Newbie 2124 - Postgame

[Bellaphant]

I can't remember if I've just read a ccgeek game or played with them, isn't that terrible! I think I've read a sheep game? And of course I know happy!

I should probably stop haunting the newbie queue.

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: heipizhu4

Because I'm going to want to call you hepzibah all game

[Bellaphant]

Also, we won, happy!

Hi bbmolla..tbf all I remember about you is the relationships thread from ages ago.

[Bellaphant]

Didn't mean to be ignorant, is that your first language? It's a name in a big classical English book, my mum randomly decided to start calling me it as a nickname when I was a teenager.

[Bellaphant]

Re : reads progressing, I tend to read games backwards if I'm behind, to see that logical change from one idea to another.

Pc is probably town? Like, they can be my 'town for day one' tr

[Bellaphant]

Political clout, maybw the sheep. I've just remembered the ccgeek game, oh god. Protip: if the game is ending on page 25 scum has probably won.

[Bellaphant]

And BBmola what's your read? I really need someone to claer things out since I'm an awful analyser.

I think PC vs Sheep is probably town v town

You're killin it just keep giving me your thoughts so I can analyze you my friend

See, I thought this but thought political clout town binning me for not much more reasob than me calling them vaguely town was weird? Pc, can you explain more?

^ post is quite poor though

[Bellaphant]

I don't understand a bunch of it and the bits I do I disagree with: the thought process from sheep and mills seem fine and there's a ton of ...self defense?

[Bellaphant]

Bbmolla, not mills

[Bellaphant]

Just FYI, I was scum in mine and ccgeeks last game and it was an easy mislim, he fake claimed on page four or something. I'm wary of reading the slot in too bad a light because of it, but I am really surprised he didn't follow up with me just then instead of complaining about activity.

[Bellaphant]

I think we agree on one read, there. One and a half. What do you want me to expand on? I work well with questions

@cc, that's kind of not the point have you played any games since ? I found your posts really vague last time in terms of reads ans pushes, are you feeling more confident with ms meta now? You play on the same site at happy, yeah? I found them hard to read but easy to tr last game..

[Bellaphant]

@chicago, right now you and geek. You've both done one really big wall post each that I don't get a lot out of, it makes me wonder if you believe it. Like, I don't get the read on help at all, you scum read teo of my null-towns. Talk to me more about heip and happy?

P-edit questions are generally a good thing, I don't see that as jumpy. Leading a little bit, but not jumpy and mainly easy to see progression

[Bellaphant]

@geek, If you get a sec, chuck me a few completed ms game links?

[Bellaphant]

Reads from happy would be great.

[Bellaphant]

Meh? It feels really narrative-y and then I'm not 100% sure how it supports the conclusion? @heip, can you clarify?

[Bellaphant]

Also , day one is always like this. I used to always say that day one should be over by like page ten, but the last time I actually made this happened I was scum mis-liming ccgeek.

[Bellaphant]

Actually I don't know what 'ball and strikes ' means.

Have you played any ms games?

[Bellaphant]

I'm keeping an eye on him, but I did find last game he was easier to read as time went on, but he is one of those that I think you end up reading on 'vibes', which is frustrating for some players.
P-edit, can I have a link to the other one?

[Bellaphant]

151 seems like good posting

Someone asked about molla: I think two posts made an impact on me, one was fine, one felt a bit pockety of heip? This may have even been the same post, will check when not feeding iz.

[Bellaphant]

What bothers me about clout v Chicago, and the reason I'm not just binning this as t v t, is that normally in these convos I can see the 'why" of why they are missing each others'point, or I can see both sides agreeing on some fundamentals before moving on, and I'm just not seeing anything bar just walls of text? I think I like clout more for the follow up around 'jumpiness'

[Bellaphant]

Heip, can you tell me more about the original take on the CT pc thing? Your conclusions in your first post didn't seem really matched by the narrative and the table, while fascinating, isn't really giving me an 'in' to your thought process.

[Bellaphant]

@mcendu, where's your own head at?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: Chicago

Get a competing wagon going

[Bellaphant]

No one should be claiming without intent to hammer and a claim on page 8 is massively anti town.

[Bellaphant]

It's day one, the first wagon of the day definitely should not be claiming at e-2.

[Bellaphant]

@cc, two of them are the same? Was that a test to see if I was reading?

I vaguely read that game, I remember now. I called AV scum by page five. I'm much better at mafia when I'm not playing

[Bellaphant]

It's day one, the first wagon of the day definitely should not be claiming at e-2.

Quoting this for eyes on for the new page

[Bellaphant]

Get better!

[Bellaphant]

@cc, was it for reals a test?

[Bellaphant]

Molla, out of these ' CCGeek, Political Clout, heipizhu4, McEndu,' talk to me about heip? I think I just agreed with them suggesting pc v CT were s/t and I sr CT more.

I'm waiting on geek to answer my question

[Bellaphant]

Oh, you asked about geek. They had less takes in our game, it was one of the reasons it was easy to mislim them, but maybe it was a confidence thing? I feel like they've been more impactful this game, and my read in them has tended upwards a little over the last page or so but it is a surprising difference

[Bellaphant]

I think people telling Political Clout to claim was soo bad and pro-wolf that it has a slightly >rand chance to be someone openwolfing

I think that was happy/chicago

like not a "gotcha" in a newbie game but cant let that slide

My read on happy is everywhere: it was improving and weirdly the push on you made me think maybe they were town, as scum doesn't really want to stand out, but the rolefishing is super bad and like you said, some posts don't really make sense.

If I wasn't already voting Chicago I'd be voting them for the role fishing.

[Bellaphant]

73 feels like an overreaction to both nolla and to geek, I've discussed how I hate their reads post, their interaction with clout around 'jumpy' was weird, I did like their post on happy, I don't gets tons out of the 1v1 with clout because it doesn't feel like either side massively progresses, 143 is better in isolation but then the claim weirdness happens.

I'd be more curious to see why people tr the slot

[Bellaphant]

It isn't true for heip though?

[Bellaphant]

"2 Bella Iavh ct sheep" is not one person, weird of you and molla to get it wrong the same way

[Bellaphant]

Genuine question here - does that actually come off as scummy? I would think it's a valid play given my circumstances, but I'm not overly familiar with this site's meta.

I was going to slightly bitchily say 'its literally in the rules post' but...it isn't in this one! Minus life points to me. In most newbie games the advice on e-1, claims , etc is in the first coupl of posts, but apparently not all. Basically, site meta is definitely:
You don't claim without intent to hammer
'rolefishing' (trying to find clues if the person is a pr) is scummy
Quick -hammers are also really scummy (hammering without giving time to claim). They are also super rare, to the point where they only really exist If certain players like enchant are in the game, Ans even then everyone says 'e-2 which is e-1 BC enchant is playing '!
Really rushed days are +scum.

So, yes. It looks super scummy from an outside pov.

More personally, in the game with geek, we'd elimed him by page ten and the game was over by page 26? The pace here is slower and honestly the first wagon very rarely is the elim (in fact, in one of my recent gamss I used the fact that the first real wagon was going to be the elim to try and wake people up to how bad the lim was - got ignored, he flipped town).

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:
unvoting so that no flashhammer happens

Like this feels really fake. No way are two votes springing out of nowhere.

[Bellaphant]

Hi! Quick question: didja fumble the link on purpose y/n

[Bellaphant]

Ccgeek is probs town for his test of me

[Bellaphant]

tbh I was looking at the votes more, the wagon died quickly, the ppl ob there might be opportunitist scum

tbh I was looking at the votes more, the wagon died quickly, the ppl ob there might be opportunitist scum

Yes, that's one of the reasons I think Political Clout is scum.

Sorry, can you both clarify these?

[Bellaphant]

You said you invited because you were worried about a hammer, then when challenged said it was because the wagon died?

[Bellaphant]

Geek's town, 100% and echo him entirely on the weirdness that is it's iso: sometimes they post and I want to unvote, but then they talk to pc again and it looks like it's so deliberately missing the point. Also, they haven't really responded to my issues/comments on their iso.

[Bellaphant]

Ct's , sorry.

[Bellaphant]

73 feels like an overreaction to both nolla and to geek, I've discussed how I hate their reads post, their interaction with clout around 'jumpy' was weird, I did like their post on happy, I don't gets tons out of the 1v1 with clout because it doesn't feel like either side massively progresses, 143 is better in isolation but then the claim weirdness happens.

I'd be more curious to see why people tr the slot

I guess I was expecting more of a response to this. My real issue is I really don't understand the pc stuff and when I read you and him walling at each other, I really struggle to see the 'point'. Maybe give me like the bullet pointed version

[Bellaphant]

how do u feel about mcednu

Bad!

Lol. Bbmolla chucking a vote on them without really catching up is the thing that's stopping me moving my vote

[Bellaphant]

Like, I thought the slot was scum reading me but in their last post they said they were following my read on iavh?

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

Cool, that felt genuine. Makes me wonder a little bit actually: we at least agree something's wonky about the interaction

[Bellaphant]

Mcednu!

[Bellaphant]

I don't think either is 100% clear, but I don't think either should be the day one lim. More Sus of pc now anyway, as I felt CT was being genuine.

Iavh or mcebdu for me today, could be moved onto heip or bbmolla as a compromise

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: mcendu e-2

[Bellaphant]

There's like two posts I like in your iso? I don't remember you being this negative towards most slots in our last game , a lot of your posting just feels like shade.

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, that's to happy .mcendu's iso makes me feel nothing, and I tend to find those 'grey' slots have a + rand chance of flipping scum.

[Bellaphant]

I'd be curious to interact once youve read my iso though, I'm better 1 on 1

[Bellaphant]

Terrible how? I quite liked your readlist post but it doesn't seem to match with the rest of your iso. Talk it through with me?

[Bellaphant]

Terrible how? I quite liked your readlist post but it doesn't seem to match with the rest of your iso. Talk it through with me?

Sorry, I was unclear: I understood your reads post, I'm just missing the process from 'lota of little shade posts' to those reads. Talk me through that process, how are you solving, I guess

suer
geek is just town for wagonomics
typewriter/clout is svt with me more leaning on clout scum which I posted reasons yday
sheep might be scum for suggesting that it is a tvt, also might be effectively spewing both as town, we should check this

I don't think either is 100% clear, but I don't think either should be the day one lim. More Sus of pc now anyway, as I felt CT was being genuine.

Iavh or mcebdu for me today, could be moved onto heip or bbmolla as a compromise

can you tell me what about ct's post felt genuine. like a sentence or what did he say specifically that made you go hmmmmm this feels like a townie post? or hmmmmm this post strikes me overall as true. what happened to your sus of bbmolla why'd you hop on the mcendu wagon suddenly?

The 'why is pushing for a claim scummy ' is either like four d chess, or just a newbie mistake? When they admitted their push on you was a bit shit and confusing, that felt real.

I'm still Sus of bbmolla but they aren't doing anything. I'm trying to engage them, especially on mcendu. In on mcendu mainly as I mentioned before, I vaguely felt they were sr-ing me and they announced they were sheepibg me, my top TR is voting them and their whole iso reads as white noise to me. They also just admitted to not reading to sort me?

UNVOTE:

Cool, that felt genuine. Makes me wonder a little bit actually: we at least agree something's wonky about the interaction

UNVOTE:

where we going friend? I also agree something is wonky about the interaction.

la mcednu

can't vote mcendu today. unless I think they suck as scum could be tho. unvoted me. i would prefer happy, heinz, or bbmolla. have to think on this.

I don't massively sr you btw, thought I'd made it clear I wasn't going to do more sorting on you or CT today. You aren't even in my compromise list. As you said, apart from mcendu our lists are actually the same.

[Bellaphant]

I missed up a quote there to happy.

[Bellaphant]

there is a wolf trying to get political clout to be the lim

dont think it's Chicago

I liked this a lot.

[Bellaphant]

I thought town, then maybe the scum if pc/CT is town, but probably town?? It's not a today problem, is my main point: I think that's my issue with your number system; it's not very nuanced and misses this kind of fluidity in thinking. Do you have another one that shows changes over time?

What do you think it means that three people share similar reads? In fact, now pc feels similar, And maybe CT!

Also, ccgeek is hard town.

[Bellaphant]

To expand: by referencing one post, you are kinda missing what's weird: vibes-wise, I didn't feel mcendu is tr-ing me, but suddenly in that post he is, enough to follow my reads! Does your system find that weird, or not?
P-edit??? I ts a blank in heips chart. It's nothin to do with you.

[Bellaphant]

This is to you, happy: Sorry, I was unclear: I understood your reads post, I'm just missing the process from 'lota of little shade posts' to those reads. Talk me through that process, how are you solving, I guess

[Bellaphant]

Vibes = feeling. You get a feeling from posters, a bit like what pc was talking about gut reads and I'd hadnt felt like they were talking to me 'as town'.

[Bellaphant]

Pc, you sound a bit like me: in team mafia that's just finished, I had two and a half of the scum team day one (two scum, and one scum between player X and y), but I didn't have the confidence to push it at all. so like, feel you on the self doubt and the gut reads, but also, we both need to get out of our heads!!

[Bellaphant]

An interesting system that I do kind of have in the back of my head is from.a user called Plotinus, who some of the rule sets get adapted from: it's a bit like the +-, but you do it for each player with each player, so agreeing, asking for reads, etc would be +, wall fighting -, a negative read on the player to someone else -, etc.

So like, for me and pc, it would be (not really this but a bit like It)

Post X , +
Post y, ++,
Post z, -- to CT, + to pc
Post a slight + to pc when talking to X
Post b __ neutral
Post c ++
Post d - about pc to y
Post e + to pc when talking to them about general reads
And you kind of see if it makes sense over time.

[Bellaphant]

viewtopic.php?p=6952451#p6952451

This should link to an example of what I'm blathering on about

[Bellaphant]

Cc, CT, can you chuck a vote down? We need time to get to e-1, intent, claim, evaluate, potentially wagon again. It's bedtime here, it'll be less than three says left in the am.

[Bellaphant]

And the ISO of Bellaphant.

163 and 240 are my favorites on the ISO.

A few more questions, though. Here is something that I want to understand:

No one should be claiming without intent to hammer and a claim on page 8 is massively anti town.

What will scum do with a day 8 roleclaim in your opinion?

And the only post before I was wagoned that I don't like:

VOTE: Chicago

Get a competing wagon going

I don't get the rationale here. Is there a better explanation for the vote on CT back then? I thought you was reading Typewriter as more scum than PC in the 1v1, what were you thinking?

Know who to target or not? It's also a funny one with the new d3 set up, things like outing masons early etc is just reallybad for town. Honestly, I've seen ridiculous claims early in newbie games.

And yes, I was scum reading them more. But the wagons were boring. I hate stale wagons, it's not really alignment indicotave for me though.

[Bellaphant]

@geek, any idea on happy?

[Bellaphant]

? The iso is bad, apart from the bit where he sort of pressures Bella but is also wrong about some of it and...it isn't really pressure? That's...weird.

I feel like I am a lot more readable than happy, and also I've asked for your support there?

[Bellaphant]

You've also missed fhe bir whwre he echos bbmolla on heip having no trs when heips given four.

[Bellaphant]

It doesn't even touch on the main things I sr the slot for. *shrug* I dunno if it's scummy or blinkered tho.

[Bellaphant]

You've also missed fhe bir whwre he echos bbmolla on heip having no trs when heips given four.

Why do you think I am echoing that? I pointed out that hpz actually townread people.

To quote out:

Hpz did townread someone at #167.

I'll come back to vibes later but my point is heip gave four townreads!! Bbmolla said it was one, you said it was one, I pointed out that was wrong and it clearly didn't impact you at all, because you've referred back to the 'it was one' post that was wrong to begin with.

[Bellaphant]

The 'a' thing.
It's not about the word a, it's about not reading/a lazy approach to the thread. Molla shaded heip by saying they didn't have many teon reads, and mcendu echoes this later.

The thing is, they are both after heip really clearly gives /four/ trs. I've pointed this out again to mcendu, but he is t engaging with the why, content to brush it off as nothing. I'm not 'harping on' about the word a, I'm saying it's another piece of the puzzle that to me , mcendu isn't engaging properly with the thread. This, coupled with his lazy sheep on me abd now his non pushing to get anyone other than him limmed, is scummy.

[Bellaphant]

In fact, the thing that's making me wonder about moving my vote is the weirdness from other players about getting the slot elimed whilst noone has mcendu in their town reads.

@mollq and sheep, likelihood of white knighting?

P-edit if you knew all along why were you still saying one to me? That makes even less sense than saying 'i get it wrong"

[Bellaphant]

Vs Bella? I'm trying to understand

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: bbmolla

E-1.

I think mcendu might be a communication issue.

[Bellaphant]

A pitch on molla? Like, it's mainly his position around this wagon/he's not here

[Bellaphant]

I dunno, they seem genuinely annoyed and like they aren't 'getting' my point? Tin hat is that ccgeek is scum for white knighting them.

Everyone's position around the wagon has been so strange? I'm fine for either wagon tbf.

P-edit agreed, kind of the issue is that he hasn't been pushing.

[Bellaphant]

We could vote happy?

[Bellaphant]

Your lack of posting isn't the issue?

[Bellaphant]

I'm around for the next three hours and then just before deadline

[Bellaphant]

The team mafia game just gone u spent the last day and a half asking if we could flash wagon scum throigh and no one listened

[Bellaphant]

Sorry, I'm travelling rn, content tonight. Being thick though, how do we know there's a tracker? Someday, I'll learn new d3.

[Bellaphant]

Some fairly scattered thoughts:
If molla was bussed, it was either early, by someone who felt they couldn't get off, or late.
I think that it's slightly more likely that scum was on mcendu, as I think without me unvoting that lim 100% goes through.
Sheep's defence of molla isn't 'too scummy to be scum' as heip seems to be suggesting: as I said I think the mcendu lim could've gone through with a little bit more push, so I can understand scum!sheep defending molla. I'm also a little wary of then lining up elims.
The point about pc pushing /everyone/ is interesting
Geek's nearly back to being my strongest tr, but can you show me where the softs were? Why defend at all if you weren't sure about masons? I don't know, masons is a bit of the new d3 I can't stand.
Mcendu is probably town? If they do flip and flip town it looks worse for sheep.
The kill seems very weird.

I think those are all my catch up thoughts.

[Bellaphant]

Any tracked inno couldn't have been til day two and doesn't really explain ccgeeks post. I'm wondering now if it was just a mistake.

Mcendu is still most probably town.

[Bellaphant]

I've never seen that scumputer before..

I guess where my head is at is: it should be sheep today. Sheep defended bbmolla at a point where I think the mislim could've still been viable and egged on yesterday's lim with weasel words. I think in 'easy mode ' world, this is scummy.
Hard world mode it's typewriter: they spent a lot of day one engaged in a 1v1, but I'm not sure the nks make sense from them.
Bizzarro world it's geek: I feel like we have a lot of 'circumstantial' evidence - the chainsaw of mcednu, killing a player that knew them/could read them and they are probably experience enough to pr hunt in the nks too. But...this one doesn't 'feel' right and would probably only be an option for me in a lylo with like, mcendu.

I'm curious why I'm on so many people's limmpool though. This is stating to feel like my team mafia game.

[Bellaphant]

@ccgeek, that sentence is basically me waffling about your mcendu defence again. It's weird because it feels 'informed', as does the current line of thinking about heip and mcendu but it doesn't feel 'informed' of what's actually happening (no shade). If you were scum, I'd say that post was your 'mistake'.

[Bellaphant]

I don't think anyone should town read me automatically, I just find it frustrating that I've been lumoed into everyone's compromise lim pool without anyone really interrogating that/me. I'd much rather people asked me questions, etc. It's also frustrating that I feel I'm the only ones thinking things like 'iavh kill looks bad for geek' or 'sheeps managed to avoid a flash wagon while egging it on which looks deliberate a voiding vca', etc.

I think it's not that you defended them at all, it's that you defended them so much when their thread presence was so miminal? It doesn't feel proportionate to what I could actually see, so it makes sense I'm looking for the ulterior motive. I think even from a 'this might flip town ' uninformed perspective, he wasn't performing as a great 'town asset'.

[Bellaphant]

Scum!Bella pushes that mcendu wagon, it was going to happen. I don't play three d chess, I've never been good about it: I don't 'rethink' there are lose a free mislim over killing my buddy for....reasons? You can check my other newbie scum games, I don't think I've bussed once in the last year +

[Bellaphant]

Honestly I think the hiep pr was just luck? I think it's the iavh kill that makes me Sus of geek but it could be wifom.

I meant yesterdaysnflash wagon! I am well aware that I pushed for a flash wagon on happy, I found the dude fairly anti!town which makes the kill weirder?

[Bellaphant]

Can you talk to me more about Chicago? I really struggle for a read in them

[Bellaphant]

I'd really appreciate it if you and Chicago could ask me some questions:) especially for sorting Chicago: I can't hold down a firm read on him and I feel like he's kinda under the radar, but sheep believes them to be town (although sheep says maybe not for good reasons)

I think that sheep being fine with yesterday's speed lim while not being on the wagon is way more interesting than scum!puters. I've never seen them referenced before either.

[Bellaphant]

This is exactly the double speak I'm on about ...it was a fine lim but also you got off because it was early? It's more the double speak that I'm worried about.

[Bellaphant]

I'd really appreciate it if you and Chicago could ask me some questions:) especially for sorting Chicago: I can't hold down a firm read on him and I feel like he's kinda under the radar, but sheep believes them to be town (although sheep says maybe not for good reasons)

My sense of you is kind of 'under the radar' right now, tbh. You could have voted for BBmolla on Day 1 with the assumption that a vague PR claim could dodge the hammer, but having you set it up. But that's not my question for you, my question for you is why didn't you do anything Day 2?

?? The day two that took....less than two days? This is your best question?

[Bellaphant]

I wasn't here? It was night for me when day started, then we were travelling through rural France. I then did a catch up post Ans bu that evening the day was over.

All of which is fine if a day doesn't last 48 hours. What's the issue?

[Bellaphant]

We could vote happy?

Why did you propose to vote happy near the D1 deadline?

Honestly, I was 50/50 on the molla lim, knew I didn't want to elim you, and happy was both a) I felt scum posting, as it was a lot of random pot shots with not a lot of progression and very different to our last game and b) different in an unpleasant way: I knew we weren't going to be able to communicate. A day one newbie lin is normally not on scum, so compromising on someone else scummy who was making the game Hardee for me seemed fine.

That feels irl scummy a bit

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting CT to be a nk?

[Bellaphant]

@geek, tbf I'm trying to engage with people who think I'm scummy, because you wanna sort that out before elo, but CT was less than helpful.

[Bellaphant]

Nothing, but they are talking like they expected it because they were.... actually I'm not sure why? I think ccgeek asked them this too. CT, can you explain?

[Bellaphant]

This is the basic nightkill case for me. Based on my Day 1 actions (specifically the risky hammer of BBmolla and subsequent lim), there are two possibilities of my alignment, either 1) town-aligned or 2) Mafia who for some unknown reason pulled an unnecessary bus-for-towncred; of which the former is almost guaranteed. Coming into D2, it's not a mistake to say I had the strongest town-read in the game.

Mafia have two elimination priorities - PRs and confirmed townies. Given that the latter was a risk without any kind of read (28.6%) and I was a definitive; it makes me a very desirable target unless the mafia had a good read on PRs.

I still feel like you are saying you are confirmed here/the most strong tr but that doesn't match with my reality. Please explain /why/you think this, without mentioning the hammer which is Nia at this point.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I didn't say I'd ignore it? I don't think the hammer 'proves' anything, that's all . I want to understand the rest, especially your perception of you being the tip TR day two.

[Bellaphant]

I didn't have much of an issue with CT until the quick lim, but their weirdness around a)asking me any sensible questions to sort me before lylo Ans b)their inability to answer the no question (ccgeek asked it, someone else asked it, I asked it twice and still don't have an answer that makes sense) is just giving me red flags.

Mcendu, was there actually a pr soft on iavh?

[Bellaphant]

Also, 'pleass don't ignore it' feels like CT is talking to me like he knows I'm town.

I am 99.9% sure mcendu is town and 90% sure geek is. I thought I'd easily vote sheep today and e.z. win but there are questions with CT.

[Bellaphant]

Agreed, I see ccgeeks lylo prediction as fairly likely if sheep is town.

[Bellaphant]

Elo! You know, I'm never tempted to type the other word, but Melo/elo always take a second.

[Bellaphant]

Eh, I think it's either sheep or Chicago, sheep thinks it's ccgeek, you think sheep Ans I'm not sure what CT wants?

[Bellaphant]

I have no idea why you scum read me tho?

[Bellaphant]

Id much rather not vote you, I think you are more likely town than not, that's why I'm frustrated. I feel like we've both got stuck in a weird read where I think your scum read is town and vice versa. It's maybe why you feel my read is stale: I feel a bit stuck. I feel like I've asked questions and stuff today and you've answered, but they haven't. Like, I'd much rather lim Chicago over anyone.

[Bellaphant]

Because scum read you? Your entire read on me is omgus?

Also, wtf was that other game, I just skimmed 50 pages and I think it's still day one???

[Bellaphant]

Like, Chicago is basically absent from it. I do agree that they were more passive generally but they also weren't there.

[Bellaphant]

I just feel like I'm talking into the void today? In that game, town were fairly obvious and mala seemed to screw it for scum?

[Bellaphant]

Your post about me maybe being scum has made me tr you more, which is worrying.
P-edit ugh

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: chicago

E-1

[Bellaphant]

I will.

[Bellaphant]

i exist in an unviable timezone, which means it's usually hard for me to communicate live-ish with ppl, but I think some form of similar good coordination is needed to finalize this day

Well, both town PRs have been killed and I think most of the opinions of other players are pretty solidly locked down at this point, so we're kind of left with the 'try to lim the scum and go to elo if it fails' part of the game.

Mostly agree. In my head, right now, I'm torn on the final limpool, however. s!bella or not is the most pressing question to me right now. Take it more or less guaranteed that McEndu is dying tonight, so we're heading into an ELo depending on who we lim today. I think, personally, if sheep flips town, and you and Bella move onto ELo with me... I don't know how to solve that.

Actually, if you are still here, what do you make of this?

[Bellaphant]

If you were town, wouldn't you be talking about anything else but the day one lim?

P-edit k, it felt fine at first but then I tin-hatted.

[Bellaphant]

I'll hammer sheep in 40 mins so we get a lim

[Bellaphant]

Dude?

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: sheep

Ok, I'm about to be busy with kids bedtime.

[Bellaphant]

Hi all, I've been throwing up all day and just found chicken pox on my little girl so I'm not really here imminently, sorry

[Bellaphant]

It looks like molla tr me and Chicago?

Also, wasn't this the elo you predicted? Not sure how being in the elo you predicted makes me scummy?

[Bellaphant]

? You accused me of the same thing?

I'm just trying to understand. Like, yesterday I started off sr-ing sheep and Chicago and then sheep was obv!town and I had to hammer because we were about to no lim. But sheep hard sr you and tr Chicago, although he was starting to waver at the end.


Unrelatedly, mollas iso is so thin

[Bellaphant]

Why would you vote for a player that you think is town and invite the mislim?

because nolim is bad. certain information is better than uncertain information (reads).

No lim is terrible.. honestly, town you would've been better to self hammer than let it get to no lim.
@geek, what happened with deadline?

[Bellaphant]

because it feels we have been set up into this ELo on purpose

Could you clarify this?

Because all of us are suspicious of each other. Almost best-case scenario for scum. Off Molla's ISO, (bad) arguments can be made for all three of us. Apart from that CT has had some scum moments across the game and Bella is the universal nullread TM. Meanwhile I have a bad hammer under my ISO and also a lot of potential "circumstantial evidence" to prove s!me, also my dip yesterday. So like, this needs a LOT of careful solving or a reckless 50% vote, which, ngl, I'm willing to make.

This is a good and fair take on the sitch.

[Bellaphant]

Whereas chigacos 'bella moved onto the scum wagon By.... accident?' post is very bad.

I don't understand how I'm the big 'null read' when I feel me and sheep were the only ones solving yesterday.
P,-edit hi, my little girl has chicken pox, life is tough here

[Bellaphant]

? Ccgeek literally said the same thing as me and it's fine when he says it?

I also agreed with his post that today doesn't need rushing and that ccgeek sees reasons (mainly presnstedt by me and sheep) why he'd be scum read.

Also, when I give you stuff, you don't follow up; I asked you to discuss your sr on me and it was literally 'you weren't here when we speed-limmed town in 36 hours ' and that I scum read you.

I clearly just raised an issue with your position on me getting of endu, but you didn't pick up on it, instead talking about me 'not doing anything ' again: which is patently false. You are painting a picture like I havent been here or been active, which is just ridiculous

[Bellaphant]

I have more posts than you and we both have twice what geek has and yet you've more than once taken swipes at me for what feels like activity reasons??

[Bellaphant]

? Ccgeek literally said the same thing as me and it's fine when he says it?

CCGeek never said self-elimination was preferable, so you get called out. It's partially directed at CCGeek too, don't take it personally.

Also, when I give you stuff, you don't follow up; I asked you to discuss your sr on me and it was literally 'you weren't here when we speed-limmed town in 36 hours ' and that I scum read you.

That was kind of the extent of my scum read on you. My entire scum-read on you is less a negative read and more the lack of a positive one. Your Day 1 interaction was nothing particularly standout except for a last-minute switch, your Day 2 is ... yeah. That. I don't particularly like your Day 3 either seeing as how you spent it all scum reading me.

Also, I keep getting this kind of LAMIST vibe from your 'come question me' approach to being townread.

I clearly just raised an issue with your position on me getting of endu, but you didn't pick up on it, instead talking about me 'not doing anything ' again: which is patently false. You are painting a picture like I havent been here or been active, which is just ridiculous

What, the 'chigacos 'bella moved onto the scum wagon By.... accident?' post is very bad' counter? Okay. I get how you don't like it because it's accusing you of being scum. Although its less an 'accident' and more of a 'calculated risk'. You can tell me I'm wrong if you want - that you were around during that hour countdown I had and chose not to post anything.

Also, I'm not talking about your 'not doing anything' now, it's more of a 'not doing anything on Day 2' which is kind of textbook scum behavior if two town-aligned roles are scumreading each other (sheep vs PC) and it's not like you can do anything about it now.

Finally, this:

I have more posts than you and we both have twice what geek has and yet you've more than once taken swipes at me for what feels like activity reasons??

I don't like CCGeek's lack of interaction, but its a very consistent lack of interaction and when he posts he tends to wall. Honestly, most of your posts are so short I feel like your word count is actually behind CCGeek, so is that really a leg to stand on for you?

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Like, if you are town you are handing this to geek on a plate because you won't adapt to the information.

Yesterday, me, sheep and geek /all/ said an elimination would be preferable to no lim. You then used it as a point to attack me? Sheep said a self vote was preferable, and sheep was town.
You won't find anything positive in my iso if you go into it expecting to only see bad stuff. Read the interactions with sheep yesterday and tell me that isn't solving?

Come ask me questions is just what I say. It's nai, but like...you didn't do it .

You can't give me a reason /why/ I unvoted a mislim that was about to happen and voted my 'buddy': just like with the numbers for no limming yesterday, there's no why.

I'm not talking about day two anymore: it was 36 hours and around 15 of them were overnight for me.

If you are town, look again. If you are scum, it certainly explains why you have no /why/ for any of your points against me: nothing about your pushes on me feel natural or like they have a point behind them. You really committed to the pc push and I'm pretty convinced it was because he was on to you day one.

[Bellaphant]

Also, re: my read on geek, again, you aren't respondong to what I'm saying. I do, basically, tr geek, but I feel like you are missing the 'circumstantial'' evidence against him that even he is aware of, that's making me paranoid. I've spoken about it: I feel like me and sheep were the only people to point it out.

[Bellaphant]

In posting!!!

[Bellaphant]

How's the read going?