Newbie 2112 | Ed Sheeran | Postgame

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: DragonEater70

Because I love dragons.

VOTE: DragonEater70

[Not Known 15]

NK is that an RVS vote or a serious vote?

Serious, kind of, but low confidence.

Aurorus that is what we call wifom. Now watch

as I vote the Mafia Rolecop.

Well, that's kind of lame.
Obvious TMI scumslip(TMI=Too Much Information).

VOTE: IcetFeelsPain

[Not Known 15]

also, the maf roleblocker thing is dumb and was never explained

Rolecop, not roleblocker.
The thing is that

Aurorus that is what we call wifom. Now watch as I vote the Mafia Rolecop.

in this post IcetFeelsPain calls me Mafia Rolecop.
Not mafia. Mafia Rolecop.
However, there are only three potential people who can know that there is a Mafia Rolecop in the first place. A Friendly Neighbor, who is extremely unlikely to do so for reasons I will explain later, a Mafia Rolecop themselves, and the partner of a Mafia Rolecop.
And a FN who has looked at the possibilities enough to realize being in column B would normally also realize that this is privileged information.
That's a case of what we call TMI - you show having information about something that a normal townie should not know.
I might have some time later today, but I am not sure, and not at the weekend so...

@Mod: I will be V/LA until Monday.
[
/b].

[Not Known 15]

I need a bit more time to catch up. For now...

But for now:
Icet, why didn't you just say Mafia instead of Mafia Rolecop?

The Roleblocker misname is also suspicious btw.
But it could be just an error by a townie mixing things up so it's a bit less AI.

[Not Known 15]

the only thing that made me doubt them was perhaps the fact that they had labeled me as a townie with only two Posts that I had at that time,

Okay, so I'm scum because my gut told me you were town? Interesting take!

That's an interesting reaction to a fairly green read.

[Not Known 15]

I get why you feel that way. I mean, it felt weird to type it when I did. BUT, I was trying to say that I feel your insistence on seeing everything I do or say as scummy is itself scummy. If you did change your opinion then you'd stop insisting that, and therefore would look less scummy.

But wouldn't that give scum comet an easy way out of the scumread?

[Not Known 15]

Looking at the game state, Bella vs OMI seem like good competing wagons to me that give us plenty of info to work with.

VOTE: Roden

[Not Known 15]

UNVOTE: Bellaphant
VOTE: Roden

It seems to me that he is very comfortable from his pedestal up there in the lists and has not soiled his hands hunting scum. Does anyone else see the same thing as me? or I definitely have my radar calibrated wrong.

Why do you think that Roden has not scumhunted at all?

[Not Known 15]

Spoiler:

Spoiler: The Bella Vote

So far I consider that the interaction between the players has been good. I have witnessed some accusations and defenses by players. However, I believe that the best way to put pressure is using our best weapon: THE VOTE

I propose that we come together to put votes on the players and be able to better see their reactions.

Anyone else want to join in voting for Bellaphant?

I have a doubt. Who here played with AurorusVox last game that he won as a scum?

Your own reads list earlier had comet I think as a scumread. What I don’t understand is why you wouldn’t vote for comet instead of someone who hadn’t posted yet? And why you’re pushing Bella but haven’t tried to get a further read on comet?

And why would you vote a town read??

I voted for Bellaphant precisely because she was the only player left to appear. I already saw that it appeared but her comments do not allow me to define her side, so I feel satisfied with my vote in her.

Right, I still hasn't pushed Cometbright like I should, I have to.

I would vote for a possible villager because I simply have doubts about everyone. For example: You seem town, however, knowing that you are a SE player, I wouldn't trust, I have met experienced scum players who act and pressure better than the same town.

Some of my thoughts...
1.

AurorusVox

: Continuous scum hunting, always attentive to any movement.
2.

patchwork

: Natural and genuine play, their doubts and confusion seem genuine.
3.

Roden

: Interesting analysis and in line with my way of seeing the game.
4.

IcetFeelsPain

: His publications are very neutral, his side cannot be defined very clearly, however I agree with the analysis he did in his Post 204, if it hadn't been for that post he would be on my list of possible mafia.
5.

DragonEater70

: In my Post 65 I gove a detailed opinion of him, however I must say that he has dropped positions on my list.
6.

Cometbright

: This player does not completely convince me, although it is true that he has made interesting contributions to the game, I have not really seen him hunting mafia, his theory related to post 140 and 142 seems to be more an attempt to try to sell that idea to AurorusVox, I don't know.
7.

Not Know 15

: He has really only made 3 posts in the entire game, there is not much to say about him.
8.

Bellaphant

: It's the driest game I've seen so far at the moment, that of a scum who doesn't want to directly attack anyone the first day so as not to be harmed. It seems worrying more because we see her as a newbie than for deciphering the game.

So omigrons original push on Bella despite scumreading comet over her, and saying he didn’t have a read on Bella, and saying we should use our vote but voting for someone who wasn’t here, it all seems really conflicted.

It also seems like omigron has potentially fabricated his read list to have Bella at the bottom because he’d been accused of not voting his top scumread.

Spoiler: The Roden Conundrum

1.09

Votecount 1.09

OMIGRON (4):

AurorusVox, patchwork, Roden, DragonEater70.

[E-1]

Bellaphant (2):

OMIGRON, Cometbright.

Cometbright (1):

Bellaphant.

IcetFeelsPain (1):

Not Known 15.

Not Known 15 (1):

IcetFeelsPain.

If I had to choose two possible scum from the list of those who voted for me when I was in E-1, I would say they are: Roden and DragonEater70

I believe that the reasons why AurousVox and patchwork vote for me are due to sincere doubts, on the other hand, the votes of Roden and DragonEater70 seem more like an attempt to take advantage of the moment, especially the vote of DragonEater70 who votes for me because I did not respond immediately when he asked me the question.

The roden scumread seems really strange given they have them so high up on the reads list. I was tempted to just quote the readslists from the isos tbh because they seem so very inconsistent.

Spoiler: An Interlude of Good Posting

Roden
AV
NK
Patch
OMIGRON
IceT
Bella
DragonEater

Well, there are a few things on your list that intrigue me.

• What makes you see that Roden is more townie than AurousVox?

• Why is Not Know 15 so high on your list if his participation has been so poor? Don't you think that the participation of patchwork, for example, has been more clarifying?

Curious that the two people you distrust the most are the ones who are voting for you right now

I don’t mind this post, given the final question seems quite pointed. But also omi has a habit of asking questions but never following them up; is he really concerned with getting answers or does he just want to look busy?

Spoiler: More Reads List Shenanigans

At this point I have absolutely nothing clear about the game (although I think it's normal for a D1)

However, I will give some of my appreciations again:

AurousVox

: He has quickly climbed the ranks of trust with most of us, largely because he has been insistent on his hunt, although at times he is very detail-oriented and that can cloud his vision of players. He has done a very good job as a town, now if for some reason he turns out to be a scum I could say that he has done an excellent job and he even deserves to win for such an exemplary performance.

patchwork

: I have already said it several times, mainly what has made me trust them is that he conveys genuineness in their words, the only thing that made me doubt them was perhaps the fact that they had labeled me as a townie with only two Posts that I had at that time, but now that I see that they also suspects me, they makes me have them on my town list.

DragonEater70

: It seems to me a somewhat messy player to express himself, I think he responds to the people who accuse him with counter-accusations and I don't like that, however, I must say that in his last comments he has given shine to being one of ours. At the moment he has earned the position of town for me.

Roden

: His analyzes seem very accurate to me, however it seems to me that he has not dirty his hands hunting mafia and that, just as AurousVox was quickly mounted in a comfortable position, he will be a player to take into account in later days.

IcetFeelsPain

: He makes really short Posts, most of his post are only questions, but in my opinion questions that don't really lead to anything. For me, his most complete Post was when he talked about his experience in the mafia and I agree a lot with him in his analysis of who people can be townie.

Cometbright

: Wow, one of the most difficult players to decipher, sometimes he makes very superficial Posts and little contribution, but other times he seems to give an air of small-town. I have tried to label him as a town but I have not been able to, something tells me that I must have my radar present in him.

Not Know 15

: 4 Post, what else can I say, is one of my candidates to execute without a doubt.

Bellaphant

: She also makes short posts, sometimes I even get confused between IcetFeelsPain and Bellaphant because their posts seem similar to me. But I think She's spent most of his effort just accusing Cometbright and nothing else. I would like to see her list of positions.

With the above I want to conclude by saying that my vote today will be for the group (

IcetFeelsPain, Cometbright, Not Know 15 and Bellaphant

)

UNVOTE: Bellaphant
VOTE: Roden

It seems to me that he is very comfortable from his pedestal up there in the lists and has not soiled his hands hunting scum. Does anyone else see the same thing as me? or I definitely have my radar calibrated wrong.

Again omigron votes someone who is not his top scumread. Again, the next reads list will adjust that. Also note the four players omi says he’ll consider voting, did not include roden.

A further point, icet seems to have dropped down the ranking but the things omi accuses them of here I think they’ve been posting that way the whole time? So I don’t know why they have changed from a townie read to a scummy one.

Spoiler: More Explanations

UNVOTE: Bellaphant
VOTE: Roden

It seems to me that he is very comfortable from his pedestal up there in the lists and has not soiled his hands hunting scum. Does anyone else see the same thing as me? or I definitely have my radar calibrated wrong.

Why do you think that Roden has not scumhunted at all?

I want to extend my answer a bit more...

Right now I see Roden as that typical Scum who prefers to give general opinions without directly threatening anyone on the first day so as not to have to unnecessarily enter into a discussion in which he may be affected.

That kind of gangster who doesn't like to get his hands dirty too much, to avoid being present in the eyes of the town. Well, it's barely the first day and it's not convenient for the scum to catch a fight with a townie so early.

I would argue that the one thing omigron has been consistent on is judging reads based on what he perceives as scumhunting. In this post he outlines the roden suspicion quite well, I think. It’s posts like this that give me pause.

Spoiler: Final Reads List

I'm saying dragon isn't a today issue And giving three scum reads (well, two and wtf is this read, on nk). Ive said i fidb town easier than scum, so I'm happy with that as a list.

Probably you/Ice on similar levels, Ans then nk slightly less scummy.

I agree with you, DragonEater70 should not be targeted for execution today. Cometbright also moved up the ranks, I see she tried to hunt down scum with her crazy theory which turned out to be a failure, but I see her on her way with a genuine cause. My list has now changed quite a bit. My new list is as follows:

AurousVox
patchwork
DragonEater70
Not Know 15

Cometbright
Bellaphant

IcetFeelsPain
Roden

But then we get what I called opportunistic posting. Read the reads lists in the iso or here (I might just post the reads list after all actually).

Icet has dropped further despite their posts not being noticeably different.
Roden has gone from a high townread to the scummiest read (because omigron voted them or vice versa?)
NK thrown onto the town pile but why?
Bella and Comet, reads omigron has struggled with throughout the game, kept in the middle of the pack rather than having to make a call on them

I’ll be back with the readslist iso

Good case.

Intent to hammer.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Roden

Looking forward to your proper return NK15 for further explanation here - not seeing the immediate scumminess in Roden's post here myself. Is it the vote change right before it?

No, it's that it's an attempt to create competing wagons for info openly, a strange thing for Roden to do. I'm rating the probability of town roden to write this very low, and the probability of Roden saying this as Mafia low. So it's definitely scum indicative(but the rest of Roden's ISO is rather null in total, which puts him above Omikron for me, after that case).

[Not Known 15]

Hello - here now! Sorry had some lovely washing machine havoc to deal with.

I see intent to hammer bolded - is there a time limit there/until OMNIGRON posts in response? We still have 3 days left - would ideally prefer we at least wait till 2 but your prerogative.

We must definitely wait for OMNIGRON to respond. Yes, we have 3 days left, but going too close to the end of the day risks losing info, too(if OMNIGRON doesn't show up).

[Not Known 15]

NK15 - Your sole interaction with OMIGRON is regarding his Roden vote - is your intent to hammer because of that?

Clearly not, read the vote again...
VOTE: icet

[Not Known 15]

Wait guys. I have a question.
I understand why AV and Bella want to ice Ice, but why does NK want to? They gave 0 reasoning behind it.
And befire you say I did the same, they are literally second scummiest in my recent readlist after OMI, whose wagon has completely disintegrated and who has claimed PR.

Me voting NK and calling them Mafia Rolecop
:
Can't explain this, it's just how I play! It's a thing I do.

This was the answer to "Rolecop is TMI" and it's not an answer that would make that less AI - the TMI rolecop thing is scum indicative and I see nothing TI in their ISO...

[Not Known 15]

Wait guys. I have a question.
I understand why AV and Bella want to ice Ice, but why does NK want to? They gave 0 reasoning behind it.
And befire you say I did the same, they are literally second scummiest in my recent readlist after OMI, whose wagon has completely disintegrated and who has claimed PR.

Me voting NK and calling them Mafia Rolecop
:
Can't explain this, it's just how I play! It's a thing I do.

This was the answer to "Rolecop is TMI" and it's not an answer that would make that less AI - the TMI rolecop thing is scum indicative and I see nothing TI in their ISO...

Fair.
Another question: why do you post so little? I read over the first few pages of your recent newbie game with Vox, and you were much more active and vocal there, IMO.

busy

[Not Known 15]

Dragon I have had a moment of clarity and I think the fundamental difference in terms of the discussion is you’re suggesting that fmpov “if I’m (dragon) getting off icet because I’m scum and I want to run up another claim” then this means that icet must be town, but you could easily both be scum and neither scenario convinces me that you’re town…

Now one could conclude from that then that I should change my vote to you.

But notice the difference here: I believe icet to be scummy; and although I also view you as scummy (not null!) I still don’t want to shift votes because might out you if you’re a pr (I don’t want that because I’m town) or might fragment the wagons and result in a no-lim (I don’t want that because I’m town)

If the icet wagon was categorically not happening, I’d vote for you. But not before, because of the risks associated as above. Whereas what you’ve done is court those very same scum-desirable risks.

I guess good for you for understanding what I meant? I still don't understand how this makes me scummy... My strategy and priorities are just different to site meta, that's all. Maybe site meta is right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right and site meta is wrong. I don't think in either case using a different strat makes me scummy.
I don't really care if you vote for me honestly because I think the other players all know deep down that I am town. I'm actually going to laugh my ass off if you guys decide to lim me today and realize your mistake as I flip town.

I'm still preferential to an NK wagon, and still would love to see OMI fullclaim. I will vote whichever of these two gets votes.

I'm also still open to hearing what some of the newbies have to say about any suspicions they have of the SE's. I explained why earlier - there's not enough

really

scummy people around in my eyes and it makes me think that one of the obvtown players is actually a scum.

So you have said the following:
1. Icet is town because everyone wants the elimination.
2.there might be scum who is wrongly townread.

I tried to verify 1 but there is one person who did push icet but only voted and then unvoted them once and who now seems to sneakily try to get icet not eliminated.
Patchwork.

Which does fit 2 but not 1.

[Not Known 15]

Can we finally eliminate icet please? Nothing TI whatsoever and a potential scumslip early, de facto claimed not PR... come on...

[Not Known 15]

Why should the other pr claim first in your opinion?

Correction: I did first a partial claimed, nobady else

@OMI, please full claim at your leisure.

It's no necessary

I disagree however, and you'll understand why when OMI fullclaims.

I will try to explain you carefully:

If two people say to have PR, we'll hace two people townie 100%, I mean, We reduce the scum between 5 people.
And de MOST IMPORTANT: without give full information to the scum.

It's very much is. If you are town and think that Salsa is scum, then from your viewpoint by fullclaiming you can prove you are town and we can win. You've got nothing to lose unless you are scum.

That's just plain false, since we can be in Column C.

It's very unlikely we are in column C, but

OMNIGRON should indeed NOT fullclaim.

Claim role, yes. Claim results, not yet.

[Not Known 15]

Here's what has to happen:
Omnigron claims first, but only their role.
If Omnigron claims tracker, then the other PR should claim unless they are a Doctor; in that case the Doctor will not claim today(unless they are about to be eliminated). If OMNIGRON saw someone visiting himself it might have been the killer, but also might have been the Doctor. Outing a doctor here is very antitown.

[Not Known 15]

Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

DragonEater70 have PR, he give free information to the Scum all time.

The scum is not stupid.

Now we need to wait if somebody else say to have PR. We need to wait Salsabil Faria appear.

That's not fucking D1 and that's after you said I have a PR.
You are currently at the top of my scum list until you fullclaim + results/confirmation/whatever.

No results, Dragon. No results.

[Not Known 15]

Claim role yes, results absolutely not.

[Not Known 15]

(at least not if OMNIGRON is what I think he is, a tracker)

[Not Known 15]

You know what, let's start with role, why not.

Yep. OMNIGRON, claim your role.

[Not Known 15]

No stop

[Not Known 15]

STOP.

[Not Known 15]

What we are doing here is not what you all are just wrongly saying.

[Not Known 15]

Now that OMI has claimed tracker, we are doing a claim, yes.

[Not Known 15]

We are doing a claim round of "Not Doctor or Vanilla Townie" and "Doctor or Vanilla Townie".

[Not Known 15]

@NK, if dragon is scum he's backed himself into a corner with his earlier posts, and pushing him for a claim will either out him, or confirm OMI as scum (or at least 1v1 scum vs dragon)

Dragon claiming next is the right move, isn't it?

Yes and no. Dragon is only claiming PR other than Doctor or Not PR/Doctor.

[Not Known 15]

Oooooh

Okay NOW dragons statements don’t make sense to me

Why did omi claim results ._.

Why did Omi vote salsabil

It's because Omi's fucking lying.

Dragon,

STOP.

[Not Known 15]

It doesn't matter if you think OMI is lying or not, Dragon.

[Not Known 15]

We have a waterproof method that will tell us exactly if OMIGRON is lying or not.

[Not Known 15]

Well, it's not fully waterproof but...

[Not Known 15]

Setup Info

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Spoiler: Full Setup List

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Sample Role PMs (click on the spoiler button to reveal)

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Cop

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Cop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive "No Result."

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Mason

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Mason

.

You know that [player] is Town-aligned. You also share a Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You have no active abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town Tracker

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If you are roleblocked, you will receive "No Result."

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Doctor

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Friendly Neighbor

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be sent a message informing them that you are Town-aligned.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

You and your partner, [player], share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive "No Result."

You and your partner, [player], share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome to the game, [player]!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.

You and your partner, [player], share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

This is the setup. That means that if OMI isn't lying we have a Jailkeeper, a Doctor or a Friendly Neighbor.
If there's a Jailkeeper then OMI isn't confirmed. A Jailkeeper has to claim.
If there's a FN then there's no reason to hide that(and it means mafia voluntarily nokilled).
If there's a doctor then the doctor should absolutely not claim.

[Not Known 15]

Now, if we do a claim round of Doc/FN/VT vs claiming other PR except Doctor we have the following results:
A claim conflict happens. We win.
A jailkeeper claims. OMI is not confirmed.
Someone claims FN visit. (Doctor is a claim conflict with FN and would counterclaim there). OMI is confirmed.
No one claims anything other than being either Doc, FN or VT. OMI is

confirmed

because tracker cannot be alone and we don't unnecessarily out a PR.
If we eliminate a townie and town dies at night, then the doc/FT claims. Same for being elimination target.

[Not Known 15]

Dragon goes first, then popcorn.

[Not Known 15]

So Dragon, claim your group:
Group 1: Vanilla Townie/Friendly Neighbor/Doctor
Group 2: Visited by a FN
Group 3: Not Group 1 or 2.

[Not Known 15]

Claim list:

Cometbright - Group ?

DragonEater70 - Group ?

OMIGRON - Group 3 (Tracker)

patchwork - Group ?

Not Known 15 - Group ?

AurorusVox - Group ?

Salsabil Faria - Group ?

Bellaphant - Group ?

Group 1: Vanilla Townie/Friendly Neighbor/Doctor(do not claim your role, just the group)
Group 2: Visited by a FN(Do not claim your role if it is in group 1)
Group 3: Not Group 1 or 2(Please claim your role)

Next claim: DragonEater70

[Not Known 15]

Do NOT claim the FN.

[Not Known 15]

Mr Scum:
Nice to meet you (Roden, Gamma Emerald, Salsabil Faria)

I want to resume what you already know:
- I'm Town Tracker
- DragonEater70 is Town Doctor
- You are Mafia Rolecop.

What will you do with this information in D2?

Bless you.
OMIGRON.

OMI, please stop.
It is not helpful to out people whom you think to be Doctor.

[Not Known 15]

Not claiming my group until Salsa and NK do.
and not saying anything at all until OMI answers my question.

This is not necessary.

[Not Known 15]

I don’t agree with that post, omi

Nor do I. OMI, our goal is to win. Even if that means that several people get nightkilled.
If there's a method that has a higher chance of winning today but a lower chance of winning the game, we won't and shouldn't use it.

[Not Known 15]

Claim list:

Cometbright - Group ?

DragonEater70 - Group ?

OMIGRON - Group 3 (Tracker)

patchwork - Group ?

Not Known 15 -

Group 1

AurorusVox - Group ?

Salsabil Faria - Group ?

Bellaphant - Group ?

Group 1: Vanilla Townie/Friendly Neighbor/Doctor(do not claim your role, just the group)
Group 2: Visited by a FN(Do not claim your role if it is in group 1)
Group 3: Not Group 1 or 2(Please claim your role)

Next claim: DragonEater70

Well, I just claimed(I 'll explain why later). Dragon?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I have PR, DragonEater70 has PR, what's the problem?

Wait what.
Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

I don't know what are you talking about, but on D1 you said that you have PR without saying it. It's something obvious for the scum.

I tracked Salsabil Faria and the results was "visited no one"

Mr Scum:
Nice to meet you (Roden, Gamma Emerald, Salsabil Faria)

I want to resume what you already know:
- I'm Town Tracker
- DragonEater70 is Town Doctor
- You are Mafia Rolecop.

What will you do with this information in D2?

Bless you.
OMIGRON.

Without looking at any other person's posts or claims, does any of you see the glaring inconsistency that I see here? Am I stupid ir what?

I do. It doesn't matter yet.

[Not Known 15]

Thx for the claim NK, waiting on Salsa. Please be patient.

Sorry no.
It's your time to claim. I popcorned to you, not Salsa.

[Not Known 15]

Sorry, I don't know what popcorn means.

What I do know is that I said I won't claim anything until you and Salsa do, and I stand by my word. If you think that's scumny, I really don't know why but go for it.

Popcorn means that one person claims, then decides the person to claim next. That's you.

[Not Known 15]

Claim list:

Cometbright - Group ?

DragonEater70 - Group ?

OMIGRON - Group 3 (Tracker)

patchwork - Group ?

Not Known 15 - Group 1

AurorusVox - Group ?

Salsabil Faria - Group ?

Bellaphant - Group 1

Group 1: Vanilla Townie/Friendly Neighbor/Doctor(do not claim your role, just the group)
Group 2: Visited by a FN(Do not claim your role if it is in group 1)
Group 3: Not Group 1 or 2(Please claim your role)

Next claim: DragonEater70

Popcorn claiming: When you claim you select the next person who's claiming.

[Not Known 15]

Sorry, I don't know what popcorn means. What I do know is that I said I won't claim anything until you and Salsa do, and I stand by my word. If you think that's scumny, I really don't know why but go for it.

Try to learn of Not Known 15 and AurorusVox , they are SE.

Try to understand the correct form to claim. The person who have PR have to say without say what PR have.

Actually it depends on the type of PR they have.
A Doctor or FN hides amongst the Vanilla Townies.
The others don't.

[Not Known 15]

? I don't see it. He thinks they no killed.

I'm.1

No killed AND didn’t use their pr

Sorry I don’t buy it, it’s inconsistent as fk

Yeah. It is. But that doesn't matter. OMI is not the elimination(at least not without being counterclaimed) for today. Not based on play. But based on mechanics.

[Not Known 15]

Sorry, I don't know what popcorn means. What I do know is that I said I won't claim anything until you and Salsa do, and I stand by my word. If you think that's scumny, I really don't know why but go for it.

Try to learn of Not Known 15 and AurorusVox , they are SE.

Try to understand the correct form to claim. The person who have PR have to say without say what PR have.

Actually it depends on the type of PR they have.
A Doctor or FN hides amongst the Vanilla Townies.
The others don't.

Why was wrong my idea who reveal PR the people who have it as a first step? I want to learn!

Well, you claimed Tracker.
A tracker is never alone in this semi-open setup. This means that there is at least one other person, who is a real PR. If that one is incompatible with you we need them to claim.
If it's Jailkeeper we need them to claim to tell us that you are not confirmed, which allows us to eliminate you Day 3 if you are suspect(It tells us that Mafia do not have a Rolecop, which is important info)
If it's anyone else we know you are confirmed and we don't out a PR who doesn't need to be outed at this stage.

If everyone just claims then we unnecessarily out a Doctor who can claim when there are 6 or 5 people left with one mafia remaining. That's the right time, not earlier...

[Not Known 15]

Not Known 15: Yes but... When I propoused to partial claim only saying PR o not PR, I hadn't say anything. Later, You say that I must to do a full claim. Why you don't considered my proposal?

I'd like to explain that after the claim has concluded.

[Not Known 15]

@NK, we’d want a cop (or Mason pair, but that seems super unlikely at this point) to claim too right? As they’d counterclaim omi

Yes, of course. The only type of claims that town must

never

make here is a fakeclaim. You must select the group truthfully if you are town.

[Not Known 15]

But I mean beyond just claiming their group. Or is that the next step after the group game show?

Group 3 immediately fullclaims. There is no reason not to. It's either a Jailkeeper or a game-ending claim.
A Jailkeeper outing themselves would not result in OMI getting eliminated immediately.
There are more mechanics that need to be addressed in a Jailkeeper claim world.

[Not Known 15]

In a Jailkeeper claiming world the target of the Jailkeeper would probably be eliminated after the Jailkeeper has publicly chosen a target.

[Not Known 15]

If there are no other claims than a JK, and that JK targeted omigron:

Either omigron is lying (a JK could be a solo pr)
Or the JK was roleblocked (this would clear Salsa)

Either way, I think salsa is cleared in the above scenario.

Yep. And even in that case we wouldn't eliminate Omi today...

[Not Known 15]

I didn't really understand this part. If someone claims cop for instance, how does this confirm OMI?

It doesn't, Cop is a counterclaim. It tells us that one of these people is lying. Obviously townies don't lie(especially not in this situation). Which means scum loses.

[Not Known 15]

I still want OMI to answer my question before I claim, because I'm sure you all agree that his answer to this wouldn't actually give scum!Dragon any information, but my groupclaim might give scum!OMI information. @OMI, could you please say where specifically you think that I claimed PR (on D1, not talking about D2)? And how does that settle with your theory, if we address the post that I made about your inconsistency? (post #1214)

Sorry man, but I won't answer any question of you, before you colaborate with Not Known 15's methodology.

You need to understand that you can't resolve the game by only you. Remember that vainilla town deserve to have some information for they can resolve the game too.

You only see your point of view.

I already claimed! whereas You haven't say anything to the town people.

The order to say the STEP ONE in Not Known 15's methodology, pay atention to Known 15 here:

Not claiming my group until Salsa and NK do.
and not saying anything at all until OMI answers my question.

This is not necessary.

I invited you to learn of SE players to improve.

I am absolutely not trying to solve the gane by myself, but I am currently suspicious of you and don't want to give you information before you explain yourself. Why is that hard for you to grasp?
I'll claim whether your answer satisfies me or not, but at least I'll know if I should be suspicious of you.

What you are doing is not necessary. Omigron will be dealt with one way or another. You are wasting precious time by not claiming.

[Not Known 15]

Ok, what are we doing now is that Salsa claims role ( and target), and dragon claims target.
I think based on what we know it's Dragon who's lying. If salsa indeed claims FN or doctor that's a 1v1 between dragon and salsa. That's why I want the claims We have ensured a win, now let's wait for the claims to fullclaim so that we can try to win the perfect game result. At this stage we never vote omi here.

[Not Known 15]

Not Known 15's METHODOLOGY

STEP ONE: By Not Known 15
Please select where you are in some of these groups:

GROUP 1

: Vanilla Townie/Friendly Neighbor/Doctor

GROUP 2

: Visited by a Friendly Neighbor

GROUP 3

: Not Group 1 or 2 (You MUST to claim your role)

1. OMIGRON:

GROUP 3

(Town Tracker)
2. DragonEater70:

GROUP 3

(Jailkeeper)
3. Not Known 15:

GROUP 1

4. AurorusVox:

GROUP 1

5. Cometbright:

GROUP 1

6. Bellaphant:

GROUP 1

7. patchwork: They haven't arrived yet
8.

Salsabil Faria

:

GROUP 1

But before that she said she had PR (LoL)

8 isn't actually a laughing matter. Claiming PR in group 1, and fullclaiming, is the correct move if someone claims group 3 PR. It's also definitely not what I expected, lol. Someone made a major misplay here. And it isn't you!

[Not Known 15]

Ok, what are we doing now is that Salsa claims role ( and target), and dragon claims target.
I think based on what we know it's Dragon who's lying. If salsa indeed claims FN or doctor that's a 1v1 between dragon and salsa. That's why I want the claims We have ensured a win, now let's wait for the claims to fullclaim so that we can try to win the perfect game result. At this stage we never vote omi here.

Dragon is only potentially lying is Salsa claims a certain action overnight?

FN and JK exist in the same setup (eg omi could be lying)

Yeah it depends on what Sasabil actually claims. Both doctor and FN claims are possible.

[Not Known 15]

Ok, what are we doing now is that Salsa claims role ( and target), and dragon claims target.
I think based on what we know it's Dragon who's lying. If salsa indeed claims FN or doctor that's a 1v1 between dragon and salsa. That's why I want the claims We have ensured a win, now let's wait for the claims to fullclaim so that we can try to win the perfect game result. At this stage we never vote omi here.

Dragon is only potentially lying is Salsa claims a certain action overnight?

FN and JK exist in the same setup (eg omi could be lying)

And actually another specific set of actions confirms dragon as town and sets the 1v1 between omi and salsa

Well if Salsa claims FN and the target says no and dragon targeted salsa.... yeah that'd make sense, we'd have to elim omi.

[Not Known 15]

That's why I want fullclaims asap atm.

[Not Known 15]

Just a quick and dirty flip-based readlist:

Scumflip:

Comet
Patch/Bella
NK
-
GE
-
Omi*
-
Dragon




Townflip:

Comet
-
Patch/Bella
-
NK/GE
Dragon
-
Omi*

*obviously omi read to be reviewed upon pr fullclaim tomorrow

Also proud that my top four townreads are now in the confTown club with me lol

Sorry dragon if you’re town, as it looks like you are

Yeah apology accepted. My role being what it is is probably half the reason for half my scummy behavior, I was just confident in my ability to self clear.

You can now safely fullclaim.

[Not Known 15]

Based on how OMI reacted and that claiming here is a game-losing mistake for scum, and OMI already had claimed Day 1, we will eliminate Omi.
JK/FN also fits nicely with the rolecop scumslip(just like tracker + FN).

VOTE: OMIGRON

[Not Known 15]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

I don't think you did. However, without a further claim we'd have had JK + tracker claim. I already thought about that scenario. Tell me: what'd you plan if everyone else had claimed VT?
My answer for the correct course of action is

Spoiler:

publicly announce a jailkeep target, omi also

tracks

that target, eliminate sasabil, then ask omi for results next day and eliminate omi(if possible)

[Not Known 15]

Based on how OMI reacted and that claiming here is a game-losing mistake for scum, and OMI already had claimed Day 1, we will eliminate Omi.
JK/FN also fits nicely with the rolecop scumslip(just like tracker + FN).

VOTE: OMIGRON

The only thing is eliminating Salsa 100% ensures victory by D3, whereas eliminating OMI could drag it out to D4.

But yeah I aslo noticed that scum!salsa shouldn't have claimed, but then they did appear to be under pressure.

Did anyone else notice the Roden breadcrumb for being tracker (or at east thinking that Patch is FN) though? I think this kinda undermines the possibility for his successor to be an FN

We'd never lim you Day 3 if you aren't lying - sasa has to FN someone and if it fails or

fails

we just get Sasa. (Ofc, if sasa's FN is confirmed we lim you asap)

[Not Known 15]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

I don't think you did. However, without a further claim we'd have had JK + tracker claim. I already thought about that scenario. Tell me: what'd you plan if everyone else had claimed VT?
My answer for the correct course of action is

Spoiler:

publicly announce a jailkeep target, omi also

tracks

that target, eliminate sasabil, then ask omi for results next day and eliminate omi(if possible)

Actually confused about the reasoning here, could you elaborate?

If it’s just the two pr claims
Salsa is limmed as they were JKd = potential kill blocked

You both target the same person
This confirms them as not mafia if a kill goes through and stops either of you lying if you’re the scum

Why would a tracker track someone who is known to be blocked? They'd get the same result.

If you are tracker and JK the last mafia is a Roleblocker. The Roleblocker could roleblock JK or tracker, but not both. If the mafia is targeted by JK and the roleblocker roleblocks JK roleblock is higher on the list and both the roleblock and the kill go through. Which means that the tracker sees the visits. If the tracker doesn't see something and the JK dies then the target wasn't Mafia because there's only one remaining.
If the tracker gets killed then the JK could have been roleblocked and there are no results, however the tracker is now confirmed town via nightkill and doesn't need to get eliminated.

[Not Known 15]

Well. Sasabil?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Salsa

[Not Known 15]

What Faria did 100% ensured a mafia loss.
That's why we eliminated OMI first.
Claiming here was just wrong for scum.
Yes that's right. The loss chance for scum was over 99,99%, but not 100%...

[Not Known 15]

What Faria did 100% ensured a mafia loss.
That's why we eliminated OMI first.
Claiming here was just wrong for scum.
Yes that's right. The loss chance for scum was over 99,99%, but not 100%...

How many games you win when you're in that 99.99% lose position?

Very very few.

[Not Known 15]

Looking at the game state, Bella vs OMI seem like good competing wagons to me that give us plenty of info to work with.

VOTE: Roden

Yeah that was scum roden talking about two townies

[Not Known 15]

You'd think that it wasn't really a scumslip that ice said Mafia Rolecop when there was none at all, probably, so it was NAI, right? However, this doesn't make it NAI - talking about specific scum roles is something town normally avoid pre-massclaim, and outside of setup speculation.