Newbie 2069: Summertime [game over!]

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Noraaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaa

[The Bulge]

So, are only 4 of us talking right now?

you tell me?

[The Bulge]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[The Bulge]

what does that tell you about Illwei's alignment?

[The Bulge]

Noraa do you have any thoughts on bakslash's opener? also have you looked into anyone's meta? i can't remember if that's something you normally do

[The Bulge]

yea I hear ya

[The Bulge]

do you have something on bakslash's opening? I fail to see anything AI there so I'm wondering what you see there.

only time I've ever said glhf before any sort of game was to my opponents

[The Bulge]

Why do you keep asking for Bulge's thoughts?

I have good ones sometimes!

[The Bulge]

eh i wont bother for now

UNVOTE:

[The Bulge]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

What makes you think it wasn't just RVS to gauge your reaction? Not sure why you got so defensive, you weren't in any danger of being voted out.

where did Strangematter get defensive? I don't see what youre seeing.

also, a note, asking specific game-related questions is by definition not-RVS.

[The Bulge]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

what are you referring to in the second sentence here?

[The Bulge]

I think you're reading too much into RVS.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

is that why you voted them?

[The Bulge]

Noraa v Roden reading strongly tvt to me (noraa's gonna love this post )

[The Bulge]

Right now, it's more or less due to their interactions that I think that. But right now, I'm not really sure if either of them are scum right now.

I will say that it would look bad if one of them flips red at some point.

Aight. And who would it look bad for? What do you think of Roden’s vote on you?

This question is a bit weird. It would look bad for the person who did not get voted. I don't see why you would ask this question if you can figure out the answer without me needing to say it. As for what I think of Roden's vote on me, it's pressure, so its nothing new there. I'm not too sure what they mean by defensive in that post though, which I do find a little weird.

do you really not see the merit in asking people questions in the game of mafia??

pedit - Who is leaving out their thoughts on what?

[The Bulge]

Noraa I have to run for now, my break is up, but Roden's responses to you read extremely genuine to me and tonally town. I can probably go more in depth later but I'm not sure theres a whole lot else to it

[The Bulge]

im still here. i was on a staycation the last couple days while our floors were getting done, and I'm always terrible at remembering to declare v/la, mb. ill get to this tonight

[The Bulge]

hmmm ok I reread and there's this Roden post which isn't great, still feeling a tonal townread for sure, but thought this would be worth bringing to light

Tell me why Strange matter is scum and you aren't "reading too much into RVS" or is that just another RVS vote?

I have no way of knowing why Strange is scum, the game just started. I just put a vote on them to see what would happen.

this is a very odd response to the very common and simple request of "explain vote pls"

[The Bulge]

Sorry, yeah. Non Alignment Indicative

Basically Italian's questioning feels uberpointless because he's asking a question that doesn't need to be asked
Bak could have had some sort of scummy answer to that question, but really never a towny one.

really like this post. big town points for this thinking

[The Bulge]

I just got out of a game where I told myself ita was town for the whole game and just refused to see him as scum which ultimately gave him a lot longer to live than he deserved to(since a lot of people SRed him and I just shut them all down). I also know he's known to be LHF and often gets elimmed early in games due to his "scummy play style" I put that in quotations because typically I find him pretty towny. Idk I think the fact that he's getting heat now might be town indicative but scum games aren't always the same every game around since playerlist really matters. I find that newbies tend to pay attention to a lot of things that non newbies don't pay attention to and its possible that they caught something that just flew over my head. Bulge do you have thoughts?

not sure which part you want my thoughts on, but I agree with the sentiment that Italiano's questions have all been lacking in substance and followup, and often press the most trivial details. I don't have enough experience with him to have a say on whether that is in fact town indicative for him. and I agree with the line about newbies' POVs as well (see above post re:illwei!)

[The Bulge]

I don’t give analysis when I ask questions, that’s why I ask questions. I also don’t assume things because it annoys me to no end when people do it to me so I ask questions so people can actually answer them.

Can you define "assuming things" because I feel like at least a whole big part of mafia is based on assuming things, even if the assumptions are more of educated guesses?

Educated guesses are fine but I’m talking about there being a couple interpretations of something (post, interaction, etc.) and it’s assumed only from one side of the coin, like when someone assumes you are scum when you’re not because of a post and then locks in and doesn’t see anything from a town perspective at all. Like I said it’s annoying and I hate when it’s done to me so I know it’s annoying for other people and so I try not to do it, but I will say it’s a null action from me since I do it as both alignments so don’t read into like it means anything read wise.

I'm not a fan of this post and I cannot nail down why. but here it is now, maybe for later.

[The Bulge]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

What makes you think it wasn't just RVS to gauge your reaction? Not sure why you got so defensive, you weren't in any danger of being voted out.

where did Strangematter get defensive? I don't see what youre seeing.

@Roden

answer pls

[The Bulge]

It isn't who in this game is leaving out their thoughts, its more that its not pro town to hide what you think about someone or a situation.

I was asking specifically about 52. what prompted you to bring that up in the first place?

[The Bulge]

hmmm ok I reread and there's this Roden post which isn't great, still feeling a tonal townread for sure, but thought this would be worth bringing to light

Tell me why Strange matter is scum and you aren't "reading too much into RVS" or is that just another RVS vote?

I have no way of knowing why Strange is scum, the game just started. I just put a vote on them to see what would happen.

this is a very odd response to the very common and simple request of "explain vote pls"

What's odd? I explained my vote pretty clearly here. Nora asked me why Strange is scum and I don't think it's particularly notable for me to not know why someone is scum on page 2. If anything, the question was weird and honestly was pretty loaded.

hm looks more to me like a semantic issue between you two. alright

[The Bulge]

I don't see what youre seeing.

[The Bulge]

as in, how is that defensive?

[The Bulge]

I disagree with your recounting. there was no deflection, they admitted the concerns were valid, and in fact said it was townie of us to jump on it. they only acknowledged afterwards the possibility that it could be opportunistic scum looking for towncred so as to not give the impression they were explicitly townreading myself and Noraa, at least as far as I interpreted it.

[The Bulge]

*your being present in-thread rn and this being the next tab in my catchup are pure coincidence btw

I think you're reading too much into RVS.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

is that why you voted them?

Already answered this. I put the vote to see what would happen.

Nora are you really just going to continue to pick and choose which posts of mine you'll read? Because if you're going to continue to death tunnel me over literally nothing I'd rather just self hammer and sign up for a new game. I already explained and answered everything I could yet you can't even be bothered to respond.

I'm town reading Nora at this point but I honestly wish I wasn't. Pretty sure she's just a townie giving scum a free Day 1.

I'm wondering if the first post here TMIs Noraa as town, and the second 7 minutes later is damage control, but this is only conjecture/bookmarking thoughts

[The Bulge]

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

yea this was basically answered already, but the appeal of forum mafia for a lot of people is

so our largely-millennial userbase feels somewhat in-touch and up-to-pace with the modern era of social media and internet culture

so you don't have to be glued to a screen the whole time you're playing, only set aside some time each day to stay caught up and share thoughts/advance the game. some games move slower than others, and some players don't post every day (I'm not the best at this!), because that's what the medium allows for, and most people simply have other things to do.

[The Bulge]

It isn't who in this game is leaving out their thoughts, its more that its not pro town to hide what you think about someone or a situation.

I was asking specifically about 52. what prompted you to bring that up in the first place?

more on this, because I disagree with the notion that hiding one's thoughts and processes is anti-town. a skilled scum player is paying attention to what townies are looking for and latching onto, and if every townie is precisely outlining their every thought process then the mafia have a roadmap to victory. I'm probably in the minority on this site for this, but I personally prefer not to show all my cards as town, especially when in active pursuit of a scumread. get them when their guard is down. of course it's important to cooperate with other townies and to collaborate on scumhunting, first of all to make yourself known and readable to other townies, and obviously second of all to catch the baddies more effectively, but there is generally nothing inherently wrong with playing more reserved.

[The Bulge]

that's all from me tonight, busy week of cleaning still ahead of me so I'll go ahead and call a

v/la til Sunday

, but you'll see me before then for sure

[The Bulge]

when you made 52, you were talking about me and Noraa at first. why did you then start talking about "Leaving out part of someone's thoughts"?

[The Bulge]

I disagree with your recounting. there was no deflection, they admitted the concerns were valid, and in fact said it was townie of us to jump on it. they only acknowledged afterwards the possibility that it could be opportunistic scum looking for towncred so as to not give the impression they were explicitly townreading myself and Noraa, at least as far as I interpreted it.

You don't think scum ever does this? Furthermore, you don't see "guys it wasn't serious stop looking too much into it" as defensive, but when I say "you're looking too much into a comment" then that makes

me

defensive? No, sorry, it just doesn't work that way. You can't say it counts for one person but not the other.

I never said scum never does that? strange is still a scumread of mine.

why are you getting mad rn lol when did I call you defensive

*your being present in-thread rn and this being the next tab in my catchup are pure coincidence btw

I think you're reading too much into RVS.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

is that why you voted them?

Already answered this. I put the vote to see what would happen.

Nora are you really just going to continue to pick and choose which posts of mine you'll read? Because if you're going to continue to death tunnel me over literally nothing I'd rather just self hammer and sign up for a new game. I already explained and answered everything I could yet you can't even be bothered to respond.

I'm town reading Nora at this point but I honestly wish I wasn't. Pretty sure she's just a townie giving scum a free Day 1.

I'm wondering if the first post here TMIs Nora as town, and the second 7 minutes later is damage control, but this is only conjecture/bookmarking thoughts

What damage control? What TMI? Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here? Especially the "that's what I would do if I were scum" comment Nora made, that is 100% fabrication to prop up a false narrative. I don't care what you think you'd do or what you think is hypothetically going on in my head, because the reality of the situation is that theories and speculation don't matter when the facts are much more straightforward and simple.

If you think I'm scum, put your vote on me and flip me. I'm more than fine with you guys taking heat Day 2 once I flip green. I don't see any other way to stop paranoid SEs from trying to force their bad habits on newbies who are just trying to pick up the game.

me: this is only conjecture
roden: why are you trying to present this as fact??

[The Bulge]

back-against-the-wall, everyone-is-against-me attitude from roden moving him way up my list. let's talk, noraa!

im gone now tho fr gn

[The Bulge]

when you made 52, you were talking about me and Noraa at first. why did you then start talking about "Leaving out part of someone's thoughts"?

Most of it was just trying to be trustworthy considering past experiences of having others not trust me, and Town being in complete chaos with nobody working together.

sorry, this doesn't answer my question at all lol. i dont know how else to make you understand so im gonna drop it.

[The Bulge]

Roden, I hope you've had a good night's sleep and are in a better mood today. have you had a chance to reread our exchange from last night at all? because youre looking to me like textbook flailing scum. you became very emotional for no reason at all, and were accusing me of things I never even said or did. anything you wanna add/change to what you said?

[The Bulge]

VOTE: The Bulge

I don't think scum sticks to a narrative of that long @buldge -- look at how roden didn't give up their reasoning. This is possibly tvt.

huh?

woops wrong person -- yall pfps are similar

UNVOTE: BimbleSticks
VOTE: illiwee

what makes you suspicious of illwei?

[The Bulge]

Roden, I hope you've had a good night's sleep and are in a better mood today. have you had a chance to reread our exchange from last night at all? because youre looking to me like textbook flailing scum. you became very emotional for no reason at all, and were accusing me of things I never even said or did. anything you wanna add/change to what you said?

You just can't help yourself can you? I meant everything I said.

uh, sure. so youre doubling down on claiming that I said you were being defensive yesterday? can you point that out to me? or that I was presenting my takes as fact when I explicitly said it was only conjecture/getting my notes out. wanna explain that one a little more?

Every single post is you or Nora talking down to me. You're being rude and condescending for literally no reason, and no matter how many times I bring it up you just refuse to stop.

show me where I've been rude to you? serious question. because you were talking to me in 173 and 178 like I'm an idiot, and I cant find a single instance of me being condescending to you (except after you started throwing your little tantrum, because like....lol)

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

why are they flimsy? all you've actually done is whine about it. show me why my arguments are weak.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

i mean if youre scum youre scum, so "good enough for me" is either 1) you show me that you are town or 2) you are dead. so far you've done nothing to push the needle closer to option 1. if youre town and are genuinely trying to fight your own elimination, then you need to rethink your approach, because throwing a pissfit like this is not it.

You're accusing me of flailing over an argument you continue to instigate.

what do you mean by this?

Despite everything, neither you or Nora feel like you have to answer my own questions. You discount and discredit and ignore every single comment and observation I make.

which questions have I avoided? I'd be happy to answer anything I've missed.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

LMAO you mean besides Noraa and the two people voting you (italiano and illwei) ,ie, literally half the game? like bruh are you even reading the game or do you just keep saying shit?

even if this statement was even a little bit based in reality, uh, so what? nobody should push a read unless someone else shares it? that's not how the game works, come now.

and when I vote you all you do is paint me as being emotional to discredit any reads I have on you.

my guy, I don't need to "paint you" as emotional

what's your read on me then? all I saw was a naked omgus vote.

If you think I'm scum, then actually push my wagon instead of just poking at me page after page.

??? what's the difference lol

Take me to E-1, I'll hammer myself. Because at this point I'm fairly certain you're scum, and you will 100% be in the hot seat Day 2 since you have refused to discuss anything else and everyone will see me flip green.

yep yep yep if you open my ISO you can see it clear as day that I haven't discussed anything else besides your slot, yessir.

And no, no one will buy your argument that I was just a townie who played poorly. You town read me and told Nora we were TvT. You still jumped in and continued to fight with me. You will not be able to convince anyone that you had no idea I was town.

idk what to tell you here. reads change. I had a tonal townread on you which you have now ripped from my hands and wiped your ass with.

[The Bulge]

I'm not really sure why I'm getting called defensive for reacting to getting death tunneled on page 2, but somebody saying "my post wasn't serious, your reaction is suspicious" gets a free pass.

Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here?

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like. if you're town, Roden, please relax, realize nobody is out to get you on a personal level, and realize that if you're being whiny and unpleasant as a defense, all that will get you is more votes. I'm trying to give you a chance to gather yourself and to pay closer attention to the thread when you're reading and responding to posts. if you're gonna be obstinate about that, then you don't get any benefit of the doubt, and I'd happily see you hammered into oblivion.

[The Bulge]

gotta run (sorry Noraa), busy night ahead of me. Roden, take a deep breath before responding.

[The Bulge]

I'll have time this evening to catch up

[The Bulge]

Cabd have you read yet?

[The Bulge]

So I will ask you this @Roden, what do you feel like is different from here than in the game you played? Are there specific posts / quotes you can point out to me?

Bulge never fought people or engaged in ad hominem in that game. I answered his questions the same I did here and we both moved on. He didn't tunnel anyone, and in general he played a much more laid back game especially on Day 1.

I don't think town Bulge gets this invested in an argument that he doesn't think is going anywhere, and especially so when he's convinced someone is scum. Town Bulge is also more vote happy, but he RVS voted Nora just to get her attention, then voted and immediately unvoted Strange with zero explanation. He hasn't bothered to vote for anyone else, not even an apparent textbook scum.

PSA - this is the wrong way to use meta. "I don't think town Bulge _____" is a wildly bold statement to make after playing 1 game with me.

[The Bulge]

Bulge is 0% of a threat compared to Cabd.

ow

[The Bulge]

Cabd, did I poke scum to the point of illogical flailing, or just piss off a newbie?

[The Bulge]

Cabd, did I poke scum to the point of illogical flailing, or just piss off a newbie?

Finishing my read-up but I'm torn if Roden makes sense as the Ilwee partner.

I guess uh spoiler alert about scumread primero uno.

yea all I had on illwei's slot before was the one early post that gave me good vibes that I think ydra mentioned as well, but upon catching up Illwei looks a lot more to me like scum without a lot to latch onto than low-effort town.

[The Bulge]

I've just wasted half an hour of my life responding to your lies. I'm becoming sympathetic to Noraa's position of just voting you out regardless of your alignment, you're too annoying to work with and I find it frustrating responding to an argument against me that's just based on nonsense.

god I relate to this whole post so hard. why I didn't respond to 239. bimble's recent string of posts are very very townie.

[The Bulge]

if illwei flips scum after Zyla was scum in 2065, I'm never doubting the TBH tell again

[The Bulge]

To me, Roden reads as somebody incredibly frustrated by the game and people's perception, and determined to feel heard and validated, damn the torpedoes.

I think what grandpamo was saying makes sense to me now, about roden staying this path. I think people on this site too often assume that scum plays optimally at all times and is immune to accidentally weakening their own position (like when people say "why would they make this really sloppy move as scum?" I tend to think "because whatever we were doing worked"). but the statements Roden makes in his moments of passion are so consistently false and nonsensical I'm not sure I'm comfortable reading the reactionary posting as AI after all.

[The Bulge]

To me, Roden reads as somebody incredibly frustrated by the game and people's perception, and determined to feel heard and validated, damn the torpedoes.

I think what grandpamo was saying makes sense to me now, about roden staying this path. I think people on this site too often assume that scum plays optimally at all times and is immune to accidentally weakening their own position (like when people say "why would they make this really sloppy move as scum?" I tend to think "because whatever we were doing worked"). but the statements Roden makes in his moments of passion are so consistently false and nonsensical I'm not sure I'm comfortable reading the reactionary posting as AI after all.

thing is tho I'm reminded very strongly of Duchess v Green Crayons in 2195. and I loathe to let my loud and correct scumreads slip through my fingers. ahhhh. still probably gonna ignore for today, despite what some people have side I really don't think town!Roden is all that great an info flip.

[The Bulge]

*what people have said

[The Bulge]

I'm not sure pi's opener comes from a scum replacement? just the immediate vibe I got.

[The Bulge]

I'm reminded very strongly of Duchess v Green Crayons in 2195

I am unfamiliar with this lore. Link it?

viewtopic.php?t=85877&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

duchess is me which Im sure you knew

[The Bulge]

start at 133

[The Bulge]

maaaaaan. :/

[The Bulge]

I'm reminded very strongly of Duchess v Green Crayons in 2195

I am unfamiliar with this lore. Link it?

viewtopic.php?t=85877&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

duchess is me which Im sure you knew

Didn't know that, actually.

I see where you might find parallels, but I am going to stick to my gut-guns sand say this isn't the same scenario here.

The self righteousness here comes off as town to me, and it'll take a lot to shake me on that read.

Your trying makes me happy that I have you both in the green tier, although I doubt you'll kiss and make up.

I miss Noraa, trolling her was fun and yggdra is so srsbsns.

ah i was thinking i revealed after popcorn redux. well enjoy that little addendum to my meta file then.

I think I see what you mean, where GC came off more skeevy, roden shows more direct emotional reaction that doesn't necessarily have an agenda.

[The Bulge]

noted, lol

[The Bulge]

if illwei flips scum after Zyla was scum in 2065, I'm never doubting the TBH tell again

The whatnow

Although, this post stood out to me.

I have not looked at Bulge yet - but this felt weird - not because of illwei, because illwei's iso has "tbh" thrown in like 20+times already.

But, I was in 2065, and lead the push against Zyla. The Bulge never mentioned it at all that game. I went back and checked, and by the end of the game Zyla had said tbh 4 times total - and just to compare, I said it 9 times.

Idk, this seems weird for Bulge to reference that other game here

Zyla's iso that game is chock full of "honestly, i'll be honest, to be fair" etc etc. and I didn't mention it then because, well, I doubted it, like I said. it's a bit of a meme-tell and a weak case on its own and I didn't feel it was valid enough to bring up.

[The Bulge]

it was very much in my notes, tho

[The Bulge]

In your first game, you were town - you made 62 posts, and you said "tbh" zero times

In this game, have have made 42 posts, and have said "tbh" 25 times

this is unironically extremely compelling hahahaha

[The Bulge]

That model is going to be incredibly difficult to accurately describe while driving so I'm not going to even try until I'm home and settled in for the night instead I can talk about the bork till which is absolutely easy to describe while driving via voice to text.

The bork tell in its purest form is this: a player who is widely scum red and incredibly likely to be eliminated during the day phase is suddenly revealed to be either confirmed town or incredibly likely town by way of moderator action or some sort of town investigative or by revealing themselves as innocent child or friendly neighbor. The scum player then has visible frustration in the tone of their posting reassurance in the game thread that their scum read was valid. Depending on the personality of the player they may additionally try to salvage the ability to scum read the slot. Regardless the slot never dies and scum stays salty

is this about my reference to the Duchess game?

[The Bulge]

Bulge's read transition on Roden also stood out to me --- Going from "this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like" to "Cabd, did I poke scum to the point of illogical flailing, or just piss off a newbie?" seemed odd, because there was very little indication that anything changed between bulge and Roden - and I am unclear why Cabd replacing in would result in him softening his stance?

my position didnt change or soften between those posts. Cabd was a fresh new voice in the game, one whose outlook I value and respect very much.

[The Bulge]

let's yeet bimblesticks

VOTE: bimble

what are you seeing? I don't think bimble's most recent post is necessary to make as scum vying for the illwei miselim, for instance

[The Bulge]

strange is super fucking town lol, what are you talking about lukewarm

I don't see this either, why do you think so?

Cabd feel free to explain your initial strangematter TR as well? I know it's faltering but what were you picking up on. do they fit some kind of model?

[The Bulge]

bulge might be scum

bulge, do you prefer town or scum, I don't remember? (also, you're indifferent to pronouns used for you (between he/she) iirc?)

I generally prefer scum. indifferent to pronouns but it's usually he or they.

do I know you?

[The Bulge]

the claim's whatever, Cabd is probably the best check so I'm there for that

[The Bulge]

think im sitting somewhere at

grandpamo
sang froid
ydrasse
bimblesticks

lukewarm

cabd

strangematter
illwei

[The Bulge]

yea i like that order.

[The Bulge]

I'm worried cabd is playing a slow game of curating a believable trajectory for his reads. he has talked a lot of Illwei talk but hasn't pushed the push himself up to this point. it's worth noting that a lot of Illwei discussion has been generated as a result, but cabd has done very little as far as direct action. and now with myself and strangematter dropping in his reads, it makes me think Cabd never meant to stick on Illwei til the end after all.

this tinfoily scenario i think allows for the possibility of a Cabd/illwei pairing but I'm getting way ahead of myself. I just didnt want my paranoia to sit idly and fester like it did in illicit substances vs morph.

[The Bulge]

I know you've been busy, yes

[The Bulge]

Lady of the Year draw would you mind going ahead and unpacking your case to get me out of what is going to be a very polite but very focused tunnel onto Mr illway here.

what's this alluding to then?

[The Bulge]

ok cool, the worst thing that possibly could have happened with that random ass claim happened, good, solid

i wasnt gonna express my frustration at the claim because last time I did that in a Newbie i was big time scum and didnt want to throw anyone for a loop in reading me this game. but like.....fuck man

[The Bulge]

im still at work and not even on break rn, ill get to unanswered questions later

[The Bulge]

ydra stays noided

[The Bulge]

christ this game. I'm caught up and have over a dozen tabs open but instead of writing anything in them I am going to go get drunk off frozen coolers and just post in the AM. toodles!

[The Bulge]

I was asking yggdrasae to explain why she felt ilway was town. My uh. Syntax is limited when driving. Voice to text tends to butcher a lot of things.

idk to me "very polite but very focused tunnel" implies an active push is somewhere on the horizon

[The Bulge]

I can hammer but lemme finish my post dump first hehe

[The Bulge]

In your first game, you were town - you made 62 posts, and you said "tbh" zero times

In this game, have have made 42 posts, and have said "tbh" 25 times

this is unironically extremely compelling hahahaha

Please tell me this is a joke

Comparing your current game (where you alignment is unknown) to your other games, where we know your alignment is a pretty effective way to sort people you are unsure on.

Well, yes... but, with "tbh" ? : P

that is really a shocking statistic yea lol. it's not really the same as a meta tell, because I'm not saying "Illwei is scum because as town he never says tbh". what I'm saying is the TBH tell is real, and affects new players more than anyone else, but it means absolutely nothing if "tbh" or any other variant is a common part of a person's normal lexicon. the fact that you said it zero times in your town game, contrasted with how densely packed your usage is here, tells me it's not necessarily just a natural way of speaking for you, and could very well be scum-indicative.

[The Bulge]

@The Buldge, can I ask why I'm (what I'm assuming from this list) one of your scumreads right now?

mostly gut, and you've been fencesitty since the start of the game, making almost no definitive statements about anything, and have made a lot of posts with empty observations.

[The Bulge]

What is even the point of CCing if you are just going to immediately say "ahahhaha it is NAI from me and a joke!!" I'd at least wait longer to see what happens

this sounds informed ?

[The Bulge]

don’t make me doubt illwei now ahhh

I'm just a humble thread re-reader bringing up old shit right before a deadline, don't mind me

[The Bulge]

Grandpa, the issue here is that, if you are town, you cc'ing sang hurts the town --

Regardless of you telling the truth or "joke" ccing...
Regardless of sang telling the truth or fake claiming...

There is no scenario where you cc'ing there helps the town win, but there are plenty of scenarios where it could make the town more likely to lose.

There is a difference between wanting to have fun and joking around, and actively hurting the town. Your cc was the latter, and so yeah, it frustrates me. I am in this game trying to win, and I just saw you doing something that makes it harder for that happen :/

I mean I can have some pretty light hearted posts in a game (looks back at the unnecessarily flowery letter I wrote for cabd) -- but, I try to make sure that when I am being light hearted and having a good time, I am not hurting my own (and my teammates) win condition

pretty sure I had this tabbed just to quote+signal boost. goodposting.

[The Bulge]

What is even the point of CCing if you are just going to immediately say "ahahhaha it is NAI from me and a joke!!" I'd at least wait longer to see what happens

no.

see this is scum.

why do you wanna wait to see what sang wants to say?

did you want to sang to actually CLAIM cop there? and get a cc on me so u could figure out who is real or not?

if it's a cover then there's no point in taking it back even if you're getting heat. if you are the real doc then why cc right now when he wasn't going to be voted off anyways.

oh this sound REALLY informed huh

[The Bulge]

no offence but it's not nai and you doing this has become an Event that people have to talk about because of the posts that happened, so you don't get to tell people to not focus on it.

my take is that it was a very dumb thing to do and you should know better for next time.

no. just because i cced, how could it be my fault for town to follow up on it being real? luke is just assuming sang's claim is real. and cabd is just having prehaps town paranoia. the point is, is that it was obvious it wasn't a real claim. that's what im trying to say here. it shouldn't have been taken as a real claim either way. luke knows my playstyle, idk why this is getting fed up with them. they know i wouldn't do something like that as town or heck even as scum.

uh take this as Life Advice i guess as much as you take it as mafia advice, but this is a really bad/fallacious outlook on accountability in general.

[The Bulge]

I think illwoo looks good out of this

how's that? did you see his doc comment? any thoughts?

[The Bulge]

If we are in both are town then I have to accept two players on MY team are throwing for the lulz and that's a really sad pill to swallow.

[The Bulge]

What is even the point of CCing if you are just going to immediately say "ahahhaha it is NAI from me and a joke!!" I'd at least wait longer to see what happens

this sounds informed ?

uh, no

What is even the point of CCing if you are just going to immediately say "ahahhaha it is NAI from me and a joke!!" I'd at least wait longer to see what happens

no.

see this is scum.

why do you wanna wait to see what sang wants to say?

did you want to sang to actually CLAIM cop there? and get a cc on me so u could figure out who is real or not?

if it's a cover then there's no point in taking it back even if you're getting heat. if you are the real doc then why cc right now when he wasn't going to be voted off anyways.

oh this sound REALLY informed huh

also very much no

ok!

[The Bulge]

I guess the main reason I got that sense from it is that I don't think anyone else was making assumptions about what's what in that moment.

[The Bulge]

+ the assumption there's a doc, but that could just be a newbtell i guess

[The Bulge]

didnt think of that, could be

[The Bulge]

anyway

VOTE: grandpa

[The Bulge]

supreme taste

[The Bulge]

I guess the main reason I got that sense from it is that I don't think anyone else was making assumptions about what's what in that moment.

i... don't really understand what you're saying here tbh? could you rephrase pls

lol mb. i meant like Illwei seemed more in tune with what was going on than anyone else? if that makes more sense

[The Bulge]

lol mb. i meant like Illwei seemed more in tune with what was going on than anyone else? if that makes more sense

lmao I didn't even notice I said Doc and not Cop until I was catching up

lol fair

that is really a shocking statistic yea lol. it's not really the same as a meta tell, because I'm not saying "Illwei is scum because as town he never says tbh". what I'm saying is the TBH tell is real, and affects new players more than anyone else, but it means absolutely nothing if "tbh" or any other variant is a common part of a person's normal lexicon. the fact that you said it zero times in your town game, contrasted with how densely packed your usage is here, tells me it's not necessarily just a natural way of speaking for you, and could very well be scum-indicative.

lmao I blame a certain Monsieur Boquise who I encountered on MU for it's sudden appearance and disappearance in my vocabulary

mm not sure if fair but ok

[The Bulge]

i think i want to grill cabd today. i for sure need to reread the game before going anywhere specific, but this is i think where i want to start. strangematter is still reading very scummy to me but my instincts tell me not today.

VOTE: Cabd

[The Bulge]

i imagine because that's probably what I'll want to do if certain things don't occur before then.

[The Bulge]

@bulge, can you elaborate more on those scummy instincts please?

I'd rather not! but it's really no different from the usual list of "things that might happen in a mafia game that would make me want to never eliminate a certain player"

[The Bulge]

there's not a lot I can do here before I get my reread in, which I'm hoping to get to tonight or tomorrow.

[The Bulge]

there's your more elaborate answer, ydrasse

[The Bulge]

weird page

[The Bulge]

I got about 10 pages into a readthrough this morning btw before I had to work. so far I've reach a few new conclusions already:

1. Illwei's early game is even stronger than I remember, and I'd believe in a heartbeat that their falling off as the game progressed is simply due to their "IRL wim being non-existant"

2. grandpa was so obviously town it hurts, but he fucked up and that lim happened. haven't gotten around to that part yet but I will of course be looking closely at what everyone was suggesting we do about the joke claim.

3. Italiano was even scummier than I remember lol

[The Bulge]

more reading later, I realize the deadline is approaching, but I will probably still want to do cabd today. I also have a pretty good idea of where I stand regarding ^^^^all this shit but I'll hold onto that for the time being

[The Bulge]

In his scum game, he feels a bit more erratic and pulls reads straight out of his ass is kinda the feeling that I get. And the reason I think that is because I ISOed him and I think that basically what happens when he is scum is he kinda that he just lurks and occasionally gives opinions until someone else starts a big wagon and then he jumps on with bad reasoning but no one pays much attention cuz they all think its gonna flip red. In ISO it looks particularly funny but Bulge is almost certainly town here.

i just wanna know what game this scathing review was about

ftr i win most of my scumgames

[The Bulge]

So do you have any opinions of a Mason claim, and a Cop claim in the same game? Also, what makes outting Cabd more important to lim today?

like I said, im gonna hold my tongue for now, but yes I think you and sang are both town.

[The Bulge]

Right now the person I'm the least certain on anything right now is Bimblesticks. Really want them to participate in the conversations more to read anything conclusive on them.

OK sure! I'm going to try not to get prodded for a third time this game, it's just that every time I log on to read I see a lot of stuff I don't really have strong feelings on.

also grampamo, stop quoting long posts and saying a sentence about it if you are town! that's a scum tactic to waste space.

I agree with this sentiment - reading through this thread took twice as long bc of the amount of stuff I had to read from GrandpaMo, most of which I don't think was really necessary.

Right now the person I'm the least certain on anything right now is Bimblesticks. Really want them to participate in the conversations more to read anything conclusive on them.

VOTE: Bimblesticks

I think that's a bit quick to throw a vote on me there. I'll go ahead and return the favour.
UNVOTE: Bakslash
VOTE: Illwei


Not going to quote any posts to support this as there are so many but I don't buy that Noraa vs Roden is tvt. I understand people can get heated, especially when they perceive the other person as being not just agressive but unreasonable, but I think Roden acted really strangely here. They were extremely defensive, and voted against The Bulge despite seemingly everyone else in this thread either reading him as neutral or town (I personally read him as strongly town). I recognise the argument that scum wouldn't act like that for fear of being perceived as too different, but I also feel like a townie wouldn't act so strongly in response what feels to me like, if I'm being honest, perfectly standard questioning, out of fear it could make their SRs seem less valid. I think it just creates a lot of badwill.

Both scum are in this pool and im close to 100% sure of it
{Illwei, piisirrational/Bakslash, Roden, Bimblesticks, ItalianoVD}

if any of them start pushing outside of the pool, that's gonna look bad because im certain that Strangematter, Grandpa Mo, and Bulge are town. I think it's pretty obvious that I am town but if anyone wants to challenge that, go ahead.

I'm confused about a lot of this. StrangeMatter's message seemed to strike a chord with you, and you thought "The mix of emotion and trying to restrain themself, IS HIGHLY TOWN INDICATIVE". I don't really see that? I mean obviously you have more experience at this but Strange's pushing on Illwei over scumday did seem really weird to me and their follow-ups, although they didn't make me any more suspicious, also didn't make me inclined to trust them in any way? They just seem like standard messages to me.

I agree Bulge is likely town. I don't feel strongly either way about GrandpaMo, if anything I lean slightly towards them being scum, if only because most of their posts this game don't seem like they contributed much to the conversation.

IN response to your 5 potential scum: Even though I did vote for Illwei, it was mainly because he voted for me. I honestly don't know if I think he's scum, he still reads to me as town, and from his perspective his vote might've just been intentioned to see if it annoyed me and made me say anything suspicious, as opposed to wanting to actually see me hanged. I actually still read Illwei as town. I don't have any strong feelings on piisirrational either way, aside from them not RVing at first which I think is pretty minor. But, I found Italiano's behaviour weird, and nothing swayed me in Cabd's initial posts, so I'm inclined to be most suspicious of them right now.

I don't think I paid much attention initially to bimble's early posting, i had no read there until he started to engage Roden, but looking back those posts very very easily come from scum tryna pick up the torch noraa and i had dropped. anyway this one here is pretty bad. first bit strikes me as newbscum because newbtown i think would simply.....post. about stuff that's happening. bimble's standards for when to post seem unnaturally high here. second bit is just kinda funny lol, i hope nobody is feeling like they have to read the quoted posts in full every time, but also choosing to add onto that post from Noraa is probscum. the Illwei vote is obviously ?????? and he then goes on to try and dismantle the common sentiment that me/Roden is TvT

[The Bulge]

Okay so yeah after initial catch up I'm somewhere around here-ish:

The Town

Ydrasse
The Bulge
Roden

The Lean Town

StrangeMatter

Real Time Interaction Data Gathering Needed (Nulls ish)

GrandpaMo
piisirrational

The Not Town

Illwei

curious that bimblesticks does not appear on this list...

[The Bulge]

I will say tho, this has been a fun game so far, but man is it a slog to read

[The Bulge]

bonk

[The Bulge]

ugh this is probably a step in the wrong direction but I think I was only locktowning noraa via cabd :/ I did have my own solid TR of her, but I am historically Bad At Reading Noraa so idk, ydra hasn't done anything i can recall to impress me. if the slot is scum it's probably only ever with Cabd.

it would probably serve town best is everyone ignores this post until maybe later in the game if we're ever dealing with deepwolf'd stragglers

[The Bulge]

Illwei, if you don't want to get voted today, I'd appreciate it if you answered some questions:

1. Why did you vote for me? What is your read on me at the moment, considering you haven't unvoted?

2. Why have you been reacting to everything with apathy? Do you just not care about this game?

3. Do you genuinely belive cabd/mo are the scumteam? Can you not understand why people are suspicious of you?

Also, I disagree with Ydresse that Post 363 is a town post. The argument made here doesn't make sense, townies should obviously want as much information as possible and to pressure people that vote for them.

huh im struggling to put to words how I feel about this post but it doesnt strike me as reaching out to an actual scumread

[The Bulge]

I finished my read last night btw. if we're getting a replacement in that slot, I say we actually hold off on the hammer and see if we can squeeze anything out of some early pressure.

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE:

idk if cabd selfhammers here or what but if we have a deadline pause let's use it

[The Bulge]

I should clarify with my unvote that I'm still 1000% down for that lim today, however

[The Bulge]

it's literally T3 and cabd lol, ur all welcome

i mean yea that's where im at

VOTE: cabd

[The Bulge]

Illwei please hammer cabd, regardless of your personal reads, I promise you sang is not the correct elimination today.

[The Bulge]

and it would in fact be gamethrowing

[The Bulge]

wait strange pls vote cabd

[The Bulge]

I should probably just say what I was thinking earlier at this point. first thing I asked myself is: why is sang alive?

if mafia knew it was a fakeclaim, they would have to be in column B, which means StrangeMatter is lying, which I find unlikely. *UNLESS mafia gambled on it being a fakeclaim simply from thread context.

if mafia had a roleblocker on sang, all it means is they really wanted lukewarm/rodenslot dead. the slot was definitely unlimmable, and maybe luke was onto something? worth looking into overnight.

if sang is mafia, they have me fooled for the time being, and so did the previous slot owners. if this is the case, I'm willing to deal with it tomorrow, since a cabd flip + whatever info we get from tonight's kill will have us better prepared for it.

strangematter is still reading very scummy to me but my instincts tell me not today.

this was about me reading an innocent from sang on strangematter from post 827, either in the form of a cop inno or masons. I don't know fully what to think about the potential theatre between them that ensued, but maybe that will be cleared up when strange arrives or just with info from the next couple flips.

[The Bulge]

T3 scumming up the thread with massive false information lmao

obviously if strange flips, we have a confirmed town in strange's mason partner.

[The Bulge]

not to mention we will only be in 5p, not 3p

hahahahahahahahahhaha i think that's probably a slip because he knows when we lim cabd, a 5p final wont ever be possible

[The Bulge]

and the fact that T3 only ever tries this hard as scum

[The Bulge]

5p final

5p limlo*, that is

[The Bulge]

IF SANG FLIPS COP, THEN WE ARE IN AUTOWIN.

wtf? lol

i trust illwei and strange to ignore that post, at least

[The Bulge]

they have both posted around this time of day itt so we should be ok for deadline, not sure about illwei for weekends but I'm not terribly worried yet

[The Bulge]

....ok im officially worried. i probably wont be around now until deadline. just... eliminate cabd and bimble

[The Bulge]

i wanna bump to the next page for that e-1 vc

[The Bulge]

also to bury t3's largespam i guess

[The Bulge]

somebody please hammer for the love of god

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cabd

[The Bulge]

do it T3 I see you online

if you don't hammer Cabd and there's no elimination you're literally confscum and the game is lost for you

[The Bulge]

lol

[The Bulge]

if sang could come confirm and confirm their claim that would make things a hell of a lot easier, even if it outs both our masons atp

[The Bulge]

I should probably just say what I was thinking earlier at this point. first thing I asked myself is: why is sang alive?

if mafia knew it was a fakeclaim, they would have to be in column B, which means StrangeMatter is lying, which I find unlikely. *UNLESS mafia gambled on it being a fakeclaim simply from thread context.

if mafia had a roleblocker on sang, all it means is they really wanted lukewarm/rodenslot dead. the slot was definitely unlimmable, and maybe luke was onto something? worth looking into overnight.

if sang is mafia, they have me fooled for the time being, and so did the previous slot owners. if this is the case, I'm willing to deal with it tomorrow, since a cabd flip + whatever info we get from tonight's kill will have us better prepared for it.

strangematter is still reading very scummy to me but my instincts tell me not today.

this was about me reading an innocent from sang on strangematter from post 827, either in the form of a cop inno or masons. I don't know fully what to think about the potential theatre between them that ensued, but maybe that will be cleared up when strange arrives or just with info from the next couple flips.

[The Bulge]

sang hardclaimed cop with a guilty on confirmed town.

If Illwei is mason I'm just going to lol

when did sang claim a result?

[The Bulge]

the part where you say sang claimed a guilty on cabd lil

[The Bulge]

*lol

[The Bulge]

I've been loud and wrong enough times. it doesn't feel so bad. but nothing's worse than giving up on a read I was right about. i wont budge on sang.

[The Bulge]

bullshit, but here i am reading double ISOs with 5 mins left

[The Bulge]

meh, sorry if im wrong, but i dont see anythjng to make me change my mind from when i wasnt in sucha rush. cabd should self.

[The Bulge]

seriously, sorry if im wrong.

[The Bulge]

at least its not t3 at the block rn

[The Bulge]

im town

[The Bulge]

dreading the aftermath of this

[The Bulge]

lets goooooo

[The Bulge]

sigh

t3 please read the fucking game before doing that shit

[The Bulge]

thank you all for leaving me to do all that deadline shit by myself btw, you're welcome for the dead scum and the not-completely-fucking-ruined game.

/salt

[The Bulge]

Cabd had a really weird relationship with both Noraa and Illwei. idk yet how im gonna approach this, ive had theories about both pairings but im p sure i referred to both as tinfoily so i need to just tear all my reads down and start from scratch.

Ydrasse and illwei, start talking!

[The Bulge]

one thousand

[The Bulge]

oh wait lmao
I dont need to think about this game we already won it hahaha

[The Bulge]

(just eliminate both of them)

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Illwei

here first i suppose

[The Bulge]

what the fuck

[The Bulge]

i am literally conftown what the fuck just happened

[The Bulge]

???????????????????.?..???

[The Bulge]

i am losing my mind

[The Bulge]

i need to not be posting right now. holy shit.

[The Bulge]

seriously did a single fucking person read the whole end of day fiasco???????????? i know this is a newbie game but like uhhhhhhhhhdhdhjdjskskskakakakqk ok im logging off

[The Bulge]

there goes the literal autowin lmao, wp ydrasse

[The Bulge]

cabd hooting and hollering in the dead pt rn

[The Bulge]

ok ive calmed down but i need a break.from this queue

[The Bulge]

sorry if ive been a dick

[The Bulge]

i am town and was seriously irate, but im not mad at you. when there's a town autowin staring you in the face and you have an opening to sneak out of it i cant blame you. even if you're serious about conceding to the fact the masons won't ever go for illwei, its no hard feelings.


That said,

@everyone, please eliminate ydrasse tomorrow

[The Bulge]

tell me to my face you read end of day and saw the cabd flip and saw the sang flip and still think it is anywhere within the realm of reason that i could be scum

[The Bulge]

and show ur work please, i think datisi is sleeping

[The Bulge]

i mean i originally thought it was illwei becase the sang kill was a misplay, obviously they had to kill within {strange/t3/bulge/sang} but imo that list would be in order of conftown-ness if all of us were somehow alive coming into today, so sang is the least favourable kill of the 4. and then yea your position on cabdwagon.

if you are actually town, you threw the game by not reading eod. i am only confscumming you rn because i dont want to believe you threw that hard. if i was eliminated by 3 town in an autowin situation, i have no words.

[The Bulge]

tell me to my face you read end of day and saw the cabd flip and saw the sang flip and still think it is anywhere within the realm of reason that i could be scum

im still here btw

[The Bulge]

im not letting you salvage this game lol

[The Bulge]

if youre town pls stop posting or i will say some possibly very hurtful things about your townplay

[The Bulge]

TO SUMMARIZE, when cabd flipped, scum were fucked. there was 2 mod confirmed townies (the masons) and 2 circumstantially confirmed townies (the counterwagon, and the person who absolutely refused to take his vote off of scumCabd and onto VTsang). all we needed to do for the win was eliminate both of the nonconfirmed players. Easy. i meant it when i said we wouldnt even have to think about it, that is simply the correct town play in this situation.

Ydrasse is experienced enough to know all of this.

she is making a desperation play to win an unwinnable game, and so far its working, because im dead. rn, phase 2 of that plan is to muddy the thread, which honestly im starting to contribute to as well, so this will be my last post.

[The Bulge]

TO SUMMARIZE, when cabd flipped, scum were fucked. there was 2 mod confirmed townies (the masons) and 2 circumstantially confirmed townies (the counterwagon, and the person who absolutely refused to take his vote off of scumCabd and onto VTsang). all we needed to do for the win was eliminate both of the nonconfirmed players. Easy. i meant it when i said we wouldnt even have to think about it, that is simply the correct town play in this situation.

Ydrasse is experienced enough to know all of this.

she is making a desperation play to win an unwinnable game, and so far its working, because im dead. rn, phase 2 of that plan is to muddy the thread, which honestly im starting to contribute to as well, so this will be my last post.

[The Bulge]

this is 100000000% the correct time for scumYdrasse to be using AtE

[The Bulge]

so this will be my last post.

lol sorry i just want that sweet green bar on my wiki