Newbie 2067 - Pizza! - End!

[HockeyFan]

Hey everyone! Glad to be playing some fourm mafia! First time playing and super exicted

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

[HockeyFan]

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

[HockeyFan]

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I'm very confident winning this game now because you have outed as scum by voting me so the 2 mafia are already outed to me

[HockeyFan]

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

Honestly, it's hard to be confident at this stage, but Luke is a pretty good player, so if he's on the Town side I'm pretty optimistic

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I would say decently confident. I am coming into this game off of a pretty good game. Town win on Day 2

On the other hand, it would be hilarious if he were the scum this game

Oh Zyla, must we always be on opposing sides?

This pings me as being a partnery interaction/maybe a pocket from Luke, possible scum in these 2

[HockeyFan]

Yeah, it depends on the particular game too, but it can be pretty fun

Spoiler: snip

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

Honestly, it's hard to be confident at this stage, but Luke is a pretty good player, so if he's on the Town side I'm pretty optimistic

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I would say decently confident. I am coming into this game off of a pretty good game. Town win on Day 2

On the other hand, it would be hilarious if he were the scum this game

Oh Zyla, must we always be on opposing sides?

This pings me as being a partnery interaction/maybe a pocket from Luke, possible scum in these 2

Nah, we just finished Newbie 2065 so we're joking about it

Ahh Ok so its a meta read? Makes a little more sense, although I still SR luke a bit(less than before AND almost leaning null rn), because thier opening didnt sound that genuine from a townie perspective

[HockeyFan]

So I take it this is the point where the game goes from silly and random talk to about the game at hand?

yes! Would love to hear some of your reads(If you have them)

[HockeyFan]

Ahh Ok so its a meta read? Makes a little more sense, although I still SR luke a bit(less than before AND almost leaning null rn), because thier opening didnt sound that genuine from a townie perspective

For reference, in our last game zyla was scum, and I caught her because she kept mentioning masons, and I realized she was mason hunting.

Got it, thanks! Yea so that post is now NAI to me

[HockeyFan]

you guys have reads already?

Definitely not conclusive reads, but I think you are town(See post#18). This is the only conclusive read I have. The earlier read I did have of Luke maybe pocketing Zyla has now been sent to null, wbu? Do u have any reads

[HockeyFan]

I meant the only semi-conclusive read ^^

[HockeyFan]

i like haschel a little less for the vote

strangematter, i think haschel wants your attention

What part of the vote did you not like?

[HockeyFan]

i guess it's a natural progression of asking a question and not getting an answer so maybe it's okay

i just think haschel might know give a newbie a little slack when it comes to not answering but maybe now strangematter will answer

I gave some slack, thus the empty quote.

Now let's be proactive.

I think this mindset is super towny. While I dont necessarily Strange is scum(null leaning atm), thats a town mindset from haschel and gets a lean TR from me(Tbf, I am not sure if this is smth he can do as scum)

[HockeyFan]

Speaking of this RVS vote, I think strange and luke actually have some pairing here. When Haschel asked the question "Why Hockeyfan", Luke decided to interject(post 24), and that feels like a very partnery thing to do when he could have just ignored it.

With that being said, i think it is time to vote Luke

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lukewarm

Counterwagon this ASAP

[HockeyFan]

Honestly, I was expecting to have to wait until IRL tomorrow to have some reads either direction, but I guess I got a strong one early.

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

I find it interesting that you mention my question but don't actually respond to either of them

I mentioned it because I was going to ask the "Do you like pineapple on pizza" question and it seemed completely NAI but I wanted to see a reaction by voting u. I didn't bother to respond to the other one. I do not know why ignoring a RQS post is scum leaning?

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

What makes Dragon town from this post? If anything the wording is slightly off for town

ehhh while the wording may be off, I think his original post was towny enough and this read was pretty lackluster anyways so theres no need to pay too much attention to it

Counterwagon this ASAP

What do you mean by this?

There were a few votes on the table(cant exactly remember who), but none of them were on Luke and I thought Luke was scummy so I wanted to counterwagon Luke

Also, speaking about SVD:I did call him town earlier but after seeing post#52 and post#56 idk about that anymore, He was trying to soft defend his possible scum partner so SVD is back to null leaning scum. I also really liked this questioning by Zyla and I feel like scum dont try to push on someone who was already TR'D by 1-2 people.

[HockeyFan]

you can call me STD i don't mind

ngl, It didnt even occur there was a T in your name, I just saw a V for some reason, sorry about that!

[HockeyFan]

Uh I sporadically play on mafia.gg. I've been on the site for a year now, but haven't played that much on it. I guess you can say I have a little bit of experience with Mafia?

[HockeyFan]

HockeyFan, I am trying to follow your read progression on STD. Can you explain it more. You gave him a really early "confident town read," then backed it off of it with

Also, speaking about SVD:I did call him town earlier but after seeing post#52 and post#56 idk about that anymore, He was trying to soft defend his possible scum partner so SVD is back to null leaning scum. I also really liked this questioning by Zyla and I feel like scum dont try to push on someone who was already TR'D by 1-2 people.

Who is he protecting there? Strangematter? Do you even scum read Strangematter? I thought I was your strongest scum read, at least you are voting me, so then why would you be of particularly suspicious of his interaction with Strangematter and haschel?

Can you walk me through your thinking?

Ok so, I town read STD because of post#13. That post had the aura of being "I am town, I'm confident and I am going to win this game for town". My read switched on him because of posts #52 and #56 where he said "strangematter, i think haschel wants your attention" and "i just think haschel might know give a newbie a little slack when it comes to not answering". These 2 statements feel like very mafia partnery like to relieve some pressure

As of right now, Strangematter is a null read for me(maybe leaning scum), You are my strongest scum read, so does that mean i'm not allowed to see other pairs in partnership because fwiw the strangematter/STD pair seemed very likely. I was suspicious because I have 0 idea why STD Needs to intervene their. Like my SR'S rn are You -> STD -> StrangeMatter. Hope this helps. and btw, My read on u might change back to null soon based on the

interactions between strange and STD

I am gonna get off for now, so i will be answering questions tmr morning

[HockeyFan]

Honestly, I was expecting to have to wait until IRL tomorrow to have some reads either direction, but I guess I got a strong one early.

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

I find it interesting that you mention my question but don't actually respond to either of them

I mentioned it because I was going to ask the "Do you like pineapple on pizza" question and it seemed completely NAI but I wanted to see a reaction by voting u. I didn't bother to respond to the other one. I do not know why ignoring a RQS post is scum leaning?

Ignoring is NAI, but mentioning it and not responding seemed a little off to me.
I would still like to know though, do you prefer mafia or town?

I prefer town

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

What makes Dragon town from this post? If anything the wording is slightly off for town

ehhh while the wording may be off, I think his original post was towny enough and

this read was pretty lackluster anyways so theres no need to pay too much attention to it

(Unbolded then rebolded for emphasis)
Honestly, while I'm not going to remember every read in the game, I don't think I want to just dismiss one, they can be pretty important

Fair enough but I dont think a read 13-15 posts into the game should be substantive late game but thats just me?

Counterwagon this ASAP

What do you mean by this?

There were a few votes on the table(cant exactly remember who), but none of them were on Luke and I thought Luke was scummy so I wanted to counterwagon Luke

I'm not entirely sure you understand wagons

Ok you may be right in saying I dont, Instead of using "counterwagon", I'll just say I wanted to vote them because of the reasons above

[HockeyFan]

I'm really not too sure about HockeyFan. To me he seems Town, but I'm very leaning away with his partner reads right now. will bet on saying Zyla's a decently good town read, as much as I wish we had scumreads, this is the best we can do.

This game has been a messy and not too great for me. For now, good night.

What is wrong with partnery reads? Imo you and Luke were paired because of his post #24. Also your response to Haschel's questioning seemed a bit off(More null than scummy) but still a bit scummy.


As for Azeru's and cyrus's opening, Azeru's was maybe town leaning? And Cyrus's posts were interesting, I really don't know how to gauge them just yet, so hes probably null rn

[HockeyFan]

See post 86. So @HockeyFan, can you please explain why you think Luke would be scum defending me here?

Correct me if I am wrong but Luke is more experienced than you?(At least that is why what I think). I think Luke “defends” in an attempt to explain your RVS vote on me when Hachel started questioning you in 19 and 23 when he could just have ignored it. Furthermore, both of you are individually scummy. You for your reaction to some pressure from Haschel and Luke for not being genuine enough through his first few posts.

[HockeyFan]

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

[HockeyFan]

HockeyFan, I am trying to follow your read progression on STD. Can you explain it more. You gave him a really early "confident town read," then backed it off of it with

Also, speaking about SVD:I did call him town earlier but after seeing post#52 and post#56 idk about that anymore, He was trying to soft defend his possible scum partner so SVD is back to null leaning scum. I also really liked this questioning by Zyla and I feel like scum dont try to push on someone who was already TR'D by 1-2 people.

Who is he protecting there? Strangematter? Do you even scum read Strangematter? I thought I was your strongest scum read, at least you are voting me, so then why would you be of particularly suspicious of his interaction with Strangematter and haschel?

Can you walk me through your thinking?

Ok so, I town read STD because of post#13. That post had the aura of being "I am town, I'm confident and I am going to win this game for town". My read switched on him because of posts #52 and #56 where he said "strangematter, i think haschel wants your attention" and "i just think haschel might know give a newbie a little slack when it comes to not answering". These 2 statements feel like very mafia partnery like to relieve some pressure

As of right now, Strangematter is a null read for me(maybe leaning scum), You are my strongest scum read, so does that mean i'm not allowed to see other pairs in partnership because fwiw the strangematter/STD pair seemed very likely. I was suspicious because I have 0 idea why STD Needs to intervene their. Like my SR'S rn are You -> STD -> StrangeMatter. Hope this helps. and btw, My read on u might change back to null soon based on the

interactions between strange and STD

I am gonna get off for now, so i will be answering questions tmr morning

Who is scummier, STD or StrangeMatter?

Strange Matter is the scummier one right now but STD is very close to being as scummy Strange rn(although as of right now, the read on STD can change a ton based on their next few posts, unlike the Strange SR from me rn)

[HockeyFan]

i like zyla for town

i still want that pizza really bad

[HockeyFan]

@hockey why the need to defend rvs normally gos till page 10 but you feel like your worried do you have something to hide.

No, definitely not

[HockeyFan]

^ Another intresting thing that makes the Strange Matter/Lukewarm pair plausible is that they have the same reads...?

[HockeyFan]

Yea sorry about that should have clarified, the arrows in between STD and Strange dont necessarily mean "This person is wayyyyy scummier". I just used that list as "possible 3 scum fmpov". That list is interchangeable especially STD and Strange

[HockeyFan]

Yea thats fair enough, we might have different experiences on that topic. From my experience, most mafia like to align very subtly on d1 but that could be a different meta on this site. Sorry if the read came off as "You are mafia with Luke and nothing can change that"

[HockeyFan]

When did I ever say Strange isn't scum? I still do think Luke,Strange and STD are possible scum here with some pairs of STD/Strange and Luke/Strange

[HockeyFan]

So is your list interchangeable or not?

Pretty much, It is, but the position of Luke will LIKELY not change due to him being individually scummier

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: hockeyfan you real sem to be freaking out. 3 scums? its a 2 scum game for newbie.

I am no idea what this means? If I find 3 scummy people in a game with 2 mafia, how does that make a difference. The list there is of POSSIBLE mafia. Ofc, from my pov, as of rn 2 of those 3 are mafia and there are certain pairs within these 3 which I have highlighted in 128

[HockeyFan]

Unvote, Vote HockeyFan

Whats the point of putting me at E-1 so early?

[HockeyFan]

Speaking of reads, can I hear more from Azeru/Pawoski? I don't have anything on these 2(mainly Pawoski) since they've posted about combined 10 times

[HockeyFan]

[quote="In post 145, Lukewarm"][/quote]

I admit the whole "you guys are partners" read was based on very few things, post#24 just seemed odd to me. I SR u 2 indiually and while going through liogs I saw this and I was like "Hey, possible partners?". That partner association is gone from my head BUT you 2 still are scummy and CAN be partners but not because of 24

As for 147, again maybe its different expereinces but most poeple I've played with dont want to see their mafia partner condemmed d1(including me)

[HockeyFan]

Oops I messed formatting

[HockeyFan]

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

I feel like you are ignoring the fact that most partners are actually going to be trying to distance from one another, no step in to defend the other one on page 1 of the thread lol

I feel like partners more often list eachother as a weak scum lean. So they don't look like partners, but they generally have 2~3 people listed as scummier so that they can have the scum lean on them without ever pushing on them.

Okay so your light TR on me and TR on zyla in 46 and Strange's TR's on 93 seem oddly similar?

[HockeyFan]

snip

I admit the whole "you guys are partners" read was based on very few things, post#24 just seemed odd to me. I SR u 2 indiually and while going through liogs I saw this and I was like "Hey, possible partners?". That partner association is gone from my head BUT you 2 still are scummy and CAN be partners but not because of 24

As for 147, again maybe its different expereinces but most poeple I've played with dont want to see their mafia partner condemmed d1(including me)

Inwardly, that's true, but a good scum player isn't going to show it. If they think that it's guaranteed that their partner is going to be eliminated they'll vote for them, if they don't they'll try and shift suspicion onto someone else.

Neither of them have shifted suspicions onto others yet tho? so idk just seems odd they have the same reads and likewise don't have much SR'S. Probably an agreesive+passive mafia team

[HockeyFan]

snip

I admit the whole "you guys are partners" read was based on very few things, post#24 just seemed odd to me. I SR u 2 indiually and while going through liogs I saw this and I was like "Hey, possible partners?". That partner association is gone from my head BUT you 2 still are scummy and CAN be partners but not because of 24

As for 147, again maybe its different expereinces but most poeple I've played with dont want to see their mafia partner condemmed d1(including me)

Inwardly, that's true, but a good scum player isn't going to show it. If they think that it's guaranteed that their partner is going to be eliminated they'll vote for them, if they don't they'll try and shift suspicion onto someone else.

Neither of them have shifted suspicions onto others yet tho? so idk just seems odd they have the same reads and likewise don't have much SR'S. Probably an agreesive+passive mafia team

Are you reading my posts? You are so focused on finding partners protecting eachother, that you missed that I am currently pushing Strange

I voted for Strange because of them saying we should not focus on town reads. Which I do not like. Town reads are just as good as scum reads. In the very last game I played, on Day 2 I managed to get strong town reads on 3 other players, and that is enough to win the game, because we had enough eliminations that worst case scenario, we could eliminate everyone outside the town block before we lost. Town Blocks are powerful for town, and the scum can and should do everything they can to keep them from forming - hence my vote on Strange there.

I am reading your posts. Just because you push someone early d1 does not mean you are not paired with them. Once again if you read "That partner association is gone from my head" from my earlier post, you would understand that I still think you 2 are individually scummy but you thinking pushing someone early d1 completely "disassociates" you from them is smth I do not understand?

[HockeyFan]

I am reading your posts. Just because you push someone early d1 does not mean you are not paired with them.

I never said that me pushing them would stop me from being able to be their partner...

I am saying that when you said

Neither of them have shifted suspicions onto others yet tho?

I sure did read like you were completely ignoring my push on Strange.

Yea sorry about that, I did read some of it and didnt see you majorly push them, thats my L but it doesn't change any of my points above

[HockeyFan]

Also this discussion about "claiming PRS or VT" and "forcing people to claim PR" is not beneifical to town. I do agree it in about some esne that people who are at E-1 should claim but this discussion shouldnt exist. Minor town points to Strange for 177

[HockeyFan]

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

[HockeyFan]

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

[HockeyFan]

@HockeyFan what’s your opinion of the game so far?

Idk what u mean by "opinion". You asking for my reads or just my general opinion of the game?

[HockeyFan]

@HockeyFan what’s your opinion of the game so far?

Idk what u mean by "opinion". You asking for my reads or just my general opinion of the game?

Opinion of the game so far.

Okay well its been a pretty fun game, everyone has been chill, and there have been some productive comments/reads which I have been able to make reads of. I didnt think cyrus's "reaction test" was needed and it was a waste of time, but I'm still leaning null on him

[HockeyFan]

@HockeyFan what’s your opinion of the game so far?

Idk what u mean by "opinion". You asking for my reads or just my general opinion of the game?

Opinion of the game so far.

Okay well its been a pretty fun game, everyone has been chill, and there have been some productive comments/reads which I have been able to make reads of. I didnt think cyrus's "reaction test" was needed and it was a waste of time, but I'm still leaning null on him

oh are you trying to shad . i think i found some town with that reaction test . makeing it easyer for me to short

No, I'm not trying to shade you, while u may have found some town from that reaction test, most of the posts were NAI. If this is your way of scumreading, then thats fine but It was not smth I do/was expecting.

[HockeyFan]

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said

a bit of

and thats not even the main content of my post

Pedit: Okay Cyrus didnt post. Why does that change that your push was meh and based on other ppl pushing me?

[HockeyFan]

@HockeyFan what’s your opinion of the game so far?

Idk what u mean by "opinion". You asking for my reads or just my general opinion of the game?

Opinion of the game so far.

Okay well its been a pretty fun game, everyone has been chill, and there have been some productive comments/reads which I have been able to make reads of. I didnt think cyrus's "reaction test" was needed and it was a waste of time, but I'm still leaning null on him

oh are you trying to shad . i think i found some town with that reaction test . makeing it easyer for me to short

No, I'm not trying to shade you, while u may have found some town from that reaction test, most of the posts were NAI. If this is your way of scumreading, then thats fine but It was not smth I do/was expecting.

i have to change the way i play. every game other wise people use meta.

Makes sense

[HockeyFan]

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said a bit of and thats not even the main content of my post

So far I have TR on you early, and then been engaging with you logic. I think that your logic has been.. not great, but I am not really sure if that is from you being scum or just because this is your first game on site. I have mainly been pushing back on it, because I was hoping you would see that the logic was faulty, and look over the game with fresh eyes. But I think that the more I have pushed on it, the more you have tunneled on it which... also not great

My town lean on you is weaker at this point then it was early, but your early stuff really did ping me as town

I get what you mean by "look over the game with fresh eyes" but I think i have done that somewhat? I said the pair of Luke/Strange probs doesnt exist anymore and even gave town points to Strange and started SR'ing Zyra in the last few posts. Im not sure on my SR on STD anymore as they havent posted alot, but I think their scuminess has gone down a bit. To Re-Iterate, I do not think I am tunneling that bad and have made new reads as the game progresses

[HockeyFan]

Spoiler: snip

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said

a bit of

and thats not even the main content of my post

Pedit:

Okay Cyrus didnt post. Why does that change that your push was meh and based on other ppl pushing me?

I don't have any more response to this. My first post about you had enough information that saying it was only based on other people pushing you just seems insincere.

Okay it may not be

only

, but it was defintely based somewhat on other peoples reads?(may be wrong on this)

[HockeyFan]

Spoiler: snip

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said

a bit of

and thats not even the main content of my post

Pedit:

Okay Cyrus didnt post. Why does that change that your push was meh and based on other ppl pushing me?

I don't have any more response to this. My first post about you had enough information that saying it was only based on other people pushing you just seems insincere.

Okay it may not be

only

, but it was defintely based somewhat on other peoples reads?(may be wrong on this)

Nope, just you

Okay if that is the case, then I rescind some of my SR on u but i think you still may be possible scum because your only read is that I am scum

[HockeyFan]

Okay if that is the case, then I rescind some of my SR on u but i think you still may be possible scum because your only read is that I am scum

I think that you have higher expectations for read quantity then most people have at this point.

We are still less then 24 hours into Day 1, which is 10 days long. I know that my reads are still forming, and we have plenty of time, so I don't see the point of rushing them.

Meh, probably a difference in playstyles. I like to make a lot of rapid-fire reads(that can change over time) to get reactions which possible give me more reads. Your playstyle is more laid back and you like to make concretet reads which is fine. Fwiw, I think playstyles are basically NAI

[HockeyFan]

pav pins me as scum

I dont like this at all. Pav has made about 1-2 reads and his read on u was pretty genuine and came from a town perspective so what part of their reaction do u think is scum?

[HockeyFan]

pav pins me as scum

I dont like this at all. Pav has made about 1-2 reads and his read on u was pretty genuine and came from a town perspective so what part of their reaction do u think is scum?

they dont post much and it seems they are looking for easy votes trying to get a mis lynch

What "easy" votes are they going for exactly? They have had 2 total votes. Their vote on Luke was a RVS vote and their vote currently on u is not at all an easy vote IMO and they did give some townie reasoning for their vote

[HockeyFan]

You quoted the 2nd part of that to do what ... exactly?

[HockeyFan]

btw to answer Azeru's question I don't understand this logic. "You might be scum because you think I'm scum" in 237

Yes I thought she was scum for thinking I was scum. She tunneled on me very hard and before her newest post 240, She didnt really interact with much people other than maybe Lukewarm(first 2 pages)

[HockeyFan]

I nominate that we move on from this discussion with Cyrus about his antics here. His schtick is weird but we all get the point.

Scum or not, getting wrapped around the axle this way is not pro-village

This seems pretty fuckin towny. town points from me, But quick question, how are u planning to be proactive and move on from cyrus. u have any reads to share with us?

[HockeyFan]

i am very disappointed in a few here which has me marking them as null

Do you have any SR's or is it basically like "Hockey, Luke town" and everybody else is null right?

[HockeyFan]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80202 here i realy didnt want to do this but here is how i act as scum. you will see a more focus less wild side.

?? Idk why you're using this as a way to "defend yourself"/give Pav a way to read u since u said in posts 205 and 224, "I change my meta every game"

[HockeyFan]

Do you normally change in ways that make you harder to sort in your current game?

cant answer that.

Considering that this is a newbie game and you are not a Jester, I see no way that that makes sense. How could being seen as scummy be good for you?

Can't fully answer this yet

wild

i cant answer this right now.

?? Idk why you're using this as a way to "defend yourself"/give Pav a way to read u since u said in posts 205 and 224, "I change my meta every game"

i cant answer this right now.

Ok so since this seems to be your main answer to questions, how about you just tell us what you can answer?

i can give a hint i am pro town.

?? What hint? It seems you are trying to dodge questions by not giving complete answers

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: azeruitch ant matter train once wrong next top raindrops at cooking kites everybody runs. i like playing scum i also like playing town . i dont like pineapples on my pizza. sorry kid was typing stuff at random didnt have the heart to remove it. also there's my rvs

the words when used right spell something

iI'm not here to decipher random words and even if I do decipher these words it doesn't make u "pro-town". u have anything else to prove you're being pro town?

[HockeyFan]

What do you think Mafia will do in this current situation.

I dont like this question much tbh. I think hes just baiting answers from certain town members SO him(less likely) or his maf partner can start not doing these things

[HockeyFan]

this game has new pages

cyrus isn't the play today

i still like hockey for town, i like the way he is engaging the game, it just feels like it's coming from town. same with zyla. luke's push on strangematter seems legit.

i'm less convinced about haschel atm. i want to hear more from azeru. i don't quite like 268 i get that it's early and not based on much but it does seem a little forced. strangematter is null for me.

i think that's where i'm at

Save the Dragons has only said positive things about me, starting with an early TR in post 51, might be a pocket attempt?

I like this proactiveness from Luke here. But eh I wouldnt go as far as to call it a "pocket" as of rn

[HockeyFan]

I think Im at a point in the game where I want to slightly re-eveulate my reads so here there are

Luke- He has played wayy townier imo over the past few posst and therefore he is weak town for me right now
Pav- has moved from weak town to null/weak scum for me as of now. They do indeed have reads but they're confident not in them at all and from my expericnes, usually town is more confident in their reads.
Cyrus- As many others have said, he is a big wild card rn, but ngl, hes leaning town to me
Azeru- Probs my biggest town read, I have really liked the tone of their reads
Zyla- I have re-evulated Zyla and after reading through their posts Scum casing me, they have had some pretty solid reasond AND have started scumcasing other ppl So I like that(probs null rn tbh)
Strange- Honestly my biggest question mark rn. My read on had changed quite alot but they are still leaning scum to me
STD- Another person who I think is my biggest scum lean rn- This read I cant explain much other than gut feeling
Cedricson- Havent posted in ~24 hours so dont have a read on them rn

TLDR:

From mafia to town

STD -> Strange == Pav -> Cyrus -> Zyra -> Luke -> Azeru

(As said above Do not have a read on cedricsson)

[HockeyFan]

Oh yeah the vote counter reminded me

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[HockeyFan]

Get better soon Luke!

[HockeyFan]

Oh yeah the vote counter reminded me

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Save The Dragons

Why, though?

This: 310

[HockeyFan]

inch fast that hat earth right east. in soon after dont only count, shoot ant vest every . match empty.

good luck

sigh, you are actually so hard to read because half of the time, idk what you're saying lol

[HockeyFan]

@Azeri can you please explain why you’re voting for Cyrus right now? You’ve been prodding and questioning Cyrus for a while now, and you choose to stay when there’s logical move from several accounts that says not to vote them?

I explained it in my 237 and 248. A lot has happened since those posts that I haven't had time to fully catch up on until now, but I'll go ahead and UNVOTE: . Much in the same boat as Luke as quoted below.

In regards to cyrus, I am not sure if cyrus is town, but I am willing to let them live through Day 1

______________________________

287 straight through to 295 is a bizarre interaction. I don't love the question, and I don't love the answers. It's all just... weird. I think Luke's response in 295 is generally speaking the best of the bunch, STD's 292 is the weakest. I can't decide if I feel the question itself is posed as a genuine question to just try and figure out where town goes from here, or if it's mafia bait (like HF said in 293), but I feel like the former is more likely. I can't imagine expecting to get and follow advice on how to be scummy from town.

Too late in the night to do really deep dives into ISOs right now, but a couple quick thoughts on glances through a few:

Haschel

: I generally like their thought processes, and I feel townie motives from most of their posts. The only things that ping me as a little weird were the E-1 drop on HF in 132 (although this was taken back

real

quick), and the casually claiming VT in their opening. Those things are minor to me so I'm leaning town here.

Luke

: Lot of posts, very wordy. There are really very few things Luke has done that I don't love (already made points towards both of them, being my 95 directed at 29, and my 238 directed at 188), and they're fairly minor. Good communication, thought processes are fine, taking proactive decisions in diving into ISOs, it all kinda checks out. Nothing

majorly

townie but nothing majorly scummy either. I am almost inclined to be leaning towards the idea of Luke being scum with the concept of "too clean to not be dirty". As in all these wordy posts are an active effort to seem more town than he is. But I'm not sure about that yet. Null for now.

STD

: I don't like the vibes present in 13 and 20. The press back on Haschel in 52 and 56 for voting Strange early are also a little odd to me, It plays out Haschel is pressing for information and STD is butting in to relieve the pressure for... what reason? 315 I'm not sure how to feel about. It's a self-meta call recognized as such. I will admit that some of my read here is due to playstyle, but I don't feel much of any townie proactivity or thought processes coming through in any of his posts, so I'm leaning cautiously nullscum.

Everything about this post reads town. Just wanna know what your read on Zyra is?(i know you were gonna do ISO's later but what is your base read on Zyra)

[HockeyFan]

[quote="In post 368, cyrus62"][/quote]

Hey cyrus, you mention ppl have thrown shade at u this game but here u are, throwing shade at Luke which is a big?? Its almost as if you know Strange is town and that is why you are A. sheeping him so you can on d2 say "omg Luke is in hotwater, he got a read wrong, lets powercondemm him". so like I dont like this at all

[HockeyFan]

Yes..?

[HockeyFan]

Vote Count 1-7

In 16th Century Naples, the term "pizza" came into being. It referred to galatte, a flatbread, with stuffings or toppings. It was a street food and was considered a dish for poor people.

HockeyFan

(3): StrangeMatter, Zyla, cyrus62

StrangeMatter

(2): Lukewarm, Pavowski

Save The Dragons

(1): HockeyFan

Haschel Cedricson

(1): Save The Dragons

Not Voting

(2): Azeru, Haschel Cedricson

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: June 20, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-06-19 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

so either luke and hockey are scum together and trying to put the mislynch on me or one of the two pocketed the other i dont like the way they are defending each other so hard. reminds me of the longest newbi game . icon was so sure insomnia was town that they almost cost us that game. why because they were basically joined at the hip so much so we thought they were both scum. if not for the jail keep we would have lost. whose on hockey me zyla and strange . he would vote me but he wants to vote strange 2 of the three on the wagon. he also wants it to seem like hes making reads . 7 days to go only 15 pages why so stung already.

Yea I want to vote u and Strange. I do realize 7 days are left in this day but as said in 220, I like to make a lot of reads quickly. Am I supposed to ignore your inherently scummy posts? Also, the fact that u think me tring luke is gonna "cost" us the game is comical. u said yourself that there are 7 days in day 1 so why are u so sure "us defending each other/pocketing each other" is gonna "cost us the game"?

[HockeyFan]

Vote Count 1-7

In 16th Century Naples, the term "pizza" came into being. It referred to galatte, a flatbread, with stuffings or toppings. It was a street food and was considered a dish for poor people.

HockeyFan

(3): StrangeMatter, Zyla, cyrus62

StrangeMatter

(2): Lukewarm, Pavowski

Save The Dragons

(1): HockeyFan

Haschel Cedricson

(1): Save The Dragons

Not Voting

(2): Azeru, Haschel Cedricson

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: June 20, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-06-19 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

so either luke and hockey are scum together and trying to put the mislynch on me or one of the two pocketed the other i dont like the way they are defending each other so hard. reminds me of the longest newbi game . icon was so sure insomnia was town that they almost cost us that game. why because they were basically joined at the hip so much so we thought they were both scum. if not for the jail keep we would have lost. whose on hockey me zyla and strange . he would vote me but he wants to vote strange 2 of the three on the wagon. he also wants it to seem like hes making reads . 7 days to go only 15 pages why so stung already.

Yea I want to vote u and Strange. I do realize 7 days are left in this day but as said in 220, I like to make a lot of reads quickly. Am I supposed to ignore your inherently scummy posts? Also, the fact that u think me tring luke is gonna "cost" us the game is comical. u said yourself that there are 7 days in day 1 so why are u so sure "us defending each other/pocketing each other" is gonna "cost us the game"?

simply if you only aim at people who aim at you and luke then you anit scum hunting you pretending.

Why do u think Im aiming at you just because you're aiming at me? You are scum for deliberately wasting town's time with your reaction tests and pushing people who call u out on it

[HockeyFan]

try to read my code maybe your quit aiming at me and start hunting.

I've said earlier, I am not interested in reading your code because you need to do more pro-town things than whatever that is. Also, just because i am scumreading in my last few posts does not mean Im aiming at u. I have SRD STD and strange in my read list 310.

[HockeyFan]

scumreading you*

[HockeyFan]

ok smart one what does it say.

I am town tracker.

if there. is a doc, save. me.

it i

funny how you read me.

oh? Ok then Ig cyrus is town LOL, what a wack playstyle. I guess I will go back to pushing my SRS in STD and strange(partly). Can STD give some updates reads?

[HockeyFan]

ok smart one what does it say.

I am town tracker.

if there. is a doc, save. me.

it i

funny how you read me.

oh? Ok then Ig cyrus is town LOL, what a wack playstyle. I guess I will go back to pushing my SRS in STD and strange(partly). Can STD give some updates reads?

Well, let's not forget that just because he says he's town doesn't mean it's true.

Though for other reasons, I am having a hard time finding scum motivation in his play. It's anti town, but at the same time the reasons I can think of for which he'd make this play as scum are extremely risky, and even if it played out in his best case scenario, are still mostly detrimental to the scum team.

Yea ik that, but Im not gonna waste any more time trying to push a possible town PR in cyrus(assuming the messages have been decoded correctly)

[HockeyFan]

so now that thats out of the way now lets see who was pushing me the most.

I pushed you the most because I legitimately did not think u did anything pro-town, I thought u were null leaning scum who was wasting towns time with codes that probably meant nothing

[HockeyFan]

This game is such a mess.

ikr

[HockeyFan]

@Pav, can you expain rq again why u have a slight town read on STD.

Also Strange, you dont seem to have attempted STD yet? So what are your thoughts on them?

[HockeyFan]

have attempted to read them*

[HockeyFan]

[quote="In post 455, cyrus62"][/quote]

Where is the me and cedricsson pair coming from? I've barely interacted with cedricsson

[HockeyFan]

Where is the me and cedricsson pair coming from? I've barely interacted with cedricsson

Bad wording, I meant hes barely posted so he hasnt had a chance to interact much*

[HockeyFan]

Vanilla Town is the best role because not only do I get to give zero fucks about drawing the nightkill, it's actually good for me to draw it.

StrangeMatter: Why Hockeyfan?

why were you asking about a rvs vote

I have 0 clue why u think we are partners from this but eh. Also in 461, u mention i "scumslipped" but i just dont see it. How does us not responding make u right? Responding time IMO is NAI, people have a life out of fourm and can take some to respond, no?

[HockeyFan]

When your both in the lobby ... I took a look at sight chat . You both been there for hours

Eh, I did have the tab open but I was doing other things while keeping it open, I know this is all WIFOM but response time especially in fourm is NAI

[HockeyFan]

Newbie 2066 - Pizza!

Moderator: fferyllt
Backup Moderator: Cabd

Deep dish, stuffed, thin crust, round, square, in all its forms, with all its toppings, this game is dedicated to PIZZA!

The flavor is purely for your enjoyment (and mine!), and has no effect whatsoever on the NewD3 newbie game setup and rules.

The moderators are not responsible for any weight gained during this game.

Player List (9)

Pavowski

Zyla

StrangeMatter

Lukewarm

HockeyFan

Azeru

Save The Dragons

(SE)

Haschel Cedricson

(SE)

cyrus62

(SE)

bold

= confirmed
* = prod

Spoiler: Alive

Pavowski
Zyla
StrangeMatter
Lukewarm
HockeyFan
Azeru
Save The Dragons
Haschel Cedricson
cyrus62

Spoiler: Dead

No one...yet!

Spoiler: Banished

Let's not go there

Spoiler: Vote Counter Settings

Living Players

Pavowski
Zyla
StrangeMatter
Lukewarm
HockeyFan
Azeru
Save The Dragons
Haschel Cedricson
cyrus62

Links

Day 1: Post #4

HockeyFan don't respond to this but if I got it right after the game repost this and say Cyrus knew.

What am i supposed to get from this? This is just quoting the mods first message

[HockeyFan]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I feel that could be a possible scum team where we have 2 scum team members both flying under the radar?

Again, this is probs a bad read but I am just putting it out there

[HockeyFan]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I'm curious, what reads awkward about that read to you?

Its defintly not conclusive but in 268, he goes from Tring back to giving reasons why they're scum just a few words later which is ??? His scum read didnt even have any reasoning on why hes scum fwiw so I have 0 clue why based on that, Pav decides to read Az as neutral but could be just me?

[HockeyFan]

i like haschel a little less for the vote

strangematter, i think haschel wants your attention

What part of the vote did you not like?

why did hockey feel the need to ask std why he didnt like the vote? it wasn't on you or even regarding you but because he said he didnt like haschels vote . why though . that poked out.

I was interested because STD just blatantly said "I like a haschel a little less for the vote" even though we could see that Haschel was building up a push(Also at the time, I was Sr'ing STD a little so this just seemed off to me)

[HockeyFan]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I'm curious, what reads awkward about that read to you?

Its defintly not conclusive but in 268, he goes from Tring back to giving reasons why they're scum just a few words later which is ??? His scum read didnt even have any reasoning on why hes scum fwiw so I have 0 clue why based on that, Pav decides to read Az as neutral but could be just me?

To me that seems fairly normal, he's got some town vibes, but also some scummy vibes, and they cancel out

Eh fair enough, but the progression of the TR -> SR is a bit weird

[HockeyFan]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I'm curious, what reads awkward about that read to you?

Its defintly not conclusive but in 268, he goes from Tring back to giving reasons why they're scum just a few words later which is ??? His scum read didnt even have any reasoning on why hes scum fwiw so I have 0 clue why based on that, Pav decides to read Az as neutral but could be just me?

To me that seems fairly normal, he's got some town vibes, but also some scummy vibes, and they cancel out

Eh fair enough, but the progression of the TR -> SR is a bit weird

Just to provide some perspective, my reads are as shallow as they come right now and are likely to stay that way until there's some hard evidence (a NK, a claim that can be reasonably assessed, etc). To quantify them in an arbitrary way, I'd say my reads at the moment are plus or minus a point or two on, say, a hundred-point scale.

In other words, (and I would think this would go without saying, but let's just be clear), an early towny read from last Thursday in no way precludes a scummy read on Sunday, or vice versa. I'll say that for myself, but I'll also say I assume it to be true for most players. You *should* be changing your mind at this point. You *should* be uncertain in your reads. If you think there's a contradiction there -- in light of, again, absolutely no hard evidence at this point -- you're welcome to think it.

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

[HockeyFan]

hockey how sure are you about your vote on std? i may i have to join you there.

I think STD is quite scummy and he is my top scum but atm im trying to form more of a read on my null leaning scums

[HockeyFan]

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

I think you are not parsing out his comments the same way I am

Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town. But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum. End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess.

I read that as

"Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town" Pav is giving Azeru townie points for 135

"But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum" Pav is giving Azeru scummy points for this

"End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess" Since Pav has things that ping Azeru as scum and things that ping Azeru as town, they ended on neutral

Oh ok Yea I see now, I thought he formatted his comments like I tr Azeru <reasons> SR azeru : <nothing>. and at the very end, he Null read them. Okay well if thats the case azeru/pav probs arent partners but one of them is the 2nd scum

[HockeyFan]

I can't help but get the feeling that Cyrus is trying to bury something that was said last night, given he has post 80+ posts in the last 24 hours. So I looked back at the things I had commented on, and I was talking about my scum read on Azeru before that.

Do other people have conversations that they feel like were derailed/buried by the recent flurry of posts?

eh not much tbh, havent gotten to interact with Strange in a while but I dont think thats a major deal. But now i do kinda want Strange's thoughts on how the games going

[HockeyFan]

Sigh I really dont know where to go with this game lol. Like my reads are kinda stale at this point and I dont think they're changing anytime but when luke/cyrus are the only ones posting(both of them are null OR slight town for me), i cant really progress my reads

[HockeyFan]

Sigh I really dont know where to go with this game lol. Like my reads are kinda stale at this point and I dont think they're changing anytime but when luke/cyrus are the only ones posting(both of them are null OR slight town for me), i cant really progress my reads

huh I thought lukewarm was your stungrst town read

in my latest set of reads(310), i had Azeru as my strongest TR actually

[HockeyFan]

And they say I'm hard to follow. So how do you feel about lukewarm votein them?

dont like it much tbh, but I think Luke voting Azeru is simply a TvT interaction

[HockeyFan]

And they say I'm hard to follow. So how do you feel about lukewarm votein them?

dont like it much tbh, but I think Luke voting Azeru is simply a TvT interaction

Show me how town like you are and vote haschel so we can pressure him in to talking.

eh sure why not but by EOD i am pivoting my vote back to STD

UNVOTE:
VOTE: haschel

[HockeyFan]

And they say I'm hard to follow. So how do you feel about lukewarm votein them?

dont like it much tbh, but I think Luke voting Azeru is simply a TvT interaction

Show me how town like you are and vote haschel so we can pressure him in to talking.

eh sure why not but by EOD i am pivoting my vote back to STD

UNVOTE:
VOTE: haschel

You know, pressure does not really work if you say that you don't plan on following through with it

VOTE: haschel

This is E-1

Talk to us! Talk to us! Talk to us!

I mean I did say i am pivoting my vote EOD probs, but theres still a couple irl days before this day ends so eh.

With that being, sad Haschel needs to talk :^)

[HockeyFan]

we need the pressure to stay like what the heck. lukewarm you real are a strange one.

Well clearly this "pressure" isn't working. i think this time would be better spent pushing the people we sus no?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: STD

[HockeyFan]

Now that I think about it, Pav/Azeru could just both be town for now, althougth i dislike Pav a little for now. This makes POE strange -> STD -> Zyla until smth else changes

[HockeyFan]

and if lukewarm is scum hockey is with them.

I will re-evaluate my read on him d1 but hes not getting condemmed d1, so meh

[HockeyFan]

That is hammer right?

[HockeyFan]

and if lukewarm is scum hockey is with them.

I will re-evaluate my read on him d1 but hes not getting condemmed d1, so meh

you ment d2 right? funny how you act that way.

Yes I meant d2, sorry the typo. and also what do u mean "funny how I act that way" ??. Do you really think Luke is the scummiest person atm cause I dont

[HockeyFan]

[quote="In post 673, cyrus62"][/quote]

eh I dont think thats much of a problem. Luke's the 2nd farthest from scum for me so meh. Azeru isnt really getting pushed rn either so I can defend Luke If i want to

[HockeyFan]

....

UNVOTE:

If this is strange's response to being put at e-1, it just doesn't feel like they have a partner?

Like I think that any one in this lobby as Strange's partner would have helped them come up with an angle to push

Maybe everyone I thought was scum before is actually town :/

might be the case for me tbh but I still think STD is scum here

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: strangematter

This vote??

[HockeyFan]

it could be hockey with his constant push of me i don't know if the read has developed or if it's a lazy push

I mean tbh my read on u hasnt developed much but my read on others have developed and I TR them(ppl such as Luke,Azeru and maybe Zyla/Pav?(although these are null rn))

[HockeyFan]

lol

[HockeyFan]

[quote="In post 714, cyrus62"][/quote]

Theres still alot of day length left and I think it would be better spent pushing STD rather then just hammer Strange

[HockeyFan]

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I'm very confident winning this game now because you have outed as scum by voting me so the 2 mafia are already outed to me

So, going through ISOs I actually found this kind of interesting. I didn't really notice it much the first time, and mostly thought it was a joke, but Hockey is saying "the

2

mafia are [known] to me". Strange is supposed to be the first of course, but who's the second one?

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

Slightly random question for Hockey from this: if I were scum, who do you think my partner would be?

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

I think you are not parsing out his comments the same way I am

Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town. But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum. End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess.

I read that as

"Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town" Pav is giving Azeru townie points for 135

"But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum" Pav is giving Azeru scummy points for this

"End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess" Since Pav has things that ping Azeru as scum and things that ping Azeru as town, they ended on neutral

Oh ok Yea I see now, I thought he formatted his comments like I tr Azeru <reasons> SR azeru : <nothing>. and at the very end, he Null read them. Okay well if thats the case azeru/pav probs arent partners but one of them is the 2nd scum

So, around this time, you had Azeru as a hard town read. If you were thinking either Pav or Azeru had to be scum, how come that didn't make you want to vote Pav?

Alright so as for 21, it was merely a meme. If you were scum, you could be partners with about anybody tbh(except Strange(maybe)) Yes there is still a possibly of their being

1 scum between them

, but I am more confident in STD flipping scum(and being the 2nd mafia) rn so that is why I am pushing it more

[HockeyFan]

oh yeah the last part of that sentence is directed towards your last point

[HockeyFan]

@hockey if std flips town then what?

Then I probably reconsider my reads and start pushing one of null towns(Zyla,Pav e.t.c). I could also probably reconsider on Luke if I had to

[HockeyFan]

Do you really think that the best play for me to make here is to just follow your vote?

show me why i should vote strange over hockey? @ hockey show me why i should vote std over lukewarm . show me why you two are town. you may not be willing to work with me. but i'll work with you if you show me why i should trust you.

Alright well I think STD is scummier tbh because of their logs. They are super non-comittal imo and are just lurking(could be a difference in playstyles). They have made about 3-4 TR's(some of them being super lazy imo), and they havent made SR'S to push so this is why u vote STD over Luke

[HockeyFan]

Fuck, Am I just wrong on luke here? Like the luke v Haschel interaction is (probs TVT?) but the fact that Luke just HAD to defend the first real pressure zyla has gotten all game seems odd to me. @Luke, im assuming u hard TR Zyla here then right?

[HockeyFan]

You know, I never really understand what people have against people defending each other. Like yes, stepping in front of a question that was asked specifically to someone can hurt the town at spots, but if someone is accusing someone and you disagree with the reasons, why *wouldn't* you step in and say "that doesn't seem right to me"?

Even if I agree with someone's read on someone, I'll step in on occasion if I think that their reasoning is off. Whether or not the person is scum, it ends up bringing discussion to the table, which is always good

Yea defending someone is partnery but not all the time

mafia partners

[HockeyFan]

Fuck, Am I just wrong on luke here? Like the luke v Haschel interaction is (probs TVT?) but the fact that Luke just HAD to defend the first real pressure zyla has gotten all game seems odd to me. @Luke, im assuming u hard TR Zyla here then right?

Zyla being town is my most confident read in the game. And the way that Haschel pushed on Zyla seemed really fishy. Specifically the "made a case for Strange, but voted for Zyla" and then his case seems cherry picked to fit that narrative. - Why in the world would I not call that out?

That is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for - like thats the game.

Spotting people making cases that don't seem genuine, and moves that look like they could fit into a scum agenda (saving Strange without looking like he is defending her).

What do you think I should do if I feel like that is what I am seeing?

Yea I just wanted to confirm that they were your hardest TR, tbh with them being your hardest TR, it looks fine atm

[HockeyFan]

....

UNVOTE:

If this is strange's response to being put at e-1, it just doesn't feel like they have a partner?

Like I think that any one in this lobby as Strange's partner would have helped them come up with an angle to push

Maybe everyone I thought was scum before is actually town :/

I wanna revisit this thing tbh. Most of the pressure on Strange just .... died down?

[HockeyFan]

lynch me if it helps.

Why do u want to if you're our TT? like atm no ones doubting your claim. ppl saying you're "anti-town" doesnt mean they want to vote u?

Also @pav quick question, you havent made a read on Zyla since 269, so now that Zyla has started being SR'D by Haschel, has your read on them changed at all?

[HockeyFan]

I am going to put my vote back to Strange. I am still a little off put of the wagon wrt them not seeming to have a partner, but Azeru is looking townier recently, so I don't know where else to plant my vote atm.

VOTE: Strange

Maybe I am just downing out the thread. I want to get a better since of where people are sitting

Zyla, please make a scum case on Hockey if you think that is a better push then Strange. Assume I have no idea why you are suspicious of him, Talk to me like I am 5.

Hockey, please scum case StD if you think that is a better push then Strange

Strange, please make a scum case on who ever you think is the best push rn, I am thinking you are leaning Pav, but maybe you will surprise me?

Azeru, Pav, STD - who is your top choice for an elim today? I think Strange was the most recent vote for each of you, but if you think that we should look somewhere else over strange, drop a case.

I feel like I should step back, and let everyone else air their thoughts out into the thread more

Oh I just saw this post. Alright, so the thing is. I think they are both equally scummy but as for scumcasing STD, most of my reasons are highlighted in 754. Furthermore, his reaction to that post(presumabley in 766, he just highlighted I was pushing him alot and thats why Im scum which imo is a big ?

[HockeyFan]

I think I am realizing that a lot of people in this lobby don't know how to make a scum case

Shhh, dont gotta call me out like that

[HockeyFan]

Why is this even a convo

[HockeyFan]

r it rubs me the wrong w

Alright zyla 1 question, why was that specific question so important to solving peoples alignments? Like I saw it and yea i didnt think much of it because I didnt know that question was important for your Tr's/SR's

[HockeyFan]

there are two players them and it being thire 1st game if they are town they deserve to win. VOTE: No elimination

Thats a bad thing to do .... as town right??

[HockeyFan]

Alright with the new day starting, here are some quickfire reads based on d1


Haschel Town(759,762,777,846,855,(i like these logs because hes really trying to question strange and get a better read on him)

Azeru Town but after a re read of his logs might be weak town now(ofc he has town posts such as 333,371,604 but posts such as 629,903 rub me the wrong way)

Pav: Null leaning scum(Scum posts probs 166,320,626(as luke Mentioned) but he does have

some

town posts such as 436 and 268? Don't know tbh)

Luke: Town probs because of posts such as 46 and 570. Like Luke hasn't done anything extraordinarily scummy but looking back 690 is really ??, like yea Strange flipped town but there was no reason to completely stop that push. btw, he still

voted

for strange in 802. Maybe I'm just trying him because I like his writing style . He probs is town but not as much anymore.

Std scum(56,67,533,632,(these last 2 posts especially he goes from “I think Haschel is a good vote” to asking “why is haschel better than strange”, dont like the vote in 695 either. He does have towny points for going in depth of his explanations(873,890,891, but eh)

Zyla-null scum(minor scum points for 420, trying to discredit our town tracker for ??, dont have more specific posts to quote for this slot but her entire push on me seems based of the first few posts which is odd. However, she did become much townier towards EOD)


TLDR my reads from scum to town are
STD > Zyla == Pav > Luke > Azeru > Haschel

[HockeyFan]

ok based on the fact that no one died, we could have possible 4 greens if doc didnt save cyrus but doc dont out if u did save cyrus, pretty sure luke is also green, no? games looking pretty good?

[HockeyFan]

I mean if there was a JK/Hooker in here, cyrus wouldnt have got a check, and mafia not killing just seems super ???

[HockeyFan]

o wait nvm u get a check of "no where" anyways if u get hooked, nvm scratch that lol

[HockeyFan]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

This is a good question. It will let us know if we are dealing with a roleblocker or not

I gave the game another look over night, and right now my biggest suspicion is STD. For most of Day 1 he was very passive/lurky, and then at the end of day, he looks like he was opportunistic with his vote, like his voting does not seem super genuine.

Like when he kept Strange at e-1, after I left the push, like he was hoping it would still go through without me

Spoiler:

....

UNVOTE:

If this is strange's response to being put at e-1, it just doesn't feel like they have a partner?

Like I think that any one in this lobby as Strange's partner would have helped them come up with an angle to push

Maybe everyone I thought was scum before is actually town :/

VOTE: strangematter

When that wagon stalled out, he jumped to the next push on Hockey

Spoiler:

VOTE: hockeyfan

e-2

And then he abandoned that wagon when lost steam, he went back to Strange - and his reasoning looks suspicious to me

Spoiler:

Town
Azeru
Pav
Cyrus

Null (town lean)
Luke
Zyla

Null (scum lean)
Haschel

Scum
Strange
Hockeyfan

i like the wagon composition on strangematter

VOTE: StrangeMatter E-1

He votes for strange because he "likes the wagon composition." Which is a weird reason to join a wagon imo. It is like he avoids saying she is scummy here because he knows she is getting ready to flip town. Like he is trying to absolve himself of the vote -- "I only voted that way because I trusted you guys **points at Azeru, Pav, and me**"

VOTE: std

I mean yea this is a town post but shouldn't u wait for STD to post before u start voting them?
t

[HockeyFan]

Why are u guys voting so early into the day

[HockeyFan]

JK could have got lucky and hit mafia. Or could have locked up Cyrus to protect him and Cyrus is lying about his check. But the most likely play is the most obvious, Cyrus made himself a target and doc saved him.

In only one of those situations would it make sense for a PR to reveal so I don't want to spend a lot of brain on it right now.

Pav's second part of "I dont want to spend a lot of brain on it right now" summarizes my feelings on this convo rn

[HockeyFan]

picking up right where we left off after the Strange elimination.

Yea now that I look back at it, nothing wrong but like I was a bit confused by the speed of your votes. I still want Strange, but I want him to post more to see if he is towny or smth

[HockeyFan]

LOL i meant STD, my bad

[HockeyFan]

@Luke and @Pav, I know STD is your top scum rn, but who is your 2nd top scum atm?

[HockeyFan]

i like azeru for town i liked his commentary at the end of the day towards cyrus. i like his questioning. i wish he would talk more.

i like luke for town. he's wrong about me. i wish he'd stop talking to cyrus altogether but trying to reason with him seems town to me. i think he's asking good questions.

pav has some iioa posts like his vote tracker but has kept some of his thoughts close to the vest here. of the three i find him the scummiest. I wish he would talk a little more as well, he could be lurky scum unsure of what to say.

it could be something like {Haschel, Hockeyfan} but i'm going to try VOTE: Pavowski for now

I really dont know how I feel about my top scumread voting one of my other scumreads/leans lol, maybe Pav is town because of this? Also @STD, can u explain the haschel/me pairing?

[HockeyFan]

I'd like to consider something at this point. And before I even bring it up, I want to make it very very clear:

I AM NOT ACTIVELY ADVOCATING FOR THIS.

Do not

make any claims based on this post alone, I just would like to get everybody's opinion on the thought.

Would a mass claim be potentially useful for us? Here's my thought process: Cyrus has claimed Tracker. I don't know if I entirely believe it, and I think that some other people are in that boat with me if I'm not mistaken. If Cyrus is town, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for him to lie and claim Tracker (although he's done other things with no explanation, so I'm taking this with a grain of salt, though I'm humoring it to be true for the purposes of this post). So for situation one, let's pretend that that Cyrus is town.

1) Cyrus is Tracker, mafia can trust this. So like I said at the end of day 1, there is a chance that mafia already knows the setup and what the other PR is. They don't yet know

who

the other PR is, so a mass claim would out that to mafia. On the flipside, if Cyrus really is Tracker, I wouldn't expect any counterclaims on the second PR, so we could get town the information of what setup we're in, and have two confirmed towns in our PRs. In the case that mafia does decide to counterclaim, we have a 50/50 that was can then look over, and at least one mafia that we can take down for sure.

2) Cyrus is mafia, lying about being Tracker, and nobody's counterclaimed yet out of fear of the 50/50, or fear of giving up to mafia that they're a PR. In this situation though, mafia do not know the setup or possible power roles. Although nobody getting night killed has implications, because mafia just choosing not to kill is... questionable. In any case, mass claiming in this situation gets us a counterclaim against Cyrus to have the 50/50 outing him, and again, will give the information of what setup we're in, and have confirmed town in PR once the 50/50 is sorted out.

My other thought behind this is that the past couple of pages feel like there's some mild PR hunting anyways, so why not lean into it and put everything on the table?

I am asking this as a genuine question to more experienced players than myself. Is anything in these scenarios wrong? Am I missing any other major downsides? In my head right now, it feels like the worst case scenario is that we end up with two confirmed towns, and major insight into our most confusing player. Mafia then know who is who, but if Cyrus is Tracker, they've got half of it figured out anyways. Town gets a narrowed down scumlist.

Do the pros outweigh the cons? Is the whole idea banking too much on Cyrus' Tracker claim? If I'm a dumbass please tell me so.

yea I think this is good? At worst we get 1 extra confirmed town on top of cyrus and Luke(Im going under the principle that Luke is green checked(correct me if im wrong) and at best we get 4 green IF the doc saved someone either than cyrus(very unlikely)

[HockeyFan]

yea I think this is good? At worst we get 1 extra confirmed town on top of cyrus and Luke(Im going under the principle that Luke is green checked(correct me if im wrong) and at best we get 4 green IF the doc saved someone either than cyrus(very unlikely)

I would just like to know why exactly you think Luke is confirmed town.

913

[HockeyFan]

yea I think this is good? At worst we get 1 extra confirmed town on top of cyrus and Luke(Im going under the principle that Luke is green checked(correct me if im wrong) and at best we get 4 green IF the doc saved someone either than cyrus(very unlikely)

I would just like to know why exactly you think Luke is confirmed town.

913

Even if we're assuming that there were no deaths because of a Doctor save, this doesn't mean much. There are two mafia, and either one could be the one to do their night kill. Luke going nowhere doesn't mean he's not mafia. All this means is that he wasn't the one that sent the night kill action.

Oh i forgot that mafia can choose who visits the kill, sorry im used to the other site I played on where all mafia visit the NK.

[HockeyFan]

i like azeru for town i liked his commentary at the end of the day towards cyrus. i like his questioning. i wish he would talk more.

i like luke for town. he's wrong about me. i wish he'd stop talking to cyrus altogether but trying to reason with him seems town to me. i think he's asking good questions.

pav has some iioa posts like his vote tracker but has kept some of his thoughts close to the vest here. of the three i find him the scummiest. I wish he would talk a little more as well, he could be lurky scum unsure of what to say.

it could be something like {Haschel, Hockeyfan} but i'm going to try VOTE: Pavowski for now

I really dont know how I feel about my top scumread voting one of my other scumreads/leans lol, maybe Pav is town because of this? Also @STD, can u explain the haschel/me pairing?

how come Pav voting me did nothing for you but me voting pav makes you think he's town?

it was an example of two people off the wagon that i'm a little suspicious of.

The Pav vote actually did concern me on the wagon speed on u. i even said this in 930, and this is one of the reasons why I didnt hop on this wagon and may even reconsider my read so idk where you're getting the narative "how come Pav voting me did nothing for you"

[HockeyFan]

In regards to hockey, I don't agree with some of their logic, but I think it is coming from a town mindset at least. He's not locked in as town yet for sure, but I'm leaning towards it

r it rubs me the wrong w

Alright zyla 1 question, why was that specific question so important to solving peoples alignments? Like I saw it and yea i didnt think much of it because I didnt know that question was important for your Tr's/SR's

Missed that, sorry

It's less the question itself than people's interactions with it tbh. But I do think knowing whether or not someone like playing scum or town can potentially be helpful in reading them, as it helps you have some frame of reference to come from


Pedit: I split it into two posts and got called away in the middle of typing the second one, whoops

Now that you

semi

TR me, can i have a updated reads list.

[HockeyFan]

oki, cool

[HockeyFan]

i think scum is in {Hockey, HC, Pav}

I think Zyla, Azeru, Luke, and you are town

Alright so heres the thing, SVD spent 766 defending themselves from my push on them(tbh I dont follow the logic on some of these points but thats a slight TL for me)

but after that post, he stars SR'ing and pushing me without giving me a good reason on why im scum(other than presumably I pushed them)

[HockeyFan]

okay cool, so i wanna SL u for that, but your content on other ppl has been towny so back to null u go

[HockeyFan]

ok hockey who do you agree with or disagree with now that std zyla luke and pav have given reads.

Alright, so Luke's reads didnt ping me as scummy at all and my read on him from 915 hasnt changed much.

my thouhgts about STD's reads are in here 1035

as for zyla and pav's reads, I dont agree with HC being their top scum, i just dont see it lol, but tbf they both have STD as their SL(which can i get behind), so their reads for me are a solid null for me

[HockeyFan]

I also gave my reads hc hasn't posted much so why don't you think he's scummy

I out lined some of his towny posts in 915. He also hasnt done anything extraordinarily scummy d2(hanst posted musch but still)

[HockeyFan]

Hey luke quick question,

So it seems

almost

everyone has been pushing STD here so shouldnt u be Tring them a bit because u said this(in 690) when strange was getting pushed by everyone?

[HockeyFan]

Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

you do realize if this is true then you blocked him in which case you helped town a lot by revealing this. i am sorry for being a jerk but yes that is the missing piece to the puzzle. as i said i asked the mod and was told that if scum was jail kept my action would still say he went no where. VOTE: lukewarm ps thank you you could have kepth it to your self

about the whole voting Luke, Im not following the logic on why Luke is confirmed mafia, isnt there a 50/50 chance that he got Rbd OR he got saved. Like azeru's post outlined some things that outline why the first thing is probs most true, but why are u 2 so oppurtinistic?

[HockeyFan]

as i said luke wasn't saved why would scum target lukewarm over me. two their was no role block last night because they got locked up. 3 no deaths because scum was locked up . we know their is a role blocker so why wouldn't scum block me. 4 i warned town last night that i would most likely be blocked. 5 lukewarm was the one to say we should wait for day2 to short me hence he was going block me.

ok nvm, lets bring this vote to E-2 then, jailkeeper is such a confusing role lol

VOTE: Lukewarm

[HockeyFan]

Ngl STD may be town here because they got pushed so much by Luke

[HockeyFan]

scum just lies in Pav/Zyla here imo

[HockeyFan]

There is a chance that u just got rbed right? Zyla is almost hard confirmed town but not 100% with that being said, I will vote the other person who I think is scum


VOTE: Pav

[HockeyFan]

No Zyla is 100% town the Br is dead hockey lets eliminate hc think about it the jail keep locked up Zyla so hc would know since he's se that Zyla is innocent. VOTE: hc

No i meant Azeru could have been on u

[HockeyFan]

I dont think the entire Luke/STD interaction is scum/scum. Which through POE means mafia lies in Pav/Haschel.

[HockeyFan]

I dont think the entire Luke/STD interaction is scum/scum. Which through POE means mafia lies in Pav/Haschel.

Have you even been trying this game

What do u want me to say? I dont think Luke pushes his scum partner for the majority of d1/early d2. Yea Luke never voted STD d1, but he basically always had the intention of voting him through his pushes. He pocketed me and sort of pocketed my push on STD and i dont think scum does that there. As for town casing myself, I’ve been having a bad game, but I think if you lim Pav today, I think u pretty much win

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

[HockeyFan]

I dont think the entire Luke/STD interaction is scum/scum. Which through POE means mafia lies in Pav/Haschel.

Have you even been trying this game

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

The harder you fight the more I scum read you

lol

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

Dude.... he had that whole tirade where he scumread me for dropping a little bit of sus on him, voted me before Az dropped her intel, and then continued to push me even after.

But that's okay. What are your thoughts on Haschel?

Asssuming Zyla is <town>, its pretty much auto and we can condemm Haschel tmr since we have 1 mislim

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

Dude.... he had that whole tirade where he scumread me for dropping a little bit of sus on him, voted me before Az dropped her intel, and then continued to push me even after.

But that's okay. What are your thoughts on Haschel?

Asssuming Zyla is <town>, its pretty much auto and we can condemm Haschel tmr since we have 1 mislim

That ... is not what I asked

My thoughts on Haschel should be clear from this, no? Hashcel is my 2nd scum, I did TR them d1/d2. They dotn look great for the Strange push but u look worse atm

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

Dude.... he had that whole tirade where he scumread me for dropping a little bit of sus on him, voted me before Az dropped her intel, and then continued to push me even after.

But that's okay. What are your thoughts on Haschel?

Asssuming Zyla is <town>, its pretty much auto and we can condemm Haschel tmr since we have 1 mislim

We are far from a auto win.

Yea I realized that when i saw that STD wasnt actually confirmed town

[HockeyFan]

Hey Hockey, I'm curious, if we had to vote between HC and STD, who would you say we should vote for today and why?

I want to vote for Haschel more and it was primarily outlined in both 1188(some reasons why STD is town) and 1201(why haschel might be scum here)

[HockeyFan]

yea idm if i get condemned today, i could just be wrong on pav and it could be just be Haschel but, My top SR is pav here

[HockeyFan]

Hockey why is pav scum? He wasn't voting lukewarm till after ax showd his hand . You and Zyla defended Luke even after . As reveald them selfs . We now know Zyla is town . Had she not defined Luke so hard we may have already caught scum . I don't known if you just acting or you real don't understand. But yes had pav wanted to he could have gone a difent way and not voted Luke

It was not so much how he interacted with luke, it was how Luke interacted with Pav. Also, I think Haschel and STD are more town then Pav- Haschel cuz of his d1(although tbf he does look a bit bad for the Strange condemm), STd is town because once again, I dont think Luke interacts with STD that way as scum buddies(pushed him some of d1, and pocketed me(probes because i was pushing STD)

[HockeyFan]

cyrus, what makes pav town

[HockeyFan]

VOTE: Hockey
I believe this is E-1, do you have any last reasoning for why we should vote Pav, HC or STD tomorrow?

I think my vote pool rn is

Pav -> Hashcel -> STD

Pav - I think this slot is the scummiest rn for me cuz of how Luke interacted with Pav(null reading him most of day and never really hard pushing him until start of d2). Furthermore, pav has been way too indecisive/on the fence about this game(which imo I think is a scum trait). Like he has been null reading most of the game, and the few SL's he has had, he hasn't hard pushed them

Hashcel- If you guys think Pav is town, Hashcel is my 2nd condemn rn. Yea they were towny but Strange being their only push of the game AND strange fliping town makes them look a bit worse but I think Pav's scummier here. Could be just be wrong on all of these reads, so take these with a grain of salt

[HockeyFan]

Hockey if your town self hammer. Gl every one

sure why not, dont wanna waste a whole day on this when u guys already wanna condemm me anyways, glhf town tmr, Luke tricked me smh

VOTE: HockeyFan