Community

[Kokabiel]

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

[Kokabiel]

Smart penguin.
Would be funny if two people come to replace him.

[Kokabiel]

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.

Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

I can also see it as a 3rd party slip because he got excited and wrote his raw thoughts without thinking. Agree that it's less likely to come from scum tho

[Kokabiel]

VOTE: kokabiel

Spoiler:

-Marci

Awww how cute~

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior.
I doubt scum would blatantly call their buddies like this so thats one association down.

Why didn’t you ask me?

can you vote kokabiel?

Yuck. Can totes see this as a scum theater.

[Kokabiel]

VOTE: Bombay

[Kokabiel]

Kookaburra, Why are you pretending to evaluate marci asking me to join her wagon as non SvS whereas you evaluate her doing the same thing to Dease as likely to be SvS? It's not because Johnny recently posted some reasons to be suspicious of Dease and you're hoping to fuel a TvT between them, is it?

I'm going to assume this is meant for me.
What do you mean by pretend? Why didn't you ask why Marci pretended to do an honest work?
The difference is that Marci invited you, whereas Dease invited himself. Marci can invite anyone, so how would that make it SvS?
Johnny's reasoning on Dease is flawed because scum don't need to pretend to be scumhunting this game. The only question is why Dease thinks he needs to make AI reads so soon, which i don't find AI in itself.

[Kokabiel]

Setup

General Information

• This is a Large Theme themed around a group of militants and a government operative.
  
• The
  Residents
  are the uninformed majority and the
  Delegation
  is the informed minority.
  
• There is a
  Government
  operative who is
  Antisocial
  . If they win, all other players will lose.
  
• The setup does not meet
  Normal Guidelines
  but has no
  Bastard
  elements.
  
• Multitasking
  and
  Daytalk
  is enabled by default.

Probably this?

[Kokabiel]

I don't understand

1) why I would ask marci that question,

I don't understand why you think i was pretending, but didn't think why Marci was pretending with a naked vote.

2) why Dease inviting himself is SvS

The dialogue felt fake to me. Dease is being FOS now so him starting a wagon without actually committing to it is not town behavior.

3) why scum don't need to pretend to be scumhunting

This was answered already

4) how you expect any of the three questions you directed toward me to lead to me saying something AI.

It is up to me to judge whether your reactions and posts are AI, not you.

[Kokabiel]

Since you chose to ignore my question about why you thought i was pretending, i will be making my own conclusions on that matter.

[Kokabiel]

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior

Why do you think it’s scum behavior?

The vote itself isn't bad, it's the fact that she is calling other people to join it. Pushing someone without any reason is dumb and anti-town.
While anti-town doesn't necessarily mean scum, it's the best thing i have right now and getting rid of people like this in absence of better alternatives is a great move.
I decided to scumread this instead of seeing it as bad town because i doubt she would make such a blunder as town.

[Kokabiel]

Setup

General Information

• This is a Large Theme themed around a group of militants and a government operative.
  
• The
  Residents
  are the uninformed majority and the
  Delegation
  is the informed minority.
  
• There is a
  Government
  operative who is
  Antisocial
  . If they win, all other players will lose.
  
• The setup does not meet
  Normal Guidelines
  but has no
  Bastard
  elements.
  
• Multitasking
  and
  Daytalk
  is enabled by default.

Probably this?

This is news to me, but also I said they had partner equity. This don't change that.

I didn't really understand what you meant by partner equity so i took a stab in the dark. Actually i still don't understand what partner equity means.

[Kokabiel]

S
Marci said she wanted to vote Koka because her iso was "beyond useless"

Marci please enlighten me with the amazing reads you got from pages 1-3. Luke has been doing all the lifting for you so far and i can't say i'm impressed even as a joke.

[Kokabiel]

I think they could be partnered because it seemed like deas was ignoring/skimming fertilevagrants posts

Deas posted something; Then furtive claimed miller.
5 hours after that Deas asked you what your comment under the vote means.
You ignore Deas and at some point it clicks that he himself ignored the miller claim.

It looks to me that he was confused with your comment and wasn't interested in the miller claim itself.
Until i reread it now i thought you softclaimed foreigner

[Kokabiel]

It is not a matter of having a ton of reads, which is what they seem to be trying to turn it into, it is a matter of scope.
The entirety of Koka's iso prior to our vote (3 posts)

Spoiler:

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

Smart penguin.
Would be funny if two people come to replace him.

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.

Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

I can also see it as a 3rd party slip because he got excited and wrote his raw thoughts without thinking. Agree that it's less likely to come from scum tho

Other then jumping on a single thing from StarPower, who are they trying to sort? Who are they asking questions to?

Just some examples off the top of my head: Did they have thoughts on furtive's claim, did they have a reaction to Bell's reaction? Did they have thoughts about me in light of my response to their only stated suspicion? No clue, because the only thing in the entire game that was apparently worthy of comment on was exactly 1 star power post.

-----

The fact that their reaction to our vote was to attack, instead of asking any kind of questions (like I don't know, "why are you scum reading me?" or "was that a serious vote") shows that they are more interested in attacking / discrediting us, then sorting us.

I am even more happy with our vote then before tbh.

You ignored all the chat, put a naked vote on me, Called out to others to join the naked vote and when i call you out on your bs you are saying that i didn't engage in any questions with you.
No; YOU didn't engage in any questions with ME. And you are already ignoring my demand on your reads from pages 1-3 and are just shading me.

[Kokabiel]

Your ISO has a vote on me; Calling others to vote on me; Shading me;
That's it. No quantity. No context.
Where are your opinions on other stuff?

[Kokabiel]

Welp this is awkward...
I asked Marci on the read so when you answered i thought it was her who answered.
Sorry Luke!

I'm going to do some stuff to cool off from embarrassment now

[Kokabiel]

My read fell apart because Luke answered a question directed at Marci and didn't sign it. I gave out all my cards for why i thought Marci was scum and Marci saw them and countered it. I don't know if she actually had a read or just made it up after i called out. The only certain thing is that i got outplayed and she has a snarky attitude towards me.

The only thing that caught my immediate attention while reading is Frogs read on Flavia(Don't call me koko btw) and Flavia not knowing betting/making deals is against the rules.
While some points can be seen as too far-fetched or unlikely; With every point made that connects Flavia's posts to Mini's scumhunting kit, the read becomes more and more persuasive.
Especially since Flavia is new.

[Kokabiel]

As for flavia, I don’t know? I might be wrong? I think kokabiel is more #scummy though and they still haven’t answered my question

I feel like getting wagons happening is a pretty common way of moving the game out of the early stages. Has your experience been different?

This question?
Yes i agree that wagoning people to gain info early on is a great idea.
A naked vote and calling other people to join it; Not a great idea. Sure they might have had a reason in a place where nobody but Luke could see but i don't know that. All i knew at the time is there is a person with 0 posts, 0 reasons calling others to join the wagon. I have no idea why people don't see it as a red flag.

[Kokabiel]

I can continue arguing with Marci, but that would just be pot calling the kettle black

[Kokabiel]

I don't remember sharing my leany reads so soon in any games so it's lackluster:
Bell is being Bell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
N.Y.M is a 3-headed hydra with 5 posts, so what am i supposed to do with that?

I’m not using up more than one of whatever’s remaining of my 125 posts on this nonsense.

Hate this sentence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Luke is solid but Marci is dragging the duo through the mud
Penguin is being penguin even when he is a cat
I put Deas on possible scum list and am observing if he does anything weird. So far he looks to me like he is always on the 2nd row of ongoing things and never leads anything.
Flavia is potential scum based on Frogs read, but i have yet to look at her myself since i didn't bother with her so far.
Star has yet to deliver on their promise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Furtive was off my radar. His vote on Bell was meh, but i think he is feeling pressure because some people think reads should exist within a few pages since he himself, didn't have reads.
His TR on Bombay might be him trying to get on their good side.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Johnny is lacking in substance and his only post is the partner equity
Feeling good about Frog so far but i know i shouldn't let my guard down
I forgot about Andre until now. Nothing to note
I really like Passenger because he is always engaging and is thinking about stuff from multiple angles
Not sure how i feel about Herta. They don't talk about useless things but they are being vague about their reasonings for the reads

[Kokabiel]

Flavia was just online for a while by the way and declined to comment.

Flavia ignored this comment. I assume if there was a valid reason she would've answered it already.

[Kokabiel]

Given that I did answer some time later, why did you think it's important?

Not denying something despite knowing of it is the same as affirming it. I also read on phone a lot so i know what you mean.
The thing i'm paying more attention to is why Frog had a need to call you out on that. I can't type what's on my mind exactly cuz its complicated...
Frog basically overkilled you with facts and logic. While his case is compelling, you being new on the site makes you an easy target for a mis-elimination without consequences.

[Kokabiel]

Kokabiel - I don't really like 218, seems to have scum mindset on the brain talking about me 'pocketing' The Bombay and then goes and says 'I really like Passenger because he is always engaging and is thinking about stuff from multiple angles' but yeah hmm

So because you have an unexplained townread on a slot that scumread me for a thing you also did means i can't have a valid town on a person who is clearly trying to solve the game. Yes, these two things are so obviously the same *claps*

[Kokabiel]

I'm not answering any questions from useless baggage anymore so Tell me if you want a claim
Peace out till i see something scummy or a question from someone who actually is doing stuff.

[Kokabiel]

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

[Kokabiel]

I wasn't expecting much but damn do i still feel disappointed by the lack of concrete reads.
Apart from Catguin who i'm 90% certain is scum, I'm not that confident with the other scum reads.
Lack of content is everywhere so it's not even a scumtell.
Fraudsterking and passenger are town. Furtive claimed miller so it's unlikely as well.
Other scum well...
Johnny and Flavia would be my best guesses right now.
Alternatives to them: Deas, N.Y.M.
Mastina isn't crazy enough to be town yet, but it's still early to tell
Still want to scumread Marci, but it might just be saltiness over being owned and her awful character at this point. Liking Luke for town.

[Kokabiel]

VOTE: kokabiel

Kokabiel is an

Advocate

!

it be scum

I'll eat my socks.

like - with any seasoning or sauce, or just plain socks?

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

What's a "moonlight dancer?"

Remember this slip after i flip.

[Kokabiel]

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me.

If you have 3 heads to make reads it makes perfect sense to me that you have 3X the weaknesses that comes along with it.
Well it makes sense that you want all the advantage's you have against solo players while disregarding the demerits that come alongside it.

[Kokabiel]

You talk the talk, but you have yet to walk the walk.
What have you done this game for it to warrant a townread on you? Nothing.
The only thing is the scumread on me on the 11th hour and mastina going off wallposting. I'm expecting town!Mastina to go full on deus vult on her scumreads so she is currently either not town or has no strong scumreads.

[Kokabiel]

I don't see a point in talking to you anymore since i'm already at a stage where everything i say is taken out of context to suit the narrative. Go and find town cred somewhere else without milking the same topic over and over again.
For example: Do you think i'm 3rd party or i have a partner. Is there scum bussing me right now. If i'm town then who is actually scum. Any reads with substance apart from me?

[Kokabiel]

Kokabiel, why did you use your ability? Did you just think might as well? You said you claimed so that there's no info we get after the flip. Are you sticking to this? I don't get the motivation.

I figured i'm going to die today anyway, so i hastened the process of the wagon as to not waste time and gave out all my info.
I hoped at least a few people would start analyzing other stuff, but they instead still come at me while ignoring majority of other stuff.
Am i missing some logic here? I'm going to die anyway so why do people feel the need to affirm that i'm scummy over and over again while not doing anything else; I just don't get it.
From my pow pushing me makes sense for scum to look like they are doing something while actually not contributing; But majority is doing it and they can't all be scum.
Also i said i claimed so there is nothing to gain from me APART from the flip.

[Kokabiel]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ght_Dancer
Mod confirmed my role but didn't confirm my alignment.
I have never seen it before so i have no idea what it's purpose even is. It's on par with a fruit vendor by usefulness.

[Kokabiel]

Koka, how does your flavor of advocate get to q moonlight dancer?

Like, in my mind an "advocate" is [someone] who is doing things for [someone or something else].

How is that getting to "you can have your own pr name revealed?"

I pm the mod "Represent Residents" and the mod confirms my role in the main thread.
It makes sense since an advocate is "a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy." according to wiki

[Kokabiel]

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

[Kokabiel]

Uh huh.

Anyway, once Koka is done flaking and answers my question, there's something I'd like to do. So please don't rush the vote before then.

I already stated who i think scum is, or did you mean another question?

[Kokabiel]

Oh yeah there was a change in scum rankings
Penguin - government
N.Y.M & Flavia - my scum bets
Deas and Johnny - alternative scum

N.Y.M was defensive of me putting them in the "solve". Then they got angry and called me scum because i'm using the vulnerability the hydra mech has. That's fine, it's not like people have their own opinions on hydras.
I gave them a list of topics they can explore which they promptly ignore because I dunno; It's like they are done milking me and think they have done enough content-wise

[Kokabiel]

Laughing, being dismissive and degrading other people's reads is a classic scum tactic.

@Frog: Assume i can be any alignment.

[Kokabiel]

I seriously don't understand your logic. Why does townreading me mean i should townread you? There are a number of reasons why you would townread me as both town and scum so how is it AI?
I see something scummy, i point it out. That's it. What's so confusing about it?
Are you incapable of comprehending that other people see things differently from you? You are acting on the pretense that everything that's different from your view is weird or scummy.

[Kokabiel]

Nancy, what kind of roles do you think

try

to get themselves voted out? Besides Jester, I mean.

I'd rather get shot by a vigi than be voted out tbph

[Kokabiel]

Alright let me dumb it down for you.
After flipping an easy miselim, you will be coming back to me because i'm another easy miselim you won't get blamed for. That's 2 free flips;
So why would i, in my right mind, not attack you despite most of your posts being scummy?

[Kokabiel]

Sorry, i admit it was uncalled for; I got kinda annoyed by you belittling me and degrading my intelligence. I'll just post coherently and with as least dubious sentences as possible.
Deas read is mainly because he has been sitting on the sidelines. He provides content, but doesn't really have any reads that are his.
I will need to quote you to make a read.

[Kokabiel]

I wasn't expecting much but damn do i still feel disappointed by the lack of concrete reads.
Apart from Catguin who i'm 90% certain is scum, I'm not that confident with the other scum reads.
Lack of content is everywhere so it's not even a scumtell.
Fraudsterking and passenger are town. Furtive claimed miller so it's unlikely as well.
Other scum well...
Johnny and Flavia would be my best guesses right now.
Alternatives to them: Deas, N.Y.M.
Mastina isn't crazy enough to be town yet, but it's still early to tell
Still want to scumread Marci, but it might just be saltiness over being owned and her awful character at this point. Liking Luke for town.

VOTE: Kokabiel

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me. I’m thinking that Koka and Flavia are unaligned here. Still dislike Passenger but it strikes me as being pretty disingenuous to split reads on Bombay and completely ignore my input.

And Deas has been really townie, so that alone is whack.

~Nancy

You have an opinion that a hydra comes only with benefits and because i'm using a demerit of 3 heads = 3 types of weaknesses you just decided it's something scum do. You haven't provided anything AI up until Mastina posted the wall so i just POE'd you based on Mastina.
Tunneling a view to suit their needs is something scum do, not town

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me.

If you have 3 heads to make reads it makes perfect sense to me that you have 3X the weaknesses that comes along with it.
Well it makes sense that you want all the advantage's you have against solo players while disregarding the demerits that come alongside it.

I come as provocative here, but your vote on me was for terrible reasons(In my opinion). I also asked before-hand that people should look at stuff outside me and come back once the deadline approaches. You didn't do anything and came straight to milk me(Again my opinion). I see that as you trying to act like you are doing something, while actually doing nothing; Which is again, scum mentality.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Other things pinging me is that she has us and Penguin in her PoE who had previously defended her, that is something scum are far more likely to do than town.
~Nancy

I am of the opinion that town should make reads while taking everything in and not be swayed by them being defended/townread.
I had reasons to believe Catguin is scum because he (In my opinion) slipped government. The read on your slot was indeed shallow, but scumlean was stronger than my other non-scum reads.
I have experience with scum pocketing me after they hard defended me, and i proceeded to lose the game in lylo so it's kinda like ptsd

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Splitting up reads based off of different hydra heads is extremely suss to me.

If you have 3 heads to make reads it makes perfect sense to me that you have 3X the weaknesses that comes along with it.
Well it makes sense that you want all the advantage's you have against solo players while disregarding the demerits that come alongside it.

Well, I’ve see scum do that with hydra heads and to me especially you’re splitting up Bombsy heads could possibly be a scum tactic to push that slot later on. You can essentially locktown one hydra head and still push that slot later if you have divided reads on them.

Yes i can see scum use that tactic, but i didn't even TR any of you yet. This could apply to the Luke&Marci hydra tho.
I was never in a 3p hydra, which i assume is very chaotic; So it seems like a valid strat to divide the different heads based on reads.

I also don’t see how we’re an alternative sr either, so that also weirds me out. What have we even done here that anyone could even consider to be remotely scummy?

I stated that i didn't have much confidence in my reads apart from Catguin. Flavia is obv scum based on Frog's read(Even if he changed his read, i don't really agree to it). Johnny is just coasting without any real opinions. Asking questions to make it seem like he is doing something.

There is 0 reasons that make any sense to me for you to have us as an alternative sr.

I see this as overly dismissive and defensive

~Nancy

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You talk the talk, but you have yet to walk the walk.

What have you done this game for it to warrant a townread on you? Nothing.
The only thing is the scumread on me on the 11th hour and mastina going off wallposting.

I'm expecting town!Mastina to go full on deus vult on her scumreads so she is currently either not town or has no strong scumreads.

Like literally dafuq?

You didn’t nullread us, you put as as an alternative sr with no explanation for that whatsoever. And now you’re seriously saying that the only townie thing we’ve done is my recent vote on you? How is that even a thought that comes from town? You logically ought to have either been null or tr us prior to that vote and only expressing any suspicion on us post vote. You have a townie thought progression assbackwards here.
THIS as well. There’s no good reason that I can think of for doing this so prematurely as town. Tprs generally don’t want to yah know telegraph to scum, hey I’m a tpr, please nk me tonight. Also your your AtEing pretty much every single post looks fake to me.

~Nancy

Laughing which is a scum tell. The reason was explained despite how weak it was, and i stated in #377 that i'm expecting mastina to attack her scumreads hard if she is town.

In conclusion you were overly defensive over a weak read, tunneling my actions as coming from scum without even thinking it can come from town
Laughing dismissing and degrading my reasonings.

And you have yet to give an opinion on the topics i stated here. Well not exactly true, but i find it half-assed

I don't see a point in talking to you anymore Do you think i'm 3rd party or i have a partner. Is there scum bussing me right now. If i'm town then who is actually scum. Any reads with substance apart from me?

[Kokabiel]

@Kookaburra

Why do you trust Passenger so much? I think that slot is nothing but bad news for Residents. I'm pretty sure NYM is a Resident and is trying to vote out the Delegates/Government. They wrote #460 because they disagree with your reads not because they are trying to make you look bad. You and Nancy are both fiery so the communication is turning confrontational but I'm pretty sure you're on the same team.
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but i find most people here underperforming. I think Passenger has been trying to sort the game, going back and forth on reads even if it's a bit clumsy. His tilt on you kinda reverberates(Is this the correct term) with my situation.
That and i want to yeet other people who are either scummy or useless.

@Kookaburra

, did you paraphrase your flavor yet? That might help lend some authenticity that you at least aren't a

Dictator

Government agent.

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

[Kokabiel]

@Kookaburra

Why do you trust Passenger so much? I think that slot is nothing but bad news for Residents. I'm pretty sure NYM is a Resident and is trying to vote out the Delegates/Government. They wrote #460 because they disagree with your reads not because they are trying to make you look bad. You and Nancy are both fiery so the communication is turning confrontational but I'm pretty sure you're on the same team.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but i find most people here underperforming. I think Passenger has been trying to sort the game, going back and forth on reads even if it's a bit clumsy. His tilt on you kinda reverberates(Is this the correct term) with my situation.
That and i want to yeet other people who are either scummy or useless.

@Kookaburra

, did you paraphrase your flavor yet? That might help lend some authenticity that you at least aren't a

Dictator

Government agent.

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

[Kokabiel]

And im not angry anymore, it's more like resignation, saltiness and annoyance

[Kokabiel]

Even if we flip the dictator i have no way of proving i'm not with the delegation so i'm basically live bait at this point.
I'll always be under suspicion and even if i somehow make it to lylo it's game over.

[Kokabiel]

I think i remember seeing the word dictator somewhere in mods posts, but i can't find it

@Mod: Did you edit the role dictator in your posts so far?

Assuming what i said about my flavor is true, why would government!Frog defend me if scum will learn of his identity N2 unless he kills me?

[Kokabiel]

So the moon light dancer who is an advocate used an ability that does not confirm their alignment but does out "The Government" in 2 turns unless they die now.
Is the government town or scum?

*starts bleeding from the eyes and mouth*

[Kokabiel]

I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.

Your role is that, you, as a

townie

, activate your ability.

And then the

3rd party

gets a mod pm, saying that the

scum team

will be informed of their identity, unless you, a

townie

, are eliminated this day phase.

Meaning, if you live, then

the scum team

gains information?

Given they don't get the result until Night 2, what stops the government from just... killing you tonight?

Isn't having two killing roles kind of an overkill? And if i'm the prime wagon, why wouldn't they just... yeet me anyways?
I don't have any info on the governments role tho.
We might have a lookout or a tracker or protective also

Also, if you ability only works if you live, why did you earlier describe it as:

an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.

I wanted to spite you all for a bit without going anti-win condition. My flip would just inform you that government needs to kill me to not get outed instead of me just telling you verbally.

[Kokabiel]

You see, one of the contradictions to their approach is that they don't need bait to out the government. It's baked into their role.

Me revealing gives info to the Delegation(Scum team if you don't know). So how would that benefit the town? Scum would ignore the delegation until lylo then kill him.
When i was an easy elim i just popped it to try and bait the government and persuade people to do something else. I caught Catguin, people didn't do much else and now you are coming in here without even knowing what government even is.

[Kokabiel]

You see, one of the contradictions to their approach is that they don't need bait to out the government. It's baked into their role.

Me revealing gives info to the Delegation(Scum team if you don't know). So how would that benefit the town? Scum would ignore the delegation until lylo then kill him.
When i was an easy elim i just popped it to try and bait the government and persuade people to do something else. I caught Catguin, people didn't do much else and now you are coming in here without even knowing what government even is.

The government is anti-everyone else. Them dying benefits the town and the scum team, I don't think they would wait on that unless they had a pressing concern (town who is harassing them)

How does killing a 3P during a night benefit scum? It would just pull out all the stops for town to get scum without worrying "is this dlegation or government"
I see it more likely they would try and yeet him for some credit instead of wasting a shot on him.

I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

I find it hard to believe that the 3P's reaction to getting a PM that says "if you don't get Koka killed, then you will be outed to the scum team" is to immediately naked vote you and then call you scum.

Like, even if your role is real, this is not what the 3P does immediately after getting that info.

VOTE: kokabiel

it be scum

And it would be fairly immediate, seeing as how the advocate reveal is post 256.

Pedit: The plot thickens

It's not immediate. Penguin already scumread me even if he didn't state it. He broke character with his comments right after the announcement which is a pretty big tell. And now he is lurking because he doesn't feel pressure

[Kokabiel]

Now we wait for Rodent

[Kokabiel]

If it were you, what would you do if you need to kill someone by vote without killing them by vote?
Even if they have a nightkill, there is a high chance that someone will have something on them like a doctor, a lookout etc.
I'm just speaking this using my own logic ftr

[Kokabiel]

It benefits scum because the scum team lose when the 3rd party wins. they're the anti-faction, faction. The scum team has just as much incentive to kill the third party as they do town.
The only difference is that the scum team *might* let the third party live a day or two if they have more pressing concerns.

I was talking about what the 3p would do if he needs to yeet someone without a night kill.

But on the topic of scum vs 3P. While everything is situational, i find it dumb for scum to kill 3p on N1/N2 until town loses vast majority.
It makes perfect sense to me to leave 3P as a potential miselim and kill him a night before lylo in the best case scenario. If they lose 1 scum, town would feel pressured to find the 3P. If 3P is a killing role, the chances of hitting scum are on the low end and gradually going up. I don't see a problem with my logic here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In this situation scum/3P only need to kill Frog to make the game go on artificial respiration since half the roster is either lurking or doesn't even care about the game.

[Kokabiel]

First thing everyone should know: my role isn't called Advocate or Moonlight Dancer. My ability is called Advocate, but my role is actually called

Proponent

. Koka has already botched their role claim as far as flavor goes. I'm fairly certain Koka isn't claiming their real role name because it would sound scummy and didn't think anyone else was also an Advocate. Though Koka did say the correct trigger phrase "Represent Residents", as that was mine as well.

Besides that, the secondary effect from my ability let's me send a message to my target mod-confirming me as town. I'd like for this player to announce this, please.

I see, so your role is arguably pro-town since you can confirm yourself while mine is arguably pro-delegation since i give info to the scum team.

[Kokabiel]

Koka, how does your flavor of advocate get to q moonlight dancer?

Like, in my mind an "advocate" is [someone] who is doing things for [someone or something else].

How is that getting to "you can have your own pr name revealed?"

I pm the mod "Represent Residents" and the mod confirms my role in the main thread.
It makes sense since an advocate is "a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy." according to wiki

This also reads as having got a scum PM because my role flavor actually explains why I'm an Advocate. It makes more sense to refer to that than looking up a definition on wikipedia.

I had no idea what advocate means, i thought it was something like a lawyer. Proponant gives the same explanation as advocate when i google it.

[Kokabiel]

Btw why did you out yourself, i'm going to die anyway

[Kokabiel]

Imagine saving it till lylo

[Kokabiel]

My role name is Advocate. It's role is Advocate i'm assuming because an Advocate advocates. And when i pm the mod he confirms that i'm an advocate which is my role name.

[Kokabiel]

Mine and Roden's roles are slightly different so i'm assuming the names are different cuz of that.

[Kokabiel]

Hi everyone. I'm the Miller

This gives a fake result and not a misleading?

[Kokabiel]

I already explained how my thinking process went and why i think scum won't kill 3P until the end, but 3P will still lose because of it and why they would be reluctant to NK me (If they even can)

[Kokabiel]

The only thing i don't understand is why Roden claimed NOW instead of waiting for lylo

[Kokabiel]

Getting yeeted is actually a mercy because i won't have to deal with all this shit afterwards.

[Kokabiel]

@Nancy
I am a human being with my own thoughts, logic and reads.
I said my reasons for passenger being town which is enough concerning the rest of the roster. I did take note of the fact he gave up after frog processed him.
I don't see how Rodens actions make him scum, i find it quite towny instead. I asked why he claimed now because thats the only thing i found weird.
My read on you? You haven't even acknowledged my read on you nor answered my questions. And now you are saying i should reevaluate my read on you based on???
You are being self centered. I guess i can see you as one of those town who keep saying "why dont you tr me look at my posts omg u suck".
That attitude where everything that doesnt match up with you is scum pings me as scum but ive acknowledged it as your playstyle

The main reason im being scumread is because my thought process is different from the majority, but almost no one even thought it was Nai. If i go a step further everybody must think im some mastermind if i can fake my thought process this much

[Kokabiel]

How cruel. I don't even have the satifaction of thinking my reads are good anymore.

[Kokabiel]

Based on activity the only one who didnt confirm Roden is Flavia.
The alternative is Penguin going Vla without bothering to answer

[Kokabiel]

Roden your plan failed.
If i hadn't revealed first you mightve caught them, but it is what it is.

[Kokabiel]

VOTE: Roden
Roden's theory about Frog being government actually has a hole.
Government!Frog would receive two messages confirming Roden as town. One because he is government who received notification from mod that Roden is conf town; And one from Roden confirming himself as town. What would you guys think if you received confirmation 2 times?
There is also no point in government!Frog to defend me this hard FMPOV since he needs me dead.

Roden also says i botched my claim, but there is a lot of precedent of Mod providing a fake claim for games with flavor like these. How stupid would i need to be not to see it. If i were scum who got a role called i dunno consigilere and no fake claims you bet i'm going to find something more believable on the net that may use the term advocate. Spokesman or Lawyer are the first things that pop into my mind.

I think Roden is pushing for a Frog miselim because it will handicap town severely.

[Kokabiel]

Since he claimed after me, He also has leevay to modify his role somewhat because there is precedent. I believe while the basis is the same, our roles are fundamentally different

[Kokabiel]

His Gambit of revealing now to check if Frog is government also makes no sense. I find it hard to believe town!Roden would waste his confirmability like this when it's such an amazing boon for late game

[Kokabiel]

UNVOTE:

At least until Koka gets in here and explains the Advocate thing.

~Luke

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

Looks like a role explanation to me and not a claim but you are just grasping at straws cuz you got caught

[Kokabiel]

My role is anti-government not anti-town since it gives the scum team no info on the town
You also stalled the game for a day so town would be forced to make a quick decision based on an illogical gambit

[Kokabiel]

If you suspected Frog of what you claimed, you would've hopped on him as soon as you saw him not responding

[Kokabiel]

Roden your plan failed.
If i hadn't revealed first you mightve caught them, but it is what it is.

Doesn't seem like you thought so earlier.

Based on activity the only one who didnt confirm Roden is Flavia.
The alternative is Penguin going Vla without bothering to answer

Yes, it sure doesn't seem like i thought the extent of your plan was to bait government and confirm yourself with a townread of yyours.

First thing everyone should know: my role isn't called Advocate or Moonlight Dancer. My ability is called Advocate, but my role is actually called

Proponent

. Koka has already botched their role claim as far as flavor goes. I'm fairly certain Koka isn't claiming their real role name because it would sound scummy and didn't think anyone else was also an Advocate. Though Koka did say the correct trigger phrase "Represent Residents", as that was mine as well.

Besides that, the secondary effect from my ability let's me send a message to my target mod-confirming me as town. I'd like for this player to announce this, please.

I see, so your role is arguably pro-town since you can confirm yourself while mine is arguably pro-delegation since i give info to the scum team.

I mean, you argued my case for me here. Not sure why you're trying to claim otherwise now.

Reads aren't static. Everything clicked to me the moment you revealed your "master plan".
Instead of getting confirmed by a town read of yours you decide to send 2 confirmations to Frog. Brilliant, i'm sure everybody will believe you that you can confirm yourself now and have not lied about your role.

Also I have a theory that Koka's role also reveals their alignment to the Government. However, I think that there's a good chance they're actually a Traitor, and that their Advocate reveal also tells the main scum team that they're a Traitor. Which is why I asked Nancy what kind of roles could possibly want to get eliminated; if Koka is a Traitor, they might be trying to look scummy in order to sacrifice themself for a scum buddy who got run up AKA Passenger.

Yeah, speaking of Traitors, your play here fits the bill you defined here.

[Kokabiel]

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

Also still no real answer given why you waited to reveal yourself here instead of immediately activating it and explaining how it works at the start of the game.

You have yet to disprove a single thing i called you out for and are just looking for stuff to make me look bad, but i'll bite.
I made that plan when i thought i was done for and wanted to get some info for future use. Didn't feel the need to claim at start because it doesn't give any info to town nor does it prove me.
And before you say

"You said you revealed for info but stated it doesn't give info"

, the circumstances changed thus i acted accordingly

[Kokabiel]

Btw my role card doesn't mention scum knowing they will receive info, so i'm assuming they didn't know about it until i claimed.
Not sure if it's even relevant

[Kokabiel]

Find someone else to make a scum theatre with.
I refuse to get incriminated by a dying scum

[Kokabiel]

Is nobody even going to consider the points i made?
Stop being useless and lazy.

[Kokabiel]

You are just latching onto technicalities without looking at the picture and ignoring all the incriminating evidence im pointing to

[Kokabiel]

Master Bell please tell me what about my logic is flawed.

Johnny isnt even worth talking to, his mind is on page 10 at most

[Kokabiel]

My last two posts werent meant for you specifically Bell.
Johnny doesn't even show signs he is paying attention to the game

[Kokabiel]

You ignored all the hard work people did so you are the rude one

[Kokabiel]

Why do you think Frog, N.Y.M and Luke are scum?

[Kokabiel]

I actually put a decent amount of work into this game and its frustrating people dont even bother to read my posts.
Almost every sr on me is hollow without any specific reason, nobody told me this is bad cuz of X and Y. Everybody just says Kokabiel is scum and votes.
I have stooped so low that even the bottom tiered Johnny degrades me like this.
I would like to say how many times i contributed more in comparison to him bu any number i multiply with johnnys zero is still zero.
Like, why are you in this game if you are too busy to make a single post with content!

Since nobody gives two shits about my posts ill stick to memes and puppies. If i make you laugh hard enough you might yeet someone else.
Hell i shouldve done that since the beginning

[Kokabiel]

Spoiler:

[Kokabiel]

Spoiler:

[Kokabiel]

Yeah this is no good. I can't clear myself and i think Passenger is town, so that's 2 miselims.
I suppose it's time to come out with my modifier.
When i get modconfirmed the government receives a notification that the delegation will find out their identity during the next night phase(N2 in this case) unless i get killed.
I didn't say anything so i could watch the votes on me and their reasonings and Catguin looked like he had an eureka moment right after i got Modconfirmed. And AFTER that he asked what the hell a moonlight dancer is.

It's a Moonlight dancer with an additional on-death trigger, and no it's sadly not a vengeful.
I claimed and gave out my reads so there is no info you can get from me apart from the flip. So y'all useless lazy town without any reads better start working. 4 Days remaining, you can always come back to finish the job.

I just feel the need to clarify so it doesnt get taken out of context.
3p gets outed on n2 meaning they have d1 n1 and d2 to kill me. I was easily yeetable d1 so thats why i assumed they would just... Push me. Penguin broke character right after my reveal.
When i said its sadly not a vengeful, i meant it as "i want to kill one of you f-s so badly but i cant so dont worry cuz its nothing bad.

And the botched claim thingy. Roden just lied? I mean im pretty certain mod gave scum fake claims so you wouldnt be able to catch me cuz of botched claim.
Roden claimed after me and just changed the role name to make it look like i lied because even i have to admit my role name and ability is weird

[Kokabiel]

@mod what does this mean exactly?

Advocate is a flavoured term for Moonlight Dancer.

A moonlight dancer reveals as a moonlight dancer, so an advocate reveals as an advocate.
Cant believe i didnt see such an obvious thing till now

[Kokabiel]

My best guess is that he is a traitor.
He yeets me now, i flip and everybody goes "OH NO! Anyway..."
Then he flips Frogs slot and its already 2 days wasted by the time we catch him.
Scum get 2 more night kills. Dunno if 3p can even kill, but if yes that might be 2 more. So its down to 8 people no scum dead in worst case

[Kokabiel]

oops i missed that things got unfrozen and probably won't have time to parse all this before deadline. I'm inclined to let MT/Roden sort itself out and go ahead with limming koka?

Lazyness/Lack of interest

Koka continues to scum it up and MT’s hard defense there is not a good look.

Still happy with my vote. Bombay can have a rarely earned real D1 town read from me.

0 effort scum, just look at his iso.

MT is almost certainly 3p here. She feels very different to Large Normal 241 and I don’t like the way she’s defending Roden. I also agree with Bombay’s case on how it’s odd that she and Frogster are approaching the game from the same place.

Ignorance.

Nothing i can do about the first 2 sadly.
@Passenger: Why would 3p defend me? If Frog were government, he

should've gotten two confirmations

from Roden.
Roden's plan has such big holes it swallowed everybodies brain. He refused to answer any of my pokes on his actions because

HE KNOWS HE CAN'T ANSWER

, and just started nitpicking at stuff in my wording i clearly disproved.

The whole situation here can be explained in two sentences:
1)Roden lied about his role name to get me eliminated
2)Roden lied about him being able to confirm himself. To get Frog eliminated.

Optimal town!roden play:
If he wanted to get only me out he would've stayed quiet and saved the role for when it mattered.

He outed himself and "confirmed" his alignment to Frog out of all people and turned it into a "My word against yours situation". And that situation will be ongoing for D2 as well.

At the very least don't waste my death because of your incompetence and laziness

[Kokabiel]

Gl to Nancy and Luke, i liked how you play.
I advise Penguin and Johnny not to join games they dont plan on participating in cuz it ruins the fun for most people.
I hope someone plays the worlds smallest violin for me!