Newbie 2091 | Kinobot | Game over!

[Johoohno]

Hiya all!

Let's skip this ridiculous random voting and build a bandwagon right off the bat: VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

(crossing my fingers the vote tag is correct)

[Johoohno]

@frogs, @Bella: if you guys think

you're

rusty I might as well be dust in the wind.

And if you're dust in the wind, I'm the ancient and primordial air before there was a wind

What's your favorite role to play?

[Johoohno]

Yeah, sorry about the piling on, no ill will here, just playing the game. Hope it's not scaring you off the site, despite this despicable welcoming party.

Though I'll keep my vote on you for now. Guess we'll reach maximum bandwagons on four ... but I'm not hoping for it.

@goodmorning: Asking out of curiosity (and my scum hunting style is asking questions), and since I was directing a comment your way anyway I could as well ask away. But the question could definitely go for everyone (feel free to answer it the rest of you). I, like you prefer VT for the same reason you mentioned: I'm in the blind trying to solve the puzzle.

[Johoohno]

EBWOP: First passage was aimed at CornPuffBuddha

[Johoohno]

Yeah, sorry about the piling on, no ill will here, just playing the game. Hope it's not scaring you off the site, despite this despicable welcoming party.

Though I'll keep my vote on you for now. Guess we'll reach maximum bandwagons on four ... but I'm not hoping for it.

@goodmorning: Asking out of curiosity (and my scum hunting style is asking questions), and since I was directing a comment your way anyway I could as well ask away. Snip.

This post is skeevy. It feels like a bad attempt at pocketing, but it could just be personality. It also feels awkward, as do all their posts, but you couldn't call jojoohno newb!scum. Rusty!scum?

@ Bellaphant:

Could you please explain, English is not my first language and I don't fully understand what you're accusing me of here.

[Johoohno]

Hello everyone let's have a good game

Takemikazuchi02

: Yes indeed, let's have a good game! Participation is key for a game being good in my book, and I very much would like to hear your thoughts and ideas so far. Please read back on the posts so far and pick one you want to agree with, disagree with or don't fully understand. Voicing those thoughts will help me assessing both you and the other players in order to find the scums.

ProgoWoshua

: How would you like us to interpret your vote on CornPuffBuddha?

[Johoohno]

MightyCannon has (expired on 2022-03-23 13:57:37) to confirm before I start looking for a replacement

@Asphodelus

: You're obviously aware of that the game is starting (since the mod only points to MightyCannon not having responded to the PM sent). Would you care to step in and make yourself part of the game? What are your views of how to find scum?

[Johoohno]

[/b]@ goodmorning: [/b] I see that in Open 618, which you mentioned earlier, (where you were a Hydra) had Bellaphant as scum. Anything you want to comment on her approach there in relation to this game so far? Any similarities and/or differencies?

[Johoohno]

Interesting assumption to make. What makes you so sure that they've received the daystart pm?

True enough, but it was quite a quick start after the role-PM, and I at least was monitoring the page, eager to get started, and I guess I can't be the only one doing that. But don't distract this from the fact that Asphodelus needs to get in to the game (together with a few others as well).

@Bellaphant

: Polite is how I was raised. Besides we're all here playing a game and I prefer playing in good spirit rather than having someone being turned off by my playstyle and losing interest in playing more on this site all together. I know that some players are abrasive/aggressive and have made that into their scum hunting strategy and skill (and sometimes being efficient in it as well), but that's not my way, especially not in a newbie game. This world has seen enough of power plays for egotisitic gains.

[Johoohno]

Whoa, I do like a game moving on with new posts when I get back to it, but the trodding through posts is quite a chore sometimes. Neat to have so many of us participating though, this'll be great!

@Bellaphant

: What are your thoughts of goodmorning as of now?

@frogsfrogs

: What do you think of Asphodelus reply and reaction to you in 81 & 82?

UNVOTE: CornPuffBuddha and
VOTE: Bellaphant

[Johoohno]

Scummy for page one! Like I said, by that point the only things that had pinged me were that and johoo. Neither of which I now think are alignment based. Same with 'in the very loose sense'

@gm, I knew it was me. @take,

it doesn't affect my read on them.

I have them as my strongest town read.

I feel my read on frog changing almost every time they post.

@ Bellaphant

: Who and what post are you referring to here (the line I bolded above)? It feels as if I'm doing your job here, trying to decipher your answers. Wouldn't mind quotes or redirections to posts to make it easier.

[Johoohno]

I guess we’re looking into frogsfrogs since their posts swing back and forth on the align-o-meter (I agree on that as well). These are my findings:

I Agree on their take on Bellaphant in post 76!

Post 80 is odd, it almost feels as if they’re coaching Asphodelus in what to do and think, which posts 81 and 82 shows the result of. However, I’m not sure about coaching as a scum tell any more. *Puts on reading glasses* back in the days when scum weren’t allowed to day chat in a separate thread, coaching was more of a tell, but I’m not sure about that nowadays. That’s why I asked frogs about those posts in my post 100 and I’m surprised frogsfrogs doesn’t have a more nuanced reaction to those two posts than what’s explained in 102.

I do like 103, but if the “honest mistake-saying” is refering to Asphodelus turn around in 80 and 81 I don’t agree with that interpretation.

I’m not overly suspicious of frogsfrogs, but the connection between frogs and Asphodelus bothers me. Am I misinterpreting all of the above or is someone else seeing this as well?

And a few questions:

@ Takemikazuchi02

: If you're to point to someone you're getting scum vibes from, or even want to put a vote on - who would that be?

@ Asphodelus

: What are your views of frogsfrogs?

Post edit: I’ll look in to CornPuffBuddhas read list tomorrow, we’re close to midnight here in Sweden.

[Johoohno]

Hi TistDaniel, good to have all the spots active! Hm, Bellaphant is at E-1 I see, but I'll leave my vote anyway on her (just checking: Am I correct in assuming "she" is correct? Keep seeing you as a Bella) since she is one of my top two candidates for scums right now. (The other one being Asphodelus - but I won't poke that just yet due to they being V/LA right now) . I don't see any of those not voting for her as loose cannons, and if they happen to vote for her anyway that'll be informative as well.

@ Takemikazuchi02

: Can you elaborate on waht you find scummy in goodmorning's post 42?

@ Takemikazuchi02

(again): Let's pretend Bellaphant is eliminated and flips town: Which ones of all the voters would you think are possible scums?/ Let's pretend Bellaphant flips scum - do you think the last scum would hide among those voting for her?

@ ProgoWoshua

: What do you think of Bella's post 131 & 148?

@ TistDaniel

: In post 171 you say "With Corn, even after having just read through all the posts, I can't tell you off the top of my head what Corn has felt about anything". What is it with CornPuffBuddha's post 119 you find lacking?

[Johoohno]

@ Bellaphant

: Why aren't you voting me since you have me pegged for scum?

[Johoohno]

Okay, almost ready to drop Bellaphant, one last question first:

@ Bellaphant:

Why didn't you vote me right off when you painted me scum?

Hm, loads has happened here and I need to reread a few pages and think a bit.

[Johoohno]

@ TistDaniel:

How did you come to the conclusion there is no scum on the Bellaphant wagon?

[Johoohno]

Yeah, I kind of agree. We've got plenty to look back on come Day 2. But I'd like frogsfrogs to get back in so we've got a more up to date read and participation from them as well before we go to night.

Not sure though if town is ready to come together to a decision of who to eliminate though. And I definitely want an elimination Day 1!

I'll UNVOTE: Bellaphant for now and sleep on it.

[Johoohno]

@ Bellaphant:

Sure! Since you were on my radar and in 104 you mentioned frogsfrogs was making you go back and forth on your thought on their alignment. That was true for me as well. And in 113 said the same thing. So a person on my radar and one off it had the exact same feeling about a third player as I myself. That got me curious so I went back on frogsfrogs to see where I actually stood.

And, biased or not, I liked their case on you in post 76, while I didn’t understand post 80. It felt as if they were stepping in and defending Takemikazuchi02 and at the same time advising Asphodelus into acting and voting differently. And right after that Asphodelus comes back in and frogsfrogs “gets their way”. That is why I later on asked frogsfrogs about what they thought about Asphodelus (post 100). I got the answers in post 102 (I see I linked to 103, but it’s supposed to be 102), and agreed with it more or less, but would’ve liked to see more of something in the line of “thought I’m surprised he changed his mind that easily”.
I’m crappy at finding connections between players but thought I was on to something here, but since nobody else picked up on it later on I wrote it off as me having misinterpreted the interactions there.

As for the vote on you:
• Post 60: You lashed out at Progo for “dragging out the conversation” instead of goodmorning, who was equally responsible for doing that in my eyes. Felt as if you wanted to buddy up with goodmorning there.
• Post 76 from frogsfrogs, as mentioned before, had me nodding along with their view of your posts so far.
• Post 85: “they are good at it” Aimed at goodmorning again, felt as something an informed player would say.
And by 100 I voted you, and had started to see you as scummy and read all posts by you with that alignment in mind.

[Johoohno]

Argh, sorry for not incuding links to the posts. Tell me if you want me to do that and I'll repost it with links tomorrow.
Off to bed now.

[Johoohno]

Okay, I'm back and reading up.

[Johoohno]

Okay, I'm usually terrible at finding town, instead I'm seeing scum everywhere. However, my interactions with CornPuffBuddha in the beginning has left me with a town feel, and he's the only one I haven't got any scum posts marked on so far. Gotta find out if I'm biased: Could those of you feeling he's scummy please explain to me why that is?

Adbla's entrance (Hi there, thanks for stepping in making frogsfrogs spot more active) had him painted as scummier than frogs (I started seeing his "townread/scumread" in 266 & 267 as a scum slip), but then I liked his catch on T02 being over confident.

My top two choices for elimination today are Progo and ... well, that's the dilemma ... I really don't have a clear second candidate.

• There is still something that bugs me with
  Bellaphant
  , and reading back on my notes, it has to do with her interaction with goodmorning (see below). I do like her later posts a lot more though.
  
• Not sure of
  TistDaniel
  either. In some parts it looks like he is trying to solve the game by sheer logic, but too many posts feels as derailing on tech not directly relevant to this game at this moment. Then there's the CornPuffBuddha focus that I don't get (and again the need for me to find out if I'm biased there or not).
  
• Asphodelus
  is somewhat on my radar as well. But that is mainly from the start of the game. I felt that she kind of lind winded followed on the voting of Bellaphant in post 106 after my vote there.
  
• And then there is
  goodmorning
  . I know that many people have him as town, and I do see that as well. But what irks me is how Bellaphant is having the same opinion as him and how he is trying to distance somewhat. I'm also wondering about his way to insinuate things, that he has a read coming up, that something has been said that will make him change his vote and such like. Could be play style perhaps? It also felt as if the case built on Progo in the beginning (post 56) was very pushy.

@ Progo:

looking forward to your read list!

@ goodmorning:

could you link me to a game where you're town and one where you're scum? Preferably newbie games if there are any.

@ those seeing CornPuffBuddha scummy:

Why is that?

[Johoohno]

Gaah, sloppy again, missing the links:

Here's the addendum to my post above:

266; 267 on Abdbla

106 on Asphodelus

56 on goodmorning

[Johoohno]

Thanks!

I'm not sure Progo os at E-1, Isn't goodmorning voting frogs?

[Johoohno]

I was kind of hoping we would get to see Progo's reaction to being at "E-1" but yes, my count agrees.

You could make that E-1 happen by yourself you know.

[Johoohno]

Johoohno

... He's barely active enough for me to not consider him a lurker and his posts are just pro-town enough for me to not think he's scummy.

Yeah, sorry about that. I rarely make more than a post or two per day. I felt myself getting disconnected to the feel of the game now so I've stayed on for some time tonight, just to get back in the loop. Reading D1 on the game goodmorning linked me to just now.

[Johoohno]

All right, I've read D1 in goodmorning's linked games (the last one didn't star goodmorning until D2 so I skipped it). I was looking for her D1 act to compare it to this one. However, those games were radically different from this one (both the SCUM GAME and the TOWNIE PR GAME) so I didn't find what I was looking for.

[Johoohno]

Started reading up.

Speaking of, while I don't agree with most of the readlist, I find it townie in and of itself. Not enough to bump Progo over any other elim target so far, but definitely warrants a re-read of the possible elims.

Here Abdbla giving a townread of Progo, while still voting for him.

In the second graph, I drew an arrow whenever someone was on a wagon against someone. Roughly, being higher up on the graph means you have more incoming wagons. I don't think there's any "anomalies" to draw on from this graph, but I definitely don't like that Ash and Joho both have equal activity here to Daniel, considering that he replaced in fairly late, and that most of it's towards Bella.

I'm also not sure if anyone else finds these graphs at all relevant, but I thought they'd be interesting to share.

I do like a nice graph here and there so keep'em coming. What stuck out to me in these graphs are a few things unmentioned by Abdbla: In these graphs Abdbla has put up frogsfrogs instead of frogsfrogs/abdbla. Kind of a way to distance himself from it. Although he can't really be responsible for his predecessor, his slot has even fewer outward bound arrows than Asphodelus and myself. That being said, I'm not sure how helpful these VCA:s are yet - aren't they more useful when we've got one scum and can start looking for connections?

VOTE: Abdbla

[Johoohno]

Up to date with my reading now.

... aaaand going back a few posts to Progo's read list:

Johoohno - Townlean

: Seems interested to move the game forward, but only does so in ways that would be easy to emulate as scum. However, I really believe 245 and 305 are made with townie intentions, mainly because he's scumreading someone who is being townread by most others. Unpopular scumreads help close Town blind spots and are usually useless for Mafia.

This may be an odd thing to lift, since I'm being critical about something positive seen in my posts, but here goes. While this action can close blindspots, why wouldn't scum me scumread someone townread by most? Feels like a smart move to sow uncertainty and discord, does it not?

[Johoohno]

@ Asphodelus

: This had better be good, whatever it is you're doing. I Seriously dislike post 368 and 373.

[Johoohno]

@ goodmorning

: All right, I'll check on Progo, if you indulge me in thinking a bit about my 121 post and follow Asphodelus' and Abdbla/frogsfrogs' interaction backwards from there as well as forward.

[Johoohno]

I Agree on their take on Bellaphant in post 76!

Post 80 is odd, it almost feels as if they’re coaching Asphodelus in what to do and think, which posts 81 and 82 shows the result of. However, I’m not sure about coaching as a scum tell any more. *Puts on reading glasses*

back in the days when scum weren’t allowed to day chat in a separate thread, coaching was more of a tell, but I’m not sure about that nowadays

. That’s why I asked frogs about those posts in my post 100 and I’m surprised frogsfrogs doesn’t have a more nuanced reaction to those two posts than what’s explained in 102.

@ Takemikazuchi02:

How did you interpret this back when it was mentioned in post 121?

[Johoohno]

Come to think of it, it's a bit odd that Ash knew about the Maf daytalk but not about how the Masons work.

Links please?

[Johoohno]

We go to night with no elim. Someone needs chance to be T e-1, claim and potentially be hammered/have another wagon, so it's basically consolidation tine. It looks like viable candidates are you, corn and adb.

I'd rather elim in the opposite order to that.

Not eliminating anyone D1 is not an option in my book. My vote is on Abdbla, but I'm willing to move it to get things moving. Right now I'm juggling a few different possibilities, and I don't want to get in to all of them. But moving my vote to Progo is definitely still on the table (really dislike how he disappeared once the votes on him evaporated), but for the right reasons i could widen my circle as well.

[Johoohno]

@ CornPuffBuddha:

Please use your vote to put some pressure where you find it due!

I won't be available that much tomorrow evening, but I'll try and check in around midnight (GMT+1). The deadline seems to be right around when I get home from work on Friday, possibly able to chip in the last vote where needed, but not certain. But I really dislike cutting it too close to the deadline.

[Johoohno]

@Johoohno

:
1. Who is scum?
2. You never really elaborated on or pushed your take in 374. Care to?

1:

Asphodelus or CornPuffBuddha are my strongest guesses as of now.

2:

It felt as if Asphodelus all of a sudden wanted to distance herself from the train on ProgoWoshua (a.k.a. Aisa). In post 309 she puts ProgoWoshua on E-1 (which is actually only E-2 which I bring up in 311). Later on TistDaniel puts Progo on E-1 in post 355 for real. A new train is building on Abdbla. In post 368 Asphodelus is kind of turning focus against Abdbla, which comes a bit sudden according to me and in 373 she removes her vote from ProgoWoshua.

At that time I had Abdbla and Asphodelus as possible masons/scums. Their interactions felt to me as if they had an alternative dialogue on the side. As if they had spoken about this and wanting to not vote the same person. And why wouldn’t masons want to vote the same person?

Later on, this feeling got even stronger by post 393 where Asphodelus spoke about masons and Abdbla posting the setup, only three minutes later (post 394) to bring up the possibility of masons. I thought this as a soft claim (once again, either as actual masons or as scums faking it). I was kind of worried by that time that my vote was on a possible mason, but when Abdbla claims vanilla by post 431 I felt pretty okay keeping my vote. I thought I would’ve claimed mason at that time, had I been Abdbla and being a mason for sure.

So what I’m saying is that I feel Asphodelus was trying to distance herself from Abdbla, and gaining town cred for voting on a scum (either if that would lead to an elimination – gaining strong town cred – or at least not be on a townie elimination). I think Abdbla and Asphodelus agreed upon, in their separate thread that they need to split up (both can’t be voting for Progowoshua) and that they need to sacrifice the most suspiciously viewed one of them, hence the turn around on Abdbla from Asphodelus.

The D2 post 458 by Asphodelus rings false to me. It sounds as if she’s trying to paint herself town. And 469 feels as PR fishing.


CornPuffBuddha is somewhat on my radar as well. Feels as if he wants to get on my good side a bit too much right now:

n. Of the people on the abdbla vote, I am fairly certain that Joho is town, considering that he lead the vote on adbla

@ CornPuffBuddha:

What do you mean by me leading the vote on abdbla?

[Johoohno]

@Joho: why are you so sure that the Scum wouldn't be on the same wagon? What motivation would Scum have to crumb Masons together in a 2 Scum easily cc'd semiOpen setup?

To avoid guilt by association.

By soft claiming, they don't have to stand by it if a different power role is eliminated/night killed, but it's a neat trick if someone actually claims mason (or any power role) and we're enough far ahead in the game that town can't afford a miselimination.

[Johoohno]

Why would Masons want to vote the same person? Just because they're confirmed Town to each other doesn't mean they have the same reads, or even

any

reads in common. Besides that, why wouldn't they want to hide their identities from Scum? Being in lockstep would surely make them fairly obvious, no?

@ goodmorning:

Possibly, but at that point in time I didn't understand their want to separate their votes. But I admit to me having perhaps locked in my reads on them as masons/scums and Abdbla's flip strengthened my read as such. You spoke earlier of not doing associative connections before a flip - what can you say about that now D2?

@

Johoohno

480 -- This is stupid. Again, for any of that to make sense, it'd require some sort of play that'd be beyond stupid to accomplish literally nothing. There are easier bandwagons to complete without eliminating my partner, if I was mafia. From a game standpoint, I would be going at a minus for a possible better start, than you know, eliminating anyone else and having an actual better start.

@ Asphodelus:

Not sure about that, town cred is a pretty strong currency in this game - or do you disagree with that?

I think I've only played scum once, but yes, if I recall correctly, I did talk less. The less you talk, the less people notice you, and the easier it is to get by without attracting much attention, or ever being suspected. I feel like scum almost always post less.

@ TistDaniel:

I wouldn't make too much out of post and word count in one specific game -that would say more about personality than alignment. However, if you compare a player’s different games with one another you might find patterns that say something, hence meta reads. This also makes veteran players somewhat aware of how they play, so that they can't be distinguished easily for being town or scum. But I agree with you that there might be a tendency for scum to monitor their posts more. Since you seem to have a few games under your belt and a soft spot for statistics: why don't you compare a few of your games and see where scums slid in their votes on the wagons that led to eliminations, depending on the eliminated being scum/town? That way you might find different scum motivations and perhaps that is of service in this particular game when you go back and think about how all of us have voted/not voted.

[Johoohno]

@ TistDaniel:

499 Was not the data I meant by saying:

@ TistDaniel:

why don't you compare a few of your games and see where scums slid in their votes on the wagons that led to eliminations, depending on the eliminated being scum/town? That way you might find different scum motivations and perhaps that is of service in this particular game when you go back and think about how all of us have voted/not voted.

I meant that you could check the winning elimination vote counts and reflect on what motivations scums had for being off or on those eliminations, and even at what spot they were in the voting order.

@ Aisa:

Question time! @Johoohno:

but when Abdbla claims vanilla by post 431 I felt pretty okay keeping my vote.
[...]

1)

So you were online around then? Did you feel the need to engage in the discussion at all?

2)

You seemed suspicious of my slot in 421. What happened to that read?

3)

What would you say is your playing style? You seem to be asking a lot of questions, but much of the time the conclusions you're drawing are not apparent. You see why this is troubling?

1)

No, I don’t think I saw it as it was posted. But I always read up on all posts, since my last interaction, and make notes on things of interest to me. And by the time I got to that post that was the feeling I was having.

2)

I've said I see more scum posts than town posts (305) and I haven't dropped you, but since ProgoWoshua's slot is being piloted by you now I've got to see what to make of it before I rush to conclusions. Progo wasn’t the easiest one to read for me, and I'm definitely not dead set on anyone today (though Asphodelus and CornPuffBuddha are my strongest guesses right now). At that time I was definitely wanting an elimination since we were nearing the end of D1. There were quite a few votes on Progo and I too had suspicions of that slot so I was just sharing my willingness to move my vote there.

3)

I ask questions (16), and I am not a fan of long winded posts (which is post seems to be, and for that I apologize) so I share what I find interesting enough and gauge reactions to both questions asked and answered by others. I am aware of the fact that it happens I get tunnel vision on players, but that’s a way to gauge their reactions as well as everyone elses to the case. Does anyone else see or react to what I bring up and how do they react? That is very useful since it’s easier for me to interpret reactions to something I’ve brought up myself. How would you characterize your scum hunting methods?

I just want to address the fact that you’re calling me out for "coasting D1" whereas my posts have been fairly regular, and you’re only assessing the posts from me and don't know the time I spend reading and thinking. Not all info is wise to share right off the bat, sometimes it is better to read and think than to write.

Right now I'm juggling a few different possibilities, and I don't want to get in to all of them.

This here is an example of where I didn't want to share my thoughts about Asphodelus and Abdbla being a possible Mason/Scum pair.

@CPB: I don't know that Joho would necessarily have wanted to quickhammer and also not sure the timing for a more traditional hammer would have worked for him. He could have planned to jump off partner abd to deadline compromise hammer Progo to not lose towncred, and just missed his chance. I'd have to go back and reread that time period to see what seems more likely to me.

@ goodmorning:

Sounds as if you're scum reading me - Care to elaborate? I’m also interested in your promised post from 499.

[Johoohno]

Asphodelus & TistDaniel:

Do you see any specific connections between frogsfrogs/Abdbla and CornPuffBuddha?

[Johoohno]

1.

Alright. I'm not

completely

sold that you didn't accidentally let slip that you were actively lurking, but let's say you have me 70% convinced

@ Aisa:

I’m not sure what you are looking at here? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I saw the post in question (where Abdbla claims vanilla) and didn’t respond to it. If I was scum, shouldn’t that have given me an excuse to switch over to Progo? And if I was town, what’s the harm in me staying on Abdbla and in the end contributing to the elimination of a scum?

You also rephrase coasting to fencesitting. I agree that I am not a player who tries to stay in the midst of all action drawing all attention to myself and stay in the centre of what’s going on. It might be something in the line of being extrovert versus being introvert: a question of where and how you find energy, gather information and, in the end, resolve to make a decision. Perhaps it could be viewed upon as fencesitting, but I think there is a difference to how fencesitting is used in these kind of games. I believe I have communicated where my suspicions lie and I think most of my posts are not too often bringing up a wild swinginess of how I read players. I have seen a few of those posts where players are kind of hedging their bets (could be this could be that) like 535 by CornPuffBuddha which borders on opportunistic hedging to save ones own neck:

@ Aisa's

post 528
Asphodelus is answering abdbla’s graph post (333), which is right after Bella has put the third vote on abdbla (331). That might be where they (abdbla and Asphodelus), in time, started to make up those plans of sacrifice I’ve spoken of. Note also how Asphodelus is not addressing much of abdbla’s more recent post 366 in her 368, perhaps wanting to see what happens with the abdbla votes. Though Asphodelus leaves herself with an opening by saying

At this point, I'm thinking Progo is actually going to flip innocent, and

the scum pair is Takemikazuchi02 and Abdbla

. However, that's also second guessing myself.

I'm well aware that whomever we elim today is going to be town

, and I can't see anyone actually defending Progo.
And that becomes the massive WIFOM.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Post 373 is then giving visible movement towards frogsfrogs/abdbla as if to make sure everyone in hindsight can follow Asphodelus move from one wagon to another.

But since I seem to be the only one registering this it might be one of those “a beautiful mind”-moments where I clearly see all these patterns coming together, while everyone around sees the growing insanity. With that said, I’ll drop this track of Asphodelus connection to abdbla. A note though, there are still things I’m concerned about when it comes to Asphodelus, so she’s still on my radar.

[Johoohno]

Actually, let me just post it now.

It seems very likely that the nightkill was blocked. That means we have either Jailkeeper or Doctor. If we have Doctor, they're paired with either Tracker or Cop.

I've been crunching the numbers, and I think this is the best strategy.

I'm going to flip vanilla town. After I flip, here's what you should do.

Doctor: Do not claim unless you targeted Corn last night. If you targeted Corn last night, I am wrong about Corn. If you targeted Corn last night, you should claim now, because odds are heavily against you ever targeting the same person as scum again. You might serve town by protecting Cop or Tracker if they claim, but they're probably not going to claim unless they know who scum is, in which case the game is pretty much over.

Doctor: If you did not target Corn last night, don't act tonight. It's important for town to know that you did not block the nightkill. And definitely don't claim.

Cop, Tracker, Jailkeeper: target Corn. If there's no nightkill, that means Corn is scum. If there is a nightkill, and nobody saw Corn do it, that means Corn is innocent.

What if scum withhold the nightkill to throw doubt on Corn? That means they've given town an additional day and an additional townie to help solve. That's a *good* thing.

If Corn is scum, this is solved on D3. If Corn is not scum, this confirms him as town without a single power role having to out themselves.

I believe this is the best strategy for town at this point in the game. You may feel free to hammer me if you want.

So a living CPB D3 in this scenario is a *good* thing, but we still need to eliminate him by then since the real scum could've withheld the nk? Or am I missing something?

[Johoohno]

And also also that if there's a Doctor they should absolutely act tonight.

100% agrees to this!

[Johoohno]

@Joho: it's a good thing because the day/night cycle is usually two kills for scum, and they're sacrificing one of those kills by getting town to kill Corn.

So let's say you're town and we kill you. There is nk (since we follow your instructions) and D3 we have to eliminate CPB (and he turns out to be town as well) just to make sure he's not scum. Then we're in D4 with two less townies. Sounds like a roundabout way to extend the game.

Following this I actually prefer eliminating CPB today. But I'm not 100 % certain of that just yet.

[Johoohno]

EBWOP: there is NO nk

[Johoohno]

@ Asphodelus:

I hear you disputing the logical motivation for said bussing, not the actual interpretation of it. Also, some people play strictly by logics, while others tend to go by their gut feelings. That makes it hard to look at others strictly by your own set of mind.

However, CornPuffBuddha seems to be the most likely elimination as of now and I'd like to hear from him (as well as Aisa) before ending this day. Depending on his post’s content I'm seeing a push for claim from him as well, before elimination.

@ CornPuffBuddha:

What is your view of recent events in the thread, and what does your read list look like now?

@ Aisa:

IMO new scum tend to be less convoluted than pretending-you-don't-understand-the-setup-to-pr-fish.

Which of the players in this group would you label as possible "new scum"?

@ all ornithologists:

Will talking about pigeons help us find scum?

[Johoohno]

First I need to know something important.

If tracker targets a maf pr do they know if they visited two people?

Short answer: yes!

Post 2 will give you all information, especially if you click the spoiler tags.

[Johoohno]

@ Takemikachuzi02:

I'd like you to go through those four scenarios again with worst case scenario in mind for each one them and please report back what errors you've made.

[Johoohno]

Busy tonight (just like last Thursday), though kind of waiting for the CornPuffBuddha post anyway.

Will check in tomorrow night.

[Johoohno]

It feels as if we're coming to a halt here. I think a CornPuffBuddha flip will give useful information to town.

VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

This is E-1

If someone intend to hammer, ask for a proper claim first.

[Johoohno]

I don't know. If he was getting eliminated, a PR claim would result in exposing another PR for sure.

I'm not too sure about that. If you were a powerrole at that situation, would you've counterclaimed on D1?

[Johoohno]

Links

• Public thread
  
• Mod PT
  
• Mafia PT
  
• Dead thread

Thanks for modding Goearge Bailey - How do I get in to the linked threads? I only get a "not authorized" result clicking on them.

[Johoohno]

That was exciting! I did not have any PR read at all on T02 so well done Doc play there.

And nice save on TistDaniel as well.

[Johoohno]

Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how I played.

I think you did well! It's tricky to replace in and Progo and you had wildly different play styles so I really had to reevaluate your slot. The post from you that pinged most scum for me was 500 where it felt a bit as hedging where you pegged me for popular scum as well as dropping Asphodel to as close a scum lean without being pegged for scum when you in the post before were handing out townpoints to her. To me it looked like you were kind of supporting both sides there (me and Asphodelus).

[Johoohno]

How was my play over all then?

Sorry for tunneling on you, but there were so many things (tiny in the beginning) that pinged me and the more I scum read you the more pings I found. One thing to be aware of though: try and stay cool and don't lash out, unless there is some gain in it. Had I been scum I would've tried to poke/nudge you when you got frustrated.