Newbie 2047: Eggskalon - Game Over

[catboi]

VOTE: muh316

Too eager to get the first post, must be mafia~

Hi everybody!!! Goodluck..!
How do I vote? LOL

With bold or vote tags, like so:

Code: Select all

[b]vote: catboi[/b]
[vote]catboi[/vote]
[v]catboi[/v]

( ﾉ^ω^)ﾉﾟ

[catboi]

muh316
Goon

marcistar
Townie

catboi
Mafia Scum

Paopao
Townie

why are the names like this? are they based on our roles?

They're titles based on post count. Lol. Would be pretty pointless if the board spoiled the game for everyone~ (´-ω-`)

[catboi]

So I’m just gonna throw this out there-
One of our SE players is acting Jester instead of helpful.
I’m not sure if that’s normal around here but...?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

He does that every game. It's his standard intro.

Quick RQS

1. Approximately how many games of FM have you played?
(Here or elsewhere included, rough estimate)

2. What time zone are you from?
(Helpful for coming together as town when needed)

3. What’s your favorite animal?
(This one’s just for fun kek)

1. Maybe 25? Most of them a long time ago here, a few this year. I was pretty bad in most of them. A thousand or so games of chat mafia.
2. EST
3. Cats~ ω(=＾・＾=)ω
(surprising, right?)

[catboi]

I want to believe 12 was a legitimate question from a town player with pure intentions, and not something an inexperienced player would come up with on the spot as a trick to try to get townread.

[catboi]

Why not vote paopao if his line seemed overly self aware to you?

[catboi]

Lol, haha, I get it, probably better not to right now, actually

[catboi]

I want to believe 12 was a legitimate question from a town player with pure intentions, and not something an inexperienced player would come up with on the spot as a trick to try to get townread.

I was thinking the same thing.

muh316, I agree with you on marcistar looking like she's rolefishing. I've been trying to figure out whether it's intentional or not. There was also the post she made where she was asking if the titles were the roles, which could easily make a newer player say something about their role. Nice catch with the contradiction.

Lol, haha, I get it, probably better not to right now, actually

It's not helping the town if you're hiding your thoughts.

I see catboi's post as damage prevention. Think about what Ninetails said and you'll see it goes along with your criticism of marci.

If I had to call a scumteam right now, I'd call it as marcistar and Ninetails. That's just a guess that's way too early though. I already thought marcistar looked scummy, but then Ninetails mentioning that his vote on marci was just an RVS vote made me think it could be distancing.
This is all very early speculation and I find it hard to believe that both scumplayers would try rolefishing.

I have a soft-town read on catboi, but that's just gut.

How do you go from one of these to the other here? This is just blatant opportunism, and I really don't like the reasoning. The idea that a newbie scum player is going to immediately attempt to rolefish is absurd, that's not a strategy most newer scum players are aware of, let alone one that most would attempt to do early. This is ascribing a buzzword wikitell to what is much more likely confused newbie town. Further, I don't really buy seeing a marci/ninetales team at all, newbscum rarely interact the way those two have. Most newbie scum tend to be very cautious about interacting with their partner, and there's none of that in how they speak to each other. I don't like this post at all.

VOTE: Chumbo

[catboi]

i really just didnt understand what ninetales was saying, but if me not understanding something and asking about it seems scummy to u guys just vote me out.

Aww, don't be that way! You should never give up, especially early on day 1. There's a lot of time to talk things over and clear things up, you should never feel like getting voted out is inevitable. Always fight back and keep trying to find the mafia.

Anyway, my belief in marci-town is reaffirmed, I absolutely think she's a poor vote.

@muh & LoneMarkhor:

no response to 78 addressing your concern with the apparent contradiction?

[catboi]

Anyway, my belief in marci-town is reaffirmed, I absolutely think she's a poor vote.

I have a really hard time seeing this. Too much Appeal to emotion and in a very defeatist way.

Townies appeal to emotion and get defeatist all the time. I find the statements from her far more likely to be defeatist newb-town than scum. You say you've played on MU but never seen a town player act defeatist?

Marcistar is acting like she's never played mafia before,even though she said that she had played it before.

why say this then vote someone else.

Suses me, but votes marcistar

Anyways, I personally don't think Not_Mafia is scum, or atleast is less scummy (idk what theyre doing lol) than Marcistar. I would rather vote someone other then these two, (catboi/ninetales) but I feel like if we vote of Marcistar, it would clear up a lot that has been happening. Though I'm confused why Not_Mafia is voting themselves?

In my opinion, if Marcistar comes up Maf:
Catboi is her partner.

If Marcistar comes up town:
Catboi and Ninetales are together. (I personally belive those two are the most scummy)

But I'm not certain on this yet, I feel like they're most likely the scum team if Marcistar isn't mafia

VOTE: Marcistar

Based on what? Why vote Marci at all?

[catboi]

That's E-1 on marci btw, please, no one hammer (looking at you, Not_Mafia)

[catboi]

Based on what? (answering)

If marcistar does end up coming up as scum, I believe that you are the most likely her partner, as you are the only person hard defending her, or really defending her in general. There is no one, from what I have read that has defended marcistar other than you.

My thoughts on Ninetales will change if Marcistar does end up coming scum, as they were the first person to vote her. (Though it could be a big brain mafia move, and they voted their partner to remove sus off themselves if Marcistar does end up coming up as scum, but it's not likely. Because why bring attention to your partner?)

Then Chumbo, Muh316, and LoneMarkhor come in and bring in reasoning on why Marcistar is scum and vote her.

Those people I mentioned I doubt are scum, as they provided some reasoning onto why they are lynching Marcistar. Unlike you, who has only defended marcistar. If marcistar comes up scum, it's most likely going to be you, as you are the only one that is defending her right now! (unless marcistar's partner decided to throw marcistar under the bus and vote her off. But I doubt that possibility.)

Why vote Marci at all? (answering)

What I said above, and like I said in my previous post "but I feel like if we vote off Marcistar, it would clear up a lot that has been happening."


(also if marcistar does come up as town, I feel like Ninetales would be the most scummy out of everyone. My opinion on you might change, as you were the only person that defended her, but Idk I just see you so scummy rn )

Why am I scummy to you? You literally haven't explained this. Apparently if marci is scum I'm her patner, but if she's town...I'm still scum? And somehow voting her is supposed to "clear things up" when you're going to blame me either way?

I've provided plenty of reasoning for

why

I'm defending marcistar as well, but you seem to be ignoring that. Are all those people just supposed to be town just for providing reasoning? Scum can fake reasoning too, the game would be incredibly easy if only people who voted without reasoning were mafia. Do you

agree

with all of their reasoning? What about marcistar's response to their arguments? You two seem to have some familiarity with each other, is her own self-description of how she plays accurate? Are people being unfair or is she legitimately suspicious?

That's E-1 on marci btw, please, no one hammer (looking at you, Not_Mafia)

Why would I ever do such a thing?

Well, I know you love to hammer. Any scum reads so far?

[catboi]

It is because you are hard defending her?? I have kept restating that in my first paragraph so many times? How is that not explained? I'm not trying to throw away your explanation, but mafia tend to defend their partners, and if she ends up being town, my thoughts will most likely change towards you (sorry I didn't notice I didn't put that in my paragraph), as I believe Ninetales is the most scummiest player right now from my previous posts. I would rather vote for them, but I don't feel like the others will switch their votes onto Ninetales. Ninetales doesn't bother trying to help town out (u can read my previous post on why.) and the way they respond just doesn't seem like a town player.

Even though I know how marcistar usually plays, I am not going to bring in her past games that we played together. I don't want to use Meta, as the reason why I stopped playing discord mafia was due to meta gameplay.

Your post seemed to imply that I was scummy regardless of what marcistar flips. In 89 you wrote:

If Marcistar comes up town:
Catboi and Ninetales are together. (I personally belive those two are the most scummy)

. This seemed to imply some reason for scumreading me independent of marcistar. If it's based solely on the possibility of her being scum, okay. I'm willing to take the blame if she is scum, but right now I see that as fairly unlikely.

There are a lot of days left in this phase, you don't need to necessarily compromise just yet. If you think ninetales is still most likely to be scum, keep trying to push that. I don't really see that read either, but my disagreement isn't as strong, and I understand your suspicion there, at least.

I can understand not liking meta, some people here hate it (I don't mind it), but seeing as how some of the arguments were based on her own self-meta I thought it was fair game to ask for some verification. You also didn't answer all my questions with regard to the people voting marcistar:

I've provided plenty of reasoning for why I'm defending marcistar as well, but you seem to be ignoring that. Are all those people just supposed to be town just for providing reasoning? Scum can fake reasoning too, the game would be incredibly easy if only people who voted without reasoning were mafia. Do you agree with all of their reasoning? What about marcistar's response to their arguments? You two seem to have some familiarity with each other, is her own self-description of how she plays accurate? Are people being unfair or is she legitimately suspicious?

Like I said: do you like the reasoning they gave for voting her? Do you agree with it or not?

[catboi]

Townies appeal to emotion and get defeatist all the time. I find the statements from her far more likely to be defeatist newb-town than scum. You say you've played on MU but never seen a town player act defeatist?

I have but I find for newbies, scum do this more.

Not true in my experience whatsoever. It's certainly possible but the attitude she's showing is town a strong majority of the time.

I read your first post quoted here as you being skeptical. "I want to believe" translated to me as you will be looking more closely at her in the future. I didn't think you meant you meant that you're just going to accept post 12 as definite newbtown. I apparently misunderstood you.

You do make a good point about new players probably not using rolefishing right away though. I still think that newer players might be hyper-aware of how much they talk to their partner though and that that could result in either not talking at all or overtalking.
What do you think of Ninetails?

I don't have any particular thoughts on ninetales right now.

Well if reads lists are normal around here then it feels like Ninetales wanted to shade me and devalue my read that they’re scum. Does anybody else feel like that’s what happened?
VOTE: Ninetales

I’m this high effort wherever I play, I have no idea how it is here.
Would you like me to link you to my other forum?

I think when someone outs a read list and says they're doing ISOs on page 5, there's always going to be a question as to whether they're doing it performatively. I don't personally have a huge issue with your reads, scumreads feel a bit strained but it's still early. Do you often do early read lists in the games you play?

[catboi]

The reads list was the only way I knew how to condense my thoughts about each player.
I’m used to playing a more fast paced game style where I’m from.
Day one alone could have well over 20 pages of posts.
And days only last 72 hours on average (3 days IRL) with nights lasting 24 hours.
Whereas here on MS, it’s slow paced, Day one only has 6 pages so far and extremely long days.
Since people were posting serious content, I felt like diving every ISO.
And the fact that it’s easy to ISO read here was enjoyable to me.
Maybe I’m not made to play on this site and I should stick to where I’m from.
I’m town, so I hope you don’t kill me based on me trying too hard.
I wanted to make the best early reads that I could.
I explained my thought process and gave valid reasons for my reads.
I’m aware it’s early game so my reads are probably wrong.
But that doesn’t make them fake or forced.
Nobody asked me for reads, there’s no reason for them to be forced.
And the effort put in shows they’re not fake.
We should move on I guess, if nobody agreed with the reads, that’s okay.

My goodness, there's no need to get so worked up. It's a newbie game so people are going to not be used to each other and have unfamiliar styles, but it's going to be fine, just need to work things out. You're doing fine. It's just one person who doubts you, I just wanted to verify that this was something you usually do.

On thinking about it, I probably buy this as an instance of being extremely eager rather than trying to appear town by posting content early.

[catboi]

So nobody else thinks not_mafia is scum?

MOD: Is there some kind of rule that one scum is always SE or is it completely random?

I have a vote on Not_Mafia so I obviously am scumleaning. However, it seems like my vote hasn't done anything to produce results. I looked into Not_Mafia's meta and it all seems like one liners and the same overall theme that we're seeing in this game. I'm guessing we're not getting much of that slot even if we pressure them.

I'm not expecting him to react to a vote. I don't think anything he's done is inherently scummy. It's frustrating, but to spin it in the absolute best possible light, sometimes you have to read around a player that doesn't say much. How other people react to him, and your reads on them are more important. Focus on reading other people first.

[catboi]

I do have actually have a townread on pickles and paopao.

@catboi: you don't have any feelings about ninetails. You think marci is town and you may still think I'm scum even though I explained our misunderstanding. Do you have any reads on anyone other than me and marci?

The explanation didn't do much for much. I like 148, though. It's possible to change tactics between games but it felt like a very honest admission and given he did all right in his previous game I don't see the need to fake not having reads.

UNVOTE:

I hadn't put a ton of thought into everyone else, was in a bit of a wait and see mode, but clearly that's not working, the game is slow, so I need to rethink my approach.

Scum might be throwing this game into inactivity.

do scum usually do that here?

lurking can be a strategy, or people can do it because they don't know what to say. It's definitely true that on the whole scum tend to post less but some people just post less as their playstyle so you can't always win by voting the people with the lowest postcount.

I'm going to try to look for a new angle on things, I just need to wake up first.

[catboi]

Yeah it’s doubtful I’m gonna remember I’m playing this game.
It’s just so slow on this site.

FWIW this game is unusually slow, even for a newbie game. Games in other queues move faster. Ill try to post more though.

1) They have a lot of useless and contentless posts also excess amount of emojis(not sure if this actually means anything but I thought I'd mention it). I couldn't post this post because it went over the maximum number of emojis. I had to delete half of them and half of them were these : . This ties in to point 4) a little bit.
2) They have a lot of confusion that feels over. They seem so confused that I feel the confusion is fake. (I didn't include the confusion at the beginning about votes and titles but I also felt those were a little over but they seemed not terrible since Marcistar is new)
3) slight pocketing. they do this to nearly everyone.
4) They keep saying "just vote me"
I think of this as a form of guilt tripping.
5) They have no clear stances. mostly just "think person could be scum"

How is any of that stuff supposed to be scummy?

VOTE: Ninetales

[catboi]

Last Two Reads

LoneMarkhor

- They joked around a lot early game, possibly nervous, possibly meming. The first post that felt real was 82 which felt like another townie trying to keep discussion alive longer than a couple IRL days for day one. Post 105and106 felt kind of strange and off putting with them saying in the first post that NotMaf is scum with marc ignoring that fact so they’re partners. Then in the same post saying marc and pao are more likely partners for reasons they also don’t know. Then in the next post they backtrack and say marc is likely newb town which could be as a fallback for when she flips town. Possible TMI. Then claims if you’re town you would know what Ninetales was hinting and that you shouldn’t press the matter. Then goes on to describe it had to do with roll fishing. Now, I’ve played a lot of games off site and I had NO IDEA it started as a roll fishing situation because no town power roles were even mentioned. Just town/scum. I was as confused about what Nine was implying as marc and pao were, I just wasn’t here to comment on it. I don’t like these vibes right now so I’m gonna go with gut here.

Ninetales

- The progression they don’t have really hurts my head. They seem to be all over the place as soon as they arrive. Very chaotic. They SR pao and think marc is NAI, but vote marc saying it’s a RVS vote. Then as things progress, they’re vote becomes a legit one with SR on marc for unknown reasons? Then they backtrack on the SR for pao and claim they never said they actually SR them just made observation. The whole ISO is very fence sitting, can’t actually make any true opinions. I haven’t seen anything that indicates town from their posts. I’ll go as far as to say this is my highest SR currently.

re-looking at this. I don't really agree with your reasons for scumreading LoneMarkhor, I don't think calling someone likely town is TMI, and I don't see any talk from him about role fishing? However, I think the way he pushed not_mafia is potentially scummy because scum would see him as a good target, and the way he moved onto chumbo wasn't great reasoning, his whole thing about wanting to eliminate in SEs makes no sense to me. It's not overtly scummy but I wouldn't call him a townread.

Mostly thought Ninetales could just be a different perspective and the reasons she was getting voted weren't good, the comment about paopao's reaction to the titles thing was just thinking it was scum or pr indicative, and i can see reason not to out that, but I'm not a fan of her continued tunnel on marcistar and the reasons there just aren't good. I wouldn't say she's fence sitting though.

[catboi]

Pickles getting frustrated with lack of engagement with his reads is probably a towntell, though. Doesn't need to care that much if he's mafia and getting ignored because he'd just accept being under the radar.

(sorry for the triple post, my thinking is just disorganized, but I'm going to try to be more active.

[catboi]

I didn't call it dumb, I asked why that stuff is supposed to be scummy. Excessive emojis? confusion? Not having clear stances? Those things aren't scummy and acting like they are is a huge stretch.

[catboi]

All I can say is that I’m not used to the slow speed of the game, it kills my wim.
Nothing has happened to change my reads, so I’m not sure how to progress.
There’s 6 days and 3 hours left in the day, I’m gonna reread the whole thread.
Probably not right now, but when I’ve got some extra time.
I’ll re-assess all of my reads and see if they come out any differently.
It’s unlikely I’ll post them like I did the first time, instead I’ll just quick explain.
Hopefully something stands out during that because I have no idea what else to do.
Otherwise if nothing new stands out, I’ll likely cast vote between {Nine/Lone/NotMaf}.
I also noticed a few comments/questions for me when I was reading.
But I don’t have time to go back and find them now so I’ll answer in next post later.

._. I feel bad, because I don't want the game to be boring, I want it to be

fun

so that people want to stay, but I don't know how to inspire activity, both of our SEs are frankly big-time lurkers and paopao has gone offline and is likely to be replaced. I suppose I haven't been doing as much as I could, or should. I used to play more analytically, but it's been a long time since I've done that. I'll try to go over everything with a fine-toothed comb to see what I can find.

What exactly does TMI mean? I've seen this several times on the forum, but "too much information" doesn't seem to fit it.

The term is Too Much Information, yes, the idea being that mafia are coming from an informed perspective and know who is town and so the reads they give will be influenced by that. I don't use it that much but pickles did so I felt the need to bring it up in the response. I essence I don't see calling someone likely town is necessarily scummy, players get town reads all the time, and all markhor actually said was marcistar "might be town" which hardly sounds like a read mafia might give.

[catboi]

I think the scumteam is {marci, catboi} or from {ninetails, not_mafia/pao}.Though the interaction between ninetails and pao earlier does make it rather unlikely but its still possible. Now that I know what TMI means I understand pickles read on me. Only reason why I thought marci was scum was that I thought she was faking newbie town which was based on the thing that she didn't appear to understand the 'other' possibility that I understood and shouldn't be hard for newbies to get but I thought about the matter again and ruled it out because its a newbie game after all. If pickles ye still think I am scum then I can't do much about it.

I would strongly rule outany possibility of ninetales/pao as a team, and needless to say I disagree with the former. What makes you only consider those possibilities?

[catboi]

A quick thought is that I'm not sure Lone would pretend to be under the delusion that one SE had to be mafia like he said in 180 if he were in fact mafia (unless partnered with an SE. I don't think he'd try to argue from an incorrect assumption he knew was incorrect. I think it's much more likely to be a genuine mistake from him.

I don't really like

muh316

's 26, mostly because I don't see how the selfvote on page 1 is supposed to be scummy. I don't like the accusations of rolefishing in 68, it feels like an easy buzzword to sling around but in my experience scum

rarely

do anything that could be described as rolefishing, and he both accuses marcistar of potentially pocketing ninetales while accusing ninetales of potentially rolefishing, which seems potnetially like trying to have things both ways. I don't necessarily mind his observation of marcistar's play being seemingly contradictory, even though I don't have an issue with it, I could see a town player picking up on that. On the face of it I agree with 80, marcistar's defeatism wasn't helpful, but something about the way it's written doesn't quite sit right with me, feels a little like he's talking down to her, I don't know. The re-evaluation in 98 isn't badnot mindlessly tunnelin marcistar is good but I don't really like that his only comment was that the post was "sunstantive with good reads" but not actually commenting about anything she said. The attack on not_mafia for not posting substance in 99 is an easy one but not necessarily bad, certainly could be scum and I could certainly see why a town player would suspect them. I don't like muh promising to work on a reads list in 158 and not delivering.

There's stuff here I find kind of suspicious, but nothing glaringly so, in a little sense it does look like muh might be trying to scumhunt but it's hard to tell due to low volume. I wouldn't really declare him a townread, though.

[catboi]

VOTE: donkihott

I had issues/lingering suspicion of paopao already but what a gross entry. What about her AtE is "cringe" and why is it vote-worthy?

[catboi]

Your issues with paopao don't concern me, I cannot answer for whatever paopao thought or said. I am wondering why are so WKing so hard.

Am I scum hard-defending my partner on Day 1, or am I white knighting? Why did you dodge answering my question?

[catboi]

Ah!
Its either {marci, catboi} or {ninetails, donki}. That is not including not_mafia. Donkihott supporting ninetails seems suspicious but catboi recently has been more suspicious with his hollow posts. That looks like he is just waiting for night to come not scumhunting.Plus marcistar's posts also sometimes look like that filled with only emotions an emojis. Night is almost to come so we must choose a person to eliminate which means scum get a free kill.

What about my posts are "hollow", exactly? I'm trying to analyze the game.

[catboi]

Really? What about marci's AtE isn't cringe? A little is fine, but damn...

Why are you answering for him when he wouldn't answer himself? What

actual issues

do you have with her emotional appeals and

why is it scummy

? I can tell you town players use appeals to emotion all the time. It's not a scumtell, especially from someone who's know. AtE is a buzzword, you're not making any actual connection to how it makes her scum.

Most of the posting he does is either answering questions about how the game is played or dismantling other players reads. I think it is coming from a scum viewpoint.

So tell me: why is disagreeing with the reads of others scummy? Why can't I be town expressing legitimate disagreement? Why, as mafia, does it benefit me to simply disagree with every scumread someone else expresses? This is nonsensical.

[catboi]

Is paopaoslot/muh too simplistic a solve? possibly, but it seems plausible.

[catboi]

As for you, disagreeing with reads is fine but that's all you've been doing. I see it as potentially manipulating town into doubt. I see it benefiting you as a way to post that doesn't require much work, but could potentially make you look townie to people. I don't see much trying to figure out who's town. Also, I feel that your votes are lazy. You voted Ninetails because of her reasoning for thinking marci was scum, which I don't see how you saw as scum-aligned and wasn't a bad post IMO. You also voted donki saying you were suspicious of Paopao, but you never actually stated any suspicions on the slot before then.

If you think I haven't been trying to figure out who's town, you simply haven't been reading my posts. I think marcistar is town. I've put out more tentative townreads on pickles, lonemarkhor, and even you, after expressing doubt. These reads aren't terribly strong, but they're there.

Is only disagreeing with people supposed to make me look town? Clearly it's no working, Lol.

What's "lazy" about the ninetales vote? I'm not exactly following a popular wagon and

clearly

my disagreement with their scumread is not exactly a popular one. I felt they were continuing to push on something that is most likely a new player getting frustrated in the way a townie would, and the continued tunneling was into dishonest territory. It wasn't a strong feeling, though, I think donki's entry and vote is scummier.

Further, even if my votes have been a bit weak so far, why is that scummy? There simply hasn't been a lot of content that was strongly telling one way or another, and it is day 1, after all. I'm more than capable of formulating a strong argument as scum (although it's been some time since I last played as mafia in a forum game). Is not having strogn reads supposed to be scummy? You yourself admitted you're feeling unsure so far, which is why I unvoted you.

If I don't state a suspicion explicitly, does that mean it doesn't exist? If you look at my 97 and 102, I expressed my skepticism of what paopao was doing, if you look at it. I said while I could maybe understand his ninetales read, he was setting up a scenario where regardless of what marcistar flipped, he was prepared to call me scum. He tried changing that it later posts, but it still left a very bad impression on me.

[catboi]

i didn't know what to think of these at first, i liked them yeah.. but the more I think about it, the more that I feel like (i hope this isnt offensive, but idk how to explain it other then this) that the reads aren't 100% original.
like they give me thoughts that.. like really similar to somebody elses reads but i cant tell who..

How's it similar to someone if you can't tell who? If you feel like he's just mirroring reads you should be able to point out where you think he's taking someone else's. I don't see them as all that similar to anyone else's, in some places he agrees with me and in others I don't see it, it doesn't quite line up anywhere.

[catboi]

I'll use a sentece of your style. If you think I didn't answer your question, you simply haven't read my posts

I was looking for where you responded to me, not some other part of your post tucked away in an answer to someone else. So let's see:

I have hard time believing marci's "I'm so new, I don't know what I'm doing" style. She constantly contradicted herself saying she is new, saying she actually played and is familiar with the game, saying she gets killed because she is lurking, saying she talks too much. Do you think asking if the roles of the players are revealed on their profile summary is a question a newbie (anyone) would ask? I don't think so.

Nope, this still doesn't address why her "cringe AtE" is supposed to be scummy.

You just instead rehash the argument other people have made about her apparent contradictions with regard to inexperience, which aren't really contradictions at all and have been explained. Do you think asking the question about the titles being related to roles is something

someone would make up

? Because to me it seems far more likely to be legitimate than not. To assume otherwise would be to assume she is somehow a nefarious scum mastermind who is faking inexperience to get townread while being unable to maintain a proper cover story. This is highly implausible.

To me it looks like you're mostly just repeating reasons other people have said for marcistar being scum, none of which are very good, IMO.

With the ninetails vote, you just dismissed the post she made and said it wasn't good reasoning. I feel like her post was decent. It doesn't look like you actually have any reason to think she's scum other than disagreeing with your opinion. Do you think tunnelling is primarily scum-aligned?

Truthfully, I was more or less searching for someone to vote at that point in time, moved to ninetales because even though I didn't have strong reasons, it was better than having a vote down nowhere, and I felt the reasoning behind her attack wasn't good. I don't think tunneling is purely a thing scum does, no, but I felt that

maybe

it wasn't credible. I wouldn't put a high confidence ninetales is scum at all, no.

However, if I'm right about marcistar at least one of the people jumping on her for being noobish are mafia.

@catboi , what makes you townread LoneMarkhor?

As I said before, I think him mistakenly believing a SE has to be mafia is more likely a genuine mistake than something he'd make up. It's not a strong read, necessarily, but I'm willing to go with it for now.

[catboi]

I think the entire scum team is just 2 out of Catboi, Marcistar, Lonemarkhor, and donkihott.
If any of my original scum team is wrong, I would maybe say perhaps Marcistar is just that performative even as town. But I think catboi is not new and has no excuse to play this poorly.

How am I playing poorly by disagreeing with you? What a crock.

I am swayed by the arguments that catboi and marcistar are the scum team. I was suspicious of them but thought they were town masons. That was probably very foolish though. Because I ignored that they could also be scum team watching each other's back

I literally would not play scum like this, ever. You don't have to believe me but scum partners just don't interact the way I have with marcistar, period. File it in your head when you learn you're wrong.

Also, please don't make comments like this, it makes it easier for mafia to find power roles.

[catboi]

This doesn't make sense to me. Seems like whiteknighting or pocketing. I understand OMGUS if you're voted, but an OMGUS vote because somebody voted a player you feel is towny just doesn't feel right to me.

Because I disagree with the reasoning and think it might be coming from scum? Isn't that, like, the whole point of the game?

[catboi]

Starting to feel like muh is just town with bad reasoning from his reaction to the LoneMarkhor thing but I don't like how his reads on me and marci basically have basically shifted with consensus.

[catboi]

I don't really understand why I'm getting voted, other than for having an unpopular townread that I defended.

[catboi]

First of all I don't think I got town read for that. People were scumreading me for that reason. Secondly I didn't say that for getting reads. I was just saying that this was the thing which some people were saying that I knew too much causing them to be town read by me.

Hmm, didn't people in that game tell you not to openly speculate about masons? Why did you do that again?

[catboi]

That's not entirely inaccurate, I just am not getting much in the way of reads otherwise, even though I've tried to explain everything. i have marci as town, pickles as town, and I think chumbo getting paranoid about lone repeating his mason read for towncred was a towny post. So I'm working with what I've got outside of those. I also don't think nine/donki are a likely team because of paopao interactions.

[catboi]

We're getting close to the deadline now, people should consolidate on a target and get a claim. (I realize this might be me).

I'm sorry if I haven't explained myself well this game. I used to be better with words and explaining myself clearly, obviously that isn't working here. It's hard because I feel like no one is really trying to communicate this game, admittedly I haven't been great in that regard either. But it's still frustrating.

[catboi]

Yeah, I absolutely am not claiming unless there's intent to hammer, that'd be a bad idea. I'll vote Lone if necessary for self-preservation. Need to hear from Not_Mafia.

I too am staying firm on my vote :/

Please answer my 254, I'm trying to figure out my read.

[catboi]

No one's announcing intent an I'm not doing it for a player as scummy as you.

[catboi]

I'd rather vote donki but I don't know that we get the support there. Ninetales is scummy as well but probably not scum with donki, because of paopao. Do you have thoughts on LoneMarkhor?

[catboi]

Reads on a previous player in a slot exist, regardless of whether you want them to or not. You can't just handwave them away. It's absolutely not a scumtell be using legacy reads from a player in a different slot. I'm not even using that as a point against you, specifically - I just think you and Ninetales are very unlikely to be aligned as mafia teammates.

Not_Mafia actually usually has good reads as town, but is frequently someone scum try to discredit and push on because of his playstyle. I'm not sure he's town this game (because how could you be) but not just letting me die is a point in his favor.

[catboi]

Nah, you don't have to vote me if you don't think I'm scum. I don't know what pickles is doing, looks like he abandoned the game when it finally became active and he had to actually do something.

[catboi]

It's frowned upon, the site is trying to phase out the usage of it. "elimination" is the preferred term for newbie games.

[catboi]

NP, just letting you know.

Do you have reads right now?

[catboi]

Why are these people scummy? Oh yeah, they thought marci was scum, so automatically they are scum. What reason do you think they are scum is more reasonable than why we think you are?

Because I'm town, so obviously you can't be right on me? What the hell kind of question is that?

Nah, you don't have to vote me if you don't think I'm scum. I don't know what pickles is doing, looks like he abandoned the game when it finally became active and he had to actually do something.

Here you are again shifting to another player. Trying to reassure marci that pickles is scum even though you had a town read, what changed?.

everyone whos voting catboi if he ends up town, what would we do next?

If this happens we take the information from his lynch and the nightkill (if there is one) and we have a better chance of getting scum tomorrow.

This is a straight up misrepresentation. I never called Pickles scum, I just stated he seems to have abandoned the game. That can happen as either alignment. It does make my read there a lot shakier.

What "info" are you supposedly going to gain from my flip? You didn't state any, you just said you would.

Tell me, when I flip town, what will you do next? What information are you supposedly going to get from it?

Also, catboi, have you given my reasoning behind why Ninetails is probably town any thought?

I didn't see it.

[catboi]

I've looked at ninetails again, but I really don't think she is scum. The post trying to prod us to do stuff and ask her questions really made me think she was town.

LOL, that's supposed to make someone a townread? Prodding people to do stuff and asking for reasons? Give me a break. Anyone can do that sort of stuff, in fact I'd put it in the exact realm of things people do to look pro-town rather than actually help town.



I retract any townread on Chumbo, this treatment of me is so blatantly unreasonable.

[catboi]

A catboi flip could tell us whether you were defending marci as scum or whether Not_Mafia defended you because you are a scumteam (not sure) also possibly muh, Ninetails would be pretty much cleared if you're scum. Donki as well. At the very least it would tell us a hell of a lot more than Lone. You want to counter this?

Okay, yes, you think you can solve the game if I flip scum, bu I'm not flipping scum,

so what happens when I flip town?

Why are you avoiding even considering the possibility?

Of course you do, because you're scum. I don't need your townread.

You literally townread people because they use emoji's and AtE.

I don't townread her for emojis, straight up misrep again. I felt like the question about the titles on page 1 was very likely a townslip, and her atiitude of "just get rid of me if you have to" is overwhelmingly more likely to come from town. You're very obviously not trying to see my side of things or solve me at all.

[catboi]

Also, Lone flipping mafia would tell us just as much, wouldn't it? Like, in the hypothetical world where he flips mafia, I'd clear marci, pickles, and muh. I'm not sure that world is likely, but claiming you get "better info" from killing me IF I flip scum is just totally biased.

[catboi]

OMG, I answered the question for marci, it's reversed, so let me tell you since you can't critically think. If you flip town, marci is much more likely to be town, Not_Mafia is goes to null, Lone and donki are more likely to be scum.

"just get rid of me if you have to" isn't ATE? I don't believe the question on

P1

was that much of a townslip to carry on to page 12. I've tried to look at your side in every way, but I don't see your slot as town at all.

Pedit: Lone's VC was all over the place, I don't think it would tell us as much. AND, we already know he claimed VT.

Yes, it's an appeal to emotion. I just find it far more likely to be something a townie says, especially prematurely. That kind of defeatist attitude comes far more often from town than from scum from what I have seen. But it's something that tends to get pushed on, either by scum or inexperienced players. So I found people's pressure there to be suspect.

Sorry, I'm a little frustrated with this pressure, I just didn't like at all how you were putting basically 0 consideration into what you'd do when I flip town.


Don't go after marci or Not_Mafia if I get flipped, that's all I ask.

[catboi]

I'm not confident but I think he should be given a day to have his reads followed.

[catboi]

VOTE: LoneMarkhor

self-preservation vote. I don't have much to say at this point. Please no one hammer me until I have a chance to claim and give final reads.

[catboi]

I'll reiterate I don't really find you scummy even if I have some doubts, I just know I'm town so any other option is better.

[catboi]

I am town and I don't think you've played badly even if I'm annoyed with the stubbornness of your read on me. Clearly I didn't do a good enough job communicating this game, either. I guess I was too aggressive and didn't explain myself well enough? I just don't have any other option at this point because the game is stalled and people aren't reconsidering.

[catboi]

I probably agree but they're not gonna listen to you the way things are.

[catboi]

donkihott is obvscum

Ahahahahashahhahahahahaahahahahha just quit this game bro hahahahaah

Yeah if I get hammered, get this tomorrow

[catboi]

I've made arguments but all you've done is discredit and deflect. I think your entry to the game was scummy.

[catboi]

final reads for if I'm hammered:

Town reads:
marcistar
Not_Mafia (I would assume as mafia he'd just hammer one of us rather than post about donkihott)
LoneMarkhor (I know I'm voting him for self-presevation but really don't find him scummy and hate that I've been forced into this.

I have a very weak townlean on Pickles. I wouldn't carry that to the bank because I don't like the fact that he complained about the pace of the game and then when activity picked up he stopped playing the game, but it might be something to do with not being able to adapt to the pace of games here.


Scum reads:
donkihott
chumbo
ninetales
muh316

donki and ninetales are never together. I would get donki first. If he's scum, get chumbo after that. Ninetales frustrates me a lot because she does rude crap like accusing me of playing badly for disagreeing with her and trying to urge people to hammer me but it felt like there was some things that could be from town, like her suggesting paopao with the self-awareness thing might be a PR but not wanting to out it. BUT if donkihott flips town, Ninetales should be first to go on day 3. Don't buy into whatever excuses she makes.

muh I'm just really not sure on because I haven't really liked what he's been posting and his reads seemed to shift with popular opinion but gut says he might be stubborn town.


Again this is really frustratin because I feel like I've been having to defend myself from completely dishonest attacks and It's not easy for me to read people this way.

[catboi]

There's no way town pulls this sarcastic mockery of me.. You're just trying to make me mad so I'll get voted.

[catboi]

for reference, here's a game that just finished where Not_Mafia voted all 3 members of the mafia on day 1: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85197

So listen to him about donkihott tomorrow.

[catboi]

As a final point of reference: Look at the difference in how Lone talks to me vs. how donkihott taunts to me. Lone is unsure, apologetic, but paranoid. donkihott is taunting me because he knows he's getting a townie killed and he's gloating about it.

[catboi]

for reference, here's a game that just finished where Not_Mafia voted all 3 members of the mafia on day 1: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85197

So listen to him about donkihott tomorrow.

He has 20 000 posts, no surprise if he got the mafia at some point by randomly saying names

Scum attempting to discredit his read. Like they always do.

[catboi]

I wish he wouldn't do this in newbie games but I've tried to use words and it's not like I get listened to anyway.

[catboi]

If these references mean much to you then exactly this should clear me. In first game as scum I played that card of being unsure and I won. Here take that link and shove it.. in your search bar viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84852

You're saying you wouldn't change your approach at all?

[catboi]

Inmteresting, I'm reading and I see you going on with similar taunting but it's all directed at your partner as distancing.

[catboi]

It's hard because I'm looking at your town game now, and while I see you giving people a similar level of atittude and are very impatient, you also put in a lot more reasoning that I'm really not seeing here. Like what actual reason do you have for thinking I am scum this game?

[catboi]

Err, what? In that game it was battle mage. Here if he's scum it's chumbo or you is my guess.

Anyway, muh, if you still SR me, please don't hammer me yet, I want to finish questioning donkihott. I want to clarify my read of him.

[catboi]

Well I was actually trying to fake a thought process and seem like I'm really trying Well you were accusing everyone who seemed suspicious of marci's posts, you are defending not_mafia and he is clearly on your side and saying I'm the obv scum which for a fact I know is just false and hilarious cuz "not_mafia is a great town player, catches all mafia on round 1 blah blah" So yea I don't have solid reads and reasons but I find you suspicious, other people find you suspicious etc etc

So you think I'm scum for defending people? And that I'm partnered with one of them? Do I have that right?

[catboi]

Well I was actually trying to fake a thought process and seem like I'm really trying Well you were accusing everyone who seemed suspicious of marci's posts, you are defending not_mafia and he is clearly on your side and saying I'm the obv scum which for a fact I know is just false and hilarious cuz "not_mafia is a great town player, catches all mafia on round 1 blah blah" So yea I don't have solid reads and reasons but I find you suspicious, other people find you suspicious etc etc

So you think I'm scum for defending people? And that I'm partnered with one of them? Do I have that right?

You literally quoted my answer and asked a question I already answered in the quote lmao.

I wanted you to clarify, to be sure. In your experience, do mafia teammates behave with each other the way I am behaving toward them?

[catboi]

That's a complete dodge - in both your previous games, you saw scum distance heavily from each other, once you did it yourself with your teammate: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84658 viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84852

It's not impossible for teammates to defend each other, but why put myself into the spotlight to defend a much more vulnerable partner in such an obvious way? I simply wouldn't do it. And you have no reason to think mafia would play the way I am.

Sure, sometimes scum hard defend their partners as a WIFOM play, but it's fairly rare. I certainly wouldn't obviously tie myself to a partner when I'm already under pressure. And I believe you to be more capable of decent reasoning than that - your town game shows you trying to actually figure things out and explain them. There's none of that here. Your avoiding that answer seals the deal because you don't want to address the very obvious issue with your reasoning.

VOTE: donkihott

[catboi]

I claim Vanilla town, I got what I wanted, feel free to hammer me.

elim order:

donkihott > chumbo > muh (if donki is mafia)
donkihott > ninetales > chumbo (if donki is town)

[catboi]

Fun fact: I was actually scum with Not_Mafia once, a long time ago. I bussed him and won: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=63339

(looking at that game, I did fake frustration similarly to what I'm doing now, but I wrote better, longer posts. What little ability I had with words has left me)

[catboi]

I don't care what you say anymore, I've accepted dying, discrediting me is useless when I'm going to flip town. Hopefully town is smart and sends you to join me quickly.

[catboi]

I claimed because there's 2 days left to deadline and I don't want to elim Lone, I think he's town, and you are so scummy that it is better off I die day 1 so town can realize they were being foolish and elim you for being obvscum.

[catboi]

Like, why even try to paint me as scum for claiming here? Lmao. You're reaching so hard.

[catboi]

You realize situations change, right? I held out for a while because I believe it's usually better as town to act in self-preservation - you know you are 100% town while no one else is. I didn't want to claim early because I knew doing so was a death sentence. I had somewhat hoped I might be able to convince people to not vote me. I felt like by being so dead set against claiming I might make scum think I was a PR and die that way. But obviously that didn't work. And I decided that since you're so scummy and I don't really SR Lone, I'm not going to self-pres - because clearly I'm not going to get listened to until after I'm dead.

Trying to paint this as a contradiction is SO DESPERATE - doing what I have done is GUARANTEED to get me eliminated, so why are you attacking it? You just want to blame me for my play to discredit my read on you after I die.

[catboi]

Also do you think I'd be so pushy if you were town and I'm scum so I can be eliminated on D2?

Yes, because you're noobscum who thinks this fake confidence will fool people. Why are you trying to convince me you're town, Lmao?

[catboi]

Situations change? Then don't be so certain you won't claim if there is no intent ha

Town doesn't make this line of attack, ever. I clearly explained why I changed. You're trying to make something out of me changing my mind in a completely insignificant and understandable way.

donki will try to WIFOM and discredit me by saying he wouldn't attack me like this as scum and it was my fault. Don't buy it. elim him tomorrow.

[catboi]

Hard for scum to die Night 1.

[catboi]

I'm literally asking to be hammered, I just unvoted the only viable counterwagon. Don't bother taunting me, you'll be joining me in the dead PT after tomorrow.

[catboi]

See you in the dead PT, scum.

[catboi]

I didn't really see a good reason to claim here. Given that we still have almost 2 full days and a possible Pickles replacement, we still had time to adjust.

2 full days isn't as much time as you're thinking it is, and there's no chance of adjusting! Everything I post gets discredited by the people voting me, you hardly interact, not_mafia isn't going to persuade anyonemarcistar doesn't really have reads and is being attacked by the people voting me for the same bad reasoning, pickles is being replaced and I doubt his replacement will change anything. - even if the replacement defends me, the people voting me will just call them scum for defending me, Lol.

I don't scumread Lone and don't want to vote there because if he flips town we just end up repeating day 1 over again and I have the same scummy people trying to vote me for bad reasons. Like, I never do this normally, I think it's good to fight as much as possible, but I'm sick of having to defend myself like this when nothing gets through, probably because I'm arguing with scum most of the time. I think the only way people will be convinced of my scumread is by me dying.

What reason was there to expect any sort of adjustment?

[catboi]

Catboi if you vote lone I will declare intent

I really don't know what good self-pres does when I'm getting tunneled like this. But I want to talk with muh first regardless.

muh

, what are your current reads? Do you still scumread me? If I get hammered and flip town, who would you suspect? If Lone flips town, who is mafia? If he's scum, who would be his partner?

[catboi]

I don't have faith in a magic replacement. Fresh perspective won't help when people are stubborn and uncommunicative.

Not going to self-preservation vote then. No desire to go through this all over again. You can wait on a replacement if you like.

[catboi]

what did you think of the claim

In my opinion, the claim was completely unnecessary. It's WIFOM to me since it could be scumCatboi trying a desperate appeal to emotion before getting eliminated or townCatboi genuinely frustrated. That's why I'm not taking it to be alignment indicative.

I wouldn't try to pull the WIFOM play as scum in a newbie game. Too high a chance of backfiring. But I mostly expected skepticism.

[catboi]

Why is that scummy? It's what I believe. Would speaking with less certainty and hedging all my reads be more town to you? Should I say "I would be less likely to do this as scum, so watch out, everyone"? At the very worst a statement like that is null, because if I WERE scum...I would probably try to argue that I wouldn't play that way. But I do genuinely believe it's tactically suboptimal to claim VT as scum when getting run up in a newbie game.

[catboi]

Is speaking with certainty about specific things a scumtell to you?

[catboi]

Explaining myself and my decisionmaking is scummy? Saying I wouldn't do something is manipulative? By your logic, anything anyone says to try to convince others scummy because it's trying to manipulate them into thinking something. Am I not allowed to defend myself? It feels like you're overreaching to try to justify a scumread on me.

[catboi]

Chumbologic: when other people explain themselvse, they are town for giving reasons. When I explain myself, I'm scum for being manipulative.

[catboi]

You're twisting my words around now. I'm not saying people can't explain their actions, but when you justify whatever you do with a broad, impossible to prove meta (sitewide) it seems manipulative. Scum can do anything to try to get people to think they're town, it's not limited and if it was we'd always have town winning.

That's not meta. I am saying that I believe it is suboptimal to claim VT if run up as mafia on day 1 (when nothing else is outed). I would estimate a day 1 VT claim at E-1 gets eliminated over 80% of the time (that's a guess but I remember seeing a statistic and the number is high). Doing so would leave a high probability that I would be eliminated my partner would be in a very bad situation, facing a potential autoloss if they don't kill a PR in certain setups. It's simply a bad move tactically. New players don't always realize this, but I've played long enough to know.

You are, of course, free to think I am lying and am making a WIFOM play to try to talk myself out of this, taking a risk on a low percentage strategy that has long-term benefits if it works. After all, my way with words has proven very persuasive so far! But when you try to argue such talk from me is somehow

manipulative

, that's just you trying to twist things against me. You seem to be straining to attack this for some reason. Perhaps what you see as an "unverifiable meta" defense has upset you?

[catboi]

Absolute flail from chumbo and donki to protect each other. That shift onto Lone was ludicrously scummy. Lone had no reason to back off the vote on me.

[catboi]

I got (mis)eliminated due to my poor English

You get eliminated because scumbo and donkiscum got desperate. You weren't bad.

[catboi]

Sorry, I'm immune to trolling.

[catboi]

I don't feel as confident about catboi with him not being willing to vote Lone to save himself. Donki seems town to me though. While Lone is only a soft scumread, I think he may be the best option since I'm not confident about catboi anymore.

VOTE: LoneMarkhor

For real, "donki seems town to me", while Chumbo has barely mentioned him prior to this, there's no basis to that read but they both just immediately jumped to Lone. Also noticing that chumbo was content to call me town until the MOMENT N_M and I jumped on donki, and then he voted me and started to make bad arguments calling everything I do scummy, obvious chainsaw is obvious.

[catboi]

Sorry for the fail read on Lone. That's my bad. I need to be less reactive. I think chumbo, donki, muh, and marci are all town, the last mafia is Ninetales or Not_Mafia. Lone voted both of them at different points during the day, soI'm not sure, but I think Not_Mafia would have potentially hammered me when he had the chance.

VOTE: Ninetales

[catboi]

You do have a point about not_mafia but at the same time Lone might try to press on his partner if he thought they weren't doing anything. I would say he looks less likely, though. I just mainly FoS the people off-wagon more, because I feel like a day 1 bus is unlikely. muh was also very insistent on stuff like waiting for intent to hammer on me and waiting for a replacement, he easily could have voted me himself since he had me as a scumread but stayed on Lone instead. I don't get why muh would bus that much on day 1 (^・ω・^ )

[catboi]

My gut reaction to who the other scum would be is Ninetails.
I'm really not sure though. Yesterday I started townreading catboi because he didn't want to hammer Lone, but now knowing that Lone was scum I don't know if I should read it that way anymore. I don't know if Lone would bus his partner up to E-1 and hold his vote there though.

@catboi: You know Not_Mafia, do you think he would make an agreement to bus his partner D1 for some reason?

I agree you probably shouldn't townread me, hypothetically, if we were both scum, Lone probably wouldn't have felt much choice to. It's not me though! But I think as long a we narrow things down enough it should be good, so it doesn't matter if I am a suspect anymore.

Well, Not_Mafia didn't vote Lone, so he can't have bussed. I think he probably would be willing to do it, though. The real question is whether LoneMarkhor's push on Not_Mafia was a bus or not. If that's what you mean, I don't think he'd tell his partner to do it, but his partner might do it anyway because they feel he's so scummy they need to push on him. I don't think anything necessarily clears him and him still having donki as a scumread still isn't great.

I still want donkihott

Come on, man.

[catboi]

With regard to muh:

Reads, they aren't in a particular order

Towny: Chumbo, Pickles
Nuetral: Not_Mafia, Ninetales, donkihott
Scum Lean: Catboi, Marci, LoneMarkhor

Marci for obvious reasons.
Catboi for even more obvious reasons.
LoneMarkhor for the confusion in reads and WIFOM. Seems like an attempt to confuse the town with the back and forth switching and I sense some urgency here to get an elimination.

Night is almost to come so we must choose a person to eliminate which means scum get a free kill.

VOTE: LoneMarkhor

He easily could have joined the vote on me instead of voting Lone, the fact that he didn't and stayed on Lone instead of hammering me is massively +town from him

[catboi]

Ah, that. Well, at that point he was locked into defending me, he wouldn't have had a ton of choice in the matter. I wouldn't clear him based on that.

[catboi]

I don't think we need to out roles after a day 1 scum elim unless that person is a suspect. I also don't suspect donkihott, the day ended with Lone unvoting me to vote donki which lead to donki hammering Lone, that never happens if they are scum together.

Also, the power role is very obvious, they don't need to out.

[catboi]

The real question is whether LoneMarkhor's push on Not_Mafia was a bus or not. If that's what you mean, I don't think he'd tell his partner to do it, but his partner might do it anyway because they feel he's so scummy they need to push on him.

lone pushed not mafia sooo consistently, they never got off of susing not mafia, so i feel like they wouldn't be partners.
(scum does bus each other sometimes, but lone did it

too

consistently to be partners with not mafia imo.)
i feel like it was the case where not mafia is easy to pick off so he had been trying to make people get on that

Right now, I would say that I agree, especially with the way Ninetales made an excuse for Lone as being too scummy to be scum. What do you think about my points on muh?

[catboi]

Yawn. You're boring, Ninetales.

[catboi]

Very possibly.

I am a goon
I know I was a townread but masons thing made me scummy.

I don't really know what to make of this...
scumslip?

I doubt its a scumslip. I think Lonemarkhor's just town here. His actions are way to scummy for him to have a buddy in the pt.

Ninetales was consistently critical of Lone but kept finding excuses to vote elsewhere.

[catboi]

I'm not hammering donki, lol.

[catboi]

So...is this where I say marci was obv VT and I'd have never killed her, and that it's been pretty clear to me after the day 1 flip that donki's a mason? Is that enough to clear me?

[catboi]

So...is this where I say marci was obv VT and I'd have never killed her, and that it's been pretty clear to me after the day 1 flip that donki's a mason? Is that enough to clear me?

I just read that last part, haha, I totally missed it. Yea I'm

the mason

I don't get it why you (if you are scum) wouldn't kill marci since as you said is obv town. Also you knowing that I'm one of the masons and the fact that no mason died (even though at times I felt like it was obv) makes me more incline to believe that you want to pocket the masons. I would always kill obvtown unless I'm pocketing that slot or the slot is VT, why would I want ppl to be abble to narrow down their suspects.

I'd have killed you night 1, because VTs are elimmable and masons aren't. But if you don't believe me, fine, get me today.

[catboi]

Instincts say you, given you openly admitted you thought marci was a PR and you weren't voting Lone day 1. But my scumreads this game have been not great, so I might just follow marcistar. Lone barely mentioned muh in his ISO, so maybe that's it? I don't really have a strong argument.


VOTE: muh

[catboi]

I...don't know. it's possible he wanted to stay off the wagon his partner was on, his play hass been lazy this game. But I could just as easily see it being N_M.

[catboi]

VOTE: not_mafia

[catboi]

I'm claimed VT.

If you had to pick only one of us, who are you choosing and why?

[catboi]

Makes sense that I'd want to eliminate the folks who I'm certain are not town. I would first push for catboi since I've scumread him before, then go for N_M.

What do you think of catboi's opening post today about donki being a mason?

You were literally obvious masons after the flip happened, and were I mafia I'd have shot you. Leaving a conftown alive is just suboptimal, because both of you were going to still end up suspecting me and you couldn't be pushed. The idea I would try to pocket you by keeping you alive is pretty ridiculous, donki has had a stupid hardon for me since day 1 and wasn't going to be persuaded, where I could just as easily have buddied marcistar to win the game. But if the last mafia couldn't figure that out, and wound up shooting VTs instead, they might want PRs to out to give them a chance of victory, like not_mafia did yesterday. I just kept quiet and tried to keep you hidden, and I'd say it worked out all right.

The way the catboi wagon stalled and then his reluctance to move to Lone was strange

You avoided hammering on Lone, only offering after I had already unvoted. Yes, my read was bad, but I don't think you have a lot of room to talk here. (=^-ω-^=)

[catboi]

I also refused to hammer you, knowing full well the wagon could come around to lone

Well, you would have contradicted your earlier defense of me.

they might want PRs to out to give them a chance of victory, like not_mafia did yesterday. I just kept quiet and tried to keep you hidden

You had nothing to say about this yesterday, all of a sudden it's scummy

I was trying to not give away what to me were obvious PRs, but I made it clear you were one of the two I suspected.

You were literally obvious masons after the flip happened, and were I mafia I'd have shot you. Leaving a conftown alive is just suboptimal, because both of you were going to still end up suspecting me and you couldn't be pushed. The idea I would try to pocket you by keeping you alive is pretty ridiculous, donki has had a stupid hardon for me since day 1 and wasn't going to be persuaded, where I could just as easily have buddied marcistar to win the game. But if the last mafia couldn't figure that out, and wound up shooting VTs instead, they might want PRs to out to give them a chance of victory, like not_mafia did yesterday. I just kept quiet and tried to keep you hidden, and I'd say it worked out all right.

I asked this to muh because I want to get more content out of him. He's where I'm leaning atm. Lone read him as town all day 1.

I think it's more likely scum distances from their partner and puts some suspicion on them. But that's just my guess.

[catboi]

Makes sense that I'd want to eliminate the folks who I'm certain are not town. I would first push for catboi since I've scumread him before, then go for N_M.

What do you think of catboi's opening post today about donki being a mason?

What I don't understand is how catboi was so certain that we're in the setup with two mason.

Because after Lone flipped scum the it became obvious that I had correctly identified a connection between donki and chumbo, but was incorrectly scumreading it. Saw that Chumbo had started going after me when I began suspecting donki. Explains donki's cockiness toward me screaming up and down the wall that he should be next after I flip town - he knew he was never getting voted out this game. Also, the way they hammered Lone was in fact very obviously coordinated and the lack of regard for a claim was very much a PR indicator. Rest assured if I were scum I'd have shot donki.


Think N_M is just reaching to eliminate anyone that's not him at this point.

[catboi]

GG >_>

[catboi]

gg guys (can i post here now..?)

im so sorry catboi u got sused so much day 1 because of me im sorry
and sorry for everybody else for the problems i caused d1 LOL

also LOL is our game special or something? looking at all the other games, they have lots of posts??

thanks for hosting borkjerfkin!! it was fun tho forums are really confusing

Lollll, not your fault, I was pretty off the mark in a lot of ways, I could have dealt with things more constructively and not just been all over the place with my aggression. Things to learn for sure.

[catboi]

Pretty erratic votes, but you didn't vote for Muh or Pickles, pickles scumread you and so did muh but muh's looked like a distancing rather than a real read. Muh was pushing for catboi and yet remained on your wagon which makes me think he wanted someone else to hammer catboi and being on your wagon would clear him (if catboi is town), ppl would've voted me on D2 and you on D3 and muh will win solo

It was at this point where I felt like Town had me and Lone figured out completely. I was very surprised to see Ninetails being a wagon on D2. I guess I was just too paranoid.

You...probably should have hammered me when you had the chance? IDK why you didn't.

[catboi]

iN3krO

- This is a very slight read, but I actually like him saying he's not scumreading anyone in 208. Maybe I'm a sucker who's being baited by a sad face emoticon. I kind of think I don't want to vote him?

NorwegianboyEE

- I think him starting with wanting to policy N_M (27) but backing down in 67 and giving him credit for saying things is probably indicative of a town mindset. Although pushing for a vote on n_m is >rand scum from recent experience, coming out the gates with a policy vote is likely to be unpopular and nlikely to accomplish anything, and the fact that he was willing to re-evaluate suggests he's not pushing it just to push a mislim. I also like him talking about looking at Meuh's previous towngames in 160. His spirited defense of me in 194 is a bit surprising but I can buy it coming from someone with some prior experience with me. I'm all right with calling him a townread at this point.

Pearofclubs

- I will agree toward the general townreads on them, their general approach does feel problem-solvey. Reaction to my early RVS sass was okay, approach looks fine, I can't necessarily point to anything in particular but I like their overall analysis and it doesn't look like newbie scum thoughts.

Of course, I am historically terrible at at reading people who push me, don't take that read to the bank if i die.

Toriiiiiiiiiiii

- largely stand by what I said earlier about not liking their tone in respons to questioning, slight scum read

Not_Mafia

- truth be told, I've not been thrilled by what he's done so far - I know he's typically a player that doesn't do much as either alignment, but the way he outed this reads felt a bit showy, like he wanted to have the appearance of analyzing, but they haven't really moved much and the read on Sama was weak. I think there's a decent chance he could be scum here.

Samawoodo

- His start was slow and I wasn't a fan of how he seemed to be doing a lot of talking without much substance in the way of reads. I like the questioning of Toriii in 112 combined with him stating he was waiting for a followup in 141 though, shows he wasn't asking the question as busywork. The list in 202 doesn't do a ton for me, but the marcistar read is nice, there's a bit of depth to it in how he goes about the analysis - not just looking at simple things, talking about marcistar reacting to a null erad. I think that's enough to call him a town lean right now.

Meuh

- I wasn't a fan of that post asking everyone qusetions and in general I feel like there's a vibe of hanging back to her posts, stuff like 116 118 123 I don't see as advancing the game but more like talking just to talk. The bit about Sama in 162 is interesting although I'm not sure what she means by "positioning". Vote on Tori in 210 is kind of weak, don't townread Torii but this is just using purely gamestate reasoning and nothing in particular about Tori's posts which I don't like - why her over another inactive player?

marcistar

- My first game with her, had her as a fairly strong townread easily but that was because she came under pressure early, here it's a very different game and so my read isn't as strong. I do think 101 is a fairly solve-y post and the way she's tried to prod people to get the game moving is +town but nothing I'd hang my hat on.


Town

Pear
Norwee
Samawoodo

marcistar
in3kro

meuh
toriii
N_M

Scum

None of my scumreads are super strong suspicions, I'd vote any of them but would be least likely to vote Meuh simply because...she's actually posting, and given how slow the game has been I'd rather not vote out someone active on Day 1.

[catboi]

lol fuck me, wrong thread