Newbie 2101 | Better Call Saul | Game Over

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: esires
Scum detected
weewoo weewoo

[MegAzumarill]

True everyone knows that mafias wear caps

[MegAzumarill]

Been a while since I've seen RQS.
Not unwelcome i suppose

[MegAzumarill]

Lewis isn't the best answer because you can clearly find out his shady deals in game.
He'd be caught day 1.

[MegAzumarill]

Play stardew then smh

[MegAzumarill]

On a semi-serious note I don't like fancypants' entrance

[MegAzumarill]

On a semi-serious note I don't like fancypants' entrance

What's wrong with it, too serious too quickly?

The idea that it's self referential in a way, like here are two players mobing the game early so they are town, where they also do the same thing.

[MegAzumarill]

On a semi-serious note I don't like fancypants' entrance

What's wrong with it, too serious too quickly?

The idea that it's self referential in a way, like here are two players moving the game early so they are town, where they also do the same thing.

EBWOP

[MegAzumarill]

Friendly reminder to avoid the L word.

[MegAzumarill]

Well maybe we can be okay on page 3 too

[MegAzumarill]

Just maybe

you're gonna be the one that saves me

[MegAzumarill]

this is very slightly >rand town

Also what does this mean? I'm not up to date on terminology

Essentially it means it is more likely town than what you would expect.

Since from a town POV 2/3 off other players are town it means its more than 2/3 likely to come from town than from scum.

[MegAzumarill]

Math may not completely check out here but that's the idea.

I don't think I agree with hard townreading furtive here since everything they have done at this point is within their scumrange (or stuff that they would do while playing as scum)

[MegAzumarill]

Can I get this case straight please:
So you're saying I am town reading Furtive and BS2000 because they are moving the game along - and by town reading them I'm essentially doing the "look at me I'm town thing."? Have I got that straight?

Effectively. It's obviously not solid in any sense, but its enough to be a little offputting.

[MegAzumarill]

Can I ask how what's your mafia experience Meg?

Well I've played on site for about a year, played for a bit offsite previously. Have a lot of TOS hours logged on steam.

So I'd say moderately experienced.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't feel strongly about furtive's post either way. It's filler but also obvious filler.

[MegAzumarill]

Can I get this case straight please:
So you're saying I am town reading Furtive and BS2000 because they are moving the game along - and by town reading them I'm essentially doing the "look at me I'm town thing."? Have I got that straight?

Effectively. It's obviously not solid in any sense, but its enough to be a little offputting.

OK fine. Feels extremely thin to me.

What do you think of that furtive post? I'm not accusing just curious.

Post 28 is thin
shocker

In actuality I can see myself making that kind of post as scum a lot more than I might as town, so it's a little bit of projection there.

[MegAzumarill]

Why do you think its a towntell?

[MegAzumarill]

Lol a Newbie game with no true newbs in it now.

@Mod can we get a current votecount?

I think we have 3 on Juice and 3 on esires?

Starting to get townvibes from Meg's exchange with FancyPants. Need to see more from Juice/Bulba/BBT. There's scum somewhere in there.

This is the kind of post that I'd probably make as scum, feels a bit safe. Maybe with your partner in the 3 'sus' players but never follow up on it.

I feel like scum!BS here probably doesn't reverse like this.

As with the sus players sure the post could be distancing of some sort, but it feels like a jump to call it that right now

[MegAzumarill]

Friendly reminder to avoid the L word.

[MegAzumarill]

On a semi-serious note I don't like fancypants' entrance

What's wrong with it, too serious too quickly?

The idea that it's self referential in a way, like here are two players mobing the game early so they are town, where they also do the same thing.

On a reread of this thread (thank goodness it's only three pages), I do not really see what FP said as alignment indicative.

Did I ever claim it was?

[MegAzumarill]

bulba can be town

[MegAzumarill]

Not sure how I feel about bbt but it trends downward.
VOTE: BBT

[MegAzumarill]

Alright, who should I be voting?

You meta checked me? How dare you ruin my entrance!

For real though, this is prob scum

VOTE: BS2000

Elaborate on this read? It feels odd to not share your thoughts about the game spare one read and not even explain that.

[MegAzumarill]

Alright, who should I be voting?

You meta checked me? How dare you ruin my entrance!

For real though, this is prob scum

VOTE: BS2000

Elaborate on this read? It feels odd to not share your thoughts about the game spare one read and not even explain that.

[MegAzumarill]

BS2000 feels less self aware here than I'd expect from scum. They don't seem to care as much about how they look so I'm tempted to take their thoughts as genuine.

Furtiveglance/Peta/Bulba/BS Is where I definitely dont want to elim today

[MegAzumarill]

I'm most happy voting BBT for now.

VOTE: BBT

1.

that's E-1

, call that out when you're voting so no one accidentally hammers

2. why?

juice unvoted

[MegAzumarill]

ok caught up.

@BS, can you explain your town read on Bulba please?

@Peta, what is your opinion of lurkers in newbie games in terms of alignment?

@Juice, please give any reads you may have this game and why.

@Meg can you elaborate on your vote on BBT.

I’m happy with my vote on Juice for now.

I voted them because they entered the game effectively elaborating none on their reads except one read which had reasons I consider reachy. They even agreed it's weak.

Looks like scum trying to get by rather than town because town would want to share any of their strong reads on entry so either BBT isn't sharing for some reason, or didn't have any solid reads.

[MegAzumarill]

Oh I see what you’re getting at, because I seemed salty about the experienced players as well.
I don’t think it’s related.my style is just heavily PoE focused and when there is a bunch of heavy weight scum players in the game PoE becomes much more difficult.

But your point is taken.

Can you say why BBTs comment pings you as scummy? Is it because you think it’s flimsy reasoning?

Flimsy and the only reasoning they've given thus far.

[MegAzumarill]

I voted them because they entered the game effectively elaborating none on their reads except one read which had reasons I consider reachy. They even agreed it's weak.

Looks like scum trying to get by rather than town because town would want to share any of their strong reads on entry so either BBT isn't sharing for some reason, or didn't have any solid reads.

Do you think I would have problems making town reads as scum?

Like, unless you think I'm completely unable to fake town reads on people I know are town if I am scum then this thinking doesn't make any sense.

Additionally, do you always expect 'solid reads' on page 5 from someone who has only just entered the game and had 0 interactions?

Even if someone can fake townreads and do it well, that doesn't mean that they necessarily will every scum game. I also think it gives tou more agency to fencesit if you are scum here. I do see your point though.

I do expect 'something' more than what you gave. It just was weaker than I'd expect. Not even meeding reads just thoughts on the game that weren't there.

[MegAzumarill]

ok caught up.

@BS, can you explain your town read on Bulba please?

@Peta, what is your opinion of lurkers in newbie games in terms of alignment?

@Juice, please give any reads you may have this game and why.

@Meg can you elaborate on your vote on BBT.

I’m happy with my vote on Juice for now.

i'm going to be honest though: shotgunning a bunch of questions to give the appearance of doing things is the pingiest post in this game so far. does fancypants care about this stuff or is he just sayign things? what's the goal of all these when they're so all over the place?

To be fair they are doing more than just shoot questions in the surrounding posts. I think you are taking this post ooc here.

[MegAzumarill]

To me it seems like a strange reach

I mean, I think you guys are reaching on scum reading BBTs reachy read. How many layers are we going to take this.

Point is I see a town thought process.

Idk that's a reach right there.

[MegAzumarill]

Read up properly, some early game thoughts;

I don't think I agree with hard townreading furtive here since everything they have done at this point is within their scumrange (or stuff that they would do while playing as scum)

Why are you attempting to discredit town reads?

I didn't agree with the assessment and stated why. I don't see the problem?

Starting to get townvibes from Meg's exchange with FancyPants. Need to see more from Juice/Bulba/BBT. There's scum somewhere in there.

Talk about the townvibes from Meg? Also, why are you confident there is scum in Juice/Bulba/BBT exactly?

I feel like scum!BS here probably doesn't reverse like this.

What did BS reverse? Are you implying he was scum reading you at some point?

They fairly clearly were? There's been a big discussion about it.

OK I have a slight scumread on BS2000 now. Post 51 is a little sus; first he casts aspersions on petapan, then puts him in the townlean category. I get a weird wishy washy vibe from that whole post.

UNVOTE: VOTE: BS2000

You're careful with your wording in this post, little things like this catch my attention. 'Slight' scum read, 'little' sus, softly, softly scum read so as to not draw too much attention. I don't see the wishy-washyness in this post and I don't know why that makes it scummy? Elaborate?

On a reread of this thread (thank goodness it's only three pages), I do not really see what FP said as alignment indicative.

Did I ever claim it was?

This is bad from Meg, playing semantics. You clearly said you didn't like Fancy's entrance, that naturally implies that you think it could be from scum. If it doesn't, you need to be clear with your wording, and even clearer with your reads, to avoid confusion.

* Clearly states something other than a scumread.
Someone thinks it is a scumread despite of what the post says.
I correct them.

Oh you should have been more specific

from a third party to this interaction.

Bruh

High level of activity and scumhunting.

Did you think my vote was serious or a reaction test?

i thought it was serious for basically the reasoning you gave

Moreso I'm OK with being the first wagon.

this is very slightly >rand town

Why does being okay with being lynched make someone town? I would never accept a lynch on me as we have MLs that I would rather use to lynch scum.

didn't say they were okay with being eliminated (that's another theory discussion altogether), said they were okay with being wagoned. can be feigned nonchalance but i'm choosing to take the easy answer for now

Yeah I realize it wasn't the most impressive or useful entry into the game but like I said in a prior post, I was at a con over the weekend, but still wanted to participate in the game. Rush-posting from a phone between sessions is less than ideal but hopefully I cleared up what I meant.

@furtiveglance: your top 2 scumreads? Top 2 townreads?

Firstly, why does high activity = town? Secondly, can you show me the scum hunting Meg has done?

Second, this is something scum do a lot. I'm referencing your statement regarding your entrance into the game for clarity; the whole 'Yeah I know my entrance wasn't great but I was so busy and just wanted to contribute something to the game because I'm town. 'Rush' posting implies you didn't think much and so tries to excuse what you yourself consider bad posting.

meg, furtive, and fancypants all seem fine enough in a slightly towny way for now. kind of like esires for that same reason and bulbazoor's entry is okay

Talk to me about Meg and Esires

[MegAzumarill]

Wont be able to do much more tonight

[MegAzumarill]

You're careful with your wording in this post, little things like this catch my attention. 'Slight' scum read, 'little' sus, softly, softly scum read so as to not draw too much attention. I don't see the wishy-washyness in this post and I don't know why that makes it scummy? Elaborate?

Ultimately it was a slight read that was a little sus. Early read - original post explains my rationale.

Second, this is something scum do a lot. I'm referencing your statement regarding your entrance into the game for clarity; the whole 'Yeah I know my entrance wasn't great but I was so busy and just wanted to contribute something to the game because I'm town. 'Rush' posting implies you didn't think much and so tries to excuse what you yourself consider bad posting.

Welp, it was true.

I do tend to be partial to people with higher activity in a game so I cannot fault you for having that mindset. However, esires, I do see that you did question me on not having any reasoning for a vote. This was page six.

Yeah my problem wasn't that you made an RVS, it was that you tried to justify it with flimsy logic.

peta is squeaking like scum. if they were town, they would of just kept their vote on me,

peta is my most solid townread and this is a pretty crap post from Juice. Still feels more like laziness than scum though.

Can you please explain why you’d be Ok with a BBT lynch?

I thought their post about BS commenting on no newbs was a serious stretch that could either be distancing or just a regular old scum stretch to justify suspicion. And BS's response in post 123 made me feel even more like it was distancing.

Feel better about this now:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

Besides BBT, who do you scumread?

[MegAzumarill]

UNVOTE:

Read quickly through, the caterpillar and fancy pants look town, the bbt wagon looks really inorganic and I don't know why peta is a consensus tow read.

Why do you think it is inorganic?

Hello! I skimmed through the game before deciding to replace in so I have some initial thoughts from that. I plan on rereading everything tonight since it's only 10 pages. Initial thoughts here have peta and meg at town, esires town lean, furtive and fancy at null, bulba and bbt scum lean, bs2000 at scum. I'll try to clarify those reads better later when I have a chance to sit at my comp and prepare some notes.

Interested if these change at all. If they do can you state what you were thinking beforehand?

[MegAzumarill]

@meg, I get that the bbt wagon came off off a shit post, but I don't think it's been the worst post this game! I don't think it's like, lock scum, which the wagon suggests.

@peta, Tell about ym read on you? I just don't see lock!town in the way other people seem to. I don't think you are scummy, just not town. I don't think I implied it's due to activity, the read on you from others, as hard as furtive thinks but I do think it's part of it.

@bs, bulb was a weird one to read because his posts were kind of all over the place. I have meg as nully.

Well do you think BBT is town?

[MegAzumarill]

@meg, I get that the bbt wagon came off off a shit post, but

I don't think it's been the worst post this game!

I don't think it's like, lock scum, which the wagon suggests.

@peta, Tell about ym read on you? I just don't see lock!town in the way other people seem to. I don't think you are scummy, just not town. I don't think I implied it's due to activity, the read on you from others, as hard as furtive thinks but I do think it's part of it.

@bs, bulb was a weird one to read because his posts were kind of all over the place. I have meg as nully.

if you think there are worse posts why ave you not called them out, that seems weird

if the wagon is inorganic who are you pointing to as a culprit

@Bella this is what they want you to answer

[MegAzumarill]

Vote Count 1.06

————

BlueBloodedToffee (4):

MegAzumarill, BS2000, furtiveglance, esires

[E-1]

esires (3):

Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, petapan

Juice (1):

FancyPants

Not Voting (1):

Rad

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is August 30 at 03:10 AM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-09-01 03:10:00)

[MegAzumarill]

We have 2 days

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Esires
Bye Felicia

[MegAzumarill]

zzzz other people can react then esires
VOTE: BBt [/v)

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: BBT

[MegAzumarill]

zzzz other people can react then esires
VOTE: BBt [/v)

ye but what would that tell you? "omg why hammer" is a stock reaction from both town and mafia in that instance

Someone could've done something interesting at least.

or funny

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: furtiveglance

I'll do some explaining tomorrow but I kind of want to vote here for now.

[MegAzumarill]

Anyway, aside from that, I had some thoughts on the game.

I'm finding it hard to articulate my thoughts on specific players and how I'm reading them based on posts, I feel it's too subjective. Instead, I'm going to make 2 assumptions (dangerous I know): 1) Mafia don't vote their partner apart from RVS and 2) Mafia don't hard townread their partner. I know these have exceptions sometimes but I'm going to use these 2 assumptions to eliminate some pairs and see what that leaves. I'll also just say if I think an interaction doesn't look scum/scum. If I don't like the results, I'll just ignore them.

Spoiler:

Posts 7, 8 and 10 for instance, aren't serious votes. So I don't see why mafia wouldn't RVS vote their partner, I'm not counting these votes.

Post 14 is something a mafia might ask their partner, I won't rule this possibility out.

15 from Fancypants is different, not the vote which I don't consider unpaired but the 2 reads which I do. So I'm going to rule out BS/Fancypants.

Posts 18 and 19 surely indicate that esires/Fancypants is not the mafia team.

I think 28 could be paired as there was no vote backing it up, and see no reason to rule out Fancypants/Meg.

In 39, Bellaphant (formerly Bulbazoor) puts esires at E-2 quite early on. Not paired in my eyes. There's also 76 in which Bulbazoor shades esires.

Based on 42 and 78, I don't think it's BS/esires. Esires also puts a second vote on Rad (formerly Juice) - not the mafia team.

51 indicates that BS/Meg is out.

Fancypants put Rad (Juice) at E-2 in 54. Unpaired.

I'd consider 61 unlikely to come from a partner. No more Fancypants/Meg then.

I think 79 and 108 clear Bellaphant (Bulbazoor)/Meg.

200 indicates Bellaphant (Bulbazoor)/BS200 is not the team.

After this I didn't see much else that I thought wasn't partner indicative - with regards to people's end of day scumpools or townreads I think mafia are more likely to put false associatives in there so I don't pay it as much heed. Just to recap then, here are the pairs I've ruled out:

Bellaphant/BS200
Bellaphant/Esires
Bellaphant/MegAzumarill
BS200/Fancypants
BS200/Esires
BS200/MegAzumarill
Esires/Fancypants
Esires/Rad
Fancypants/MegAzumarill
Fancypants/Rad

Or, in a different format:
Bellaphant pairs with Fancypants or Rad
BS200 pairs with Rad
Esires pairs with MegAzumarill
Fancypants pairs with Bellaphant
MegAzumarill pairs with Esires or Rad
Rad pairs with Bellaphant, BS200 or MegAzumarill

Practical conclusions to draw: Rad has partner equity with the most players.

Personally, I think it's probably Bellaphant with Rad, which also happens to be the 2 replacements. If both mafia did just randomly replace out then this game is pretty scuffed.

This feels divorced from context somewhat. The conclusion that it should be the slot that has had the least interaction in the game (through no fault of their own) is scum because they have the least non partnered actions with people isn't a great conclusion here.

[MegAzumarill]

repp me out. i refuse to play with Bulba

Did Juice and Bulbazoor argue before this? If not, why did Juice namedrop Bulbazoor? Can't believe I've just noticed this.

It involves another finished newbie game we were all in.

I'll post the link when I can get on something that isn't a phone.

Its the GTA themed newbie though. Nothing relevant really Bulba just self hammered as town and Juice was annoyed.

Fancy since you were in the other game, knowing how Bulba's play there + self hammer led to Juice's outburst there followed by a rep out here, do you see that reaction coming from scum!Juice here? During my initial read before repping in I read it as a hard town response. I can see a case for Bulba/Juice scum team but felt like town!Juice was significantly more likely to have that reaction.

I don't think this is a valid point to use to sort either slot.

[MegAzumarill]

Why don't you find some telling interactions in the 200 to 300 range? Tell me what I missed or declined to comment on.

No thanks. I think your approach is bad and wouldn't want to continue it. My pointing this out was the fact that you supposedly felt your approach was good yet you stopped doing it very early and drew your conclusions based on only the first 100 posts were valid enough to push a vote on me.

The bolded line is quite sinister to me. You're saying "I lean towards disagreeing" i.e. you don't think I'm scum using pre-flip associatives to push you but "peta's more experienced" i.e. petapan definitely would say that. In this way, you're putting words in a dead town's mouth, and appealing to authority by outsourcing the responsibility of calling me mafia to someone we all know is town. This is all highly irregular and deeply offensive to myself and petapan equally.

Nah I'm not claiming peta would find you to be scum here. I'm pointing out that I disagree with his take on BS2000 and am curious because I feel like you're doing the opposite of what peta believed was townie of BS2000. I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out what a confirmed dead townie believed and even use it as a reference for building my own read, especially when they're likely to be the better player. I also doubt his read on this type of thing would be so black and white as to label BS2000 definitely town for it and you definitely scum for it.

Finally, if your mini thought-progression on me was meant to look natural (ending with "much less townie now"), you need to try harder than that. This entire post is not written for me, or for your own organisation of thoughts, it's written for town who may be misled into voting for me. This is evidenced by your sneaky implication that petapan would want me gone, based on their theoretical post regarding a different player.

Yeah my views on you have changed given more thought on it. 331 isn't some auto townie post after some additional thought. I still don't know if I find you to be more scummy or less from your 331. I'm thinking about it, and also throwing my thoughts out there for others to agree or disagree on. If you think my progression has been unnatural, feel free to keep that vote on me. If you're town, consider whether this is scum!Rad presenting things that can potentially get furtive mislimmed or town!Rad openly discussing thoughts with town to get other opinions on an unknown alignment furtive.

Make no mistake, if you do end up killing me, my blood is on your hands (as well as others' of course). Why don't you acknowledge that these are your thoughts and wishes, and yours alone?

Oh so very dramatic of you. But town!furtive can be very dramatic so ehhh. Let's get something straight furtive, I can openly lean on dead town's posts and still be town.

This post leaves a bad taste in my mouth, although I'm not quite sure why atm.

[MegAzumarill]

I think it's pretty clear that when someone "doesn't like an entrance" it's implied that that person is at least a little scummy. I think his stance here that he never claimed it was is a little dishonest.

I said what I said and I meant what I meant, and an Azumarill's word is 100 percent.

This is bad from Meg, playing semantics. You clearly said you didn't like Fancy's entrance, that naturally implies that you think it could be from scum. If it doesn't, you need to be clear with your wording, and even clearer with your reads, to avoid confusion.

* Clearly states something other than a scumread.
Someone thinks it is a scumread despite of what the post says.
I correct them.
Oh you should have been more specific from a third party to this interaction.

Bruh

But seriously calling someone dishonest because

you

misinterpreted the post is both unfair and dishonest.

I'll get on with writing up my furtive case now

[MegAzumarill]

I'm most happy voting BBT for now.

VOTE: BBT

This vote strikes me as the worst vote on BBT, no shame on being on a town wagon but it's more the manner, same goes for Megazumaril here:

Not sure how I feel about bbt but it trends downward.
VOTE: BBT

BS2000 and Peta also vote and scumread BBT but it's justified.

Again I don't scumread people for being on town wagons, but it's the

manner

of the hop that concerns me.

I'm not sure what manner you are referring to here.

[MegAzumarill]

Spoiler:

VOTE: MegAzumarill

i can probably guess why you're doing this but explain it anyway?

It was actually a serious vote rather than plainly RTing, I left it naked to see what the reaction would be. Meg already felt different from Mewbie 2092 in this game, more jokey in a way.

This strikes me as an odd way to try and approach this. If you especially since you had already shown concern for the lack of posting trying to move the game forward by posting a serious vote not labelled as such strikes me as counterintuitive.

Lol a Newbie game with no true newbs in it now.

@Mod can we get a current votecount?

I think we have 3 on Juice and 3 on esires?

Starting to get townvibes from Meg's exchange with FancyPants. Need to see more from Juice/Bulba/BBT. There's scum somewhere in there.

This is the kind of post that I'd probably make as scum, feels a bit safe. Maybe with your partner in the 3 'sus' players but never follow up on it.

This stirs the pot and keeps attention away from furtive, while not prompting any kind of interaction between BS and furtive. It's weak and directionless and doesn't have the intent to decipher alignment.

Hi guys, any questions for me?

The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive. In this post as well as another addressing Rad, the only times furtive has inquired of another, have been in ways so that either are about furtive, or his thoughts. I see no intent in actually solving or trying to determine alignment through any form of inquiry.

Alright.

BS made a post saying something along the lines of 'A newbie game with no newbies in' and this came across to me like scum complaining that they have no newbies and as such are at a disadvantage.

I don't think this is towny Rad. I feel like this is one of those votes that just happens to be mafia and we lucked out on this one.

Once again, even when pushing a scumread instead of putting an argument together instead furtiveglance lashes himself onto an observation. They don't put together cases that could be analysed or scumreads that can be challenged. They work in vague weak arguments while being concerned about their own slot more than the game around them.

Overall furtiveglance's play day 1 has read as both overinformed through lack of inquisition, and unreasoned, through lack of evidence. It reads like scum making filler to not go over the edge for lurking and looking just invested enough to get by.

Furtive, could you explain your thought processes on your reads over the course of day 1? (as well as currently)

[MegAzumarill]

Just a quick pagetop fyi - my reads are changing.

You stole my pagetop

therefore you confscum


gottem

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Esires
Bye Felicia

@Meg

Can you explain this? Peta seems to think it was a reaction test, can you confirm this and if so who was the reaction test aimed at?

I wanted to see how people would react just in general, no real thought behind it just saw the oppurtunity

[MegAzumarill]

Spoiler:

VOTE: MegAzumarill

i can probably guess why you're doing this but explain it anyway?

It was actually a serious vote rather than plainly RTing, I left it naked to see what the reaction would be. Meg already felt different from Mewbie 2092 in this game, more jokey in a way.

This strikes me as an odd way to try and approach this. If you especially since you had already shown concern for the lack of posting trying to move the game forward by posting a serious vote not labelled as such strikes me as counterintuitive.

Lol a Newbie game with no true newbs in it now.

@Mod can we get a current votecount?

I think we have 3 on Juice and 3 on esires?

Starting to get townvibes from Meg's exchange with FancyPants. Need to see more from Juice/Bulba/BBT. There's scum somewhere in there.

This is the kind of post that I'd probably make as scum, feels a bit safe. Maybe with your partner in the 3 'sus' players but never follow up on it.

This stirs the pot and keeps attention away from furtive, while not prompting any kind of interaction between BS and furtive. It's weak and directionless and doesn't have the intent to decipher alignment.

Hi guys, any questions for me?

The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive. In this post as well as another addressing Rad, the only times furtive has inquired of another, have been in ways so that either are about furtive, or his thoughts. I see no intent in actually solving or trying to determine alignment through any form of inquiry.

Alright.

BS made a post saying something along the lines of 'A newbie game with no newbies in' and this came across to me like scum complaining that they have no newbies and as such are at a disadvantage.

I don't think this is towny Rad. I feel like this is one of those votes that just happens to be mafia and we lucked out on this one.

Once again, even when pushing a scumread instead of putting an argument together instead furtiveglance lashes himself onto an observation. They don't put together cases that could be analysed or scumreads that can be challenged. They work in vague weak arguments while being concerned about their own slot more than the game around them.

Overall furtiveglance's play day 1 has read as both overinformed through lack of inquisition, and unreasoned, through lack of evidence. It reads like scum making filler to not go over the edge for lurking and looking just invested enough to get by.

Furtive, could you explain your thought processes on your reads over the course of day 1? (as well as currently)

"The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive". Do you mean I only respond when defending myself? That hasn't been the case. I don't feel I've really been attacked much this game, the votes on me are usually silent apart from this post. As for "being concerned about their own slot", I'm more interested and likely to respond to posts about me. I think that's human nature, and definitely how I play. If I see some other players arguing I usually won't get involved, or I won't find it interesting until a later point (or never).

My past reads have been explained enough for me, if you want more explanation be more specific. As for my current reads, I need more time to work out what they are.

I defined what I was talking about as being not just being concerned with tour own slot, but a lack of concern with other slots. It's town's nature to try to figure out other's slots, and not scum's.

Stating a read isn't explaining it. Saying its because of a post and leaving it at that is also not explaining it.

[MegAzumarill]

repp me out. i refuse to play with Bulba

Did Juice and Bulbazoor argue before this? If not, why did Juice namedrop Bulbazoor? Can't believe I've just noticed this.

It involves another finished newbie game we were all in.

I'll post the link when I can get on something that isn't a phone.

Its the GTA themed newbie though. Nothing relevant really Bulba just self hammered as town and Juice was annoyed.

Fancy since you were in the other game, knowing how Bulba's play there + self hammer led to Juice's outburst there followed by a rep out here, do you see that reaction coming from scum!Juice here? During my initial read before repping in I read it as a hard town response. I can see a case for Bulba/Juice scum team but felt like town!Juice was significantly more likely to have that reaction.

I'm kinda more torn on it than you are, but I do think it was townie.
My other possible thought was that it was an excuse to not play a scum game.

Either way it's angelshooting so I wouldn't get into it at this point.

[MegAzumarill]

331 from Furtive, is the busy work where he pairs people. I kinda like that kind of effort post but I don't agree with the assumptions and it's not really the "good" kind of effort post that gets us closer to scum IMO.

Do you just think "throw it all out because scum might bus/shade their partner/whatever"? Have you actually read my individual points? I think there's some decent stuff in there.

There's a lot different from a vote on a partner to a bus on a partner is where some error lies in that argument.
Like yes, scum is at risk to autoloss if they bus in this setup, it's heavily discouraged. But your argument assumes scum never crossvote even when they think (or even know) it won't jeopardize their ally.

Particularly scum under pressure vote their partners significantly more than would be expected.

[MegAzumarill]

Spoiler:

VOTE: MegAzumarill

i can probably guess why you're doing this but explain it anyway?

It was actually a serious vote rather than plainly RTing, I left it naked to see what the reaction would be. Meg already felt different from Mewbie 2092 in this game, more jokey in a way.

This strikes me as an odd way to try and approach this. If you especially since you had already shown concern for the lack of posting trying to move the game forward by posting a serious vote not labelled as such strikes me as counterintuitive.

Lol a Newbie game with no true newbs in it now.

@Mod can we get a current votecount?

I think we have 3 on Juice and 3 on esires?

Starting to get townvibes from Meg's exchange with FancyPants. Need to see more from Juice/Bulba/BBT. There's scum somewhere in there.

This is the kind of post that I'd probably make as scum, feels a bit safe. Maybe with your partner in the 3 'sus' players but never follow up on it.

This stirs the pot and keeps attention away from furtive, while not prompting any kind of interaction between BS and furtive. It's weak and directionless and doesn't have the intent to decipher alignment.

Hi guys, any questions for me?

The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive. In this post as well as another addressing Rad, the only times furtive has inquired of another, have been in ways so that either are about furtive, or his thoughts. I see no intent in actually solving or trying to determine alignment through any form of inquiry.

Alright.

BS made a post saying something along the lines of 'A newbie game with no newbies in' and this came across to me like scum complaining that they have no newbies and as such are at a disadvantage.

I don't think this is towny Rad. I feel like this is one of those votes that just happens to be mafia and we lucked out on this one.

Once again, even when pushing a scumread instead of putting an argument together instead furtiveglance lashes himself onto an observation. They don't put together cases that could be analysed or scumreads that can be challenged. They work in vague weak arguments while being concerned about their own slot more than the game around them.

Overall furtiveglance's play day 1 has read as both overinformed through lack of inquisition, and unreasoned, through lack of evidence. It reads like scum making filler to not go over the edge for lurking and looking just invested enough to get by.

Furtive, could you explain your thought processes on your reads over the course of day 1? (as well as currently)

"The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive". Do you mean I only respond when defending myself? That hasn't been the case. I don't feel I've really been attacked much this game, the votes on me are usually silent apart from this post. As for "being concerned about their own slot", I'm more interested and likely to respond to posts about me. I think that's human nature, and definitely how I play. If I see some other players arguing I usually won't get involved, or I won't find it interesting until a later point (or never).

My past reads have been explained enough for me, if you want more explanation be more specific. As for my current reads, I need more time to work out what they are.

I defined what I was talking about as being not just being concerned with tour own slot, but a lack of concern with other slots. It's town's nature to try to figure out other's slots, and not scum's.

Stating a read isn't explaining it. Saying its because of a post and leaving it at that is also not explaining it.

If you think "it's because of a post" isn't good enough, you're gonna be left frustrated with literally every player on this website in every game. If you really want to know more of my thoughts, ask about a specific player or a specific post. Otherwise, you have no grounds to call me uncommunicative because I don't want to run down literally all of my thoughts so far this game and write an essay about it for your convenience.

Saying just because of a post isn't enough. It just isn't. Talking about why that post makes you think that way is what I'm looking for, and you haven't provided

[MegAzumarill]

I have to give examples of something I haven't seen it anywhere within day 1 for you? Starting day 2 the dynamic around you have shifted which reflects in your play.

If you don't want to reelaborate on your day 1 reads that's fine.
If you want to claim you haven't sorted your current reads and therefore can't show your thought processes that is also fine.
These things just would help plead you not being scum looking at the surface level for your reads to try and pass by.

And yes, I am presenting my case of why you are scum to others rather than you. You already know if I'm right or wrong.

[MegAzumarill]

And on the Megazumaril case, I don't hate it but it basically boils down to FG has coasted until recently, I basically agree with the sentiment but the same could be said of Meg themselves or me.
I think it's totally fair for FG to want you to clarify with specific posts who find egregious.

I think there's distinctly different manners of content between the three of us which is my point that furitve's manner lines up eerily too close to scum motives.

[MegAzumarill]

Additionally, I don't think giving specific posts is particularly conducive here since scum!furtive and town!furtive respond to it in the same way here, and particular posts aren't my gripe.

My problem is the idea that there's no evidence of the reasoning in the moment when it was most beneficial to scum!furtive for there not to be.

[MegAzumarill]

I suppose it was an unfair call then to ask about past reads in my original case. I suppose a better call would be to ask why they didn't provide them at the time.

[MegAzumarill]

Them being the evidence and reasonings, rather than the reads themselves.

[MegAzumarill]

OK fully caught up, sorry for making the last few pages so confusing but people started posting while I was spewing.

@Furtive
I'm not sure I agree that 331 has good insight, I have to agree that the assumptions underlying are flawed.

I like this post a lot better:

I thought I'd do some more 'busy work' since the last post went down really well

I'll do some dreaded 'VCA' (or just checking out everyone's reasons for voting BBT).

Spoiler:

First one is on Crabulous, whom BBT replaced, from Rad (Juice) in 10. This seems to be an 'RVS' vote as it is accompanied by a 'lol'. Not much to read into here.

Petapan

then gets on BBT in 89. 90 would imply that petapan voted someone outside of their townreads (perhaps Meg, Esires and me at the time).

MegAzumarill is the 3rd voter of BBT in 109, citing BBT voting BS200 without explanation in 100.

PEDIT:
I'll comment on the Megazumaril case, I don't hate it but tl:dr it's basically just that FG has done some coasting up until recently, which I kinda agree with but doesn't actually say much I've done similar and so has Meg themselves.

It's at this point (113) that petapan moves to BS200, and BBT is back on 2 votes (Rad (Juice), MegAzumarill).

BS200 puts BBT back up to 3 votes in 123, seemingly retaliating to BBT criticising their "no newbies" comment.
My own take on this is that mafia probably wouldn't feel salty about there being no newbies in a game, and also that the kind of player who would notice this and mention it would probably do so as town or as mafia. As for the omgus, what sticks out to me is the votecount at the time (3 each for BS200 and BBT). As soon as BS200 became the highest wagon they made it even. I can see a survivalist mentality behind that, especially given the lack of a scumread on BBT beforehand. They had only sussed Meg and Petapan previously, voting Meg in RVS and then being ok with it later.

The next development is Juice unvoting BBT in 128. This is unexplained.

I vote BBT in 138 - E-2.

Esires puts BBT at E-1 in 212. The justification given is this infamous "no newbies" remark (66 from BS200) which BBT scumreads in 114. Esires calls it 'a stretch', that could even be 'distancing'. Personally, I don't think I'd consider bussing between BBT and BS200 so early on in the game, so it's surprising that Esires is seriously considering this.

Meg briefly unvotes BBT to vote Esires before being told by petapan that Esires is inactive. Meg then gets back on BBT (289).

Petapan

hammers in 299.

Conclusion: clearing Petapan and myself, BS200, Esires and Meg ended the day on BBT.

I'd say Meg's reasoning in 109 is fair enough,

so if there's scum on the wagon I'd say BS200.

Except I disagree with the bolded bit above, why do you think that vote in 109 was fair enough?

My favourite vote is actually VOTE: Esires

Although I'm not super sold on any reads thus far, superficially from town to scum my reads go something like:
Bellaphant
Rad
BS2000
furtiveglance
MegAzumarill
esires

But I'm not super confident, kinda a hard game in that I usually have 2 or 3 VERY strong town reads at this point and I don't really.

Anyone wanna argue with me about my order?

Bella/Rad are fairly middle of the road for me right now. Why put them so high up?

[MegAzumarill]

Moreso on bella than rad

[MegAzumarill]

@meg, did I play with an alt of yours recently Ish or am I confused? Any way, do you have any questions for me?

Deputy Cultists as Beat is the last time we played together IIRC

[MegAzumarill]

Could you talk more about who you townread and why?

[MegAzumarill]

well that's a decent bit that's happened and I'm low on time/energy tonight so I'll get back to this in the morning

[MegAzumarill]

Here it is then, the big readslist. I'll even colour code it, with me in

green

to try to trick you guys into townreading me(!) and it's town at the top in the usual way.

Fancypants

:

Spoiler:

Voting: Esires (RVS, 15), Rad (Juice) (probably for lurking, 54), Esires (POE, 'not caring' about voting

scum

, 284), Esires (402)

Reads: BS200

town

- 15, 153, 277, 372,

Furtive

town

- 15, then

scum

in 277, then

town

in 354, then

scum

in 372, then

town

in 429,

BBT

town

- 153, 178, 185, 277, Esires

town

- 153, then

scum

in 277, 284, 301, 372, 402, Bella (Bulba)

town

- 277, then scum in 293, 298, back to town in 365, 370, 372, Rad

town

- 354, 402, Meg

town

- 61, then

scum

in 363, 372, 402.

Thoughts: Heir to

Petapan

's throne, almost unpushable

town

. I stake my reputation (not much of a reputation to lose!) on this user being

town

. They have put out so much agenda-free analysis this game, it's really commendable. All of the towntells are here - scumhunting, moving the game forward, desire to understand other players, everything. A very open player. I will never vote here.

BS200

('s replacement):

Spoiler:

Voting: Meg (RVS, 8), BBT ('no newbies' gate, 123)

Reads: Meg

scum

- 51, then Meg

town

- 66, 123, 152, 200,

Petapan

town

- 51, then

Petapan

'

performative

' - 87, '

confusing

' - 123,

BBT

scum

- 123, 152.

Thoughts: I was reading 200 when I realised BS200 was

town

. How poetic. I was about to call them

scum

for their nonsensical progressions on

Petapan

and Meg, and strange omgus on BBT. But

scum

doesn't usually set up a push on a player and then change on a dime, not in my experience. I want to say more but that's it for me. There's no agenda to their play. Tonally as well, their thoughts look unguarded and natural. I'll have to keep this one short.

Esires

(' replacement):

Spoiler:

Voting:

Petapan

(MACTEPOK) (RVS, 11), Rad (Juice) (get a wagon rolling, 42) BS200 (contradictory read on

Petapan

, 78),

BBT

(no newbies gate, stretch or distancing, 212)

Reads: BS200

scum

- 78, 129, 212, 235, Meg

town

- 78, Fancy

town

- 78,

BBT

scum

- 129, 149, 212, Bella (Bulba)

scum

- 129,

Petapan

town

- 149, 212

Thoughts: I'm worried that my ability to honestly read this slot has been hamstrung by people suggesting us as the

mafia

team, which makes me illogically protective by instinct. Much was made of 17's "If it's me, it's me". To me this reads more

town

than

scum

, but not by much. "Slightly more than rand

town

" is what

Petapan

said. I find that I keep coming back to this vote on

BBT

, with the suggestion of them being paired with BS200. This read is quite bizarre, and frankly terrible in hindsight. If you take into account the burgeoning suspicion on Esires at the time that he puts a nail in BBT's coffin, it does look

scummy

. However, the side of the fence I'm landing on is that this 'distancing' justification is something

town

thinks about, and perhaps too strange to come from

mafia

.

Rad

(formerly Juice):

Spoiler:

Voting: Crabulous (RVS, 10),

Petapan

(Omgus, squeaking like scum (!), 146)

Reads:

Petapan

scum

- 146, then

town

in 237, 253, 258. Actually just read 237 and 253, it's pretty much this: 'peta and meg at town, esires

town lean

, furtive and fancy at

null

, bulba and bbt

scum lean

, bs2000 at

scum

'. 258 is the same with Bella (Bulba) and Fancy

down

.

Thoughts: I was deceived by Rad's effort posting in Newbie 2097, but this game does feel like a different Rad - as Fancypants said in 354. It feels like Rad is really thinking hard about the game. Having said that, probably the weakest of my townreads, and I'd like to see where his vote lands.

Bellaphant

(formerly Bulbazoor (formerly Yericky(!)))

Spoiler:

Voting: Bulba votes Esires (RVS, 39), Bella votes

Furtive

(Bad vote on

BBT

, not sussing Esires, 'busy work'(?), 337)

Reads: Bulba calls

Petapan

town

- 39, 103, 106, 124, Bella says

Petapan

null

- 241, Bulba calls

Furtive

scum

- 73, 85, 86, Bella agrees - 276, 322, 337, Bulba calls

BBT

scum

- 121, 147, Bella has

BBT

null

- 283, Bulba

does not townread

Meg - 194, Bellaphant agrees - 276, Bella calls BS200 and Fancy

town

- 241, Bella

does not scumread

Esires - 322 - but

would elim

Esires - 357.

Thoughts: There are 2 reasons that I suspect this slot. The first is that they heavily townread the Night 1 kill,

Petapan

. They weren't the only player to do so but did so quite effusively and also immediately (

Petapan

had only posted 4 times before 39). The second reason is that Bella's reads line up with Bulba's in the main. Not the

townreads

(townread, really - Bulba only gave

Petapan

town status), but the

scumreads

(or, more precisely, the preferred eliminations). Bulba never voted after RVS but threatened

BBT

with a vote in 173. On replacing in, Bella found the

BBT

wagon 'inorganic' yet was still 'fine with' the vote, citing the promise of 'a ton of info from the flip'. Bella also follows up Bulba's prolonged suspicion of

me

. Now with the privilege of knowing my own alignment, the question I have to ask myself is: Was I really so scummy that 2 different

town

players (sharing a slot) had me as a strong

scumread

? I think the answer is that it's definitely possible. I wasn't very active or engaged for a time, partly busy IRL. And the fact that several players are

scumreading

me

at present shows that I haven't played an objectively

towny

game. But the chances of Bella's reads matching Bulba's so closely is something I can't quite get over. What I'm considering is that these voting preferences are decided by the necessity of avoiding a partner rather than the earnest guess at a

mafia

.

MegAzumarill

:

Spoiler:

Voting: Esires (RVS, 7),

BBT

(unexplained vote on BS200, 109), Esires (reaction test (?) (see 388), 285),

BBT

(289),

Furtive

(313, explained in 376)

Reads: Bella (Bulba)

town

- 108, 136,

BBT

scum

- 109, 111, BS200

town

- 136,

Petapan

town

- 136,

Furtive

town

- 136, then

scum

in 313, 376

Thoughts: For one of the highest posters, Meg's ISO is shockingly empty. You can count the posts in which they share their own thoughts on other players on the fingers of one hand. All they do is ask questions of other players.

Town

certainly doesn't usually play like this. I view their current push on me as opportunistic, agenda-driven and I seem to be the only player in the game they like to talk about at the moment. I would be very surprised if Meg was

town

this game. Very surprised indeed.

Conclusion: I wAs RiGhT tHe FiRsT tImE. I said my reads were changing earlier, and they WERE, but they changed back.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

You say town doesn't ask a lot of questions as I have, why do you think that town doesn't ask questions?

[MegAzumarill]

Alright let's look at Meg's scum case on Furtive.

This strikes me as an odd way to try and approach this. If you especially since you had already shown concern for the lack of posting trying to move the game forward by posting a serious vote not labelled as such strikes me as counterintuitive.

Alright but town can be odd and do silly things that we don't necessarily understand or agree with. Are you sure this is scummy?

This stirs the pot and keeps attention away from furtive, while not prompting any kind of interaction between BS and furtive. It's weak and directionless and doesn't have the intent to decipher alignment.

Nah I agree with Furtive in 68 and I think it was worth him pointing out.

The only times furtive has ever prompted a response are entirely defensive. In this post as well as another addressing Rad, the only times furtive has inquired of another, have been in ways so that either are about furtive, or his thoughts. I see no intent in actually solving or trying to determine alignment through any form of inquiry.

That's a bold claim about Furtive's play at that stage (189) that I'll have to read back over to confirm/deny.

Once again, even when pushing a scumread instead of putting an argument together instead furtiveglance lashes himself onto an observation. They don't put together cases that could be analysed or scumreads that can be challenged. They work in vague weak arguments while being concerned about their own slot more than the game around them.

Couple things here.

First, I don't think it's necessarily scummy to agree with a conclusion others have already made. You don't have to just push your own case to be townie. Plenty of town can just agree with cases that make sense. But beyond that -

@Meg how do you feel about Furtive's more recent content that does in fact lean on putting together cases?

Second, I'm super defensive of my slot as town. I don't see why that's just blanket scummy. Generally I will defend the hell out of my slot unless I believe it's in town's best interest not to.

Overall furtiveglance's play day 1 has read as both overinformed through lack of inquisition, and unreasoned, through lack of evidence. It reads like scum making filler to not go over the edge for lurking and looking just invested enough to get by.

I do think Furtive's early play was lacking and mostly inconsequential. I think I've noted that already and I think furtive even mentioned that too. I don't think it necessarily makes him scum here though.

@Meg - Have your thoughts changed from recent content at all?

Overall this case feels weak and latches onto points that I feel I would make as scum:

1. Overly scrutinizing early game moves.
2. Criticizing comments that don't necessarily move the game forward.
3. Claiming a slot isn't putting in the work and instead leaning on others.
4. Claiming a slot is just thinking about themself instead of what's best for town.

It's not that any of these points taken separately are necessarily invalid, but they're all obvious points I would make if I was scum trying to push a slot and they're all here in this case. Like I could see scum!Rad making your post here for sure.

I don't really understand what you're saying with the underlined, could you elaborate? Because none of those seem inherently like a reason for a scum push. Maybe I misunderstand you here.
Have a few other problems with the post but w/e right now.

As for the questions, I think's furtive's readlist reflects eerily similar to my own with swapping me for him, which is something that I have found often means tvt going at each other through dissonance of some sort. That definitely *could be occuring but I won't make any assumptions on that front yet.

[MegAzumarill]

@Rad
I'm assuming you're town but I'd like to talk about some things.
Namely your town read on Esires, can you articulate why?

Also can you try to put into words why:

I don't hate 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 by Meg. I actually find that sequence kinda townie w/regards to vibes.

Why you find this sequence townie.


@Bella, Can you give your scum reads for the record?

@Meg, Who's scum other than Furtive?

@FG, Can you stop being so scary please and thank you. Also for the record I disagree with 442.

Bella would be my next highest scumread but i don't get a s/s impression there. If you are asking for furtive's partner in my solve I don't have one in particular but there's room to fit it somewhere currently.

I had another post but I quoted the wrong one so give me a sec.

[MegAzumarill]

Alright Fancy, regarding your 474. Interesting shift on the Bulba/Bella slot here. As someone who leans scum on that slot, I'm going to try to dissect your case as best as I can.

1. I think 34 and 35 have some alignment indicative content actually. The vote on Juice puts pressure on a slot that needs to give input and 35 is probably slightly more >randtown than nai.

2. I read this post as NAI.

3. 147 probably NAI. I'm curious if he's been entertaining the BBT wagon openly before that post though cause that could be telling. 173 I agree and I mentioned before I thought it was weak. It feels like an act. 174 further feels like an act.

4. I don't think this point is fair to expect an alternative from Bella at this stage, right when she replaced in. I didn't have an alternative either. We just got here man.

5. Again, too soon. I think BBT null is reasonable here. Maybe you don't realize how hard BBT is to read and he didn't give much readable content this game.

6/7. With regards to "scum slips", which I was relying on heavily when I started again recently (last time I played was 2014 before a couple months ago), people have pointed out that they "scum slip" more as town than they do as scum. I think Bella here is just referring to the entire set of people playing the game as "town". Probably not an actual scum slip. 321 and 322 are reasonable because both BBT and you have named esires/furtive as the hero solve at that point and a town!Bella would want to dig into that.

All in all I wouldn't vote Bella based on your case.

That said, I have some other points which I'm considering in a scum!Bella case that maybe you can comment on:

76 - (Bulba) I don't believe this coming from him. Also, esires wasn't offering themself up to be flipped, they were just ok with being the first wagon, which isn't necessarily a flip. Reasoning here feels fabricated.

276 comes across reasonable. BUT I'm having a hard time figuring out which is more likely - scum!Bella not pushing BBT here because peta has already claimed he was going to hammer, or town!Bella just giving real thoughts on BBT. Further, I'm not totally sold on a BBT flip being especially useful for new info but maybe Bella will come up with something.

Something about the bolded strikes me as ....just a weird thing to say? It's weird but I don't see substantial scum motive for something like that.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't really understand what you're saying with the underlined, could you elaborate? Because none of those seem inherently like a reason for a scum push. Maybe I misunderstand you here.

I feel like your case emphasizes a bunch of weak points that are easy for scum to make against town. None of the points you made felt like strong examples that point to a scum!furtive. What you underlined was a list of generic summaries of the points you were making. I feel they're easy to make as scum and come together as a weak case. I couldn't tell if that's because you're scum making a weak case or if they're legit concerns from a town!meg. The problem isn't that you have those concerns, it's that you're pushing them as a convincing argument for why furtive is scum.

So you are claiming a point of someone not playing to a town wincon is not actually scum inidicative? Because that's essentially what point 2, 3, and 4 say.

[MegAzumarill]

And even if you make that argument, you also are saying that I'd be more likely as scum to push someone not advancing the town wincon for said thing than I would as town.

It sounds ridiculous fmpov

[MegAzumarill]

Here it is then, the big readslist. I'll even colour code it, with me in

green

to try to trick you guys into townreading me(!) and it's town at the top in the usual way.

Fancypants

:

Spoiler:

Voting: Esires (RVS, 15), Rad (Juice) (probably for lurking, 54), Esires (POE, 'not caring' about voting

scum

, 284), Esires (402)

Reads: BS200

town

- 15, 153, 277, 372,

Furtive

town

- 15, then

scum

in 277, then

town

in 354, then

scum

in 372, then

town

in 429,

BBT

town

- 153, 178, 185, 277, Esires

town

- 153, then

scum

in 277, 284, 301, 372, 402, Bella (Bulba)

town

- 277, then scum in 293, 298, back to town in 365, 370, 372, Rad

town

- 354, 402, Meg

town

- 61, then

scum

in 363, 372, 402.

Thoughts: Heir to

Petapan

's throne, almost unpushable

town

. I stake my reputation (not much of a reputation to lose!) on this user being

town

. They have put out so much agenda-free analysis this game, it's really commendable. All of the towntells are here - scumhunting, moving the game forward, desire to understand other players, everything. A very open player. I will never vote here.

BS200

('s replacement):

Spoiler:

Voting: Meg (RVS, 8), BBT ('no newbies' gate, 123)

Reads: Meg

scum

- 51, then Meg

town

- 66, 123, 152, 200,

Petapan

town

- 51, then

Petapan

'

performative

' - 87, '

confusing

' - 123,

BBT

scum

- 123, 152.

Thoughts: I was reading 200 when I realised BS200 was

town

. How poetic. I was about to call them

scum

for their nonsensical progressions on

Petapan

and Meg, and strange omgus on BBT. But

scum

doesn't usually set up a push on a player and then change on a dime, not in my experience. I want to say more but that's it for me. There's no agenda to their play. Tonally as well, their thoughts look unguarded and natural. I'll have to keep this one short.

Esires

(' replacement):

Spoiler:

Voting:

Petapan

(MACTEPOK) (RVS, 11), Rad (Juice) (get a wagon rolling, 42) BS200 (contradictory read on

Petapan

, 78),

BBT

(no newbies gate, stretch or distancing, 212)

Reads: BS200

scum

- 78, 129, 212, 235, Meg

town

- 78, Fancy

town

- 78,

BBT

scum

- 129, 149, 212, Bella (Bulba)

scum

- 129,

Petapan

town

- 149, 212

Thoughts: I'm worried that my ability to honestly read this slot has been hamstrung by people suggesting us as the

mafia

team, which makes me illogically protective by instinct. Much was made of 17's "If it's me, it's me". To me this reads more

town

than

scum

, but not by much. "Slightly more than rand

town

" is what

Petapan

said. I find that I keep coming back to this vote on

BBT

, with the suggestion of them being paired with BS200. This read is quite bizarre, and frankly terrible in hindsight. If you take into account the burgeoning suspicion on Esires at the time that he puts a nail in BBT's coffin, it does look

scummy

. However, the side of the fence I'm landing on is that this 'distancing' justification is something

town

thinks about, and perhaps too strange to come from

mafia

.

Rad

(formerly Juice):

Spoiler:

Voting: Crabulous (RVS, 10),

Petapan

(Omgus, squeaking like scum (!), 146)

Reads:

Petapan

scum

- 146, then

town

in 237, 253, 258. Actually just read 237 and 253, it's pretty much this: 'peta and meg at town, esires

town lean

, furtive and fancy at

null

, bulba and bbt

scum lean

, bs2000 at

scum

'. 258 is the same with Bella (Bulba) and Fancy

down

.

Thoughts: I was deceived by Rad's effort posting in Newbie 2097, but this game does feel like a different Rad - as Fancypants said in 354. It feels like Rad is really thinking hard about the game. Having said that, probably the weakest of my townreads, and I'd like to see where his vote lands.

Bellaphant

(formerly Bulbazoor (formerly Yericky(!)))

Spoiler:

Voting: Bulba votes Esires (RVS, 39), Bella votes

Furtive

(Bad vote on

BBT

, not sussing Esires, 'busy work'(?), 337)

Reads: Bulba calls

Petapan

town

- 39, 103, 106, 124, Bella says

Petapan

null

- 241, Bulba calls

Furtive

scum

- 73, 85, 86, Bella agrees - 276, 322, 337, Bulba calls

BBT

scum

- 121, 147, Bella has

BBT

null

- 283, Bulba

does not townread

Meg - 194, Bellaphant agrees - 276, Bella calls BS200 and Fancy

town

- 241, Bella

does not scumread

Esires - 322 - but

would elim

Esires - 357.

Thoughts: There are 2 reasons that I suspect this slot. The first is that they heavily townread the Night 1 kill,

Petapan

. They weren't the only player to do so but did so quite effusively and also immediately (

Petapan

had only posted 4 times before 39). The second reason is that Bella's reads line up with Bulba's in the main. Not the

townreads

(townread, really - Bulba only gave

Petapan

town status), but the

scumreads

(or, more precisely, the preferred eliminations). Bulba never voted after RVS but threatened

BBT

with a vote in 173. On replacing in, Bella found the

BBT

wagon 'inorganic' yet was still 'fine with' the vote, citing the promise of 'a ton of info from the flip'. Bella also follows up Bulba's prolonged suspicion of

me

. Now with the privilege of knowing my own alignment, the question I have to ask myself is: Was I really so scummy that 2 different

town

players (sharing a slot) had me as a strong

scumread

? I think the answer is that it's definitely possible. I wasn't very active or engaged for a time, partly busy IRL. And the fact that several players are

scumreading

me

at present shows that I haven't played an objectively

towny

game. But the chances of Bella's reads matching Bulba's so closely is something I can't quite get over. What I'm considering is that these voting preferences are decided by the necessity of avoiding a partner rather than the earnest guess at a

mafia

.

MegAzumarill

:

Spoiler:

Voting: Esires (RVS, 7),

BBT

(unexplained vote on BS200, 109), Esires (reaction test (?) (see 388), 285),

BBT

(289),

Furtive

(313, explained in 376)

Reads: Bella (Bulba)

town

- 108, 136,

BBT

scum

- 109, 111, BS200

town

- 136,

Petapan

town

- 136,

Furtive

town

- 136, then

scum

in 313, 376

Thoughts: For one of the highest posters, Meg's ISO is shockingly empty. You can count the posts in which they share their own thoughts on other players on the fingers of one hand. All they do is ask questions of other players.

Town

certainly doesn't usually play like this. I view their current push on me as opportunistic, agenda-driven and I seem to be the only player in the game they like to talk about at the moment. I would be very surprised if Meg was

town

this game. Very surprised indeed.

Conclusion: I wAs RiGhT tHe FiRsT tImE. I said my reads were changing earlier, and they WERE, but they changed back.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

You say town doesn't ask a lot of questions as I have, why do you think that town doesn't ask questions?

@furtive

[MegAzumarill]

Town makes reads themselves and broadcasts said reads.

How do they form those reads?

[MegAzumarill]

You are proposing that a player that knows everyone's alignment is more likely to ask questions of other players than one that knows nobody's alignment but their own.

Let that sink in for a moment

[MegAzumarill]

Town makes reads themselves and broadcasts said reads.

How do they form those reads?

Oh wow you got me. NOT! Yeah partly asking questions if that's your style, but you don't need to. You can just read a post for alignment, or look at voting. That's not even my point. Your ratio of questioning to giving reads is lopsided.

You are proposing that a player that knows everyone's alignment is more likely to ask questions of other players than one that knows nobody's alignment but their own.

Let that sink in for a moment

Yes. It's incredibly easy to do as mafia.

Ok I concede its easy to do as mafia. That's not what you're arguing here, intentionally or not.

Your claim is town that does not have strong reads and needs to figure out alignment would not ask questions to acheive that goal of figuring out alignment.

[MegAzumarill]

I pretty clearly stated any reads I had solidity on and kept my thoughts updated. The fact none of this was actually definitive alignment reads on most of the players would make more sense to have more questions.

Your argument assumes I'm scum then provides why that makes sense, rather than prove it doesn't make sense as town.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't dislike corwin's entrance today.
I do dislike Rad's reaction and subsequent self-meta though.

I also don't know why Town!Rad would go this much into it.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't dislike corwin's entrance today.

If you knew 100% that corwin was wrong in his claims about my town play, and that he was misrepresenting me, does your opinion of his entrance change?

Not really

[MegAzumarill]

Being wrong doesn't make someone scum, and more importantly people come across differently to different people so the dissonance there would be natural coming from town!corwin.'

[MegAzumarill]

And it's a fairly minor point anyway

[MegAzumarill]

I'll go in depth a little later, but the order is generally

Bs (Roden)/ Fancy
Corwin/Rad/Bella
Furtive

[MegAzumarill]

I don't see how it's a strategic deciscion to stay rooted on a wagon that isn't gaining any fervor but w/e

[MegAzumarill]

I a little bit of explanation I promised earlier,

Bs200/Roden- I think this slot is town. A lot of Bs2000's play on day 1 felt completely incoherent in the lens of them being scum, particularly early on with me. Later in the day, I felt their reads and how they presented their thoughts seemed natural and not pushing an agenda. Nothing Roden has done today has made me thhink otherwise of the slot, so I feel safe assuming this is town.

Fancy- their catchup line of thinking feels natural today and all in all they are a consensus town read for a reason. I don't think there's a lot to say here other than their cathup and subsequent play was really good, while their early play was OK.

Bellaphant/Bulba - This slot I'm torn on since this feels like the fencesitty Bella that was in deputy cultists, but both here and their she claims it's her natural playstyle. I wouldn't be one to judge for the fencesitting but it's too offputting to keep her in townreads. I say keep because I was a fan of bulba's posting early on which felt proactive and solvey. Scumlean in total.

Rad/Juice- Juice was a bit of a nothing burger, and quickly subbed into Rad. Rad has had a fair bit of good content here and a fair bit of content I disliked. I feel there's could be clear scum motivations for these actions but my gut says it's not the case and this is just townie dissonance. A lot stick out to me on this though, so I can't reasonably proclaim town here with confidence.


Corwinold/Esires - This slot is probably >rand town from day 1 from circumstance. Due to the way day 1 unfolded I feel like there wasn't any deliberate motion away from esires when they were being seriously considered for the chopping block, or when at E-1. It feels like they were either hard abandoned by their partner day 1, which feels unlikely, or they are town. Additionally, their reads felt more grounded on reread. That said, what the slot has done could be scum playing cool but it just doesn't feel as likely. The replacement hasn't changed my thoughts over this slot much. This and Rad end up about null.

Furtive- Previously stated scumcase still holds true. Their play has been increasingly bizarre here which honestly could spell a misguided town, but I don't really see anyone else as better suited. Their day 1 play lines up nearly perfectly with scum in how scum should best act in that kind of situation. Reminds me of how my read formed on Bella in Deputy Cultists. That read was correct. As for people's townreads on this slot, they seem either abstract or I just don't agree that that particular thing is town indicative.

[MegAzumarill]

Gotta take my own lack of charisma into account sometimes I guess.

[MegAzumarill]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89682
- Lazy/ Inactive Scum Meg

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=88251
- Agressive/Tunnelly Scum Meg

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88391
Mixed Bag Scum Meg

Descriptions should match the games iirc.

[MegAzumarill]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89823&p=13496149#p13496149- Meg Town game for relevancy

Spoiler:

[MegAzumarill]

A list of my scum games can be found Here.

Anyway I need to sleep now

[MegAzumarill]

Curse my tired mind for messing up the rickroll link

[MegAzumarill]

@meg, can you expand a bit on the furtive read wrt deputy cultists? Because it seemed like that game you were the only one really on to me

@corwin, in around a bit if you wanna chat. I'm cocnerned you think I've been low frequency though, that's just not really true.

Sure, in both games I feel like I'm scumreading scum for playing in a way that clearly helps their wincon but even pointing that out the town in general doesn't agree with me.

[MegAzumarill]

Examples of what?

[MegAzumarill]

Stuff like
Furtive only really opening up to giving reasons when their slot comes under fire.
The more reserved day 1 where they don't show any incentive to learn other people's alignments.
Making very odd claims about what actually is scum indicative to validate their reads and combat scumreads against them.

[MegAzumarill]

At least I think that's what you are asking for.

[MegAzumarill]

I do have to agree that it wasn't covered very much in your recap.

[MegAzumarill]

Assuming town!you I don't think fancy's play makes a whole lot of sense as scum here. Like get townread with a catchup then use said towncred to put a case on a townie to mislim then.... disolve the wagon you created? Maybe I'm not remembering right but it's fairly odd regardless of your alignment assuming scum!fancy

[MegAzumarill]

I mean I am both coming from the perspective of knowing my own alignment, but even though the case wasn't extremely convincing, it still felt genuine and I agree somewhat with some of the points there. Like yeah out of context saying half the town is scum is a fairly frivolous argument, but the point you were generalizing it rather than trying to identify a specific culprit or specific group of culprits is a valid point.

[MegAzumarill]

:/

[MegAzumarill]

And here I thought I'd never see a CFD on site

[MegAzumarill]

This what I've been saying - he did it to his hero solve, he did it to me, and rad. Meg said it doesn't make sense as scum but its freaking weird as scum

This seems like you're saying you townread fancy, which doesn't seem to be the case in context.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here bella?

[MegAzumarill]

I don't know what cfd means.

Chinese Fire Drill, when a large group of voters switch to a particular wagon in quick succession near the end of a day phase.

[MegAzumarill]

I mean it's weird sure, but I get the feeling its town!weird not scum!weird.

[MegAzumarill]

:/

[MegAzumarill]

Roden, What about I wanna claim third party?

Ok but seriously Nero what do you think of Rad/furtive/corwin so far.

[MegAzumarill]

like ok, theoretically I'm scum. I just don't hard claim pr for ??? reason At best I keep living and if not I potentially out a town pr and help out my scum buddy. If you are town then you really are not thinking this through.

Ehhh does a scum in your position claim PR here?

Your only real worry here is Meg coming in and flipping you. You're not actually all that in danger besides that. Furtive hard reads you town and I had fancy locktowned for a bit. Scum!Nero claiming PR doesn't make much sense here in this game state does it?

That said, scum!Nero claiming VT should have been a no-brainer and scum!Nero's partner should know that. So this just feels like town giving the middle finger at the thought of claiming on repp in. Is a good scum move to come in and NOT claim anything? I find that hard to believe. scum!Nero's partner knows I don't want to vote fancy slot here so the only wild card is Meg, so why not play it safer?

Why do you think scum!nero claims VT here? I feel like there would be value for scum!nero to go either way.

[MegAzumarill]

So, the scum pools are either furtive/nero, or meg/bella/roden.

no

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[MegAzumarill]

Corwin is it your meta to be this fucking angry as town? Cause you've been this angry with me multiple times this game. Can you point to a town game or two where you display this level of anger? I don't remember you being THIS angry as scum even when you were legit angry at me in that first newbie game of mine. (2097 or whatever)

You know that noticing this anger should probably be a sign to dial it back a notch, right?
Right?

[MegAzumarill]

Meg you still around? Stop lurking and give some legit input please. Some opinions would be great.

I mean I don't feel like my opinion on any slot has changed significantly in the past few pages.
I'm still leaning town here on Nero/Fancy although I don't agree with some of Nero's sentiments at this point. It's fallen somewhat. I kind of like the corwinold slot more after your interactions with them.
My preferred lim is still furtive. I'll swing to one of the other wagons by deadline but haven't made up my mind yet.

[MegAzumarill]

Sorry for having real life obligations that kept me from posting the uv sooner.

I'm not worried about that. You called me scum several times lately but you also called me town so its like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

At what point did I call you scum? I addressed the phallacy that scum!you doesn't do town!you things because they don't make sense as scum--which is awful logic, anything that makes sense as town makes sense as scum. I said the scum pools are bifurcated now, meaning the game is split into two potential pools, which you are in one -- the one I find less likely ATM.

I do think its a little silly to consider the scumpools bifurcated like you describe.

[MegAzumarill]

Meg you still around? Stop lurking and give some legit input please. Some opinions would be great.

I mean I don't feel like my opinion on any slot has changed significantly in the past few pages.
I'm still leaning town here on Nero/Fancy although I don't agree with some of Nero's sentiments at this point. It's fallen somewhat. I kind of like the corwinold slot more after your interactions with them.
My preferred lim is still furtive. I'll swing to one of the other wagons by deadline but haven't made up my mind yet.

Ok let's get some commitments then?

You want Furtive.

If not furtive, which wagons are you comfortable with if we have to last minute vote one?

Well if worse comes to worse I hammer the one at E-1 so we have

something.

If I had made up my mind by now I'd have said so.

There's stuff to consider and I feel the game is emotionally charged at the moment so I'm taking a step back for it.

[MegAzumarill]

Read some new pages.

1) Yelling about claiming is just pointless, if you're about to hammer ask for a claim. Otherwise they don't have to.

2) Roden has never explained his scumread on me, and now seems
borderline obsessed.

3) Meg's posting has never got off the ground this game, very mild. Post about casually 'swinging by' to hammer another wagon at EOD was pretty sus, just like their whole game. Once again, any Meg voters get a free sheep from me.

Still feel Bella and Meg makes the most sense.

Why do you find being mild as suspicious?
What do you think Town!Meg acts like here that I'm not? This feels like pointless bickering.

Also Roden has said like, 1 thing mildly against you and has said he likes the bella slot more than you. That's nowhere near any level of obsessed.

[MegAzumarill]

Thinking about it I feel like it was just a poor choice of words for what they were trying to convey.

[MegAzumarill]

I think you are wrong on Meg and its one of Cor/Roden

Town Meg would have more reads on players other than me, they basically lumped everyone in town or null. Just read 'Mewbie' 2092.

meg is scum and doesn't hammer me b/c? Also I just kinda got the same vibe from our last game where I thought that Meg was scummy as all get out but was town.

+ I think Cor/Roden just fits better

Do you think corwin pairs as scum with anyone else?
I just don't see where you get scum!Roden from here

[MegAzumarill]

The first one I quoted feels again like baseless complaining. It's also untrue since I have vocalized my thoughts so complaining about having no reads is a little disengenuous

[MegAzumarill]

I don't intend to hammer Bella

[MegAzumarill]

You, Nero, Corwin (maybe)
Enough room there for sure
I think Bella here is giving me more LHF vibes than scumvibes

[MegAzumarill]

True mafia is a game where a lot of things are in doubt
Good observation

[MegAzumarill]

Scum!me has lots of incentive and means to pick a wagon here and just latch on if that was my intent like you so claim, having free choice of mislims or whatever.

[MegAzumarill]

I mean you only support the votes on your scumreads so where do you make the distinction between us?

Do you think so poorly of me as scum that I would just sit and do nothing with the tremendous amount of instability the game is at right now? You keep accusing me of setting up to abuse thinga but have you ever actually see me use them? Do you think I'm too scared to setup a fencesitting oppurtunity to just squander it

I mean I don't feel the need to reconsider your slot when it's clear you don't feel the need to progress discussion about it. You spend a whole lot of time not snwering questions I ask you that would be easy to answer if you were pushing in good faith.

[MegAzumarill]

Read some new pages.

1) Yelling about claiming is just pointless, if you're about to hammer ask for a claim. Otherwise they don't have to.

2) Roden has never explained his scumread on me, and now seems
borderline obsessed.

3) Meg's posting has never got off the ground this game, very mild. Post about casually 'swinging by' to hammer another wagon at EOD was pretty sus, just like their whole game. Once again, any Meg voters get a free sheep from me.

Still feel Bella and Meg makes the most sense.

Why do you find being mild as suspicious?
What do you think Town!Meg acts like here that I'm not? This feels like pointless bickering.

Also Roden has said like, 1 thing mildly against you and has said he likes the bella slot more than you. That's nowhere near any level of obsessed.

[MegAzumarill]

Read some new pages.

1) Yelling about claiming is just pointless, if you're about to hammer ask for a claim. Otherwise they don't have to.

2) Roden has never explained his scumread on me, and now seems
borderline obsessed.

3) Meg's posting has never got off the ground this game, very mild. Post about casually 'swinging by' to hammer another wagon at EOD was pretty sus, just like their whole game. Once again, any Meg voters get a free sheep from me.

Still feel Bella and Meg makes the most sense.

Why do you find being mild as suspicious?
What do you think Town!Meg acts like here that I'm not? This feels like pointless bickering.

Also Roden has said like, 1 thing mildly against you and has said he likes the bella slot more than you. That's nowhere near any level of obsessed.

Yeah this was some content I didn't feel like answering/talking about. If you're town I look like a bad player for this but I think you can guess/already know the answers I'm going to give, so I don't really know why you're asking.

1) Mild is suspicious because scum want to fit in. This is generally accepted, it's known as blending. Surely you knew this is what I was on about.

2) More reads, like I said just now. That is - more posts which state opinion about the alignment of another player.

Considering the situation I feel like I stick out more being "mild" here than not? Wouldn't you agree, you have called it out as particularly out of place compared to the rest of the game which does sort of defeat your point here.
So you expect me to magically know more with less information? I don't think your schema here for how alignments play works. Like what is my end goal here if I'm scum? Do things that are attracting more attention to myself for what? In an attempt to fit in even though that's blatantly not how this is playing out? I really don't see what motive you think I'm playing to.

[MegAzumarill]

Meg if furtive is scum, I can see why you'd consider me a possible pairing. Is that your main issue with me right now or do you have a scum read on me outside that?

I don't think furtive/Nero is likely here. Furtive fancy interactions are so on the nose if scum pair, just doesn't feel likely.

Would you consider a corwin vote here? I don't think a furtive wagon would happen here and we need to consolidate soon.

You know we don't all need to agree, we just need 4 to agree.....you voted Bella, who cares what Meg thinks? Bizarre post from Rad here.

Yes, I do know how this game works. Thanks though. How about you sit back and let me discuss shit with someone I think is probably town so we can come to a consensus on a wagon to push today?

Bella wagon only flips if Corwin or Roden come in and vote it, and really they should announce intent and wait. We've got less than 10 hours and much of that will be people sleeping. Meg's here now and I want to discuss a corwin wagon with her. Bizarre to work together, I get it.

I mean like I said I will hammer if it comes to deadline regardless of reads. I like Corwin wagon here more than Bella but I'm hesitant since I do get where their frustration was coming from yesterday and want their input back before deadline (a tall order i know) because while I didn't understand their interactions with Nero there I'm not sure it's scum motivated and I feel they just weren't presenting themselves clearly.

Preferred Lim order goes furtive>corwin/Nero (not sure between the two if I had the choice)>Bella>Rad/Roden

[MegAzumarill]

Read some new pages.

1) Yelling about claiming is just pointless, if you're about to hammer ask for a claim. Otherwise they don't have to.

2) Roden has never explained his scumread on me, and now seems
borderline obsessed.

3) Meg's posting has never got off the ground this game, very mild. Post about casually 'swinging by' to hammer another wagon at EOD was pretty sus, just like their whole game. Once again, any Meg voters get a free sheep from me.

Still feel Bella and Meg makes the most sense.

Why do you find being mild as suspicious?
What do you think Town!Meg acts like here that I'm not? This feels like pointless bickering.

Also Roden has said like, 1 thing mildly against you and has said he likes the bella slot more than you. That's nowhere near any level of obsessed.

Yeah this was some content I didn't feel like answering/talking about. If you're town I look like a bad player for this but I think you can guess/already know the answers I'm going to give, so I don't really know why you're asking.

1) Mild is suspicious because scum want to fit in. This is generally accepted, it's known as blending. Surely you knew this is what I was on about.

2) More reads, like I said just now. That is - more posts which state opinion about the alignment of another player.

Considering the situation I feel like I stick out more being "mild" here than not? Wouldn't you agree, you have called it out as particularly out of place compared to the rest of the game which does sort of defeat your point here.
So you expect me to magically know more with less information? I don't think your schema here for how alignments play works. Like what is my end goal here if I'm scum? Do things that are attracting more attention to myself for what? In an attempt to fit in even though that's blatantly not how this is playing out? I really don't see what motive you think I'm playing to.

??? I'm the only one calling you out on it, don't you get that I'm especially insightful in my own mind? But seriously. As well as not sticking out (in a way that other people care about), you're keeping other players onside by not scumreading them. It's like you're managing the playerlist. That was my other point about having only 1 scumread.

You don't have to respond to this, I get that we're not communicating in the most helpful way right now.

I mean I suppose it may be unfair to call out because I suppose a scum!player may act like i am now, but scum!me would be doing about the exact opposite here. I shouldn't expect you to recognize the difference since I figure I have more nuanced knowledge of myself in that (as well as objectively knowledge of my alignment etc etc.)

That said that sort of strategy as scum is bad, I know it's bad, and puts me in a very awkward situation tomorrow if I am in fact scum.

I don't expect anyone to take this as gospel but feel I should leave my thinking here.

[MegAzumarill]

Meg, is part of your case that you think Frut is going after LHF?

no

[MegAzumarill]

Yes there must be a hammer for an elim

[MegAzumarill]

Bella claim

[MegAzumarill]

hmm hmm hmm

[MegAzumarill]

I dunno how town!Corwin concludes that I'm not analytical in my town games but I also don't know why scum!Corwin announces such an easily disprovable lie.

Because I don't go reading your other games.

Play this one, not your other ones.

My

personal

experience with you does not match this game -- perhaps that's a poor reflection of your general play, but I don't understand how you keep misunderstanding this. You have not played like this in other games I've played with you.

You're the one with the meta read on me I find ridiculous. I didn't bring that shit into the game, you did and I defended myself. Even Bella thought it was laughably bad and she's been in the same games with me that you have. I feel I'm doing MORE analysis here due to being more experienced with the game, but it was still my approach in that first newbie game to analyze the shit out of people.

Well I'm about to sleep so Ima hammer

[MegAzumarill]

accidental quote but wrap up your discussions

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Bellaphant

[MegAzumarill]

Massclaim probably isnt necessary unless we have cop/tracker.
My thought is corwin is the last scum, followed by Nero

[MegAzumarill]

I don't think scum breaks off like that when they have to know bella is going over at that point. Like if corwin is actually town we can lim Roden but right now I don't think we should.

[MegAzumarill]

Ye

[MegAzumarill]

Well we evidently don't have an invest
VOTE: Corwin

[MegAzumarill]

I mean they did read as not likely to be aligned as bella.
My guess is mafia thought they were unlikely to go down compared to the rest of us which is probably accurate.

[MegAzumarill]

Well if we risk fake claim nonsense the VT is clear then no? There will be one assuming mass claim happens tomorrow IF the power role survives. Claiming PR/ Vanilla seems pointless and can only help to guide the nightkill.

[MegAzumarill]

I personally feel like I've picked up on enough context that there's very few actual role combinations for the last 5 players left that make any degree of sense.

[MegAzumarill]

You are also in the stated POE of all 4 other players so that's a thing

[MegAzumarill]

Ok but that literally could apply to -any- other player than you.
Tomorrow it will likely be a 50/50 after claims so i don't think confusion will be a huge factor.

What do you think Roden's slot has done prior to today that is scum indicative.

[MegAzumarill]

Without the context of my reads which do you think is more likely to be scum?

[MegAzumarill]

I'll give tomorrow serious consideration of the possibility, but I think theres pretty strong reasons to townread everyone here BUT corwin.

I do want Corwin to claim here at the very least

[MegAzumarill]

Day 1 Bs2000 played in what I thought was a very genuine way which didn't work well as scum faking content which is +town especially considering the low content total of day 1.
Day 2 I haven't had a problem with Roden's play really anywhere (except perhaps the push on fancy/you but I don't rhink it was unreasonable for town!Roden)
End of Day 2 I think reads as -scum.
Overall I thonk the slot has been consistently towny this game

[MegAzumarill]

It's masons btw.

[MegAzumarill]

Give you three guesses who

[MegAzumarill]

I *seriously* thought about a no kill last night to draw out the PR too, but I over-read the masons thing.

Would not have gone well, you did what you could have

[MegAzumarill]

I mean part of me unrealistically wanted the 2v1 mason win at the end.

It's not like I 100% know corwin!scum here

[MegAzumarill]

I mean I don't think I made an effort to hide the masonry. I've had Roden as town throughout.

That's what BS2000's weird reversal was, him arbitrarily scumreading me to hide the masonry and I was basically like, no stop that.

[MegAzumarill]

Yeah I did call it out as distancing too.

[MegAzumarill]

Was that in day 1 or 2? I skipped early day 2 before I joined so I could intentionally play off having picked up in esires' shoes as a consistency tell. I don't remember much of day 1 except launching BBT was hilariously bad, the NK was hilariously bad, and Bulb was so obviously scum it was disappointing I had a red card.

Pretty early day 1

[MegAzumarill]

I mean in my case it was POE.

I think the Nero-> Bella wagon there really did it for me in ruling out Rad + Furtive as a suspect because scum wouldn't bus in that way.
Just had more memorable moments from the fancy slot in +town land than yours.

[MegAzumarill]

A lot of the time mafia's success just depends on hitting PRs early in NewD3.

The wrong/ either mafia members dies day 1 > Vt kill it's curtains in a lot of setups.

[MegAzumarill]

no redactions

[MegAzumarill]

I think about the activity thing that 13 players is generally the right place to go for consistant activity, but I with the newbie queue as it is I don't think it would be wise to change up the setup that way. I suppose I can just suggest looking into other queues if you don't like how the pacing is for micros