Newbie 2117 | Postgame

[BlueSnakelet]

Hi! I'm NothingNew's replacement. I'll be catching up over the next few minutes.

[BlueSnakelet]

Spoiler: Wiz's Iso

Hello all! I'm excited to play this with yall! This seems like a fun group of players!! (I say that, but idk anyone except one hahaha) but it's ok, I don't have to know you to look forward to the game!
Yall are very quiet... HELLO DARKNESS MY OLD FRIEND

hahaha nah, but on a real note I'd love to get to know a bit about yall! I'm just kinda curious how long yall have been playing mafia, your favorite role or alignment to be, and pronouns to call you by, cause I don't think many of you have pronouns listed on the site (and I'd like to refer to you correctly!)

I'll start, I'm Andante, I use she/her pronouns, been playing mafia for like 11 years, I'm from chat mafia, fast paced games, and have been around here for about 2 years. I'd say I prefer playing as mafia because it's a little easier to have "good" reads lol versus town, it's like "uhhhh you! no wait, you!!" hahaha

Hi, I'm WizKvothe. I use he/him pronouns. I have been playing mafia since like three years. Reddit is my origin site where I play mafia alongwith MU, Hangs, FoL. My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town. Also, I'm used to playing 24/48 hours phases so I'm not sure how am I going to handle 10 day phases which is very long imo. It could take months for a game to end. I wish there was a game with short phases on here.

Hey, why would you vote for me? Because I'm Polish? Kinda disappointed, since I use Python too

Wiz, why is mafia your favorite alignment? You enjoy manipulating?

I used to enjoy being an informed minority but as I continued playing I found it's hard for me to lie so now I always wish to be a town.

Wiz, I don't like your answer at all, sounds sketchy, you stopped enjoying lying overnight?

And usesPython: your answer just let me realize that you're a scum and want to put me into queue to get lynched, while you can keep manipulating the town

I'm not saying that. I used to like mafia but as I said that as I continued playing like 20 to 30 games, I realised lying is hard for me so now I just prefer town.

also: why I would vote already, if the day lasts ten days?

wiz, you don't make sense at all, you say I'm scared of getting into a fight while SIMULTANEOUSLY accusing me of casting shade on others?

Umm ....when did I say that? I think you are mixing people here.

My favourite alignment is mafia tho things have changed and I now prefer to be town

If lying is hard for you then why do you still consider mafia your favorite alignment? Is it still your favorite despite you not liking it that much anymore?

No, it's not mafia anymore plus I don't see discussing this is beneficial...lol

In my previous games votes would be hidden, so that's why I haven't voted for you.

I see you as a scum now, I'll observe you and see if you greenify yourself.

Hidden votes seems crazy

This feels a little "you think I'm scum so I think you're scum" to me

What can we call you brzeczyszczykiewicz? My mind wants to call you breeze for some reason

My origin site on reddit also has hidden votes so it's not impossible.

No, it's not mafia anymore plus I don't see discussing this is beneficial...lol

I guess I'm just confused why you said mafia is your favorite if it's not anymore

And re: hidden votes, I wasn't really saying it was impossible. I just don't think I would enjoy playing that way tbh

Alright, I will explain why I said mafia first. It's because on MU site I had written "mafia" as my fav alignment so I thought you could argue that I had set that alignment on MU(if you saw me there) so I thought it's safe to say mafia first otherwise you might think I was lying if i had said town. Btw, the MU profile is updated to reflect town now. Hope I made sense....lol

also can I just say, Reddit has mafia?? I have never even heard of that lol that’s kinda cool!!!

Search r/HiddenWerewolves formerly known as r/HogwartsWerewolves. Play with us sometimes there...lol

This slot has been active, but has mostly only made comments about or responded to NAI things. Efforts to game-solve are nonexistent. Very much a "sideline" player just watching the other players go at it. Very scummy.

VOTE: Wiz

So far Wiz has been under fire because of the NAI things, so he's done nothing but respond to them. I find this justified behavior. He's hardly a "sideline" player just "watching the other players go at it".

[BlueSnakelet]

VOTE: Chao

He's done nothing of value other than blatantly sheep Brian's read on Wiz. Feels like scum aiming for an easy D1 lim.

[BlueSnakelet]

Hello Blue! The person you replaced claimed scum...is this true?

I wish.

[BlueSnakelet]

VOTE: Chao

He's done nothing of value other than blatantly sheep Brian's read on Wiz. Feels like scum aiming for an easy D1 lim.

You're basically just sheeping Python here, doing exactly what you're voting Wiz for.

I made that read on my own while while I was catching up, before I got to Wiz vote on Chao. Regardless of what it looks like, this is my read and I'm sticking to it.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry guys, gals and non-binary pals, but I really can't think of something to try and pursue. My read on Python and Brz at the start was nothing more than a feeling about a mexican standoff between them, which early on might be sus as mafia might try to point fingers towards themselves to distance between them. Yet, I don't think anything I could meaningfully ask you both to clarify on this position rather than, that. Was that crossed fire justifiable so early in the thread, at a RVS?
After that I've been lost. I don't really know how to help, my lack of experience shows. And I get it, this added to the sheeping (due to nervousness) is what usually has got me killed early on in other games, and why I went away from the game for a long time. I just didn't remember it until I kind of lived it again here.
I've read the thread a couple of times and really don't know what to think, I might be too dumb for this game. Sorry again =)

Can't you give any reads at all? Even a gut feeling would help. Don't worry about being wrong, people are wrong in this game all the time.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry for the lack of activity, I'm not "hiding", I've been busy. I'll re-read the thread tomorrow morning (it's midnight here) and see if I can get a read on someone by myself and post it.

Hey! Looks like we're in the same timezone.

Glad to see I didn't scare you away from the game.

While you re-read the thread, can you form a read on Brian? I really want to hear your thoughts on him.

[BlueSnakelet]

Hint: Use the "Preview" button to see what your post will look like after you post it.

A few things here. First it's an early random vote and they pick a fight with each other. Second, brz mistakes usesPython for WizKvothe (this might be important later)

I really don't see how. It doesn't matter if someone makes a mistake if it's a mistake they could make as either alignment.

Yet, only half a day later, after his "flips" question, he throws the term around super casually, like he knew the term and has used it all his life. Yes, he might have learnt it and wanted to show that, but also it might be a slip-up in his "naive and new to the game" persona he's showing.

I don't think that's a slip. It's not that hard for someone to quickly pick up how to use a certain term are used by watching someone else use them.

I agree with the rest of your case against brz, I just don't think those two parts really matter.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry for the lack of activity, I'm not "hiding", I've been busy. I'll re-read the thread tomorrow morning (it's midnight here) and see if I can get a read on someone by myself and post it.

Hey! Looks like we're in the same timezone.

Glad to see I didn't scare you away from the game.

While you re-read the thread, can you form a read on Brian? I really want to hear your thoughts on him.

Also, I really need to hear your thoughts on Brian.

[BlueSnakelet]

Hint: Use the "Preview" button to see what your post will look like after you post it.

A few things here. First it's an early random vote and they pick a fight with each other. Second, brz mistakes usesPython for WizKvothe (this might be important later)

I really don't see how. It doesn't matter if someone makes a mistake if it's a mistake they could make as either alignment.

Yet, only half a day later, after his "flips" question, he throws the term around super casually, like he knew the term and has used it all his life. Yes, he might have learnt it and wanted to show that, but also it might be a slip-up in his "naive and new to the game" persona he's showing.

I don't think that's a slip. It's not that hard for someone to quickly

pick up how to use a certain term by watching someone else use it.

I agree with the rest of your case against brz, I just don't think those two parts really matter.

EBTWOP: I worded that awfully, sorry.

[BlueSnakelet]

I really don't see how. It doesn't matter if someone makes a mistake if it's a mistake they could make as either alignment.

If he thinks it's a preplanned scum vs scum fight then mistaking the name could come from brz thinking I'd be the only person responding. It's NAI to us because we know we're town but that's the line of thought he seems to be going for?

I didn't thought of that. Is this true, chao?

[BlueSnakelet]

I didn't

think

of that. Is this true, chao?

EBTWOP: Sorry, I just can't English today.

[BlueSnakelet]

@Blue: Why is it so important that Chao gives you their thoughts on Brian, when you're yet to clearly indicate your own thoughts on them?

I have a hunch. But I'm not going into details before hearing chao's side.

I do TR his latest developments, I'm just waiting on this one thing before unvoting him.

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm going to have to insist that you sit down and be patient. This shouldn't take more than we have in the deadline. You can wait.

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't think so. Apart from a fairly spotty view on Chao, Blue (Blue's slot, in fact) hasn't contributed anything of note, and I don't know how they feel, not only about Brian, but about yourself Black, about me, about Python, and everyone else in the game.

So yeah, with the slot having gone 4 days without saying anything of note, I think it's pretty reasonable to insist that they offer something.

And I'm going to. I plan to. Just not right now.

[BlueSnakelet]

Ninja'd: Unless you also have a SR on Chao, I disagree that Chao's answer has to come before Blue's.

Then for now, let's just agree to disagree.

I'm off to read the ISO's of other players (other than Brian and chao) in the meantime. Cheers!

[BlueSnakelet]

OK, I believe this summarize my thoughts:

Black and Python: The two players who are getting the most stuff done and I have nothing to say against them.

Andante: Her play seems to be "I'll be chaotic and generate discussion about myself", so she could attract reads and move the game forward. It worked, a lot of useful interactions were born from this chaos. And I think she would be more careful about drawing attention to herself if she were Mafia. The tunnel on Black is weird, but I fail to see how would Scum!Andante would benefit from that. Black doesn't seem like she would be an easy target.

Wiz/Delta: I have no problems with Wiz's slot before getting replaced. Then Delta immediately rushed in, guns blazing, pressing on a point I was very clear I wouldn't be giving in. I guess that's probably just his scum hunting style? He just replaced in, so I don't have much of an opnion.

Mala: Even though she's been here from the start, we barely saw anything from her. We got some reads, but I don't see anything special in them except her defending of Andante (not a straight TR, she just defended her from Black's SR). I feel like Scum!Mala would just let Andante be executed UNLESS we have a MalaXAndante team, witch is possible but I doubt it. Ultimately, I need to see more of Mala to pin down a solid read.

brz: They have done some questionable things in this game. I want to say it's just a clash of the meta they're used to with the Mafia Scum meta. But chao raised some good points about brz faking incompetence. I feel this could go either way.

chao and Brian: TBD

[BlueSnakelet]

Yeah, I also don't want to execute anyone until I hear from chao again. I'll be willing to hammer after that.

[BlueSnakelet]

[...]

and I find it highly scummy that someone is willing to end D1 so early without even sharing their thoughts on people.

...

But I did... I'm just missing two people.

And I'm in no rush to end the day, I thought I made this point clear in my last post?

[BlueSnakelet]

I guess I need to clarify some things.

When chao finally answer my question, I'll talk about it, complete my readlist and only then, if everyone else is okay with it, I'll agree with a day end.

All I have is a hunch. I'm not even sure if I'm right, that's why I called it a hunch. All I want is to hear chao's opnion without having it be tainted by mine, so I may enforce or discard my hunch.

This isn't some grandmaster gambit of great importance. In fact, it's quite unimportant. I wanted to resolve it quietly way back in #271. It's unfortunate that it has escalated to the extent it did.

[BlueSnakelet]

Do you have further questioning, BlueSnakelet?

Nah, it's fine. I'm quite over it already. UNVOTE: chao

So... my hunch. I'm sure some people might have figured out already, but I was investigating a possible BrianXchao team.

I was suspicious of Brian's #137, where he townread chao's #38, which I don't think it was warranted (chao's analysis in #38 was pretty basic and easy to fake). chao didn't have enough townreadable content in his ISO at that point, so Brian's read felt forced.

Then there's Brian's #201/202, where he calls me out for voting chao. His reasoning was fair, but it did leave me scratching my head. "It looks like Brian is more than ready to jump at chao's defense" I thought.

At point, I was theorizing a BrianXchao scum team, but I wasn't convinced yet. The evidence I found was all in Brian's actions, I needed something from chao as well. That was what I was trying to flush out by asking chao to talk about Brian.

As for my reads. Brian stills looks sketch. Specially with:

I see the wagon.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Brian doesn't know how to respond to the wagon, so he's trying to play it off.

As for chao... Don't worry, you're fine.

I realize now that I handled it all really poorly. I'm not proud of it anymore.

[BlueSnakelet]

Now's a great time to renew the

E-1

.

VOTE: Brian

[BlueSnakelet]

As much as I like the Brian wagon I’m not entirely sure I like the fast buildup without my vote

Out of Python, Delta, Black and me, who do you suspects the most?

[BlueSnakelet]

I also kind of don't like that response from Blue. It feels more reactionary and I feel like it's the kind of question someone would ask to judge the read on themselves than a genuine interest in the read, because Mala didn't indicate that they actually thought anyone on the wagon was scum? To assume that Mala suspects any of the people on the wagon seems to be an assumption that town wouldn't have.

Mala said:

As much as I like the Brian wagon I’m not entirely sure I like the fast buildup without my vote

This implies that Mala thinks there's at least a possibility that there's something nefarious about Brian's wagon (right, Mala?). I want her to elaborate on this possibility.

Also, what do you mean by "reactionary"? And why is it a bad thing? As far as I know, most things in a game of Mafia are "reactions" to what came before it.

[BlueSnakelet]

It doesn't read as proactive and game-solving/scum hunting. It reads as a reaction.

Why can't it be both? #379 also reads as a reaction, but I wouldn't say it's not scum hunting.

[BlueSnakelet]

379 is immediately followed up with a query in 380, and furthermore was a post that saw something I didn't agree with, outlined it and allowed 380 to query it.

Your post didn't do this, and seemed more concerned with identifying a scumread on you than anything else.

Ok, I can see what you mean. I don't agree with it, but I can see it.

Nevertheless, I still expect Mala to answer my question.

[BlueSnakelet]

I've liked what I have seen from Kame so far. Definitively pushes brz's slot to the towny side.

The non-Brian player I'm suspecting the most right now is Mala, by process of elimination mostly.

[BlueSnakelet]

blue posting recently, I forgot blue was here, that slot is very likely scum I think. Blue + Brian.

can I hammer brian or are we still waiting on someone for something?

Why am I scum?

[BlueSnakelet]

@Andante, do you have a reason to not say what your role is, even though you already claimed PR?

[BlueSnakelet]

I'm doubtful of Andante's claim. Day 2 started with Delta tunneling her. To get out of it, she claimed PR, which is an unfalsifiable statement until she actually says what her role is. Even if we have two town PRs, they would have no way to counterclaim it. And Andante wants us to assume she's town because of it?

VOTE: Andante

[BlueSnakelet]

Andante is trying to finagle her way into a Delta X Black X Andante voting block.

[BlueSnakelet]

If Andante is a town PR, she'll either be NK or she'll be roleblocked from now on, now that she already claimed PR.

Unless she's a Mason in A3, now I realize.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, Andante. I was out of line.

UNVOTE: Andante

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't think Delta is Mafia. I don't think his progression Today could have come from scum.

I believe both scum are in chao, Mala and Kame. I'd need to study their ISOs to formulate a better read on each.

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't think his progression Today could have come from scum

Can you elaborate?

I'm talking about the 180º he did from accusing Andante to defending Andante against me, trying to stop Andante from full claiming. I think Scum!Delta would instead let Andante claim, and then go after me. He could make the argument that he was simply not online before that.

[BlueSnakelet]

Spoiler: Black

I don't think his progression Today could have come from scum

Can you elaborate?

I'm talking about the 180º he did from accusing Andante to defending Andante against me, trying to stop Andante from full claiming. I think Scum!Delta would instead let Andante claim, and then go after me. He could make the argument that he was simply not online before that.

What's your reason for thinking scum Delta would do this? Wolves try to act as townie as possible and it's textbook townie to keep the PR from claiming. It wouldn't make sense for scum!Delta to keep pushing Andante after the claim and defending the PR/discouraging them from giving more info is an easy position for a wolf to take. I did it as scum in my last newbie game
[/quote]

Because letting Andante claim would definitely benefit Mafia, and Delta wasn't at risk of being suspected at that point (Andante had already said she would push people that aren't you, she and Delta). There wasn't too much to gain by stopping Andante's claim.

[BlueSnakelet]

There wasn't too much to gain by stopping Andante's claim

I disagree. It definitely earned him town points in your eyes, to the point where you don't even think he could be a wolf anymore. I'd say he gained a lot from that position if he's a wolf here wouldn't you?

I guess you're right. I still think we should lim in Mala, chao, Kame Today, but doing so through a lens of "who would make a great partner for Delta" will add a layer of security.

In the meantime, however, I'll help Andante push Mala. She's been the lurkiest of the lurkers, and I really want to hear her speak.

[BlueSnakelet]

VOTE: MalaKittens

[BlueSnakelet]

So are you now taking the view that I'm scum, blue? #590 is super unclear and I get the sense that you're just sheeping now and going with the flow.

Can you also justify why Black isn't in your limpool? I'm not saying they necessarily should be, but I want to know why you don't think they should be.

No, I'm just accepting that you

might

be scum. If I really though you were scum, you would be in my limpool.

My townread on Black stayed intact since D1.

[BlueSnakelet]

A big ping that sets me off on both of these is that after putting Brian at E-1, Blue doesn't mention Brian again. They also never pursued their scumread on them or tried to do any convincing - they voted Chao for 'sheeping Brian', and they then voted Brian after the whole Chao/Brian TBD argument but they never actually go into why Brian should be limmed - it was just assumed. Seriously, go to their ISO, Control+F 'Brian' and see how many times they mention them without ever actually trying to convince others of their scumread, or asking Brian any questions. The only one is in #357, which with the benefit of hindsight is a particularly flimsy case that kind of echoed very general Brian wagon sentiments.

I've got no defense against this. After getting nowhere in my pursuit of BrianXchao, I just sort of give up. I really did vote Brian because he was the most scumread player, and I really wanted it to be right.

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't have one.

[BlueSnakelet]

Can you justify a reason why I oughtn't tunnel you until you're eliminated?

I'm town.

I need you to justify your read on Mala now as well, please. Kawaii has lurked more so your current reason is factually inaccurate.

By the time I voted Mala, we knew she had been online (she had posted a meaningless joke), and yet she didn't comment on anything that was happening.

And Kame gave us more useful info Day 1 too, that's why I considered Mala a lurkier lurker.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, I didn't read the thread to make sure what I was saying is correct. In my head, I had voted Mala way earlier.

I did really did think she was lurking for the reason I described.

And no, I'm not going to unvote Mala just because she talked a little bit. I want more from her.

[BlueSnakelet]

I want her to give opnions on whatever is happening at this moment.

I see that she has already started pushing me. If she's seriously scumhunting, she should give her opnions on this little interrogation and my answers without much prompting.

[BlueSnakelet]

This is my third game playing with strangers on the internet. Most of my Mafia experience comes from playing real time games (games with a 24-Hour day-night cicle) through texting apps with people I know in real life.

[BlueSnakelet]

I still think he's town.

[BlueSnakelet]

I might be biased, but in my very first scum game I just had to sit back while really opnionated townies pushed miselimination wagons. I think Delta is this game's really opnionated townie, and the Mafia is just sitting back while he pushes people.

[BlueSnakelet]

My very first scum game

on this site

.

[BlueSnakelet]

UNVOTE:

@furtive, I'm going to be on V/LA until Wednesday.

I claim Vanilla Townie.

[BlueSnakelet]

Why would Blue claim at E-2?

Because I might get E-1 sometime while I'm away. I'm claiming just in case.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, I came back later than I expected. I'm still catching up, one moment...

[BlueSnakelet]

So Black and Delta are willing to gambit their own eliminations to get the other... I don't like this one bit. There's a non-negligible chance that this is TvT, which would be disastrous.

Is it too late to revive the Mala wagon? I believe she's scum whether or not Delta is scum.

VOTE: Mala

[BlueSnakelet]

chaodck is being replaced. The deadline will be extended by a day to reflect this. This will be shown in the next VC and it will render all previous VCs incorrect countdown-wise. Hope this doesn't confuse people too much.

Deadline: 1 day, 1 hour, 38 minutes

[BlueSnakelet]

Is it too late to revive the Mala wagon? I believe she's scum whether or not Delta is scum.

I'm starting to think this too kinda. Do you think I could be right about a mala/Delta team? Who would mala's partner be if it's not Delta?

I have two solid townreads in you and Andante. I don't think Scum!Andante would fake claim TFN like that, and I don't think Scum!Black would try to fake gambit her own elimination like that.

Mala's partner should be in Delta, chao, Kame.

[BlueSnakelet]

Can we get a sound off who is about tomorrow?

I'll be here to witness the deadline.

[BlueSnakelet]

Mala's partner should be in Delta, chao, Kame.

I think in your most recent Delta read you said he's not scum because scum wouldn't have the progression he had D2. Do you still feel this way?

I do not.

I townread him before mostly because of a bias of mine. I thought his aggressive behavior was inherently town indicative. But it wouldn't be really that difficult to play aggressively as scum.

[BlueSnakelet]

Mala is my preferred elimination, but I will hammer Delta if I have to.

[BlueSnakelet]

Delta, do you have a case against Kawaii that goes beyond "well, they're either scum or anti-town and should be eliminated regardless"?

[BlueSnakelet]

Can I point out that in #867, Blue says that there is a 'Non-negligable chance' that Black and I are TvT - and that in #622-623, they actively townread me.

Saying that there's a "non-negligable chance" that your town isn't what you would call a "townread", is it?

And I no longer townread you for the reason I stated in #623-624. I said that already in #901.

[BlueSnakelet]

That Jailkeeper claim is probably bogus. I refuse to believe Scum!Andante would claim Town Friendly Neighbor with a 2/3 chance of being counterclaimed immediately. Plus, that "crumbing" doesn't look intentional.

[BlueSnakelet]

That Jailkeeper claim is probably bogus. I refuse to believe Scum!Andante would claim Town Friendly Neighbor with a 2/3 chance of being counterclaimed immediately. Plus, that "crumbing" doesn't look intentional.

I don't see how its not plausible

I don't see how it is. Care to enlighten me?

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, I found myself without an internet connection for the last 12 hours or so.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, I found myself without an internet connection for the last 12 hours or so.

And the last 30 minutes too?

No commentary on the game or is this just prod-dodging?

I was reading the thread.

Sorry, I found myself without an internet connection for the last 12 hours or so.

And the 12 hours before that?

Is it wrong of me to get upset with players that sign up for Mafia games just to not play them?

I can't play mafia at all hours of the day.

[BlueSnakelet]

Mala knew she would be the next elimination after Andante, which is why she fakeclaimed Jailkeeper. She probably wanted to draw an Andante vote from someone. The only one left this could plausibly fool is Delta, who had pointed out that Andante wasn't technically mechanically confirmed as town D2. If Delta is scum, that fakeclaim does absolutely nothing.

[BlueSnakelet]

I find it amazing how Black waited until Elo to completely turn against me after townreading me for the whole game. Throughout D3, she's been setting up a final three with me, her and Delta, on which I'll obviously be eliminated because Delta will never not scumread me.

[BlueSnakelet]

@Andante, my response to Mala's claim was not rehearsed. I read it and responded on the spot.

It's true that I'm no expert scumhunter, but I can get confident and speak up on occasion. Surely you remember my D1 fight with Delta?

[BlueSnakelet]

I find it amazing how Black waited until Elo to completely turn against me after townreading me for the whole game. Throughout D3, she's been setting up a final three with me, her and Delta, on which I'll obviously be eliminated because Delta will never not scumread me.

It's amazing what I can do when I get out of a tunnel

Who is mala's partner?

Uh.. you? Did I not made it clear already?

[BlueSnakelet]

Throughout D3, she's been setting up a final three with me, her and Delta, on which I'll obviously be eliminated because Delta will never not scumread me.

Right about here. It sounded better in my head.

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't really have much of a choice, have I?

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't really have much of a choice, have I?

lol this really sounds like town trying to find scum...

I'm not really trying anymore.

I don't like to play as town. I'm no good at theorizing from an uninformed perspective. The best I can do is speak my mind at any given moment.

Normally, when I'm the most suspected player, I don't even try to defend myself. The fact I'm town would just be the starting point from which I would give all my thoughts. I'd let my flip validate all of my past words.

But annoyingly, Black waited until Elo to start pushing me, so even that's not an option.

I don't have any recourse. This game is simply lost.

Let's just end this already. VOTE: Mala

[BlueSnakelet]

Delta tunneled me the whole game.

If Black had supported him before Elo, and managed to get me eliminated, she would be suspected because of it. Scum do usually jump onto miselimination wagons.

But as soon as Elo came along, this wasn't a problem anymore. If she supported my wagon and got me eliminated, that would be an instant win.

So she immediately swiched from townreading to scumreading me. Delta still showed intent on eliminating me, so she knew that bringing both of us to the final 3 was a sure way to win the game.

VOTE: Black

@Delta, if there is there is anything I can do to convince you not to vote for me, please tell me.

[BlueSnakelet]

Can either of you answer why scum!me would go from screaming at the top of my lungs that it's Delta/mala at the end of D2 to thinking it's Blue on D3? What do I gain from that? Why wouldn't I just stick with my Delta/mala theory since Blue SR BOTH of them?

Not trying to use wifom but I think it's important to consider this question

For scum to win, they only have to reach Elo with one townie that will definitively vote for another.

I have been flippy-floppy on my Delta read, and was, by your admission, hard to read. There was no guarantee that I would retain my scumread in the moment it matters.

Delta, on the other hand, has been hardtunneling me for most of the game. As long you can fuel that, you can be pretty certain he will vote with you.

[BlueSnakelet]

For scum to win, they only have to reach Elo with one townie that will definitively vote for another.

I have been flippy-floppy on my Delta read, and was, by your admission, hard to read. There was no guarantee that I would retain my scumread in the moment it matters.

You have

not

been flip-floppy on me though. You thought I was town the entire game. You didn't SR me until I had already accused you of being partners with mala

So going back to the start of D3, it wouldn't make sense for me to change my tune from Delta!scum to Blue!scum if I were actually scum. The play would've been to keep my mala/Delta stance and let you continue to TR me/sus Delta. Then I could take you two to this situation and we would vote Delta ez pz

Why would I purposefully choose the harder path to victory if I'm scum?

Harder path? Anyone reading the game can see that Delta voting me is more likely than me voting Delta. Are you saying that Scum!Black would not try to capitalize on Delta's deathtunnel?

This endgame is winning for you. That much is clear.

[BlueSnakelet]

Harder path? Anyone reading the game can see that Delta voting me is more likely than me voting Delta.

This was

not

more likely at the beginning of D3 and you know it. Before I decided it was most likely you/mala on D3, you SRed Delta and TRed me. So at that point why would scum!me switch to painting you as the partner when I could have just taken you and Delta to P3 and we vote Delta off? There was no indication you SRed me at all when I switched from Delta to you

I admit my progression doesn't make sense. I was an unreadable black box (pun not intended) and you could not trust me to not change my mind at the last moment.

Delta was really transparent about his distrust for me the whole way. He even solved for BlueXMala even before Mala was declared obviously scum.

For you, supporting Delta and eliminating me is more likery to work than the other way around.

[BlueSnakelet]

Welp, it was woth a shot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BlueSnakelet]

And Andante could have lost this game for the town just by being so damn suspicious of me lol

I'll just take this as a sign that I did at least something right.

[BlueSnakelet]

The fact that you came into it voting for me after SRing Delta for most of the game was the nail in your coffin I think

I townread Delta for most of the game.