Newbie 2099 | GTA San Andreas | Endgame

[FancyPants]

Ya it aint BBT unless I’m getting mindfucked somehow.

[FancyPants]

Setup Info

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Bolded part.

So scum BBT has multiple options to deal with juice if he has any idea at that juice is PR.

[FancyPants]

Spartan they can block and NK juice. They can also safely block juice and kill you so it's pretty important we get scum now.

@BBT why are you convinced it's Bulba and not flowers?

@Spartan, why no Rad today?

[FancyPants]

Here is an interesting thought.

I'm pretty sure that it's Bulba/Rad and their posting today supports this theory. However, Bulba is happy enough to vote Rad, but despite Rad scum reading Bulba he simply won't vote there, instead choosing to push Flowers.

Bulba is roleblocker and Rad is goon?

Do you mind elaborating what about Bulba and Rads interactions today implicate them as a pair.

[FancyPants]

If you guys want it made anymore clear: my theory is BBT is RBer

What do you think of my opinion that BBT knew juice was a PR and did nothing about it?

And therefore cant be scum.

I can see a Bulba-town needing a scum buddy for Rad though since flowers has enamored everyone.

Let’s let Rad say something and then eliminate him.

[FancyPants]

Town
Juice
fancy

Town lean
Flower
Spartan

Null
Bulba
Bbt

Scum
Cat

@Rad what made you want to ISO flowers, last time you posted a read list he was a town lean for you.

This is kinda the first case you’ve ‘started’ on anyone this game.

Rad don't you wanna answer this question?

Don't you want to point out I've been wrong twice before and call me a scum lord.


Meh Rad is just being a good scum buddy and not giving away too much information. I don't see any self respecting townie self vote here.

[FancyPants]

I'm not actually certain about Rad or this game in general but I am pretty sure of BBT not being scum and the claimed PRs.

I'd you're worried about me leading the narrative again I'll vote whoever you tell me to as long as it's in Rad/Flowrers/Bulba.

I just don't see how it could be anyone else.

Maybe BBT is big braining but it makes far more sense to just roleblock or kill Juice.

[FancyPants]

I don't see self-voting at an instant scum tell - its nearly always frustrated town who just dont give a fuck.

I mean Rad doesn't strike me as someone who gives up as town.

[FancyPants]

And anyway Juices reaction could be exactly what he's looking for.

[FancyPants]

I still feel like there is some bias going on here. If I self voted and let myself be lynched as town, juice would have said "performative". Why is he acting like it's a town tell if rad does it? I think rad unvoting should say something here. Rad never intended on actually dying as he knows juice is not set on voting him

We're not biased just trying to figure this shit out .

I do like your outrage though.

[FancyPants]

FP and juice make sense to me as day one targets for a night kill. I buy that he was protected.

Sure, town!Fancy target makes sense, I think we can all agree on that. Who do you think does the night kill in a scum!Fancy world?

You trying to help Flowers elim me in lylo hmmm?

[FancyPants]

I unvoted because Juice asked me to and he started talking about something interesting that I had also been considering (but also quietly dismissing due to how well scum!Fancy would have to have been playing in d1).

I'd like to point out that Bulba is incapable of considering scum!Fancy and is instead tunneled on me. Could be TMI here.

According to you it was between Bulba and Flowers, this change of heart is very abrupt.

[FancyPants]

I jailed the killer night one.
i jailed the killer's target night two.

honestly - the only person who wouldn't target me night two would be FP.

I don't think if Rad was mafia he would have self voted. So this is where I am parking.

I knew you were JK, i would have stabbed you so fast you wouldn't have even felt it.

Look at how I opened today my whole day was predicated on the fact that I was all but sure You were the JK. Go read my start to today again and then vote me with a straight face please.

[FancyPants]

I jailed the killer night one.
i jailed the killer's target night two.

honestly - the only person who wouldn't target me night two would be FP.

I don't think if Rad was mafia he would have self voted. So this is where I am parking.

And why doesn't this work in reverse I.e. You protected me. Night 1 and jailed the killer night 2.

[FancyPants]

If we assume - that last night a killed was stopped. Mechanics wise for this site - do both mafia have to vote a kill for a kill to happen

Juice I wasn't 100% sure you were Jk but the above post heavily implies it. It only makes sense from a JK perspective.

[FancyPants]

I can only assume the people who still wanna vote BBT are either scum or haven't read my posts.

I'd you are town and have read my posts and still want to vote BBT please explain how.

[FancyPants]

I can only assume the people who still wanna vote BBT are either scum or haven't read my posts.

I'd you are town and have read my posts and still want to vote BBT please explain how.

if not BBT - then you must be in favour of Bulba instead of a potential save?

I'd vote Bulba instead of noone sure. But I like Rad the most, I think you locked up the killer last night, it just makes the most sense.

Rad also only made a case on one person all game basically his case on flowers, he then self votes and semi-gives in.

I think this is a last minute hard bus followed by falling on his sword.

I know my credibility as a town leader has gone down but those are my thoughts.

If you, BBT and Spartan really want to vote Bulba I guess we can, but he wouldn't be my preference I'd elim Rad first.

[FancyPants]

I'm also slightly worried that flowers is going to win this in the final 3 when I'm not around but I probably have at least one more day to argue my case since most likely safe tonight.

[FancyPants]

Did Spartan claim Tracker before or after I claimed Jail Keeper?

After but I heavily alluded to it before.

Yeah so he would have had to claim something and at that stage scum Spartan couldn't know we only had one PR. Assuming we were in a JK/Goon set up.

[FancyPants]

Spartan isn't 100% clear but I look a them like I look at BBT they are like 90% clear in my eyes.

[FancyPants]

To be clear I don't really want to vote Bulba but I will if there is a town consensus.

[FancyPants]

I can only assume the people who still wanna vote BBT are either scum or haven't read my posts.

I'd you are town and have read my posts and still want to vote BBT please explain how.

if not BBT - then you must be in favour of Bulba instead of a potential save?

I'd vote Bulba instead of noone sure. But I like Rad the most, I think you locked up the killer last night, it just makes the most sense.

Rad also only made a case on one person all game basically his case on flowers, he then self votes and semi-gives in.

I think this is a last minute hard bus followed by falling on his sword.

I know my credibility as a town leader has gone down but those are my thoughts.

If you, BBT and Spartan really want to vote Bulba I guess we can, but he wouldn't be my preference I'd elim Rad first.

i would much much prefer to vote rad today

rad giving in so easily makes less sense to me bc i know i'm town & it vaguely rings my paranoia bells of t/t but i've said that i think giving in makes sense from w! perspective as well

You see guys they've decided to hard bus!!!

Honestly Idk.

[FancyPants]

To be clear I don't really want to vote Bulba but I will if there is a town consensus.

Why are you so against bulba? As you're sure it's Rad who is their partner?

All this outrage reads genuine to me. I think Rads game in general is more scummy, as for flowers always never was scummy but they aren't. However I think the directive in the scum thread is too hard bus.

[FancyPants]

To be clear I don't really want to vote Bulba but I will if there is a town consensus.

Why are you so against bulba? As you're sure it's Rad who is their partner?

I'm not sure of anything, I'm giving my best guesses.

[FancyPants]

I mean in theory as long as everyone sticks to their guns and we vote Rad/Bulba/Flowers in any order we win.

But I'm worried about a potential flowers/BBT/Spartan kind of endgame.

Where flowers convinces Spartan BBT is big braining.

Which is why I'd rather not mislim at all.

[FancyPants]

And again maybe it is Bulba and Rad I'm in my head now. Going to bed.

[FancyPants]

I’m reading the last couple pages on my phone so excuse me if I say things that get explained later.

I can quote several posts where I townread juice pretty damn hard.

The point isn’t that BBT townread juice, it’s that he town read juice for PR related reasons. Therefore scum bbt could RB or kill Juice.

[FancyPants]

What thing has BBT done to be town other than that vague "I have reason to townread juice"?

If you pay attention to the thread of BBTs thoughts he’s kinda suspicious of Juice until day 2 when this gets dropped.

[FancyPants]

Why does a team of me and rad not kill juice to collect the lynch on BBT today?

I’m not sure what you are getting at here.

In this scenario bulba/Rad scum team doesn’t know Juice is JK and maybe even did try to kill Juice but scum Rad was blocked.

[FancyPants]

BBT should not be cleared at all for the reasons I stated above. It is more than likely that BBT roleblocker would not roleblock the same person he was targeting for a kill aka Juice. I would assume that rad was sent to kill Juice and then BBT roleblocked his other PR read.

Yeah this is totally possible, but it’s really suboptimal.

You do have a point that in general there exists options for BBT scum but I think they are all pretty unlikely.

I’m starting to think that both Bulba and BBT are town and it probably is just flowers and Rad.
But that’s because I’m buying that Bulba is still trying to figure out the game, even if I think they might be wrong about BBT.

[FancyPants]

In group C, scum knows the setup after N1 due to the block. scum!Spartan could easily make this claim.

This is only true if I’m scum right? Otherwise they can’t know whether I was protected by doc or Jk.

[FancyPants]

I think we just go Rad honestly I know he’s most likely goon but he’s the most likely pair with either Bulba or Flowers.


On to flowers as an aside their posts have been strong and real logical but I’m not really getting a strong town

feel

I think since their account is so new they very likely are an alt in any case so we could be dealing with a very strong scum player.

As for BBT there are scenarios that exist where he’s scum but it goes against the optimal scum play in my opinion. I also never really scum read that slot this game so even if I accept that Nk actions don’t clear him I’d need someone to tell me

why that slot is scum rather than why that slot has a possibility to be scum.

In either case I think Rad is the safest option, even though they are most likely goon.

VOTE: Rad

Game has gotten hard, scum are fighting whoever they are.

[FancyPants]

BBT should not be cleared at all for the reasons I stated above. It is more than likely that BBT roleblocker would not roleblock the same person he was targeting for a kill aka Juice. I would assume that rad was sent to kill Juice and then BBT roleblocked his other PR read.

Yeah this is totally possible, but it’s really suboptimal.

You do have a point that in general there exists options for BBT scum but I think they are all pretty unlikely.

I’m starting to think that both Bulba and BBT are town and it probably is just flowers and Rad.
But that’s because I’m buying that Bulba is still trying to figure out the game, even if I think they might be wrong about BBT.

You dont think that the above just stinks of performative theatre to try and distance Bulba and Rad?
Then to end up with Bulba no longer wanting to eliminate Rad.... how convenient.

Yeah the difference between ‘performance’ and genuine thought process is a difficult one. I personally read bulba as genuine however.

[FancyPants]

And FP is not 100 percent clear? Who said his word was the law of the land?

And lo he spaketh.

[FancyPants]

Just to be clear Bulba I didn't say those who vote BBT are scum said if you're town ad want to vote BBT I need an explanation.

[FancyPants]

Spartan is so cynical. He is never willing to consider the possibility that I might even be town. Why is that? Just because I didn't answer a question to his satisfaction day 2? What are his real reasons for wanting me eliminated? And I named a scenario that I think is the one that happened. But he did raise a valid point about you knowing the setup. The team could still be BBT and spartan or flower and spartan. Rad is occam's razor here (he was just scum that got roleblocked).

Who cares if I didn't know juice was JK? It makes sense to kill him at some point just by virtues of being the towniest.

To address your point about my argument not making sense, why would roleblocker and goon both target same person for kill and roleblock?

In group C, scum knows the setup after N1 due to the block. scum!Spartan could easily make this claim.

This is only true if I’m scum right? Otherwise they can’t know whether I was protected by doc or Jk.

There's no doc in group C

Ah OK yes good point.

I still think the way Spartan acted and came out today makes me believe the claim.

The more we talk the more confusing this day gets with low percentage chance options popping up.

I think we should vote Rad but I'll vote Flowers or Bulba to avoid a mislynch.

If you want me to vote BBT I need a actual case. Not just a possibility.

[FancyPants]

oh my gosh... i think this entire game starts to make sense if we reread it with a w!rad + w!bulb team in mind. especially to me since i've been in poe with both of them

like reread bulb's day one & just look at the bulb / rad interactions... town-reading each other & defending each other in a very w/w, trying to be subtle way.
day two rad's unwillingness to place his two nominations for who to eliminate -- wanting to wait until bulb chips in first. also -- they probably wanted to both make sure cat wagon gets pushed through & also have at least one of them off the cat wagon.
juice is not nk'ed night two bc he is lock town for many &, crucially, also is one of the few people who townread both bulb & rad during day two.
spartan is not nk'ed night two bc rad & bulb actually don't realize he's pr.

spartan

bulb & rad go into today hoping to have me on their side to vote out spartan.
spartan pr claiming --> poe is reduced to four with both rad & bulb in it is rly bad. still winnable if bulb continues to have me on his side & we vote out w!rad together (bulb would get extra town points for suggesting that rad flips goon -- probably correct), then vote out t!bbt together the next day. & make some play in final three, either with me or against me.
fancy towncasing bbt --> rly bad. now poe is basically three. with rad & bulb both in it -- just game-losing. bulb has to try to keep the poe at four.
now me considering that bulb could likely be wolf --> bulb's strong townread on me suddenly disappears. i don't know if there's any way for bulb & rad to win now. bulb almost certainly pushes me + rad (which fancy was paranoid about) or actually, maybe more likely, me + bbt.

VOTE: Bulb, E-2

Must...resist...urge...to...vote...scum

Playing...against...win...con...

ok i follow bbt's train of thought now

(cool yea i'd be open to voting bulb; will do some rereading of my own to check if rad/bulb team makes sense... im still much more sure that rad is mafia but if bulb is mafia bulb is almost certainly the mafia roleblocker which is rlly tempting)

hmmmmmmmmm.

as for why my read on bulb flipped here are some quotes above; i really don't think there's anything to be "puzzled" about!! basically -- i am still more more certain that rad is mafia. i think a bulb + rad team makes

So Much Sense

though. plus, if bulb is mafia, bulb is likely the roleblocker & i am tempted to try to vote out the roleblocker before the goon (& maybe end the game with no mafia night kills ) )

i was kind of hoping that fancy (bc fancy prefers voting rad to bulb -- which was where i was also at yesterday irl day) in particular would come in today & read what i'd said about bulb & a bulb+rad team & also be convinced enough to vote bulb instead of rad today. but... fancy hasn't even mentioned my case / still wants to vote me or rad. so... idk.

in his responses to me pushing on him, bulb has successfully convinced me that fancy's case for bbt being town isn't super convincing. just that case being not convincing obviously doesn't make bbt mafia though. besides this correction on fancy's case, i don't particularly love bulb's defense against me pushing on him :/ -- like it focuses a lot on things that aren't the main gist of why i'm pushing, which is that im certain rad is wolf (like i posted during my case on rad, im so certain that rad is wolf i would bet the game on it ) ) & there are many pairing interactions between rad & bulb. do those interactions pair rad with bulb more than rad + bbt ignoring each other pair rad & bbt (i've yet to check this btw, i should)? -- my gut says yes

for the moment i still want to keep my vote on bulb. it does feel like, since the moment i switched from rad to bulb, the game has gotten more complicated :/. i'd be willing to vote rad again -- logically there's kind of no reason for me not to since im so certain rad is mafia. but @fancy i would really like you to consider my posts &, if you have, tell me what you think

Sorry flowers I had work today and now I'm about to go drinking I'll give your case the attention it deserves tomorrow, in case time zones don't align that's in about 12 hours.

[FancyPants]

Just to be clear I can skim read on my phone at work but I can't digest long cases.

[FancyPants]

I’ve read flowers posts and I do think they make sense the association between Rad and Bulba is almost a little too obvious but that’s shouldn’t deter me I suppose.

I’m mostly reading Bulba as town due to his tone but Flowers tone also comes across as town, he strikes me as someone who really believes he’s correct.

I still think killing Rad is the safest but it doesn’t really change the game state much whether we do it now or tomorrow and I suppose Rad is more likely to be good based on him giving up earlier today


If town wants Bulba dead I’m willing, it’s quite possible I’ve just been convinced by his mostly emotion driven defense, he hasn’t given me great reason to vote anyone else today other than that people could be scum rather than them actually being scum.

I’m going to count vote counts to make sure I don’t hammer and then I’ll vote bulb.

I think today has run out of steam anyway we are talking in the same circles.

[FancyPants]

Vote Count 3.05

————

Bulbazoor (2):

Rad, flowerdogs

flowerdogs (1):

Juice

BlueBloodedToffee (1):

Bulbazoor

Rad (1):

FancyPants

Not Voting (2):

Spartan117, BlueBloodedToffee

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 3 is August 31 at 07:20 PM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-31 19:20:00)

Oh jeez looking at this vote count makes me so nervous though, am I just voting with the scum?

[FancyPants]

VOTE: bulbazoor

[FancyPants]

VOTE: bulba

We’ll you’re hammered, put me out of my misery?

[FancyPants]

So you maintain youre town?

[FancyPants]

This is going to be a tough game to win…

[FancyPants]

Spartan: FP says anyone who votes BBT is scum therefore Bulba is scum hurr durr.

I still think you're wrong about BBT but I'm sorry we mislynched you.

[FancyPants]

So vote Rad, they NK me tonight and then we mislynch BBT on the final day and lose to flowers? All in?

[FancyPants]

I'm not sure why you would die ahead of Juice though?

Because I won't vote you but juice will.

[FancyPants]

[quote="In post 1717, Rad"

The double saves help explain why fancy's backed off this game so much from his intense day 1.

[/quote]
Yes because scum should feel despondent about their extremely winning position here.

[FancyPants]

So vote Rad, they NK me tonight and then we mislynch BBT on the final day and lose to flowers? All in?

^
that does not sound good

i agree that we should vote rad today though! just thinking a little more out loud about rad's day three (& to make myself feel less paranoid) -- i don't see t!rad reacting like that when he's in such a good position to solve the game; so, probably, he has a partner who he's leaving in a good position to win the game (i thought it was bulb, i guess now it's bbt or fancy)

do actually remind me though -- since the non-rad possibility i have to consider is you two (fancy & bbt) using me to mis-elim rad today & just win! -- why do you think rad is mafia?

Scum slip.

Why wouldn't that top position sound good to town-flowers?

Having trouble looking at the game from a town perspective?

[FancyPants]

Juice has more guts than I do.

I’m not scum. If BBT and Rad are the scum I’ll let them finish this game off, I don’t think that’s going to happen though I think Juice has got flowers.

I can now just be a coward though and await the hammer that may come (although I don’t think it will).

I’ll vote flowers too once it becomes obvious BBT and Rad aren’t the scum team.

[FancyPants]

Just vote flowers - if we are wrong, then so be it. At the end of the day - we lost a ML because we had someone who wanted to play the victim card.

Hmmm yeah you’re right, I can’t see myself changing my mind anyway, at least by voting I know one way or the other.

VOTE: flowers

[FancyPants]

Ok flowers is hammered, scum gloat if you’ve one please? I don’t want to wait until tomorrow.

[FancyPants]

Won*

[FancyPants]

Haha.

Whelp well played BBT and Rad great game, thouroughly deserved the win in my opinion.

As for my fellow townies I apologies for my incompetence, this game has severely knocked my ego which I’m sure is a good thing for my development as a mafia player.

My only regret is that I dragged you all down with me, I’m sorry I did try my best.

Particular apologies to flowers who I never really game an opportunity to, once I’d made up my mind I wasn’t going to be moved, lesson learnt from my part, again sorry.

Bulba good job getting the scum team in the end I actually was fairly sure you were town but in my head it just couldn’t be BBT so if it wasn’t flowers it was you, and flowers did look hella town for obvious reasons now. I’ve learnt my lesson about confirmation bias.

Anyway again well deserved win and sorry for being shit town.

I would like to know what happened night 2 eventually.

[FancyPants]

For what it’s worth this was my first loss as town in about 8 games but if anything I’ve learnt that most scum are far less competent. I’m definitely going to reread this game at some point to try to figure out where we went wrong and what scum did right.

[FancyPants]

N2 Rad was jailkept and so he couldn't do the kill.

We (I?) actually thought that Juice was Cop and so we roleblocked randomly to try and stop Doc protecting Juice.

Ah I see. I just assumed you had the same thoughts I did. Silly. Still you have a great scum game imo BBT, respect. Funnily enough after saying early in the game that I’m susceptible to being pocketed by people who think like me I still walked into it like a dummy. Oh well

[FancyPants]

Yeah thanks Monkey! Great job was a fun game.

[FancyPants]

Yeah, you were spot on Bulba. Really, really good reads, just lacked slightly in the persuasion aspect of play.

Can we have the mafia thread?