newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[Clasko]

Hello, everyone! Nice to meet you all!

So, RVS - VOTE: Ivyeo - Hi!

This is my first Mafia game on this site, although I've played, like, 3-4 games elsewhere offsite back in 2014, so bear with me if there's the odd abbreviation I don't understand that isn't detailed in the wiki.

[Clasko]

UNVOTE: Ivyeo - They spoke; I'm happy.

S'ppose I'll poke an SE now:

VOTE: Egix96 - Hi. Feeling any town vibes from anyone? Or too soon to say, do you reckon?

I guess the above question applies to anyone who's around, really...

[Clasko]

Whoops! Also, off-topic, but:

Btw, today is my husbands birthday, so I probably won't check this forum again until in the morning. Promise to be more after that tho

Hope it's a good one~

[Clasko]

considering that you haven't played in a long time, I imagine you would be eager to contribute.

The two aren't mutually exclusive from where I'm standing. If anything I'm more nervous due to being out of the game for a long time.

I'm curious as to what your own thoughts are.

(/T) - Town-lean:

(/T) on Demainer AND WhemeStar - their argument feels cyclical and non-scripted = less chance to be W v. W; also sparking discussion evidenced by Ivyeo's 79.
(/T) on Lukewarm - contributes to discussion and I like the tone of their posts.

I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned.

[Clasko]

UNVOTE: Egix96

[Clasko]

Whoa, okay:

Are you concerned that you'll get scumread, or have bad reads? Or something different?

If I'm answering truthfully, from my perspective, my nerves come from interacting with 8 strangers on the internet playing a game I love, but having outdated experience in.

Also, in response to being scum-read/bad reads, whilst I feel they're inevitable in every game, yes, I am afraid of making mistakes and looking bad. I also hate offending people and try to avoid it in games I'm in at all costs.

Clasko hardly said anything until someone questioned it, then he town-read whemestar (my biggest scum vibes) because

their argument feels cyclical and non-scripted = less chance to be W v. W

And I don't understand the logic. Why would deducing that they are not BOTH scum automatically mean that neither one is?

Clasko why do you townread both of us if you don’t think it’s a WvW argument?

The town-leans come more from the active discussion being generated from the argument they're both having:

(/T) on Demainer AND WhemeStar - their argument feels cyclical and non-scripted = less chance to be W v. W;

also sparking discussion evidenced by Ivyeo's 79.

If I had thought about my post some more, I probably should have put the bolded part of that sentence

before

the W v. W thing - sorry if this caused confusion.

[Clasko]

tbh, Clasko, I think you're townreading way too easily.

Yup, hence why I labelled them leans instead of reads.

[Clasko]

I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned.

Probably about time I did this now:

Spoiler:

TTT = Confirmed town
TT = Strong town read
T = Town read
/T = Town lean
/ = Neutral
/M = Mafia lean
M = Mafia read
MM = Strong mafia read
MMM = Confirmed mafia

- Ahri: - / - Not much to inspect from their posts.
- endlessdark: - / - Post 115 was helpful - I'd like to hear more from them.
- Egix96: - /M - Whilst I think his questions and contributions are helpful to town, they feel finely placed and thought-out... not enough to use the word "artificial" though.
- Ivyeo: - /M - Too back and forth on WhemeStar now, especially after the interaction with Lukewarm.
- Lukewarm: - /T - Pushing their mafia reads just feels like unnecessary drama given the deadline, and I have to further inspect their interaction with Ivyeo later, but otherwise this stays the same.
- Saudade: - ?? - Recently posted so I'll check that out some other time.
- WhemeStar: - /T - I look at their ISO and I don't immediately see him as Mafia. I think he responds well against Demainer. Not much else to say.
- Demainer: - /T - I still hold this opinion from post 86.

[Clasko]

Whoops, mis-linked endlessdark's 115! ...

[Clasko]

And I don't understand the logic. Why would deducing that they are not BOTH scum automatically mean that neither one is?

Right now, I think that I am most leaning towards it being Clasko, and that earlier in the conversation when he was trying to clear Whemestar and Deaminer (because he did not think they were W v W) he was trying to steer the conversation away from his partner. I am not sure which one that is, but I had been leaning more towards Whemestar.

I acknowledge your opinions, but I have just a couple of things to say:

In my W v. W argument, there is a scenario that both are town (T v. T). Me town-leaning both Demainer and WhemeStar isn't outside the realms of possibility - I liked what Demainer was saying, and I also liked WhemeStar's responses.

he was trying to steer the conversation away from his partner.

The simple truth is that Egix96 asked me what I thought, and I responded to him. They weren't the most evident-rich leans, and even though I had very little information on hand, I didn't have any problems in expressing what I felt of the game so far in regards to the three I mentioned.

[Clasko]

I'm finding it hard to see how what you've written about me resolves to a scum lean overall, especially since you seemingly liked my 65 enough to warrant unvoting me.

To clarify, my vote on you that day was still RVS in an attempt to get you to respond and share your thoughts in that moment in time. When I heard from you, I was happy, and unvoted, and did the same for Ivyeo earlier in Day 1.

It's more a gut feel than anything. I looked at your ISO, and I don't see much wrong. I think your 73 was solid and you ask sensible questions. I then ask if Mafia would do the same, and I can't say no. *shrug* I'm not aware of your playstyle or your previous experience so you probably shouldn't pay too much attention to this, but this is currently how I feel.

I did mean it, though, when I said your posts are pro-town: I found 169 and 170 very informative and helpful.

[Clasko]

... Lots to process, lots to think about. Will cast my vote tomorrow.

Pretty sure the Mod added 24h to the deadline due to weekend difficulties logging in? (from his last VC)

[Clasko]

... Hunting for PR, or an attempt to incriminate the people on Ahri's wagon, perhaps?

[Clasko]

How does that incriminate the people on Ahri's wagon?

If Ahri wasn't the chosen N1K, her wagon from D1 would have probably gone unchallenged - due to her inactivity in-game making her a reasonable choice for an elimination.

But, she was killed, and now there's more reason to look at her wagon.

Also, if mafia are on Wheme's wagon, as Wheme himself said before he died, mafia'll want a temporary diversion. But for the record I think this kill was more to find a power role:

not a pr soft don't read into it

Maybe they read into it.

[Clasko]

I'm assuming you both didn't like this line of dialogue?

And sorry Wheme for the misread, I know I can't bring you back to life but I'll try to avenge the elim.

Also @ Dem, Ivy, Luke & endless:
Your posts were mainly about WhemeStar on D1, but do you guys get any town vibes from anyone in this game? If so, for what reason(s)?

I'd like to know where everyone stands before we discuss ideal D2 elim possibilities.

[Clasko]

Lukewarm: Wheme's flip hardspews Luke as town, this is the most certain read I have so far. It's possible that Luke went for an extended scum play, but I feel that's highly unlikely given the stage at which Luke spewed.

What does "spewed" mean, here? Can you, or someone, elaborate? I've never heard of that term in a Mafia game.

I don't think I expressed my opinion as well as I could have in that post.

I have to take

some

responsibility for this, I suppose, since I could have made my point(s) clearer, and I've definitely had "weird" opinions and posts. I'm not going to apologise or anything because it's all a part of the learning process and people are fine to interpret what I say however they like.

Your posts were mainly about WhemeStar on D1, but do you guys get any town vibes from anyone in this game? If so, for what reason(s)?

Still waiting on Ivy & endless.
Thanks to the three who responded.

I'm gonna take some time later to review my own earlier read list, which is incredibly out of date, upon writing this. Will be back soon~

[Clasko]

Welcome, Bell!
Alright, was going to do this eventually:

@Everyone: Why aren't you scum this game?

I am a Town Cop - I investigated Egix96 last night, and he is confirmed Town. Dunno if this is the correct play, but here we are.
Two possible Mafia in these five, provided I don't get CC'd:

- Bell
- Demainer
- (endlessdark's replacement)
- Ivyeo
- Lukewarm

Reads to follow!

[Clasko]

Demainer

- I'm struggling to place him here - At D1, he placed his vote on Wheme, kept it there, and pushed him hard throughout the day. He then flips town, and Demainer now looks very bad. He is immediately under scrutiny at D2. I can't see this being a play that Mafia!Demainer employs. Like, what does he gain out of it?

Conversely:

Ivyeo and Ahri both give me bad vibes. They're posting very cautiously in the thread,

There is, and so far ahri's activity does not give me scum vibes. On the other hand, your posting has given me scum vibes, which I find much more compelling than mere inactivity.

Looks kinda contradictory.

Saudade

I felt was neutral before being replaced; I got the feeling they were genuinely unhappy with the gamestate - dunno if this is AI. This can go either way.

Luke

- I'm getting very bad vibes from this man. I don't see someone who is weighing all of the options of who Mafia is at all, and is instead just going all-out on Demainer. Admittedly he has reason to, some of which I agree with and some I do not, and whilst I liked the fact he made a read list, this was counter-balanced by not giving reasonings for any of the placements, outside of the top two, which he has explained elsewhere. His gameplay is good (driving forward, reviving a sluggish game), but I'm going to err on the side of him being a good mafia player who happened to roll Mafia here:

VOTE: Lukewarm

Ivyeo

- Very unsure here. Wheme strongly townread you earlier in the game (which shouldn't be discredited due to him being guaranteed town) but identified you as possible scum on his wagon before he died. I would still like to hear your opinions on others in the thread, so I'll hold off on further inspection.

endlessdark

- Mostly agreeable with others. One thing noteworthy of him is he was one of the only people not pointing the FOS at Demainer. I'm not sure what else to add here.

[Clasko]

Okay, so if I'm right in thinking that Bellslot and Luke are town, and that Ivyeo and Demain are not SvS, then that leaves endlessdark as scum.

Does this mean you believe the remaining wolf is in Ivyeo/Demainer? Or are you still thinking on that?

[Clasko]

Greetings Gentlebeings!

Whoops, almost missed this.

Hello~

[Clasko]

Ivy, clasko, be honest. Are you both filthy imperialists with a mickey mouse accent or are you filthly imperialists that sound like the people on TV and in movies.

while Brits tend to use whilst.

XD

... I might avoid the whole "whilst" thing, even though I am genuinely intrigued!

Brit here, so there you go!

Also conversation isn't coming naturally to me rn given the many pages and posts I must work my way through and I hate skimming over anything in general.

I like fferyllt's stance in this game but ultimately endlessdark's posts and possible pairings can undo everything. I like how she is leaving no stone unturned. For the record I semi-agree with her Ivy theory about her not having a partner, and was thinking this before she brought it up.

Also:

UNVOTE: - because this isn't getting me anywhere, but I still have misgivings over Luke and have been since the beginning of D2.

Ehh... who is my scumteam right now? I'm hesitant to say Bell because I feel mafia!Saudade has a lower chance of leaving D2 given the gamestate at the time compared to town!Saudade but I've never played MS with them before, or anyone else here for that matter. FF knows them better clearly but I haven't had chance to observe previous completed games where Saud's alignment is scum OR town.

If I'm believing Ivy is partnerless for the time being, then maybe there's two in Luke/Demain/FF.

Also, 3:47AM, so... yeah, no, hello bed.

[Clasko]

I really wanted to hear from Clasko and Egix before I went to bed, so I had time to respond to them / mull over their comments before the final hour of Day 2

Why did our confirmed town PR and the person they cleared have to be two of the least active players on the thread

Ugh... do I stay awake for 30 more minutes after all?

[Clasko]

I feel like you might have scum read me because I listed my most suspicious pair as Demainer+you. Which at the time, I was most supicious of demainer and you made the most sense as their partner. We have a lot more info to go off of now tho, so my opinion has changed to demainer+ff.

If you are suspicious of me, which of demainer or ff do you think I could be paired with?

Not at all. It was very much in line with your D1 approach where you were suspicious of me over trying to protect WhemeStar, so I saw sense in you thinking similarly with me and Demainer. Even though I knew it held no water (because I knew I was town in both instances), I understood your rationale.

On the face of it, FF is the more likely pair. I can't see you bussing Demainer here early D2.

Bednowkthx.

[Clasko]

I've made my decision:

VOTE: fferyllt

I will hammer Demainer if need be.

[Clasko]

I don't mind deferring to Egix here if he prefers the Demainer elim over me preferring the fferyllt elim.

[Clasko]

VOTE: Demainer

[Clasko]

GGs everyone!

Sorry Luke. I dunno if WIFOM is the right term to use here but I was definitely on the wrong side of it when looking at your posts; I just didn't know what to think.

If I'm believing Ivy is partnerless for the time being, then maybe there's two in Luke/Demain/FF.

Oof. Correctly identified all three townies as potential maf ofc.

[Clasko]

Clasko, I hope you'll stick around and keep playing, too!

I'll give mafia a couple more tries maybe. I know my play was bad throughout; I could have pressured more, asked more questions, interacted with others more amongst other things... but I also learned a lot. I definitely underestimated the 10-day duration of D1 compared to what I was used to (48h days and 24h nights).

Thanks as well to you, Bell & unwnd for subbing in. Also your Terms of Art was an interesting read!

[Clasko]

Also, I just wanted to mention that I thought your day 1 play was really good for a PR. Being a little lurky and a little quiet (but not too much) kept you off the scum PR radar on night 1.

Once you outed your role and inno result, you had more gravitas, and could have used that to ask questions, interact and push things more, to see what broke loose.

That's something for me to think about for sure - thanks!