Newbie 2074 | Game Over

[Ythan]

Hello friends.

[Ythan]

My avatar backs up my story.

My avatar quacks up my story.

(I thought this was pretty funny)

[Ythan]

snip

Idk your time zone but happy birthday to ur mom.

[Ythan]

I want to sheep Dann but I don't want to deincentivize funny posts hmmm.

[Ythan]

In post 66 I am talking about post 47.

[Ythan]

I think Dann's good at Mafia. Plus his posts are most of the not fluff so far, and sound.

[Ythan]

And why aren’t you, besides preventing humorous posts?

There's no besides that's the reason.

[Ythan]

Okay sure.

VOTE: Val89

[Ythan]

Funky VCs! Excited to see what they look like by the end of the day.

[Ythan]

Hi Sal I'm awake how's it going?

[Ythan]

I'm from 09 and I don't read meta.

[Ythan]

Nah when people make scummy posts I just vote them I don't go read additional games first.

[Ythan]

No I'm sheeping Dann this occurred all of twenty posts ago.

[Ythan]

Lol vote go

Val89 (2):

[Ythan]

I'm a VT.

Don't claim for no reason this is @everyone.

[Ythan]

Hi Sal I'm awake how's it going?

Not good buddy, not feeling well... what about you?

Sorry to hear that.

I'm on the road for a mini vacation because I got two whole days in a row off work.

[Ythan]

I don't think of ythan as usually that... hesitant? Careful?

Games are one thing but theoretical influence on site culture is serious business!

[Ythan]

I'm a VT.

don't do this

also why did you do this

but don't do this

Gets the game going doesn't it.

Don't though.

[Ythan]

VOTE: JamesTheNames

[Ythan]

Maybe you did. You shouldn't do that in the future. Everyone telling you that knows what they're talking about and newbie games are for learning things like this.

VOTE: Val89

[Ythan]

Maybe you did. You shouldn't do that in the future. Everyone telling you that knows what they're talking about and newbie games are for learning things like this.

VOTE: Val89

Newbie games are also for experimenting.

I've told you the facts and whether you absorb them at this point is on you.

[Ythan]

assuming you are town, you have made it easier for mafia to hunt down PRs, and if you are lying broke down any trust you will have with the rest of the town

furthermore, the game was already going, there was stuff to talk about. Why didn't you engage with the rest of the game first?

Are you implying the game develops better when there is only 1 thing going on, 1 thing to consider, or just because it was your push on Val89?

Sure doesn't look like it to me looks like he's correctly telling you why you are objectively incorrect to claim right now.

Pedit yeah

[Ythan]

@Ythan why did you retract the vote on me by the way? Between your vote and your unvote my only posts was reiterating why I claimed, and me saying how many posts had to do with my claim.

The post in between clarified that you're probably just wrong and not trolling. I wasn't expecting you to repeat what you had said previously.

[Ythan]

Why doesn't a troll simply repeat themselves?

I think you on the other hand are being intentionally dense.

[Ythan]

And I think you should answer the question rather than deflecting.

God to know fedora.

[Ythan]

Good to

[Ythan]

Welcome newbie enjoy your time on MS.

[Ythan]

Welcome newbie enjoy your time on MS.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this read to me as back-handed insult. So please clarify - what's your intent here??

No you got it.

[Ythan]

I won't comment further regarding that game as said game is ongoing.

Doing this just a little bit is not any less against the rules.

[Ythan]

I did the same thing in my last game then got hammered from 0 votes to 5 votes within the span of about 4 hours before D1 ended due to time. I wanted to try it again.

This looks like not playing to your win condition which is another equally serious rule.

[Ythan]

The purpose of newbie games is in part to learn the rules of the site, particularly when you repeatedly demonstratethat you need correcting. If you have a problem with that skip straight to the regular queues. But I don't think you do really.

[Ythan]

Literally whining about me telling a player they broke two site rules in one post. Lol.

[Ythan]

I'm not sheeping Dann anymore.

[Ythan]

How serious were you about that sheep anyways?

I like Dann I was fine with doing as he asked at that point. Not very, to answer your question, but as I said his posts were at least sound while most of the game at that point was noise.

[Ythan]

The point is, he might not have broken the "playing against wincon" rule, but he can't legally defend himself against the accusation.

If you break a rule in a game the game thread is never the place to litigate it, you should be communicating with your game mod about it if at all.

[Ythan]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

[Ythan]

Assuming I'm wrong about this, it'll look absolutely bad that I said that.

I don't think it's so much about whether you're right or wrong generally. Saying stuff like that and then being right can imply that you have information ie are scum, depending on the circumstances, for example.

[Ythan]

And I like bananas better but I'm not about to argue with Science.

[Ythan]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

[Ythan]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

It'll be better if you talk to a wall instead

Isn't there a Britney Spears song about you?

Is she wrong?

[Ythan]

You think it was a necessary comment?

Seems like it still is yes.

[Ythan]

On reflection you were obviously asking about her comment and not mine? Necessary, maybe not. Warranted? I do think so.

[Ythan]

Except I did answer clearly and immediately and you're just whining still to fill time.

[Ythan]

Except I did answer clearly and immediately and you're just whining still to fill time.

Would you link me to the post where you did so?

If I am being a total idiot here, and I've just missed a post where you answered, I will owe you a full apology.

You've addressed it repeatedly you just continue to go off regardless because well ya know.

[Ythan]

I explained immediately the vote switch. Your tunneling over your refusal to accept the explanation is just what's a nice word for it

[Ythan]

Disingenuous isn't mean let's go with that.

[Ythan]

townies do outrageously pro-scum things all the time

scum try to look town

can you tell me more about James's tentatively town status

I made a snap vote to him because ridiculous scummy behavior but then switched back when I came to believe he might be genuine albeit foolish.

[Ythan]

That was meant to quote the preceding post you get it.

[Ythan]

fingerguns

[Ythan]

Val, do you accept that james took an objectively anti-town line by claiming vt? If so, then it's that simple anti-town = pro-scum. If not, then that's where we don't see eye to eye.

Wait, your joining date tells me you

should know

that anti-town behaviour is not always scum behaviour

UNVOTE: StrangeMatter

VOTE: Leaven

Join date aside he did qualify for this game as a newbie.

That being said I think it would be lovely if you elaborated on that vote a little more because I can see where you're coming from but also I can see where else you might be coming from if you know what I mean. I expect there's a at least a little more that could be said.

[Ythan]

Is all this in response to just 262 or stuff he said later down the page I guess I'd like to know.

[Ythan]

Is all this in response to just 262 or stuff he said later down the page I guess I'd like to know.

Their

urge

to policy elimination someone who is playing anti-town which they think pro-scum material (then why even bother to mention

policy elimination

term) despite of being an old player doesn’t seem right to me.
Btw, do you disagree with that? If so, then why?

I don't disagree with what you're saying i just still want you to explain what all evidence went into you saying it.

[Ythan]

Ok...
So people, let's move the game forward... you'll be in my town block if vote

Leaven

No I'd like for you to answer that question if you don't mind.

[Ythan]

^^ Would you consider her to be a bit scummy if her answer to that is "lol, that's obvious" then refused to answer it when you told her it wasn't?

So now you're trying to convince me I'm scum? Performative. Disingenuous. Scum.

[Ythan]

Fedora

[Ythan]

for doing exactly the same thing

You know we can all read the game right?

[Ythan]

You're all good I don't think anything useful is gonna come out of the angle I was trying to get at at this point.

@whatever posts you were talking to me.

[Ythan]

You need to find agenda behind the behaviour, scum will never act scummy.

If you can believe this then ask yourself what scummy means.

[Ythan]

You need to find agenda behind the behaviour, scum will never act scummy.

If you can believe this then ask yourself what scummy means.

I don’t understand what you're trying to say here... Scums usually don't appear as scummy, are they? It’s better to treat as town rather then scum, right?

If you think scum never do scummy things then it's different things that are scummy, but something is scummy or this game would be random for real and not just when we talk shit.

[Ythan]

You're all good I don't think anything useful is gonna come out of the angle I was trying to get at at this point.

This sounds like you want to prove that I'm scum but I'm not giving you a solid reason to do so

The object of this game is to figure out who the scum are.

[Ythan]

I'm pretty sure I understand you but since we're in a newbie and I'm an se I want to clarify that scum tells do exist. We can debate what they are all day, sure.

[Ythan]

You need to find agenda behind the behaviour, scum will never act scummy.

If you can believe this then ask yourself what scummy means.

I don’t understand what you're trying to say here... Scums usually don't appear as scummy, are they? It’s better to treat as town rather then scum, right?

If you think scum never do scummy things then it's different things that are scummy, but something is scummy or this game would be random for real and not just when we talk shit.

What scums do is scummy by decimation, but they don't want to

appear

to be scummy, that's what I meant.

Yeah I got u we're on the same page.

[Ythan]

I like scummy by decimation if I could just figure out a way to use it in a sentence. Like if you kill a tenth of the town as a vig claim you're scummy by decimation.

[Ythan]

I like scummy by decimation if I could just figure out a way to use it in a sentence. Like if you kill a tenth of the town as a vig claim you're scummy by decimation.

Yeah I understand the numbers don't make sense in this scenario.

[Ythan]

Hi Gamma E.

[Ythan]

That's the best post of the game yes.

[Ythan]

I'm pretty sure the whole point of newbie games and SEs is to try to keep players from making it into other games still believing stuff like that.

[Ythan]

@396

[Ythan]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

Keep reading Gamma.

[Ythan]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

Keep reading Gamma.

I disagree about whether asking the mod to give a warning via PM is called for
when the matter is public, it impacts public opinion on the players, and as a mod you want moderator actions and duties to have as little undue effect on the game as possible
Also, in my ruleset I'm pretty sure I have something stating that dragging private moderator messages into the thread is an offense, because I feel like most times people do that it messes up the game somehow

In a newbie game I'd rather try to just point out the infraction if possible. Neither issue has come up again thus far afaicr.

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

[Ythan]

because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one

Did not once smear a single person in relation to this topic.

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

see the post above this
one VT dying is not enough to lose the game for town

Make sure you know what counts as playing against your win condition to head off any future awkwardness.

[Ythan]

because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one

Did not once smear a single person in relation to this topic.

maybe not on purpose, but by posting that suggestion in public you essentially did so

I'm pretty sure the whole point of newbie games and SEs is to try to keep players from making it into other games still believing stuff like that.

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

If you want to read the game you can.

Meta is for nerds.

[Ythan]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

James is doing a bunch of dumb shit in a newbie game I'm an se in so yeah there's a bit of that. Is it all I'm posting? No it isn't.

[Ythan]

That does make more sense.

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

If you want to read the game you can.

Meta is for nerds.

Not telling you to analyse anything, I also hate meta and think it isn't in the spirit of the game but you can see what happened or just read it?

Note that I'm not voting you and haven't been for quite some time. My diatribes toward you about your play have nothing to do with the bearing of your antics on your alignment.

[Ythan]

Last night (while being in bed), I realized,

Ythan

has only done theory stuff so far. Yes, they are a SE but also a player but instead of playing they're actually teaching everyone so far. If they really take the SE stuff seriously, they should concentrate more about practical stuff (meaning play the game by implementing the theory they have been teaching about), not only focus on correcting the theory talk of others.
That's been said, I think they are scum who are using their SE position as a shield.

UNVOTE: Leaven

VOTE: Ythan

I had a conversation with literally you literally yesterday about not theory.

snip

Do you want me to grab more or do you want to explain that vote again.

[Ythan]

UNVOTE: Ythan Not comfortable with this at 3. Will be back this evening.

Not at E-1 but at E-2 feels a bit weird to unvote at.

Nope? We have 2 scums remember?

First of all the person putting it onto 4 would have to justify it. Then you hammer the hammerer D2 as a matter or policy.

this is my post but better

Do you read my response?

They are correct.

[Ythan]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

James is doing a bunch of dumb shit in a newbie game I'm an se in so yeah there's a bit of that. Is it all I'm posting? No it isn't.

actually yes

I may not have 400+ d1 of this game like certain players but nah ur full of shit sorry.

[Ythan]

Oh lol that was the total. Still full of shit sry.

[Ythan]

Btw, if

Leaven

flips red,

StrangeMatter

most likely their partner I think.

Well, you’d be wrong about only this, if he does flip red.

Also, do you have Town reads?

Dan

,

James

,

Val

.

Is it just me or does it feel remarkably like Salsa is trying to pocket Dann? Her reads mirror his a bit

too

much imo.

This game is full of clowns.

[Ythan]

Sooner rather than later I hope.

[Ythan]

Maybe you should just tell them what you did mean.

[Ythan]

Policy to me should not take priority over your actual reads though.

Leaven has indicated he isn’t really doing that though?

True, but I also noted he said that he'd vote someone else if. The only problem is the last couple posts to me don't come off as someone trying to scum hunt so far, which I still find a little odd, although this might just be their playstyle.

This is hilarious!

What is with this string of filler.

[Ythan]

Mad paranoid?

[Ythan]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

[Ythan]

Last night (while being in bed), I realized,

Ythan

has only done theory stuff so far. Yes, they are a SE but also a player but instead of playing they're actually teaching everyone so far. If they really take the SE stuff seriously, they should concentrate more about practical stuff (meaning play the game by implementing the theory they have been teaching about), not only focus on correcting the theory talk of others.
That's been said, I think they are scum who are using their SE position as a shield.

UNVOTE: Leaven

VOTE: Ythan

I had a conversation with literally you literally yesterday about not theory.

snip

Do you want me to grab more or do you want to explain that vote again.

And from that conversation I gain nothing. You took all the info from me and then shut your mouth and most of the time in the game you theory-talked.

That is very different from what you said in the thread of yours that I quoted isn't it.

[Ythan]

Psst he's talking about you @503

[Ythan]

Is there a nice way to describe a post like that.

[Ythan]

You have 97 posts clown.

[Ythan]

Maybe you should just tell them what you did mean.

I did! And you were there in that conversation

Show me.

[Ythan]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

You think miseliminate me will help you on D2??

Post something other than clown bullshit please thank you.

[Ythan]

You have 97 posts clown.

Hello SE, isn’t there is a rule

not to attack the player but attack their paly style

??

Who doesn't like clowns.

[Ythan]

Obviously don't do that regardless but it's not like we haven't been over this.

[Ythan]

You hammered yourself. So yeah you are a clown awesome.

[Ythan]

There are corner cases where it's okay to self hammer as scum maybe especially the goon but if you're looking for advice in a newbie game I'd say just don't.

[Ythan]

Hi James thoughts?

[Ythan]

Also, Gamma and Ythan please explain why you voted Salsa again?

Like you can't still read the same posts we could all see yesterday.

[Ythan]

My bad on not making time for this. I will try to get back into it tonight or more likely tomorrow.

[Ythan]

Time flies sigh

[Ythan]

It's been a busy weekend+ but should let up now? Finally??

[Ythan]

I mean it's 2am now so don't celebrate yet.

[Ythan]

Okay I'm gonna like look at isos.

[Ythan]

Ah fuck the deadline's closer than I thought. And I'm off Friday and Saturday too. Well I guess there's no avoiding it

[Ythan]

Gina thirteen minutes plus a cigarette break.

[Ythan]

Gimme

[Ythan]

Alright here goes

[Ythan]

Summarizing. Dont mean to put words in anyones mouth so please correct me if mistaken or if your sentiment has changed.

Ythan:
Val (or Clsr)
Gamma (self preservation)
*Strange (or Gamma)
**Dannflor (? if refusing to vote GE now)

Gamma:
Leaven
Clsr (or Val per rankings)
Ythan (self preservation)
*Strange (or Ythan)
**Dannflor (changed mind)

Assume gamma and ythan would vote to save each other. Dann was on gamma, not sure if would vote ythan to save gamma now though. Regardless, this reads that gamma/val needs both strange AND dannflor or ythan/clsr/leaven needs only one of strange OR dann.

This is the weirdest post up to that point today

[Ythan]

For the record. How bad of a look is it for me (as town) when I end up actually talking my fellow town out of limming the top scum by sentiment at morning if that person ends up flipping red?

???

[Ythan]

I don't get the SM wagon. I do get the Leaven one. But I'm gonna take a closer look.

[Ythan]

I don't understand Dann's upward trend on Leaven could you explain perhaps?

[Ythan]

Also, I wasn’t here to even be able to stop them from hammering themselves, which just makes me angry to think about.

oh hello I missed this line

You must be very angry that you couldn't have been here to read Salsabil's mind and someone stop her from self-hammering before she did so?

this feels like a line that comes from scum trying to look good not someone genuinely frustrated or thinking about the situation

I agree with this though.

[Ythan]

ythan if you stop being a cow you get one (1) towncred and a 10% chance of being invited to towncore
I could see scum!james disrupting the thread as much as possible with ambiguous, anti-town actions when actual conversation is starting to take place but again, please scumread james for diff reasons
ythan pointing this out and then macking on val for multiple posts also feels like a deliberate disruption

This is so pure I'm just not seeing it

[Ythan]

Oh never mind I'm looking through clsr's iso for something compelling about SM. That's a townie clsr post though. Still haven't found what I'm looking for though though.

[Ythan]

Also, I wasn’t here to even be able to stop them from hammering themselves, which just makes me angry to think about.

i didn't catch this originally, turns out there was one person who has the same mentality i did

*arbitrary townread*

not sure about the logic on the ythan vote though. it feels too hasty especially since you asked them an important question before this, so it looks more like policy than anything

I have no regrets if he flips green. I’d rather eliminate this now than let him stay, though.

This right here is short and sweet.

[Ythan]

There's a couple compelling points behind the SM wagon but Leaven was like constantly jumping out while I was reading the mixed thread so I'm gonna take a look at that one in iso now to see if it's just noise or louder scum. Well in a minute I'm gonna take another smoke break because I hate mafia~

[Ythan]

(Actually I'm gonna read SM first but I'm still taking that break first)

[Ythan]

My avatar backs up my story.

My avatar quacks up my story.

Fucking lol

[Ythan]

Outside of this, I don't have much to go on. So while this is my current best idea, it is the first day and take that with a grain of salt. Given you agree this was "objectively poor for town", then unless you can point to activity that is more objectively bad for town, my vote lands here.

Let's assume james is vt (entirely possible), then by claiming vt, he saying him as vt surviving another day is more valuable to town than a town PR lasting another day? If he is truly vt and sacrificing town win equity for self preservation, which seems to be his stated reason, that would (1) be against site rules and (2) be a behavior all town have a duty to self regulate against. Otherwsie, are we telling scum they can freeing engage in town-harming behavior without consequence?

I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise, but given that "in principal that claiming vt as early as this is objectively poor play as town", the burden, to me, seems to rest on justifying a vote elsewhere.

This and his next post in iso and maybe others around it really seem like he knows it's going to flip green. Like just vote the scummy wackjob d1 don't write paragraph on paragraph justifying why you're doing it even if it might be town.

[Ythan]

Well. Salsa's self-vote was disappointing. Is there ever a good reason to hammer oneself as town? James was an interesting NK - if town wins, he'll be the hero.

I do agree we need a very good reason to move off of GM or Ythan though. I actually would like to fully explore GE, before moving forward with Ythan. This is not a real defense of Ythan (outside of that too scummy to be scum vibe), but rather simply that GE did more of the rounding up of the wagon while trying to maintain the appearance of town. Ythan, imo, just rubbed many the wrong way and I read both sides of that vote as more emotional (see Salsa getting fed up and self-hammering in the heat of the moment) compared to GE's case which was more deliberately executed. Also, I worry that given the day, GE would be able to sell me a bridge.

VOTE: GammaEmerald

I've been trying to think through the implications of presenting this case, because as much as I caveat, I can't get away from this reading as a Ythan defense and tbh who would want to defend Ythan here. It's such an easily and defensible vote.

Am I too scummy to be scum or is Gamma scummier, pick one. Also talking about doing Gamma first, then moving onto me.

[Ythan]

Summarizing. Dont mean to put words in anyones mouth so please correct me if mistaken or if your sentiment has changed.

Ythan:
Val (or Clsr)
Gamma (self preservation)
*Strange (or Gamma)
**Dannflor (? if refusing to vote GE now)

Gamma:
Leaven
Clsr (or Val per rankings)
Ythan (self preservation)
*Strange (or Ythan)
**Dannflor (changed mind)

Assume gamma and ythan would vote to save each other. Dann was on gamma, not sure if would vote ythan to save gamma now though. Regardless, this reads that gamma/val needs both strange AND dannflor or ythan/clsr/leaven needs only one of strange OR dann.

Not skipping ahead but I feel like this is where it starts to divert into seemingly pointless speculation.

[Ythan]

Sorry to confuse. Yes, just tallying the counts. Before Dann pulled his vote, it looked like 5 out of 7 had gamma in top 2. With 7 left and 2 scum remaining, 5 is as much of a consensus as you can get. I'll listen to other cases, but a collective first impression hitting 5 for 5 is very compelling to me from a purely statistical perspective. This town is already working uphill against two self votes, including a self hammer. I obviously can't be sure, but it just seems likeliest and talking myself out of it would just be fancy play syndrome. We haven't heard much from Dann or ythan, though. Regardless, when presented gamma/val vs clsr/ythan, I feel safer aligning with the latter given my read of things.

Like this just feels like a bizarre post to make and then there's a lot of it.

[Ythan]

VOTE: Leaven

That's -1

SM wagon seems fine except that Leaven seems pointedly worse and now I kinda wanna look at Dann and Cows since it's already almost 4. There's a vote though.

[Ythan]

Nah that's dependent on one of them having an ulterior motive to divert from Leaven and if that's the case might as well just do Leaven first anyway that's good enough for now.

[Ythan]

I know it's late but y'all sure did disappear when I started posting.

[Ythan]

They talk about being flipped, after Gamma. Is there more to it then that? If that's it I get what you're saying but it's not a lot.

[Ythan]

I'm a little fried it's after four. I'll definitely be back by to check this out tomorrow if you have more to say on it.

[Ythan]

What a difference ten hours makes! Gonna hammer but wanna make one other post real quick. If you have anything to do it's impending.

[Ythan]

unvote immediately and kill gamma

I'm assuming no counter claim but that's mostly because this is just confirming my read on Leaven

Don't like this speed. Neither I nor Cows had responded, and you're clearly aware of the possibility of a counter and are just ignoring it.

[Ythan]

Hammer has already been reached Ythan.

Then what's this.

Wait I didn't read Ythan's post and thought Dann was putting Gamma at E-1 but that's my bad.

[Ythan]

Don't get nervous I'm all over this hammer but I feel like it could still be worthwhile to give Cows a chance to post. Or at least let me wake up properly and realize I'm being silly. Regardless the hammer is hanging now like the sword of Damocles.

[Ythan]

Nice.

[Ythan]

it's gonna be SUPER cringe, me saying this but i sheeped ddann for this reason
strange/leaven had a PR between them because of how quickly they voted and with all of those extremely rapid votes there had to be a guilty hidden somewhere and i had to get that out of the way because ??? it eludes me even now

Do you think you could maybe rephrase this please??

[Ythan]

sorry for my hastiness before I was mostly just trying to squash any "well what if leaven is lying" paranoias without proper proof

Sure you weren't TMI'ing that you knew the Gamma guilty was legit, and there would be no CC?

I know you've been very quick to quickly spash that you think one of me (previously one of your highest townreads) and SM look good for gammas partner, but for myself, its actually your (dannflor) interactions with the slot that look the worst to me.

I wanted to get that out there now before the lock.

pretty sure you just scum claimed in this post

If you're seeing something can you tell us in case you can't later?

[Ythan]

Okay jswc though I'm not seeing it.

@Dann

[Ythan]

stop with this illusion that this setup is anything except C1. leaven's 100% dying tonight

the james nightkill makes absolutely zero sense if it's not C1. you can't PR read that guy

You got to that quickly for just showing up to this cop claim.

[Ythan]

WTF WTF
im here lemme get to pc
???

Got here fifteen minutes ago.

[Ythan]

stop with this illusion that this setup is anything except C1. leaven's 100% dying tonight

the james nightkill makes absolutely zero sense if it's not C1. you can't PR read that guy

You got to that quickly for just showing up to this cop claim.

weird post to make

why would you not get to this quickly

Seems like a scummy way to spend fifteen minutes of scramble time.

[Ythan]

Seems like a scummy way to spend fifteen minutes of scramble time.

i mean i could talk about pairs and shit but that 15 minutes of scramble time was spent with the impression that thread could close any minute so i went with the information that is almost guaranteed and repeated it again
?

How much of that was spent thinking about James's chances of being a PR?

[Ythan]

... why would you not just already know that based off of playing day one ythan

We didn't know anything about the setup until the claim. I think he put the pieces together quickly.

[Ythan]

like, 20 seconds? it was a post i made earlier that i remembered

Oh okay cool.

[Ythan]

Trapped in a nightmare universe where Dann keeps going down and Val keeps going up.

[Ythan]

Morning friends.

[Ythan]

Explain yourself.

[Ythan]

That's wrong. No claim.

[Ythan]

If there is a doctor and they claim then we'll eliminate among the remaining three and the doctor will be killed tonight leaving Leaven and two unconfirmed players.

[Ythan]

I'd rather have a chance to win in 1/3 with two conf and later 1/2 with one confirmed right now than just a 1/4 to get it right and a 1/2 to get this right.

If a doctor gets run up today they claim then just like Leaven did. Only scum is advantaged by claiming before that.

If there is a doctor and they claim then we'll eliminate among the remaining three and the doctor will be killed tonight leaving Leaven and two unconfirmed players.

Also, can you give me a good reason as to why not claiming is better and why I'm wrong?

For the first, what I said above and also what I said previously that you have not successfully refuted at all. For the second, because everything you're saying is foolishness or intentional deceit that offers nothing of benefit to the town.

[Ythan]

no I'll wait until tomorrow

if I die I die

Not forgetting this.

[Ythan]

If a doctor gets run up today they claim then just like Leaven did. Only scum is advantaged by claiming before that.

^This!!!^

Why claim before that?

[Ythan]

We have an advantage if the doctor survives tonight in that the scum will have to fake counter claim doctor, but you're trying to out the doctor today which would mean they can't possibly survive the night.

[Ythan]

You or Strange.

[Ythan]

Val's never really been scummy he was just annoying me earlier.

[Ythan]

We have an advantage if the doctor survives tonight in that the scum will have to fake counter claim doctor, but you're trying to out the doctor today which would mean they can't possibly survive the night.

And if the doctor doesn't survive, what then?

then we're in the same situation as we would be if the doctor claimed today?

Except that it's guaranteed if we out the doctor smh

[Ythan]

We have an advantage if the doctor survives tonight in that the scum will have to fake counter claim doctor, but you're trying to out the doctor today which would mean they can't possibly survive the night.

And if the doctor doesn't survive, what then?

then we're in the same situation as we would be if the doctor claimed today?

Except that it's guaranteed if we out the doctor smh

It occurred to me this morning that outing the doctor today is actually even worse because it means the confirmed town cop can be killed tonight.

[Ythan]

Wait no that's only if the doctor got limmed. Nvm I was in a hot shower.

[Ythan]

I'm too stoned to look at games when I think Dann is trying to subliminally buddy me by also talking about thinking about mafia in the shower.

Tbc I'm saying that's a dumb stoned thought not a serious one.

[Ythan]

vc

It was like sixty years ago chill

[Ythan]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

-1

[Ythan]

There's nothing wrong with putting someone at -1. I even announced it.

[Ythan]

If you are eliminated today and then Dann is killed tonight it'll be me and Leaven and Strange. Is that any different? Is someone townreading Strange? I don't get what your plan is supposed be accomplish and I don't want to eliminate you because I'm pretty sure it's just Strange.

[Ythan]

Hm.

[Ythan]

Ythan, Strangematter; what do you think about voting me today?

I believe I have already answered this and recently.

[Ythan]

I don't want to eliminate you because I'm pretty sure it's just Strange.

This is unchanged.

[Ythan]

You know if you're town and you don't get eliminated we win right? That's what being in this position says to me, but you're going in exactly the opposite direction. At least try to figure out who scum is, or something.

[Ythan]

I want Strange to post

Hasn't posted since ten minutes before Val's self vote.

[Ythan]

Anything I can respond to?

[Ythan]

even when you guys were competing wagons it seemed like you didn't really care about solving his slot, it was only when leaven became the leading wagon that you got more engaged

Well I mean I was basically gone but you can doubt that.

[Ythan]

Val is way townier than you. Just today you tried to out the cop for one.

[Ythan]

The doctor rather.

[Ythan]

You were suggesting that the doc claim for no intelligible reason so yeah it looks that way.

[Ythan]

If a doctor gets run up today they claim then just like Leaven did. Only scum is advantaged by claiming before that.

^This!!!^

Why claim before that?

We have an advantage if the doctor survives tonight in that the scum will have to fake counter claim doctor, but you're trying to out the doctor today which would mean they can't possibly survive the night.

[Ythan]

Literally yesterday we saw a PR get run up and then avoid elimination by claiming. Your attempt to out the doctor serves absolutely no purpose as town.

[Ythan]

Meanwhile what could be more valuable for you as scum than to find the doctor before endgame?

[Ythan]

And what I’m saying is that this would not be how scum goes about it in any reasonable way in the first place.

Too scummy to be scum?

[Ythan]

Remember, there’s ONLY one scum left. Why would I essentially put myself as scum in everyone’s head in the first place???

You’re looking at this only by how it benefits scum, and ignoring details that are important.

Your defense is that you're acting like scum. That's a shit defense and you're muddying the waters now.

[Ythan]

I don't think it's anywhere near out of line to call that a shit defense. All you're telling me is that you wouldn't behave this way because it's obviously too scummy.

[Ythan]

So I'm coming back to this, Ythan what will happen if I flip green then?

Coming back to this from when? Obviously if you flip green it's Val. What are you getting at?

[Ythan]

..........

I said it's you and I've been saying it's you. But if you flip town then by progress of elimination it is OBVIOUSLY VAL FROM MY PERSPECTIVE

[Ythan]

Process* in case everything obvious has to be made solici explicit

[Ythan]

Lol fuck

[Ythan]

I think you're scum you daft clown.

[Ythan]

I think you're scum you daft clown.

And that's fine that you think that, but that just needed to be pointed out to me.

It has been repeatedly. Why are you still yammering.

[Ythan]

I seriously don't see any purpose in the things you're saying to me at all.

[Ythan]

Sorry for being terse. Refer to my previous post and if that doesn't help imagine it's in all caps. Still sorry tough.

[Ythan]

I still feel like I should be telling you not to do this but if you're not somehow expecting to get out of this you're obviously town, and we are going to win.

[Ythan]

Finally. You think you’ll be right but you’re not.

Sounds like town. Val may be scum.

[Ythan]

if you're not somehow expecting to get out of this

This is exactly what you just did you goaded him into self voting and immediately hammered.

[Ythan]

Them* I apologize

[Ythan]

You realise the self-vote is the important part of making sure you don't get to ELO, right?

Without it, it's reads very much like you are trying to pick up towncred off the back of me doing my best to get out of the way of the ELO without actually following through on it.

I get more and more sure every time SM posts.

I don’t care if I you think I stole your “strategy”.

If you’re getting more sure I am scum, then go ahead. I don’t care about anyone’s TR, nobody WILL Val.

VOTE: Strangematter

VOTE: StrangeMatter

What happened to your plan Val?

[Ythan]

Dannflorr, Leaven, Ythan; one of you hammer me.

I know I've been outspoken against this plan. If I take a look will I find Dann and Leaven haven't endorsed it either?

[Ythan]

I think StrangeMatter is just messing with us

I actually love doing this personally but I don't think that's what you do in a heated exchange like that.

[Ythan]

I've been town reading you so if you are scum winning doesn't seem like a forgone conclusion.

[Ythan]

I think Leaven would vote me over you, if the game didn't end, particulary after hammering SM.

If I take a look I wonder if Dann feels the same way. Now that he's out you could kill Leaven instead.

[Ythan]

Go figure.

VOTE: Val89

[Ythan]

Yay it's almost over.

[Ythan]

Yay

[Ythan]

Good job Val I thought you were town until last page.

[Ythan]

Okay two pages now.