Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

btw butterchurn is almost certainly town IMO

So... anyone want to get in an argument over something minor that is probably a null tell, thus creating some content for everyone to discuss and react to? That's how things usually get started, right? Silence is good for scum.

This entire thing probably never comes from mafia.

I disagree. While reading what happened in this game before, this post (26) picked my attention. It's just a bizarre thing to say imo. Too little for a scumtell though.

Wake up!

GRAB A BRUSH AND PUT A LITTLE MAKE-UP

Oh God I hate that song. I want to vote you just for bringing it up! But it's definitely past RVS already.

My read on ahhlo was that they were a troll (and potentially ban dodging) and unlikely to provide anything useful, but didn't want to say that while they were around as it'd come across as mean-spirited and would provide no positive effect on the game. Merciful luck that we don't have to worry about that now, I suppose.

Was it? I really felt sorry for them reading their posts actually, they seemed utterly clueless.

Also, just want to say that this post might have been made prematurely as if my predecessor had come back in the period between the host seeking a replacement and before I volunteered to substitute them, they would have successfully returned to this game.

UNVOTE: - in case any of my predecessor's votes are still being counted as mine.

[Greeting]

Also, just want to say that this post might have been made prematurely as if my predecessor had come back in the period between the host seeking a replacement and before I volunteered to substitute them, they would have successfully returned to this game.

I believe they were banned from the site for two weeks, hence the replacement.

Oh dear, what a mess. Let me check that out!

[Greeting]

I automatically take out the popcorn when I hear of someone breaking the rules. But this time, I take that laugh emote back - this wasn't funny. It looks like a pretty dark and depressing story to be fair.

Ahhlo

, if you're reading this - please go see a psychiatrist or a psychologist, your best shot would be both in that particular order. As a person who suffered and continues to fight mental health issues, game forums, including forums for mafia games, are not really an appropriate place to seek help, attention or validation. I hope that 2022 will be a better year for you, it really can get better.

[Greeting]

I think the whole silence is good for scum thing kinda comes from town, and it did spark catboi to do something more in that stage in regards to me.

I was actually speaking more about this part:

So... anyone want to get in an argument over something minor that is probably a null tell, thus creating some content for everyone to discuss and react to?

That's telling of an experienced player who seems acquainted well enough with the way the game mechanics usually work, so much that they already got bored of it. I'm just wondering why did they feel the need to let everyone in the world know that. This could easily be an overinterpretation, but it's staying in the back of my mind.

[Greeting]

To answer your question, I immediately side-eye SEs hard lurking in a game they should be taking the lead on.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I think this is a good direction for now. This game has been going on for a few real life days now and they did very little, if anything. It is far more bizarre if an SE does that rather than a relatively unknown newbie player.

Not Known 15

, please post your reads, if you have any.

VOTE: Not Known 15

This is E-2.

[Greeting]

Well, it is not.
I posted my reads.
[...]
The reads at that point were:
Town:Me
Null:Everyone else.
That's pretty clear.
Now, let me tell you what's suspicious:
Notscience's read confidence.
I won't repeat everything what Cape and catboi said, but basically they are right.
These reads are fake. At this point, there is no way that notscience should have reads like that. Only two nullreads, and

3 high confidence

reads?
BS.
VOTE: notscience

So you think that

notscience

is suspicious because they're very confident in their beliefs. I've read all of their posts. The tone of their posts doesn't give me much to suspect to be fair. I also agree with some of their takes, such as the aforementioned post 79.

I must admit that I also find it suspicious when someone gets so adamant about getting a hyperaccurate read early on in Day 1 in the game. Like, what even is this (the original post had a wide palette of colours which seemed to indicate how suspicious they look to the author).

Void
Butter
catboi
zefiend
GB
ahllo
NK15
Cape

Taken from less than 78 posts (some came from the host and the player themselves)?

Both equalise one another to be fair. I'm not willing to vote out

notscience

yet.

What do you think of

catboi

and

Cape90

?

[Greeting]

I reread and you had mentioned both players actually and kind of answered my last question. Sorry.

Let me rephrase it: how suspicious do you think both of them are in relation to other players?

[Greeting]

One thing...
Why do my initial "everything seems not AI so far" and nottys reads with utmost confidence equalize each other, Greeting? What's the story behind that?

I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. What I meant was that, when it comes to my read on

notscience

, there are some things I would consider more scummy and things that I would consider more towny. And they equalise each other, which gives me a null read.

[Greeting]

Although

Not Known 15

has ultimately showed up and answered some questions, I am still not convinced that their content isn't manufactured at the very last minute. I don't have very much enthusiasm and many hopes for this slot, but I am otherwise okay with them being flipped.

[Greeting]

That vote puts NK15 at E-1, correct?

Yes, that would be E-1.

[Greeting]

I honestly don’t understand your argument. I re-read what I had written and nothing is „logically inconsistent” here. If I didn’t think there was nothing to vote you out for, I wouldn’t be doing it.

Nor do I care about this really, the overall sound of it is desperation. Your previous vote also sounded quite desperate to me. And now that interest in the

notscience

wagon faded, you’re clinging to anything you can find. That’s sad, huh?

It would be, however, advisable to announce intent to hammer before it is done.

[Greeting]

The above post was meant to be a response to @

NK 15

.

[Greeting]

Nor do I care about this really, the overall sound of it is desperation. Your previous vote also sounded quite desperate to me. And now that interest in the notscience wagon faded, you’re clinging to anything you can find. That’s sad, huh?

Is no one else seeing the perspective slip?

No, enlighten us.

[Greeting]

I know two other players in this game, that is

catboi

and

Cape90

. However, both are acting differently to what they did in the respective games I knew them from (

catboi

from Newbie 2081 and Newbie 2082;

Cape90

from Newbie 2084). Therefore I cannot get a good read of either. So far this hasn't changed.

Cape90

is definitely more bold and uh... lively, while

catboi

feels less invested, even if he is more active than most players in this game. Perhaps I just don't really feel any of the directions which

catboi

seems to be on in this game.

Speculating on the possible reasons for this further would put me too far into meta territory and I wouldn't like that. It's too early for me to call town or scum for either having the knowledge of their past play that I have.

So I took a different route.

When I joined this game, there were three major candidates at E-3:

butterchurn

,

Not Known 15

and

notscience

. I read, or maybe more accurately skimmed the three cases. The

butterchurn

wagon didn't appeal to me at all, so I removed it from my mind entirely early on, plus this player is the closest I have to an early soft townread in this game.

The case on

Not Known 15

appealed to me more than the other. Especially since

notscience

seemed to have been much better in explaining their motives for their vote choice, it was logical and to me felt like a direction I could go towards. So I joined it.

Then,

Not Known 15

suddenly woke up and started posting. The more they post, the more they show that they don't care who goes down today - as long as it's someone else. In 156, they basically repeated the old case on

notscience

, based around their overconfidence and cockiness. While I can agree that this is odd in this phase of the game, to me it is more indicative of a playing style rather than being scum. Which is why I didn't buy into that case originally, as this seemed to me the sole reason for them having a wagon on them in the first place. Nonetheless, their reasons for joining the wagon felt artificial and, in the context of the situation, like a desperate attempt to save themselves by joining the most promising competing wagon.

But then the situation changed. Suddenly,

notscience

isn't being voted out anymore. And

Not Known 15

finds themselves on E-1.

Not Known 15

needs a backup plan, now! So here comes

Greeting

, let's make a case on them based on supposed new facts coming from their last two post and make it sound urgent!

That's the story told from my perspective.

[Greeting]

I honestly don’t understand your argument. I re-read what I had written and nothing is „logically inconsistent” here. If I didn’t think there was nothing to vote you out for, I wouldn’t be doing it.

I see it, although it looks more like just weird phrasing to me. You said you don't have much hopes or enthusiasm for their slot (implying either that they are scum or that they aren't useful town, I guess? I realize now you may have meant something else by this, in which case please clarify), and then said "but otherwise" you would be okay with flipping them. One would expect that the clause prior to "but otherwise" would be some counterargument or hesitation to them being flipped. The sentence would make more sense if you used a word like "so" instead of "but otherwise", since the first half implies the second, at least how it reads to me.

That said, I don't entirely see it as coming from scum perspective, as I don't think it makes a lot of sense there either. It just feels like a grammar/phrasing mistake -- or an unclear first clause which is being misinterpreted. There was another one in the last sentence of what I quoted -- the triple negative is one too many. You're saying "if i thought there was something to vote you out for, I wouldn't be doing it", which is clearly not what you meant, but also to my eyes not really a scum-indicating grammar mistake.

Yeah, I do use weird phrasing sometimes. English isn't my first language.

What I meant by that post was:

"There is stuff pointing towards

NK 15

being scum, but (at the time) I'm feeling kinda sceptical about it. And that is because in my experience it's uncommon to hit a scum, plus they had rather few posts at the time."

Perhaps I should have added that second sentence, because otherwise this could have been read as "I don't think that

NK 15

is scum, but yet I'm okay with them being flipped", which is not what I meant. But still, my other posts before then gave a few hints as to why that was my choice.

Their last actions, however, made me feel a lot more confident that this is a good direction. When, at the time, their backing of the

notscience

wagon could have been easily brushed off, them desperately attempting to make a case on me while being on fire makes perfect sense from a scum point of view.

[Greeting]

EBWOP

*uncommon to hit a scum Day 1

[Greeting]

Now that I think of it,

Not Known 15

's argument on me was in really bad faith. Instead of asking me to clarify, they decided to grab the opportunity and blow it out of proportion. If that isn't scum indicative then I don't know what is.

Now I'm perfectly happy with

Not Known 15

going down.

[Greeting]

With your explanation, though... I actually am a little suspicious of it, since based on how you explained what you meant, it reads instead as potentially pre-emptively distancing yourself from the result that you're voting for. And following that narrative, once that draws attention and potentially some suspicion, your play would likely be to just go all in on NK15 and give up on your original expression of doubt, which is what you've done. I wasn't particularly suspicious before, and still am not enough to vote or anything (especially since this case depends on NK15 being town, which I'm currently extremely skeptical of), but I do at least see a potential scum-aligned reasoning behind this pattern of posts and that concerns me.

What is missing here is that

NK 15

isn't 100% on their out yet - they're still at E-1. Why would I be distancing myself from a result of something that may not even come? I sincerely hope that there is someone out there who will hammer them though.

[Greeting]

In case it was unclear, by distancing I didn't mean distancing from a scum partner (I realize that's how it's often used, perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant how you were expressing doubt on a wagon that you had already joined. If NK15 did get eliminated and flipped town, I would read that behavior as scum. And of course you would do it before his elimination is guaranteed, because doing it later and drawing attention to it is much more obvious and suspicious. From 2084 you didn't seem like the kind of player to hedge your bets or fence sit very much as town. If you were suspicious of someone you tended to have a bit of confirmation bias and twist more reasons into suspicion, and see anything through that lens (mostly noticeable when you made a case on marcistar). In this case it felt like the opposite.

But again, I'm still most suspicious of NK15, and if he is eliminated and ends up being scum, this point would be irrelevant, and I would probably townread you instead. So all told, I'm not that suspicious now, but it did stand out to me as a pattern of scumplay if certain conditions end up being true.

I think I correctly understood your use of distancing - and actually I also thought of it that way. It could be more versatile - as distancing from something

or

someone one wishes to not be associated with. So a scum could distance themselves from their partner in order to not get caught as associated and a scum could distance themselves from a wagon which lead to voting out a townie, or a scum, as part of distancing busses their partner. In this scenario, I would be scum who knows for certain that

NK 15

is not their scum partner and wants to look cleaner in spite of being part of a wagon that lead to their elimination, as a townie. However, my point from 244 actually still stands. Plus

NK 15

's last actions made them look much dirtier in my eyes, which is why my attitude also changed.

And the truth is, however, much simpler and is that the doubt is based off my past experiences of Days 1 in other games. The only game in which town actually managed to vote out a scum in Day 1 was Newbie 2081, and it was all pretty much luck (I hammered! ). I've also played 20+ games on other sites and it never happened.

As for Newbie 2084, ugh, this game. Had I not been Town Cop in that game, I would have pursued marcistar (not bolded, because I only bold the names of players of the game I'm currently in) until either of us dropped. Turned out she just has a very specific gamestyle. Perhaps my mistake was that I didn't look into her game history. Still, this was no longer an issue in the game past Day 1.

I am on the sidelines of this game, still, as I substituted in, instead of being here from the very start. I thought 6 pages wouldn't be much to catch up with, but I guess it will still take some time for me to feel less like an outsider. There are entire arguments, such as the one between

catboi

(jointly with

Cape90

?) and

notscience

that I'm kinda lost on. I think I know more or less what they're about, but I haven't read into them very deeply.

[Greeting]

Ya, I feel like I am approaching day 1 here more similarly to day 3 there

Oh, I kind of remember that. Although I got yeeted out Day Two, partly per my own request, and since then I didn't read into Newbie 2084 so much.

I rooted for you hard from the Dead Thread.

[Greeting]

Nothing for me to reply to or elaborate on. If we eliminate

NK 15

and they flip scum then I’ll be looking into

ɀefiend

Day 2.

[Greeting]

Nothing for me to reply to or elaborate on. If we eliminate

NK 15

and they flip scum then I’ll be looking into

ɀefiend

Day 2.

VOTE: Greeting
Not town.
I'd expect town to look into that today. Looks like a scum lim plan, not like a town on the hunt.

This makes zero sense, unless you're admitting that you're scum. Also, haven't you voted for me already?

[Greeting]

I can repeat my votes and manipulate their size too.

VOTE: Not Known 15

VOTE: Not Known 15

VOTE: Not Known 15

Unfortunately, this

doesn't

multiply them or amplify their power.

[Greeting]

Nothing for me to reply to or elaborate on. If we eliminate

NK 15

and they flip scum then I’ll be looking into

ɀefiend

Day 2.

VOTE: Greeting
Not town.
I'd expect town to look into that today. Looks like a scum lim plan, not like a town on the hunt.

This makes zero sense, unless you're admitting that you're scum. Also, haven't you voted for me already?

"That" means "a potential case on zefiend"

Of course there's a potential case on

ɀefiend

here (if you're scum), they backed you without any explanation.

[Greeting]

I can repeat my votes and manipulate their size too.

VOTE: Not Known 15

VOTE: Not Known 15

VOTE: Not Known 15

Unfortunately, this

doesn't

multiply them or amplify their power.

No. But it means I am

not

changing it.

Neither am I changing mine.

[Greeting]

Because to me it doesn't read as trying to find something that you actually find suspicious, it reads as trying to find something that you hope others will latch onto. I think town in this situation would be more concerned about expressing their thoughts fully and finding who they think is scum, but it feels like you're more concerned about trying to start a counter wagon on anyone you can.

This is currently also my major problem with

NK 15

's slot, and also why I got convinced of the wagon so fast when their counter vote came. I think this behavior is indicative of scum.

When it comes to

Dunnstral

's slot, I didn't like the posts of their predecessor, it seemed to me they really lacked the will to play this game in spite of being rather active in other parts of the forum. And I start wondering why. But obviously, this is meta territory.

Dunnstral

has been in the game for a short while as a replacement. Nothing they said warrants any pressure or suspicion on them yet.

[Greeting]

I also want to point out that

V0ID

actually

is

lurking, I've seen them online a couple of times, but they rarely ever post. Keeping your RVS vote at this point of the game is just either

really

lazy or not an RVS vote anymore (RVS stands for "random voting stage"). If it's no longer an RVS vote then I see no explanation for it.

Lurking always brings my attention.

(from Newbie 2082)

I know this is activity-based meta, but I see frogsfrogs online most of the time I'm around and they have almost three times less posts than I do. They aren't posting in any other games. What's up with that? In 221, Val89 strongly townread frogs, without really saying why.

Maybe I'm being paranoid about this, but I think it should be pointed out.

...and frogsfrogs was scum that game.

But lurking is

not

enough for a firm scumread.

[Greeting]

As for the notknown 15 vote, greeting makes a pretty good case for it. There is something I am a bit confused about if someone could clarify for me. If I were to vote notknown15, that is final right then and there correct?
"When the hammer vote is cast, all players, including the eliminated may talk freely until the final vote count and eliminated player's card-flip have been posted." What is the final vote count mean exactly? Does that mean until the deadline?

If you decide to vote for

NK 15

right now, your vote will be so-called hammer. Which means that this was the last vote needed for the formation of a majority required to eliminate

NK 15

- and this is irreversible. Which is why we announce if it’s E-2 (or the player is two votes away from being hammered) or E-1 (one vote away from being hammered). Make sure that you announce „intent to hammer”, preferably bolding it (you can do this in any way you want though) so that

NK 15

has time to respond. This is done to prevent us from eliminating someone with a town power role.

[Greeting]

@

NK 15

Firstly, I am not going to hold

Dunnstral

accountable for their predecessor’s play, just like I shouldn’t be held accountable for

ahhlo

. Although it’s still the same slot and I am not going to ignore this fact, but since

Dunnstral

have made only three posts, it is simply too early to tell. It would be ridiculous for me to criticise them for jumping on your wagon given that I’m on it as well and I also arrived here quite fast since my entry into this game.

Secondly, I think I already found a prime scum candidate and that is where my focus lies at the moment. If I’m to be honest, if you weren’t my choice, I’d much rather pressure

ɀefiend

than

Dunnstral

(at least for now!) for their bizarre behavior overall.

On another note, I dislike

catboi

’s flaky „meh” attitude (308) towards your wagon. At this point, enough has been said for most people to have an opinion, for or against it. The way

catboi

phrased it, they could easily defend their actions Day 2 both in case you flip town or scum.

[Greeting]

So that's why

ɀefiend

backed

NK 15

without question or even an explanation. I've never been in a setup with Town Masons before.

UNVOTE: Not Known 15

[Greeting]

NK15 has fakeclaimed. Do not listen to the above posts or react, just hammer and move on to tomorrow. He’s trying to fish out PRs.

100% agreed.

VOTE: Not Known 15

[Greeting]

Ain't that great. Thanks,

NK 15

for throwing the game with your "gambit".

[Greeting]

But looks like someone knew this was happening beforehand.

Wouldn't even be the first time town has gamethrown by fakeclaiming mason

The outcome of tonight shows that scums definitely know how to rolehunt, which points my attention towards the remaining more experienced players. I haven't seen half the enthusiasm from

catboi

this game I've seen in the other games, plus his earlier actions made me concerned about their motives.

VOTE: catboi

[Greeting]

Yeah what NK15 was doing was obviously town LMAO. The self vote in 343, the legacy stuff in 344 & 347, the obvious backtracking in 346 of 345.

Look I understand what what NK15 did was bad and they should know better, but you all should learn to read between the lines and not just ooga booga it. Maybe that is me speaking on behalf of my personal experience with chat mafia where I see a lot of questionable fake claiming from town.

I strongly disagree. What was obvious was that voting out

Not Known 15

who fakeclaimed and whose claim was rebuffed was the only right way to go. I believe

ɀefiend

's interpretation of

NK 15

's actions in 342 is correct - this was a gambit, albeit coming from a Vanilla Townie rather than a scum doing advanced pocketing.

[Greeting]

I think I know how the scums found out that

notscience

was a PR. And it is a direct consequence of

Not Known 15

's actions.

Notscience

was

the only player

who did not withdraw their vote on

Not Known 15

after their claim in 320, presumably knowing for sure that the claim was fake due to their role. I did notice this before on Day 1, but then didn't pay very much attention to it. Now it makes perfect sense.

And I don't think a complete newbie would be clever enough to spot and correctly interpret such a detail, hence why at the moment I'm convinced that there is someone experienced who is leading the scum team.

[Greeting]

I am not a mason.

This is my first game back on the site in a long time. What I learned from other games is that too many people throw their vote around willy nilly. I am taking a new approach in play style overall, to try to use my vote more effectively.

It is why I ask so many questions and "stall" before committing. My Greeting vote was intentionally left naked. It was meant as a wrench in the spoke of the NK15 wagon, to see how people react.

I was not expecting this gambit from NK15. I have no experience with this sort of thing, personally. But my gut tells me that NK15 is scum trying to pocket me as hoping that I town-read them, to form some sort of "town-bloc."

I think NK15 was happy to see my vote on Greeting, as hopefully derailing the current wagon. I choose to interpret the fake-claim as pre-emptive while at E-1. And I pretty much agree with everything Butter's said about the slot.

No problem voting here now. VOTE: NK 15

This feels a bit overexplain-y.

I think it was explanatory enough. Throwing a naked vote in the majority of circumstances is questionable, but they did come around and answer.

[Greeting]

Somewhat suspicious of Greeting already from what I mentioned in 243 and 245. I would think that scum currently would be pretty excited due to the cop kill and generally being at an advantage at the moment, so I was thinking that at least one of them would be posting early and would want to control the narrative of things from the start of the day. Cape and greeting's posting early today both fit that bill, to some extent. Also still never was particularly satisfied by cape's answer to my line of questioning in 175, especially now that we know notscience was town. Would not be surprised for town catboi to be somewhat discouraged, feeling relatively neutral there.

Scum could also aim to lay low here. Would like to hear more from dunnstral especially, since his first post he's given a few opinions but with little to back them up.

Looks like I failed spectacularly to control the narrative then, because my

catboi

vote was ignored by almost everyone, and even

catboi

himself paid very little attention to it.

[Greeting]

But looks like someone knew this was happening beforehand.

Wouldn't even be the first time town has gamethrown by fakeclaiming mason

The outcome of tonight shows that scums definitely know how to rolehunt, which points my attention towards the remaining more experienced players. I haven't seen half the enthusiasm from

catboi

this game I've seen in the other games, plus his earlier actions made me concerned about their motives.

VOTE: catboi

I took 356 as a response to 355, and not as revealing inside knowledge. And 355 was prompted by NK15's two posts right before it.

...you could be right. I read it in a different way.

Then again, I have so much higher expectations of

catboi

's play that his apathetic behavior really doesn't sit right with me. Maybe not to the point that I'd want to eliminate him for it, but I'd like to pressure him to do more.

[Greeting]

I think saying "at least one mafia must be experienced" is a hollow conclusion at best and just WIFOM at worst.

Well, I think it's a pretty fair conclusion given the facts in the game and I'm going to stick with it. Maybe you're the experienced scum I'm looking for?

[Greeting]

Obviously I can say that the argument about myself being "performative" is false, but I don't buy it as a description of

Cape90

either.

As for my reads, at this moment I think

butterchurn

and

Cape90

are town and can be trusted. The rest is all varying degrees of mixed feelings.

I am still pretty sure that there is an experienced MafiaScum player leading the scum team.

The potential candidates I see are:

catboi

,

ɀefiend

and

Dunnstral

.

I got a feeling that there is at least one scum hiding amongst them.

Butterchurn

is classified as a newbie, but obviously has previous mafia experience. I don't include them in my suspicions as their tone is independent and investigative, the only thing seeming to worry me is their lack of conviction. I don't think there was anything scummy about the

NK 15

wagon at all - the reasons to vote that player were all pretty reasonable and their fake claim was the cherry on top. I was reassured by

butterchurn

's vote on

Not Known 15

Day 1, they later withdrew it in understandable circumstances (and so have I), but

NK 15

was ultimately eliminated without them.

Cape90

had nothing to do with

Not Known 15

's elim altogether, but has shown strength of conviction in his pursuits into other slots and I like it.

[Greeting]

Results do not change intent. Second time you've used this argument or a similar one (244) when I would expect you to know it doesn't hold water.

Okay. The way I see this argument is: "well, things didn't turn out with

Greeting

the way I thought they would, but I think

Greeting

thought they would turn out that way". And then you try to force that interpretation on me in spite of me denying it and the evidence suggesting otherwise. May I ask: a) what are you trying to achieve with this; b) why is your interpretation of my actions more valid than my explanation of them?

I mean, it's okay if you think my actions are scummy, you have a right to think so. But your explanation of it is contradicted by facts in the game. If you continue to use that kind of reasoning then I can't really defend myself when put up with an argument like this. The conversation will always just go: "I think

Greeting

wanted to do x with post nr y" and me saying "no, I wanted z" when actually "b" happened.

[Greeting]

On my reread I didn't see conviction at all, I saw aggressively pushing back against notscience, then occasional comments that seemed out of character with someone who was so suspicious of notscience and seeming to waver between appearing extremely convinced and not considering him scum at all, and then dropping the case completely. He switched to zefiend for not much reason, and followed that for a couple posts and then hasn't continued on that track since. And that's pretty much all he's done, besides call a few people town for relatively minor things. Can you elaborate on where you're seeing this strength of conviction?

I remember

Cape90

from Newbie 2084 where his playstyle, at least early in the game was strongly defensive and rather reserved - with few votes going around. That changed when Day 3 came and when it was fairly obvious MegAzumarill is scum who framed me. Then,

Cape90

correctly went on the offensive. When I noticed this behavior in this game during Day 1, he pointed out this change in 247 and to be fair, upon comparison, I see it, with him aggressively going after

notscience

. Someone might say that's scummy given the fact that the player in question was town, but I see strength of conviction and willingness to go with their gut as a sign of a townie. Indeed, his vote on

ɀefiend

was a bit out of the blue, but the way I see it, it was an aggressive response to rather aggressive play (215). This is my opinion of them and the way I choose to interpret them though, perceptions may differ.

[Greeting]

Hey Dunn, how well do you remember xeno 2 day two?

Refreshing my memory, there were two things that stuck in my mind from day 2, both from mafia

Do you remember what gave Cabd the push to claim his “guilty” that day?

I figured it out, not sure I agree with the implication

Well it’s one of two options.

I’ll see what zefiend has to say.

@

Dunnstral

what was this conversation all about in the context of

Not Mafia 15

's elimination and who is xeno?

[Greeting]

Okay. The way I see this argument is: "well, things didn't turn out with Greeting the way I thought they would, but I think Greeting thought they would turn out that way". And then you try to force that interpretation on me in spite of me denying it and the evidence suggesting otherwise. May I ask: a) what are you trying to achieve with this; b) why is your interpretation of my actions more valid than my explanation of them?

I mean, it's okay if you think my actions are scummy, you have a right to think so. But your explanation of it is contradicted by facts in the game. If you continue to use that kind of reasoning then I can't really defend myself when put up with an argument like this. The conversation will always just go: "I think Greeting wanted to do x with post nr y" and me saying "no, I wanted z" when actually "b" happened.

My point is that your post to me reads as you attempting to do x. And I find that potentially suspicious. It's not about trying to guess your thought process, it's just about looking at the post you made. What happens after literally is irrelevant to that point, and nowhere did I say that I expected any specific result to happen. What I said was that I expected scum to attempt to set the narrative. That's what your post (and potentially cape's post) reads as to me, and so I mentioned it. My explanation of it is absolutely not contradicted by facts in the game, because all I cared about was the attempt, not what happened after. If you wanted to, you are welcome to defend yourself by giving your own explanation of things, although I don't particularly expect you to or need you to since it's not a huge point and there's not a lot to say. But either way, you didn't, you just pointed to "well, it didn't work, so I must not have been trying to do that!" which surely you can understand is faulty logic.

If you insist on putting things this way, then there really is no conversation to be held about it between us here. The only thing I can say is "no, I didn't mean that" and leave it at there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What do you think of:

catboi

,

Dunnstral

and

ɀefiend

, three players I mentioned earlier?

[Greeting]

I’m trying to make sense of this game by associations, because honestly nothing else seems to be working. The colors don't mean a thing, they're just to make this more readable since I like to bold players' names.

Please correct me if I misinterpreted your stances.

Spoiler: Summary of suspicions

Cape90:

Townreads -

Greeting

(?)

Suspicions -

Dunnstral

,

ɀefiend

,

catboi

Greeting:

Townreads -

butterchurn

,

Cape90

Suspicions -

catboi

,

ɀefiend

,

Dunnstral

V0ID:

Townreads -

butterchurn

Suspicions -

Greeting

(?),

Dunnstral

(?)

butterchurn:

Townreads -

Dunnstral

,

ɀefiend

(?),

catboi

Suspicions -

Cape90

,

Greeting

ɀefiend:

Townreads -

butterchurn

(?)

Suspicions -

catboi

,

Cape90

,

Greeting

Dunnstral:

Townreads -

catboi

Suspicions -

Cape90

,

V0ID

catboi:

Townreads -

Greeting

,

Cape90

,

butterchurn

Suspicions -

Dunnstral

,

ɀefiend

,

V0ID

And here are my conclusions from this:

It seems that the majority of players townread

butterchurn

(4), and personally I also am in that majority, so I'm leaving that slot be.

It also seems that a different majority of players scumread me and

Cape90

(4), and since I'm not scum and I don't really think

Cape90

is either, I am willing to think that either of these two majorities has some scum on it. There's also another player who seem to be scumread by a majority (4) and that is

Dunnstral

. The second most suspected player is

catboi

(3), and I am amongst these players.

Cape90

indicated that

catboi

is the weakest of his scum reads (403). With my vote being admittedly more of a press, which doesn't seem to resonate with others, it seems that the better course of action would be to leave this for now.

My feeling of

ɀefiend

is that it's just them against everyone. If they're scum then this is a very effective tactic which makes it very hard to see any possible associations. That being said, I don't oppose them being voted out today.

But I think that I can get on this slot. What kept me from voting

Dunnstral

before was their interactions with

notscience

who flipped town. But overall, their actions in the game are NAI at the very best, and their predecessor,

GeorgeBailey

was behaving oddly for a very active and established player. Personally, I could see the scum team being

Dunnstral

/

V0ID

who are evidently distancing from one another by scumreading, but not acting upon it.

It's not very much, but I think it's a decent shot.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Greeting]

I think I know how the scums found out that

notscience

was a PR. And it is a direct consequence of

Not Known 15

's actions.

Notscience

was

the only player

who did not withdraw their vote on

Not Known 15

after their claim in 320, presumably knowing for sure that the claim was fake due to their role. I did notice this before on Day 1, but then didn't pay very much attention to it. Now it makes perfect sense.

And I don't think a complete newbie would be clever enough to spot and correctly interpret such a detail, hence why at the moment I'm convinced that there is someone experienced who is leading the scum team.

Dunnstral

and

notscience

knew each other before this game so this slot also makes sense here.

[Greeting]

@

butterchurn

That’s

your

interpretation of what I’m doing, so from my perspective your question has a thesis in it which is false. Might I add that this is has already happened in our last exchange. I already said what I’m doing and why I’m doing it and if you keep on interpreting this in a scum way then it’s on you and there’s nothing for me to discuss here.

[Greeting]

The point about me packing self-awareness is, sorry to say this, utterly ridiculous. I am town, I don’t need to worry about acting town, because everything I do is from a town point of view and is aimed at achieving my winning goal. Moreover, in order to do this, I must cooperate with others, because I do not posess a superpower to eliminate any single player on my own.

[Greeting]

If you're town, your most helpful response would be to point me to a time in another game where you sorted things out in a similar way, or if it is the first time, explain more about why you decided to do so in this instance.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I feel like me discussing your projections further is a waste of my time and an unnecessary source of frustration for me. If you think that I’m scum then just vote me and I’ll try to work with others.

[Greeting]

On the other hand, 391 and 415 are complete waffly nonsense. Read those posts and ask yourself: does VOID have a single solid opinion about anyone in this game? I really cannot continue to turn a blind eye to this.

VOTE: VOID

I quite agree. I am overall also quite willing to vote out

V0ID

. They only seemingly take stances in posts like these:

I get pretty mixed vibes from greeting and dunnstral.

(content elaborating on this)

Sorta suspicious of cape still. And also get some mixed vibes from catboi and zefiend but it is more like a struggling to get a read on them sort of thing.

I understand what butterchurn is saying, it does seem like a scum thing to put that list together in that fashion. Not to say town should not have their thoughts organized but I get what butterchurn is getting at in the post above. But then again, if greeting did have a notepad file open with that as scum and was keeping track of people in that way for his scum motives would he really have posted it for all of us? Once again, I see what butterchurn is saying and I am not ruling out that perspective. But,I could easily see that just as simply information gathered he is presenting to us to help both us and himself as town. I guess it is kinda strange though.

This is all pretty soft and flaky. They've mentioned quite a lot suspicions but haven't acted on them.

Honestly, their content seems to... kinda go with the flow of the game and replicate whatever is happening at this very moment. I think it's sus. Plus, they are online far more often than they post and that is something I have seen newbie scum do before. It's understandable and makes sense from a mafia point of view, being scum involves having to re-read every single word you put out.

[Greeting]

Obviously I can say that the argument about myself being "performative" is false, but I don't buy it as a description of

Cape90

either.

As for my reads, at this moment I think

butterchurn

and

Cape90

are town and can be trusted. The rest is all varying degrees of mixed feelings.

I am still pretty sure that there is an experienced MafiaScum player leading the scum team.

The potential candidates I see are:

catboi

,

ɀefiend

and

Dunnstral

.

I got a feeling that there is at least one scum hiding amongst them.

Butterchurn

is classified as a newbie, but obviously has previous mafia experience. I don't include them in my suspicions as their tone is independent and investigative, the only thing seeming to worry me is their lack of conviction. I don't think there was anything scummy about the

NK 15

wagon at all - the reasons to vote that player were all pretty reasonable and their fake claim was the cherry on top. I was reassured by

butterchurn

's vote on

Not Known 15

Day 1, they later withdrew it in understandable circumstances (and so have I), but

NK 15

was ultimately eliminated without them.

Cape90

had nothing to do with

Not Known 15

's elim altogether, but has shown strength of conviction in his pursuits into other slots and I like it.

You keep pushing that scum has to be experienced to have made that kill. In my opinion, I would put cape90 in that category because they have experience on another site, as well as yourself since you pointed it out right at the start of the day. That ends up being most everyone anyway.

I disagree.

I think having experience specific to this site, when playing a MafiaScum game counts more here than experience from playing on other forums.

Mafia varies by forum significantly. The vast majority of games I've played in and hosted were all pretty much a fun distraction from the general theme of those forums (which wasn't specifically playing the game). I've played with people who were in there just to have fun and things like mechanics coming from mafia theory were either non-existent or rarely brought up and didn't hold more merit than other argument that the players felt was right at the moment. In the mafia games I played in the past, players who rolled mafia wouldn't really do that much of power role hunting, but would rather focus on eliminating what they deemed to be the biggest threat to them at the moment. Role-hunting attempts were made, but it was something that would be considered more advanced play.

Here, the majority of players tend to use jargon and pay a lot of attention to game mechanics. Elements of game mechanics are even included in guidelines published in each Newbie thread (such as "don't fake claim a power role when you're town"). Although I did start to pay significantly more attention to mafia theory since I started playing here, I still had a rather fierce argument about it in the dead thread of my last newbie game, where I was strongly criticised for my actions in that game with excerpts from mafia theory being brought up as a counterargument. I'm visibly not part of the mainstream of this forum, for instance, I don't use a lot of mafia jargon and admittedly still often look it up. In spite of all this, these games that I played were still the same sort of game we're playing right now - a game of mafia, but with a far more laid-back approach.

So yeah, mafia game =/= mafia game. And that is why I think there is an SE behind this. If it's not and it was

Cape90

, for instance, then it means that I'm strongly underestimating him.

On a side note, this heavy reliance on mafia theory is what I think was the source of my clash with

butterchurn

in this game, other townies in the aforementioned dead thread of Newbie 2084 and notably also Val89 in Newbie 2082. While I do take the general theory into consideration, I am not going to let it dictate my actions and I consider it to be my freedom to reach my winning goal in a way I see fit.

[Greeting]

Also greeting, you are looking far too much into the me being online vs my posting as a scum marker.

[...]

Is my playstyle THAT strongly reading scum to you, and greeting? Like I said in a previous post, "Like, I think I understand the principles behind the mistakes and why they are mistakes and why it could be seen as scummy but as for the actual content of my posts I don't see them as scummy when I try to view it from an objective outside perspective."

It seemed like a lot of people in day 1 started to read me as town after some initial scum vibes from most, I'd like to know what you think about me at the present time, and catboi's and greeting's votes on me.

My vote is on

Dunnstral

right now, not you.

My major issues with your play, other than the constant lurking are: parroting and lack of conviction. It is easy to say that "x is suspicious and I'll be looking into them" to get towncred for generating content in line with the game. But the content from you does not advance the game in any way. You haven't questioned anyone or even seriously voted anyone (I'm not counting your RVS vote as serious), which in my eyes looks insincere. Scums generally worry about anything that could put them in a bad light and a vote leading to a miselim is something that draws suspicion, so a possible solution here is to lay low and avoid taking definite stances. Your posts haven't contributed to solving the game and can all be easily manufactured.

[Greeting]

I read the above wall of text and truth is, there is absolutely nothing for me to add here. It is not possible for me to defend myself if someone insists on knowing my intent better than I do, even though in my opinion the facts are against it. So I’m not going to spend time and effort on this.

[Greeting]

@

the post

I think the general theme of this text has already been answered by myself, but I'll requote with the bolded part being an explanation. And if you disagree then this is just simply an irreconcilable difference, and I'm not planning on playing to appease anyone.

I disagree.

I think having experience specific to this site, when playing a MafiaScum game counts more here than experience from playing on other forums.

Mafia varies by forum significantly. The vast majority of games I've played in and hosted were all pretty much a fun distraction from the general theme of those forums (which wasn't specifically playing the game). I've played with people who were in there just to have fun and things like mechanics coming from mafia theory were either non-existent or rarely brought up and didn't hold more merit than other argument that the players felt was right at the moment. In the mafia games I played in the past, players who rolled mafia wouldn't really do that much of power role hunting, but would rather focus on eliminating what they deemed to be the biggest threat to them at the moment. Role-hunting attempts were made, but it was something that would be considered more advanced play.

Here, the majority of players tend to use jargon and pay a lot of attention to game mechanics. Elements of game mechanics are even included in guidelines published in each Newbie thread (such as "don't fake claim a power role when you're town").

Although I did start to pay significantly more attention to mafia theory since I started playing here, I still had a rather fierce argument about it in the dead thread of my last newbie game, where I was strongly criticised for my actions in that game with excerpts from mafia theory being brought up as a counterargument. I'm visibly not part of the mainstream of this forum, for instance, I don't use a lot of mafia jargon and admittedly still often look it up.

In spite of all this, these games that I played were still the same sort of game we're playing right now - a game of mafia, but with a far more laid-back approach.

So yeah, mafia game =/= mafia game. And that is why I think there is an SE behind this. If it's not and it was

Cape90

, for instance, then it means that I'm strongly underestimating him.

On a side note, this heavy reliance on mafia theory is what I think was the source of my clash with butterchurn in this game, other townies in the aforementioned dead thread of Newbie 2084 and notably also Val89 in Newbie 2082. While I do take the general theory into consideration, I am not going to let it dictate my actions and I consider it to be my freedom to reach my winning goal in a way I see fit.

It's a fair conclusion but it's hollow. Literally anyone in this game can make that argument and go after anyone else in this game, so the argument is moot. If scum is equally likely as town to make an argument that can be valid, then the argument is worthless for scumhunting. Do you disagree with this sentiment?

Yes, I strongly disagree actually. This is such a simplistic take. If I agreed with it, I wouldn't have made such a point in the first place.

So let's recap. You give Cape a pass as town because his

current "strongest" push

on someone (me) shows "conviction," even though Cape acknowledges that his scum-lean on me "is not really a telling piece of information."

Please tell me if I have that right or wrong. And then tell me if that should pass as reasoning for town-reading someone who is scum-read by some degree to over half the players in the game.

No, that is incorrect. I already explained why I'm town reading

Cape90

. It hasn't been clumped in a single post, but can be seen scattered throughout many, especially my later ones.

On butterchurn, and others.

Besides nope-ing out of an argument that you lost with them, let's look at your more "positive" interactions.

You called butter the town's top town-read, but you also told him to just vote you and you will work with others elsewhere. Does that sound like someone who is trying to play the game based on associations?

You admitted that catboi is one of your scum-leans, but as soon as catboi calls out VOID, you immediately piggyback on the idea and say you're also fine limming VOID today.

So a player with 4 scum-reads on them (Cape) gets a pass because you trust them as town, and you like their suspicions on Dunn and myself.

But a player with 3 scum-reads on them (catboi), who you scum-read, and voted right out the gate, and commented multiple times how your push on them failing to get any pressure was a failure --

ALSO

gets a pass and suddenly you agree with this person about VOID?

Does that sound like someone who is trying to play the game based on associations? Or does that sound like someone who is opportunistically chasing whatever wagon they can?

I don't believe I lost an argument with

butterchurn

. I just felt, and still feel like that conversation had nowhere else to go. Like I said before, I'm not going to cater to the taste of other players with my gameplay. To tell the truth, I don't mind getting scumread for it and even voted out for it. If I have to take one for the team, I'll take it. Sometimes a townie's death can be beneficial to the game, and sometimes that townie is me. Plus people who voted me out might out themselves as scum for town the following Day.

Associations gave me harder data as to what are players stances in the game. If I chose to look for scum in that way then I can't just cherrypick data and post whatever I like. I posted what I considered to be the most relevant to me and my conclusions from it. If you have different conclusions then you're welcome to pour in your thoughts.

The other questions seem rhetorical or not meant for me. In case they are meant for me, as in the previous post you claimed that this would be something for me to respond, asking me to look at myself by the prism of what others may or may not perceive me is, quite simply, stupid, because I don't really need to convince myself that I'm town.

I am quite fine eliminating

V0ID

today, and I believe that I had expressed suspicion of that earlier - before

catboi

cast his vote, so the thesis that I'm piggybacking

catboi

is not factual.

It is also untrue that I'm being opportunistic with every wagon there is - the entirety of my actions Day 1 contradict that.

What I must, however, admit is that I didn't look into your past history and simply judged you were an experienced player due to your join date and, to be fair, your posts didn't sound like those coming from a complete newbie. I'll look into you more closely, but yes, you are right in pointing out that it is logically inconsistent for me to put you in with others in that pool.

That looks like an error of judgement due to an overly simplistic approach on my part and thank you for pointing it out.

[Greeting]

Player List (9)
Cape90 hunterr
Greeting ahhlo
V0ID
butterchurn
ɀefiend*
notscience FancyPants (SE)
Dunnstral GeorgeBailey (SE)
Not Known 15* (SE)
catboi (SE)

I take the red and bolded part back. Something here doesn't add up.

Why is

ɀefiend

considered a Newbie if they played in all these games?

Newbie Game Player Rankings

There are two basic "types" of players in a Newbie Game:

New -

this player has finished no more than five games of Mafia on mafiascum.net.

Even if they may have played elsewhere, they are still considered to be a New player here. A player is no longer allowed to /in as a New player if they have finished five Newbie games from scratch.

Semi-Experienced (SE) - this player has finished playing in four games on MafiaScum, at least one of which was not a Newbie game.
A finished game is a game in which you have been eliminated, night killed, or the game ends normally.
A Completed game is a game that has come to an end with a win, loss, or tie. If the player has "died" and the game is still being played by others, it does not count towards SE status. Remember: If you can't add the game to your win/loss record, then it doesn't count yet!

ɀefiend

has finished more than five games of Mafia, and amongst those games was just one Newbie game. Which means that according to this article they are Semi-Experienced. Yet they successfully enrolled into this game as a Newbie.

/in newbie

Looks like my instinct, although without deep search, was correct after all.

@

fferylt, is the Newbie queue player list verified as to whether each player occupies an appropriate slot of either Newbie or SE?

[Greeting]

So not only is

ɀefiend

being dishonest at worst or misinformed about the rules at best, but also they felt that this is an important enough point to counterattack me. I was right all along and this whole chunk of a discussion is a red flag for

ɀefiend

on top of it.

It looks like a listmod error. It's not really a big deal or relevant to the game whatsoever.

If it's brought up as an argument in the game then it is relevant to the game.

[Greeting]

Point being that I think Greeting would stand by his own way of doing things and his own logic,

even if faulty

, regardless of alignment, because that's just who he is.

This (bolded and underlined) is precisely why I cut that discussion short. If the reasoning goes "town does x and scum does y, so if you do y that inherently means you're scum" and I question the assumption as to why town does x and scum does y and that is refuted because game theory, then there just is no way forward. If others refuse to broaden their horizons beyond pure game theory then there is no possible way that I could ever reach an agreement with that person on that matter. I'd rather just back away and try somewhere else.

[Greeting]

@fferylt, is the Newbie queue player list verified as to whether each player occupies an appropriate slot of either Newbie or SE?

The original player lists are verified by the Newbie Listmod. Subsequent replacements are verified by the Game Mods. Errors occasionally happen in both parts, though.

Thanks for explaining. One could think of this as a genuine error, but it becomes relevant once is brought up as an argument. I will not remove

ɀefiend

out of my suspicions for this, specifically for the fact that they decided to use this as an argument to push their narrative when, confronted with the actual rulebook, is obviously incorrect.

[Greeting]

Point being that I think Greeting would stand by his own way of doing things and his own logic,

even if faulty

, regardless of alignment, because that's just who he is.

This (bolded and underlined) is precisely why I cut that discussion short. If the reasoning goes "town does x and scum does y, so if you do y that inherently means you're scum" and I question the assumption as to why town does x and scum does y and that is refuted because game theory, then there just is no way forward. If others refuse to broaden their horizons beyond pure game theory then there is no possible way that I could ever reach an agreement with that person on that matter. I'd rather just back away and try somewhere else.

My point is that the majority of the suspicion from both me and zefiend is not due to game theory disagreements, and you presenting it as if it is minimizes the case and makes it easy for you to dismiss it.

I'm not "presenting it as if it is", I genuinely believe that it's where this all stems from. Also, where did

ɀefiend

make such a point?

[Greeting]

Okay, a list, not necessarily exhaustive but these are things that are clearly unrelated to game theory:
- Your post 164 about notscience is phrased in an artificial-sounding way, and I talk about why it's suspicious more in detail in post 169
- Hedging your vote on NK15 in a strange way that seemed out of character with town-you, then going all-in on suspicion of NK15 when called out for that in a way that reads as a scummy response to pressure (as discussed in post 243 and 245)
- Your early posting in day 2 read to me like you are trying to set the narrative of the day, and your behavior in general surrounding that early posting feels like how I would expect scum to behave in this scenario, as discussed at length in various posts
- Setting up some candidates for suspicion, seeing how people feel about them, and then deciding your direction to go based on which one is a viable candidate based on others' suspicions. This is suspicious for reasons already discussed at length, but most specifically because I have never seen you take this approach as town previously, in fact you seem to have a very specific approach to scumhunting as town which has not shown up at all. This is why it's suspicious -- it does not look like your typical town behavior, and this new approach additionally is looking at things from a perspective that scum usually have.
- Your responses to suspicion tend to either miss the point, disregard them due to various reasons, or strawman them. A couple instances of this is understandable, but it's happened consistently.

Those are just the things that I've already talked about. Not sure what point you're asking about zefiend, but he made some additional points about inconsistencies in the way you are handling different people, and how your play does not align with your stated explanation of how you are attempting to scumhunt. Both of those are also suspicious for reasons unrelated to game theory.

That isn't related to game theory, fair enough.

When it comes to 461, what I meant was: where did

ɀefiend

make a point that I am supposedly only hiding behind a game theory disagreement?

[Greeting]

I didn't notice where

ɀefiend

would say or even imply what you said in 460. You did say that your suspicions of me align, but I read from that post that you claim both of you are thinking that this whole row with regard to game theory is used as a supposed distraction from other things. But perhaps this wasn't what you meant.

[Greeting]

Instead of arguing against my actual points, you are trying to weasel out by using semantics and rules.

And you're wrong, again.

From the

Newbie Game Queue

Rules:

TYPES OF PLAYERS AND THEIR REQUIREMENTS
There are two types of players in a Newbie Game; New Players and Semi-Experienced (SE) players.

For purposes of Player Game Limits:
A finished game is one in which you are out of the game (by elimination or night kill) but the game is still being played by others.
A completed game is a game in which a winning side has been declared and the game is over.

Taking on too many Newbie games at one time, getting overloaded, and replacing out of those games can get you banned from the Newbie Queue!

You may join the queue as a New Player if:
This is your first game on site.

You have not completed 5 Newbie games from the beginning (replacing in after Day 1 does not count towards this).

Keep in mind, new players who have not finished their first game may only play in one Newbie Game at a time.
Brand new players may either play a Newbie game from scratch or replace into an existing Newbie game for your first game.
Once you have finished your first Newbie game (by elimination, night kill, or the end of the game) you may sign up for a second Newbie game.
Once you have played five Newbie games from scratch you are no longer allowed to play Newbie games (except as a replacement) until you play a game outside The Road to Rome, thereby qualifying as an SE player. See the SE section below for more information.

You may join the queue as an SE if:
You have completed 4 games onsite, with at least one of them being outside of the Road to Rome.
Players qualified to be a SE may play in as many games as they think they can handle.
Replacing out of a game does not count as a completed game for the sake of SE status, outside of exceptional circumstances.

I have not completed 5 Newbie games on this site,

therefore I am eligible to play as a "new" player.

In actuality, I /inned for a Newbie game because I haven't played on this site in ~4 years and wanted to get my feet wet in another Newbie game.

Rather than argue against my points you have tried to bog down the thread with rules and semantics -- but worse is that you're just flat wrong.

1. You really didn't look at the page earlier where I took the time to elaborate with what I felt like were the highlights of your wall post. (448) And you're accusing me of lacking a response. Lazy actions at best, bad faith actions at worst.

2. In light of this, I can say that this is an obvious inconsistence in the rulebook - between the MafiaScum wiki and the Queue thread. But the fact that instead of pointing this out as an actual, honest counterargument, with me virtually providing you with evidence that suggests there exists a different version of the rules, you're just using this as an argument to fit your narrative.

VOTE: ɀefiend

[Greeting]

I don't see that with Greeting, who gives a very strong effort and clear scumhunting process every game and, for whatever reason, gets utterly nitpicked to death every time.

I agree with this. But Greeting has only been town in previous games. At some point he will roll mafia. Do you think, if he does in the future (or has this game), he will stop giving a strong effort and stop attempting to give an impression of scumhunting? I have a higher opinion of his abilities than that. My main suspicion of him is due to the fact that I feel like his approach to scumhunting and his interactions in general is not aligned with the approach that I've seen from him in previous games, and it feels like how scum!Greeting could attempt to imitate his usual style, while not quite hitting the mark. I understand you disagree on that point, but that's how I see it. I'm not trying to nitpick his arguments and his logic here, except for to see how he responds to that. I can see a world where this is just town Greeting, and some of his actions do read to me that way, but there's enough that just doesn't sit right for me to be willing to drop it completely.

You're right about the early posting today though, that certainly is not a scumtell on its own. That was more indicating that I would be keeping an eye on those two, because the way they started off the day drew my attention. I certainly was not expecting that alone to convince anyone of anything, I just wanted to share my thought process.

So what is your vote on me for, exactly?

[Greeting]

I see, thanks for explaining more. Does zefiend's assessment of his uneasy feeling that butterchurn might be scum despite thinking butterchurn is most likely town and playing a town game also in that same vein? As in, does that also ring some scum bells for you? If I had said "I am willing to work with butterchurn, he seems more and more town the more the game goes on and as I re-read his old posts" but without (now looking back on it, unnecessary) bolded line of the "there is the obvious possibility that butterchurn is scum playing a very convincing game." made you feel not as bad about me as scum?
Sure I am struggling to produce reads maybe...it is my first game after all. I think it is worth noting that you also have been pointed out for a lot of "meh" "shrug" posts by at least 2 users, I noted but forget exactly when and who. The first person you seem to be going hard at is me, for reasons I understand but I don't find all that convincing.

I would be surprised if you admitted to finding my own reasons for scumreading you convincing. That does not really allay my suspicion.

As for the question, obviously without the line I bolded it's a less suspicious sentence. But I'm not here in this game to give you writing tips on how to appear less suspect. Asking me how to appeal to me does not endear you to me and in fact makes me feel like your primary concern is escaping my suspicion.

You gave a vague pushback against me but seemed to have dropped it. If you had to name a single player you believe to be most likely to be mafia right now, who is it, and why?

I'm not trying to appeal to you or endear myself to you. I was just asking cause I wanted to understand more what exactly made that statement suspicious to you.

It's a toss up between you, dunnstral, greeting, cape. I am pretty comfortable in trusting (or reading as town) butterchurn and I think I'm starting to do the same to zefiend. I'd probably be willing to join the greeting wagon and put my vote there since my townreads and the people I am willing to play with have their votes there for now. I was always a little suspicious of greeting from an emotional vibe sort of abstract way...

and I did note that although greeting did not lead the wagon against notknown15 or hammered: he did seem very keen on voting him out.

Also he has suspicions on me which I still find sorta weird, which goes for you too. Like I said before I could see you saying these are scum markers/mistakes but I still feel like thinking my posts are

very

scummy is a bit out of left field.

What has the bolded and underlined sentence have to do with anything? What is its' relevance? Who "leads" a wagon?

[Greeting]

So what is your vote on me for, exactly?

I've reiterated that like 3 times now, including in that same post. There's a few other little things that I've talked about, but the biggest trend is that your posting, interactions, and approach do not feel like the same way you play the game as town, and at times feel manufactured or artificial. And when pushed on this, you strawmanned and generally felt like you were doing whatever you could to weasel your way out of being questioned.

I always look at both sides and both possibilities, that's how I play -- look at posts and patterns through different lenses, and try to determine which one fits best. I can see the possibility that you are town, but as of now the possibility that you are scum seems to fit much better to me.

I've read your posts, but one time you strongly accuse me and then you say stuff like "I'd totally see town Greeting doing this", which is contradictory and hence my question.

[Greeting]

I am getting annoyed now because I don't think Void could be any more blatantly scum if he tried and my words get absolutely no traction while the game is locked around a very, very pointless debate over Greeting

I'm town and I think it's rather unlikely the scums are hiding amongst you,

Cape90

and

Dunnstral

.

At the moment, I think the scums are amongst these players:

ɀefiend

,

V0ID

,

Dunnstral

. Truthfully, I am down to vote either one of them, but I won't vote for anyone who isn't in that pool.

With one exception in one paticular situation.

Today I've been looking at the timer and we still have 3 and a half days left. This isn't an urgency. But not only is the game stagnating, but it also isn't moving anywhere away from myself with

butterchurn

claiming that I'm trying to weasel out of questioning and suspicion. (Looks like I got my wish of not being an outsider after all. ) I will

not

be around for the end of timer of Day 2 as for me it falls on very early Monday morning.

If by Sunday evening this situation doesn't change and I am put at E-1 then I will hammer myself for the good of the game.

I am indicating this early in case someone accuses me later of throwing the game with this. Truthfully, I don't want to do it, because it will be another townie lost with two scums remaining. So that will be a last resort from me. But if I feel like I have to then I'll do it, because it will give town a better shot to hit someone Day 3 with me no longer around.

[Greeting]

I am getting annoyed now because I don't think Void could be any more blatantly scum if he tried and my words get absolutely no traction while the game is locked around a very, very pointless debate over Greeting

I'm town and I think it's rather unlikely the scums are hiding amongst you,

Cape90

and

Dunnstral

.

At the moment, I think the scums are amongst these players:

ɀefiend

,

V0ID

,

Dunnstral

. Truthfully, I am down to vote either one of them, but I won't vote for anyone who isn't in that pool.

With one exception in one paticular situation.

Today I've been looking at the timer and we still have 3 and a half days left. This isn't an urgency. But not only is the game stagnating, but it also isn't moving anywhere away from myself with

butterchurn

claiming that I'm trying to weasel out of questioning and suspicion. (Looks like I got my wish of not being an outsider after all. ) I will

not

be around for the end of timer of Day 2 as for me it falls on very early Monday morning.

If by Sunday evening this situation doesn't change and I am put at E-1 then I will hammer myself for the good of the game.

I am indicating this early in case someone accuses me later of throwing the game with this. Truthfully, I don't want to do it, because it will be another townie lost with two scums remaining. So that will be a last resort from me. But if I feel like I have to then I'll do it, because it will give town a better shot to hit someone Day 3 with me no longer around.

EBWOP - sorry, I meant

butterchurn

and not

Dunnstral

in the first sentence.

[Greeting]

I'm town and I think it's rather unlikely the scums are hiding amongst you, Cape90 and Dunnstral.

When did your view on me change?

It is in the scums interest to steer townies into eliminating other townies and looking as clean as they can while doing it.

The pressure on me is moderately strong and I'm a rather easy target to eliminate today. I feel like if you were scum, you could easily echo

butterchurn

and

ɀefiend

and jump in, putting me at E-1 and making my elimination very likely. Instead, you're coming to my defense, like you did back in Newbie 2082, a game in which both of us were town. That shows that you're really using your knowledge of my play in a town mindset. The scums are undoubetly in a favourable position right now with one PR dead and both of them alive. I think the temptation to easily get a townie out would be too great, especially since in my opinion,

butterchurn

is the main drive of my wagon and my miselimination could make him look bad (and I think he's town).

Of course, there could be a strategy where you, being scum, are pocketing me with hopes that I'll turn the attention of others away from you on Day 3. It is a well-known fact that it's much harder to turn against someone who is friendly towards you. But I think it's unlikely to be happening because I have expressed willingness of pressuring you earlier and my views can, and sometimes do change. Plus, my impact in the game isn't, in my opinion, very strong. So I think this strategy would be moderate risk, uncertain reward.

[Greeting]

So, no comment, really, and definitely not worth getting into a discussion of whether it's a good idea or not.

I actually agree with you and I'd rather not discuss this either. I posted this so that if it comes to it, my actions don't come as a shock to those players who don't know me from earlier games.

[Greeting]

If

ɀefiend

is scum, then the mafia team is in a somewhat awkward situation, where they're trying to hide behind

butterchurn

and try to get the majority of town behind my miselim. They have one more vote, but having both scums on a miselim wagon will look really bad for them when I flip town. It's really interesting that neither

Dunnstral

nor

V0ID

are willing to jump on it.

[Greeting]

I'm town and I think it's rather unlikely the scums are hiding amongst you, Cape90 and Dunnstral.

When did your view on me change?

It is in the scums interest to steer townies into eliminating other townies and looking as clean as they can while doing it.

The pressure on me is moderately strong and I'm a rather easy target to eliminate today. I feel like if you were scum, you could easily echo

butterchurn

and

ɀefiend

and jump in, putting me at E-1 and making my elimination very likely. Instead, you're coming to my defense, like you did back in Newbie 2082, a game in which both of us were town. That shows that you're really using your knowledge of my play in a town mindset. The scums are undoubetly in a favourable position right now with one PR dead and both of them alive. I think the temptation to easily get a townie out would be too great, especially since in my opinion,

butterchurn

is the main drive of my wagon and my miselimination could make him look bad (and I think he's town).

Of course, there could be a strategy where you, being scum, are pocketing me with hopes that I'll turn the attention of others away from you on Day 3. It is a well-known fact that it's much harder to turn against someone who is friendly towards you. But I think it's unlikely to be happening because I have expressed willingness of pressuring you earlier and my views can, and sometimes do change. Plus, my impact in the game isn't, in my opinion, very strong. So I think this strategy would be moderate risk, uncertain reward.

Theoretically, why couldn't I be defending you as scum to make myself look better if you do get voted out? As scum here I'd probably feel obligated to defend you because you'd be significantly more likely to call me out if I turned on you. Your assumptions for what scum would do are overly specific and I'm not sure it's all that convincing to me.

This is true, but is contradicted by your post 509, where you're pushing me to expand on something I didn't speak of at all. Making such a post isn't in the scum interest either in this scenario. If you were scum you'd be happy that a townie is town reading you before they get hammered and you'd look cleaner defending me.

[Greeting]

It's just something I made a mental note of that you seemed to be the most vocal and adamant part of the notknown elim. I could see that being a bold scum play. Also, in my very casual very limited experience with irl mafia I get a red flag when someone proclaims: I am willing to be voted out for the good of the town. which I think you have posted twice so far.

I've done it before as town in both Newbie 2082 and Newbie 2084.

[Greeting]

Greeting are you actually serious you did it in Newbie 2084 AS COP? (524). If you are going to do that, don't do it as cop...

...you

were

in that game, how did you fail to notice it? I didn't self-hammer

per se

, but I did self-vote.

[Greeting]

Greeting claims to be willing to vote out VOID today despite so heavily focusing on "one scum must be an SE"

Greeting lended support to catboi's effort on VOID out of nowhere. It is one of the things I called out in my wallpost.

Well, Mr. Logic - the fact that one has to be an SE does not imply that both have to be.

V0ID

is very clearly not an SE in my mind and therefore is outside the SE pool - I think they could be a partner who is being coached.

[Greeting]

Nothing's changed my take on Greeting:

• OMGUS
  
• Central argument of "Does this look like a person working through the game by 'association'?" is still ignored and in fact strengthened by continuing to cling to semantics and rules
  
• Threatening to self-hammer. Seen this song and dance too many times from scum.

What's actually interesting to me at the moment is Cape's 180-flip on me. Somebody (Dunn or Butter, maybe?) said it makes sense. But a 180-flip is a rare occurrence for town, in my opinion. Scum are more likely to flip opinions on a whim.

I think it could be Cape sensing pressure on Greeting and getting ready to distance. This whole VOID thing is beginning to look like a red herring cooked up by Greeting.

It's not an OMGUS,

butterchurn

has been pushing me way harder than you and yet I keep consistently townreading him. That's another lie from you, with you ignoring the main picture and only picking whatever suits your narrative.

The sentence with regard to pressure also makes zero sense.

Butterchurn

withdrew their vote, the pressure on me right now has actually lessened.

I refuse to believe that you're unable to understand the game and assess it correctly. You're clearly lying and that is another scumtell.

[Greeting]

V0ID is very clearly not an SE in my mind and therefore is outside the SE pool - I think they could be a partner who is being coached

This was part of the reason I was hesitant, actually, because he doesn't look like he's had much coaching at all, unless the coaching was "yeah just keep doing what you're doing, really lean into the whole unsure newbie thing". Which... not sure if that would be the best advice. Maybe they thought the more uncoached he looked, the more he would just look like newbie town? That gets into WIFOM. I'm going to take a look later at all the scumteam possibilities and see which seem more or less likely. I don't often do that, but I feel like it could be helpful in this situation.

Hm, actually now you got me thinking about this more deeply.

If I were scum in this situation, I'd definitely try to convince

V0ID

to finally settle on something and make a case on someone and try to make it as convincing as possible. I have a rather strong belief that unnecessary hesitation is a scum tell.

V0ID

is doing quite the opposite and his behavior is, admittedly, constant in that even though myself and notably also

catboi

have suspected him for it.

Now that I think of it, I haven't thought of and have no idea what advice would scum

ɀefiend

or

Dunnstral

give. And it's basically impossible to assess if whatever advice there could be is working until either he drops dead or wins the game.

[Greeting]

Greeting

(1): ɀefiend,

ɀefiend

(1): Greeting

Dunnstral

(1): Cape90

Cape90

(1): Dunnstral

V0ID

(1): catboi

Not Voting

(2): V0ID, butterchurn

V0ID

should vote

catboi

and we'd have pairs.

[Greeting]

Greeting claims to be willing to vote out VOID today despite so heavily focusing on "one scum must be an SE"

Greeting lended support to catboi's effort on VOID out of nowhere. It is one of the things I called out in my wallpost.

Well, Mr. Logic - the fact that one has to be an SE does not imply that both have to be.

V0ID

is very clearly not an SE in my mind and therefore is outside the SE pool - I think they could be a partner who is being coached.

Is this post the first time you're elaborating on this? Genuinely curious.

I believe I've already spoken of

V0ID

before that post.

It's not an OMGUS,

butterchurn

has been pushing me way harder than you and yet I keep consistently townreading him. That's another lie from you, with you ignoring the main picture and only picking whatever suits your narrative.

butter is too tepid to push you (no offense butter.)

I'm pushing you because I know you're scum and if you continue dominating the conversation then town has no hope.

You

know

I'm scum? That's a lie. There is only one possibility in which this could be true and that would be if we were scum together. And we both know that we're not.

[Greeting]

If I were scum in this situation, I'd definitely try to convince V0ID to finally settle on something and make a case on someone and try to make it as convincing as possible. I have a rather strong belief that unnecessary hesitation is a scum tell. V0ID is doing quite the opposite and his behavior is, admittedly, constant in that even though myself and notably also catboi have suspected him for it.

It does remind me a little of StrangeMatter in 2084, where reading along I read him pretty strongly as town by the end of the game because he was very hesitant and noncommittal even after being heavily called out for it, to the point where I thought there was no way scum would continue in that manner, and he must just be a struggling town. Then he ended up winning as mafia. So I've been fooled by that before.

When it comes to StrangeMatter, I've found them incredibly hard to read given their meta. I was very careful about them, because I scumread them for their play in Newbie 2082 and they turned out to be town. So yeah, that's someone who can easily imitate their indecisive and flaky playstyle as scum.

[Greeting]

zefiend/dunnstral - the strongest point against is dunn coming to zefiend's defense when I expressed some suspicion of him, by meta dunn is just less likely to openly defend a partner like that.

I can see this being a possibility, but it's not more likely than

V0ID

in any configuration with either of these two.

Void/Dunnstral - no reason this couldn't be the team.

I quite agree.

Dunnstral

has been the least active of all and his posts give very little hint as to associations with any other player. Him pushing

Cape90

makes sense from a scum point of view, given the fact that there hasn't been much suspicion or push on

Cape90

from anyone really, at least in Day 2. I'd say it's a way of finding a safe spot to stay in while the rest of us discuss possibilities and argue with one another.

Void/zefiend - 54 could easily, easily be a post made to a partner. I know people are too quick to theorize about "in-thread coaching", which rarely happens, but the post is critical of void but ultimately only pushes him to do/say more rather than saying he's scummy, and indeed there's never any followup on that and no further comments on void's alignment.

I think this configuration is also very likely.

Honestly, from my perspective, all three of these work together.

[Greeting]

Cape90/Greeting - greeting's read on cape is undercooked but going for the partner defense early would be bold and not typical of most newbies, can't strongly rule it out though.

Cape90/Greeting - greeting's read on cape is undercooked but going for the partner defense early would be bold and not typical of most newbies, can't strongly rule it out though.

Ah! The best for last. I actually am really scared this could be the scum team. Town would basically be fucked if the case. That's why I want to get Greeting today, so even if I die tonight scum can't continue dominating the narrative.

It's interesting you're giving Greeting the benefit of newbieness. Let's cut the semantics though, shall we? I'm in a Newbie game but I'm not a newb. Greeting's in a Newbie game and they may be relatively newer but I wouldn't call them a newb. If it wasn't revealed ahhlo or whoever is a troll I would have given them a newbie pass.

On VOID + me: I've had one other direct interaction with VOID and recently I commented on Greeting's behavior with respect to VOID. If the scum team is Greeting + Cape then VOID is a very, very, easy mislim for scum to push through right now. If the scumteam is Greeting + VOID then Greeting's (it's gotta be an SE guys!!!) makes more sense AND trying to pocket Cape makes more sense.

I am holding firm on Greeting.

I would only vote Cape if Greeting admitted they were wrong, showed me they're a townie, and pushed forward a case for a Cape+VOID team. So basically, not gonna happen.

I quite agree with the fact that I left

Cape90

out of my suspcions early and I keep ignoring them, but their slot has given me nothing that would show that their willingness to solve the game isn't genuine. In Newbie 2082 past my death he went right

in

after scum MegAzumarill and it seems that he's taken preference to it now. I'm just... buying it. If he played and pocketed me so easily then I just deserve to lose this game.

If my whole reasoning is bullshit then a nightmare scenario for me would probably be

Cape90

/

catboi

. But somehow I highly doubt this is the case.

[Greeting]

It's just something I made a mental note of that you seemed to be the most vocal and adamant part of the notknown elim. I could see that being a bold scum play. Also, in my very casual very limited experience with irl mafia I get a red flag when someone proclaims: I am willing to be voted out for the good of the town. which I think you have posted twice so far.

As for catboi, in the same vein of a bold scumplay, I can't help but think that maybe him pointing out all my mistakes and scum markers

(which are fair observations by the way)

is a way to get a miselim on me. I think the general consensus is that scum seem to be hiding pretty well and there is nothing very obvious here... But my posts apparently have obvious mistakes and tells which people are reading as scum markers so catboi is using that. Because they are pretty transparent mistakes and fair observations, it is easy for catboi to throw it on me.

In your experience, are scum typically bold and aggressive? Because I find they rarely are.


I know you're probably tired of hearing this from me, but I feel like you admitting in the parenthetical that my observations are fair is another scumtell. Town tend to be more convinced of their own innocence while scum have the knowledge that they are in fact scum and so tend to respond more passively to accusations they know are correct.

I think my experience is too limited to really answer that question. But, and correct me if I'm wrong anyone, is it not a good and maybe even strong possibility that scum would go for a bolder play in being a more active part and forceful part of elims rather than sorta quietly be a part of them because the latter would be a little too...obvious? I hope that made sense. I am learning that I sometimes struggle to put my thoughts clearly into words in this game.

It seems like a decent play to me:
-be scum
-newbie townie is hitting a lot of tells/markers/mistakes that could be read or twisted as scummy
-look as an opportunity to miselim
-point out the tells/markers/mistakes as they are easy to see and easy to agree with

Sure it is somewhat a bold play to lead the charge or suspicion on a miselim, but eventually even scum will probably have to do that instead of merely hopping on wagons to avoid suspicion on themselves...so why not lead the wagon on someone with obvious and easy-to-see markers? And when the newbie town flips town to everyone, you could pretty much feign "I can't believe X was town....look at all these markers and how scummy he looked."

And no I'm not tired of hearing that. I think the engagement here is probably helpful, in some way.

Sorry, bud, I just disagree.

I think of newbie scum as more nervous and less theatrical than SE scum given the fact that the newbies are not quite used to being scum. So yeah, I think they'd totally be quiet and acting like you did. And while it is true that often one of the scums take a bolder path - especially past Day 1, just like GrandpaMo did in Newbie 2078 and MegAzumarill did in Newbie 2082 (games I played which both were won by scum), the other would still remain a wallflower. So this doesn't contradict a

ɀefiend

/

V0ID

scumteam scenario I'm leaning towards now.

VOTE: V0ID

This is E-1. Please announce intent to hammer before you do, and

V0ID

,

if

this is announced then it would be advisable for you to claim your role.

[Greeting]

The reason I have been ignoring V0id today is because they are the only person who didn't respond to NK15 in a way that revealed their role so it is possible that they are the doctor role if we are in setup 1-A. And I didn't want to make that apparent until tomorrow in case the mafia haven't caught on.

...why have you been looking at that?!

Why was this the way you looked at the Day 1

NK 15

affair?

[Greeting]

@

butterchurn

@

catboi

@

Cape90

could this be a scumslip?

[Greeting]

I think I know how the scums found out that

notscience

was a PR. And it is a direct consequence of

Not Known 15

's actions.

Notscience

was

the only player

who did not withdraw their vote on

Not Known 15

after their claim in 320, presumably knowing for sure that the claim was fake due to their role.

I did notice this before on Day 1, but then didn't pay very much attention to it. Now it makes perfect sense.

And I don't think a complete newbie would be clever enough to spot and correctly interpret such a detail, hence why at the moment I'm convinced that there is someone experienced who is leading the scum team.

You pointed it out here and I noticed that v0id didn't react at all

Thinking about prs isn't a scumslip

There's an

important

difference. This was after

notscience

had already flipped and was confirmed as a town PR. I didn't care for it before and that's I said it with the underlined sentence.

[Greeting]

I-

[Greeting]

Anyways that doesn't matter anymore because if they were a doc there would also be a roleblocker, meaning there would be no benefit to killing V0ID once they've claimed, meaning their claim would be 50/50 anyway

I also suspect that V0ID could be mafia here and don't see a reason to hold off on killing them if we are going to ask them to claim today.

VOTE: V0ID

You're missing out on the fact that a claim could be counterclaimed and that could give us some information.

I hate how this went down actually. You didn't let others weigh in before hammering. Ugh.

[Greeting]

Well done, catboi! Good game y’all.

[Greeting]

For the record, once the game is done or I am in the Dead Thread, I stop bolding player names. There's no particular reason to it, I just no longer feel like it.

I already pointed it out in the Dead Thread - the mafia's decision to NK me Night 2 successfully confused me and led me off the correct path. The problem for the mafia was, I was no longer in this game and my incorrect leads in the Dead Thread thankfully couldn't influence the game.

Thank you for the kind words, catboi! I really enjoyed playing this game too. Replacing into it was an impulse decision which I made within like an hour of finding out I got NK'd in Open 838. I do not regret it at all!

I did steal the slot from another player by being eligible to replace in as a Newbie though!

I feel like all the Newbie games have given me a lot and this one was no exception. I am really happy that you and other townies' judgement was correct and you led us to victory.

I enjoyed playing with y'all. This was a good playerlist and to those with whom I played for the very first time, I hope we meet again in other games in the future.

Last, but not least, a thank you to fferyllt for her exemplary hosting of this game.

In other news, I am now officially no longer eligible to sign up as a Newbie in any Newbie game. This sounds more serious to me than it probably should.

[Greeting]

@V0ID, I hope the experience of being voted out as town does not discourage you from signing up for future games. You have great potential and if I may, I might suggest as town you consider the game mechanics before you get overly stressed over miseliminating. Most mafia games involve miseliminating a townie and I don't think it necessarily always has to be a bad thing. Miseliminations can give valuable info to the remaining players. If you think someone is scum, you should press and pressure them to see and judge their reactions.

Caution is advised when it's Elo ("eliminate or lose"). That is when you should thoroughly think through whom you vote out. In Newbie games you have two chances (Day 1 and Day 2) when you can miseliminate without losing immediately. And that is, if you do not hit a scum member either Day 1 or Day 2.

@butterchurn, I feel like you've got too tunnelled over me in Day 2. While I understood your accusations and judged them to come from a town point of view, at times your posts felt to me like you had a strong case of confirmation bias. It happens to everyone though! Plus, it is true that I have never rolled scum yet, but I am very moody and my playstyle has evolved even in those few months that I have been here, on MafiaScum.net. In my opinion, trying to find meta by looking into things like "player x has not done this before as town" without having hard evidence of them doing it as scum is risky and can have many flaws.

[Greeting]

There was also the issue of me weirdly phrasing my posts.

If you think my posts are chaotic, imagine what is going on inside my head! And add to that the fact that I'm not a native English speaker.

It gets annoying for me when people refuse to consider my perspective at all, that's when I start to get salty and bitchy or just outright start ignoring that player altogether. I guess I do have some room for improvement in that regard, but still, considering the fact that I let my emotions get the better of me in Newbie 2082, I think I am doing a better job with this.