Newbie 2087 | Celebrating Betty White | End!

[Cape90]

Hi, haven't read much but I must say.

No way Ahri is anything but town, not with a post like 659 as a supposed newbie

[Cape90]

lol never claiming. I am town, doesn't matter what role, if I'm pr or vt, neither matters. if yall are deaset on me being maf, then vote me out, but if I were yall, I'd at least start considering what happens if I'm town

FYI this is what a VT claim looks like.

Also why was Andante hung with a post like 764 literally going into 797 and then going into 833.

This progression on Progo makes absolutely no sense unless you are town. Mafia value consistency unless there is a goal to be achieved with said inaccuracies (maybe a better way to put it is mafia like to do things with an agenda in mind). There was literally nothing to be gained by being THIS wishy-washy and inconsistent on Progo. But I digress, also yeah it is probably a pointless topic to exercise anyway.

RE: Korrina, "well I am not scoom because because..."

you see how pointless it would be for me to make up a dumb reason why I am not scum? How about I play the game and let that do the talking.

On another topic, I think Cat Scratch Fever is a decent scum candidate. 673 gives me the heeby jeebies. 699 is literally just the mafia version of what I just said, then they vote Andante a whole post later 700 for like... scummy reasons? "Oh you're not pressuring a slot which I think is scum, zoo wee mama" like be quiet scumlord, town do have many susses yes indeed, they do and can.

I really dunno what is up with the stick up that Cat Scratch is doing on 701 in regards to Ahri.
In regards to 805, maybe think for yourself? PS sounds like something I have seen scum do quite often.
I suppose to be the defense attorney for 845, I think 843 is referring to how SE's would kill another SE, but I kinda see this as a bit of a reach as I don't really see why a newbie would want to like, kill a newbie. I digress, that could be a wrong interpretation pretty easily.
I think I see where Cat Scratch is coming from in certain aspects of her game so far like in 862 but I haven't read Malcom yet.
I really don't like 890 and 894 just like. Don't likey. Not that I don't disagree but the way they put both of these posts just feel like a lazy kinda shrug off if this makes sense.

I still haven't read through plenty but I feel a little comfort in this vote.

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[Cape90]

You mean bc Malcolm basically only interacted with progo?

I thought about that but isn't new scum likely to do that?

btw CSF if you want a non-emotional read

I can see you / Korina as a scumteam

but I'm stating now that I'm

never

going to explore that as a scumteam because again, that means Andante is opentrolling as an SE, LQ tr'ed you wrong as an SE, SM is just memeing the entire game, Progo has the worst analysis possible, and Malcolm is just pure afk other than voting me

anyways after rereading Malcolm I do think I want to pursue Korina / Progo; the issue with that is idt Andante was the best lim D1 over me

Why is it that the SEs cannot have incorrect reads? I have more experience than the newbies in this game, and probably one or two of the SEs, but that doesn't make me literally perfect at the game.

and yet you say this

and the rep out makes me further think that.

Sit down

[Cape90]

Random Questions:

(1) What name should we call you by?
(2) What's your mafia experience like?
(3) What's your favourite mafia role?
(4) Have you played League of Legends, and if so, what's your favourite champion?
(5) Give me one player in this game who you think will probably be town, and one player who you think will probably be mafia (not yourself).

I guess as far as formal introductions go I could respond to this

and because I kinda just wanna procrastinate in reading such an intimidating game.

(1) Cape or Cape90, both are good.
(2) Started out with TOS in 2016, played mafia.gg since beta since 2018 (I think March?), started playing forum mafia in Summer 2021 through MU. Played a couple newbie games on here.
(3) Gimme a gun. If u gimme gun I happy.
(4) no. My favorite champion is Town.
(5) town: Somnus/Ahri mafia: Cat Scratch Fever

Oh that Somnus read?

174

I like the verdict on 298 and 371 seems like a pretty unbiased take given their suspicions on ProgoWoshua.
373 It's okay Sommus, we all think 344 is a scummy post, but as you have hopefully learned, there is a difference between a scummy post and a scum post. Pretty obvious to me, but y'know, I can see it. I digress since I have the benefit of, y'know, being here late and knowing the flip, pretty sure I would think all this if I was here at the time which is kinda frustrating and bugs me to no end.
According to 392 Sommus is clearly reading stuff. Though " I can't help shake the possibility that he's just naieve/sheeping or whatever. If we're closing in on a vote on him within the next day or 2 at the latest, I'll switch my vote to him and hope for the best." is stinky.

But yeah I do think Sommus is town from what I have seen, almost blindingly so.

[Cape90]

Sorry in advance for quote wall.

On another topic, I think Cat Scratch Fever is a decent scum candidate. 673 gives me the heeby jeebies.

Why? I was trying to talk your predecessor out of a dumbtunnel and a legit poor way of playing the game and reading players. Why is that scummy?

699 is literally just the mafia version of what I just said, then they vote Andante a whole post later

I was trying to understand Andante's read progression here. Either way, your reasoning here is basically just "well this post could come from mafia", but it could also just come from town?

700 for like... scummy reasons? "Oh you're not pressuring a slot which I think is scum, zoo wee mama" like be quiet scumlord, town do have many susses yes indeed, they do and can.

The context here:
1. Korina's slot was empty (looking for replacement)
2. Andante voted Korina's empty slot (before he rep'd in) to "pressure" that slot when a replacement was found.
3. As soon as Korina replaced in, Andante moved her vote off of Korina. Like ??? where was all of Andante's desire to pressure Korina?
--> That's why Andante's vote progression made no sense at all to me there.

I think you completely misunderstood the context here.

I really dunno what is up with the stick up that Cat Scratch is doing on 701 in regards to Ahri.
In regards to 805, maybe think for yourself? PS sounds like something I have seen scum do quite often.

I can see how you may think this, but

Have I not demonstrated that I can think for myself elsewhere in the game? I just wanted LQ's opinion on this one thing, who I was townreading, since I like to work with my townreads. Incidentally, I think it's good townplay to work with your townreads anyway.

I really don't like 890 and 894 just like. Don't likey. Not that I don't disagree but the way they put both of these posts just feel like a lazy kinda shrug off if this makes sense.

No... again this is like the worst possible interpretation of these posts. The reality is that the thread tension was very high between two slots that I thought were scum, and there needed to be some respite from all of that tension.

1.

All 3 of us can't be scum xd

Redirecting to this because I no likey, feels like a mafia snarkiness that I usually don't see from town.

2. Let's revisit 693 eh? Now your 699 completely ignores context. Andante says: "but I tr progo over ahri soooo" in 693, now I want to point out that t

hat phrase literally doesn't imply they tr progo but it implies they just want to push Ahri over Progo

. You misread this message as an inconsistency, which I agree that they have been inconsistent, but this isn't one of the posts that they have felt inconsistent in. If you want a good example of them being inconsitent, lok at my post as your post completely ignores what Andante is saying there in the first place. Other then all that, I feel like it is put in a way where I see mafia could easily say all that because it is

easy

to say.

3. Okay sure I completely misunderstood the context. Cool. However, "As soon as Korina replaced in, Andante moved her vote off of Korina." For the record, this is completely normal behavior check out what Doki does with HK's slot that I subbed into by the following day. https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -deadlines
IMO replacement slots should be treated like a blank slate and what I find unusual behavior in regards to this is literally 921. I have my eye on Korina.

4. Eh, I guess I don't disagree here. I don't love the idea of "I think it's good townplay to work with your townreads anyway." which I only partially agree with, or more of something I just kinda do for granted and don't really think to hard about it in that way. The whole "I wish LQ was here " felt performative to me though.

5. I am kinda prone to scumreading stuff like "okay guys calm down" (I just see scum do this a lot and town not so much) and about 894 felt a bit generalized and maybe a little TMI?

[Cape90]

2. Let's revisit 693 eh? Now your 699 completely ignores context. Andante says: "but I tr progo over ahri soooo" in 693, now I want to point out that that phrase literally doesn't imply they tr progo but it implies they just want to push Ahri over Progo. You misread this message as an inconsistency, which I agree that they have been inconsistent, but this isn't one of the posts that they have felt inconsistent in. If you want a good example of them being inconsitent, lok at my post as your post completely ignores what Andante is saying there in the first place. Other then all that, I feel like it is put in a way where I see mafia could easily say all that because it is easy to say.

On this topic I also interpreted the inconsistencies as towny and have said this in great detail already, but somehow you came to the conclusion that it was scummy

[Cape90]

I think Cape has read the game? Unless you think he dropped a scumcase on like the first ISO he didn't like

nope. I literally have 0 thoughts on Malcolm/Progo/Pale Ale Dog

as far as Korina, not sure, I kinda have the feeling they are town but also I know Pale said things

[Cape90]

The way I see it, both Ahri and LicketyQuickety are the stars of Day 1. I think Ahri is trying way too hard to get on everyone's good terms, while LQ is doing the exact opposite, defending his position against everyone he disagrees with. In short, they're both drawing attention to themselves.

Would scum really try to draw attention to themselves this early in the game? This is literally my first game on the site, so I don't quite know where the meta is right now. But without other information, I'm giving a townlean to both of them.

I'd largely agree with this take. Certainly feels unlikely both would be mafia if they're both drawing attention to the other, so will be one guaranteed townie in there. So far LQ's style especially strikes me a bit more as a forensic townie looking at things from a more analytical POV.

forensic townie xD

if we vote LQ today and they flip scum this player is getting speed voted out of D2 no questions asked

I'll wait for more votes but I'd put this player at a 3/10 for now

Alright so I was reading through Malcolm but before I get to my thoughts about him...

No, just no. What am I reading?

[Cape90]

as soon as Korina replaced in. So in my mind, her actions betrayed what she said she wanted to do.

I guess the thing that I am struggling wrapping my head around with is why Andante would do this as scum unless both Andante and Korina are both mafia together. Again I have a bias anyway when it comes to this anyways so maybe I just had to be there.

[Cape90]

Is this in regard to what Ahri said or what Progo said? ^

if we vote LQ today and they flip scum this player is getting speed voted out of D2 no questions asked

most specifically to this

[Cape90]

These two are extremely town. They're the ones pushing the scumhunt forward. If it turns out one or both of them are mafia, I'll be extremely surprised and impressed.

I don't think there's enough to be heavily suspicious of them yet (as is the case with anyone in the first round of voting) but I don't think this is particularly a guarantee of them being town at all. In a quieter game I think it'd make sense for at least one mafia to try and drive the townies in a direction that suits them and become seen as an authority who can be trusted. Especially if they get rid of someone who's either quiet or who we don't have much of a read on. It genuinely could just be townies working hard to find scum but far from guaranteed.

This is quite the abrasive read. I disagree with it as those 2 are pretty obvious choices for the towniest two in that time of the game, the beginning.

From a personal POV just unluckily often been available at points where the game has been quiet so far, hopefully more active in days to come.

From past experience playing - it matters more on the player re lurkers. If someone is usually very involved or fairly quiet as a townie but suddenly switches it up then it can be a decent sign something is up, whether they're mafia or have a main role. But obviously playing in the dark with it being my first time.

As I mentioned on a previous page, it's just generally too early for anyone to be able to confidently identify someone as mafia barring some major slip-up. Patterns will only start to become obvious once we're voting I reckon.

A whole lotta nothing here parading around as content.

Can't figure out if Ahri's approach is just kinda being chaotic and having fun (as they suggested initially), or a mafia getting more heavily involved to try and steer the direction of the townies. Like I said, risky move, but can be effective if you manage to eliminate a couple of townies without generating much suspicion.

Not a bad

theory

as I could put it. It just seems like, a bit surface level of a read that you could make on any number of early townleaders that you could make, you know.

Progo is by all accounts a new player (as they've started), any inconsistencies being pointed out could quite easily be related to that

. Not getting enough of a vibe to start a bandwagon yet. Quite frankly some players are a lot more confidence than anyone realistically should be at this point in the game, unless they're just trying to tactically draw out errors.

So anyway, any reason why this isn't mafia?

-Malcolm talks about Progo a lot

I kinda like Malcom's insistence that mafia is Ahri in 689 and 758 and especially 916

I think Malcom has been a bit rigid with their worldview, wouldn't be opposed to a vote on Malcolm but there is the Ahri thing making me think they could easily be town.

[Cape90]

as soon as Korina replaced in. So in my mind, her actions betrayed what she said she wanted to do.

I guess the thing that I am struggling wrapping my head around with is why Andante would do this as scum unless both Andante and Korina are both mafia together. Again I have a bias anyway when it comes to this anyways so maybe I just had to be there.

Andante flipped town, so what does that mean?

I was talking about the logic that Cat Scratch was presenting me with at the time. Even from where they were sitting with Andante still alive.

I think Cape has read the game? Unless you think he dropped a scumcase on like the first ISO he didn't like

nope. I literally have 0 thoughts on Malcolm/Progo/Pale Ale Dog

as far as Korina, not sure, I kinda have the feeling they are town but also I know Pale said things

Normally, I get called scum when people read me. Why do you think I’m town?

I feel like 703 and 706 slightly contradict the I guess what I would say

the thought process I would expect mafia to have

, at least in regards to handling Progo and Ahri.
"The other point I get to with it is that none of the SEs are scum, but that doesn’t feel like it’s the correct answer, so I’m ignoring it." Is a pretty goofy statement IMO from 753 which also contains a bold statement about Progo not being scum just based on how Ahri has interacted with the slot.
I wish I knew what 880 was referring to in regards to something Ahri did.

[Cape90]

Hello again -

I saw that Cat Scratch Fever found Ahri didn't mention a scum game they played - but she also didn't accuse her of anything, just asked for a response? I get townie vibes for this

, as I could see scum making a bigger thing of that possibly? I don't think it proves much at all regarding Ari herself, but it does show CSF's been investigating. The rest seem quite light hearted and maybe just getting eased into the game. I've seen this in previous games. Lickety coming over as serious and confident. And there you go, my first ever investigative post - Sherlock would be jealous /s

lolwut

[Cape90]

I don't even want to interact with StrangeMatter

here's the deal: we're limming in {Korina, me} today and if you're not confident in Korina being mafia we're limming me and going directly to lylo

because we aren't winning this game if StrangeMatter is in lylo and I'm still alive

I don’t agree to that deal at all, and I think that’s honestly a really shitty idea. I can’t explain why since I’m at work for another two hours, but I can quickly answer a few other posts:
1) I thought Andante was scum, and her posting was scummy.
2) If you’re gonna say it was me who decided to kill LQ, I can’t. I haven’t even read the game so far because I got hit with two 12-hr shifts back to back, and have had little energy since.

references

o
yea that does look like some towny thunderdome stuff

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: Cat Scratch Fever. I thought through it, and I really doubt that she's mafia.

What led you to this conclusion?

Before, you posted:

(2) two games on this site, both town, as well as some fast-paced chat mafia and irl games

Rereading this, you actually have a completed scumgame on this site

?

Here, you're exposing an inconsistency in what Ahri said that may suggest she's hiding something. This doesn't look like attempted bussing, so I doubt you're both mafia. So there's only three possibilities:

(1) You're town and Ahri is mafia. She tried to hide her experience as mafia in the last game and you pointed that out.

(2) You're mafia and Ahri is town. She made a mistake and you exploited it to draw suspicion on her.

(3) You're both town. She made a mistake and you pointed that out.

I just think (3) is the most probable.

The thing that gets my interest here is that you have copied my post 72 - you've put it better than me of course, but it's exactly the same info/opinion I stated quite a bit earlier. So that got me thinking that you didn't read my post, or you did and copied my opinion as an easy way to explain to Cat, or of course you thought it was a genius piece of deduction on my part, and thought "You know what, that Pale Dog knows his stuff!" - which is unlikely!

hey Cape read more b4 posting

[Cape90]

I did read it. Cat asked me to explain my reasoning, so I put it up with my own words. But I do respect you for saying it first.

I guess I'm not a genius though

Anyway, thanks for being the 1st person to speak to me so far.

loltown

Pale Ale Dog has been prodded.

I hear you, I'm working right now but will say top of my head though I stand by my TR's for Lickety and CSF, not understanding the accusations against them tbh, Tucker, not done anything of note yet apart from copy/agree with Progo's post that was actually just agreeing with my post? [153, 86, 73]. I have read up to date, but I need to read few times b4 I get a gist of things better and that is where I'm at [I hate these text walls!]. Ahri is making it difficult with these multi quote multi colour posts but I appreciate that isn't her problem, but hardly accessible for some. I also think they are probably town, but it is exhausting to go through their posts. Someone possibly Arhi or Somnus said my posts were more null than town

and I agree with that

- not sure why others jumped to me being town, looking back on it, it was not exactly ground breaking investigations! Anyway, I've posted every day in GMT since the game started so not sure why I got prodded?

loltown

[cut]

These are the relevants posts PAD made imo but honestly they're all just a bit boring to read imo, no offense ;-;

I don't know if it's because I'm jaded or whatever, but it seems null across the board, I agree with their TR on CSF, their TR on LQ is viable given they've made logical decision this game but again I have bad vibes from him

anyways 5/10 bc null

Can't say I'm offended -

they were quite boring and hardly ground-breaking

. I still have an itch about both Progo and Malcolm T using my post to make town reads on me - as well as CSF of course, though she's town for me anyway. [CSF, I know you will probably say why but your posts are just very investigative and you put pressure on the players you are asking - I know you probably disagree with me but I think LicketyQ is in the same bracket].

less so but still
loltown.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I should take a break from catching up if my brain has reduced to this style of posting lol. Korina slot is more likely town then not, stay mad haters

[Cape90]

why is 135 loltown?

I feel like mafia wouldn't just randomly thank a random person for interaction with their slot. It's a little bit too "look at me" for what I would expect mafia to act in an interaction with another town. I would singlehandedly rule out Progo/Korina team just based on this quote. But I feel like 133 demonstrates that better (a bit of context for this is put in 72)

[Cape90]

In post 692, ProgoWoshua wrote:

About Ahri:

Okay, Ahri's behavior is troubling. It seems that she thinks there's absolutely no way I'm not mafia. It could be that's she's mafia and is lying, but that would mean she's intentionally hyping up a wagon that she knows will flip town. I don't think there's a reason for mafia to do that.

So for now, UNVOTE: Ahri. I'm not completely crossing off the possibility she's mafia, it just doesn't seem very likely right now.

I don't really see how that makes someone less likely to be scum? Scum have to push wagons somehow, and acting like they're town through the "I'm so confident in this read" type thing tends to work in my experience.

In post 694, ProgoWoshua wrote:
In post 693, Andante wrote:

this is what I'm talking about.. like, if effort = town. then I'm maf. but I tr progo over ahri soooo

VOTE: Ahri

My argument has nothing to do with effort. The mafia knows that I'm town and acting the way she's acting towards me makes no sense for someone who knows that I'm town.

I don't *really* like this, even though the logic makes some sense in my mind. I don't know the context since I haven't read back the game yet, and just woke up, but in a vacuum I don't like this.

For some reason I was interpreting this in my head as Korina shading Progo, when no, it's just Korina continuing on the suspicion they laid out on Ahri.

[Cape90]

(1) Progo is my scum partner, and I want to protect them.

If you believe this case, first of all, you should be voting Progo, and not me

Not necessarily, because someone could think that you are scummier then Proto.

(2) Progo is town, and I want to gain his trust.

In this case, there is an obvious defense: I already had Progo’s trust.

you know you don't have it now, or at least in the stage of the game you are posting this in yeah?

Lastly, I’ve been tr’ing Somnus and Cat Scratch Fever,

and trying my best to make them locktown

This should never be a goal that you have if you are town.

[Cape90]

ProgoWoshua

- Start is a bit NAI as it's a bit off topic and stuff. 61 I am going go have to disagree with on a fundamental level, but sure Ahri and Lickety were both towny in that beginning I suppose..
So Progo votes Andante in 69 then as soon as Andante comes in with 70 Progo literally gets off Andante for ??? in 71 and gets on Cat Scratch in the same post. Then gets off Cat Scratch in 81, just a post later for them. I do this as town pretty often so +points.

The read on 82 of at least one of Cat and Ahri being town virtually means nothing, but is later explained in 86. So I guess it just means Cat/Ahri aren't w/w and Progo think they are likely T/T.

Progo is defensive in early game, but not in a scummy way, they just kinda are. I think the observations made on 131 are mildly town, however, this caught me a lil off guard "

I think Ahri is trying way too hard to get on everyone's good terms

". Like this sounds like a scum read on Ahri. However I also see the argument that it means they are drawing attention to themselves in early game, but it is worded in a way where it makes it look like Ahri is mafia. y'know?

Progo, why are you saying 263 right after 228 where you called Sommus like, you top town?
I agree with 268 on a fundamental level (at least day 1) and think people worry about E-1 too much, like yeah, it should be mentioned when it happens, but it isn't really that big of a deal, like we just confront the hammerer (keeping in mind, yes I know town can hammer too).
Ahri 293 is laughably NAI for the record, if you are townleading with this mindset, could you make room?
Uh 318, Progo, this doesn't address 189 and tbh, I don't think Progo really paid much mind too 72 since Progo's post is worded a lot better then Pale. And then I learned there isn't too much on the SR on Progo by Cat Scratch anyways, but I do agree they have been a bit on the sidelines so far at least.

331

The following sentences come from a player who sounds like an inno:

"What do you mean by "no more of this reactiveness"? I genuinely TR everyone who's voting for me. Should I just not respond at all?"

k but what is 335 tho? There is this 348 post that I really dunno how to feel about, like idk how fruitful the info is there in asking about that and stuff. 360 and 365 and 367 are just mech talk.

Off topic, but I hate how Ahri casually dodges tinfoiling on Andante in 386 the "controversial" player section where I have yet to see Andante actually being a controversial scum candidate.

On topic I dunno what to make of Progo's response to Ahri's 386 in 411 and honestly, it is kinda strange how Progo all of the sudden is saying that scum is one of Ahri/Lickety/Cat Scratch which all this entirely feels like inorganic "I have to make these reads literally the opposite I had them in early game" makes 0 sense other then they wanted to re-eval, but it also feels like an inorganic way to go about re-evaluating.

LMAO alright slow down Progo in 436 also I think the whole "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my reads aren't aligned with yours anymore." in 411 looks slightly unpartnered but *shrugs*, I guess.
468 is ??? 472 " If it turns out that she isn't" bro what? Could you go back to being obvtown in early game like you were or
474 Verdict: It was something, but

kinda towny

isn't one of the phrases I would use there.

About 532, like, 131

was

a thought and post from you right Progo? Though I feel like 560 is a kinda towny thought process for what kinda feels like a generalized idea? However with this thought, what about this thought 268? Where is that? You say you disagree with Cat Scratch's idea in 566 but this doesn't make too much sense with the aforementioned 268 post.

Progo, you know your scumreads shouldn't just be limited to like 3 people right :p

Cool so the bottom 2 on 692 don't really mean too much.

720
791
Finally some worldbuilding by ProtoWoshua, you love to see it. I kinda like the write up on Andante tbh. The nulls feel a bit lazy though, I think there is something to have been gained from Malcolm/PaleAle/Korina over there but eh.

792 is a cursed VC.

I really don't get the argument by Andante that is saying "oh you put me at E-1 you want me dead" like, Proto already explained why they went off Ahri anyways. Andante, they also called you a scumlean which means they think you could be scum *yells at tombstone*

Welp, time to yell at another tombstone. 827 is correct but it also implies there is one other scum outside of those 3 so meh.

VERDICT:

townlean

lock town in beginningish of the game
shaky near middle section
kinda better at EoD, where they got off Ahri felt organic at least.

[Cape90]

ProgoWoshua

- Start is a bit NAI as it's a bit off topic and stuff. 61 I am going go have to disagree with on a fundamental level, but sure Ahri and Lickety were both towny in that beginning I suppose..
So Progo votes Andante in 69 then as soon as Andante comes in with 70 Progo literally gets off Andante for ??? in 71 and gets on Cat Scratch in the same post. Then gets off Cat Scratch in 81, just a post later for them. I do this as town pretty often so +points.

The read on 82 of at least one of Cat and Ahri being town virtually means nothing, but is later explained in 86. So I guess it just means Cat/Ahri aren't w/w and Progo think they are likely T/T.

Progo is defensive in early game, but not in a scummy way, they just kinda are. I think the observations made on 131 are mildly town, however, this caught me a lil off guard "

I think Ahri is trying way too hard to get on everyone's good terms

". Like this sounds like a scum read on Ahri. However I also see the argument that it means they are drawing attention to themselves in early game, but it is worded in a way where it makes it look like Ahri is mafia. y'know?

Progo, why are you saying 263 right after 228 where you called Sommus like, you top town?
I agree with 268 on a fundamental level (at least day 1) and think people worry about E-1 too much, like yeah, it should be mentioned when it happens, but it isn't really that big of a deal, like we just confront the hammerer (keeping in mind, yes I know town can hammer too).
Ahri 293 is laughably NAI for the record, if you are townleading with this mindset, could you make room?
Uh 318, Progo, this doesn't address 189 and tbh, I don't think Progo really paid much mind too 72 since Progo's post is worded a lot better then Pale. And then I learned there isn't too much on the SR on Progo by Cat Scratch anyways, but I do agree they have been a bit on the sidelines so far at least.

331

The following sentences come from a player who sounds like an inno:

"What do you mean by "no more of this reactiveness"? I genuinely TR everyone who's voting for me. Should I just not respond at all?"

k but what is 335 tho? There is this 348 post that I really dunno how to feel about, like idk how fruitful the info is there in asking about that and stuff. 360 and 365 and 367 are just mech talk.

Off topic, but I hate how Ahri casually dodges tinfoiling on Andante in 386 the "controversial" player section where I have yet to see Andante actually being a controversial scum candidate.

On topic I dunno what to make of Progo's response to Ahri's 386 in 411 and honestly, it is kinda strange how Progo all of the sudden is saying that scum is one of Ahri/Lickety/Cat Scratch which all this entirely feels like inorganic "I have to make these reads literally the opposite I had them in early game" makes 0 sense other then they wanted to re-eval, but it also feels like an inorganic way to go about re-evaluating.

LMAO alright slow down Progo in 436 also I think the whole "I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my reads aren't aligned with yours anymore." in 411 looks slightly unpartnered but *shrugs*, I guess.
468 is ??? 472 " If it turns out that she isn't" bro what? Could you go back to being obvtown in early game like you were or
474 Verdict: It was something, but

kinda towny

isn't one of the phrases I would use there.

About 532, like, 131

was

a thought and post from you right Progo? Though I feel like 560 is a kinda towny thought process for what kinda feels like a generalized idea? However with this thought, what about this thought 268? Where is that? You say you disagree with Cat Scratch's idea in 566 but this doesn't make too much sense with the aforementioned 268 post.

Progo, you know your scumreads shouldn't just be limited to like 3 people right :p

Cool so the bottom 2 on 692 don't really mean too much.

720
791
Finally some worldbuilding by ProtoWoshua, you love to see it. I kinda like the write up on Andante tbh. The nulls feel a bit lazy though, I think there is something to have been gained from Malcolm/PaleAle/Korina over there but eh.

792 is a cursed VC.

I really don't get the argument by Andante that is saying "oh you put me at E-1 you want me dead" like, Proto already explained why they went off Ahri anyways. Andante, they also called you a scumlean which means they think you could be scum *yells at tombstone*

Welp, time to yell at another tombstone. 827 is correct but it also implies there is one other scum outside of those 3 so meh.

VERDICT:

townlean

lock town in beginningish of the game
shaky near middle section
kinda better at EoD, where they got off Ahri felt organic at least.

[Cape90]

bro I pressed submit once, how dare my laptop do this to me

[Cape90]

I know you weren't initially convinced by Ahri at all but I see no reason she can't be mafia. Her posting style is chaotic and all over the place but especially in a newbie game I see no reason that can't just be a mafia player who enjoys playing that way. And she has specifically used elements of this for arguing against being mafia - things like posting a lot, which could easily be a mafia trying to drive the town in a certain direction. In fact, I'd have if anything found it stranger if she'd started out one way and then become much more calculated due to a teammate telling her to be more restrained.

Later I will have to look into that, for now, it's kinda midnight for me so

[Cape90]

Malcolm genuinely doesn't sound bad lol

I might be interested in a Progo lim

since we have time and activity is back up again I'll start mass posting tomorrow, today's more of a reread day + working on other mafia games

Sound bad as in they don't sound like mafia

Or they don't sound like a bad push?

[Cape90]

Ahri's whole strategy has been incomprehensible at times though, she was even voting for herself at one point

Oh yeah I meant to bring this up in the Provo wall, yeah what was all this about?

[Cape90]

Cape who’s scum in your eyes?

Cat/Malcolm one of those most likely with back ups being

ProgoWoshua/you (Korina)

I would say in that order too

with Ahri apparently having a strong scum meta? But things this game have just made me wanna say they are town

With Sommus in almost no world's being mafia.

[Cape90]

I feel the need to point out that Cape has done a terrific job on such short notice, regardless of what his alignment ends up being. The SM slot was only vacant for a couple hours, and he came in, read the entire thread, posted and explored his reads. That's not easy to do, especially in a slot that I was a bit weary of at the start of Day 2 and that I know Ahri hasn't jived with this game (whether it's from scum suspicions or just personality clash, or both).

With that said, he has either come in and been a good town leader on Day 2, or he's trying and doing a pretty good job of cleaning up what I view potentially could be a mess that was left in that slot from his predecessor. If Cape had been here from the start of the game or through most of Day 1, I'd have a pretty hard town lean there. I'm kind of at a loss as far as that slot right now, because I would town-lean cape and scum-lean StrangeMatter. Obviously, both can't be correct.

Thanks. Sorry I haven't been here and doing too much as of today. I think tomorrow might see the worst of my inactivity. I kinda wanted to read through my predecessor. As soon as I looked at who I was replacing for, I was just like "I'm gonna be town aren't I". Didn't really read them deeply though lol.

[Cape90]

Progo, why are you saying 263 right after 228 where you called Sommus like, you top town?

That was a hypothetical. I didn't actually SR Somnus, I was just opposed to this whole "Shield of Protection" business.

k but what is 335 tho?

it is kinda strange how Progo all of the sudden is saying that scum is one of Ahri/Lickety/Cat Scratch which all this entirely feels like inorganic "I have to make these reads literally the opposite I had them in early game" makes 0 sense other then they wanted to re-eval, but it also feels like an inorganic way to go about re-evaluating.

Before #335, I was too scared to SR people that other players TR. From #335 onward, I decided to throw that out of the window. That's how I was able to make such a drastic re-evaluation.

However with this thought, what about this thought 268? Where is that? You say you disagree with Cat Scratch's idea in 566 but this doesn't make too much sense with the aforementioned 268 post.

Read the context for 268. My point wasn't that mafia wouldn't hammer at all, they just wouldn't hammer too early without giving the candidate time for defending themselves.

Progo, you know your scumreads shouldn't just be limited to like 3 people right :p

Yes, I know... Looking back, it was reckless to not pay attention to everyone else at all.

1. Kinda figured but I wanted to make sure.

2. So were you just townreading consensus town players for the sake of it at the beginning of the game and not actually believing it? That's what I'm confused about now.

3. I think my idea of hammering early and other people's ideas seem a bit different as I have seen people go through like a day before EoD and that is not considered early. 562 is pretty early considering like day 1 ended with like, idk 800ish posts? I know mafia can hammer votes.

4. Fair

[Cape90]

Fair enough, does feel slightly suspicious that it didn't take particularly long until you were suddenly posting fairly detailed analysis compared to how you'd played at the start, but then you have been consistently active and engaged so could be picking it up quickly.

I will remember this post

[Cape90]

I think anyone who is TRing us is by default suspicious for two reasons:
1) We have not read the game.
2) We look scummy by default when playing, so anyone TRing us tends to be informed.

We are not out of our scumrange, since our townrange and scumrange are more or less the same.

This isn't a case LMAO.
Look if I was mafia you would be a pretty easy push if you are town it ain't that deep champ.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ionship%29
Refer to this game where as town I defend this other town Illwei who really was doing themselves less favors in getting in town's good graces while I was pretty much defending the slot the whole game and boom, they ended up being town.

[Cape90]

Somnus is still town, I'll play off of the reasoning that CSF is still town

just because there's too many anti-towns if they're mafia - StrangeMatter is like Andante, they're so incredibly anti-town that surely it can't be openmafia

leaving a POE of {Korina, Malcolm, Progo}

I don't see a Malcolm / Progo with PAD town so just lim Korina

Were you on this wavelength the whole time? You were not on the Andante vote as it was going on after all

[Cape90]

Cape, are you big on reading meta?

I like to try too, but admittedly, I have to play many games with a person to fully pick up their meta

[Cape90]

i know i’m town
i think progo is town via claim
i think you’re town via play
i think somnus is town via play
i think ahri is town via play

leaving just malcolm and caps

You know Progo and Ahri made the same BV claim right?

[Cape90]

i think cape is scum solely because i think everyone else in the game is townier than sm was. cape is pretty much towning it up, but like, i don't care enough to see if this is cape's first game or not, and go through all that motion, but like, i'm really not wanting to look at the idea of somemone's deepwolfing atm

This is not my first game no. I even said this. I even linked a couple of town games from another site where I had 5000+ posts. Newbie 2084 + 2086 I played in where I was town both times over there. I really dunno what your stubbornness means really

[Cape90]

StrangeMatter's reads were bizarre

I would argue this also would go for Malcolm as well which is kinda why I was leaning Cat over him. Like is it within Malcolm's interest as mafia to push Ahri and say Ahri is scum for -undisclosed meta reasons-? I am not too terribly sure about this.
Sorry for clogging up the thread, I have just been catching up since last night on my phone where it's just easier to do this then multi quote

[Cape90]

i know i’m town
i think progo is town via claim
i think you’re town via play
i think somnus is town via play
i think ahri is town via play

leaving just malcolm and caps

You know Progo and Ahri made the same BV claim right?

Yes, but I think Progo’s claim was towniwr, and Ahri’s was not

I guess I sort of agree there, at least marginally

[Cape90]

I'm sorry if this is a newbie thought but...

Shouldn't the second Mason claim? The game is now essentially without PR, and the second Mason is now essentially a named townie. If they claim now, they could instantly be cleared of all suspicion, or set up an easy PoE of two if mafia counterclaims for some reason.

Unless said mason is getting pushed today

and

is close to getting hammered at least today, then they should claim. Maybe best for Mason claim to wait until ELO

[Cape90]

In addition to that, I don't mean to speak on behalf of Malcolm, but I think:

1.) He genuinely finds Ahri annoying and
2.)

He genuinely thinks Ahri is scum

I don't think his push is solely or even primarily personal. I disagree with his read on Ahri for now, but that doesn't mean it's invalid. I'd like to think that no one is taking accusations and votes in this game personally.

If this thought actually holds true, your vote on Malcolm contradicts this

[Cape90]

Well then, the things I miss when I leave the thread.

Progo isn't paired with Korina, I refuse to believe that both the mafia just repeated each other day 1 like that being 72 and 86

[Cape90]

I'm not sure I get the logic there in how that rules them out as partners at all. By the same notion, are we ruling out Malcolm for the exact same thing? It was such a ho-hum "Everyone can be mafia, but you're probably town lol" comment.

[cut]

These are the relevants posts PAD made imo but honestly they're all just a bit boring to read imo, no offense ;-;

I don't know if it's because I'm jaded or whatever, but it seems null across the board, I agree with their TR on CSF, their TR on LQ is viable given they've made logical decision this game but again I have bad vibes from him

anyways 5/10 bc null

Can't say I'm offended - they were quite boring and hardly ground-breaking.

I still have an itch about both Progo and Malcolm T using my post to make town reads on me

- as well as CSF of course, though she's town for me anyway. [CSF, I know you will probably say why but your posts are just very investigative and you put pressure on the players you are asking - I know you probably disagree with me but I think LicketyQ is in the same bracket].

[/quote]
I would say this is a false equivalency to what I was getting at but okay

[Cape90]

you know what could be funny, if Korina's bad "well Cape, you are just POE" push actually came from me and them being w/w

Spoiler: Defense for why I am obv not paired with Korina

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

I think Cape should at least have a chance to read the thread first. I extended the same courtesy to both StrangeMatter and yourself.

I’d rather at least be up front that I think the slot is scum, so that might usher some hasty reads from scum, which can be picked up on for lies, or getting a townie to actually town in the slot

Oh and on the subject of interactions I have had with Korina, check this out

You mean bc Malcolm basically only interacted with progo?

I thought about that but isn't new scum likely to do that?

btw CSF if you want a non-emotional read

I can see you / Korina as a scumteam

but I'm stating now that I'm

never

going to explore that as a scumteam because again, that means Andante is opentrolling as an SE, LQ tr'ed you wrong as an SE, SM is just memeing the entire game, Progo has the worst analysis possible, and Malcolm is just pure afk other than voting me

anyways after rereading Malcolm I do think I want to pursue Korina / Progo; the issue with that is idt Andante was the best lim D1 over me

Why is it that the SEs cannot have incorrect reads? I have more experience than the newbies in this game, and probably one or two of the SEs, but that doesn't make me literally perfect at the game.

and yet you say this

and the rep out makes me further think that.

Sit down

These two statements are not contradictory from my POV. They might be from yours, but they are not from mine.
If that’s not what you’re pointing out, I have no idea what the fuck the point of saying thisbis

Malcom's POV in shambles.

I think Cape has read the game? Unless you think he dropped a scumcase on like the first ISO he didn't like

nope. I literally have 0 thoughts on Malcolm/Progo/Pale Ale Dog

as far as Korina, not sure, I kinda have the feeling they are town but also I know Pale said things

Normally, I get called scum when people read me. Why do you think I’m town?

Additionally, a portion of Cape’s catchup is related to PAD, our predecessor, so we have no interest in interacting with those posts, since what PAD said is of no relevance to what we are doing.

Oh Oh and get this.

I think anyone who is TRing us is by default suspicious for two reasons:
1) We have not read the game.
2) We look scummy by default when playing, so anyone TRing us tends to be informed.

We are not out of our scumrange, since our townrange and scumrange are more or less the same.

This isn't a case LMAO.
Look if I was mafia you would be a pretty easy push if you are town it ain't that deep champ.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ionship%29
Refer to this game where as town I defend this other town Illwei who really was doing themselves less favors in getting in town's good graces while I was pretty much defending the slot the whole game and boom, they ended up being town.

when in every game i've played on this account for the most part - i have been scumread for simply playing the game, it really makes anyone who trs us stand out, and leads me to believe they are indeed scum trying to pocket.
i agree, i'd be an easy push if you were scum,

but i also think id' be an even easier pocket

if you were scum

like LMAO

because if cape flips town here it means someone in those four is deepwolfing and i *really* can’t be bothered to try to sort which one is deepwolfing because god finding someone deepwolfing is super hard

Anyway, that's quite enough of that. There is a POE of 4 people right now and I really am not quite sure who it could be, it really could just be Malcolm since 1222 has a sickening amount of certainty that would actually make this game auto if true and I find it a bit jumping the gun FMPOV.

[Cape90]

you know what could be funny, if Korina's bad "well Cape, you are just POE" push actually came from me and them being w/w

Spoiler: Defense for why I am obv not paired with Korina

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

I think Cape should at least have a chance to read the thread first. I extended the same courtesy to both StrangeMatter and yourself.

I’d rather at least be up front that I think the slot is scum, so that might usher some hasty reads from scum, which can be picked up on for lies, or getting a townie to actually town in the slot

Oh and on the subject of interactions I have had with Korina, check this out

You mean bc Malcolm basically only interacted with progo?

I thought about that but isn't new scum likely to do that?

btw CSF if you want a non-emotional read

I can see you / Korina as a scumteam

but I'm stating now that I'm

never

going to explore that as a scumteam because again, that means Andante is opentrolling as an SE, LQ tr'ed you wrong as an SE, SM is just memeing the entire game, Progo has the worst analysis possible, and Malcolm is just pure afk other than voting me

anyways after rereading Malcolm I do think I want to pursue Korina / Progo; the issue with that is idt Andante was the best lim D1 over me

Why is it that the SEs cannot have incorrect reads? I have more experience than the newbies in this game, and probably one or two of the SEs, but that doesn't make me literally perfect at the game.

and yet you say this

and the rep out makes me further think that.

Sit down

These two statements are not contradictory from my POV. They might be from yours, but they are not from mine.
If that’s not what you’re pointing out, I have no idea what the fuck the point of saying thisbis

Malcom's POV in shambles.

I think Cape has read the game? Unless you think he dropped a scumcase on like the first ISO he didn't like

nope. I literally have 0 thoughts on Malcolm/Progo/Pale Ale Dog

as far as Korina, not sure, I kinda have the feeling they are town but also I know Pale said things

Normally, I get called scum when people read me. Why do you think I’m town?

Additionally, a portion of Cape’s catchup is related to PAD, our predecessor, so we have no interest in interacting with those posts, since what PAD said is of no relevance to what we are doing.

Oh Oh and get this.

I think anyone who is TRing us is by default suspicious for two reasons:
1) We have not read the game.
2) We look scummy by default when playing, so anyone TRing us tends to be informed.

We are not out of our scumrange, since our townrange and scumrange are more or less the same.

This isn't a case LMAO.
Look if I was mafia you would be a pretty easy push if you are town it ain't that deep champ.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ionship%29
Refer to this game where as town I defend this other town Illwei who really was doing themselves less favors in getting in town's good graces while I was pretty much defending the slot the whole game and boom, they ended up being town.

when in every game i've played on this account for the most part - i have been scumread for simply playing the game, it really makes anyone who trs us stand out, and leads me to believe they are indeed scum trying to pocket.
i agree, i'd be an easy push if you were scum,

but i also think id' be an even easier pocket

if you were scum

like LMAO

because if cape flips town here it means someone in those four is deepwolfing and i *really* can’t be bothered to try to sort which one is deepwolfing because god finding someone deepwolfing is super hard

Anyway, that's quite enough of that. There is a POE of 4 people right now and I really am not quite sure who it could be, it really could just be Malcolm since 1222 has a sickening amount of certainty that would actually make this game auto if true and I find it a bit jumping the gun FMPOV.

RE: 1222
Cape what? Slow down

If you're going on my theory that we have one mafia who went on first vote bandwagon and another who stayed off

, that'd leave Korina in a team with either myself or Cape

Read the first part, Malcolm isn't saying that the team

has

to be me or him

[Cape90]

you know what could be funny, if Korina's bad "well Cape, you are just POE" push actually came from me and them being w/w

Spoiler: Defense for why I am obv not paired with Korina

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

Hi, please convince me you’re not scum, because via poe, I think your slot is scum, and the rep out makes me further think that.

I think Cape should at least have a chance to read the thread first. I extended the same courtesy to both StrangeMatter and yourself.

I’d rather at least be up front that I think the slot is scum, so that might usher some hasty reads from scum, which can be picked up on for lies, or getting a townie to actually town in the slot

Oh and on the subject of interactions I have had with Korina, check this out

You mean bc Malcolm basically only interacted with progo?

I thought about that but isn't new scum likely to do that?

btw CSF if you want a non-emotional read

I can see you / Korina as a scumteam

but I'm stating now that I'm

never

going to explore that as a scumteam because again, that means Andante is opentrolling as an SE, LQ tr'ed you wrong as an SE, SM is just memeing the entire game, Progo has the worst analysis possible, and Malcolm is just pure afk other than voting me

anyways after rereading Malcolm I do think I want to pursue Korina / Progo; the issue with that is idt Andante was the best lim D1 over me

Why is it that the SEs cannot have incorrect reads? I have more experience than the newbies in this game, and probably one or two of the SEs, but that doesn't make me literally perfect at the game.

and yet you say this

and the rep out makes me further think that.

Sit down

These two statements are not contradictory from my POV. They might be from yours, but they are not from mine.
If that’s not what you’re pointing out, I have no idea what the fuck the point of saying thisbis

Malcom's POV in shambles.

I think Cape has read the game? Unless you think he dropped a scumcase on like the first ISO he didn't like

nope. I literally have 0 thoughts on Malcolm/Progo/Pale Ale Dog

as far as Korina, not sure, I kinda have the feeling they are town but also I know Pale said things

Normally, I get called scum when people read me. Why do you think I’m town?

Additionally, a portion of Cape’s catchup is related to PAD, our predecessor, so we have no interest in interacting with those posts, since what PAD said is of no relevance to what we are doing.

Oh Oh and get this.

I think anyone who is TRing us is by default suspicious for two reasons:
1) We have not read the game.
2) We look scummy by default when playing, so anyone TRing us tends to be informed.

We are not out of our scumrange, since our townrange and scumrange are more or less the same.

This isn't a case LMAO.
Look if I was mafia you would be a pretty easy push if you are town it ain't that deep champ.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ionship%29
Refer to this game where as town I defend this other town Illwei who really was doing themselves less favors in getting in town's good graces while I was pretty much defending the slot the whole game and boom, they ended up being town.

when in every game i've played on this account for the most part - i have been scumread for simply playing the game, it really makes anyone who trs us stand out, and leads me to believe they are indeed scum trying to pocket.
i agree, i'd be an easy push if you were scum,

but i also think id' be an even easier pocket

if you were scum

like LMAO

because if cape flips town here it means someone in those four is deepwolfing and i *really* can’t be bothered to try to sort which one is deepwolfing because god finding someone deepwolfing is super hard

Anyway, that's quite enough of that. There is a POE of 4 people right now and I really am not quite sure who it could be, it really could just be Malcolm since 1222 has a sickening amount of certainty that would actually make this game auto if true and I find it a bit jumping the gun FMPOV.

Poe of 4

when im openly spewed town and somnus is consensus town

good one

I'm not going to discount any of you LMAO

[Cape90]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua

go next

Why me?

bc ur maf

and im in too many games so this one needs to finish so I can play more

I know you've more or less checked out of this game, unfortunately, but I'm hoping you can at least provide details on your stance here.

Getting the impression Ahri has basically stopped playing and doesn't have a proper stance, just picking Progo because why not. Complicates things for the town a bit.

Either way, Progo

should

do something more today then what they have done

[Cape90]

uh

[Cape90]

that's not what i meant

[Cape90]

who is the last mafia progo?

[Cape90]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua

go next

VOTE: ProgoWoshua

go next

Why me?

Okay I don't see mafia actually making this play today

[Cape90]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua

go next

Why me?

bc ur maf

and im in too many games so this one needs to finish so I can play more

meant to quote this instead of the why me thing

[Cape90]

If you're scum, Korina is likely going to have a bone to pick with you post-game. If you're town and you helped give the game to scum by doing this, myself and 5 other people are going to have a bone to pick with you post-game. Even if you somehow flip town, I can't say I would have blamed Cape for quick-hammering you there. Same goes to Malcolm if he had been around during that. If ever there was a reason to quick-hammer someone, I'd say open-claiming mafia is right up there near the top of the list.

I mean I vibe with everything in this post here, did you expect anything you said to be disagreeable Sommus?

But as for why I didn't hammer that, well, I was just confused by whatever play Progo was going for whether that would have been trying to bait mafia into hammering you or just claiming wolf because you believe you can't win in this gamestate, idk the motivation at play and the first one is flawed since I feel like a towny could have quite easily hammered there and understandably so.

[Cape90]

I would find it funny if both mafia have been just antagonizing me the whole game like Korina and Malcolm. As for Malcolm, I mean there is his POV today and lets note 1195. Also I would like to point out that Korina was pretty much on the same page as Malcolm as they were with me, look at 1068 for instance. This is before you get to the part where Malcolm gets voted over me by Korina despite saying more things about me 1133.

I suppose a counterargument to where Malcolm could be mafia is 918 where Malcolm looks especially paired with Korina.
Though I would say Malcolm said a similarish post on Progo, sort of not really in 346.

[Cape90]

Well, if I actually go over as a mislunch, I just want Progo to know that I don't think he should be going after Ahri in final 3 as the motivation they presented is pretty far from a scum motivation that I would expect mafia to have today at all, like the motif just doesn't fit in. Life kinda hit me all at once so, I would have loved to be more active today but yeah

[Cape90]

Well, if I actually go over as a mislunch, I just want Progo to know that I don't think he should be going after Ahri in final 3 as the motivation they presented is pretty far from a scum motivation that I would expect mafia to have today at all, like the motif just doesn't fit in. Life kinda hit me all at once so, I would have loved to be more active today but yeah

In other words, final 3, I would vote the other person unless Ahri just puts a vote on you before

[Cape90]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars

Eliminate (Lim) All Liars is a longstanding mantra in the mafiascum.net community. Quite simply, most Townies have no reason to lie about their actions, motivations, or roles. Many newish Townies will attempt to lie in attempts to gambit, and fail miserably by hurting the Town in the process.

These lies can be indistinguishable from deliberate scum gambits, and leaving them unpunished reinforces the behavior as a viable option for scum.

For example, Vanilla Townies who try to roleclaim Doctor in an attempt to draw the Mafia's Night-kill tend to cause the real Doctor to counterclaim them, thus definitely causing the Mafia to target them. In addition to this, scum have been known to deliberately fakeclaim Doctor with the express purpose of drawing a counterclaim for this reason. The elimination of the Vanilla Townie is then justified.

Generally, gambits are not successful. If they were, they would probably be on this wiki or otherwise public knowledge. Thus, rather than wind up on the receiving end of Eliminate All Liars, it is best not to try to gambit unless you fully understand the implications of your actions. This comes primarily with experience.

Eliminate All Liars is also why scum should not wantonly gamble with the Town's patience as well.

Meh. I dunno if I fully endorse this school of thinking. I think it is situational

[Cape90]

idk

vibes

Might agree. But I honestly kinda just think it's Progo though their line of thinking is a bit convoluted

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

[Cape90]

I really don't have a lot of voting options here

[Cape90]

You know, looking back again, I think Malcolm was trying to in bad faith push me. Basically this whole time, kind of like Korina, which when Korina was pushing Malcolm, it was obviously never gonna go through, they did this to distance I can bet.

Malcolm gives this pretty weak case on why me/Korina are a mafia team in 1223 and then just doubles down on it in 1280 with no given consideration to 1225.

Not to even mention that yes, while Malcolm did suspect this, there is also Malcolm saying just a day earlier, pretty deep into day 2 1187 which did the opposite of age like fine wine, it more aged like spoiled milk. Well I would guess it is becasue of the claims, but as a towny, they should just solve it before E-1 for sure and in a 2 scum game, I think going for a 50/50 is big value. Quick thinking about that for more then a second will reveal that that was the right play. Oh and he brings up this aforementioned Ahri suspicion that... was literally never touched on today.

Oh and get this in 1139, "I'm not really getting why Korina would be voting for me at this stage if we were a team" now this excerpt here is a little on the nose yeah?

I have mentioned before that Korina built up a stronger scumcase on me then proceeded to vote Malcolm over me yeah? Well I think I have finally found the reasoning, it was staring me right in the face.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

1 vote til elim, discuss

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

Okay but the key here is that Ahri isn't even voting you and yet you still hold on to the belief that in a final 3 situation, you will get voted by them in final 3

[Cape90]

This is precisely what I disagree with. Ideally, we would have two shots, but if Ahri is going to vote for me in ELo regardless of what happens in the game, then we only have one shot. Because if we mis-lim and this game goes into ELo with both me and Ahri, the Town would just lose.

why would the town lose here, I really don't understand Ahri is literally not voting you anymore

I was explaining my thought process at the start of the Day.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Somnus what in the world are you googling here

Okay but the key here is that Ahri isn't even voting you and yet you still hold on to the belief that in a final 3 situation, you will get voted by them in final 3

Oh, oh I see
I'm sorry if I made things unclear. In post #1283, I explained what my thought process was at the beginning of the Day. At the beginning of the Day, Ahri did vote for me.

[Cape90]

casually giving Progo hammer with the apparent incentive to kill Progo should probably say a lot about Malcolm. Malcolm expressed no concern about this whatsoever after all.

Progo's actions have ranged from pretty towny to donwright confusing.

Malcolm has played a more straightforward game that is honestly more meh inducing then whatever Progo has been doing, like I can have strong opinions on Progo but not exactly Malcolm though I do feel like Malcolm's actions are actions I would expect to see from a mafia. I mean, just look at 1293. What I see here is oppurtunism, Malcolm wants to win and the best path to victory for mafia Malcolm is to push Progo instead of me because that is where the threadstate is at right now. Oh and about that second part "I'm not particularly sure what I've even done to particularly indicate leaning mafia other than accuse a couple of people here." Oh come on now, could it really be more transparent, I do get the feeling of not knowing why you are being suspected, happens somewhat often to me, however it is pretty clear that I provided something in regards to that, a reason, a whole case. And I think Malcolm has just been disengaged with all of this and kinda is autopiloting right now.

Now anyway, if Malcolm could receive the hammer treatment, that would be really cool.

[Cape90]

I've outlined my reasons for changing my vote from you to Progo quite clearly, I reckon there's a better chance you'll be mafia but it seems unlikely you'll be eliminated this turn. Progo strikes me as the next best option at this point and as Somnus has outlined above some posts have been incredibly suspect. If we eliminate Progo and the game isn't over I'd absolutely be on you next unless we get any good evidence it's Somnus or Ahri somehow.

yeah but like, you handed the hammer to Progo, they are likely not going to hammer themselves

[Cape90]

I've outlined my reasons for changing my vote from you to Progo quite clearly, I reckon there's a better chance you'll be mafia but it seems unlikely you'll be eliminated this turn. Progo strikes me as the next best option at this point and as Somnus has outlined above some posts have been incredibly suspect. If we eliminate Progo and the game isn't over I'd absolutely be on you next unless we get any good evidence it's Somnus or Ahri somehow.

yeah but like, you handed the hammer to Progo, they are likely not going to hammer themselves

[Cape90]

Cape90: Major props for jumping in on such short notice on Day 2 and reading through the entire thread. I went back and forth on whether to Night Kill you or Ahri. I'm not sure how much it would have mattered, but I literally spent hours over the last couple nights out for long walks going through every possible scenario. I originally was considering no-kill, but figured the group would likely vote no-lim on Day 4 anyway.

it was probably good because there was a good chance I was voting you over progo. Or at least 50/50 of me doing so since neither of Ahri or Progo seemed like they had strong scum motivations behind their actions that final 5. I would also probably question you not dying.

You really killed it though, it would have been a really hard decision that I am glad I didn't have to make

gg mafia played well