Newbie 2044 | Game Over

[Luca Blight]

Hello there everyone, this is my first game back on the site after a long break. A heartfelt welcome to you all


VOTE: Tama the Egg Cracker

[Luca Blight]

Any reason for the green text, Tama? Makes it difficult to read your posts.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: h3llo

everyone! I'm Tama. This is my first game on Mafiascum. I've played a few Mafia games on other websites but I still consider myself a Newbie.
English is not my first language so you may find grammatical errors on my posts and I apologize in advance.

Wow I thought this was a naked vote, didn’t even notice the text at all.

Why do you avoid wagoning during RVS?

[Luca Blight]

On this site it’s hardly ever the case, if you mean quickhammering an early wagon.

Generally RVS wagons are a positive thing as they can get the game out of RVS quicker.

That said, wagoning someone who isn’t actually active yet isn’t particularly helpful.

[Luca Blight]

Maybe, but Town can also take advantage of it as well.

At some point in the game there will be townies in the spotlight - that’s the nature of the game, and is unavoidable as every possibility must be considered. The way players react to the wagon, both in terms of pushing it and holding back, can give possible clues as to their alignment. The way the targeted player reacts can be telling as well.

Would scum prefer a nice, relaxed opening where everyone is just slowly feeling their way into the game, or a fast paced opening where either they or their partner are immediately under fire, or they have to make a meaningful decision on how to approach a townie wagon that is building? I’d say usually the former.

[Luca Blight]

But I feel like Mini jumped in the wagon too easy for a SE player

I wouldn’t exactly say I jumped on the wagon I just saw the game coming out of RVS

and as a fellow town

wanted to see what reactions I could milk from you to try and sort you

This seems like a scumslip to me? Or am I reading it wrong.

VOTE: Mini

[Luca Blight]

'As a fellow Town' - seems to suggest she knows Tama is Town.

[Luca Blight]

That's like, really stretching

Why would you refer to someone you scumread as a 'fellow town'?

I don't think it's stretching to say that's a potential slip.

[Luca Blight]

Trendall's reaction to Mini has been a bit weird this game - suspects her early on, but then immediately jumps on me for calling out the slip without even trying to understand my thought-process, which leads me to think he could be her partner if she flips red.

Scum often try to distance by voting their partner when the pressure isn't too severe, but are then quick to jump off when the heat is turned up.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t really have solid reads but I want you to really look at Tama I seriously don’t have a good feeling about them

Any comments about your slip? Or are you just going to say "I am town and I can't slip" again?

I don’t really understand how it was a slip? So no I have no more comments

Err - but you said this:

I can see how you might think what I said is a scum slip but I can’t scum slip if I’m not scum lol

So did you understand it or didn't you?

[Luca Blight]

Can you explain your thought-process behind that read?

[Luca Blight]

Who are you referring to when you say ‘I doubt both mafia members would be experienced enough to play that out’, Cook?

And then why would you assume T/T instead of S/T? What are your thoughts on Mini, the slip and her reaction to pressure?

[Luca Blight]

The argument against them sounds like one that would come from mafia, so I think it's more likely that they're town.

What do you think of Mini, independent of what anyone else thinks of her?

[Luca Blight]

It's just somebody trying to make it look as though they're being towny while actually not doing anything.

So I should VOTE: ben dover123?

What's your reaction to that?

How about you explain your vote?

[Luca Blight]

I also think its more likely that mafia would be pushing Tama for something like that than that Tama themself is mafia.

Yeah it's a v sketchy argument.

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

Is this still a big deal?

[Luca Blight]

Greeting the thread with 'hello fellow Townies' is very different to this:

But I feel like Mini jumped in the wagon too easy for a SE player

I wouldn’t exactly say I jumped on the wagon I just saw the game coming out of RVS and as a fellow town wanted to see what reactions I could milk from you to try and sort you

Actively engaging with a

scumread

of yours, and saying '

as a fellow town wanted to see what reactions I could milk from you

'.

That mindset just doesn't make sense as Town but does make some sense coming from scum. What baffles me is that you can't see how this could be a

possible

slip, to the point that you assume scum must be pushing it?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, so we've established that something 'very sketchy' is no big deal, then.

[Luca Blight]

I also feel it's disingenuous how Mini's stance on the slip went from understanding it:

I can see how you might think what I said is a scum slip but I can’t scum slip if I’m not scum lol

To not understanding it, when she was later asked to explain it:

I don’t really have solid reads but I want you to really look at Tama I seriously don’t have a good feeling about them

Any comments about your slip? Or are you just going to say "I am town and I can't slip" again?

I don’t really understand how it was a slip? So no I have no more comments

[Luca Blight]

And 'v sketchy' and 'very sketchy' are two different things.

I took 'v' to stand for 'very'?

If I'm wrong then please correct me.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah it does, but there would be a difference between say 'I love you very much' and 'I love you v much', that's my point.

A difference in the level of formality, but the actual meaning is the same I'd say.

[Luca Blight]

All these posts are of Mini stirring the pot in the lead up to her vote on Tama, as well as shortly after it. It doesn't seem like genuine scumhunting to me - more like trying to stir up more doubt and using Ben as a safe vehicle to do so by riding his arguments.

Spoiler:

A 2 minute time difference should make the post pop up, if not you would have received a "You might want to review these posts before you post" popup. Either way, you should have seen Mini's vote.

That is a point at least someone is paying attention

Don't know what about this. I'm getting these popups now I'm interacting with you, but didn't get it when I posted my introduction, or if I did, I genuinely missed it.

As much as this can happen im not sure whether to believe that this is genuine or trying to make up reasons that almost sound believable

How could I know? Maybe it was because I was constantly using preview to check my post? I don't know how this works, but I'm getting the popups now.

If this really was the case after you press preview more than once the post that was posted while you were typing your post does disappear but im not sure how it could be missed i am a little bit stuck with it all to be honest

It's more of a scummy thing then a towny thing, especially the contradiction aspect.

I agree with this contradiction more likely does come from scum rather than town

So, I'd fairly assume if you are spamming preview then you would end up seeing Mini's post one time or another...

This is what i was talking about in post 62

VOTE: Tama the Egg Cracker

the timing just does not match up at all with Tama's claim.

No it really doesnt

I think we can cut Tama some slack here. It seems pretty clear that they didn't see the other vote. It's not like putting someone at two votes is putting them in any danger of dying, I don't see why mafia would be scared to do that, and I also don't see why mafia would draw attention to themselves by changing their vote and making up a story. This case is based on so much circumstantial evidence that's most likely just down to people being new to the site/interface.

I can put it aside for now but I’m not going to forget it completely it could be something that helps us really sort them later on

[Luca Blight]

“Ah she scum slipped, quick let’s use this as a chance to vote her out she is too active” - mafia thoughts

Almost guarantee that there is at least one scum on my wagon and there will be the other one waiting for me to be at E-1 and then pretend to want a claim and then go “Vanilla Townie? That’s not how they act” and hammer

Well Mafia wouldn't even be thinking 'ah she scum-slipped' if Mini was Town, would they?

And why would they want to vote her out for being too active? This makes it seem as though being active could have been a game-plan to appear town, given how aware she is of her own activity. Although Mini has posted a lot she hasn't done much other than piggyback on what Ben said about Tama.

The second paragraph is just useless WIFOM, as it's what any Mafia could and would say if they were up against the wall. It's not necessarily a scumtell in itself as desperate town do it too, but it does nothing to move me whatsoever. She is just trying to create paranoia about her wagon.

[Luca Blight]

Who are you referring to when you say ‘I doubt both mafia members would be experienced enough to play that out’, Cook?

And then why would you assume T/T instead of S/T? What are your thoughts on Mini, the slip and her reaction to pressure?

I'm guessing T/T and "doubting both mafia members are experienced enough to play it out" since this

is

a newbie game and I'm finding it unlikely both scum are SE's.

I'm thinking Mafia's lurking in the shadows. It's likely not Mini and Tama, it's more likely to be Mini

or

Tama or neither of them. This is too scummy of an argument to be S/S — Mini and Tama are just back and forthing and it's not going anywhere. Yes, we've established Tama "didn't see" something that they should have when posting, and that vote change is suspicious, but IMO, their argument appears disorganized, as if it wasn't scripted. These points feel genuine.

And on the other side, Mini's "as a fellow Town" slip and then saying "I AM GOING TO FLIP GREEN" makes me want to lim them and find out.

I was just wondering why you seemed to prefer 'T/T' to one of Mini and Tama being scum. Merely saying that Mini and Tama is probably not S/S isn't particularly insightful or helpful at this stage.

Do you have a read on anyone else: me, Martian and Trendall?

[Luca Blight]

Like if you really believe that I am now scummy vote for me.

I'll vote for who I like. I think Luca Blight is a better elimination.

Why do you scumread me?

[Luca Blight]

@Cook

: can you please give your reads.

[Luca Blight]

Why do you scumread me?

Cause in my experience people who accuse other people of 'slips' turn out to be mafia most of the time.

Can you not see why I think that was a legitimate slip?

I've caught scum slips multiple times in the past, I'll see if I can dig those games out.

[Luca Blight]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82512&p=11694122&h ... #p11694122

I assumed she meant me, because if she meant you then it could be a perspective slip (from a Nom/Quags S/S perspective). I agree it makes no sense.

Here I, as Town, accused a a player of a perspective slip. I was right about my scumread, but not about the scumteam in this instance.

[Luca Blight]

Can you not see why I think that was a legitimate slip?

I can see why you think that, it's just reaching and I don't agree with you.

I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm highlighting that if you can see why I thought it was a legitimate slip then it's not a reason to scumread me in of itself.

[Luca Blight]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81815&p=11526183&h ... #p11526183

Wow scum slip.

Another example of Town!me (correctly) pointing out a scum slip, although this one was quite obvious.

[Luca Blight]

or is there another possible explanation?

People use phrases such as 'fellow townie' all the time without necessarily thinking specifically about what the words mean.

I’ve been playing this game for seven years on and off, and I’ve never seen a townie directly refer to their top scumread as ‘a fellow town’.

[Luca Blight]

That's what I'm doing.

[Luca Blight]

I think the other scum is either Cook or one of the inactives, everyone else seems Townie to me atm.

[Luca Blight]

I suspect Cook as he's written a lot of words but said next to nothing - as though he's trying to look like he's analyzing but he really isn't. For example the whole TvT thing on Mini/Tama, while saying either of them could be scum. Just really safe play. He seems reluctant to give his reads and has to be continually prodded for them. His post timings are also a bit awkward, like he'll be active in the thread, you ask him a question, and he disappears. This could be a coincidence, but it's happened more than once already.

[Luca Blight]

Fair enough, Cook. Just try to play without fear of making mistakes - the more you hold back and play it safe the more you'll be scumread for it, as that's the kind of behavior scum often exhibit.

I certainly wouldn't scumread you purely for being wrong about your reads, as that can happen to anyone.

[Luca Blight]

Sorry to see you go, Ben. Hope everything works out well for you.

[Luca Blight]

Have the two inactives even confirmed? If not they should just be replaced already.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, fair enough.

[Luca Blight]

Is that L-1? Just to be safe

UNVOTE:

Until the replacements are here at least.

[Luca Blight]

I have to say that is weird timing for the L-1 vote, Cook, especially given Mini is a town read of yours and that we’re awaiting multiple replacements.

[Luca Blight]

Mini, do you have anything to offer? What are your reads?

[Luca Blight]

Why?

[Luca Blight]

I’ve already claimed but here it is again for you

I am a Vanilla Townie

Who asked you to claim again?

[Luca Blight]

To clarify, do you now think that one of Ben and Tama is scum?

What’s your read on Mini?

[Luca Blight]

Btw posting an unofficial VC isn’t scummy - I’ve seen it many times coming from both alignments. It’s pretty much inevitable in games where the mod doesn’t update the VC very often.

[Luca Blight]

Arguing and getting pent up isn’t scummy either - the amount of inane TvT fights I’ve seen on this site is ridiculous. I’ve been involved in them myself in the past, but have learnt my lesson as they are useless and normally ego-driven.

Please quote exactly what you think is scummy about what Ben said.

[Luca Blight]

Do you have anything else to offer?

[Luca Blight]

I get the impression that Mini is deliberately stalling for time.

[Luca Blight]

Welcome to the game

[Luca Blight]

Do you have any previous experience playing Mafia?

[Luca Blight]

Yeah it seems unhealthy to just sit and let the game stall out like it seems to be currently.

Do you have any thoughts on the recent Trendall v HWS argument?

[Luca Blight]

Hewhoswims voted for Trendall at the top of the page.

[Luca Blight]

Probably best you wait until you can catch-up yourself, so you can view what happened with a fresh pair of eyes.

[Luca Blight]

I didn’t imply I was always right - even on one of the examples I gave I said I was right about the scumread but wrong about the slip, which would have solved the scum team in that game. The point I was making with the other example was that scum can and do slip up in games. I’m sure there’s been other examples that I can’t recall off the top of my head.

[Luca Blight]

I’ll have to take an aspirin in preparation for reading that bright yellow text.

[Luca Blight]

Mini, do you realise that half of the posts you’re commenting on in the ‘Ben Dover’ section aren’t from Ben Dover?

[Luca Blight]

Mini, do you still scumread Tama?

[Luca Blight]

Why did you change your mind on Tama? Can you talk me through your progression on that read.

[Luca Blight]

Why did you change your mind on Tama? Can you talk me through your progression on that read.

Well in the moment I thought it was something scummy but when so many people said it’s not AI I went back and looked at a few newbie games and saw it happens as either alignment so I was basically voting a slot for I guess you could say no reason

Can you link the newbie games you checked?

[Luca Blight]

Were they recent games or did you have to look deeper for them?

[Luca Blight]

@Cook

To clarify, do you now think that one of Ben and Tama is scum?

What’s your read on Mini?

Btw posting an unofficial VC isn’t scummy - I’ve seen it many times coming from both alignments. It’s pretty much inevitable in games where the mod doesn’t update the VC very often.

Arguing and getting pent up isn’t scummy either - the amount of inane TvT fights I’ve seen on this site is ridiculous. I’ve been involved in them myself in the past, but have learnt my lesson as they are useless and normally ego-driven.

Please quote exactly what you think is scummy about what Ben said.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I’m about to sleep so I’ll reply to that later. Please explain your stance on Mini in the meantime.

[Luca Blight]

Cook, were you referring to me or Ben Dover with the suggestion of ‘LAMIST’?

[Luca Blight]

I don't really like summing up the game for replacements as I think it's always better for them to go through and see what happened for themselves, but I'll try and pick out a few key events.

[Luca Blight]

From page 2: Ben Dover votes Tama for switching RVS votes early, which evolved into it being about whether of not Tama got a pedit message in between those votes. This got the game out of RVS

Mini piggybacked on Ben's argument, and referred to Tama, her main scumread, as 'a fellow town', which I read as a scum-slip. Mini got to L-1 and claimed VT.

Trendall disagreed with me and voted me for it, until I pointed out I've found scum slips in previous town games of mine. Ben and Trendall then had an argument based on an unnoficial VC that Ben gave, that Trendall found scummy. Cook took sides with Trendall during this argument.

Ben then replaced out due to IRL issues, his replacement Hewhoswims argued with Trendall a bit more about the same kind of stuff, and that's kind of where we're at - just awaiting more content from the replacements, Cook and Mini.

[Luca Blight]

They’re here but they haven’t contributed anything yet. We need content from them, as well as Cook (and Mini, if she hasn’t already given up) before we can consider ending the day.

[Luca Blight]

What’s your reasoning, Fredrick?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, what’s your reasoning for your suspicions of Tama/HeWhoSwims?

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, I was more referring to the two newcomers rather than you with that comment so no worries.

[Luca Blight]

That’s an interesting take. What makes you think that it was fake?

[Luca Blight]

I don’t think posting an unofficial VC is LAMISTing, but maybe his play in general was a bit? It’s not something I find particularly compelling right now as it’s easy to look that way when you’re the one trying to promote action in the game.

Please explain your stance on Mini.

[Luca Blight]

I feel like it’s just Cook/Mini tbh, although that seems way too easy.

[Luca Blight]

Maybe, but not always. I’ve seen Mafia teams that have gone all out in a 1v1 death match against each other on D1, I also remember seeing a Mafia team of 3 all pushing the same wagon D1. You can’t draw conclusions based on these things as it’s pure WIFOM.

I find Mini and Cook individually suspicious, and their stances towards each other strange.

[Luca Blight]

Games are not usually so easily solved however, so it’s always best to keep an open mind and keep questioning your own reads. Never lock someone 100% as Town without good reason, as you’ll get burned eventually.

I still don’t have a read on a few slots in this game at any rate.

[Luca Blight]

Do you really need a laptop to check a few games and send a few links? It’s a shame it’s taken so long, as if you’d just sent the links in question quickly and without fuss then it would have backed up your reason for changing your read on Tama.

I just think that if I’d reviewed some newbie games and found something relevant to this game, and someone later asked me to share those games, that I’d be able to dig them out pretty quickly. It again leads me to think Mini is not being honest and is stalling for time.

[Luca Blight]

At least she hasn’t entirely ignored the matter, though. I’m still remaining open minded and want to see those games you’re talking about, but of course it wouldn’t be worth as much in terms of validating your story as it would have been had you posted them earlier.

Pedit: I’m terrible posting on my phone (which is how I normally post) but I still don’t find it too hard to quickly find certain games that I know about. I also asked about whether they were old or recent games and you gave the vaguest answer imaginable, so that also didn’t help.

[Luca Blight]

It again leads me to think Mini is not being honest and is stalling for time.

Also what reasons would I have to lie???

Because you wanted a convenient reason to stop scumreading Tama, who is now generally townread?

It’s an important distinction, because I don’t think Town would lie about something like this but scum might.

[Luca Blight]

I can’t remember exactly what numbers they were so I’m sorry I will definitely link them when I get a chance

Do you remember anything about them? The Mod? Any of the players involved? Anything roughly that was said?

[Luca Blight]

It again leads me to think Mini is not being honest and is stalling for time.

Also what reasons would I have to lie???

Because you wanted a convenient reason to stop scumreading Tama, who is now generally townread?

It’s an important distinction, because I don’t think Town would lie about something like this but scum might.

So you are trying to find reasons to scum read me?

No? I’m trying to verify if you’re telling the truth or not.

[Luca Blight]

Like, if you just sent the links/gave the info I’m looking for then it might actually help me not scumread you.

[Luca Blight]

So is the answer ‘no’ that you can’t remember anything about them at all?

[Luca Blight]

Do you remember how many games you found that displayed similar behavior to Tama’s opening in his game?

[Luca Blight]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84630

That’s not the one I was talking about but on page one there is a player who votes and then invited within their next post and they turned out to be town

Are you talking about Town Looter?

His was clearly a joke, so it’s not really comparable to Tama, who changed because they didn’t want to wagon anyone on RVS.

[Luca Blight]

I have to get ready for work now, I’ll check again in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

I still want to see them, especially the Micc one.

[Luca Blight]

That’s an interesting take. What makes you think that it was fake?

I just think it is.

I feel like it’s just Cook/Mini tbh, although that seems way too easy.

Well, why do you think so?

I believe you may have sidelined this post, Luca Blight.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

L-2

I’ve already said that I suspect them both individually and their stances on each other are strange. I’ll elaborate further when I’m off work.

I think you sidelined my question too, let me find it.

[Luca Blight]

Do you really need a laptop to check a few games and send a few links? It’s a shame it’s taken so long, as if you’d just sent the links in question quickly and without fuss then it would have backed up your reason for changing your read on Tama.

...

Some people are just not as good with their devices, Luca Blight.

Oh wow, I thought this post was from Mini. It seems I really did sideline you there.

[Luca Blight]

If you could give more of an explanation as to why Tama/Ben Dover’s interaction was fake then that would be helpful, as I don’t see it.

[Luca Blight]

You answered it in that very post, so I was wrong about you sidelining it.

[Luca Blight]

I have new suspects now.

VOTE: Lunar Martian

Reasons are always welcome.

[Luca Blight]

Lunar gives me Town vibes generally, although I’d like to know what changed from being very suspicious of me in 229 to believing I’m Town in 269?

[Luca Blight]

Polaris, are you close to catching up?

[Luca Blight]

Cook

still

hasn't explained his stance on Mini.

I don’t think posting an unofficial VC is LAMISTing, but maybe his play in general was a bit? It’s not something I find particularly compelling right now as it’s easy to look that way when you’re the one trying to promote action in the game.

Please explain your stance on Mini

.

VOTE: Cook

@Mod

: Polaris is due a prod.

[Luca Blight]

I still want to see them, especially the Micc one.

@Mini

[Luca Blight]

But I still want to see it.

[Luca Blight]

It’s not like you’re contributing anything else anyway, so the least you can do is post that game so I can see if you were lying or not.

[Luca Blight]

I think it’s pretty clear either Mini or Cook needs to go today.

It sucks that the Polaris slot hasn’t contributed anything, but it’s possible they’ve just flaked out of the game. Hopefully we’ll see something from that slot before this day is out, but I’m losing hope on that.

Pedit:

VOTE: Mini

[Luca Blight]

Like, the very least you can do right now is post a link to that game to back up what you said. If you can’t even do that then there is literally no reason for me to think you’re Town.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah go on vote me watch me flip town then what are you going to do?

At least we’d have got rid of a VT who brings less nothing to the game.

I say less than nothing, as you’re not even willing to post evidence that could help me read you correctly, if you’re Town.

[Luca Blight]

It it’s literally got nothing to with this game now that I realise it’s not the same situation so why should I? And why would posting a game link change your read on me? If one small thing like that will change your read then your read obviously isn’t very solid at all

I don’t care it’s not 100% related, I want to see if you were telling the truth or were just inventing some BS in the moment.

It wouldn’t make me TR you necessarily, but it wouldn’t take a lot for me to vote Cook instead who is also avoiding my questions.

[Luca Blight]

How many times do I have to say I don’t care if it’s not the same situation?

I just want to see if this game exists.

[Luca Blight]

If you can’t even do that then there is literally no reason for me to think you’re Town.

It wouldn’t make me TR you necessarily,

Contradiction much?

There no contradiction - it might help me read you as Town to some extent, but not necessarily. It would at least help me know if you’re blatantly lying about this or not.

If you were telling the truth you’d have just posted it by now.

[Luca Blight]

As I said - you’re doing nothing that resembles town behavior, so if you can’t even prove you’re not lying by simply posting that link, which is an easy thing to do if you’re telling the truth, then there is no reason to believe you’re Town.

[Luca Blight]

She is lying:

So is the answer ‘no’ that you can’t remember anything about them at all?

All I remember is Micc was one mod of a game I looked at where the mafia was a roleblocker and a goon

The game she just posted has two goons.

That’s now two scum slips.

[Luca Blight]

Literally the only info you provided about the game is blatantly wrong.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve given you a very fair chance to at least prove what you were saying was true, but all you’ve done is stall and then post a game that doesn’t match the one you described.

My vote is locked.

[Luca Blight]

What player in that game were you referring to?

[Luca Blight]

What are your current reads?

[Luca Blight]

I don't want to lynch Trendall today.

I'm only interested in lynching Mini or Cook. We will have to compromise at some point.

[Luca Blight]

What are your current reads?

Is this directed at me?

Yes.

[Luca Blight]

That’s good to hear, Polaris. I look forward to your catch up.

[Luca Blight]

Nice one, Polaris.

I like your point about HeWhoSwims, I can increasingly see that slot being scum to be honest.

Polaris, Trendall, Tama and Lunar Town.

Scum is among HeWhoSwims, Mini, Cook and Fred. I feel pretty confident about this.

[Luca Blight]

It could really come from either, but probably more likely scum as Town would perhaps realise how futile saying ‘I’m not scum’ over and over is, whereas scum might just use AtE as a conscious tactic.

I think Mini Just has to go regardless at this point. Even if she is Town she is not helping the cause, and is never going to be NK. This is the sort of slot that needs eliminating before lylo.

[Luca Blight]

If I were going to take a hero vig shot at this point I’d probably go for HeWhoSwims, but the sensible thing to do is get rid of Mini, especially as she has claimed VT.

[Luca Blight]

Nice one, Polaris.

I like your point about HeWhoSwims, I can increasingly see that slot being scum to be honest.

Polaris, Trendall, Tama and Lunar Town.

Scum is among HeWhoSwims, Mini, Cook and Fred. I feel pretty confident about this.

I still feel pretty good about this.

If Mini flips green then look at HeWhoSwims, Cook and Fred Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Merry Christmas everyone.

I’m still feeling pretty confident about my reads. Scum is in [HeWhoSwims, Cook, Fred].

[Luca Blight]

To clarify, do you now think that one of Ben and Tama is scum?

What’s your read on Mini?

Mini is almost certainly Town, but I'm a bit thrown off by this comment:
.

This seems like a TMI read. I prodded and prodded Cook to explain why he was so sure Mini was Town but he continually avoided the question.

[Luca Blight]

I really don’t know what to make of Fred. Their general posting style is erratic and it’s difficult to follow their train of thought. I don’t really get the impression they’re genuinely scumhunting.

I can’t really tell which combination of [HeWhoSwims, Fred, Cook] are scum, it really could be any two of them. My strongest gut read would be HeWhoSwims, but it’s really hard to say which one his partner is.

Trendall could have an outside chance of being scum I guess. I’ll have to double check his ISO, but I’d be very surprised if there was more than one Town in the scum pile I outlined above.

[Luca Blight]

Luca Blight, Lunar Martian and Polaris, detail how my voting patterns make me likely to be mafia.

I don’t know man, it’s more that I can’t follow your train of thought and can’t relate to your reads, maybe it’s just a play style thing.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: No Elimination

I don’t get why you’d want to do this right now. We’re much better off getting rid of one of the suspect slots.

[Luca Blight]

@Polaris: I’ll answer your question in a bit; I’ll need to ISO Trendall and Lunar again.

[Luca Blight]

I’m starting to wonder if there was no kill because scum weren’t online during the night.

HeWhoSwims/Cook could easily be the scum team.

[Luca Blight]

Trendall voted No-elim, not Polaris.

[Luca Blight]

HeWhoSwims/Fred seems to make more sense than Cook/HeWhoSwims based on interactions at a glance.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

This is the surest bet to hit scum I feel.

[Luca Blight]

Cook, you never explained why you thought Mini was almost certainly Town D1. You keep avoiding key questions.

[Luca Blight]

We don’t, it’s just a possibility that crossed my mind. I’m not basing my reads off of it.

[Luca Blight]

What are you talking about? You’re not at L-1.

[Luca Blight]

Can you answer the question about Mini?

[Luca Blight]

Yes, that's possible, Cook.

I'm gonna try and put my thoughts together soon.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, there’s literally no good reason to no-elim today.

[Luca Blight]

I’m pretty sure Tama is Town, but I hope they stick around and post more.

I’ve been suffering from apathy since the start of day 2 tbh. I’m pretty sure there’s two scum in HWS, Cook and Fred, but I’m struggling to choose between them. I’m not 100% on Trendall but don’t want to consider elim’ing there today.

[Luca Blight]

I might actually be on board with a no-elim here, as there’s currently no stand out candidate for elim.

It gives our pr’s another night to get into, and means scum have to try to put the game back to an odd number, which increases the chance of hitting scum.

VOTE: no-elim

[Luca Blight]

In case I die during the night, I’d suggest eliminating in this order: HWS, Cook, Fred, Trendall.

Tama is my biggest TR, followed closely by Polaris.

Pretty sure Lunar is Town as their D1 play seemed natural.

[Luca Blight]

I think even if I die then it’s helpful, as if I were alive later into the game it could cause paranoia.

There are at least two conftowns out there; the protective as well as the person they healed. There could well be an investigative as well.

Yes there’s a chance a pr could be hit, but there’s also a chance their kill could fail again, or some incriminating evidence could be acquired.

I’m usually against no-elims unless absolutely necessary, but I don’t know who to eliminate here. I feel like eliminating HWS, but I can’t say I have compelling reasons to offer, it’s more of a gut feeling.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

Fred, join me?

[Luca Blight]

Trendall seems to always play the same way, I don’t know how to read them.

[Luca Blight]

I TR Ben a bit earlier, but looking back his 1v1 with Trendall looks pretty bad on him, as he seems overly self-conscious. He then suddenly replaces out, which I thought was NAI, but he's continued to be very active onsite since then.

HeWhoSwims has been very underwhelming since replacing in, and I get the impression he's capable of a lot more.

[Luca Blight]

Tonally HeWhoSwims seems like he's trying to be friendly in a buddying sort of way, which has pinged me numerous times.

[Luca Blight]

I realize these arguments aren't too compelling, but I'm trying to express what is essentially a gut scumread.

[Luca Blight]

Well, he said he made them more transparent when asked, so I'm not sure I'd particularly call that a lie.

The game-state seems to suggest Fred could be Town. This is a really easy game-state for scum, because everyone is apathetic, and I see little resistance to Fred's elimination, even from himself.

[Luca Blight]

Fred, HeWhoSwims and Cook all look surface-level scummy. Looking at Trendall's meta, they seem to always play in a similar fashion. I can only choose between them by gut.

I feel as though HeWhoSwims has made more of an active effort not to look scummy than Fred/Cook/Trendall, and I feel as though he is capable of doing a lot more than he has done.

People generally seem to trust I'm Town, so I'd appreciate a bit of support with this wagon.

[Luca Blight]

Well, I've tried above. I've stated why I SR them, and I've admitted it isn't a particularly compelling case, but it's more of a gut read.

I feel like he has coasted, tried to appease and just made half-decent looking posts without really doing much. He is staying in the background and has no intensity to his game. I feel as though this is AI coming from this player - I believe as Town he'd be rallying the troops and just doing a lot more than he's doing.

Fred and Cook look more surface-level scummy, but often scum are the ones who try to make their posts look polished without getting their hands dirty, which is what I believe HeWhoSwims is doing here.

[Luca Blight]

This is a low-activity game so 2 days isn't a long time.

Let's get this wagon moving and get a claim.

[Luca Blight]

This is where, if you were Town, I’d expect you to be proactive in some way. The day is coming to a close, you have suspicions (albeit not strong SR’s) and yet are not voting anyone or pushing anything. It’s like you’re waiting for Town to bury itself.

[Luca Blight]

Based on interactions Lunar would be the most likely partner for HWS. If HWS flips red I need to re-evaluate my TR on Lunar.

I no longer think Fred/HWS is likely S/S, and Fred is probably just Town based on the gamestate.

Trendall and Cook would have had some weird interactions with Ben for S/S, but I won’t rule them out yet.

[Luca Blight]

Cook, please vote HeWhoSwims.

[Luca Blight]

I think you’re Town, Fred and Polaris were quick to join the wagon on HWS, while Lunar held back.

It could be any or Lunar/Cook/Trendall, but based on surface level interaction Lunar seems the most likely. I’ll go into more depth tomorrow if HWS flips red and if I’m still alive.

[Luca Blight]

Why aren’t you using the same line of reasoning to suppose Fred is Town?

Look at how the gamestate has been for the majority of this day, until I put together a push on HeWhoSwims? In a game full of apathy, Fred was drifting towards being eliminated with absolutely no pushback, even from himself. I put forward the idea of No-elim and he maintained we should elim, even though his wagon was by far the biggest. He gave his preferred options while being accepting of his own elimination. This isn’t how scum behaves in this situation.

[Luca Blight]

The only reason Fred didn’t get eliminated was because I intervened; everyone else was seemingly fine with it. I don’t believe scum would behave like that in this game state - there would be absolutely no reason to, when there’s numerous suspect slots in the game that could be hard-pushed.

I’ll give some examples of what I mean in a bit.

[Luca Blight]

Less than 24 hours; let’s get a hammer.

[Luca Blight]

Well I’ve given my reasons in a bit more detail. You’re a dubious slot, and given your VT claim I’m more than happy to go ahead with this elimination.

There is literally no reason to no-eliminate now; the chances of scum hitting a Town pr/protected Town are the same either way, and we need to reduce the PoE.

[Luca Blight]

Just hammer, there’s 12 hours left.

[Luca Blight]

Disappointing flip, but we’re still in decent shape here; two suspect slots out of the picture, Pr/s still alive, and presumably a couple of players confirmed by being saved by the protective.

If the protective has protected two different players, and if we have an investigative with some decent info then we could solve this today.

[Luca Blight]

If there’s an investigative with some good info then they should probably come forward, otherwise no.

[Luca Blight]

Good info could be a guilty, or clearing at least one of the suspect slots in the game.

[Luca Blight]

What about Cook @Lunar?

[Luca Blight]

Tama, why have you been so quiet since D1 ended? What are your reads?

[Luca Blight]

What about me?

Some thoughts on the game would be good.

[Luca Blight]

Right now Cook is my preference for the elimination.

[Luca Blight]

I’ll do more analysis when I’m on a laptop, but right now I think Cook/Trendall is the most likely scum team.

[Luca Blight]

This is based on PoE and also their interactions.

Pretty sure Tama is Town (although I wish they’d post more) and Polaris’ catch-up post D1 seemed really townie.

Lunar seemed townie D1 but I’m not 100% on this one. Fred seems Town based on the D2 game state.

That leaves Trendall and Cook.

If anyone has any info to support this/help with this PoE then you should consider revealing it, as I feel the game is nearly solvable.

[Luca Blight]

Can someone summarise what the issues ppl have with Cook are?

Perhaps you could read his ISO and give your own thoughts on him first.

[Luca Blight]

Well that’s pretty poor reasoning as it could easily have been a slip. It’s more indicative of scum to have absolutely no suspicion of it whatsoever, as they already knew Mini’s alignment. Cook’s reaction to this actually was really weird, though, for another reason, which I’ll get to shortly.

VOTE: Cook

[Luca Blight]

Yes.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I look forward to it.

[Luca Blight]

Why Trendall over Cook?

[Luca Blight]

It's mainly based on PoE as I said above, but also suggested by few interactions, such as when Cook sided with Trendall over Ben in their D1 argument.

I'm not really into pre-flip associations though, so I won't go too deep into that right now. Cook is the best bet to hit scum, imo.

[Luca Blight]

Well we’re gonna have to agree on a wagon here. Would you be willing to vote for Cook?

[Luca Blight]

I agree with Polaris's assessment so far.

And, Tama, I didn't defend myself because:

1. I was thinking that Luca was for some reason trying to fish for my reaction to getting voted.

2. By coming out nice and strong if he's wrong and now we're on MeLo, it pushes suspicion away from himself (Luca).

3. Why are you arguing this point? Like where is this coming from?

None of this makes any sense to me. I think you've misunderstood something along the way. I wasn't fishing for your reaction to getting voted, as no-one had even voted for you at that stage. I was questioning why Lunar preferred eliminating Fred over you.

And we're not in MeLo.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, I thought you were saying we're in MeLo now.

What are your thoughts, Cook?

Pedit: I think you've misunderstood again. Trendall and Fred are talking about D2, not Today.

[Luca Blight]

I am the Doctor.

Cook is now confirmed scum.

[Luca Blight]

I can confirm that I healed Tama both nights, so they are town.

[Luca Blight]

Cook is now confirmed scum.

Why are they 'confirmed'?

Try reading.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not sure if Trendall is being deliberately obtuse here or is just scum, but I'll say it again.

I CC Cook. I am the Doctor

I targeted Tama both nights, so they are Town.

[Luca Blight]

Cook obviously didn't think I was the Doctor. He thought he might win a 1v1 against someone else.

It shouldn't be hard to see that I wouldn't CC this here as scum. That would be incredibly stupid.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, it seems my Cook/Trendall theory was correct after all. There's no way they're this obtuse.

[Luca Blight]

You mean when he called Cook confirmed scum? They're talking from their POV

Yes, and it should be pretty obvious generally. It would be stupid to immediately CC that here as scum, it makes no sense.

Yeah if that's what they were going for they could have said 'Cook is confirmed from my point of view' and then I'd eliminate them anyway for stating the obvious.

Keep clutching those straws.

[Luca Blight]

I am by far the most TR player here, and even Cook's claim heavily supports me being Town as he 'targeted' me N1.

Why would I not just kill Cook and take the resulting towncred instead of dooming myself to being eliminated after he flips green?

It's nonsensical.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not really sure that Trendall and Cook are the exact team. What would be the point of Trendall defending Cook/going against Luca right now? It would just out them as the scum team and get rid of their chances of winning.

Because they aren't winning anyway if Cook is eliminated here, and I had already associated them as scum.

If he got me eliminated first, then perhaps in MeLo Trendall could manage to get someone like Fred eliminated instead.

[Luca Blight]

I had a whole thing typed up but my laptop died and I lost it.

Here's the gist:

Luca's town.

I'm Doctor, which means we have either Cop or Tracker, and Roleblocker or Rolecop. I think Rolecop personally. Look for other people who seem to be sure of the other PR.

Healed Luca N1, since they were the towniest

and it would've likely benefited Mafia to kill them. Mafia still might have not killed.

Healed Tama N2 on a hunch, and look! Mafia didn't get a kill last night. Therefore,

Tama is Town.

I also had a bunch of math on the game done and it pretty much amounts to scum have like a 5% chance of not getting a kill if we miselim and a 20% chance of hitting me but that's all thrown out the window now because I'm a bullet magnet.

This wagon has reached its final destination. Disembarking is a good idea or I will scumread you for the rest of my incredibly short life.

Scum will try to CC me. Ignore them for a day, and then when Mafia kills me tomorrow you can, you know, feel free to lim that CC.

From the perspective that Cook is the Doctor and I'm scum, I'd have already won after this post. It basically would have given me a load more towncred, and paved the way to kill Tama after killing Cook and still not arouse suspicion.

Instead Trendall reckons I'd CC and doom myself to elimination Tomorrow as scum here? He's either scum or clueless.

[Luca Blight]

There's no point in the Tracker claiming until Tomorrow as I'm dying tonight anyway.

[Luca Blight]

'Doom myself to elimination' is again a disingenuous wording here. It's perfectly legitimate for a mafia member to sacrifice themselves in order to put the team overall in a better position. Similar to how sacrificing a piece in chess is not necessarily the boneheaded move that it looks like.

But as I literally just pointed out above, sacrificing myself as scum would put me in a significantly worse position.

That should be obvious.

[Luca Blight]

This is a pointless discussion. Any reasonable person can see I wouldn't CC there as scum. End of.

And there is literally no reason to believe Cook over me in this instance. The fact I CC'd so fast (within 4 mins) should be another clue that I'm being honest.

[Luca Blight]

I, the confirmed Town Doctor

What do you think about this, Trendall?

[Luca Blight]

At least you didn't try to fake a townslip there. I have some respect for that.

[Luca Blight]

Often scum who are fake-hammered will pretend they believe they were hammered and say 'I was Town, eliminate this player Tomorrow' or something like that.

That's one of the reasons I really dislike reaction testing in Mafia.

[Luca Blight]

I’m pretty sure Tama is Town, but I hope they stick around and post more.

I’ve been suffering from apathy since the start of day 2 tbh. I’m pretty sure there’s two scum in HWS, Cook and Fred, but I’m struggling to choose between them. I’m not 100% on Trendall but don’t want to consider elim’ing there today.

In case I die during the night, I’d suggest eliminating in this order: HWS, Cook, Fred, Trendall.

Tama is my biggest TR

, followed closely by Polaris.

Pretty sure Lunar is Town as their D1 play seemed natural.

These were my D2 crumbs that I'd protected Tama, in case I'd later be NK.

[Luca Blight]

Well done guys!

Sorry WHS, I feel bad for eliminating you as you were being so nice, but I incorrectly read it as buddying

Lunar played a really decent scum game I thought. I didn’t suspect them much at all.

Polaris coming in and obvtowning from their first meaningful post was vital, so I was grateful for that

[Luca Blight]

I think our big issue was that Night 1 happened over the holidays and neither of us submitted any actions. It was fun anyway though! I thought we played OK, but a few errors and then bad night actions/submissions hurt us.

Ah, so my theory was correct.

[Luca Blight]

A N1 kill on Luca would've drastically altered the course of the game. Lunar probably would have eventually led the town.

Did you realise I was the Doctor when you made your fakeclaim?

[Luca Blight]

I just realised that this is Hayker's first game in like 8 years, so perhaps they're a bit rusty/out of touch.

[Luca Blight]

I just realised that this is Hayker's first game in like 8 years, so perhaps they're a bit rusty/out of touch.

Oops. wrong thread.