Newbie 2055: City Lights [game over!]

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: kittytacky

[Battle Mage]

top TRs: FBJim, Vasex

top SRs: Kittytacky, HUB

[Battle Mage]

these were my reading-during-night-phase takes:

top townreads: FBJim (too townie for school), Ydrasse (assuming crumb substantiated)
moderate townread: Vasex (just seems townie)
null: floo, team rocket queen
top scumreads: HUB (open-wolfing hard?), KittyTacky (that apologetic E-1 vote was pretty gross)

Probably for the best Ydrasse died, as a VT claim after that crumb would've been instant-death. But Ydrasse did a great job of drawing the NK so kudos.

I want to elim KittyTacky today, and give HUB benefit of the doubt for now I think.

[Battle Mage]

I have a ready post but the night victim is rather unexpected. This is good that one of the susps is dead and she is just a vanilla townie.

Please tell me why the Ydrasse-kill was unexpected? For me, it was the most obvious kill choice and basically guarantees we don't have a doctor.

[Battle Mage]

I'd be surprised if both HUB and TRQ are town. It feels like 1 SE-1 newbie scum. But I have more confidence in flipping the newbie.

[Battle Mage]

What crumb?

the Ydrasse crumb? Ydrasse crumbed a PR yesterday, which was presumably the reason for the kill.

[Battle Mage]

What crumb?

probably 700

actually no - it was the one which said something like "i can confirm myself as town if i need to"

[Battle Mage]

i've played many games with ydrasse. if i'm scum, i'm for sure killing ydrasse there, and if i'm town, i'm for sure elimming ydrasse on a vanilla-claim.

[Battle Mage]

i dont think it really helps sorting-wise, given I think everyone here would probably have done the same thing. I'm wary of you and HUB as SEs both playing it down.

[Battle Mage]

Joined:Wed

Jan 10, 2007

Total posts:21415

SIGNATURE
2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%

winrate as town: 55%

We should be very careful with Battle Mage

[Battle Mage]

and if i'm town, i'm for sure elimming ydrasse on a vanilla-claim.

all by yourself?

is that meant to be a joke or a serious question?

[Battle Mage]

and if i'm town, i'm for sure elimming ydrasse on a vanilla-claim.

all by yourself?

is that meant to be a joke or a serious question?

more of a egocheck/reference to a song i like

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt then - elimination during the day is done by majority vote. But, and here's the kicker, with 4 to elim and 2 scum remaining, it could take as few as 2 townies to mis-step to result in a town elimination. claiming a power role when you're actually vanilla is rarely a good idea in newbies tbh, but here it paid off.

[Battle Mage]

I'd be surprised if both HUB and TRQ are town. It feels like 1 SE-1 newbie scum. But I have more confidence in flipping the newbie.

so your read on me is what exactly? null but mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town,

just because?

yeah, null but scum if HUB is town is about right. i'm not sure why you say "just because" - are you trying to undermine me, instead of understanding my reasoning? would you describe your playstyle as confrontational normally? how does your approach differ between alignments?

[Battle Mage]

to insist that ydrasse saying something she has said before as vanilla town is claiming a power role...

when someone else in the game actually claimed a power role seems

kinda ... (dot dot dot)

what's your point? the other player who claimed a power role, also didn't have a power role. and that player got elimmed for it. Doesn't that illustrate my argument perfectly?

[Battle Mage]

TRQ - your attempt to shade me here for nothing is both transparent and weak - I'm moving you up to scumlean.

[Battle Mage]

what's your point? the other player who claimed a power role, also didn't have a power role. and that player got elimmed for it. Doesn't that illustrate my argument perfectly?

happy unbirthday boon's mason claim just doesn't exist to you? or count towards this?

perhaps helpful if you explain your argument, and then i can respond in a way which satisfies us both.

[Battle Mage]

these were my reading-during-night-phase takes:

top townreads: FBJim (too townie for school), Ydrasse (assuming crumb substantiated)
moderate townread: Vasex (just seems townie)
null: floo, team rocket queen
top scumreads: HUB (open-wolfing hard?), KittyTacky (that apologetic E-1 vote was pretty gross)

Probably for the best Ydrasse died, as a VT claim after that crumb would've been instant-death. But Ydrasse did a great job of drawing the NK so kudos.

I want to elim KittyTacky today, and give HUB benefit of the doubt for now I think.

What's open-wolfing?

relentlessly and conspicuously trying to elim town - as happened on Day 1. I struggled to believe that HUB really thought that was a scum-elim, but nonetheless HUB continued to railroad it over the line.

[Battle Mage]

nah to say that was even the most likely crumb is a big stretch to me;

i don't believe you there, but that's ok.

could you answer my question about your read on me,

like there's a lot of content for it to be a flat null but mafia if happy unbirthday town for ??? reasons

i think you're working under the misconception that it's null because i have no opinion. in fact, i do have plenty of opinions but the pro's broadly balanced against the con's. I don't think you're covering yourself in glory so far today, although i value the engagement.

and yes, i do think 1 SE is scum here. There were 3 SE's on the mis-elim yesterday, i don't believe they were all town, and 1 already flipped town. and it just doesn't have the vibe of a game with 2 newbie-scum.

[Battle Mage]

like why am i null to you in that amount of content? and why am i mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town?

i think ive answered these now

[Battle Mage]

TRQ - your attempt to shade me here for nothing is both transparent and weak - I'm moving you up to scumlean.

i am trying to ask you to explain why i am null to you

and you are avoiding doing so

i wasnt avoiding it, i just couldnt keep up with your prolific posting - it's quite evident i was responding to a range of posts in quick succession - suggesting otherwise is completely disingenuous.

[Battle Mage]

I don't like how BM sees players now, but with this strange killing my opinion is also can be wrong. Ok, now time for a bed. zzz
And such killing looks like searching for the role. Townies cannot understand Ydra townie or not because of her silent behaviour, but mafia can see there that she is kinda hidding for some reason.

why don't you like how i see players? tell me more!

[Battle Mage]

what's your point? the other player who claimed a power role, also didn't have a power role. and that player got elimmed for it. Doesn't that illustrate my argument perfectly?

happy unbirthday boon's mason claim just doesn't exist to you? or count towards this?

perhaps helpful if you explain your argument, and then i can respond in a way which satisfies us both.

i'd like an answer to this. i'm Limited Access for next 2.5 days, but may be around tomorrow night for a bit - so if I miss questions, don't panic, I'll get to them.

[Battle Mage]

i do not understand the question. happy unbirthday boon openly said masons with vasex and then accepted masons with flow trap as a fallback,

and happy unbirthday boon is alive so i did not understand what you meant by if you 'claim' you must be eliminated or what have you

interesting. So I didn't think HUB actually claimed mason - I thought it was a joke/reference to the differences in terminology which were discussed earlier in the game.

[Battle Mage]

although i value the engagement.

this is also part of

why for the 'confrontational' or whatever you'd like to call it

because you have not been here and need content before can completely settle

though you had the nightphase and are quite experienced, so less value there

that's reasonable

[Battle Mage]

eurgh. couple quick thoughts from a skimread:

I'm feeling more comfortable elimming KittyTacky today. Agree with Vasex on that one.
I'm not remotely convinced Floo is scum, and no intention of elimming Floo today. Hard disagree with Vasex on that one.
I need FBJim here as my locktown read.

I think I'll commit that, unless something monumental changes, the elim pool for me today is: {KittyTacky, HUB, TRQ} Although really, it's just KittyTacky right?

[Battle Mage]

i like Vasex, but I feel increasingly like there's a chance Vasex could just be highly skilled, under the radar scum. But maybe that's just paranoia. Overall probably on a par with Floo now (who is moving up to a townlean because feels just like low hanging fruit here and there isn't enough of a case to warrant the attention) - probably town, and wouldn't elim either of them today, but both worth consideration again if we end up in ExLo.

so list looks a bit like:

FBJim - strongly town

Vasex, Floo - Pretty good town

HUB, TRQ - Scumleans (1 scum here)

KittyTacky - Prime scum

[Battle Mage]

Why floo became so townie? Because of the voice of Kitty and his suspicion to floo all the time? This is not a strong argument.

yeah my gut is floo is town. i don't currently care what you think about my argument. At the moment my point is simple - I think Floo is town, and so I'm not voting Floo. You disagree, and that's fine too. My suggestion remains that we don't discount the possibility of Floo being scum, but elim someone more likely today.

I think:

Elim KittyTacky
If scum, we have 2 dayphases to get the last scum. also people will get NKed and narrow the pool. and we'll have more info on associations to inform our reads on the 2nd scum.
If town, like it was probably inevitable anyway, and we'll duke it out tomorrow on the contentious reads, still with more info than today.

[Battle Mage]

I am waiting the opportunity to hammer floo

i think this is folly. if you're town, can we actually work together on our consensus scumread today?

[Battle Mage]

battlemage's view of the game

it also feels very like, concrete? not mobile? like it is now stated the same as at daystart and that does not feel like battlemage is considering what is happening?

I literally posted an explanation of the changes to my reads and rationale for them - are you really serious here? it's fair to say they haven't changed much from day start, given relatively little has happened thus far in Day 2 compared to Day 1. however to suggest they are static is clearly false - and this is not the first time today you've shaded me in a way which is evidentially disingenuous and bad-faith.

[Battle Mage]

i think you're working under the misconception that it's null because i have no opinion. in fact, i do have plenty of opinions but the pro's broadly balanced against the con's. I don't think you're covering yourself in glory so far today, although i value the engagement.

i wasn't working under any conception because there was no explanation previously beyond, 'null'

what are some of those pros and cons

still waiting on this

keep waiting. this is fairly low on my priority list, and will wait until I'm not V/LA.

[Battle Mage]

battlemage's best posts to me were probably the one about openwolfing and the followup,

I get the sense from your responses to me that your objection to my reads are largely driven by the fact I think you might scum - you took specific objection to the fact I think either you or HUB are scum.

[Battle Mage]

I literally posted an explanation of the changes to my reads and rationale for them - are you really serious here? it's fair to say they haven't changed much from day start, given relatively little has happened thus far in Day 2 compared to Day 1. however to suggest they are static is clearly false - and this is not the first time today you've shaded me in a way which is evidentially disingenuous and bad-faith.

you had floo as null and now you have floo as town because 'gut' based on one post today

but okay continue saying i am shading you when you simply say i am 'null' based on 'pros and cons' but definitely mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, simply because the game feels like that to you

It's interesting how much shade I'm getting today for not having detailed explanations for my reads, when I haven't yet seen a strong case for Floo-scum?

I am unapologetically a player who uses logic, evidence, wagonomics and gut feeling to make my reads. If you have a personal issue with the way I play, that's completely on you - it's not alignment indicative for me.

[Battle Mage]

I get the sense from your responses to me that your objection to my reads are largely driven by the fact I think you might scum - you took specific objection to the fact I think either you or HUB are scum.

i do not understand this view of the game, and i try to ask more about it many times, but very little has helped my understanding, so

do you think it's unreasonable for me to deduce you are overly pre-occupied with perceptions of yourself, at the expense of finding mafia? that's my feeling, the more you brow-beat me about my take on you, rather than setting out your own views and justification. Particularly when you are so critical of mine.

[Battle Mage]

like it just feels like you are shading me and saying that i am shading you

i feel exactly the same way about you. the difference, i suppose, is that your shade on me has been based on weak and false premises as pointed out when they came up. It feels like OMGUS, but that in itself isn't necessarily telling about your alignment.

[Battle Mage]

It's interesting how much shade I'm getting today for not having detailed explanations for my reads, when I haven't yet seen a strong case for Floo-scum?

I am unapologetically a player who uses logic, evidence, wagonomics and gut feeling to make my reads. If you have a personal issue with the way I play, that's completely on you - it's not alignment indicative for me.

vasex's post count case is strong

i do not, i would simply like you to explain that logic evidence et cetera to me, so i can understand it, and see if it comes from a town perspective,

sorry, the case on floo is that floo didn't post much?

i admit I was intrigued when I saw Vasex argue HUB and you must be town because you posted a lot...but wasn't Vasex also on the wagon to elim the highest poster in the whole game yesterday?

As you are a logic player, and calling me out for being a gut player, I'd like to see you set out your own logic in a way I can clearly and fairly assess. No rush though!

[Battle Mage]

do you think it's unreasonable for me to deduce you are overly pre-occupied with perceptions of yourself, at the expense of finding mafia? that's my feeling, the more you brow-beat me about my take on you, rather than setting out your own views and justification. Particularly when you are so critical of mine.

yes it is unreasonable because i can be doing both at the same time, like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

you're continuing to imply my opinions have not changed here - I've already illustrated that they have. However, to be clear, it seems a ludicrous attack to have made anyway, given we're 24 hours into my first actual gameday, and I'm on limited access.

[Battle Mage]

As you are a logic player, and calling me out for being a gut player, I'd like to see you set out your own logic in a way I can clearly and fairly assess.

i do not understand why you view me this way

or what you are asking me to do

that's fine - let me be clear.

1. You explain your entire case for Floo scum.

2. Then I want to see Vasex's case for Floo scum.

3. Then I will use my logic to assess them.

I want you to do this first, given when I first asked you just deferred to Vasex.

[Battle Mage]

like you having a strong opinion that stays overtime that is restated but not explaining the reasoning,

and i know that this opinion is wrong so i try to see if it is a considered opinion but it seems to just be one that you have and are going to keep without giving reason

so that feels like mafia agenda to me

which opinion do you "know" is wrong? 1 of you or HUB being scum? Please tell me how you "know" that to be the case - I ask this without fear of fishing for role-based info you are not willing to share, given your earlier expression of support for a massclaim (which incidentally, I don't think is the best course of action today with no PRs outted).

[Battle Mage]

you're continuing to imply my opinions have not changed here

who to eliminate is the same as it was and has not been explained, why i am null or possibly scum has not been explained, and also unchanged

1. You explain your entire case for Floo scum.

2. Then I want to see Vasex's case for Floo scum.

3. Then I will use my logic to assess them.

I want you to do this first, given when I first asked you just deferred to Vasex.

i am not actively trying to eliminate floo; i simply think they are one of the three most likely mafia, based largely on lack of content

low content slots, especially those who are not actively engaging with what is happening at the time when they post as opposed to what has come before, are far more likely to be mafia

Let me put it to you that:

A. I am completely sympathetic to the idea of elimming a lurker, and have found there is good correlation between lack of activity and scum alignment amongst newbies in newbie games.

B. Notwithstanding point A, yesterday's elim was pretty gross and Floo wasn't on the wagon. My strong preference is to elim somebody who was, as there's a good chance both scum were, and I'd say it's virtually certain that 1 scum was.

[Battle Mage]

which opinion do you "know" is wrong? 1 of you or HUB being scum? Please tell me how you "know" that to be the case - I ask this without fear of fishing for role-based info you are not willing to share, given your earlier expression of support for a massclaim (which incidentally, I don't think is the best course of action today with no PRs outted).

that i am mafia if happy unbirthday boon is town, as i am town regardless of their alignment, and it does not make sense to me that my alignment is tied to theirs in your opinion

let me put it bluntly. Yesterday 3 SE's ran up a newbie who was fairly obviously town. I don't believe all 3 SE's screwed up. Additionally, from my experience, I trust my instincts, and my instincts are that there is at least one experienced player pulling the strings for scumteam here.

Don't take it personally. A combination of wagon-analysis and intuition.

[Battle Mage]

B. Notwithstanding point A, yesterday's elim was pretty gross and Floo wasn't on the wagon. My strong preference is to elim somebody who was, as there's a good chance both scum were, and I'd say it's virtually certain that 1 scum was.

i mean, sure, i can get behind kittytacky for this reason, in addition to my earlier reasoning, but i don't see how that makes floo town or not one of the three most likely mafia either

and i already said your points about openwolfing might be good, so it's just that again but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

aside from kitty, your other 2 suspects were floo and me? You're going to struggle to persuade me that I'm scum. Lack of posting from Floo isn't enough of a case for me today given how yesterday went. In a different game, different situation, maybe it would be. But not here.

I'm slightly torn on HUB. Watching the absolute railroading of a newb-town yesterday was gross. And HUB is a very good player, so it would surprise me from HUB-town. Also not keen on the quietness so far today. But it's also super conspicuous, and maybe too obvious. But then, counter-point, clearly it wasn't that obvious if I'm the only one calling it out. However, as noted, I'm willing to give HUB another day to demonstrate being town.

Tbh scum-me doesn't ever come into the game like this - my slot was pretty clean amongst a mass of utter filth. If I was scum here, I'd just cruise to a win rather than rocking the boat.

[Battle Mage]

but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

especially if partner is also off wagon,

this is just speculation though - i'm sure you could attach hypothetical motives to anybody's behaviour as town and scum. Yes, if I was scum here with say FBJim, I'd definitely be making the point that scum is on wagon. However:

1. If I'm scum with somebody who was also off-wagon yesterday, scum should win this game 9 times out of 10 without even trying. So why am I trying?
2. The point that scum is likely to be on a dodgy mis-elim is...not a controversial thing. I strongly recommend all towns treat mis-elim wagons with healthy skepticism. That's the right approach regardless of my alignment.

[Battle Mage]

He is too relaxed

HUB

for what it's worth, I wouldn't describe HUB as relaxed - maybe the opposite. HUB was absolutely frantic to get the mis-elim over the line yesterday, and has been very quiet since.

[Battle Mage]

let me put it bluntly. Yesterday 3 SE's ran up a newbie who was fairly obviously town. I don't believe all 3 SE's screwed up. Additionally, from my experience, I trust my instincts, and my instincts are that there is at least one experienced player pulling the strings for scumteam here.

game state was a factor, but yeah, probably my bad, but if going to go with 'mafia if wrong!' is ... based on my history of quite frequently being wrong; ydrasse was town, so also wrong, leaving happy unbirthday boon, which i've considered this possibility but it doesn't seem consistent with my other observations

In some ways you were less culpable right - since you didn't really go for it wholeheartedly. If anyone on that wagon had doubt, it was probably you. Although of course that begs the question - were you town having legitimate concerns, or scum who was hoping to distance from the wagon and that it would complete without you on it, but was eventually compelled to join just to get it over the line.

Tbh scum-me doesn't ever come into the game like this - my slot was pretty clean amongst a mass of utter filth. If I was scum here, I'd just cruise to a win rather than rocking the boat.

i am sure we could all say some version of this

you could meta me of course - and if you're going to indulge in wild speculation such as you have, you probably should. I'm sure anyone could try and say some version of it - however in some cases it wouldn't be as credible. What if I'd replaced into the KittyTacky-slot? or the HUB-slot? it's not the same thing.

[Battle Mage]

this is just speculation though - i'm sure you could attach hypothetical motives to anybody's behaviour as town and scum. Yes, if I was scum here with say FBJim, I'd definitely be making the point that scum is on wagon. However:1. If I'm scum with somebody who was also off-wagon yesterday, scum should win this game 9 times out of 10 without even trying. So why am I trying?2. The point that scum is likely to be on a dodgy mis-elim is...not a controversial thing. I strongly recommend all towns treat mis-elim wagons with healthy skepticism. That's the right approach regardless of my alignment.

right, so it is good to consider what seems most likely option.

1. does scum!floo/you really seem like win without trying to you? because it does not to me

2. and do you not think we are doing that with our considerations of happy unbirthday boon and kittytacky?

1. haha I'm offended. Yes, me and Floo should win this game as scum 9 times out of 10. Not a big compliment to us, more a reflection on how badly town played Day 1 if me and Floo were scum. Don't panic though - I'm town!

2. I think it applies to everybody. Hold people to account for mis-eliminations. I don't think it stops at HUB and KittyTacky - how could I be sure it isn't you? or Vasex was the other one?

[Battle Mage]

i'm really struggling with Vasex's hard-town reads on HUB and TRQ/jessie...just a different outlook i guess

[Battle Mage]

In some ways you were less culpable right - since you didn't really go for it wholeheartedly. If anyone on that wagon had doubt, it was probably you. Although of course that begs the question - were you town having legitimate concerns, or scum who was hoping to distance from the wagon and that it would complete without you on it, but was eventually compelled to join just to get it over the line.

i was town considering whether it was better to hammer wagon i didn't fully believe in but mostly understood the reason for or to move to kittytacky with fbjim

i'll probably go back and re-read the closing stages when I have more time.

I'm sure anyone could try and say some version of it - however in some cases it wouldn't be as credible. What if I'd replaced into the KittyTacky-slot? or the HUB-slot? it's not the same thing.

i meant a version applied to their slot. like why would i do X as mafia here? is very very common from all alignments

yes but the fact scum can say it doesn't mean you dismiss it out of hand. you should evaluate it on it's merits - that goes for everything. anyone can say it, but some will say it and have a strong case, others won't.

2. I think it applies to everybody. Hold people to account for mis-eliminations. I don't think it stops at HUB and KittyTacky - how could I be sure it isn't you? or Vasex was the other one?

you could evaluate my slot outside of this? it just feels like you aren't willing to evaluate me and just say i'm potentially mafia based on something i think should hold less weight than other factors,

tbh, i'm trying to focus attention on elimming my top suspect (which is not you). I am continually re-evaluating you as we talk, rest assured on that.

[Battle Mage]

for what it's worth, I wouldn't describe HUB as relaxed - maybe the opposite. HUB was absolutely frantic to get the mis-elim over the line yesterday, and has been very quiet since.

I reread HUB, it was relaxed AF especially in the beginning, when it came with voting Kitty, talking about anything, giving sides to players, making jokes about avatars, Russiablock etc.

Yeah HUB is an experienced and capable player. I don't think that player will ever going to be rattled or nervous in the very early stages of a newbie game. So what relevance does that really have? I think the bigger hurdle to overcome is whether HUB scum really goes all out to mis-elim a townie on Day 1. It's a brazen play. But in the scenario HUB is scum and did make that play, I absolutely wouldn't see his early, relatively more laissez-faire, approach to diminish that argument. I understand the read in isolation, but think it's basically a moot point in solving HUB's alignment.

The only question I have to it is about Kitty, because I neither at the start, nor in the end of the day cannot understand how he can be sure, that Kitty is townie. Especially in the beginning so fast making opinion about the unknown player.

tell me more!

"has been very quiet since" we just need to wait it to talk, this says nothing about it, you cannot judge it on this argument.

I don't disagree we should let players talk - but aren't you the one who was saying we should elim people for being quiet? i also think, in the lurking scale, being low activity throughout a game is less scummy than only avoiding the thread once you get heat.

[Battle Mage]

Is it very common here to destroy your mafia scum partner to look more townie after his death?
What is more fake here? Or maybe there are no fakes?
FBJim scumreads KT
KT scumreads Floo (and FT)
Floo scumreads KT (and Ydra)
BM scumreads KT and HUB

entirely depends on the situation, but I'd say it's much more common than it should be (i.e. scum are generally far too eager to eliminate their team-mates).

[Battle Mage]

If Kitty is townie, than mafia Floo and BM/Jim.

i know you don't want to veer from your reads, but I really don't like this. If you're town, and Kitty is town, and you survive until tomorrow, you need to be looking at EVERYBODY. - otherwise we're essentially in ExLo today because if you're wrong, scum will just keep you around to help secure the win. Being open-minded is absolutely imperative.

[Battle Mage]

Where I come from, fucking around like FT was and then waiting a long time to give a claim is... Practically an instant hang. Okay I admit the E-1 post was badly-written but how am I scummy for pushing on a borderline-trolling player who turned out to be a townie? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

why would FT not have stalled on the claim? I mean yes, it was an ill-advised approach, but the idea of mafia isn't normally that you elim people for making dumb plays if they are highly likely to be town. A policy elim on a newbie who messed up and then gave 200% to try and redeem it? No thanks!

Also, it goes without saying, but this hard-line approach contrasts STARKLY with your E-1 vote which rather implied you weren't convinced about joining the wagon at all. Your defence concerns me (for transparency, a better defence would be something like "I had genuine reservations because...", rather than "I actually had no hesitation but I inexplicably wrote a post where I pretended to do so").

[Battle Mage]

tell me more!

I don't understand what do you want to hear from me more on this topic

I don't disagree we should let players talk - but aren't you the one who was saying we should elim people for being quiet?

Strange joke, because you are trying to make HUB's and Floo's activity equal to each other, which is absurd.

On the contrary, your position is absurd to me. You are suggesting that Floo is scum because they are a newbie who don't post much, irrespective of the gamestate, but HUB is town despite lurking only when the pressure is on them. The latter is surely scummier than the former, but you ignore the latter and overplay the former.

[Battle Mage]

i'm not putting huge stock in HUB's activity level, but considering you seem to think activity is the be-all and end-all, your defence of HUB in spite of the lack of activity is baffling.

[Battle Mage]

Yeah HUB is an experienced and capable player. I don't think that player will ever going to be rattled or nervous in the very early stages of a newbie game. So what relevance does that really have? I think the bigger hurdle to overcome is whether HUB scum really goes all out to mis-elim a townie on Day 1. It's a brazen play. But in the scenario HUB is scum and did make that play, I absolutely wouldn't see his early, relatively more laissez-faire, approach to diminish that argument. I understand the read in isolation, but think it's basically a moot point in solving HUB's alignment.

When I talk about relaxing I mean not any nervous reaction on some events, I mean that mafia usually have some difficulties to talk on any ever topic. He was ready to talk the whole game and this is the style of townie.

I don't think that's true - scum generally find it easy to talk about a load of utter crap, especially in the early part of the game where it's less likely they will be held to account (because towns normally take longer to find their way on Day 1)

[Battle Mage]

Honestly if you hang me I don't mind that much, gives town more info. But get floo next if I'm hanged today.

what info do we get?

[Battle Mage]

if you do actually flip town, I will obviously look at Floo tomorrow (although I'll be looking at everyone as noted)

[Battle Mage]

Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Sorry but, as noted, that case is weak AF. And it gets weaker the more people say it, because I can understand 1 person being really obsessive over activity levels, but here we have: Vasex, TRQ and KittyTacky all saying that on Day 1, we have to elim someone solely on the basis they have the lowest post total. There is tons of the info in the game, and you even claim we'll get more info when you die - but then you actually don't seem to care about any of this info because your only scumread is the guy with the lowest post number, and even that is only something you took from Vasex.

Like, lurker-scum is a thing, but Floo has mis-elim written all over.

[Battle Mage]

in spite of the lack of activity

lack of activity only during this weekend (it warned about it) and during your v/la...

HUB just got prodded, so presumably wasn't V/LA? Or it's a Mod error.

And I can easily ignore it both with activity of Floo today for some time...
I talked about their activity in the first day.
And this is not main point for me but if imagine situation that I have no idea about who of them is more townie and more scummie I can use at least the argument about their activity which is usually works, according to my experience and hundreds of games. This is even doesn't require to know the language. Rissky but working in most of the situation Especially if we are talking only about a side of HUB

yes I do appreciate it's not easy with the language barrier, but I believe we can do better than a random punt based on post tally. Like, if there's an actual case for Floo being scum based on those posts, I'm listening. But at the moment, I see a near majority of players quite content to see Floo die for no good reason, which makes me think Floo is very likely to be town.

[Battle Mage]

I'd be concerned more than satisfied with Kitty's sacrificial comment, in that a town!Kitty should recognize the difficulty of winning 5p ELO. Multiple players have already concluded that Kitty is a forced policy elim.

I agree KittyTacky's willingness to be elimmed today without much fight isn't pro-town. Although it's not a policy elim at all - we're just elimming the scummiest player.

[Battle Mage]

Vasex, TRQ and KittyTacky all saying that on Day 1, we have to elim someone solely on the basis they have the lowest post total.

Wait a minute, this is not true. This is day two. On the first day nobody hanged anybody for the amount of posts

ah that's just a typo. should be Day 2 - but point still stands.

[Battle Mage]

(it's day 1 for me, apologies!)

[Battle Mage]

We can hang players three times.
It looks like it will be in this range: KT, Floo, HUB/BM (if Jim is townie indeed).
Till the end of the day we need to decide who is possible mafia if KT mafia and Floo townie in this range: HUB/BM.
I hope that after listening to everybodt we can solve this puzzle even without PRs, but PRs should make it much easier.

Nice try, but no - you are not removed from the potential scum pool. nor is TRQ.

And we only have 2 elims unless we get 1 right.

[Battle Mage]

HUB just got prodded, so presumably wasn't V/LA? Or it's a Mod error.

I still see no importance in that , just ignore it for a while

The reality is, it's an inconsistent standard. You accuse Floo of being scum for not posting much, but Floo is here and posting when the heat is on. HUB was supremely active at the time HUB was forcing through an elim on a townie, and having done so, has barely been present at all. On the basis of those FACTS, I don't understand how you could ever think Floo looks scummier than HUB. I've made my point so there's nothing more to say I haven't already said.

[Battle Mage]

I'd be concerned more than satisfied with Kitty's sacrificial comment, in that a town!Kitty should recognize the difficulty of winning 5p ELO. Multiple players have already concluded that Kitty is a forced policy elim.

I agree KittyTacky's willingness to be elimmed today without much fight isn't pro-town. Although it's not a policy elim at all - we're just elimming the scummiest player.

I might have my terminology wrong. What I am trying to say is that it may be wise to eliminate Kitty today because of the complications of a 5P ELO with a near-universally scumread player who might be "limbait."

In other words, very scummy players should be eliminated before ELO.

yes i agree. although it's not rocket science - just elim the scummiest player each day and you should win. but I have made the point that HUB can turn around my read on HUB. Not sure Kitty would be able to do the same.

[Battle Mage]

BM, if Floo mafia, you are the next.

I'll reiterate my previous point - from a gameplay perspective,

lining up elims like that is anti-town

(as is appearing to indicate you are tunnel-visioned and not willing to re-assess your reads). It gives scum all the info they need to choose who to kill to get the mis-elims required.

I.e. if Kitty was town, and you were right about it being Floo-FBJim, you die tonight and we are slightly more likely to lose. If you're wrong about Floo-FBJim, you don't die and you basically hand scum the win.

Also it makes it a bit pointless talking to you if you're really not thinking anymore.

All that aside, I completely get it reflects badly on me if Floo is scum and I defended Floo. But seriously - the case on Floo is worthless, so what are ya gonna do!

[Battle Mage]

BM, if Kitty is townie, Floo is mafia for you?

No. But as noted in my previous post, I'm keen we focus on today and not spend TOO much time feeding mafia info on where we might land tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

I didn't declare v/la to the mod by pm or set it in the status since I thought I'd still have time to check in, forgot it was 36 hour prods in newbie queue or I would have declared it. Anyway, I want to sit down and work out my reads which I might not have time for today, but I can describe a few key topics that have been brought up in a few hours.

I'm much more interested in your reads at this point, than a post mortem from yesterday.

[Battle Mage]

i'll catch up on the rest later i think

[Battle Mage]

Floo, do you need any answer from me on that? Or just showing to others that I can doing pocketing?

BM, I know the thing about influence of players' view on the night kills. I think it is rather early for such plans from the mafia. Their shots mostly seeking PRs.

too early for such plans? if we mess up today, it's ExLo tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

No. But as noted in my previous post, I'm keen we focus on today and not spend TOO much time feeding mafia info on where we might land tomorrow.

Why no?
And we can make fake promises for tomorrows if you are so worried about that.
By the way, it is rather weird, usually it is time to worry about that before the last night for example.

I don't really understand why it would be "yes" - are you kidding around or do you really think I believe there's a link between alignments of KittyTacky and Floo? I haven't so much as indicated that, so it's an odd question to ask me.

if i thought your promises could be fake (i don't), i'd have less of a problem with it from that perspective. and it's not weird at all - tonight could be the last night if we mis-elim today and tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

i almost do want a massclaim selfishly, just to understand who the PR(s) are, but it's a stupid idea.

[Battle Mage]

the case on floo for lurking - diminishing by the post.

[Battle Mage]

you like it? i can tolerate a policy lim in 1 situation - where the player in question is being abusive to other players and making the game unpleasant. didn't think that was the case here.

[Battle Mage]

I really don't understand why BM is so sure that Floo is townie. Could you repeat your explanation in few simple words?

yep - case on floo sucks, but general consensus is that's enough to elim - which suggests Floo is more likely town and low-hanging fruit for a mis-elim (yes, implies at least 1 of you 3 pushing this is scum, and least likely you given the others are just riding your coat-tails). Plus Floo was off-wagon yesterday, and so untainted by that mess.

[Battle Mage]

yep - case on floo sucks, but general consensus is that's enough to elim - which suggests Floo is more likely town and low-hanging fruit for a mis-elim (yes, implies at least 1 of you 3 pushing this is scum, and least likely you given the others are just riding your coat-tails). Plus Floo was off-wagon yesterday, and so untainted by that mess.

So you just DECIDED that he is townie, like imagined or smth, and you are trying to all-in on that with no good explanation?

this is a joke surely? you asked me for my reasoning, succinctly. I gave it, as quoted above. And your response is to...act as if I'd said nothing, dismissing my reasoning out of hand with a shitty snide remark?

I'm struggling to see this as town behaviour - it's the epitome of bad-faith. This is the sort of thing which I don't see Floo doing. Welcome to the scumleans - you've got plenty of company. Not that my opinion really matters much here, given there's a clear majority to elim Floo, and a near majority who won't even consider the possibility TRQ could be scum (although I'm dropping TRQ to 4th most likely scum out of 6 as I thought there was more town fire in TRQ's engagement with me, than the engagement I've had with Vasex).

Is there much point dragging the day out? I'm not a fan of losing, but it doesn't feel like there's much deciding to be done in reality, and it feels like I've made no meaningful contribution to the game despite my best efforts. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's like exactly Floo-FBJim, in which case happy to accept I was an idiot in post-game. Or maybe I'm right to have doubts about other players, but we're fked anyway.

[Battle Mage]

I checked the last games on this page
2041-2054
The rule about amount of posts is usually working (the most active persons are townies, the most active person is townie) almost every time. And I repeat I used this mostly to show that HUB is most probable townie because of that.
Looking at last games activity overview you need to take in consideration, that the total activity of players includes the dead players, so mafia there in the end of the game usually is higher than if many active townies were active alive till the end of the game. + the after game talking can have influence
Only sometimes mafia is on the top and they won in these cases (if mafia is more active than townies, then townies usually lose, this is common knowledge). At least one time I saw in this situation BM, i'm not surprised

so this is some attempt to shade me? because i played as scum in a newbie and didn't lurk like fuck. spoiler: i've lurked like fuck as scum in newbies too - even within the range of games you claim to have checked.

man this game is frustrating. I suppose half the battle of mafia is having good reads, and the other half is getting people to actually listen.

[Battle Mage]

maybe we should just mass claim. if we have masons it would help clear shit up immensely.

[Battle Mage]

maybe someone can do a table of who people won't elim today, and we can just narrow down what is even possible and then worry about what is sensible. HUB defending Kitty so hard has thrown me a bit.

[Battle Mage]

so this is some attempt to shade me?

This is not, but you are quiet shady to me in sum. Especially if I'm in scumteam for you )

that's the definition of OMGUS - and it does feel a bit like everyone I've suggested might be scum in my reads, suddenly suspects me in response, and everyone I've townread thinks I'm town. Strange how that happens.

[Battle Mage]

I repeat and repeat that the post count is mostly to show HUB is townie, but my post count everybody is trying to interpret to another output like it was my main idea of the post count (floo scum, BM scum...). No, I'm talking only about HUB and trq firstly, they were active at that moment more than the others. That's enough to seem them townie on this argument. And there are a lot of good thoughts from there side that at least I can understand and think in the same way even if it is wrong way (flow trap, Ydra...). Sounds not very good, but this is good sign on my experience to think like other players, means we are on the same side usually. There are no problems with TRQ. The only problem with HUB is in situation if Kitty is mafia after his death.

the activity thing is a lame-duck argument, which you've applied selectively to suit your own convenience - especially funny considering i've presented you with stronger arguments (for instance of Floo being more likely town) and you incorrectly claimed my arguments were crap.

if you're town, HUB and TRQ are completely in your blindspot. that doesn't mean they're scum (you could still be right!), but it does mean you really have no idea either way and have no chance of ever knowing.

the suggestion that because you mis-elimmed someone yesterday, it's likely that everyone else who did is town, just doesn't have legs with me.

[Battle Mage]

2. i told you the arguments, they were strong - you're in denial.
3. no, if you're town and right, it would be a complete fluke because you've just said they are town for no reason and turned a blind eye to any evidence to the contrary. it's the equivalent of picking names out of a hat.

i'm too tired to work out what 1 and 4 mean, so that'll do for now - i'm spent.

[Battle Mage]

no its 1am, i had a busy day, im fkin tired

what is with this bad faith stuff here? why would i need to pretend i don't understand to stall for time for a few hours?

[Battle Mage]

yes, in totality that's a much stronger argument for floo-town than your argument for floo-scum, to the extent that i don't even understand how you could be having this conversation with me if you're town. I'm not trying to MAKE floo town, I'm assessing Floo on balance. But your approach has consistently been to look at something i say, and pretend it's something it isn't, so we are just in different worlds.

[Battle Mage]

"general consensus is that's enough to elim" it can include the opinion of his partner too

i wouldn't exclude that possibility. but if Floo flips scum, I think we're on easy street (yes, you are top of my list for a partner, given how hard you've been trying to line up future elims ).

[Battle Mage]

yes floo should claim

[Battle Mage]

if I don't get hung overnight.

Too much...

[Battle Mage]

i'm coming round on Vasex. Welcome back to the townleans.

is it just Kitty-HUB?

[Battle Mage]

eh?! I was making a slightly childish joke that KittyTacky used the word "hung" instead of "hanged". (in case it's an english-only thing - "hung" means to have a large penis). Maybe not to everyone's taste in humour, but scum-indicative? Pfft gimme a break.

[Battle Mage]

Don't ask people to self-hammer, it creates a lot of wifom. I know the appeal, I've won games by scum just giving up but in a world of KT scum we want him to talk more about non-Floo slots and if he's town we want his pov.

Vasex seems pumped as town, BM doesn't feel right to me here at all.

i struggle to believe you think I'm scum here. You know me well enough to know this is 100% town me. So I don't think your take that I 'don't feel right' is genuine or has any substance behind it.

[Battle Mage]

for full disclosure HUB, I think you delayed coming into Day 2 so you could see how the land lay, and since you came in you've picked your spots opportunistically and taken every opportunity to buddy up.

contrasts significantly with me, as I've seemingly been in confrontation with pretty much everyone since joining.

you'll have to explain why you think I'm scum, in a way I find credible, for me to give it any more attention. At present, it's just shade from the sidelines.

[Battle Mage]

You are not trying to find mafia, Kitty. This is mafia thing.

Except I am. I am pushing on a non-claimer. How is that

not

trying to find mafia?

like what does the fact Floo hasn't claimed got to do with it? Is it because yesterday somebody got mis-elimmed for not claiming, and you think you can pull off the same thing here? I don't know why you'd use this terminology if you're town.

[Battle Mage]

I mean, if I'm right that 1 of the SE slots is scum, HUB has to be scum or town lose, because there's never a majority on TRQ. FBJim is almost certainly winning this game if scum, so probably writing off that possibility.

Paranoid-BM can also see a world where it's Vasex-Floo (only because Vasex's play in relation to Floo gives me the heeby-jeebies), but you have to make choices and Vasex-Floo is a less scummy duo than Kitty-HUB. And I'm definitely willing to give both an extra day anyway.

So it's really HUB or Kitty today. I'm more confident on HUB, but not gonna complain about either.

[Battle Mage]

+1 to mass-claim.

I would like to see Floo come and drop a savage hammer on you, but Floo doesn't need to claim now.

[Battle Mage]

is HUB-Floo still possible? I guess it's only really worth spending lots of time on pairings when we've flipped 1 scum or the pool is smaller.

[Battle Mage]

i struggle to believe you think I'm scum here. You know me well enough to know this is 100% town me. So I don't think your take that I 'don't feel right' is genuine or has any substance behind it.

??? I'm not reading you off meta here, you just feel off, very agenda-oriented. It feels more like you're trying to bury KT than anything else, like we're all playing mafia and you're playing Wrestlemania

You tease!

Seriously, if you're town, give me something to work with and actually talk to me, rather than this backdoor shading which is making me scumread you on top of everything else.

[Battle Mage]

It's funny you say that, because that's one of the main things that bothers me. I feel like you've been trying to pile drive a flip and are trying to push me into the flip order before you've really engaged me at all.

how is it my fault you weren't here? Plus, how much success have i had engaging anyone so far this game? It's a far cry from our last game together where people listened to me and town kicked ass!

As it is I am super backed up with this project that's due tonight, so I mostly just want to be able to look at the thread through tomorrow. But I do feel like the way you've been pushing KT feels unnatural as well. Vasex is a bloodthirsty man, I get that he wants to get on with the game, but I don't remember you feeling this way at all in that mini normal where you felt pretty chill tbh.

i was marginally more chill at times because initially I didn't care and coasted, and then later everyone just followed me, but don't think it was a big difference. and I'd be similarly chill here if I had even a glimmer of success in co-ordinating the town. My tone here is more assertive because I need to be to elim scum. In the final day of that mini normal I was frenetic in the exact same way as I have been here - because it feels like the same situation with the same urgency. If we fuck up today, it's bad news. Suspecting KT is obvious based on how yesterday went - if you don't see that, you've either got the blinkers on due to your own part in that mis-elim, or you're scum.

[Battle Mage]

Basically I would like some time to sort this out in my mind, because if Jim is town then arguing different worlds could be problematic in a world where we're both town.

i can relate to this!! It's the same as me and...pretty much everyone loud.

[Battle Mage]

god I wish I had time today, I really WANT to engage with you right now to really get a sense of my feeling on your alignment in real time, but this project is kicking my ass and this site is being an active distraction for me right now, I'm sorry I have to hold V/LA and get back to this tomorrow

do your project, we can chat tomorrow. i'm gonna go watch a detective show - maybe learn a thing or 2 myself

[Battle Mage]

the fly in the ointment Floo, is of course that Vasex is not PR fishing. Vasex specifically said you shouldn't claim and declared opposition to a mass-claim. I can buy the argument that Vasex is fairly indiscriminate with wagon choices. But I am a bit surprised you're choosing to cast the only vote for your top suspect when the alternative (joining a big wagon on your 2nd top suspect) seems more attractive.

Perhaps I'm going senile, but why can't I shake the feeling you and Vasex are interacting strangely with each other? Other than that doubt, I'm fairly comfortable with you.

[Battle Mage]

hmm reading it again, maybe it is less bad than I thought. you're not discounting a vote for Kitty, just not yet.

[Battle Mage]

it is indeed. question: if it was HUB-Kitty, wouldn't HUB's play today be basically throwing the game? I think yes, and then I wonder if that's likely?

[Battle Mage]

floo - on reflection i don't think your lack of hammer is especially scum indicative, but it is interesting.

[Battle Mage]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

you're correct - this is a scumclaim from KittyTacky. Which makes Vasex's unvote very curious.

[Battle Mage]

but, uh, kittytacky did scumclaim, right?

aye, i did see that.

[Battle Mage]

then again, i'm the only one voting kitty right?

[Battle Mage]

haven't read recent posts in full, but i've read enough to say, Vasex - if you're scum here, I tip my hat to you, what a performance! I can easily believe you are genuinely trying to solve here (which wasn't the case earlier).

will catch up in full tomorrow, but will pick up a couple easy bits tonight.

[Battle Mage]

then again, i'm the only one voting kitty right?

i didn't want hammer to happen without the posts we were waiting on, but now i will VOTE: kittytacky

yeah that's fair, i dont want a hammer now either - lots of stuff i'd like to read and potentially respond to.

[Battle Mage]

The most jarring thing for me here is, how does BM enter the dayphase having Jessie as null? At this point I feel like Jessie was the most consistently engaged and solvy player throughout day 1, I thought her handling of the hammer was good, but BM starts with Jim (???) and the dead town above her. I'm also intrigued by having Vasex as tier 2 town; like if he just seems townie why isn't he on tier 1?

Maybe BM always tries to become a leader? Smth like that. His attack was directed to SE's, and the third SE is killed by that moment. Is it common for him? I can imagine such a person, he sees himself a leader, maybe always?

it depends on the game. usually it's one extreme or the other - I either coast and do very little (more often when I'm scum, or it's a game with large number of players) or try and take a leadership role and co-ordinate things. I tend to try and take a leadership role in most newbie games though, because that's sorta my responsibility as an SE. Meta on me will confirm that, but also in fairness to HUB's response, HUB hasn't played enough games with me to have a good enough sample size to judge it.

[Battle Mage]

I have one new thought about Kitty. If he is almost destroying himself already, it usually happens to save the partner. Maybe the partner has a better role, more important role. Or just

much better player, who has more chances.
In this case HUB doesn't fit well

.

I have one new thought about Kitty. If he is almost destroying himself already, it usually happens to save the partner. much better player, who has more chances.
In this case HUB doesn't fit well.

much better player, who has more chances.
In this case HUB doesn't fit well.

much better player...HUB doesn't fit

brutal, i laughed so hard

[Battle Mage]

i'm honestly still in tears of laughter - it's the little things which make this stressful game worthwhile

[Battle Mage]

gosh these newbies are mean!

[Battle Mage]

Claim order:

Skitter
Floo
Battle Mage
LoneMarkhor

[Battle Mage]

that quickhammer yesterday was dirty. although both Vasex and HUB were responsible.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if it was HUB-Vasex - that's probably the most obvious pairing. But once claims are done, I need to re-read.

KEY THING IS (for the newbies): DON'T RUSH, and DON'T VOTE YET.

my initial thought is it's either Vasex-Floo or HUB+1. But key thing is, Floo and FBJim were not on either mis-elim wagon - meaning if they are scum, this town completely sucks and probably deserves to lose.

[Battle Mage]

with 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to make a decision.

Don't vote. 2 vs 3. 1 wrong vote and this is the end. Or at least we should vote the mafia (maybee I just did it and it wasn't the end of the game).
We need to decide where to vote today all together, no miss votes, all together.

Town would never make this mistake. I once lost a game because I didn't lynch the person who did this at LYLO then made it a dumb tell like this.

I am a vanilla townie

.

If there were masons, that means vassex and battle mage are lying.

Battle mage:

Could you please claim now? Because I think you are going to fakeclaim in case there is only one PR but you can make it two like C1 C2 setups.

Skitter:

Eh... could you claim too?

I gave a claim order for a reason. I wanted Skitter first because they are the most likely scum, me towards the end because I'm a town PR and want to see if I can catch scum in a lie, and you last because putting myself last would be too scummy and you are the most widely townread slot. But you claimed first instead which kinda kills it.

[Battle Mage]

But whatever, I think it's unlikely there are 2 PRs tbh and I don't think Floo is ever the play today. I'm the

Jailkeeper

I targetted teamrocketqueen N1, and Vasex N2

[Battle Mage]

problem is, now if we are in column 3, scum can easily claim tracker

[Battle Mage]

When is it possible to have only 1 PR? There is always two in the table. And it is said:
"The remaining six roles will be filled in by one mafia goon and five vanilla townies appropriately, to create a 2-mafia and 7-town setup."
So we have 5 vt, and four of them are dead (ft, ydra,kitty, trq). So I'm the last vt, and u the mafia. If i'm not mistaken in anything (i'm too lazy to know all rules' details and i tried to play like i know enough to seem like possible pr to get a shot).

I need to remind again, that I have no much time today and maybe tomorrow abd i'm quite out of the game since kt = vt, but it is not in my style to ask for replacement, especially in my first english game)

By the way, on this stage mafia usually tries a lot to win)

column 3 on the setup list.

[Battle Mage]

with 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to make a decision.

Don't vote. 2 vs 3. 1 wrong vote and this is the end. Or at least we should vote the mafia (maybee I just did it and it wasn't the end of the game).
We need to decide where to vote today all together, no miss votes, all together.

Town would never make this mistake. I once lost a game because I didn't lynch the person who did this at LYLO then made it a dumb tell like this.

I am a vanilla townie

.

If there were masons, that means vassex and battle mage are lying.

Battle mage:

Could you please claim now? Because I think you are going to fakeclaim in case there is only one PR but you can make it two like C1 C2 setups.

Skitter:

Eh... could you claim too?

This slightly unnerves me. Why do you think I would fakeclaim but Skitter wouldn't? Not sure I understand the difference here.

I need to remind again, that I have no much time today and maybe tomorrow abd i'm quite out of the game since kt = vt, but it is not in my style to ask for replacement, especially in my first english game)

By the way, on this stage mafia usually tries a lot to win)

Translation: Mafia tries a lot to win at this stage, but I'm not trying hard. Ergo, I'm defo town.

[Battle Mage]

earlier in the game, i actually figured if there was another PR it would be Vasex (tracker) or Ydrasse (friendly neighbour). apparently not. and clearly no friendly neighbour as the only unclaimed slots have not been defended at all really.

[Battle Mage]

now potentially if floo or skitter are scum they have to decide whether or not to counter-claim me. if there's no other PR claims, I'm conftown.

[Battle Mage]

I mean I think Skitter is always scum here, so Skitter probably has to claim PR (but if Skitter had claimed first, Skitter wouldn't know what to claim to fit with the actual PR).

Which is why claim order is SUPER important.

[Battle Mage]

I don't really mind now

[Battle Mage]

as you're here, you can claim.

[Battle Mage]

I think the strategy is probably:

1. Elim Skitter today. If Skitter is town, we lose. If Skitter is scum, there is 1 scum left.
2. I will pre-select who I will target tonight and announce in thread before we elim Skitter.
3. If I die tonight, the player I targetted will be confirmed town (because my ability would block them from killing and also stop them being killed).
4. If scum choose to No-Kill just to stall the game out, we keep no-elimming until we get down to 3 players so we are guaranteed 1 conftown in the final 3.

So basically we flip scum today, and I can effectively conftown 1 of the 3 remaining players.

[Battle Mage]

I'm Vanilla Townie.

Just wanted to make sure that the claim order wasn't too important. Given the conflicts between BM and HUB, I thought the latter's slot would be forced to claim PR here.

it was important but i got frustrated when LoneMarkhor claimed early and then i also claimed earlier than i should have. And yes I figure Skitter is likely to claim PR - although there's a question of how credible it is. Of course, Skitter could actually be a PR - but only 1 of 2 possible options. And I think it's more likely neither.

In fact, here's how it breaks down:

Skitter claims Cop - Impossible from my perspective, but it casts doubt on my claim (meaning I'm not confirmed town). Question then becomes, where are the crumbed results to prove it?
Skitter claims JK - Impossible from my perspective, but it casts doubt on my claim (meaning I'm not confirmed town). Question is then, who did they target and why - although this is less of a hard sell.
Skitter claims Tracker - This is possible from my perspective, and it confirms me as town (because given no other PR claims, the existence of a tracker confirms I am JK).
Skitter claims Friendly Neighbour - This is possible from my perspective, and it confirms me as town (because given no other PR claims, the existence of a friendly neighbour confirms I am JK).
Skitter claims VT - Also possible of course, and again confirms me as town as the only claimed PR.

But because I'm attacking Skitter, it makes more sense for them to claim Cop/JK and try to 1v1 with me. But that puts us in a great position too.

Also just occurs to me, I'll be conftown on a Skitter-flip regardless, plus I can clear 1 other player, so scum MUST kill me tonight or be mechanically guaranteed to lose (because they'd be up against 2 confirmed town players in the final 3).

Assuming Skitter is scum of course.

[Battle Mage]

forced to claim PR here, as in:
- IF Town, BM is fakeclaiming PR as scum and skitter will truthfully claim her role.
- If Mafia, skitter will probably be in a heated conflict with BM, and needs to claim PR to avoid confirming BM as town.

Of course this assumes BM + HUB is impossible.

BM + HUB is now impossible due to the claims - there must be at least 1 PR and it can only be me or Skitter.

[Battle Mage]

the replacement situation has a pro and a con if my reads are right.

pro = skitter-scum will struggle to come up with a credible fakeclaim and might make a mistake more easily.
con = Lonemarkhor-town might have wildly different reads to FBJim who was on the level.

although let's see!

[Battle Mage]

also yes it's possible I'd fakeclaim PR as scum here, but why would I? The prime elim candidates coming into today were Floo and HUB/Skitter. It makes more sense for me to claim VT, see how the land lies and decide whether or not to bus whichever one of them is my partner (if it is one!).

Me fakeclaiming PR here would be dumb because if we're in column 3 (which we would have to be if I'm scum), there's a 50-50 chance of a Cop, and if the Cop has a guilty on my team-mate, we basically lose the game if we don't get our way today. It's possible but stupidly risky for relatively little reward, and I'm not a game-thrower.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Floo

I have no much time today. I dont think HUB asked for replace if he was mafia in this situation. Though I have one susp.moment from him: he said that he understood my bloodthirsty style of game, but then he gave me the opportunity to hammer playing like it wasn't predictable for him after my promises and changing the votes. But I don't think he is mafia.
My position was at least one mafia in Floo-Kitty, and I'm going to follow this plan.
Pr(s) can change my mind.
I think that it is time for PR(s) to claim, so if anybody is interested: I'm Vanilla Townie.

Maybe BM is the partner of Floo (he demanded to hang Kitty). Maybe this was Jim...

with 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to make a decision.

Don't vote. 2 vs 3. 1 wrong vote and this is the end. Or at least we should vote the mafia (maybee I just did it and it wasn't the end of the game).
We need to decide where to vote today all together, no miss votes, all together.

Don't vote before PRs info

These are the types of incoherent posts I've wanted Vasex to explain all game. Why does town!you vote me knowing that if I am town, the game is over? Especially with yourself claiming to be an experienced player who should have this in his head throughout the day. "Pr(s) can change my mind" implies he is not 100% confident that I am scum, but instantly voting me implies he is 100% confident.

that quickhammer yesterday was dirty. although both Vasex and HUB were responsible.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if it was HUB-Vasex - that's probably the most obvious pairing. But once claims are done, I need to re-read.

KEY THING IS (for the newbies): DON'T RUSH, and DON'T VOTE YET.

my initial thought is it's either Vasex-Floo or HUB+1. But key thing is, Floo and FBJim were not on either mis-elim wagon - meaning if they are scum, this town completely sucks and probably deserves to lose.

I was surprised by how quickly Vasex/HUB were willing to vote myself. Though you have to ask yourself why they would quickhammer? At first glance this seemed very unexplained to me because Vasex was not at risk of death there, but they might've quickhammered to avoid Vasex further taking heat from me and HUB further taking heat from you.

yes I agree that's possible, although it's more likely they thought it would just be less risky to seal the mis-elim and go to ExLo and stop any PR outting results etc. But it was a mad sequence of events. I said I'm going to do some reading and post some more stuff - shortly after, random quickhammer by them both with days and days left to spare. HUB open-wolfed on Day 1 too, so it's in character.

I'm hoping really that Skitter tries to counter-claim me as we should then win even if my other read is wrong.

[Battle Mage]

with 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to make a decision.

Don't vote. 2 vs 3. 1 wrong vote and this is the end. Or at least we should vote the mafia (maybee I just did it and it wasn't the end of the game).
We need to decide where to vote today all together, no miss votes, all together.

Town would never make this mistake. I once lost a game because I didn't lynch the person who did this at LYLO then made it a dumb tell like this.

I am a vanilla townie

.

If there were masons, that means vassex and battle mage are lying.

Battle mage:

Could you please claim now? Because I think you are going to fakeclaim in case there is only one PR but you can make it two like C1 C2 setups.

Skitter:

Eh... could you claim too?

I gave a claim order for a reason. I wanted Skitter first because they are the most likely scum, me towards the end because I'm a town PR and want to see if I can catch scum in a lie, and you last because putting myself last would be too scummy and you are the most widely townread slot. But you claimed first instead which kinda kills it.

I was being suspicious that you were mafia and would say later that you were waiting to counterclaim mafia, which is what you'd have done.

One of us, that is LM/Floo/vassex is confmafia. And for me its floo/vassex. Due to the insane amounts of replacements, rereading is a pain. But from the first few pages I feel like vassex is mafia. He feels more like hanging out than solving the game. Battlemage is 90%town. I am town. Out of the other three, two are scum. Imo its skitter+vassex but I haven't read the whole thread yet.

yeah i basically agree with this. if you're mafia, i'm basically content to hand you the win at this point because you'd deserve it (given town self-destructing). always elim the scummiest player - golden rule.

Vasex and Skitter were the only players on both mis-elims (you and floo were on neither!), some of their interplay is a bit cute and this has always felt like a game controlled by scum - meaning at least 1 SE-scum as I said when I joined.

However, there is a world where it's Vasex-Floo - Vasex on Day 2 was playing so hard like it was Vasex-Floo. Skitter-Floo is also possible. But again my starting point is to punish the players who actually elimmed town, and not those who didn't.

Short answer is, I need to re-read before I vote, but it's probably Skitter-Vasex.

[Battle Mage]

what's the point in voting Floo? if Floo is scum, there's categorically no majority here.

BM has declared priority order of elims: Skitter; Vasex
LoneMarkhor has declared priority order of elims: Vasex; Skitter
Floo clearly won't vote themselves, and has indicated their top suspect is Vasex, and are open-minded to elimming Skitter.

So best case scenario, you and Skitter both vote Floo - and it's not enough for a majority.

Vasex - if you're town, and Floo is scum, you can have the credit for being right, that's fine. I get that you really want to elim Floo. But a successful elim on Floo isn't happening today. We can, and should, re-evaluate tomorrow, but today a majority of players have declared we're shooting in {Vasex-Skitter}. If you're town, don't be stubborn - make your vote for Skitter, because it's your only chance. If you don't, it'll just convince everyone more that you and Skitter are scum together.

[Battle Mage]

voting Floo is an unambiguously bad play here. if you're town, it either means you instantly lose because floo is town, or you just look scummy and get elimmed yourself.

[Battle Mage]

also if you vote Floo, we have to elim you over Skitter today.

[Battle Mage]

heya, sorry for my absence; i'm vla on fridays and saturdays and today i was mentoring a hackathon

i'm cop, and i have a guilty on vasex last night, and given that bm is obviously lying about his claim, he's like 99.9% of the time the partner

VOTE: vasex

i know i haven't been around all game but floo, lonemarkhor, i'm around now. let's talk

this is easy then! I knew I was right about HUB haha. Skitter conf-scum for today. And unanimous agreement on elimming I hope?

then I'll block Vasex tonight.

VOTE: Skitter

[Battle Mage]

we hammer Skitter

If someone dies tonight, Vasex is 100% cleared.

[Battle Mage]

Anyway he is an interesting man and it was a big pleasure to play with him)))

At least it seems for others now that we don't play in one team with you, because I could ask about it in mafia chat. So after your death you need to kill me at night, because everybody will know that you are a scum, and I am townie.
And the townie Vasex will hang your partner Floo if stays alive.

Good night

it's actually easier than that. nobody can kill you tonight, and you can't kill anybody because i'm Jailkeeping you.

so if anyone dies tonight, you are confirmed town, and scum is Floo/LoneMarkhor.

[Battle Mage]

Yes it's impossible for Cop/Jailkeeper to exist simultaneously.

BM/skitter claims do not definitely confirm any Vanilla Town claim as either town or scum from my perspective.

yeah 1 of me and skitter are definitely scum, and 1 is definitely town.

[Battle Mage]

I would favor voting Vasex here on an individual basis, but my choice has turned into a complete tossup with the PR claims.

I am NOT voting anyone soon

and need a lot of time to consider and ask questions.

that's sensible. I'm trying to work out if Vasex can be town here haha. it feels a bit like it's still just Skitter and Vasex, because this was a desperate gambit.

like nobody could ever believe HUB was Cop - where were the crumbs?

[Battle Mage]

clear on ydrasse n1, which isn't particularly helpful

ah i guess this is convenient for explaining no crumb. haha nice claim Skitter.

[Battle Mage]

heya, sorry for my absence; i'm vla on fridays and saturdays and today i was mentoring a hackathon

i'm cop, and i have a guilty on vasex last night, and given that bm is obviously lying about his claim,

he's like 99.9% of the time the partner

VOTE: vasex

i know i haven't been around all game but floo, lonemarkhor, i'm around now. let's talk

from Skitter's perspective, I should be confscum, but Skitter implies it isn't certain

- why? because it might be perceived as a little aggressive and make people look at the likelihood of a Vasex-BM pairing?

[Battle Mage]

yes, i'm claiming a red check on my buddy while forcing a 1v1 with a jk, that makes a lot of sense

yes it does, because you were both completely dead when you showed up anyway. it's a desperate last-ditch play.

i can't answer for crumbs cuz i wasn't here when hub would have made them
i can retroactively go back and look for some but honestly your guess would be as good as mine

well there wouldn't be any results to crumb because you claimed a result on a corpse only.

It would be worth Floo and LoneMarkhor going and looking at HUB's reaction to the fake PR claims on Day 1.

As I recall, HUB was not particularly phased by them, compared to other players (which implies HUB was not a PR). Additionally, HUB was generally pretty bombastic and loud. Open-wolfing I described it as. Is that the behaviour of a Cop? Rarely.

[Battle Mage]

The last one is Floo I'm pretty sure

Don't make fast votes. Now all the townies should listen to BM

In my uderstanding it is impossible for two PRs like that to exist in one game + it is impossible to check me like mafia scum, because I'm Vanilla Townie

Skitter is definite mafia, and BM now should know it.
In this game Skitter is mafia, no other options for him

Floo is 99% his partner imo

yes all townies should listen to me. I've been saying that since Day 2.

[Battle Mage]

in absolutely no universe do i fake a red check on my own buddy in a newbie game

and i was talking about cop-crumbs in general, not crumbs r.e. a specific result

run past me how it can be anyone other than Vasex? Sell me on the idea of Skitter-Floo for instance?

and let me know if you find those crumbs, or any evidence HUB was a Cop when a renegade vanilla started claiming PR for no reason? I'd expect a Cop to be skeptical.

[Battle Mage]

I would favor voting Vasex here on an individual basis, but my choice has turned into a complete tossup with the PR claims.

I am NOT voting anyone soon

and need a lot of time to consider and ask questions.

what do you need from me?

haha it might help Floo if you answer my questions.

[Battle Mage]

ok so there are 4 possible combinations:

Skitter-Vasex
Skitter-Floo
Skitter-LoneMarkhor
Battle Mage - Vasex

If Skitter is town, the scumteam can only be BM-Vasex (even though Skitter wasn't entirely honest about that). So if anyone is thinking of voting me, please take a look at my interaction with Vasex first.

The only vote today is Skitter, and then tomorrow we'll narrow the pool. I do think it's most likely Skitter and Vasex but my JK target tonight can be cleared and we have a great chance of winning.

[Battle Mage]

in absolutely no universe do i fake a red check on my own buddy in a newbie game

and i was talking about cop-crumbs in general, not crumbs r.e. a specific result

run past me how it can be anyone other than Vasex? Sell me on the idea of Skitter-Floo for instance?

and let me know if you find those crumbs, or any evidence HUB was a Cop when a renegade vanilla started claiming PR for no reason? I'd expect a Cop to be skeptical.

i mean you're scum, i don't need to sell you on why i'm partnered with your partner, or why i'm partnered with anyone else. this isn't really going to go anywhere and isn't helpful for either of us. and from your pov asking me for that is kinda ridiculous.

and i'm not planning on looking for crumbs that my pred may or may not have made, because that's silly; i have no way of knowing if they're real crumbs or not

in other words, you're scared to answer my questions because you know you're on dodgy ground fakeclaiming as scum something which doesn't accord with your predecessors play. In hindsight you would've been better off voting me, rather than tying Vasex's hands, which is why I say you've blown it.

[Battle Mage]

i literally said it was you/vasex - i'm diffrentiating between a literal red-check and a cc (although your reaction has since changed it from 99.9 to 100%) and you're acting like i'm hedging, when i'm very, very very clearly not. this is you trying to twist my words into something they're not in order to make me look bad.

there's no distinction. if you were town, you'd know i was scum because your role and mine couldn't exist together. you obviously hesitated to admit that fact because it reduces the likelihood your claim is true. You realised people would be quite willing to believe Vasex was scum, but probably a bit more skeptical that I was the partner, rather than you - given how neatly HUB and Vasex co-ordinated yesterday.

Your protestations you would never vote for your partner here just make me even more sure it's you and Vasex.

[Battle Mage]

it was a bad claim basically. your best move was to claim vanilla and try to case BM-Vasex as a team that way.

[Battle Mage]

ah no you couldnt do that, coz a vanilla claim would conftown me. ok maybe you didn't have much choice then...

[Battle Mage]

sorry Skitter, you replaced into a dead spot really. HUB open-wolfed hard to speed-lim 2 townies. If your partner is LoneMarkhor you probably still win though!

[Battle Mage]

nah, i'm saying *i don't need to* get embroiled explaining to you why you're scum because it's literally not going to help me win the game - i'm never going to be able to adequately explain to you why i'm not scum with your own partner.
i need to show floo and lm that i'm town

being unwilling to engage in conversation is generally perceived as scummy - especially avoiding questions which are key to solving your alignment. I'm asking the questions to help inform others about your alignment. You're just making an excuse to avoid questions because you know you can't answer them.

I don't have much more to say today really - the onus is on you to demonstrate you are town.

My only other bit of advice would be, we should NEVER be elimming Vasex today.

It has to be me or Skitter.

because I'm 100% sure Skitter is scum, and if I'm telling the truth, I can block Vasex tonight to confirm/refute them.

So killing Vasex makes no sense - it's Skitter or Battle Mage.

[Battle Mage]

i literally said it was you/vasex - i'm diffrentiating between a literal red-check and a cc (although your reaction has since changed it from 99.9 to 100%) and you're acting like i'm hedging, when i'm very, very very clearly not. this is you trying to twist my words into something they're not in order to make me look bad.

there's no distinction. if you were town, you'd know i was scum because your role and mine couldn't exist together. you obviously hesitated to admit that fact because it reduces the likelihood your claim is true. You realised people would be quite willing to believe Vasex was scum, but probably a bit more skeptical that I was the partner, rather than you - given how neatly HUB and Vasex co-ordinated yesterday.

Your protestations you would never vote for your partner here just make me even more sure it's you and Vasex.

no. i wasn't hedging. you're trying to blow up me noting that i didn't have a literal red check on you into something scummy, when it most certainly was not

idk what you mean by the last line, i'm literally voting for the person you're claiming is my partner

it was a mistake on your part, but the scum motivation is clear and I've explained it. I'm feeling pretty smug because I was right when everyone derided me (including the player you claim is my teammate ) - 1 SE-scum from the start.

as an aside i gotta say you're doing better than the last time i was playing against scum-you tho

Stuff like this just looks silly. Do you think these newbies are idiots who will fall for sly little remarks like that?

[Battle Mage]

i mean i can switch my vote to you, it's functionally the same thing.

and you're complaining the onus is on me to demonstrate i'm town when i'm *literally* trying to do that; answering your questions doesn't inherently help (i.e. floo and lm) with that

you will have to switch it to me. as i say, voting Vasex made no sense if you were town.

Town-Skitter claims Cop
If Town-Skitter eliminates BM-scum, Town-Skitter is CONFTOWN
Town then eliminates Vasex tomorrow and wins.

versus

Town-Skitter claims Cop
If Town-Skitter eliminates Vasex-scum, Town-Skitter COULD STILL BE SCUM
Town-Skitter then also has to avoid another ExLo tomorrow to get the win.

Which is why,

if Skitter was town, Skitter should ALWAYS have voted me, instead of Vasex. Because eliminating me would win the game, and eliminating Vasex wouldn't.

[Battle Mage]

That was the biggest mistake on your part actually. Skitter is an experienced player, and would know to always elim the counter-claim before the guilty investigation in that situation.

Why would Skitter make that mistake? Because Skitter is NOT town, and -perhaps- because Skitter was more focussed on trying to discredit me, whilst also distance from Vasex to overcome the consensus that it was Vasex-Skitter.

[Battle Mage]

i literally have a red check on him, how can you possibly argue that it makes no sense to vote him.
from my pov they're now functionally equivalent ...

if you were town, elimming me guarantees you a win. elimming vasex doesn't. So they are not even close to equivalent! And you should always elim me first.

you didn't think of this because you AREN'T TOWN.

and incidentally the fact I'm coaching you about this, is further evidence I'm town (because if I was scum, I'd be literally helping you correct a bad mistake to beat me).

[Battle Mage]

it's a bad error Skitter. if you were town, you'd elim me to win the game, not elim Vasex to set up a risky Ex-Lo where you aren't confirmed.

[Battle Mage]

Elim Skitter today
I'll block Vasex tonight
Then we see what tomorrow brings.

[Battle Mage]

eliming you first is from my pov functionally equivalent - you're both literally scum

no skitter, not if you were town and actually wanted to maximise your chances of winning the game. You're an experienced player and pretending you don't know this is ludicrous. You'd have been better off just admitting it was a mistake and making an excuse, rather than denying it.

also i didn't read everything (just like first 5 pages and last five pages) but vasex was in a decent spot going into the day? like why would i even blow that up this way ...?

yes i figured you hadn't read, because if you'd read the game you'd know that HUB clearly wasn't a Cop, and never have fakeclaimed it.

Claiming here that you thought Vasex was in a "decent spot" before your claim is ridiculous, when a few posts prior I had broken down how Vasex (and secondary, you) was the consensus elim for today. I can only assume you did this as a desperate attempt to change the narrative amongst all others players that you and Vasex are the 2 scum.

[Battle Mage]

Floo, LoneMarkhor - I know these situations are not easy, so please take your time and read all my posts over the last 2 pages carefully. i think i've given you what you need to make the right decision.

[Battle Mage]

Skitter claims on this page she thought Vasex was in a "decent spot" before her claim. See below:

Post 1194 - Skitter claims guilty on Vasex.
Post 1191 - BM sets out how every other player thinks Vasex is scum.

3 posts earlier!!! Please don't tell me Skitter, who claimed to read the previous 5 pages, could have genuinely missed that.

Spoiler:

what's the point in voting Floo? if Floo is scum, there's categorically no majority here.

BM has declared priority order of elims: Skitter; Vasex
LoneMarkhor has declared priority order of elims: Vasex; Skitter
Floo clearly won't vote themselves, and has indicated their top suspect is Vasex, and are open-minded to elimming Skitter.

So best case scenario, you and Skitter both vote Floo - and it's not enough for a majority.

Vasex - if you're town, and Floo is scum, you can have the credit for being right, that's fine. I get that you really want to elim Floo. But a successful elim on Floo isn't happening today. We can, and should, re-evaluate tomorrow, but today a majority of players have declared we're shooting in {Vasex-Skitter}. If you're town, don't be stubborn - make your vote for Skitter, because it's your only chance. If you don't, it'll just convince everyone more that you and Skitter are scum together.

heya, sorry for my absence; i'm vla on fridays and saturdays and today i was mentoring a hackathon

i'm cop, and i have a guilty on vasex last night, and given that bm is obviously lying about his claim, he's like 99.9% of the time the partner

VOTE: vasex

i know i haven't been around all game but floo, lonemarkhor, i'm around now. let's talk

[Battle Mage]

skitter knew at the time of her claim, that Skitter and Vasex was the consensus scumteam. she has LIED and said she did not think that was the case.

[Battle Mage]

when i said i read the last five pages, i meant that i read the last 5 pages of day2. don't put words in my mouth

you mean you didnt read the post 3 posts above you? you just went back to the end of Day 2 and ignored the start of Day 3 entirely in forming a judgement about what the consensus opinion was?

Nonsense.

[Battle Mage]

Ok then, remind me why you targetted Vasex last night, if you thought Vasex was a consensus townread?

if you were a cop, you would investigate somebody who is a consensus scumread, NOT somebody you thought was consensus town,

because they would be more likely to get NKed.

Ya know, like your first alleged target was...

[Battle Mage]

hard to believe Skitter-cop, with no info going into Ex-Lo, makes an error of targetting someone they believe could be a prime NK target to investigate, risking no hard info in ExLo.

[Battle Mage]

ok so let's No-Elim again, this time I'll target Floo.

So if there's a kill, Floo is conftown.

Vote: No Elim

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: no elim

using proper tags

also if we can all do 'fast night' that will speed things up

[Battle Mage]

the rationale for no elim is there's no point us taking a gamble with 1 conftown and 3 potential scum, when we could have 1 conftown and only 2 potential scum. so we should force scum to get us into that latter scenario.

[Battle Mage]

no im blocking

Floo

tonight. need to clear 1 of you 2.

[Battle Mage]

Vasex, I blocked you last night, so either you're scum, or scum chose to no-kill to make you look like scum. what would i achieve by blocking you again?

[Battle Mage]

if scum just choose to no-kill we end up in a stalemate where neither team wins. I guess eventually they'll be forced to make a kill if they can.

[Battle Mage]

I would say as a genuine ask - whoever is scum shouldn't no-kill because it just drags the game out. we're not going to elim until there's a kill.

[Battle Mage]

I'm

blocking LoneMarkhor

tonight. so LoneMarkhor can be conftown in the final 3 and we can finish the game. My opinion is Vasex is scum, but happy for Vasex-Floo to fight it out.

[Battle Mage]

I'm

blocking LoneMarkhor

tonight. so LoneMarkhor can be conftown in the final 3 and we can finish the game. My opinion is Vasex is scum, but happy for Vasex-Floo to fight it out.

[Battle Mage]

Im ready to hang myself if you block floo at night and u hang him
Just give me two votes,boys

actually that achieves the same goal but quicker. good thinking batman!

VOTE: Vasex

[Battle Mage]

man this just means the pressure is on me though haha

[Battle Mage]

Dont vote non elim
Bm made huge mistakes with telling who would be blocked and with non-elim today. Huge mistakes. If i will be hanged tomorrow instead of today we will lose

eh, not huge mistake - but your suggestion is better

[Battle Mage]

i'm not reading the rest of that Vasex spamfest haha

[Battle Mage]

i know

[Battle Mage]

i'm actually a cop, i was just trolling you this whole time

[Battle Mage]

Skitter is nice too. This was her plan to say that im checked as mafia, very clever move. It is pity that it didnt work out

Skitter never had a chance to be fair, but it was a hilariously transparent gambit. Not a knock on her, as she didn't have many options and it was a horrible spot to replace into. I'm surprised she did the kill that night though - I assumed if you were scum, you would do it, hence blocking you.

You played well - you looked very townie on Day 1, pretty scummy early on Day 2 and then you turned it round. 11/10 for enthusiasm too. But my reads were broadly right at the start. The problems you faced, in order:

1. The way yesterday ended with a 2 player quickhammer after I said I wanted to say more, looked like it had to be choreographed.
2. Your interaction with Floo made it look like you 2 could be scum together (which didn't help you as Floo looked too clean).
3. In general, too many townies looked really townie and you didn't have enough mis-elim opportunities - which is why HUB had to open-wolf on Day 1. In particular, you and HUB were on every mis-elim, and the other surviving townies were never on any.
4. Not outting the PR until too late.

[Battle Mage]

it's not too late to concede btw? take your fate into your own hands

[Battle Mage]

She couldnt come earlier for real thats the main problem. She tried so hard and i think that she looked good in that situation, dont blame her

true, maybe if she'd been on the offensive early she could've done something

[Battle Mage]

also your lurker cases man haha

[Battle Mage]

haha you can tell the mod you give up, now you've claimed scum, and the game will just end

[Battle Mage]

if we can't manage to elim claimed scum on the final day, i'm retiring from mafia.

[Battle Mage]

is that all you got Floo?

[Battle Mage]

ah man I can't believe Vasex trolled like that.

Is Floo just rolling over then? Dunno why he didn't concede if that was the plan.

[Battle Mage]

yep skitter you did a good job with vasex. although as it played out it was probably inevitable. always elim a player who claims scum.

was a good fun game. i don't understand how it even ended up being close but Floo played brilliantly, and could have won it at the end.

[Battle Mage]

LOL at Ydrasse accidentally crumbing PR. As I said at the time, it was lucky scum killed you, because if you'd claimed VT, you'd have been chopped.

Mod PT was a particularly fun read.

[Battle Mage]

Ya as soon as you said it was me/vasex i just started laying it on as thick as i could, and i greatly enjoyed watching it play out

Was fun playing with you, we should try to be tvt sometime

yep, i think there was a bit of confirmation bias on my part too - given the previous day had ended with a quickhammer by HUB and Vasex, the idea they orchestrated it together just felt right.