Newbie 2087 | Celebrating Betty White | End!

[Ahri]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

[Somnus]

It's literally on the site's wiki. I've given my extensive reasons for my vote. Can you at least explain yours?

[Ahri]

idk

vibes

[Cape90]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars

Eliminate (Lim) All Liars is a longstanding mantra in the mafiascum.net community. Quite simply, most Townies have no reason to lie about their actions, motivations, or roles. Many newish Townies will attempt to lie in attempts to gambit, and fail miserably by hurting the Town in the process.

These lies can be indistinguishable from deliberate scum gambits, and leaving them unpunished reinforces the behavior as a viable option for scum.

For example, Vanilla Townies who try to roleclaim Doctor in an attempt to draw the Mafia's Night-kill tend to cause the real Doctor to counterclaim them, thus definitely causing the Mafia to target them. In addition to this, scum have been known to deliberately fakeclaim Doctor with the express purpose of drawing a counterclaim for this reason. The elimination of the Vanilla Townie is then justified.

Generally, gambits are not successful. If they were, they would probably be on this wiki or otherwise public knowledge. Thus, rather than wind up on the receiving end of Eliminate All Liars, it is best not to try to gambit unless you fully understand the implications of your actions. This comes primarily with experience.

Eliminate All Liars is also why scum should not wantonly gamble with the Town's patience as well.

Meh. I dunno if I fully endorse this school of thinking. I think it is situational

[Cape90]

idk

vibes

Might agree. But I honestly kinda just think it's Progo though their line of thinking is a bit convoluted

[MalcolmTucker]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars

Eliminate (Lim) All Liars is a longstanding mantra in the mafiascum.net community. Quite simply, most Townies have no reason to lie about their actions, motivations, or roles. Many newish Townies will attempt to lie in attempts to gambit, and fail miserably by hurting the Town in the process.

These lies can be indistinguishable from deliberate scum gambits, and leaving them unpunished reinforces the behavior as a viable option for scum.

For example, Vanilla Townies who try to roleclaim Doctor in an attempt to draw the Mafia's Night-kill tend to cause the real Doctor to counterclaim them, thus definitely causing the Mafia to target them. In addition to this, scum have been known to deliberately fakeclaim Doctor with the express purpose of drawing a counterclaim for this reason. The elimination of the Vanilla Townie is then justified.

Generally, gambits are not successful. If they were, they would probably be on this wiki or otherwise public knowledge. Thus, rather than wind up on the receiving end of Eliminate All Liars, it is best not to try to gambit unless you fully understand the implications of your actions. This comes primarily with experience.

Eliminate All Liars is also why scum should not wantonly gamble with the Town's patience as well.

Meh. I dunno if I fully endorse this school of thinking. I think it is situational

I think it can certainly have its uses but it's arguably riskier towards the endgame. We've essentially got two shots at finding mafia: if it's not Progo there's a big risk the town loses.

I dunno, it's a tough one. I don't think you've done all that much that makes you seem particularly mafia, just on my original Day 1 vote theory it's a lot more likely to be you, and your brief interactions with Korina indicate you could be a team.

The other outside-the-box option is that Somnus has played an absolute blinder. But I get the impression they'd be a fairly cautious mafia player - can't see them advising Korina to claim mason. Potentially better to fight it out and hope they'd escape.

I'd be happy to potentially switch to Progo this turn though if it's a consensus, and then advocate for you being next to go if it's not immediate game over. Not sure I'd want potentially both you gone now and Somnus in the night if the mafia were to take a pop given Ahri clearly doesn't care about the game anymore and potentially wouldn't be swayed by me on a final turn.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-5

Betty White was a recurring character on another spin-off in the early 1980s: Mama's Family, based on a recurring sketch on the Carol Burnett show. The sketches were about a darkly funny, down and out, dysfunctional family. The full show wasn't so dark and evolved into a sunny and cartoonish sitcom over time.

ProgoWoshua

(1): Somnus

MalcolmTucker

(1): Ahri

Cape90

(1): MalcolmTucker

Not Voting

(2): ProgoWoshua, Cape90

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: February 8, Noon US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-02-08 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[MalcolmTucker]

What are you thinking re your vote Cape? Quite split at the moment...like I said, could be tempted back onto Progo this turn and eliminate you if that doesn't work for us.

[ProgoWoshua]

We've essentially got two shots at finding mafia: if it's not Progo there's a big risk the town loses.

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

The exception is if either me or Ahri gets mis-eliminated today. If that happened, then the Town would have it's only shot to eliminate Mafia at ELo. What's more likely, that the Town would eliminate the last scum when there's 5 players left, or 3?

Because of that, the Town has better odds if the game reaches ELo with either me or Ahri dead.

That's why I open claimed Mafia. I thought that if I was more valuable dead than alive, then I would die in the craziest way possible to squeeze every last bit of info, to give the remaining townies the best shot at ELo possible.

But I was weak. I gave in and back down pretty much immediately. I actually regret giving up. I should have seen the end of it.

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

[Cape90]

I really don't have a lot of voting options here

[Cape90]

You know, looking back again, I think Malcolm was trying to in bad faith push me. Basically this whole time, kind of like Korina, which when Korina was pushing Malcolm, it was obviously never gonna go through, they did this to distance I can bet.

Malcolm gives this pretty weak case on why me/Korina are a mafia team in 1223 and then just doubles down on it in 1280 with no given consideration to 1225.

Not to even mention that yes, while Malcolm did suspect this, there is also Malcolm saying just a day earlier, pretty deep into day 2 1187 which did the opposite of age like fine wine, it more aged like spoiled milk. Well I would guess it is becasue of the claims, but as a towny, they should just solve it before E-1 for sure and in a 2 scum game, I think going for a 50/50 is big value. Quick thinking about that for more then a second will reveal that that was the right play. Oh and he brings up this aforementioned Ahri suspicion that... was literally never touched on today.

Oh and get this in 1139, "I'm not really getting why Korina would be voting for me at this stage if we were a team" now this excerpt here is a little on the nose yeah?

I have mentioned before that Korina built up a stronger scumcase on me then proceeded to vote Malcolm over me yeah? Well I think I have finally found the reasoning, it was staring me right in the face.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

1 vote til elim, discuss

[ProgoWoshua]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

Okay but the key here is that Ahri isn't even voting you and yet you still hold on to the belief that in a final 3 situation, you will get voted by them in final 3

[ProgoWoshua]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

Okay but the key here is that Ahri isn't even voting you and yet you still hold on to the belief that in a final 3 situation, you will get voted by them in final 3

I'm sorry if I made things unclear. In post #1283, I explained what my thought process was at the beginning of the Day. At the beginning of the Day, Ahri did vote for me.

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

Okay but the key here is that Ahri isn't even voting you and yet you still hold on to the belief that in a final 3 situation, you will get voted by them in final 3

Oh, oh I see
I'm sorry if I made things unclear. In post #1283, I explained what my thought process was at the beginning of the Day. At the beginning of the Day, Ahri did vote for me.

[Somnus]

We've essentially got two shots at finding mafia: if it's not Progo there's a big risk the town loses.

Because of that,

the Town has better odds if the game reaches ELo with either me or Ahri dead.

That's why I open claimed Mafia. I thought that if I was more valuable dead than alive, then I would die in the craziest way possible to squeeze every last bit of info, to give the remaining townies the best shot at ELo possible.

But I was weak. I gave in and back down pretty much immediately. I actually regret giving up. I should have seen the end of it.

I agree with the first part, but the group seems to think otherwise at this point. As for the 2nd and 3rd part, I'm not buying it at all and you quickly changed your mind on it anyway. We didn't gain any info. Only confusion.

[Somnus]

I don't feel like there's much more that I can add here. If you guys feel that pushing Malcom through today is the right play, it looks to me like you have the votes. If you're right and it ends the game, I'll take it and you can take some shots at me post-game while we celebrate. However, I'm not a fan at all of giving the Day 3 deciding vote, as well as potentially a game-deciding vote on a Day 4 to a player who:

-Put himself at E-1
-Open-claimed mafia
-Quickly walked it back
-Gave flimsy explanations for it
-Went from reading Ahri as scum virtually the entire game to suddenly reading Cape as scum the exact moment that Cape had a vote on him and Ahri unvotes, and it became clear Ahri wasn't realistically getting voted off today
-Gave more contradictory explanations for doing so

I'm not even town-reading Malcolm. I'd put him at null or a slight scum-lean. I just think that the worst case scenario of a Progo lim where he flips town looks significantly better and clears up a lot of stuff for a potential Day 4 compared to the alternative. Do as you feel is best.

[MalcolmTucker]

Increasingly agreeing with the above from Somnus, would be happy to eliminate Progo at this point. I'm not particularly sure what I've even done to particularly indicate leaning mafia other than accuse a couple of people here.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Progo

[Cape90]

casually giving Progo hammer with the apparent incentive to kill Progo should probably say a lot about Malcolm. Malcolm expressed no concern about this whatsoever after all.

Progo's actions have ranged from pretty towny to donwright confusing.

Malcolm has played a more straightforward game that is honestly more meh inducing then whatever Progo has been doing, like I can have strong opinions on Progo but not exactly Malcolm though I do feel like Malcolm's actions are actions I would expect to see from a mafia. I mean, just look at 1293. What I see here is oppurtunism, Malcolm wants to win and the best path to victory for mafia Malcolm is to push Progo instead of me because that is where the threadstate is at right now. Oh and about that second part "I'm not particularly sure what I've even done to particularly indicate leaning mafia other than accuse a couple of people here." Oh come on now, could it really be more transparent, I do get the feeling of not knowing why you are being suspected, happens somewhat often to me, however it is pretty clear that I provided something in regards to that, a reason, a whole case. And I think Malcolm has just been disengaged with all of this and kinda is autopiloting right now.

Now anyway, if Malcolm could receive the hammer treatment, that would be really cool.

[MalcolmTucker]

I've outlined my reasons for changing my vote from you to Progo quite clearly, I reckon there's a better chance you'll be mafia but it seems unlikely you'll be eliminated this turn. Progo strikes me as the next best option at this point and as Somnus has outlined above some posts have been incredibly suspect. If we eliminate Progo and the game isn't over I'd absolutely be on you next unless we get any good evidence it's Somnus or Ahri somehow.

[Cape90]

I've outlined my reasons for changing my vote from you to Progo quite clearly, I reckon there's a better chance you'll be mafia but it seems unlikely you'll be eliminated this turn. Progo strikes me as the next best option at this point and as Somnus has outlined above some posts have been incredibly suspect. If we eliminate Progo and the game isn't over I'd absolutely be on you next unless we get any good evidence it's Somnus or Ahri somehow.

yeah but like, you handed the hammer to Progo, they are likely not going to hammer themselves

[Cape90]

I've outlined my reasons for changing my vote from you to Progo quite clearly, I reckon there's a better chance you'll be mafia but it seems unlikely you'll be eliminated this turn. Progo strikes me as the next best option at this point and as Somnus has outlined above some posts have been incredibly suspect. If we eliminate Progo and the game isn't over I'd absolutely be on you next unless we get any good evidence it's Somnus or Ahri somehow.

yeah but like, you handed the hammer to Progo, they are likely not going to hammer themselves

[ProgoWoshua]

Ok, hope this works...

VOTE: MalcolmTucker