TierShift]

Probably not. But I did just read NS in iso for the first time and I'm pretty comfortable with my town read.

Please do try to explain. I'm really conflicted on NS and egg is trying to convince me NS is scum but he's hopelessly behind atm. He also thinks you're town so..work with me here.

T-Bone is pretty obviously town.

Uh, I disagree. This is bullshit. I think he's probably town, but to say that he's obviously town is asinine. He's been blatantly antitown and the claim does absolutely jackshit for me. The only thing that makes me think he's town is the genuine reachouts he seems to be making, at times.

[TierShift]

Dodge

[TierShift]

Hi wis!

Playing in the afternoon.

[TierShift]

Hey so my promised afternoon of mafiascum turned into an afternoon of fun but not mafiascum!

[TierShift]

Can you tell me why egg thinks NS is scum?

He's behind and working double shifts so he's not catching up anytime soon. What he told me and I kinda agree with, is this:

through first six pages

He feels that NS is not really scumhunting and that his interactions with reck are not attempts to actually form a read on him. And he says that his keeping track of first roll claims looks like an attempt to stay busy.

through pages 6-14

He thinks notscience's insistence on previous roles without explaining why and doing something about it is weird. Especially if he uses it to very easily write off cabd as town. Just because someone (he himself did too!) maybe lied about their role.

I think that especially the second observation is very valid. He was just looking for a way to townread cabd for a while. However, I do see a number of posts that I associate with town, such as his posts where he presents reads. He doesn't try to take credit for moving the game with them.

Why did you feel the role-claiming thing was town?

[TierShift]

I hated the first half of it, but it got better.

Talk to me about this.

2 can anyone townreading notscience show me a single place in which he actually did something substantial in order to get his scumread lynched?

@rhino: this is what I also feel about notsci, btw.

Ceph is scum because his role looks like scum and posting makes him pure scum

What is it in his posting that mastin feels comes from scum?

Spoiler:

Actually if any of you have thoughts to bring in from your teammates, do that. at the moment none of them (I think) are reading this game to deep, I'm trying to read theirs though

NS, mind telling what YOUR thoughts is

If you're not scum you're literally the worst.

*Sigh*

I think I'm just going to shut up for a while in this game and read others' games. people in this game seem to have stopped trying and I'm tired of being the only one(with ceph, actually) who'se actually active.

also
VOTE: cabd

because apparantly more pressure is required

Nope. You want to act all high and mighty, then you don't just get to blow this off and go pout in a corner.

-You asked for people to share reads from their teams.
-NS shares reads from her teams and you get all annoyed and pull the "yeah but what about YOUR reads"

So my takeaway is you don't really care if people posts reads from their team or not you just thought it was a good thing to say at the time. You thought it'd make you look real town right? Why did you ask for teamate reads if you were just going to blow them off like this?


What purpose does a post like 1642 serve when anything I would possibly say in response has already been said in 1635? "Because drunk" is not a valid excuse. I did go into my townread on NS anyways, and nobody ever goes "guys guys deadtownie thought this guy was town maybe we shouldn't lynch him". Post something that matters. Tell me again about why NS is scum. Or comment on what I said about NS. Do you agree or disagree and why? Tammy told me that since bins and NS are friends and bins suspected NS when she replaced in and Tammy could see NS wanting to kill bins as scum.


Tell me about your read on Cabd. Stop dodging the question. Yesterday you said he was scum and didn't care which of him or kats was lynched. Then you preferred kats and never voted Cabd and seemed dejected when he might get lynched. Then today you said Cabd is just lynch fodder who is only maybe scum for being the counterwagon to kats. Now you're voting him for pressure. You're all over the place. What do you really think about Cabd? You're all "WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO'S ACTIVE??" but you're all fluff and you don't want to engage on the tough questions or commit to anything.

Rhinox, has mastin's thoughts helped you? they didn't help me. when I asked for food from teammates, what I wanted is food which has been COOKED, as in, reads with reasoning, not only "oh he thinks shos is town". Me asking for NS' thoughts is completely unrelated - he posted, which means he's reading and HERE, so I use the fact that he is HERE to actually gauge something out of it.

real good you do when you attack my drunkpost, lol. drunkpost is not an excuse, well then sorry, lynch me, eh?

maybe you're right, and I only feel that I'm the only one active because I'm on a holiday and just have too much spare time. but truth is that ceph, who's active just as welel, thinks the game became sluggy too. so I'm probably not just making shit up. probably.

my read on cabd? well, he's lurkish and all, active lurking, and his claim is proven but not alignment-telling. I can't quite explain how his wagon was so popular yesterday in contrast to katsuki. lynching cabd is basically a policy lynch; I don't recall me saying he was scum, but may be, don't remember. I'm currently voting him for pressure to fucking make him talk (he'll probably not even read this post so he won't know it, so he will feel the pressure lol), but in reality I want to lynch T-bone.

re: me 'fluffing' and 'not comitting' - I'm gonna lol at you and yell at you to read the thread. which read was I not comitted to? name one. Was it my katsuki read? maybe my ceph townread? or how bout my current Tbone read? any of those? The only one I can actually think you're right about is LLD, because for realz - she posted almost nothing all game and my townread on her goes like 1400 posts ago, and now I'm on the fence. but you calling me scum for this? this is bullshit.
pedit: LLD, posting =/= posting content.

Okay I'm full on back to thinking shos is town.

Man, that post sure sounds like you think Cabd is town, and are lynching him based on his activity, rather than any real semblance of his alignment.

And that shos town read is real bad.

Why don't you tell me why Shos is town?

Oh, and um, I'm forgetting something.... what am I forgetting...

Oh yeah! If you think I'm replacing out, you might need to expand your hobbies to "skullfucking yourself with a steel dildo until you grow more than 2 braincells".

I feel the prolonged scumread of shos is really shitty. You can't feel so good about a scumread if you're not caught up. Is there someone with good meta on LLD out there who can tell me if she does this as town?
Also, lol at the last sentence of that post.

[TierShift]

Come on, talk to me Wisdom (irony in the very player name!). Tell me what happens when Cabd flips town, because he's obvious town. Will you give me your vote to use wherever I want? Will you lynch Shos?

GREY, Ihope you can answer my questions.
Why the heck are you guys not defending cabd any stronger if you feel so sure he's town and do you need to be pressured into explaining?

First off, I don't normally explain townreads because it's anti-town. But given you clearly need aid, I'll give you some help.

{Chandra, reck, mollie} town


Who's response to my PL thing pretty much sorts him as town although I'm really fucking sad that he took it personally, and I do regret that. Ceph's town becase town Chandra is town. Reck's hardliner approach to me "lurking it out" is actually exactly what town should think if they thought my absence was intentional.

Other notes:

LLD being emotional about losing the tokens doesn't make her town this time, it just makes her (rightfully) pissed about last time.

The way copper has slow faded on me makes sense if he's using PURELY meta to sort me, but the fact that he idn't go and check if I was posting elsewhere does give me pause.

The way tier is defending me is really odd when I really have yet to do anything town whatsoever and was absent for like 8 pages.

Not relevant to this game but holy shit my scum meta has become lurking RIP golden age, deader than CLG this split.

This post doesn't come from a scum perspective. Multiple things on this post just don't.

Can't believe I have to explain this. His comments on Who pretty much only come from a town perspective, and given his actions this game, I can't see him being capable of faking it.

Further, his stance on me was unpopular at the time, and that's the key to all of this. He's been doing significantly unpopular things, that will put himself in a bad light. Do you really think he's a sufficiently bad player, that he would deliberately just avoid the thread when he DOES have time, when he's under pressure?

He's been at L-1 for 2 days in a row now, and still no panic. Nothing. What kind of shit brained logic do you have to use to assume that this kind of play comes from a scum!Cabd, let alone scum ANYONE. If his lurking doesn't have strategic benefit, what's the scum motivation behind DOING IT?

Yeah, I don't think this one post of cabds is enough of a reason to townread him.

No, I'm saying Cabd is town and you're wking him.

Why does cabd need to be town for the wk?

[TierShift]

Wisdom, this is the only time I'm going to townread you. I cannot read you for shit and the last time I townread you you were scum. It's all because of your teammates. Jsyk

Overly strong defences can be both of a buddy and of a townie. They are just stances that you can point at later and say: gimme towncred. Either for defending the townie or for doing the thing that scumbuddies 'would never do'.

[TierShift]

The Day 1 wagons make a looooot of sense as both on town :/

Why do you say this and why do you still want to lynch cabd then?

The basis for Wisdom suspecting LLD is not hard to understand at all.

The idea is that Cabd is probably not any townier than null for anyone, so dramatic grandstanding to protect him doesn't make sense from someone without an agenda. People with an agenda are sometimes scum.

If Cabd is town, the agenda is whiteknighting. If Cabd is scum, the agenda is trying to stall at L-1 + additional pressure while Cabd gets back to the thread and they work something out.

Basically this, wisdom.

I don't know Eddie is town, I know he probably didn't commit the night kill. I think he's still probably scum.

and I need to get this straight

you tracked eddie to nobody
and got amnesiac cop report that ceph is town

and you still think both are scum?

Please drop the t-bone scumread shos
It's not gonna happen

Fuck i thought I dodged. I clearly don't have time for this, I'm sorry, and let me find a replacement, I give up.

Okay I really really reaaaaally want this to get lynched right now

We already have two slots who did nothing the whole game and Tier who has done nothing since I got in. I don't want the rest of you also dissapearing

Sorry

UNVOTE:

that replace out is probably town

Meh, I'm not too sure. I think that the post at the beginning about spending scum tokens and replacing out are CONSISTENT, but not necessarily TOWN. I think she could very well be faking it and your occam story definitely doesn't work here because anytime a scum player would fake town actions they would be autotown due to your little bit of reasoning.

What do you think about this?

So. Reck is scum, and probably Ceph is his partner, judging from how he has been calling him scum with Cabd but never actually voted him.

So why is cabd town? I remember you calling him town solely because LLD was scum.

[TierShift]

I just don't see LLD hard defending her buddy Cabd like that when she knows she has pretty much nothing to support it. It looked strongly like a case of "this guy is flipping soon, let's get towncred".

So, what would you think if cabd flipped scum?

[TierShift]

Why does reck have so little votes? He is literally just coasting through the game and all my points on him have been ignored. I hope this (wis voting) is gonna change things.

[TierShift]

I feel pretty good about calling 3 scum within {cabd, reck, LLD and notscience} with maybe an outlier of T-bone.

[TierShift]

I've seen cabd-scum bail on his scumteam before. What makes a TM team different and what difference does alignment make? It's still bailing on your team.

I am townreading ceph. I remember him hitting the exact same notes as I did early game. I've liked his constant desire to move the game forward. I don't really see why anyone would scumread him (except for being surface-level, which I don't fully agree with but seems to be his playstyle) and I feel that the efforts to connect him to cabd or reck are scum-motivated.

I must agree that I haven't been paying attention to him in the slightest and mostly skipped his posts, so feel free to try and convince me of cephscum

Also, why tbone?

[TierShift]

tbone's reaction to me abandoning the LLD scumread felt like disappointment - it happens sometimes when scum think I've deathtunneled on someone and they're safe for the day.

And then I kinda see where shos is coming from, even if I don't agree that the beetlejuice is reliable. I mean, I found myself not having much to say about why tbone is town in response.

I get what you mean. Still, I feel like scum in his situation would be way less direct about stuff. He's not just posting stuff to stay under the radar, he actually feels involved at times.

ns feels town imo, and I also liked mastin's input and how close her reads were to mine at the time.

Eh, well, this does nothing for me, I guess.

I've seen cabd-scum bail on his scumteam before.

I meant his TM team. It's different doing it for a single game and different dooming your entire TM team. And note that I am talking about the early stages of TM, not now. Now it doesn't apply.

Yeah, but why is being scum and not doing shit worse than being town and not doing shit?

[TierShift]

and I feel that the efforts to connect him to cabd or reck are scum-motivated

Reck has pushed cabd all game. At some points he mentioned ceph being scum with him, but never pushed him himself. That's why I feel like he could easily be his buddy.

Yeah, but that's really easy. Why would he keep pushing his buddy as a secondary read if there is no pressure whatsoever on said buddy?

As for ceph, like I said, I feel like he has been consistently active, but what has he.done? What content has he produced? That's why I'm saying it's all surface.

Can you point me to some posts of his that you really feel show town motivation?

Not feeling like doing this right now. If you still want it later, please remind me.

[TierShift]

We already have two slots who did nothing the whole game and Tier who has done nothing since I got in. I don't want the rest of you also dissapearing

Sorry

UNVOTE:

that replace out is probably town

Meh, I'm not too sure. I think that the post at the beginning about spending scum tokens and replacing out are CONSISTENT, but not necessarily TOWN. I think she could very well be faking it and your occam story definitely doesn't work here because anytime a scum player would fake town actions they would be autotown due to your little bit of reasoning.

What do you think about this?

So. Reck is scum, and probably Ceph is his partner, judging from how he has been calling him scum with Cabd but never actually voted him.

So why is cabd town? I remember you calling him town solely because LLD was scum.

I just don't see LLD hard defending her buddy Cabd like that when she knows she has pretty much nothing to support it. It looked strongly like a case of "this guy is flipping soon, let's get towncred".

So, what would you think if cabd flipped scum?

You missed this wisdom

[TierShift]

Because as town he can just get lynched and that won't harm his game THAT much, especially given the mostly useless role he supposedly has. As scum though it hurts.

It's still letting your team down. If he's already letting his team down, his alignment plays a relatively minor part.

But well, let's just drop this.

[TierShift]

Yeah, but that's really easy. Why would he keep pushing his buddy as a secondary read if there is no pressure whatsoever on said buddy?

I guess it would be easier to hop on the "ceph is town" train.

Exactly.

[TierShift]

You missed the thing I said about lld not being town but consistent

[TierShift]

I think you misread what shos said, wis.

[TierShift]

TS, tell me WHY to drop the bone scumread. WHYYYYY is there SO FUCKING MUCH resistance to that guy.

Because he's town lurking. His reachouts are genuine and he's really not giving a fuck, not just faking that.

And why vote reck?

we've talked about this, haven't we? It's his lack of any input coupled with the constant pretense of scumhunting and AtE. He has not done anything this game, but shifts the blame onto others and other excuses. You want me to write up a case?

[TierShift]

There is also NS's own claim. I believe he is truly hated because it's too easily testable even by accident to be something to fake. The condition if true also points to being town because there is no reason to give a "except in lylo" condition to a hated scum. The whole reason for the condition is to prevent scum from being able to immediately end the game in lylo. And then I kinda fall down a rabbit hole of would the mod give the condition to a scum just because? or would scumNS fake the condition to make the claim seem town and/or to prevent getting policy lynched? my head just kinda starts spinning a little bit. Thats why I don't put TOO much emphasis on NS's claim but it does influence my read of NS ever so slightly in the town direction for it. Does this make any sense at all?

You're incorrect. Being hated cannot be easily tested, if at all. Either he's hammered when he's at L-1, which proves his claim but makes him die, or he does not die, in which case we kill him. It's like the medieval witch hunt: if she drowns when put in a river with a stone attached to her leg, she's proven not a witch but dead, if she does not drown she's a proven witch and is burned at the stake. There are no winners in testing if someone's hated.
The except lylo part is a very logical clause for town and by extension a logical one for scum, as 'also hated in lylo' makes for a great PL and the asymmetry with the town role implies scum. So no, I don't think the 'except lylo' is very telling one way or the other.

I agree with the general idea of your post that NS put in way too much work for basically nothing if he's scum. I don't think that's a superb reason for townreading him, although it's a point in his favour.

The main thing is that I haven't seen anything that definitely tells ond way or the other, which makes me feel uncomfortable. Egg is not really helping about that gut feeling. Wisdom isn't making any effort to convince me he's town either.

I guess this read can wait for at least a day but I feel like you and wisdom aren't going to last very long so I'd like some good discussion on NS while you're still here.

[TierShift]

I have two people I think are highly scummy. Obviously, if they were scum together, that'd be great. I fully plan to reevaluate and assess the gamestate once I have a flip on one of them.

No, you were actively trying to connect them earlier. Now you're acting like they're just two independent scumreads.

TS, LLD never said he wasn't caught up, so where's the argument in the last part of 1940 come from? I mean what got you to think that?

Uh, the fact that a lot of her posts simply said or asked about stuff that already had been discussed before. She also didn't mention a lot of important things, which probably was due to never reading them.

His reachouts are genuine and he's really not giving a fuck, not just faking that.

I don't agree.

Because?

I also am not seeing what you're seeing in recks latest posts.

[TierShift]

Citation:

This is an obvious misrep, he didn't say that at all.

mmmm yessss

feeeed the ceph/cabd dream dunk scumteam fantasies in my mind

oh god i am cumming

[TierShift]

Citation:

highly imply that Cephrir was scum with Cabd.

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING

[TierShift]

Here, I quoted the development of your read on ceph.

WOuld also probably vote TierShift. Would vote Cephrir as well

Would consider Cabd, Cephrir, Katsu, Rhinox, Tiershift.

Up to here he's null-scum-ish

This is an obvious misrep, he didn't say that at all.

mmmm yessss

feeeed the ceph/cabd dream dunk scumteam fantasies in my mind

oh god i am cumming

And from here on he's a full-on scumread.
So yes, they are dependent, stop bullshitting me.

[TierShift]

And then we have TierShift claiming I'm doing nothing but appeal to emotion, which makes actually no sense to me whatsoever, because I feel I've remained fairly calm and shit this game and haven't done any AtE.

That's only part of what I said, but yeah, it is true, basically. Maybe you should read your own ISO for all

the reads you fabricated

the things you forgot?

[TierShift]

Reck denying he was linking them shows he just doesn't remember doing it and points to town

I disagree that forgetting stuff makes you town. That"s preposterous. What did he deny he linked?

[TierShift]

so youre telling me im the only one who will go and check whether I was linking two players or not before replying "i never linked those two players" when I'm scum?

I don't go check as either alignment. You're probably not the only one, though?

Here, I quoted the development of your read on ceph.

WOuld also probably vote TierShift. Would vote Cephrir as well

Would consider Cabd, Cephrir, Katsu, Rhinox, Tiershift.

Up to here he's null-scum-ish

This is an obvious misrep, he didn't say that at all.

mmmm yessss

feeeed the ceph/cabd dream dunk scumteam fantasies in my mind

oh god i am cumming

And from here on he's a full-on scumread.
So yes, they are dependent, stop bullshitting me.

I see.

I was not saying they were a team and therefore connected. I do feel like I said more about Ceph/Cabd but it must've just been the circlejerk in my team topic. However, the "dream dunk scumteam fantasy" mentioned was implying that it would be a beautiful thing if my two scumreads were scum together, not that I thought they were scum together. "dunk" usually refers to thinks being easy; it would be easy if they were scum together because it would mean my two main reads were correct.

right, but you did connect them by that quote. Don't deny it.

Furthermore, your quote wall forgot a few things.

I really hope Cephrir is scum so I can kynch him

I just got home, was out all day with family. I was mobile posting all day.

Cabd is actually scum, though, because of that policy lynch + HEY YALL LETS TALK ABOUT PRIOR ROLES BECAUSE UHHH MOD META ANYTHING TO STOP ME FROM HAVING TO TALK ABOUT REAL THINGS

And Cephrir's insistence that I'm scum based on (???) and then refusal to explain/elaborate when I pressed him further is bad, too.

Like, you specifically left out these two quotes? These two quotes ALONE show that I had the reads develop independent of one another, so did you just forget? Or are you selectively quoting to fuel your little scumboner for me?

the first one was joking, you even admitted that. The second one is really early and is not a full-on scumread. The actual scumread came only after you started connecting him to cabd,I don't know what you're on.

so you're saying scum forget more than town?

I do forget more often as scum than as town, I think. As scum you're pushing bullshit. Bullshit is easier forgotten than real feelings.

[TierShift]

anyhow, Reck feels more town to me now

why though

[TierShift]

right, but you did connect them by that quote. Don't deny it.

I never denied that? I said that my scumreads developed independently and were independent.

Oh, that's right. You only said '(citation needed)' as though you were denying it. You get bonus points for messing with semantics!

If that's the case, and I "connected them by that quote", then here: TierShift & Wisdom are players in this game that I have a null-town read on right now! Now you two are connected by a quote, does that mean my read of each of you is dependent on the other as well?

No, of course not.

Fuck off. You were obviously calling ceph scum in that post for defending a buddy.

Your read on ceph only turned into a real scumread once you started talking about him together with cabd.
Stop denying that and stop discrediting me.

[TierShift]

Because he does. I cant help you if youre not seeing it

You know this thing you always do? It's annoying.

[TierShift]

CORRECT. YAY, CONGRATS TIERSHIFT, I SAID 'CITATION NEEDED' IN RESPONSE TO YOU INSINUATING MY READ ON CABD/CEPHRIR WERE INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER

jesus fucking CHRIST. this whole time ive been saying they DEVELOPED ORGANICALLY/INDEPENDENTLY. im not fucking saying i never said their name together in the same fucking sentence you pill, im saying THEY ARE NOT SCUM BECAUSE OF EACH OTHER

Yeah but then there was this post that I quoted that did show you thinking they were scum because of defending each other. Caps rage doesn't make you more correct, only more annoying.

[TierShift]

No, you're wrong, you're categorically wrong, and the entirety of the post I just fucking reiterated shows that I had posted thoughts/reasons for disliking Cephrir COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INDEPENDENT OF ANYTHING TO DO WITH CABD

Oh, you mean that scummish read from page 3 that turned into a scumread....right about when he started defending cabd?

Or is it another?

[TierShift]

Yeah but then there was this post that I quoted that did show you thinking they were scum because of defending each other. Caps rage doesn't make you more correct, only more annoying.

THE

READ

DEVELOPED

INDEPENDENTLY.

THEREFORE,

THE

READ

DOESN'T

REQUIRE

BOTH TO BE SCUM.

THE FUCKING END.

You keep saying this but please quote where in your ISO, in your opinion, the read on ceph turned into a real scumread.

[TierShift]

idgi, TierShift

what are you hoping to gain from this line of questioning? Play out the scenarios in your head.

I've shown my work where I grew the read organically. This is a fact, it developed organically, and the reasons for them being scum are not related to each other, nor am I pushing the case that their defense of each other is some grand conspiracy. This is partially because trying to draw connections between two non-flipped players is a pretty stupid exercise in futility.

Now, you take issue with my claiming that the reads happened organically, right? Why? I've shown that they did. I've shown my work, show yours.

Or, you don't take issue with that, and are instead nitpicking and arguing semantics and trying to push my buttons.

So which is it?

I'm trying to find out if you're lying about your reads or about having read your own ISO.

[TierShift]

And I honestly don't even remember why we're having this discussion

[TierShift]

Fuck this shit, reck, just telling someone their push is bad or that they haven't been townbinned is not the same as pushing them as scum later on.

[TierShift]

I'm trying to find out if you're lying about your reads or about having read your own ISO.

And I honestly don't even remember why we're having this discussion

did you just have a stroke in between two posts?

What started it, whatever.

[TierShift]

Ugh, greyice is like a male version of LLD :/

I repeat, scum miller is a viable role here. Why can't ceph have it?

I don't think it's a viable role, honestly. It's not in this setup again, I just don't believe that.

[TierShift]

Can you take a look at this, grey?

Come on, talk to me Wisdom (irony in the very player name!). Tell me what happens when Cabd flips town, because he's obvious town. Will you give me your vote to use wherever I want? Will you lynch Shos?

GREY, Ihope you can answer my questions.
Why the heck are you guys not defending cabd any stronger if you feel so sure he's town and do you need to be pressured into explaining?

First off, I don't normally explain townreads because it's anti-town. But given you clearly need aid, I'll give you some help.

{Chandra, reck, mollie} town


Who's response to my PL thing pretty much sorts him as town although I'm really fucking sad that he took it personally, and I do regret that. Ceph's town becase town Chandra is town. Reck's hardliner approach to me "lurking it out" is actually exactly what town should think if they thought my absence was intentional.

Other notes:

LLD being emotional about losing the tokens doesn't make her town this time, it just makes her (rightfully) pissed about last time.

The way copper has slow faded on me makes sense if he's using PURELY meta to sort me, but the fact that he idn't go and check if I was posting elsewhere does give me pause.

The way tier is defending me is really odd when I really have yet to do anything town whatsoever and was absent for like 8 pages.

Not relevant to this game but holy shit my scum meta has become lurking RIP golden age, deader than CLG this split.

This post doesn't come from a scum perspective. Multiple things on this post just don't.

Can't believe I have to explain this. His comments on Who pretty much only come from a town perspective, and given his actions this game, I can't see him being capable of faking it.

Further, his stance on me was unpopular at the time, and that's the key to all of this. He's been doing significantly unpopular things, that will put himself in a bad light. Do you really think he's a sufficiently bad player, that he would deliberately just avoid the thread when he DOES have time, when he's under pressure?

He's been at L-1 for 2 days in a row now, and still no panic. Nothing. What kind of shit brained logic do you have to use to assume that this kind of play comes from a scum!Cabd, let alone scum ANYONE. If his lurking doesn't have strategic benefit, what's the scum motivation behind DOING IT?

Yeah, I don't think this one post of cabds is enough of a reason to townread him.

No, I'm saying Cabd is town and you're wking him.

Why does cabd need to be town for the wk?

[TierShift]

So, if I get it right, T-bone has claimed:
1. Track from someone else on ceph-no action
2. Own RB on Eddie

Questions that may have already been answered but please do answer:
-Why eddie?
-How does this make tbone town, Iec?
-When did mollie claim?

[TierShift]

Reck are you just gonna ignore 2120?

[TierShift]

Thanks.

It made him town again when his team "knew" that mollie claimed.

I don't get this, though.

[TierShift]

But mollie did claim? I don't remember her doing so and you're saying wisdom was maybe gambiting so I don't get this anymore. Did she or did she not?

[TierShift]

I really don't get what's going on so I hope he does.

[TierShift]

Ugh, greyice is like a male version of LLD :/

I repeat, scum miller is a viable role here. Why can't ceph have it?

I don't think it's a viable role, honestly. It's not in this setup again, I just don't believe that.

If it was in the previous roll, it has lots of chances to be in this one too.

that's stupid, a super duper rare role is not gonna be repeated without a single change.

[TierShift]

fuck this why are you being so cryptic

[TierShift]

ah, found it. What does that do and how should tbone have known you don't have a night action?

[TierShift]

So you're saying that there is a possibility that T-bone heard you were day-action from his scumbuddy and thus had a pretty safe claim?

[TierShift]

Okay, here's where I'm at:
assumptions
- Scum are not fake roleblocking a confirmable action
- Scum are not going to block a super weak PR

So that means, if he's scum:
- He did not know you were a mailman at all and did roleblock you
- He did know you were a day-mailman and did not roleblock you - either reck or shos is scum in this case
I see the latter as much more likely here and that would only make reck more scum than he already is.

If he's town:
- He knew you were a claimed mailman and meant to test you overnight
- He thought an you would make the scum kill
I think he was saying t was the latter so then he needs to back up his talk and really explain why he targeted you because that was one of the dumbest things to do.

[TierShift]

it does not look like shos found out it was you before T-bone claimed. Did eddie send something which would make it obvious the message came from him or was shos notified that the message was from eddie?

[TierShift]

If he is town he is telling the truth that he didn't see mollie's claim

yeah, so it's the second option, as I thought.

[TierShift]

likely. But I can see an entire scumteam missing the claim, thinking it was not a truthful claim or believing it was not a complete claim.

[TierShift]

Now will you vote reck with me?

[TierShift]

I should really reread ceph

but yeah, fuck this shit, also stating intent to hammer.

[TierShift]

But you're right about the resistance, except it's on ceph, not cabd.

This is stupid.

ceph/tbone/reck confirmed

Why the switch?

I'm not really interested in a late ceph wagon and I think I'd actually rather lynch cabd than reck.

[TierShift]

Grey, 2235.

Hammering in 24 hours. If there are any objections, speak up.

[TierShift]

This only makes it wierder though, because Wisdom has been very shifty this game, and I find it unlike him.

That makes him town rather than scum.

[TierShift]

T-bone
Blocked
Rhinox

What the fuck

[TierShift]

I came into this day thinking that reck might actually be town...now I'm not so sure.

I'm totally okay with lynching T-bone but I'm paranoid as fuck it's something like T-bone/iec/grey because this all feels too easy.

Anyway, troubles for tomorrow. If I die, please don't forget to take a very good look at the latter two players of my proposed scumteam

[TierShift]

Grey, why did you claim?

[TierShift]

What changed your mind on Reck?

His late day posts made me feel like he genuinely just wanted the lynch and would reconsider afterwards. I don't think scum would be so vocal about that. So he was hovering at null for a bit because I wanted to see how he would come into day 3 and if he was actually going to reconsider his reads or just powerpush ceph.

Also I still don't understand why anyone would not scumread Ceph

Okay I'm really going to reread that slot soon

Also, wisdom, I do see it as possible that no one on the scumteam saw the claim or that they didn't believe it. So I don't think T-bonescum completely hinges on Reckscum

I'm also wondering why shos's vote didn't count?

[TierShift]

Okay what the actual fuck is this vote count fuckery

[TierShift]

Goddammit my score was steadily rising and now it's zero

[TierShift]

Who said something about dead people maybe communicating through the scores?

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Grey, again, why did you claim?

[TierShift]

Who said something about dead people maybe communicating through the scores?

I speculated about this, but yesterday the scores endorsed Cabdwagon and clearly didn't know anything, so.

Uhm, they didn't really specify anything, just like they didn't do anything day 1. It would be pretty ridiculous to be able to follow the scores for everyone and just win the game by that. I could see it for one player though and the scores ARE doing shit right now

I have a feeling that the scores are not a red herring but that they also aren't just a simple town/scum division.

[TierShift]

I think I wanna know what ceph knows

[TierShift]

Oh, can you link me to when you guys talked about that, please?

[TierShift]

Already found it. Not that interesting, considering shos also got points but was not on the wagon.

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Grey, I still have no idea why you would claim. At all. You don't look like a likely NK, NS didn't look like a likely lynch. You got tired of the fuckery? What fuckery?

Reck, why are grey and iec not aligned together?

[TierShift]

I can buy shosscum actually, this staticness of reads is really awkward. Going to add that to my rereadlist.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, blocking rhinox is still a scumclaim and I do not understand why you are thinking otherwise. Currently speaking to my team about it.

Can you explain why you think bone is town?

[TierShift]

Because I do not understand why scum would ask to be lynched. Also I do not understand why scum would claim something as scummy as blocking the dead.

Yes, all those are scummy things, but it makes far more sense to me that they came from a townie who's playing terribly than scum.

No, it actually doesn't. It does for mediocre or decent scum, but it makes perfect sense for actually good scum to play the townie that is too scummy to be scum.

I've played shittily and wove it away as 'well that's my towngame' before and I don't see any reason why T-bone would not be able to.

Asking to be lynched is something I've seen before from scum. It's just like self-voting: it's not a fucking towntell.

Blocking the dead is easy and he probably didn't think he would get so much trouble with it.

Look at the manner in which he claimed. It was apologetic, almost. It was like 'yeah I blocked him because he could be scum and he was under the radar so' instead of 'I actually thought he was scum'. You don't block people you don't believe are scum, especially when you have a real scumread in shos.

Which makes me think that tbone could just have claimed to have blocked shos if they were both scum so they're probably not scum together.

[TierShift]

Oh right, this is why I used not to work with you

I still feel Iece is the voice of reason even though he might be scum
Iece what do you think?

[TierShift]

Opinion on tbone reck?

[TierShift]

I think I may be on to something here. Let me know if I'm missing something important.

Grey claimed an inno on NS. And not just a random one, a confirmable one, namely that he had no action. I think it's a very, very bold assumption for scum to make that a hated player has no night action. Look at my role in the previous setup, it had multiple aspects. I don't feel like a simple hated townie would have fit in the previous setup and making the gamble looks like a dangerous thing for almost no reward.

Spoiler: previous setup, for reference

cabd- mailman

who- scum 1-shot bp miller?

[Ceph claimed miller, Katsuki flipped miller]

reck- informed townie
ceph- sui 2shot reflex doc
copp- flavor conditional cop

[Bins flipped conditional cop]

ts- macho framing bg
rhinox- limited rolecop
t-bone- flavor cop who could tell if someone killed
ns- roleblocker/roleblocker bomb

[Tbone claimed Roleblocker]

icerink- tracker

[There has been an amnesiac track result]

lld- sanity not-guaranteed cop
kats- JOAT (A bunch of investigative roles) who had to declare their target during the day
shos- lurker-doublevoter

[Cabd has a similar role]

Italics mine. Look at all the similarities

So that means:
1. Grey is not lying about his role and is likely town and so is NS
Or
2. Grey is lying about his role, is scum and does know NS has no action
Leading to
2.1 Scum have an investigative action and investigated a hated claim
2.2 Scum have knowledge of NS's role, meaning grey and NS are scum together.

Of these options, 2.1 does not look like a likely one. It has two things that are wrong with it.
1. Scum need an investigative role for it to even work
2. Scum would not investigate a hated player simply because he's more likely not to have another ability than another random person. A hated townie

is

still a role and a VT is definitely not in this game, by the looks of it.

1 and 2.2 are the only ones that make real sense to me, meaning that

Grey and NS share alignment.

I'm yet to think how this influences my view NS's skepticism towards Grey's claim and my view of T-bone calling grey's claim easy and non-revealing.

I'm thinking there might be a logical fallacy somewhere but I can't spot it

[TierShift]

Now that I think of it, T-bone's notion that Grey's claim is non-revealing is ridiculous.

[TierShift]

Let me summarise:
For NStown-GREYscum:
1. Scum must have gambled based on a hated claim
OR
2. Scum must have investigates a hated claim

For NSscum-GREYtown
1. NS must have no night actions nor access to the factional abilities
2. Be a wonky GF

I would like NS to respond to this, most of all.

[TierShift]

Yeah wis but grey didn't have anything to lose either

[TierShift]

The immediate discredit from scumT-bone makes so much sebse if they're both town

[TierShift]

I don't really feel like it's Iece at this point

I don't feel like rereading

I want to lynch T-bone

[TierShift]

What's the VC at?

[TierShift]

I think it's a very, very bold assumption for scum to make that a hated player has no night action.

I think

this

is a very, very bold assumption.

Why?

[TierShift]

Yeah I wanna lynch T-bone and be through with this day if NS isn't going to be here and respond

VOTE: tbone

[TierShift]

If it weren't for meta from someone (TS) and the fact that you are Who/mollie, I would have significant reservations about your alignment.

I'm not that good at reading wisdom (read: he is one of the players on this site I can read worst) but I don't see him as scum here

I think that arguments that start with 'there are too many of this type of role' are fallacious in theme games, simple as that. T-bone or Grey necessarily being scum because of roles is ridiculous, especially considering both of them have quite weak 'investigative' roles.

[TierShift]

Look, Iece, if scum have a RB, a rolecop and a role that fucks with investigatives, town is still underpowered, with what has been claimed so far. I do not see why you conclude there have to be weaker scum PR's because there's nothing that makes that necessary.

Your line of reasoning is absolutely fallacious as it bases its validity on knowledge of scum PR's, which you don't or at least shouldn't have, if you're town.

I don't like how you're using fallacious reasoning to connect grey and T-bone

If Iece is scum then T-bone is town, that's for sure.
Lemme think.

[TierShift]

vla until saturday

[TierShift]

Help what the fuck is going on

Like, what the actual fuck

Can someone please tell me why I'm at L-1

[TierShift]

And why this game has 153 pages?

[TierShift]

Hi reck why do you want me to get hammered while I'm away?

I'll look as to how far I can get responding to notscience

And I'll do the actual fucking reread of shos and ceph when I get home

Which is not until tomorrow so hold your fucking horses

[TierShift]

So Iece claimed tracker

Brb asking the mod something