Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Dio

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dion is obv scum...clearly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dion has so many votes because they're scum.

Patch could be scum, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm a scum hunting master.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The reasoning behind the Herta vote is actually interesting now though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In a sense of scum overcompensating for an RVS vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The reasoning is fine .... if herta had posted before dio

So...not fine then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you make of the reasoning?

In a sense of scum overcompensating for an RVS vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That explanation is so bad that Dion is probably town.

VOTE: Patch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think scum would be that careless

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, sure, scum can be. On this occasion, I don't think that's what it is.

The fact Dion took the time to go through Herta's ISO to try and justify the vote and came up with that explanation makes me think he is town. Town are much more careless about voting than scum are.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not saying Dion is lock town by any means, but given that he already had three votes and there are two of you already pushing that angle, I feel that would be an easy 'in' for scum to come into the game with so I'm backing off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because scum are more aware of their votes than town are.

Look, I feel like I have already over defended Dion on this point and he has now become absent in thread which has made me a little uncomfortable.

I've given my thoughts on what's happened and I'm happy to look elsewhere for the time being.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fluffy entrance

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry everyone, I can't read up tonight but just posting to say I'm here and I don't really like either of the leading wagons so can we do Patch?

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reading and catching up properly now.

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

This read is mad.

Fluffy entrance

it's literally rvs, bffr

My bad man. I didn't realise scum don't enter the game until we're out of RVS.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

also they are an instant townread for this. if im wrong you guys can desecrate my dead body or something but

Was this post serious in terms of the town read?

Patchwork and BBT happy to read as town for now, don't see a mafia motivation for their posts. Kawaii is okay too. Skittles is giving me weird vibes for some reason. Skittles who are you most sus of rn and why aren't you voting them?

I think Patch comes across as a little defensive when responding to my scum read on him, but I'm not sure if it's scummy defensive or just a play style thing yet.

Weird vibes. I think maybe because she seemed a bit too focused for my tastes on arguing that Dio could still be mafia (not that he definitely was, but specifically that he could be), which to me felt a bit like she was trying to keep options open, rather than actually pursuing someone she had a read on. Does that make sense?

It's not strong vibes or anything, but it is weird vibes lol

What does weird vibes mean? Scummy? If it's scummy, just say scummy to avoid any ambiguity. Do you think Skitter was wrong in what they were saying? Do you find it unbelievable Town!Skitter thinks he has something worth pushing?

It just kinda feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill with the Dio thing. To me it feels opportunistic for you to jump on someone and call them scum over something that happened in RVS and I'm not seeing that as a town perspective

Is that not how you catch scum? See something scummy, jump on it and push? What was opportunistic about it?

^ that was to skitter. PW I wasn't a fan of your kawaii vote but I do like how you explained it and even admitted you used the wrong terminology. Your honesty feels kinda townie after looking back over it

I'm not sure how I feel about you interpreting Patch's 'honesty' as townie whilst not seeming to apply that same logic to Dion regarding his vote/read on Herta.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Man, this page is...I don't know what. It feels like there's some real AI shit happening and yet my brain can't work any of it out.

I disagree. Things that happen in RVS are usually NAI in my opinion. I feel like a wolf is more likely to build a case around inconsistencies in RVS, but I suppose you could also be an overzealous townie instead

RVS is most definitely not NAI, %'s make this the case more often than not as default but you'll find town are more likely to pick up on the smallest things in RVS and start progressing the game.

this is an interesting analysis but I don't sr skitter for this at all. It doesn't read as particularly overzealous to me.

I don't like this post. Feels appeasy.

VOTE: Empathice

I did like this.

VOTE: skitter30

We can go this route first if you'd prefer.

This doesn't make sense given your previous post.

Defending your scum buddies hard. I Didn't like their pivot.

What didn't you like about it?

Welcome to the game!

UNVOTE: Empathice

I don't like this. What was the point of the vote in the first place, Dion?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Creating a reason for voting someone after being questioned about your vote. If you were town and actually hunting, you would not presuppose that something about Herta is scummy when questioned.

There would be a chance that you conflated a read on Herta with your RVS vote, however that is not what you said. You said you looked for a read on them after you were questioned.

I Don't believe TWTBAW (Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf) applies in this case either IMO.

Skitter, remember this;

I'm not saying Dion is lock town by any means, but given that he already had three votes and there are two of you already pushing that angle, I feel that would be an easy 'in' for scum to come into the game with so I'm backing off.

I feel like this fits Empathice perfectly.

also readlist coming soon

Why announce this instead of, you know, just doing it?

Bbt/kawaii townish
Maybe black too
Patchwork/empathice
You

Others are null

Couple of reads off but you're town enough for D1.

@bbt i would consider voting patch too tbh

I welcome you aboard the Patch train. Heading to scumville!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

it was just to generate a discussion. Something I think was successful. But I fail to see what is scummy about it? Like what would the scum motivation even be there?

I dismissed the scumread on you being kind of overzealous on me but I'm reevaluating that now tbh. I haven't been able to post anything this game without you suggesting it is scummy.

Aww man, this is like the 7 stages of being scum. First, appease. Second, fight back. Then, give up... etc etc.

I really don't like this. Your every move doesn't need to be scum motivated - I read your initial vote as town. A new player enters the game, you vote to apply early pressure and to see what happens kind of thing...then you immediately remove it and I was left feeling meh about the whole thing.

I had a thought that maybe empathice/dio could be partners but maybe empathice is town

I'm trying hard to hold onto my Dion town read because my early intuitions are usually much better than my actual analysis play but man, they're making it difficult. I can see this being a pair with the weird vote/unvote thing that happened.

I don't really find dionysus scummy. Maybe a bit townie for admitting a mistake like that but maybe just barely.

Nice, reading it the same way as me. Town points for you.

Why announce ?

Nice. More town points for you.

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town. Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts but they can easily talk themselves into a corner by being so open early on. My only issue is that a couple of his reads (skitter, patchwork) seem to mimic my own but I don't necessarily find this scummy, just notable. Also I think kawaii just might be newtown. That's the vibes I'm getting so far at least

Umm, yeah, hard disagree. I think Dion's post is extremely easy to make as scum and has an IIoA (information instead of analysis) feel to it, it's basically a running commentary of the game with a reads-list attached at the end for those extra townie points. These types of posts generally work well in Newbie games as looking town.

Meh, maybe Skitter was right after all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you justified your thoughts of Town/Mafia or Mafia/Town and there was no inclination of Town/Town at all.

Again, why did it feel like a Town/Mafia interaction as opposed to a Town/Town interaction. How do you differentiate between them?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree with Dion.

Town reads on Patch because 'long post' are bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Skitter, you're viewing this game really hard through a Scum!Dion lens.

I'd like you to drop it and look elsewhere please. Why did the patches wagon disintegrate?

Black has joined my town reads, too. Like their push on Empathice and not a fan of Empathice's tunneling on Dio.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you respond to my address to you in post #200 now if you're caught up? I Was trying to talk to you about your TR on Dion.

Nope.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@bbt tbh i really don't know where scum is if it isnt dio

I can give you a hint?

Rhymes with 'batch lurk'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm caught up Empathice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thunderdome isn't really a thing and never happens practically.

I guess it sounds really townie to suggest though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Kawaii, can I get a run down of where you're at currently?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, just some general reads/thoughts on current game state.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That Hadrian read is wild, but other than that your reads are generally aligned with mine.

I like that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My pool is narrowing.

Happy to elim within Patch, Herta, Hadrian and Empathice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Coming up to 20 pages as well which is usually a good time to start looking at pushing some serious wagons and getting claims.

It's unfortunate that we have two players who have barely contributed within these 18 pages though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pagetop?

For me?

Why you shouldn't have!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You gave the reason in your own post.

Hadrian hasn't contributed much but they sit in your town reads. Wild.

I think Empath thinks that Thunderdoming someone will make them look town and it appears to have worked. It doesn't happen in reality and I don't think I have ever seen one actually go through in all my time on this site.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry Patch, that was to Kawaii, not you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Furtive,

Did you replace into a scum slot my friend?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I thought so Furtive.

That's a god damn shame.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Holy shit, a 43 page D1 in a Newbie.

I don't want to read the last 15 pages or so...someone give me a quick run down?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright.

Still happy to elim Patch and still think Dion is town.

We should probably try and progress this game at some point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've provided plenty, what are you talking about?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I bet the last 15 pages is the game going around in the same circles that it was 15 pages before.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

D1 has passed it's sell by date. Time to move forward.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

57 pages and counting

Good stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT anything to say?

Not really, no.

Was kind of hoping this Day would be done by now. Any useful information from D1 we potentially had is just being drowned out by noise at this point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sounds like a skill issue to be honest.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what ig means.

Thank me after we flip Patch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT why are you like this

Rephrase?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I had to google that word...

I'm not sure I have been? Excluding recent posts obviously.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive, I think you know as well as I do that prolonging this Day is at the very, very best antitown but it's actually just +scum.

Useful information is being lost in pages upon pages of complete drivel or restating of things that were happening literally 30 pages ago. There is a term for it I think but I can't remember what it is but basically all of the noise and rehashing of same arguments is back for town and good for scum because it causes apathy within town of having to read the same things over and over.

Like, let's get the day done and move on. ISO'ing people again this game is already going to be the most tedious thing ever.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't believe any of that to be true.

But you do you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I take offence to being called a lurker.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Big difference between original discussion and repetitive discussion.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Two wagons with claims is pro-town IMO.

The problem is that it's just way too late in the Day to do that. Had we pushed a wagon decently around page 20, when I suggested it, we would have had time to then reevaluate and create more information with a separate wagon if we felt like that's what was needed.

All we have managed to do so far is be split among a few different wagons without any actually being pushed to where it will be useful to look back on later in the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah Kawaii, I didn't make myself very clear there at all.

I shouldn't have said time because I don't mean time, I meant more in terms of the Day having dragged on for too long already and us already being at 61 pages which is absolutely insane. It's more like a large than a micro game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

69 pages and still we go.

Good stuff. Good stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Emp is E-1?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Emp

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Kawaii is town, no?

Also, can we elim Patch now?

VOTE: Patch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like to point out that Patch is unreasonably angry with me for hamming a wagon that they put to E-1.

Feels forced.

PEdit - If only I had the hammer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hamming a wagon.

Good stuff. Time for sleep.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, I'm happy to vote Kawaii but like...can we not do me after if we're right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Apologies for not getting around to this everyone, really struggling for time.

Will try my best to get to this today

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spoiler: D1 VCs with flips

VoteCount 1.4

patchwork

[ 3 ]

BluebloodedToffee, skitter30, black

Dionysus

[ 3 ]

Hadriaaan

,

Empathice

, kawaiikame

KawaiiKame [ 2 ]

Patchwork

,

Dionysus

Not Voting [ 1 ]

Herta

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

VoteCount 1.5

Dionysus

[ 3 ]

Hadriaaan

,

Empathice

, kawaiikame

patchwork

[ 2 ]

BluebloodedToffee,

dionysus

Not Voting [ 4 ]

Herta,

Patchwork

, skitter30, black

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

MS Tips and Tricks!

There are tons of different games to play when you venture outside the newbie queue. Games are divided by size (micro, mini, large) and by theme (normal mafia or werewolf flavor with standardized roles or any theme and any mechanics of the mods choosing. My favorite kind of game is a mini theme.

VoteCount 1.7

Empathice

[ 3 ]

Black,

dionysus

kawaiikame

Dionysus

[ 2 ]

skitter30,

empathice

Herta (SE) [ 1 ]

Hadriaaan

patchwork

[ 1 ]

BluebloodedToffee

Not Voting [ 2 ]

Herta,

Patchwork

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

VoteCount 1.8

Dionysus

[ 3 ]

skitter30,

empathice

, furtiveglance

Empathice

[ 2 ]

dionysus

, kawaiikame

Furtiveglance (SE) [ 1 ]

Hadriaaan

patchwork

[ 1 ]

BluebloodedToffee

Not Voting [ 2 ]

Patchwork

, black

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

VoteCount 1.9

patchwork

[ 4 ]

BluebloodedToffee, furtiveglance,

dionysus

,

empathice

Empathice

[ 3 ]

kawaiikame, black,

patchwork

Furtiveglance (SE) [ 1 ]

Bewolkt

Dionysus

[ 1 ]

skitter30

Not Voting [ 0 ]

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

Sorry for going so many pages without a vc. I'm sort of v/la this weekend.

VoteCount 1.10

patchwork

[ 2 ]

BluebloodedToffee,

dionysus

Dionysus

[ 2 ]

skitter30, furtiveglance

Empathice

[ 2 ]

black,

patchwork

BlueBloodedToffee (SE) [ 1 ]

bewolkt

Not Voting [ 2 ]

empathice

, kawaiikame,

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

VoteCount 1.11

patchwork

[ 4 ]

BluebloodedToffee,

dionysus

, furtiveglance,

empathice

Empathice

[ 2 ]

black,

bewolkt

BlueBloodedToffee (SE) [ 1 ]

patchwork

Dionysus

[ 1 ]

skitter30

Not Voting [ 1 ]

kawaiikame

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

VoteCount 1.12FINAL

Empathice

[ 5 ]

black,

bewolkt

, kawaiikame,

patchwork

, BluebloodedToffee

patchwork

[ 2 ]

dionysus

, furtiveglance,

Dionysus

[ 1 ]

skitter30

Not Voting [ 1 ]

empathice

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline:(expired on 2023-02-28 21:26:00)

Empathice is eliminated.

Alright, no analysis yet but posting this to refer back to after a couple of ISO's from D1 and Dion from D2.

Furtive, a couple of questions if I may.

How serious is your Scum!Black concern?
Have you ISO'd Dion from D2?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For me, one of Black/Kawaii are likely to be scum because of EoD1 wagon. With so much choice, scum didn't need to double up on an elim so I would expect one on and one off. I don't think Black/Kawaii can be scum together and, above all else, I think Kawaii is town.

Also, every single serious wagon on D1 was on town which suggests that scum had good control of thread with a good presence - again, this leads to Black.

I think if it's Furtive/Skitter we have lost and if Skitter is scum then I just say well played.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT always fits any scumteam by way of deliberately never efforting in a game to keep his meta very bland.

This isn't true and I don't think you really think this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, that can be proved false just by reading my previous games.

I really, really, really, hate to self-meta but I'm going to do it anyway. You will find that I try hard in every single game that I'm scum in, because I feel more pressure to win. As town, there is enough people for me to not really effort and get away with it. I find the game more enjoyable as scum than town, too.

I want to negate that by also saying I could very easily not try hard as scum so as to manipulate my meta but I don't think enough players in this game would know how I play for that to be effective here.

It's self meta though, so, yeah.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, what was Dionysus' check if not a red on Kawaii

Did you ISO Dion?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The one I want to pursue first today is definitely kawaii.

Yh this looks like a guilty to me

The implication is I am guilty, but this is only a pursuit, if dion got a guilty on me why not say I'm guilty straight up? That would end the need to pursue me and vote me immediately, undoing the patch vote on the spot

If they say guilty straight up, then it confirms their death. If it's just a 'push' they possibly get one more check in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I highly doubt it's Black but it is weird how she has yet to be night killed...

This is a great point.

Black should have died N1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If patch flips town there is definitely scum in black/kawaii/Bewolkt.

This post is interesting in the context of Dion possibly checking one of these N1 but this caught my eye...

Unvote patch. I now think they are town.

I am quite confident. But this is mafia until the flip happens we can never be certain

I think this is an inno on Patch and I also think Patch makes more sense as a N1 target than anyone else in the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive not mentioning the above makes me squint

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Give me another reason for his 180 on Patch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're talking as if D2 was long enough for anything else to happen as well.

It was super quick, not a lot of time for Dion, or anyone else, to say a whole lot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Red on Kawaii made him reconsider

Why would that effect his Patch read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I need Skitter to come into the game.

I think this is solved.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I don't think noob scum make that hammer play.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Skitter and Kawaii's votes were really awkwardly placed at EoD1...mehhhhhhh

Why is Kawaii scum, Furtive?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's pretend a Cop didn't exist.

Why is Kawaii scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't really think Kawaii is scummy if there's no cop

Good.

So, shall we talk about Black now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, can I get a quick rundown of where you're at?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Unvote patch. I now think they are town.

Well fuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Furtive knew this was an inno.

I'm really struggling to understand Furtive's switch to guilty on Kawaii from inno on Patch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's not what he said. He said this;

I am quite confident. But this is mafia until the flip happens we can never be certain

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive, talk to me about Black.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Having said that with the benefit of hindsight I still think we should have just hammered patch because we wouldn't have lost a more valuable role than empath but we would have kept empath's, uh, better scumhunting. Plus with the benefit of hindsight ig we now know emp was town

but with patch we still don't know for sure.

What is this?!

I don't know what Dion was doing. I think I'm going to have to exclude cop checks from reads because he is all over the place.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm doubting myself now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Kawaii