Newbie 2126: Art [Game Over]

[Alianna]

aAAAAAAAAaaaAaaAAaaAaaAaAAaaaaaaAAaaaaAAaaAaaaAaaAAaAaAAaAAaaaAaaAaaaaaAAaaAa!!!

[Alianna]

Hey guys

VOTE: Alianna

Hi!

VOTE: overseer

[Alianna]

@TheHoldSteady and areebot - please consider getting an avatar/pfp. It makes it easier to differentiate your posts.

[Alianna]

VOTE: alianna

I feel like I’m supposed to ask about this vote.

[Alianna]

VOTE: alianna

I feel like I’m supposed to ask about this vote.

Why

The timing of it. Voting for me right after I posted. That gives me the feeling that skitter had a reason to vote specifically me, as opposed to it being purely random. I can only guess the lack of explanation was meant to provoke questions and discussion.
Or maybe it wasn’t and I’m just pulling theories out of thin air, but that’s kind of what we’re supposed to do in the early game anyway.
I really don’t see anything wrong with me asking people to get avatars though.

[Alianna]

I was kind of hoping someone would comment on the OMGUS nature of my vote lol.
I realize the game is a bit dead and we’re still in RVS. That’s why I said I felt like I was supposed to react.

[Alianna]

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

true VOTE: political clout

I like this. I don't have a read on it per se, but I like it.

[Alianna]

Well that's unlikely to come from scum

Why so? I realize PC isn't me, but I've done similar stuff as both alignments. I'd be interested in your reasoning though.

[Alianna]

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

Quoting you for the notification. Any thoughts yet on...well, anything?

[Alianna]

Ughhhh.
Game slow.
Reads difficult.
Ali caveman apparently.

[Alianna]

Okay, maybe I'll ask some questions.

The one thing I've noticed so far is that one of Alianna or Skitter might be townie. Their interactions together out of the gate would be pretty bold if they were on the same scum team.

And while it's theoretically possible that both scum have been inactive, I have a gut feeling that that would be wishful thinking

I think two inactive scum is well within the realm of possibility, especially if both are new and unsure of how to play.
Let's say your theory is true though. Who do you consider active? Of those players, which one do you think is most likely to be scum or least likely to be town?

Well that's unlikely to come from scum

Why so? I realize PC isn't me, but I've done similar stuff as both alignments. I'd be interested in your reasoning though.

Maybe i'm wrong but generally i feel like posts like that are less likely to come from scum, it feels a little too brazen to vote for themself

It's five to lynch

and there's several days left. I'd like to believe that it's too brazen but I feel like it'd be safe enough for a scum to jokingly vote themselves

Or are you saying that voting yourself something that is typically read as suspicious, and that he'd be unlikely to draw attention to himself? What's brazen about it?

Sorry, I don't really have anything to say, but I wanted to check in.

Read the first two pages, what do you think of what's been said so far? Does anything stand out to you as a town or scum move?

"Lynch" is banned on this site, we say "eliminate" or "execute" instead.

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

[Alianna]

Don't see what you two are seeing. Looks like a random vote to me.

On himself?

Because the vote was on himself, you think it wasn't RVS?

I think you guys are defining "random" differently.
A self-vote is a little unusual and comes across as deliberate whether it's done as a joke or not. It's RVS for sure, but I get why someone would say it's not purely random.

[Alianna]

I'll take this pagetop!

[Alianna]

"Lynch" is banned on this site, we say "eliminate" or "execute" instead.

My apologies, I'll try not to use that word anymore

Let's say your theory is true though. Who do you consider active? Of those players, which one do you think is most likely to be scum or least likely to be town?

For activity, I'm just going off of content and post count. You, me, and Skitter to have been the most active so far. Overseer and Merelyn have been slightly less active than us, but still decently so. Radical Poloroid, political clout, and Arko have barely posted. There's been nothing from areebot.

I think it's just my luck that at least one person who's been active is scum, but at the same time

I don't think activity and content in and of itself is a good measure for scum reads, because it's an inevitability that not every townie is going to play the game well.

So you have to combine activity and content with scum MO. Rereading a bit, I could read Merilyn's post as her trying to quickly set the execution towards an inactive townie since those would be easy targets. But I want to see more posts from Merilyn and see what else develops before I hold on too hard to that read

Okay, this seems like a fair and reasonable answer. I can see some town thought process in the re-reading of the posts, coming up with a theory to answer the question, but not holding on too hard to a theory that isn't too strong.
Not that it's impossible to do that as scum, I just find it more likely to come from town, especially from new town.

I 100% agree with this and think it's worth highlighting.

[Alianna]

Okay, this seems like a fair and reasonable answer. I can see some town thought process in the re-reading of the posts, coming up with a theory to answer the question, but not holding on too hard to a theory that isn't too strong.
Not that it's impossible to do that as scum, I just find it more likely to come from town, especially from new town.

I 100% agree with this and think it's worth highlighting.

I kind of lean town on this too, but I'm hesitant to give them a new player pass because the use of the 'L-word' implies they're just new to the site, but not to mafia.

...good point.
*contemplates throwing Merlyn in the townbin*

@TheHoldSteady - what's your mafia experience like?

[Alianna]

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

Alianna is a perfect example why I don't read into alignment for a self vote- I've seen her do it twice as town and get heat for both times. I think the only meaning is that the player doing it is bold, but I don't read what alignment they are for it

Irrelevant, but which two games was this? I remember that happening in Newbie 2120, and I also self-voted later on in Micro 1080, but I didn't take any heat for that one that I recall.

[Alianna]

I just find it more likely to come from town, especially from new town.

Why from new town? Is there something about my approach here that you think sounds in experienced...?

No, I was basing it off your join date and the possibility of experience on other sites slipped my mind.
With that said, my thought process was that a scum playing their first game might have some difficulty faking town thought process, and their response might sound less genuine or less reasonable.

[Alianna]

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

Alianna is a perfect example why I don't read into alignment for a self vote- I've seen her do it twice as town and get heat for both times. I think the only meaning is that the player doing it is bold, but I don't read what alignment they are for it

Irrelevant, but which two games was this? I remember that happening in Newbie 2120, and I also self-voted later on in Micro 1080, but I didn't take any heat for that one that I recall.

I was thinking of 2120 and the newbie you subbed into, Terrieresque (my first game).

I didn't vote myself in Terrieresque. The heat I took there was for being on the fence and apparently because "not having confidence or having doubts looks bad." Yes, I am still a bit salty over it lol.

[Alianna]

overseer's posting, I think, is fine so far. One question though.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

Why did you say that? That statement defeats the purpose of your questioning, since a hypothetical scum!skitter now knows what you are looking for and can make an effort to hide her TMI.

[Alianna]

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

What do you think is important to the game right now? What should people be focusing on instead?

[Alianna]

This will be a short post because I'm on mobile and won't be back on my laptop until tomorrow

I'm town reading Alliana because I think we both share a similar approach to figuring things out and that's a pretty good sign of town as any for me

I will likely give the replacement the benefit of the doubt if they get here before the day ends because there would be more to go off tomorrow

Still slightly leaning scum on Merilyn, but that's mostly a gut read. She's responding but not making deeper probes, if that makes sense

I could go either way with Skitter at this point

Wish political clout and Arko would participate more, but they could go either way

That leaves Polaroid and Overseer. It seems like Overseer is genuinely probing but is more aggressive and tunnel visioned about it. I feel like all of his posts so far have been responding to Polaroid's response or the thing with Skitter.

One thing I wanted to ask was is it safe to assume me Polaroid and Overseer aren't a scum team together? Seems very risky and odd to come in after very little activity and push on your partner who nobody was suspecting.

@Radical Polaroid say you're right and Overseer is scum. Who do you see as his partner?

Typically, the deadline gets frozen near EoD to make sure we get a replacement and allow them time to catch up.
Speaking of deadlines,

@Aisa - you made the day deadline three days too short. It's meant to be 10 days on D1 of a newbie.

I'm neutral on a lot of people too. Just not much to go off yet this game.

Probably? I know I for sure wouldn't do that as scum.
That's something to look back on later in ELo or if one of them flips red. Partner hunting on D1 isn't advisable because of the lack of information and the sheer amount of possible scumteams.

[Alianna]

Skitter30 - I have played with skitter before, and she was pretty good, I feel she was very stingy with her vote and explored all angles, even when we had a basically confirmed scum. This time her questions to me just feel shallow. Her vote on me comes off as opportunistic on a case that is very weak. I'm suspicious of her town read on political clout as well.

yeah ok so :

- we have less than 100 posts still. at this stage, any vote/read i make isn't going to be based on anything super strong, i'm using the limited information i have to try to make progress

So, here's the thing. I'm thinking the same way you are.

And yet, Polaroid came out in their first substantial post and was like, "yeah, this person is scum". Overseer thinks he has this game figured out while I still have no clue.

What do you all think of that difference in confidence levels?

It means some people are quicker to form reads than others, and that some of us are probably wrong. I don't think this inherently says much abt anyone's alignment

And also that people have playstyles that they try and make consistent across both scum and town games. Some people come off as extremely confident (or wacky or rude or whatever) regardless of alignment.

+1 to both of those.

[Alianna]

I haven't had much time for this game today and I'm too tired to look at that 1v1 properly, so I'll make a bad meta read instead.
Last time I played with skitter in a game that was kind of slow like this one, she was scum. I'm seeing a couple of differences in her play here vs. there (looking at the first 6 pages because that's where we are in this game).
Specifically:
- first of all, she's just more active and involved here, which aligns with her view that being active and advancing the game is a towny thing to do
- second, I'm seeing more elaboration here. In the scumgame, she did a lot of "I like this, I don't like that, I think this is town, getting bad vibes from X." Here, she's talking more about why she reads people the way she does and giving explanations for her actions.
Town vibes.
And now I'm going to bed. I'll post more tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Did a combined ISO of skitter/overseer/Radical, this is my thought dump. I'm putting most of the specific reasoning and comments on individual posts into spoilers to avoid bloating the thread and making it unreadable.

Spoiler: Wallpost

Everything up to post 62 looks fine on both sides so not too much to say there. Just looks like both players are trying to come to an understanding.

This exchange is where it gets a bit interesting.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'd still like Radical to address my question about this. Why was overseer's questioning not important and what is important?

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

I don't think having a townread off of one post is TMI, since a "townread" can be strong or weak and we have to make do with what little we have in the early game. I do see how overseer could think this about skitter, though, since her wording ("unlikely to come from scum", "I just have a hard time seeing scum do that") wasn't clear on the strength of the TR and I do see how it appears stronger than might be reasonable.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

This response by overseer is solid.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

None of the responses to my statements, or your original posts have been towny.

Again, what you "consider" important is part of the reason I believe you aren't an innocent. You say I'm incorrect because you believe its important, but the irony is that you believing that is my entire point.

...what does this even mean?

87 and 88 from skitter are both pretty reasonable things to say.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

Oooooh i like this
Esp. since i had similar thoughts abt overseer there

VOTE: overseer

This, I'm noting because it conjured up a tinfoil theory in my head. I thought it was a little interesting that skitter only started scumreading/voting overseer after Radical made her (rather sketchy) accusation. Technically, there's a world where Radical/overseer are both town and skitter is scum, and skitter saw that as an opportunity to start a wagon on overseer, thinking she'd have support. I don't have a good reason to think we actually live in that world though. It was just a thought that came to me.

overseer's posting, I think, is fine so far. One question though.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

Why did you say that? That statement defeats the purpose of your questioning, since a hypothetical scum!skitter now knows what you are looking for and can make an effort to hide her TMI.

I felt the need to out my intention there as it is more beneficial to me to try and investigate the radical polaroid push on me. She accused me of not trying to solve, so I have to explain why she is wrong by outing the motivations behind my skitter questioning.

I realized I never actually followed up on this, but fair enough.

The rest of it seems to be mostly about the TMI thing, which looks to me like a misunderstanding that got way overblown, and the tag teaming thing, which I don't really get.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

Can you explain how:
- it's unlikely we're a team
- we're tagteaming

At the same time? To me it looks like you're arguing that at once we're not teamed, but we're parterning to push you, which doesnt make sense to me to think at the same time

- It's unlikely, because of how obvious it would join you two, like you and political clout said.

- I said it LOOKS like you're tag teaming. I didn't say I am 100% sure you are the team and ARE tag teaming.

So again, like you and political clout said, it is unlikely you're the pair right? Why? Because it looked like you're working together!!!! So AGAIN, me pointing out that you look like a team with the cohesion and timing is also noted by you and political clout. I'm just the one who openly stated that you look like a team, with your point about why you CANNOT be a team, you are literally proving that you do actually look like a team and I'm not trying to shade by saying you look like a team.

It's a little odd to say this...

Let me guess your partner radical polaroid is gonna go on about how I'm aimlessly forcing or talking about this tmi angle that's not important but it's actually you that set up the trap. Makes sense now.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven. Also this looks like a tag team effort on me.

The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

...after saying this, which does imply overseer thinks they're a scumteam. I could believe it if he said he changed his mind after realizing it would be too obvious though.

skitter's posts are overall pretty good, I don't take issue with much there.

I think it's unlikely that more than one person in this group of 3 is scum. skitter/Radical is too blatant, I highly doubt skitter/overseer is SvS, and as for overseer/Radical, I just don't see the point in doing what they did for the reasons TheHoldSteady mentioned in 84.
Radical has some explaining to do, so I think I'd like to vote there. I also think that her being scummy makes it more likely that skitter/overseer is TvT.

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

[Alianna]

I like the post that Alianna made, I think she's made some good points. I don't want to vote Radical rn until I know if the slot is getting replaced, but I think the reasoning for the vote is good.

Something I couldn't discern from your post, Alianna, is where you came down on overseer?

If I had to decide, I'd say town. I can see a genuine thought process behind their posts and they haven't done anything that strikes me as especially scummy. The associatives I mentioned are also part of it.

[Alianna]

I think it's unlikely that more than one person in this group of 3 is scum. skitter/Radical is too blatant, I highly doubt skitter/overseer is SvS, and as for overseer/Radical, I just don't see the point in doing what they did for the reasons TheHoldSteady mentioned in 84.
Radical has some explaining to do, so I think I'd like to vote there. I also think that her being scummy makes it more likely that skitter/overseer is TvT.

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

So if you think skitter/Radical is too good to be true, do you have an idea of who their scum partner is?

Or are you just pushing to get stuff out of them?

I'm not sure who the other scum is yet (and for that matter, I'm not even 100% convinced it's Radical). I'd have to ISO some people. I'm not trying to or expecting to have the game solved on D1 though, so it's not likely that I will come out of that with a clear stance on the team.

My vote is a vote for execution. It's not pressure for the sake of pressure if that's what you're asking.

This post makes it out like I either have an idea of who Radical's partner is or I'm just pushing her to get stuff out of her. I don't think the answer has to be one of those two. Did you phrase it like that intentionally?

[Alianna]

And say Polaroid did "pull reads out of thin air". The question is, why do that as scum? Why completely make up a scumread about a town player on page three? What purpose does that serve?

That could be scum trying to look like they have opinions (which I suppose could also be accomplished by TRing people) or to make a townie look bad. "Get townies executed" is a pretty big part of the scum wincon. I suppose one could argue that a scum might go about that in a more subtle way, but I'm definitely not going to rule out scum!Radical based on that.

[Alianna]

Did a combined ISO of skitter/overseer/Radical, this is my thought dump. I'm putting most of the specific reasoning and comments on individual posts into spoilers to avoid bloating the thread and making it unreadable.

Spoiler: Wallpost

Everything up to post 62 looks fine on both sides so not too much to say there. Just looks like both players are trying to come to an understanding.

This exchange is where it gets a bit interesting.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'd still like Radical to address my question about this. Why was overseer's questioning not important and what is important?

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

I don't think having a townread off of one post is TMI, since a "townread" can be strong or weak and we have to make do with what little we have in the early game. I do see how overseer could think this about skitter, though, since her wording ("unlikely to come from scum", "I just have a hard time seeing scum do that") wasn't clear on the strength of the TR and I do see how it appears stronger than might be reasonable.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

This response by overseer is solid.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

None of the responses to my statements, or your original posts have been towny.

Again, what you "consider" important is part of the reason I believe you aren't an innocent. You say I'm incorrect because you believe its important, but the irony is that you believing that is my entire point.

...what does this even mean?

87 and 88 from skitter are both pretty reasonable things to say.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

Oooooh i like this
Esp. since i had similar thoughts abt overseer there

VOTE: overseer

This, I'm noting because it conjured up a tinfoil theory in my head. I thought it was a little interesting that skitter only started scumreading/voting overseer after Radical made her (rather sketchy) accusation. Technically, there's a world where Radical/overseer are both town and skitter is scum, and skitter saw that as an opportunity to start a wagon on overseer, thinking she'd have support. I don't have a good reason to think we actually live in that world though. It was just a thought that came to me.

overseer's posting, I think, is fine so far. One question though.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

Why did you say that? That statement defeats the purpose of your questioning, since a hypothetical scum!skitter now knows what you are looking for and can make an effort to hide her TMI.

I felt the need to out my intention there as it is more beneficial to me to try and investigate the radical polaroid push on me. She accused me of not trying to solve, so I have to explain why she is wrong by outing the motivations behind my skitter questioning.

I realized I never actually followed up on this, but fair enough.

The rest of it seems to be mostly about the TMI thing, which looks to me like a misunderstanding that got way overblown, and the tag teaming thing, which I don't really get.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

Can you explain how:
- it's unlikely we're a team
- we're tagteaming

At the same time? To me it looks like you're arguing that at once we're not teamed, but we're parterning to push you, which doesnt make sense to me to think at the same time

- It's unlikely, because of how obvious it would join you two, like you and political clout said.

- I said it LOOKS like you're tag teaming. I didn't say I am 100% sure you are the team and ARE tag teaming.

So again, like you and political clout said, it is unlikely you're the pair right? Why? Because it looked like you're working together!!!! So AGAIN, me pointing out that you look like a team with the cohesion and timing is also noted by you and political clout. I'm just the one who openly stated that you look like a team, with your point about why you CANNOT be a team, you are literally proving that you do actually look like a team and I'm not trying to shade by saying you look like a team.

It's a little odd to say this...

Let me guess your partner radical polaroid is gonna go on about how I'm aimlessly forcing or talking about this tmi angle that's not important but it's actually you that set up the trap. Makes sense now.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven. Also this looks like a tag team effort on me.

The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

...after saying this, which does imply overseer thinks they're a scumteam. I could believe it if he said he changed his mind after realizing it would be too obvious though.

skitter's posts are overall pretty good, I don't take issue with much there.

I think it's unlikely that more than one person in this group of 3 is scum. skitter/Radical is too blatant, I highly doubt skitter/overseer is SvS, and as for overseer/Radical, I just don't see the point in doing what they did for the reasons TheHoldSteady mentioned in 84.
Radical has some explaining to do, so I think I'd like to vote there. I also think that her being scummy makes it more likely that skitter/overseer is TvT.

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

I have nothing to say to you. Go read my posts.

I have read your posts, and they have left me with questions and with a scumread on you. Is this you saying that you'd like me to go through them again? Is there something that you think I've missed or misunderstood?

Polaroid, I sense genuine frustration in those last two posts and I get it- it can be really hard to interact with people who are questioning you. Mafia stays fun for me when I remember I'm in a game where it's a fact that people are lying (and sometimes I'm one of them lol), so of course people have to question what I'm saying.

+1 to this.
Also, my reads are not set in stone by any means. I am willing to re-evaluate my read on you, that's just difficult to do when I'm not getting anything new to work with.

[Alianna]

I feel p good calling political town
I still like my overseer vote

I'm currently neutral on PC. Is this read just based off the self-vote or are there other things making you townread them?

[Alianna]

ok so read like nothing but something, almost voted someone but no

guess ppl can sell their wagons idk so far it's been a fairly hard read game by feels.

Who'd you almost vote?

[Alianna]

This is not that important but I'm just gonna say something bc I see it's spreading- my name is merlyn, not merilyn

You're telling me it's not Marilyn? Lies.

[Alianna]

Spoiler:

@political clout
given that you agree that it's 'highly unlikely' that me and radical are out to get overseer in a nefarious plot teamed together

what do u think this means abt overseer that he thinks this is what's happening

pedit you're the one acting like i declared him to be the strongest townread of all time. you're kinda taking the strength of the read all out of proportion and then calling me scum for having it so ...

are you just posting to post? that's something scum might do. what exactly are you trying to ask? if I think he's scum? or something else because it is not clear what you mean when you say what do I think it means about overseer. I posted that I have no idea what it means about his alignment and that it is weird. gun to my head I would call him town if i had to.

Ok so immediately yall looked into the selfvote a lot more than needed; I self voted a LONG TIME back into 2 games where I was both townie.

Also looking at the fight between political and overseer made me think overseer was towny, as well as skitter and overseer's banter too. Neither of those felt like 2 townies just not understanding each other, so that's my main read right now.

never talked to overseer are you just skimming the thread? that's something scum would do. who are you getting me confused with?

I have skimmed everything so far. my vote was 100% serious and I need more votes actually thank you. alternatively everything I just said was fake I read everything twice and am completely uninterested and I am currently lurking in this thread.

alianna is town, theholdsteady is town, skitter and overseer might be town v town, I'm town. merlyn might be scum.

What are your thoughts on me and putting you at E-2? (albeit you are voting yourself)

that you're not reading the thread.

@alianna i think that the vibe of these posts are unlikely to come from scum
the self-voting thing is unlikely
the kinda rude responses also feel unlikely to come from scum - scum tries to make friends and ingratiate themselves and try to get people to like them. beign annoying and rude is not a great scum tactic

I can see this now that you explain it.

[Alianna]

Just because it's possible to get reads on the first few pages doesn't necessarily mean that there will be much in those pages that a given player views as AI. Some players are just quicker to form reads than others too.

[Alianna]

ok so read like nothing but something, almost voted someone but no

guess ppl can sell their wagons idk so far it's been a fairly hard read game by feels.

Who'd you almost vote?

To milk your curiosity for all it's worth, guess two names and I'll tell you if one's right.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[Alianna]

And pagetop mine.

[Alianna]

ok so read like nothing but something, almost voted someone but no

guess ppl can sell their wagons idk so far it's been a fairly hard read game by feels.

Who'd you almost vote?

To milk your curiosity for all it's worth, guess two names and I'll tell you if one's right.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Ok, I asked ChatGPT who had the most suspicious usernames and it told me Radical Polaroid and Political Clout. So I'll guess those two.

[Alianna]

We've got about 2 and a half days left on the deadline. We should probably start thinking about consolidating. In a game like this one, I imagine that agreeing on a wagon and getting a claim might take a while, and I think it's overall better for town if we aren't in a deadline scramble.
My preferred wagon is still Radical, for the following reasons:
This, from the wall I posted earlier.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

I dislike Aliana's content the more they post.

Though steady and merlyn have continued with good stuff

I'd ask for explanations of all these reads, but I honestly doubt I'd get an answer (feel free to prove me wrong on that though).
This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable. There's little actual thought process there to get an actual read off of. I guess the overseer read was already explained, and there's a bit about me (coincidentally the two people who scumread you), but it's still not much. Like, why am I scummier than I was before?
That and the seeming unwillingness to cooperate with the town and to answer questions (and it's not just mine) don't sit well with me.

[Alianna]

I feel a little uneasy about how convinced I am of a scumread this early. I think I might have a case of the tunnel vision.

[Alianna]

Ok did an iso thing of skitter overseer and radpolar and wow it was a bit vagueish, sort o too much too fully read kinda almost headache haze kinda thing. like. Overseer probably town there. idk still looking at the other two i guess. really wanna hear from overseer.

VOTE: No Elimination

idk feels like a low vibe bad trend day and while me not having fully read yet isn't fixing that I sort of want to avoid elim and let mech play be stronger rather than face a potential scenario where we are running up our power roles on flash wagons.

Let’s not do this D1. The most likely result of this is that we get on evens, we have to no-execute again in MeLo to get back on odds, and overall we lose an execution and the mafia gains a kill. We can’t bank on PRs winning the game for us.

[Alianna]

@Alianna, is it only RP you'll vote for? I'm not against the lim I think but I just want to know where your headspace is at

No, I’ll switch if someone makes a good case for another wagon or if we’re near deadline. Exactly who else I’d potentially vote for, I’m not sure yet.

[Alianna]

@Alianna, is it only RP you'll vote for? I'm not against the lim I think but I just want to know where your headspace is at

No, I’ll switch if someone makes a good case for another wagon or if we’re near deadline. Exactly who else I’d potentially vote for, I’m not sure yet.

Then tell me what you think about my case for Merilyn and be completely honest because if you really think I'm wrong here then maybe I'll change

I'm not hard-townreading her or anything.
I'm just not convinced by the whole "you're experienced, you have X number of posts, you should be finding more to analyze" thing. I've seen town players with more experience than Merlyn contribute less or analyze less on the first four pages.

Just because it's possible to get reads on the first few pages doesn't necessarily mean that there will be much in those pages that a given player views as AI. Some players are just quicker to form reads than others too.

But the way she keeps saying it makes it sound like she's saying "it's not possible" not "I couldn't" because she played the "I'm experienced" card

i just feel like I'm being gaslighted here

eh?? You were were the one who brought up experience, I was responding to you about it

I said I townread you and I'm not voting, what the hell would I be gaslighting about?

I feel like everything I try to say to you is warped into things I wasn't saying at all in an attempt to make me feel like I'm stupid or something

I said "you're experienced enough to know you can find things to discuss on the first four pages." Then you twisted it to say "I'm experienced enough to know there's nothing that can be discussed on the first four pages" which I blatantly know is not true

I didn't say anything about your read on me. What would that have to do with it

From experience with Merlyn, I don't think she's the type of player to do this even if she is scum.

I don't really see where the twisting is. That statement didn't make it out like you said something you didn't say, it was just disagreeing with you. She also said "not much" and not "nothing," so her being able to post insightfully about a couple of things doesn't contradict her statement. I'm not reading too much into her using the same wording of "I'm experienced enough." I don't really think it means anything.

I might have had something else I was going to say, but I forgot. If there's anything you think I haven't addressed, let me know.

[Alianna]

Just noting that I have read Radical's post and I am going to take some time to figure out how I want to respond to it.

[Alianna]

UNVOTE: Merlyn

I was leaning neutral scum on Polaroid but I don't think the sudden scumread making any sense. It sounds like an OMGUS

I don't quite understand what you mean here. Are you saying Polaroid moved up or down in your reads?

[Alianna]

UNVOTE: Merlyn

I was leaning neutral scum on Polaroid but I don't think the sudden scumread making any sense. It sounds like an OMGUS

I don't quite understand what you mean here. Are you saying Polaroid moved up or down in your reads?

I mean I was neutral before, closer to leaning scum than town, but now I'm closer to reading her as potentially being scum

Spoiler:

@political clout
given that you agree that it's 'highly unlikely' that me and radical are out to get overseer in a nefarious plot teamed together

what do u think this means abt overseer that he thinks this is what's happening

pedit you're the one acting like i declared him to be the strongest townread of all time. you're kinda taking the strength of the read all out of proportion and then calling me scum for having it so ...

are you just posting to post? that's something scum might do. what exactly are you trying to ask? if I think he's scum? or something else because it is not clear what you mean when you say what do I think it means about overseer. I posted that I have no idea what it means about his alignment and that it is weird. gun to my head I would call him town if i had to.

Ok so immediately yall looked into the selfvote a lot more than needed; I self voted a LONG TIME back into 2 games where I was both townie.

Also looking at the fight between political and overseer made me think overseer was towny, as well as skitter and overseer's banter too. Neither of those felt like 2 townies just not understanding each other, so that's my main read right now.

never talked to overseer are you just skimming the thread? that's something scum would do. who are you getting me confused with?

I have skimmed everything so far. my vote was 100% serious and I need more votes actually thank you. alternatively everything I just said was fake I read everything twice and am completely uninterested and I am currently lurking in this thread.

alianna is town, theholdsteady is town, skitter and overseer might be town v town, I'm town. merlyn might be scum.

What are your thoughts on me and putting you at E-2? (albeit you are voting yourself)

that you're not reading the thread.

@alianna i think that the vibe of these posts are unlikely to come from scum
the self-voting thing is unlikely
the kinda rude responses also feel unlikely to come from scum - scum tries to make friends and ingratiate themselves and try to get people to like them. beign annoying and rude is not a great scum tactic

This isn't always true. I've seen scum be "annoying and rude" before

Even if you don't think that's optimal not every scum is going to play optimally. Some might be fearful of being eliminated day one which causes the aggressive, annoyed, rude response

How have you felt about Alianna throughout the game?

I think Alianna has done more to drive this game forward for town than anyone else, making active and meaningful contributions throughout all the phases of the day

For transparency's sake, I should probably say that this (as in the game-advancement and high-contributor playstyle) is a strategy I'd be at least tempted to try as scum. Whether I would execute it as well or in the same way, I'm not sure, as I'm not actually in that position and don't have much scum experience to inform me.

[Alianna]

None of the quotes there are actually quoting me. I don't think it's meant to be word-for-word, she just means I scumread her.

[Alianna]

We've got about 2 and a half days left on the deadline. We should probably start thinking about consolidating. In a game like this one, I imagine that agreeing on a wagon and getting a claim might take a while, and I think it's overall better for town if we aren't in a deadline scramble.
My preferred wagon is still Radical, for the following reasons:
This, from the wall I posted earlier.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

I dislike Aliana's content the more they post.

Though steady and merlyn have continued with good stuff

I'd ask for explanations of all these reads, but I honestly doubt I'd get an answer (feel free to prove me wrong on that though).
This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable. There's little actual thought process there to get an actual read off of. I guess the overseer read was already explained, and there's a bit about me (coincidentally the two people who scumread you), but it's still not much. Like, why am I scummier than I was before?
That and the seeming unwillingness to cooperate with the town and to answer questions (and it's not just mine) don't sit well with me.

This is the kinds of shit I hate having to respond to. People are so unaware of when they setup an entire biased perspective and then go "you need to respond now"

"You gave no information, and all you said was this or that" Which is false, but then you setup an entire discussion this way.

I said earlier that you give spectator reads, and they don't come off as innocent to me. It's

a lot of reacting to what others are doing

, and

responding while backreading instead of actively engaging with new content.

Now YOUR ONLY "original" thought is to call the person who isn't being town read by anyone "evil"

Then when I say I don't like your content this game, the response you have is a defensive take calling me evil.

You show me where I should find you innocent, then maybe we can start having a real discussion.

I didn't actually say this. I said there was little thought process given, but not none, and I acknowledged that in the post. I did not, at any point, say that it was all "this or that."

Reacting to what others are doing is the entire game. Every serious read that a player makes is based on something else that has happened in the game and therefore is a reaction to something else in the game. I don't understand how I'm supposed to play the game without doing "a lot of reacting to what others are doing," unless you mean I should lurk, which, given your scumread of Arko, I'm guessing you don't.

1. I can't be here 24/7, so backreading is necessary to understand and address things that happen while I'm not here.
2. Sometimes, it takes me a while to process other players' posts and work out exactly what my thoughts are about them.

First of all, this isn't actually true. In terms of actual reads, there's my meta read on skitter in 141. I'm pretty sure I was the first person to definitively express a townread of her. And even when my reads are shared by others, they are not all lacking in original reasons.
Second, reads don't all need to be original. This is a team game, and at the end of the day, a majority of us need to come together and agree on the same person. If every one of us is pushing our own "original" theory, that's difficult to do. So I don't mind going along with other people's reads if I think they're good reads.

I was scumreading you before you ever said anything about me. The first time you addressed me or mentioned me in this thread was in 170, which was after I made my vote on you and actually a response to it. Sure, I responded to the posts where you said you scumread me and I continued to scumread you, but that's exactly it. My read of you was already there. I don't think you can argue in good faith that my take on you was a response to your take on me. In fact, I could apply the same logic to you and say that once I voted you and made it clear you were my top scumread, you defensively tried to discredit me and make me look bad by making up some reasons to call me evil.

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this, but it's up to you how you want to read me and if you want to engage with me. I can't make you townread me, and I also can't make you see the value in having discussions with your scumreads.

[Alianna]

Does anyone townread Radical or believe that she should not be today's vote? I'd like to hear why if you do.

[Alianna]

I still think there's at least one scum in Steady/Merlyn/PC/camel/Eira, so I should probably be thinking about who that is.

[Alianna]

I still think there's at least one scum in Steady/Merlyn/PC/camel/Eira, so I should probably be thinking about who that is.

I don't agree with writing off Skitter or Overseer / Overseer's replacement

Sorry, that was unclear. I'm not writing off those two. I think it's highly unlikely that both scum are in skitter/overseer/Radical (reasoning for that is...somewhere in my ISO), so logically, I'm assuming at least one is in the other group.

[Alianna]

I still think there's at least one scum in Steady/Merlyn/PC/camel/Eira, so I should probably be thinking about who that is.

I don't agree with writing off Skitter or Overseer / Overseer's replacement

Sorry, that was unclear. I'm not writing off those two. I think it's highly unlikely that both scum are in skitter/overseer/Radical (reasoning for that is...somewhere in my ISO), so logically, I'm assuming at least one is in the other group.

But what if its skitter or Overseer and not Radical

It could be. I'm not 100% sure it's her, or even close to that really. I'm voting Radical because I feel I have a stronger reason to vote her than anyone else here.
I could still be convinced on someone else. That's why I ask if anyone townreads Radical, in case there's a case for town!her that I'm not seeing.

[Alianna]

I guess I scumread Radical to a point but I'm not convinced Skitter can't be a team with her

I know in your ISO you said that team is "too blatant" and I guess you have a point that scum isn't likely to vote together out of the gate

Then there's still the question of why scum Polaroid would tunnel a townie Overseer right out of the gate

You can shrug and say "bad play" but then it makes it equally as likely that Polaroid would make another "bad play" by not effectively distancing

Does that make sense

The lack of effective distancing would actually be on skitter's side as well, since she's the one who jumped onto Polaroid's scumread with that overseer vote. She's a player with a lot of experience, so I'm holding her to a higher standard.

[Alianna]

I did not, at any point, say that it was all "this or that."

This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable

You don't think this was close enough to be what she meant?

The rest of your post is good points about how to play mafia though.

"All" is the key word there.

[Alianna]

I did not, at any point, say that it was all "this or that."

This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable

You don't think this was close enough to be what she meant?

The rest of your post is good points about how to play mafia though.

"All" is the key word there.

whoo boy, Alianna, that is some mighty fine hair splitting.

Might be, but I think it makes more sense in the context of the post.

[Alianna]

I kind of want to townread those last couple of posts, but idk.
I still don't get where the flaws are in my thought process and I think someone else will have to explain it to me.

[Alianna]

Does anyone townread Radical or believe that she should not be today's vote? I'd like to hear why if you do.

I read your case, and I don't know why it leads the conclusion that Radical is scum over town making so newbie mistakes.

It's essentially:
Radical shaded Overseer. This is true from my perspective, but that's NAI for sure.
Radical says things she thinks sometimes without sharing why she thinks them. You and I both know that there's tons of folks on this site that do that, and they do it as town or scum.

This case was good enough reason for a Radical push imo but as a limmable, likely to be scum kind of thing? I'm not feeling it.

There's also the OMGUS and the defensiveness and the misrepresenting of my play (example of that: the "your only original thought" line), but maybe that's all NAI too. That's not me being sarcastic btw, I legitimately have to consider how much of this is actually AI. I might be back to the drawing board.

[Alianna]

I think I'm just going to leave this whole thing alone for a while.

UNVOTE:

[Alianna]

Hi, just here to check in. Critically thinking about this game today is probably not happening as I've eaten some poor quality chicken and now the main thing on my mind is OWWWWWWWWWWWW MY STOMACH. I might be around more later tonight and tomorrow, depending on how I feel. Should be able to cast a hammer at deadline if I need to.

[Alianna]

That VC is old, here's an updated one.

overseer (2): skitter30, Merlyn
Merlyn (1): Political Clout

Not Voting (6): Radical Polaroid, TheHoldSteady, Alianna, Eiralox, SmileyDude1, camelCasedSnivy

[Alianna]

Hi, just here to check in. Critically thinking about this game today is probably not happening as I've eaten some poor quality chicken and now the main thing on my mind is OWWWWWWWWWWWW MY STOMACH. I might be around more later tonight and tomorrow, depending on how I feel. Should be able to cast a hammer at deadline if I need to.

oh no! Pepto Bismol it up and feel better soon!

Yeah, hopefully I will. This sucks.

[Alianna]

I don't think they're exactly the same thing. Merlyn's vote wasn't made under imminent pressure of getting executed. I don't think either is scummy though.
And can we maybe not accuse people of not being people?

[Alianna]

I don't think they're exactly the same thing. Merlyn's vote wasn't made under imminent pressure of getting executed. I don't think either is scummy though.
And can we maybe not accuse people of not being people?

uh no I could have just not said anything and lived

I don't understand what this is in response to or what it's trying to say. Could you rephrase it?

[Alianna]

So I'm in a dilemma.
My stance on PC is pretty much null at the moment. There's 3 hours left on the deadline, so voting the wagon that isn't you is an understandable move regardless of alignment. I would like to know, though, @PC - who would you be voting right now if we weren't in a deadline scramble?
I liked Steady's case on Polaroid. It's interesting that they would point out how some of Polaroid's posting doesn't sound like they're talking to someone they think is scum, and I'm inclined to agree with that. I do think it depends on how certain Polaroid actually was of their read, but it's a good point nonetheless.
The problem is, I do also worry that their posting might come from genuine town frustration, and I said I'd leave the slot alone for now, and I also don't really feel like "learning a lesson about being wrong," whatever that's supposed to mean. I'm wrong a lot, I don't think one more misexecution would make me learn my lesson.
Ugh. AtE messes with my head and I never have any idea what to do with it.
Maybe we'll just go with, "I'll hammer whatever."

[Alianna]

Hmm. I was in a game with scum!PC where they were wagoned EoD1 and I don't recall them saying anything at all.
Idk if that game compares to this one though.

[Alianna]

That should be a valid vote. There's also vote tags, which look like this:

Code: Select all

[vote]Player[/vote]

[Alianna]

I will also make clear that that's E-1, meaning PC is one vote away from being executed.

[Alianna]

I don't feel very good about this, but I don't townread PC, we've got 2 hours, and I don't think I feel very good about anyone being scum right now.

I declare intent to hammer. PC, please claim.

[Alianna]

Are we getting PC's claim or...

[Alianna]

I don't feel very good about this, but I don't townread PC, we've got 2 hours, and I don't think I feel very good about anyone being scum right now.

I declare intent to hammer. PC, please claim.

PC, did you not see this? I'm beginning to wonder if you're waiting on your scumbuddy so you can agree on a claim plan.

[Alianna]

I corralled everyone into the thread wit380 with a little less than 5 hours to go before deadline and you were one of the first people to respond soon afterwards. Especially during EoD it's easy to lose track of time when you're focusing on engaging the thread so more time may have passed than I thought it had. From my perspective it felt like there were somewhere around 4 hours left when you voted.

I realize now that getting a new wagon in that time may be me engaging in wishful thinking even with a scattered gamestate. I'm still on you for now though with due to logic you can find in 320 that I feel has continued to now. Like even now when trying to get a read on your intentions you shade me as if I'm scum for looking deeper into a vote. Help me understand Political Clout

I'm not shading you at all. I think my postition has been pretty clear that your reason to call me scum is idiotic.

I'll quote you for the notification.

[Alianna]

If you saw it, why have you not claimed? You're under threat of hammer.

[Alianna]

If you saw it, why have you not claimed? You're under threat of hammer.

I'm talking to someone what's the rush you can't sit still for a while you're that hungry to kill me?

It takes longer to type out that sentence than it does to type out the name of your role.

[Alianna]

I'm calm, I'm not freaking out. I'm just trying to understand why you haven't claimed when you are at E-1 and intent. As town, it should be very simple to just claim your role there.

[Alianna]

I mean, I don't think we should hammer without a claim in case they are PR.

[Alianna]

like right now as scum if you want to fake claim and hope people shift to polaroid stretching it out can achieve that

Yeah, true.

PC, claim please or I hammer you 5 minutes from now.

[Alianna]

I'm calm, I'm not freaking out. I'm just trying to understand why you haven't claimed when you are at E-1 and intent. As town, it should be very simple to just claim your role there.

I think someone is voting me for silly reasons as soon as I say my role you're either going to hammer me or not. you're in the same state now as you would be then.

And I'll give you a notification.

[Alianna]

I mean, I don't think we should hammer without a claim in case they are PR.

see above. town pr would probably already have claimed. i'm still on my initial instinct this either vt or scum for self vote. pr wouldn't risk that, pc ain't dumb.

I guess I'm dumb then lol, I did that as Watcher once.

[Alianna]

Well, are we doing this? Are we good for me to hammer, or does anyone have anything they want to say before the day ends?

[Alianna]

Well, are we doing this? Are we good for me to hammer, or does anyone have anything they want to say before the day ends?

so you did just want to kill me got it.

I wanted to make sure you weren't PR so we didn't lose a PR?

[Alianna]

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

[Alianna]

I mean, I don't think we should hammer without a claim in case they are PR.

see above. town pr would probably already have claimed. i'm still on my initial instinct this either vt or scum for self vote. pr wouldn't risk that, pc ain't dumb.

I guess I'm dumb then lol, I did that as Watcher once.

nah i'm like a non expert so i'm sure there are very valid reasons not to claim. as vt or scum, defs.

How did it work out for you, Alianna?

No one paid attention to it, except the scum who meme-voted me and the townie who decided to ask me "and how exactly is this productive?" in a very shading way and ended up misexecuted (not just for that, though, they were also a lurker).

[Alianna]

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

hammer me and find out

are you being for real Alianna?

Am I for real? Yes. I couldn't tell if it was serious or not.
Or were you calling PC Alianna?

[Alianna]

Look. Even if he WAS town doctor, he is dead now by scum tonight. And he has prevented us from finding a replacement lim. He needs to be hammered.

The thing about that is, if we execute PC, someone townier probably dies. If we let scum kill PC, we can execute someone scummier if we consolidate.

[Alianna]

I just need to do this.

Spoiler: screaming

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Alianna]

Ok, we have 44 minutes. We have Merlyn, Steady, PC, Eiralox, Smiley, and myself online. We have the power to decide on whatever wagon we want. So now we need a plan.

[Alianna]

Ok, I didn't read the part where they reverted.

[Alianna]

Ok, we have 44 minutes. We have Merlyn, Steady, PC, Eiralox, Smiley, and myself online. We have the power to decide on whatever wagon we want. So now we need a plan.

Please just read post 367 and tell me what you think

I did. I commented on it in 414.

[Alianna]

yes you were dancing lmao and morally on your high horse trying to teach me about standard gameplay about if you're a pr you should claim. but I claimed a pr and guess what you did nothing. nothing. you flat out threw a tantrum saying if I was a doctor alianna should still vote for me your mask came off.

How did you not think about the scenario where you get CCed in 8 out of 9 setups and out a real PR?

[Alianna]

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

I played one game with scum!you in which I repped in and pretty much got insta-yeeted. I'll be honest that I don't remember much of it. Could you tell me why exactly you don't think this fits your scum meta?

[Alianna]

I have absolutely no idea what is going on here or what to do about it.

[Alianna]

What if we just yeet Polaroid and worry about the Merlyn/PC claim shenanigans on Day 2 when we have a whole week to sort it out?

[Alianna]

That's correct gameplay as scum too.

[Alianna]

Well, this will be interesting.

[Alianna]

That's correct gameplay as scum too.

that's right but have I done it as scum?

You haven't, but that doesn't mean you couldn't.

[Alianna]

So we're confirmed to be in B2 (JK/FN) unless there's a counterclaim.
Eiralox, confirm you got the message?
And you can unvote yourself.

[Alianna]

If I go by the logic I was using yesterday, there has to be one in camel/Eira/Steady, so I do see scum!camel as a likely possibility.
Still debating over Smiley.

[Alianna]

Also, whoever the JK is, there is a 50% chance that your target is scum who tried to perform the kill and a 50% chance that your target is town who was attacked.
Is it optimal for a JK to claim here?

[Alianna]

If I go by the logic I was using yesterday, there has to be one in camel/Eira/Steady, so I do see scum!camel as a likely possibility.
Still debating over Smiley.

Yeah also interesting you're not pushing skitter or radical ploaroid.

Lots of things I can use to solve here.

For your information, I don't really look at the game at night because someone's going to die anyway and whatever reads I had could shift, so no, I am not going to walk into the day with a push on anyone.

P-edit @skitter: Mostly my residual townread from overseer. One minute.

[Alianna]

VOTE: radicalpolaroid

VOTE: radicalpolaroid

Let me also say I don't like that vote, feels like a vote to survive here.

@Political Clout: Can you give more insight.

that's what it is.

Let me make sure im not misinterpreting here. I asked you about your vote on RP beacuse I was worried that your vote was a vote to survive today. You followed up saying that your vote was in fact survival-motivated.

Town should vote whoever they find scummy, Scum are inclined to vote to ensure they're survival irregardless of their read on said player.

If your vote was to survive, that's a scum-motivated vote rather than a town-motivated one

I found this to be v scummy
Three hours to deadline - it isnt scummy to vote ur counterwagon. It's survival, ans both alignments would do it, so it isn't scum-motivated

Building a push based on calling that scummy is quite scum-motivated

Mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, a lot of newer players have erroneous beliefs that "town do this and scum do that" about things that are completely NAI. On the other hand, it's very much disconnected from the gamestate in a way that I do see coming from scum.

[Alianna]

Ok so like ... political clout was indeed town, like i said

That wagon was awful
Smiley you helped egg it along in what i consider a slimy and scummy fashion

VOTE: smiley

I think the crux of the issue I was having with PC very well may have been a difference in playstyle. I felt that they lacked substance to their reads which gave me the false instinct that there was an agenda behind what they were doing. I got the feeling that they were just throwing their reads out there which didn't feel genuine to me at the time. By the time we had finished interacting by the end of the day I felt like despite not really understanding their reasoning the emotion and tone of their posts felt towny in my view. The issue here was that at this point there were less than 30 minutes left before the day ended, and I felt that moving my vote at that point could've resulted in a no-elimination. I didn't feel that it was worth risking that especially when I had pause about the other wagon for similar reasons.

VOTE: radicalpolaroid

VOTE: radicalpolaroid

Let me also say I don't like that vote, feels like a vote to survive here.

@Political Clout: Can you give more insight.

that's what it is.

Let me make sure im not misinterpreting here. I asked you about your vote on RP beacuse I was worried that your vote was a vote to survive today. You followed up saying that your vote was in fact survival-motivated.

Town should vote whoever they find scummy, Scum are inclined to vote to ensure they're survival irregardless of their read on said player.

If your vote was to survive, that's a scum-motivated vote rather than a town-motivated one

I found this to be v scummy
Three hours to deadline - it isnt scummy to vote ur counterwagon. It's survival, ans both alignments would do it, so it isn't scum-motivated

Building a push based on calling that scummy is quite scum-motivated

I've mentioned numerous times (397,402,420), that my thought at the time was that the gamestate was scattered enough for their to be more than just 2 options. I have also since acknowledged that I was wrong in this view with 431. This is my first game, I don't think it's unreasonable for a newbie to think there was more time than there actually was to make something happen. Situations like these are valuable learning experiences as to what's realistic.

TLDR; I made an unfortunate tunnel based on a playstyle disconnect and naive thinking. If you think i'm scummy for that fair, but I ask that you consider the world where i'm town who was wrong and made a mistake.

I might be in tinfoil hat territory now, but this defense almost doesn't feel natural. Maybe "overdone" is the word, like you were trying to get every detail of your story straight and create a narrative to justify your previous actions. The TL;DR especially comes across as narrative-y.

[Alianna]

also why does the title still say Day 1?

Alianna continues to be genuine scumreading so still townie to me.

I've not been reading too much into Merlyn/skitter/steady who I originally thought to be null/scumlean/town so I will read again

Still not going to vote radical yet.

Well, Merlyn's confirmed town so that's one less person we have to sort.

[Alianna]

UNVOTE:

ok yeah imma be an angler here, camel radical is a friendly neighbor.

Do you mean Merlyn?

[Alianna]

Never mind, don't know why it didn't give me a preview.

[Alianna]

Polaroid is now confirmed town as well due to her jailkeeper claim.

[Alianna]

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

It's possible scum would try to go for a strong player who isn't universally townread specifically for the purpose of avoiding protective roles. Definitely not going to clear skitter off that, though, and I don't hate the idea of voting her today.
Speaking of killing skitter, I want your input on something. Do you think Smiley would try to kill skitter for tunnelling him, or is that too obvious?

[Alianna]

Merlyn has had a very scummy response

The perspective is something I only see from someone who is evil, and thinking about the decisions they made in the night

Merlyn is mechanically confirmed to be town.

[Alianna]

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

It's possible scum would try to go for a strong player who isn't universally townread specifically for the purpose of avoiding protective roles. Definitely not going to clear skitter off that, though, and I don't hate the idea of voting her today.
Speaking of killing skitter, I want your input on something. Do you think Smiley would try to kill skitter for tunnelling him, or is that too obvious?

skitter kill could also have been made to frame Smiley. It might actually have been more informative if it went through, since we'd be able to see whose play during the day aligns with the above goal of setting up a misexecution on Smiley.
Idk why I'm even talking about this, since it didn't actually happen.
Oh, never mind, I remembered what I was talking about. I was going to say that the no-kill and JK target on skitter might clear Smiley indirectly. This is probably kind of obvious, but there are four worlds we could be in:
1.

town!Smiley

/

town!skitter

2.

town!Smiley

/

scum!skitter

3.

scum!Smiley

/

town!skitter

4.

scum!Smiley

/

scum!skitter

I feel pretty confident to rule out world #4 based on the overseer/skitter 1v1 earlier (if that was all scum theatre then well played). What I'm currently debating is whether world #3 is a thing. Smiley could shoot skitter for the reason mentioned in 656 or in an attempt to alleviate pressure on himself. I don't think it's as good of a shot as it looks, though. skitter's push on his slot had consistently failed to gain traction, so was it really that big of a problem? Even if it was, would said problem actually be solved by killing her? I say probably not. I just see it attracting more attention his way and creating a new problem that might be worse than the first one.
Unless he shot skitter so I could make this exact argument and write him off as town...
*WIFOM ensues*

This has been another brain dump and I don't remember what exactly the point was.

[Alianna]

I've come to the conclusion that the people I want dead are as follows: SmileyDude, Camel, Aliana, Eiralox

Not sure who I'd kill first, need more time to think it over

Alianna has been my only townread from day 1, why is it that you want to condemn them?

Smiley and Eiralox makes sense, I'm assuming that the reason I'm in there is because of the PC townflip but you refused to give reads upon request so I dunno

Just wondering what this was supposed to mean, because if we look at 185, 228, and 587, you definitely had townreads other than me on D1 and you've even acknowledged it on D2.

[Alianna]

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

Yes, esp. if smiley is scum
I am fine getting voting out if u commit to voting smiley -> camel afterwards

I'm fine with a camel vote, not so much with Smiley, but I can't say I like the idea of just committing to a specific chain of executions now and not re-evaluating our options as the game progresses.

[Alianna]

I've come to the conclusion that the people I want dead are as follows: SmileyDude, Camel, Aliana, Eiralox

Not sure who I'd kill first, need more time to think it over

Alianna has been my only townread from day 1, why is it that you want to condemn them?

Smiley and Eiralox makes sense, I'm assuming that the reason I'm in there is because of the PC townflip but you refused to give reads upon request so I dunno

Just wondering what this was supposed to mean, because if we look at 185, 228, and 587, you definitely had townreads other than me on D1 and you've even acknowledged it on D2.

Can I not have townreads on more than one person?

Yes, of course you can. What I was referring to is the line "Alianna has been my only townread from day 1..."

[Alianna]

Eiralox's frequent vote-flipping and changing their mind is something I tend to read as town.

Spoiler: quotes

Okay I never check my messages, consider that a VT claim. Merlyn as confirmed a valuable member of town.

Political Clout, one reason I hammered you is I felt Merlyn and Holdsteady were masons even while Merlyn was somewhat scummy.

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

Just voting, I'll sort everyone not Merlyn in two days as I said.

So we're confirmed to be in B2 (JK/FN) unless there's a counterclaim.
Eiralox, confirm you got the message?
And you can unvote yourself.

I guess I'm suspicious of you two. My main team I've been pushing is skitter/polaroid but I'd say camel/smiley possible just because they're trying harder than skitter and radical lol/

UNVOTE: laters

If I go by the logic I was using yesterday, there has to be one in camel/Eira/Steady, so I do see scum!camel as a likely possibility.
Still debating over Smiley.

Yeah also interesting you're not pushing skitter or radical ploaroid.

Lots of things I can use to solve here.

If I go by the logic I was using yesterday, there has to be one in camel/Eira/Steady, so I do see scum!camel as a likely possibility.
Still debating over Smiley.

Yeah also interesting you're not pushing skitter or radical ploaroid.

Lots of things I can use to solve here.

For your information, I don't really look at the game at night because someone's going to die anyway and whatever reads I had could shift, so no, I am not going to walk into the day with a push on anyone.

P-edit @skitter: Mostly my residual townread from overseer. One minute.

I didn't read at night but I'm still looking at skitter and ploaroid so *shrug*

VOTE: Radical Plolaroid

Ok sorry rad my vorte isn't changing until you get a bit more into thi game. I'm not trying to be rude I know people have lives but with o0ne confirmed we can easily solve this.

Oh also I have no idea about Alianna tbh and something like a skitter/alianna team isn't something i have studied which might be worrying?

UNVOTE:

ok yeah imma be an angler here, camel radical is a friendly neighbor.

VOTE: camelcasedsnivy


i'll diversify my portfolio

ok wait i'm dumb didnt read camel's post in many ways but eh the above retort did seem stilted

UNVOTE:

i'll chill.

[Alianna]

I'm going to retract my Jailkeeper claim.

I was interested in a world where Skitter and I were cleared to people. I got what I wanted out of it

What did you want? What did you gain?

[Alianna]

I just can't see what the point is in faking a claim there as town.
Actually, I'm just going to quote this from the OPs.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

Stop fakeclaiming power roles. Just stop. It's a miracle how neither of you got counterclaimed. There are times when a town fakeclaim can benefit the town, but those are rare, and it's not a good idea to attempt a gambit like that unless you

really

know what you're doing. All this has done is damage your credibility, create confusion, and cause the town to work off of false pretenses. I'm sorry to be so heated here, but I'm a little irritated about the time I wasted making reads that I now have to throw out the window because the "facts" I was working off of were lies.
Seriously, what is there to gain?

[Alianna]

I see why you think that post was expressing a read on Polaroid, but it wasn't. It was more, "if you're town, that's a very suboptimal thing to do and there's no good reason to do it," not, "I don't think town would do that."

[Alianna]

i mean it's awful but like
it doesn't come from scum

why does scum do that
alianna ur really starting to worry me
like a lot

I will probably come to the same conclusion, but I need a minute.

[Alianna]

I'm sorry steady
I like playing with u

^
So do I. I'm not sure I agree with you on the team, but I don't think you're an idiot.
You can always step away from the thread for a while if you need to, do whatever you need to do.

[Alianna]

What does resolving mean

To vote someone off and see their flip.

[Alianna]

I can understand the urge to vote RP but here's the thing:

Shes likely doomed herself, its hard to see scum taking the chance on keeping her alive just in case her claim was real and she's backtracking.

As the other person most likely to be killed, I want to remind folks that we have to resolve skitter at some point.

I'm pretty sure I agree with this. I'll have more thoughts tomorrow, but I think I've had enough of this game for today.

[Alianna]

y this be dead

Waiting on replacements, and I'm also feeling demotivated after the whole fake JK thing. I felt like I'd actually made some progress towards solving and then it all went down the drain.
My cynical prediction is that today ends with a compromise lim on camel and he flips green. Idk why, it's just a vibe.
We'll see what happens with the replacements though, and in the meantime I should work on some more reads.

[Alianna]

Copy that! While waiting for replacements:

So, both of you have 12 hours to convince me there's a scum in camel, alianna, steady or dude because I'm not feeling it while both of you have in fact acted like a clumsy scumteam from the start.

Okay, so you're saying the scumteam is skitter/RP. You're saying that RP falseclaimed a role and named her scumpartner as the target, thinking it would clear skitter? I can only see this happening if RP went completely rogue and didn't run this by skitter at all, skitter would know a thousand times over what a bad idea that is.

I agree with this. You can't fakeclaim in column B without being outed at some point - either via CC or in massclaim - so that claim wouldn't actually lead to a clear on skitter.
Mind you, if you don't realize that a JK target isn't a clear, you probably aren't thinking about the implications of claiming different roles in different setups either.
Still, skitter would never let that happen.

[Alianna]

Polaroid slot is most likely just town anyway due to lack of possible partners.
Smiley and skitter have already been discussed.
Steady and Eiralox (particularly the former) seem unlikely after what went down yesterday.
camel is possible, but in that case, it's better to flip him first and reconsider Polaroid if it's red. I still don't think she's especially likely to be scum in that scenario though.

[Alianna]

I've been liking the idea of scum!skitter more, but I need sleep so I'll explain tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Discounting something because it's a bad play is a bad play. Other than that I got nothing I'm not going to shout at skitter today and if I try to solve that' sort of what's going to happen through fault of my own. I'll post once I read. Not sure how I feel about Alianna's townread of Polaroid nor that sentence Alianna said we're maybe killing town camel. Not good, if I'm not sure it's not good.

But.

Nothing or no one has shown me it is not skiiter or polaroid other than 'games aren't like that, scum don't play like that.' Sometimes they are and sometimes they do.

Sure, a skitter/Polaroid team technically could have played as suboptimally as they would have had to in this game, but I don't think it's actually likely. I find it highly implausible that scum!skitter would allow her partner to make a fakeclaim like that or back said fakeclaim if Polaroid did it without consulting her. The complete lack of distancing isn't quite as much of a reach, but it's still quite bold to do that and also to continue doing it when both partners are under suspicion. You're assuming that just because something is possible, it is probable.

[Alianna]

I've been liking the idea of scum!skitter more, but I need sleep so I'll explain tomorrow.

Yes, i would indeed like to hear more abt this

There were just a few posts today that felt off.

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

Yes, esp. if smiley is scum
I am fine getting voting out if u commit to voting smiley -> camel afterwards

I'm fine with a camel vote, not so much with Smiley, but I can't say I like the idea of just committing to a specific chain of executions now and not re-evaluating our options as the game progresses.

how does ur post above change in the event i flip town
(i happen to know this, but i'm asking you to consider this worldview now)

like what happens next

I was going to respond to this one on Tuesday, but then the retraction happened and I forgot about it, so I'll do it now.
I really don't like this implication that I'm assuming you will flip scum and that I'm not considering any other worldview. There is nothing in 663 that suggests I was assuming you flip scum. If anything, I was talking to you like you're town. If you flip red, it's a no-brainer that we don't commit to executing whoever scum!you wanted. The scenario where we actually have to debate how much weight to give your reads after you die is the one where your reads are genuine. I mean, I guess we might use them for partner hunting in that case, but the option of "commit to doing what dead!skitter wanted" is only on the table if you're town. So you can't say that I haven't considered that worldview.
My previous posts today don't suggest I'm assuming you're scum either. On D2 (too lazy to check D1 but it's irrelevant anyway), I made exactly one post before the quoted post in which I expressed a negative view of your slot, and I wasn't even confident in it. All I said there was that I wasn't going to clear you off Polaroid's night action (though I didn't consider it a guilty either since there was a valid reason to shoot you) and that I didn't hate the idea of voting you.
This feels like a dishonest way of looking at my posts; I don't see any way that you could actually conclude that. It comes off like you were trying to subtly paint me in a negative light and contribute indirectly to the idea that I'm partnered with Smiley, which you said you think is the case 2 posts later.

camel i kinda independantly sr
alianna looks like a smiley partner

This comes after the post I just discussed and the now-invalid NKA I did in 661. If it wasn't clear, 661 was the reason I said I didn't want to vote Smiley.
What I don't like here is how quickly you decided I must be paired with Smiley. I gave some logic for why I thought he was town, but instead of considering my points or interacting with the logic, you just wrote me off as his partner. That makes me question if you're actually trying to solve.

Your comments about Political also feel like the classic TMI "I told you so," but that could come from town too so idk.

[Alianna]

This is probably the most time and effort I've ever

wasted

put into a mafia game lol.

[Alianna]

I really don't like this implication that I'm assuming you will flip scum and that I'm not considering any other worldview. There is nothing in 663 that suggests I was assuming you flip scum. If anything, I was talking to you like you're town. If you flip red, it's a no-brainer that we don't commit to executing whoever scum!you wanted. The scenario where we actually have to debate how much weight to give your reads after you die is the one where your reads are genuine. I mean, I guess we might use them for partner hunting in that case, but the option of "commit to doing what dead!skitter wanted" is only on the table if you're town. So you can't say that I haven't considered that worldview.

Hmm, idk if I like the last few sentences of this paragraph anymore. Maybe it's not obvious that I was talking to you like you're town. Still no reason to think I was assuming you're scum though, that part stands.

[Alianna]

Subject to change, but for now:

VOTE: skitter30

E-2.

[Alianna]

Subject to change, but for now:

VOTE: skitter30

E-2.

Is camel feeling good here? I'm not so sure about them and not so sure about you so for now I'm alerting you I'm not so sure about this vote(yes, skitter has still felt scummier than you.)(no, i haven't read all your posts yet)(yes I know I'm pushing you on nothing but if skitter is town here I'm not going to make things easy for scum)

camel is that slot that is dead null in my reads, has done nothing I read as towny but also nothing egregiously scummy, and that I think would be very easy to execute. Paranoid Vibe Brain says it would be too easy. I have not yet decided if Paranoid Vibe Brain is worth listening to.

[Alianna]

Welcome Wayward, sorry I didn't say that!

This is probably the most time and effort I've ever

wasted

put into a mafia game lol.

Someday Alianna we'll look back on this and be laughing- 'remember that newbie game where people just started fakeclaiming left and right?'

Lol yeah, what a game this has been.

[Alianna]

You're assuming that just because something is possible, it is probable.

The exact wording I thought I should have used at the time, right after posting or maybe while typing but I forgot, is 'can be a bad play.'

I'll put it like this, I think it's possible while I feel it's probable. And yes, scum skitter would want me to believe that and puh town radical so I'm aware how wrong I can be but like I said I'm operating off vibes so what everyone keeps telling me is insane is just what I've felt most of this game. And my life maybe but that's not relevant.

I also thought I was talking to Merlyn here. If you feel like a confirmed town then yeah I think there are scum motivation for what you're but I need to start taking stances at some time I guess.

Wait, how long did you think I was Merlyn for? Which posts?

[Alianna]

…

[Alianna]

I don’t know what’s going on mech-wise, and to be honest, I don’t really care either. I’m not inclined to believe a tracker claim, given that there was a no-kill and the slot is already tainted by a prior claim and take back. And I don’t really get why you would claim a JK “save” on skitter if you’re actually tracker with a guilty on somebody else.

[Alianna]

…

Hello user Alianna!
If you can answer the prompt by the time I wake up that would be appreciated!

What prompt? The guilty that’s probably fake?

[Alianna]

Thank you for your response!
Your wolf claim is appreciated!

Believe what you want.

[Alianna]

Part of me wants to massclaim just so everyone has to commit to a claim, but I don't really trust people to be honest about their roles after the last two PR claims and I do realize that could make things clearer for scum as well. It's...whatever.

[Alianna]

I've been liking the idea of scum!skitter more, but I need sleep so I'll explain tomorrow.

Yes, i would indeed like to hear more abt this

There were just a few posts today that felt off.

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

Yes, esp. if smiley is scum
I am fine getting voting out if u commit to voting smiley -> camel afterwards

I'm fine with a camel vote, not so much with Smiley, but I can't say I like the idea of just committing to a specific chain of executions now and not re-evaluating our options as the game progresses.

how does ur post above change in the event i flip town
(i happen to know this, but i'm asking you to consider this worldview now)

like what happens next

I was going to respond to this one on Tuesday, but then the retraction happened and I forgot about it, so I'll do it now.
I really don't like this implication that I'm assuming you will flip scum and that I'm not considering any other worldview. There is nothing in 663 that suggests I was assuming you flip scum. If anything, I was talking to you like you're town. If you flip red, it's a no-brainer that we don't commit to executing whoever scum!you wanted. The scenario where we actually have to debate how much weight to give your reads after you die is the one where your reads are genuine. I mean, I guess we might use them for partner hunting in that case, but the option of "commit to doing what dead!skitter wanted" is only on the table if you're town. So you can't say that I haven't considered that worldview.
My previous posts today don't suggest I'm assuming you're scum either. On D2 (too lazy to check D1 but it's irrelevant anyway), I made exactly one post before the quoted post in which I expressed a negative view of your slot, and I wasn't even confident in it. All I said there was that I wasn't going to clear you off Polaroid's night action (though I didn't consider it a guilty either since there was a valid reason to shoot you) and that I didn't hate the idea of voting you.
This feels like a dishonest way of looking at my posts; I don't see any way that you could actually conclude that. It comes off like you were trying to subtly paint me in a negative light and contribute indirectly to the idea that I'm partnered with Smiley, which you said you think is the case 2 posts later.

camel i kinda independantly sr
alianna looks like a smiley partner

This comes after the post I just discussed and the now-invalid NKA I did in 661. If it wasn't clear, 661 was the reason I said I didn't want to vote Smiley.
What I don't like here is how quickly you decided I must be paired with Smiley. I gave some logic for why I thought he was town, but instead of considering my points or interacting with the logic, you just wrote me off as his partner. That makes me question if you're actually trying to solve.

Your comments about Political also feel like the classic TMI "I told you so," but that could come from town too so idk.

The main problem I have with a Skitter lim at the moment is that the resulting course of action would lose the game if they're town which i'm still kind of split on. Like in the event that myself/Skitter was a TvT then town loses the game if we go Skitter into myself here. Question to everyone, what is your take on me/Skitter, cause maybe i'm just being paranoid here.

As to why i'm split I mentioned earlier that there's arguments for both a Skitter saved by Jailkeeper world and a Skitter blocked by Jailkeeper world so I thought i'd expound upon that a bit.

A hypothetical Scum Skitter may have had reason to believe that they were safe to commit the NK given how day 1 ended. The EoD became chaotic at the end in such a way that put suspicion on many players, I could envision scumSkitter taking advantage of the fact that they weren't there for that to commit a NK that was relatively unlikely to be blocked.

I could also easily see a world where scum try to kill TownSkitter as well. Given the 1v1 that our slots had earlier, I could easily see scum attempting to kill Skitter in order to point suspicion towards me. They may have also had interest in killing them in order to remove one of the more experienced players in the playerlist


I'm going to be at work and won't be able to post until later afternoon/early evening, until then

So your main issue with a skitter vote is that you're next if they flip green. That looks awfully sus. But it would lose the game from your POV so it's actually kind of valid.

[Alianna]

Part of me wants to massclaim just so everyone has to commit to a claim, but I don't really trust people to be honest about their roles after the last two PR claims and I do realize that could make things clearer for scum as well. It's...whatever.

So you think both iterations of the slot fake-aimed
With no counter?

Nobody countered PC either.
Idk. There are just a lot of contradicting factors surrounding these claims and I am struggling to put them all together.

[Alianna]

As scum?

Probably not?

[Alianna]

Part of me wants to massclaim just so everyone has to commit to a claim, but I don't really trust people to be honest about their roles after the last two PR claims and I do realize that could make things clearer for scum as well. It's...whatever.

If there's there a jailkeeper I'm sure scum already know precisely who it is.

True, true, they've got more info than the town does.

[Alianna]

As scum?

Probably not?

Right so why are you shading this?

I'm not. Fakeclaims can come from town, as evidenced by earlier this game.
How exactly did I go from clearing Polaroid slot to shading them as scum (assuming that's who you mean since they're the one claiming)? Are you, perhaps, shading me?

[Alianna]

Part of me wants to massclaim just so everyone has to commit to a claim, but I don't really trust people to be honest about their roles after the last two PR claims and I do realize that could make things clearer for scum as well. It's...whatever.

So you think both iterations of the slot fake-aimed
With no counter?

Nobody countered PC either.
Idk. There are just a lot of contradicting factors surrounding these claims and I am struggling to put them all together.

Like this ks shade
You're admitting you think it's unlikely that scum fake-claimed

What are you struggling with

First of all, I didn't "admit" anything and I don't like the choice of wording.
I agree that a scum fakeclaim seems unlikely, though I'm not going to rule anything out, especially when I can't wrap my head around what's going on.
Here's what I'm trying to sort out.

1. No one died last night.

This suggests a protective role. Scum holstering is possible but less likely. In that scenario, it's probably done by scum who think a doctor would be on them, think a jailkeeper would be on them and are towny enough for it to look like a save, or think a jailkeeper target would incriminate town with the no-kill. Doctor and jailkeeper are both a 33% chance in column B though, so there would be some considering to do.

2. Polaroid claimed JK who targeted skitter, then walked it back.

3. Alisae claimed tracker with a guilty on one of three people, none of whom are skitter.

If you're JK and targeted skitter, why would you do that? I guess I could also ask why someone would do that as VT though. More importantly, if you're tracker and have a guilty (i.e. you caught someone visiting that is not Merlyn), why would you claim JK who was on skitter? You 100% know who it is, so why wouldn't you just come out with it? That's the scenario I really don't see happening.

4. There have been no counterclaims.

Either our PR is doing some really weird stuff that doesn't make any sense (to me), or someone is deliberately not counterclaiming for some reason.

From my perspective, there's no simple answer here. No matter who is scum or who is PR, someone here is not playing in an expected manner.

[Alianna]

I wanted to give this some time but the progression I saw was: Polaroid vt claim when political was up, Polaroid Jailor claim after scum buddy skitter is jailed, Alisae Tracker claim because [redacted].

Polaroid didn't claim VT D1 though.

[Alianna]

I wanted to give this some time but the progression I saw was: Polaroid vt claim when political was up, Polaroid Jailor claim after scum buddy skitter is jailed, Alisae Tracker claim because [redacted].

Polaroid didn't claim VT D1 though.

kill me, I couldn't care less

gl

Ok yes I misremembered due to read bias. My instincts still scream skitter/alisae every second.

I can't bring myself to agree with you, but after the rep-in, I at least understand why.

i think going thru: alianna, smiley, camel wins tbh

oh correction
my post didn't go all the way through and I did not notice it.

I have tracker guilty on SmileyDude1, Alianna, and camelCasedSnivy

I would like the thread to guess which one it is.

Perfectly in sync.

[Alianna]

@Eiralox - I know you think it's both skitter and Alisae, but if you had to pick one, who would you say is more likely?

[Alianna]

I mean this might be a coordinated monty python skit a this point idk. Like where else can I look look? The only other real bad vibes I got was from a single camel pot where they basically said yeah we gotta elim polaroid I mean I guess that sounded scummy?

camel's possible. I'd consider Smiley if it's not skitter. I also haven't reread Steady/Wayward slot yet to see if there's a world where they're scum who just played really towny. I'm sure there's a chance you're scum too but I'm not feeling it.

[Alianna]

SmileyDude - Very obvious mafia. I don't think his posting is someone who wants to be right. Also why would they think I have a tracker guilty on them if they're innocent? That's not something that really makes a whole lot of sense?

Yeah, that was my thought too when I read that.

Alianna - I think they're furious because they're mafia who knows I'm fakeclaiming. Skitter I think can make an educated guess that I am fakeclaiming, that understands that there are pro-town benefits to going along with my play and as a result, went along with it. Alianna just aimed towards shutting it down and non-cooperation. I don't really think this is a town!motivated way to go about this? I can totally see her play here as a wolf trying to shut down my play and refusing to cooperate. Again, even if she thinks its fake, playing my game and seeing what comes of it is practically harmless. Forcing a massclaim doesn't really come across as town!motive at all. I think she's just a very frustrated wolf.

Frustrated, yes, but I definitely wasn't furious and I apologize if I came off that way, though I really don't think I did?
I can't really object to most of the reasoning here, knowing that I have actually done similar things as scum. I'm just...not scum this time. All I can really do is explain what I was thinking at the time.
To be honest (look, I did a scumtell!), I was tired of "playing games" after EoD1 and the RP claim shenanigans, and I wanted some clarity as to what was actually going on. I was hoping we would get that after the replacement, so it was frustrating to wake up to what was pretty clearly fakeclaim #3. I didn't really stop to consider the potential benefits of going along with it, I just posted my thoughts off the top of my head.
I also did not try to force a massclaim. I didn't even push a massclaim. I mentioned the idea in passing and went, "it's whatever."

[Alianna]

I also want Alianna to tell me who she thinks mafia is [Skitter is not an acceptable answer].

If you're expecting me to commit to a solve here, I'm not going to do that, that just isn't how I work. Here are my thoughts on the playerlist.
Me, you, and Merlyn are confirmed town from my POV.
Eiralox and Wayward are townreads, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong on one of them. Wayward himself is actually null for me, but I liked his predecessor's approach D1 so the townread carries over. I'm not taking the jailkeep into account when I say that because I think that slot is both a likely target if town and a likely killer if scum.
camel is just meh. Dead null, don't really want to execute them today though.
I'm not going to rule out scum!skitter just because you think she's town. I am quite skeptical of her play today, specifically her treatment of my slot, and I'm not going to ignore that. Smiley has, however, dropped in my reads after 849 and the two are about even now. I think there is a high chance one is scum, but not both. My certainty that at least one of my scumreads is town is also part of the reason I'm not ruling out my townreads as potential partners. I would like to resolve the bottom tier first though.

I can't help but acknowledge some kind of universe where she is town and she just doesn't know why discussion around a bunch of lies could be helpful at exposing who is informed who & who isn't. I think she's being dense purposely because there's wolf motive to act the way she's acting, but I can acknowledge that she could be a villager who is grumpy because people don't play how she thinks people should play. Very easy mindset to fall into when you think you understand how this game works.

News Flash: Mafia is a fucking wild game people will do wild shit, people will find lines of play that you could have never imagined exist, some of it you think is happening because "Player bad" other times there'll be reasoning behind the play that make sense.
Heck, this is definitely going to be a hot take but I think cop results shouldn't be claimed right away. Why would u do that when you can crumb your results? When you die, you KNOW people should be DIGGING through that ISO to find literally anything that indicates what results you have.

I think my other post addressed most of this.

[Alianna]

Hey guys

VOTE: Alianna

Hi!

VOTE: overseer

lmfao these 2 voted each other in rvs kek

VOTE: alianna

I feel like I’m supposed to ask about this vote.

Why

The timing of it. Voting for me right after I posted. That gives me the feeling that skitter had a reason to vote specifically me, as opposed to it being purely random. I can only guess the lack of explanation was meant to provoke questions and discussion.
Or maybe it wasn’t and I’m just pulling theories out of thin air, but that’s kind of what we’re supposed to do in the early game anyway.
I really don’t see anything wrong with me asking people to get avatars though.

this is a wolf self-consciousness and this is how a wolf talks about a vote on them.

Alianna - I like the initial activity and the posts seem genuine. I feel scum would wait a bit instead of "leading the charge" in trying to kick off the game

oh look a townread based on a whole bunch of words that don't mean anything

Maybe I'm biased because I know I'm town, but this looks like confirmation bias to me.
The voting each other in RVS is a silly thing to read into imo. Do you actually find that scum do that a lot?
My early game posts were meant to provoke discussion, so I was reaching in that second one for sure. And if I got a dollar every time someone called me scummy for self-consciousness or self-awareness, I'd be rich.

[Alianna]

VOTE: SmileyDude1

E-1.

I'm fine with this vote. It at least resolves the Smiley/skitter conflict.
If this flips red, feel free to vote me next. I don't think the case for Alianna/Smiley is that great, but it's better for me to die tomorrow than in MeLo. In that case, skitter's clear.
If it flips green, I'm probably voting skitter tomorrow.

[Alianna]

Wait, that's not E-1 lol. Forgot there were 8 of us and not 7. E-2.

[Alianna]

VOTE: SmileyDude1

E-1.

I'm fine with this vote. It at least resolves the Smiley/skitter conflict.
If this flips red, feel free to vote me next. I don't think the case for Alianna/Smiley is that great, but it's better for me to die tomorrow than in MeLo. In that case, skitter's clear.
If it flips green, I'm probably voting skitter tomorrow.

This is the 2nd time I noticed ur brain thinking it takes 4 to eliminate
It takes 5

Yeah, I'm used to D2 of a micro being 7 people lol. I did remember we'd be in MeLo and not ELo though somehow (unless you prevent another kill). Idk, brain weird.

[Alianna]

Alianna if wolf!skitter is something u genuinely believe, who is their partner?

I haven't considered that in depth yet. My preferred approach there is to see if I'm right about her first and then look at possible partners. I like using preflip associatives to get reads on people sometimes, but I don't feel like I have enough information to do it with skitter. It's not like your slot before you repped in, where I felt RP was obviously not paired with a lot of people and cleared her off that, or like Smiley when I thought skitter was the NK, because then I had the unpaired-looking 1v1 and the NKA that I could combine. It could be worth looking at the Wayward/Steady kill, but it's not as informative of a choice so I doubt I'd get as much out of it.
Just off the top of my head, though, I'd say camel or Wayward. I don't think I'll have time to verify that tonight, so I'll read and give updated thoughts tomorrow if you want.

[Alianna]

Alianna if wolf!skitter is something u genuinely believe, who is their partner?

I haven't considered that in depth yet. My preferred approach there is to see if I'm right about her first and then look at possible partners. I like using preflip associatives to get reads on people sometimes, but I don't feel like I have enough information to do it with skitter. It's not like your slot before you repped in, where I felt RP was obviously not paired with a lot of people and cleared her off that, or like Smiley when I thought skitter was the NK, because then I had the unpaired-looking 1v1 and the NKA that I could combine. It could be worth looking at the Wayward/Steady kill, but it's not as informative of a choice so I doubt I'd get as much out of it.
Just off the top of my head, though, I'd say camel or Wayward. I don't think I'll have time to verify that tonight, so I'll read and give updated thoughts tomorrow if you want.

Damn see this is hard. This post does feel town and it's feeding into my skitter paranoia. Only problem is skitter was pushing to clear polaroid when we pushed her... Me too, yes, but I shouldn't be forgetting that. So skitter must have been informed that Alisae is the pr here, you're saying, and either skitter did target town looking holdsteady or holdsdteady is skitter's guilty partner. If you're telling me holdsteady as the nk isn't informative I get the feeling I need to read holdsteady posts, and you thought skitter was the NK? I'm.... hmmmm. Not a guilty, a nk.

I think you're voting smiley?

Ugh yeah I'mma tap out.

I made an entire post around the assumption that skitter was the NK, that’s what I was referring to. Of course I thought she could be a guilty, that scenario just wasn’t interesting for my purposes.
If you’re accusing me of scumslipping, that doesn’t work because hypothetical scum!me knows who we killed and didn’t “think skitter was the NK” unless Alisae’s lying again.

[Alianna]

I'm going to Jail Alianna I just have to clear this person at night when Smiley flips mafia.
What is she going to do, kill me?

*brandishes knife wildly*

[Alianna]

(that was a joke, please don't execute me lol)

[Alianna]

But yeah, jail me if Smiley flips red.

[Alianna]

I'm going to Jail Alianna I just have to clear this person at night when Smiley flips mafia.
What is she going to do, kill me?

*brandishes knife wildly*

i bet that knife is made out of rubber

*charges at Alisae with knife*

[Alianna]

THERE'S ONLY ROOM FOR ONE ALI IN THIS TOWN!

[Alianna]

I want post 1000 before anyone hammers.

[Alianna]

oh dang 2 days left on deadline day 2 was shorter than i thought though

Yeah, it's 10 days for D1 and 7 days for the other days.

[Alianna]

It's probably fine if someone hammers.
I'll just take post 1000 tomorrow, not like I'm going to die lol.

[Alianna]

It's probably fine if someone hammers.
I'll just take post 1000 tomorrow, not like I'm going to die lol.

yeah, scum cant kill themselves

I have a feeling aisa is gonna take #1000 anyway

I'll sue her if she does.

[Alianna]

Fingers crossed.

[Alianna]

Oh really?

[Alianna]

MIne.

[Alianna]

MIne.

Lol, can't even capitalize it correctly.

[Alianna]

YOU CAN'T STOP ME!

[Alianna]

That wasn't a concession lol.

[Alianna]

But yeah, jail me if Smiley flips red.

nvm ig? alisae never responded to this though

My comment was a reply to Alisae saying this though.

nah I think if smiley flips mafia I am just going to jail Alianna and whatever happens is not my problem anymore

[Alianna]

Ok how would you like to refute my case then

If I must, then I'll go through it, but if you're so tunnelled that you don't believe I was jailed when there's nothing to suggest the contrary, are you going to believe anything I say?
Why do you think it's plausible that Alisae changed targets? Doing that is objectively a bad idea because the risk if I'm scum is misclearing me and losing the game. That obviously didn't happen since you're still tunnelled on me for some reason (though you would be wrong), but it was still a significant possibility.

[Alianna]

Idk i'm on the fence
And alianna all but conceded yesterday

Idk what ali did last night

Ok, missed this, I guess you aren't tunnelled.

[Alianna]

I'd still like to know why you think it's plausible that Alisae changed targets.

[Alianna]

Meh. I think I'm all but conftown here, but if you really need me to address the case, I will. Will take a bit of time though.

[Alianna]

pagetop

alianna are you saying you think alisae switched?

I'm saying that I don't think Alisae switched.

[Alianna]

pagetop

alianna are you saying you think alisae switched?

I'm saying that I don't think Alisae switched.

...so then you're conf

Yeah. "All but conftown" means that technically I don't have 100% proof of whether I was jailed since I don't have a night action, but Alisae switching is so unlikely to me that I'm basically just confirmed.

[Alianna]

wrt alianna:

* feeling like she was undermining townreads i had (e.g. 30 on political clout)

That's one way to interpret it, but there are town motives to question you on that read too. I wanted to know your reasons for townreading something that I didn't think was AI, and I also thought getting you to talk about the read might help to get some discussion going.

* trying to mediate the me/overseer thing (e.g. 44) - this is a point in favor of smiley/alianna, not scum-alianna alone
* kinda ended up on radical being the scum in the me/overseer/radical fight (e.g. 149) - if overseer is her partner that's the safest conclusion from her pov. there was never really any great reason to tr overseer there (and didn't even state a tr until explicitly asked), and the reasoning isn't particularly great (153)

Not much I can say to these. I can understand why it looks bad.

* i want to call the waffling on pc at eod scummy but i recognize i might be tunneled and inclined to just read things in a bad light; this is prob nai given the imminent deadline
* however 437 is bad despite that

"It's bad" isn't something I can refute.

* a lot of waffling on smiley's slot - 537, 585.

based on her earlier logic of 'one scum in me/radical/overseer'

, once radical flips town, her focus should go to me/smiley, but it doesn't really; she waffles on smiley and takes a long time to push me (honestly doesn't start until i sus her) - good callout eirolax in 560

How is 537 waffling on Smiley's slot?

My logic was that there was no more than one scum in you/Smiley/RP, not that there was exactly one scum.

I already replied to 560.

* @ali - she immediately believes the jailkeeper claim - 656 makes me think i *wasn't* the kill but not certain on this

I don't get why this is scummy. I'm inclined to believe PR claims until I'm given a reason to question them (and yes, "this slot has made three different claims and idk which, if any, are true," as was the case after the Alisae rep-in, is a reason to question them).

* same with 661 - somehow the conclusion here is that smiley is likely town, when the topic of discussion (and conclusion) should be abt me

That's just...not how I work. I make the conclusions that I

can

make based on the information I have, not necessarily the ones I "should" make based on what the current topic of discussion is.
I thought you were viable as both a target and a killer, so you (supposedly) being jailed didn't say much about you. It was more interesting to look at it through an associative lens since I'd decided there wasn't a scumteam in the triangle of you/Smiley/RP. It happened that Smiley was unlikely to be either your partner or your attacker, so he was most likely town. I'd have applied similar logic to RP if she hadn't been the one claiming JK.

* oh look more waffling/defense of smiley 663

I mean, I thought he was cleared so...
This is one of those things where yes, it makes sense for scum!me to say that, but there's just as much reason for town!me to say it. I feel like you bring up a couple of those in this case (like the first point, for example).

* i *can* see 671 coming from town who's annoyed tbf. it does also work as shade from scum :shrug:
* and somehow we're ending with being annoyed enuf at rp that she's willing to vote her 721 - i *know* alianna knows better

That's the exact opposite of what I actually said. Merlyn's post was saying why we

shouldn't

vote RP even though she understood the urge to do so, and I was agreeing with her. I do know better, that's why I agreed with Merlyn.

* 807 reads like i *wasn't* the nk but taht she liked having the claimed soft-guilty, and is annoyed that ali took it back

I wasn't even treating the JK as a soft guilty. My scumread on you was entirely based on play, so the "guilty" being taken back didn't weaken my case any.

* idk why she isn't just coming ot the conclusion that ali slot is town. like yeah there were like 3 fake-claims from the slot, but nobody counterclaimed. like yeah the result mattered but the fact that we have the second pr (and second clear) should be obvious so idk why she keeps going on and on abt the fake-claiming thing and what it does to her reads. like yeah i ahve no idea who the target was at this point but this doesn't seem to be ali's point, her suspicion seems to be abt the pr itself 827 - there's no counterclaim, so this seems silly and misplaced

I never said they weren't town though?
The reads being affected aren't on the slot claiming the PRs, they're on the slots I may clear or suspect based on the claimed targets.

[Alianna]

If anyone can spoil me a lesson on spoilers, I'd appreciate it. I remember it being easy! I set the time to my right time. I didn't expect all these changes when I signed up, but I guess everything changes!

Alianna reminds me of a scum in 2100 who I supported all the way up to the end of the last Day. I don't think (if they're scum) they'll be easily tripped up.

I mean, I thought he was cleared so...

This is in reference to Smiley. I thought skitter was half cleared. What made you think Smiley was cleared?

I went over it in 661. I can try to clarify if it still doesn't make sense after reading that post.

she said she would be on me if the kill went through

also merlyn ty for funni message

To me this sounds like a preemptive attempt to say "It couldn't be me, I was RBed". The conversation that followed makes me think you really wanted to be thought of as the one who was RBed.

This is a good observation as Alisae actually changed their mind after saying they'd go on camel.

nah I think if smiley flips mafia I am just going to jail Alianna and whatever happens is not my problem anymore

This is the last time they claimed a target. What do you make of it and why haven't you factored it into your read on me or even mentioned it at all?

[Alianna]

Ok so I wanted to lurk and watch and wait until I'm sure here But I'll just get prodded.

VOTE: Alianna

This is an erring on the side of cuation vote and im making it because no one's voting.

I'm very willing to vote out skitter, wayward and camel. This day is probably going to be alianna v camel.
Skitter scum bussing? Pushing to clear the pr? Smiley being okay with dying knowing skitter has the win?

It's all probably possible but for now the thing that'll linger is 'is Alianna cleared' so, if Alisae wanted to make this fun for Alianna I mean that's possible?

Not that I'm worried yet, that's about it. Nothing useful.

I don't think it's skitter. I really don't see the overseer 1v1 as a bus. I'm between Wayward and camel.

If I'm reading this correctly, you're proposing that Alisae may have deliberately played against wincon to "make this fun" for me? That's not even allowed on the site so I would hope not.

[Alianna]

Night 1:

Pol jails hold goon, no kill.
Camel goon targets hold, no kill.
Alianna goon targets hold, no kill.
Skitter goon targets hold, no kill.

Is holdsteady a valuable target? Why?

...what

smiley was jailkept n1 idk what you're on about

It feels really cheap to call this a scumslip, but that's the vibe I got. Probably not going to take this into account though.

[Alianna]

Not just to skitter, but to the rest of the people who don't believe I'm cleared here,

why?

Alisae said they were going to jail me last night if Smiley flipped red, and they died. The entire point of claiming your target like that is so that the town knows who you were on and can clear them in the event that you die. It is objectively not a good idea to switch targets there because it can easily go wrong and end in scum!me being miscleared. Sure, you could make the argument that players don't always play optimally, but the risk here is losing the game. I'm not the most familiar with Alisae, but I believe they are an experienced enough player to recognize this. They would have to have been sure enough on someone else to bet the game (and from my POV, still managed to jail the wrong person, but that's only relevant to me).
Perhaps I'm biased due to knowing my own alignment, but I really don't see any reason to assume that's a likely scenario.

[Alianna]

i can see ali changing targets after

Do you see it because you think I'm scum or because you think Alisae is actually likely to have done something that risky in this situation? I think you're stuck in a tunnel here.

[Alianna]

Who do you think

was

jailed last night then?

[Alianna]

Skitter, what if we just kill Snivy today? I'm sure if it's wrong you can rally town to kill Alianna like you want

If we vote wrong today and you die, we probably no-execute tomorrow to narrow the pool.

[Alianna]

Copy that, I'm down to vote snivy today and if he flips green lim Alianna.

you really think alisae switched?

i don't see ANY reason why they would

Why aren't you more focused on the fact that I want to lim you?

VOTE: CameCasedSnivy

Why is it scummy not to focus on that?

[Alianna]

Not 100% sure who I want to vote for yet, I'll re-read at some point tonight.

[Alianna]

I had a look through D1 again, noticed a couple things I don't recall having commented on before, but it's mostly just confirmed the reads I already have.

Spoiler: quotes

Ok so immediately yall looked into the selfvote a lot more than needed; I self voted a LONG TIME back into 2 games where I was both townie.

Also looking at the fight between political and overseer made me think overseer was towny, as well as skitter and overseer's banter too. Neither of those felt like 2 townies just not understanding each other, so that's my main read right now.

This could be trying to clear a partner while simultaneously casting suspicion onto town.

Looking at the few posts Political has had, they keep saying "oh you're doing this that means you're scum", #117 was their only seemingly productive post while continuing to vote themselves (just saying that's kinda unproductive).

Also since someone was curious about my overseer townread, I think that what stuck out is the overseer and Radical banter, overseer was willing to question the "scumread" on them which I think is towny.

This reasoning is rather thin - why wouldn't scum want to question scumreads on themselves?

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

Arko has been kinda neutral for me so why do you "not like" them?

Also I agree on everything else

This post stands out to me because it's a sharp turn from camel's previous read of overseer with no visible progression. overseer didn't post between 147 and 185, so what changed? This is maybe indicative of not having real reads?

Another pattern from Eiralox that I realized is probably town:

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

true VOTE: political clout

This still your vote? this is either a vannila claim or a troll scum tactic, you understand why i'll be considering you a viable lim candidate for that once panic flash wagons start lining up?

By your words I'm feeling like we either eliminate political clout or radical polaroid. I'd go for political because I'm sure we ain't hitting a pr there.

VOTE: Political Clout

I'm okay with killing at best a vanilla. No one ever wants to join my no-lim cult : (

I'll try to read Alianna.

Outing PRs early is very beneficial to scum, but at the same time, townies aren't actually expected to PR-hunt to avoid doing so, so there isn't much benefit to pretending to do that. The VT read also makes sense (and was correct), so I don't think Eiralox was trying to switch their PR/VT reads or anything like that. This is just a really weird take for scum to have and I'd be surprised if that's what it was.

Steady is more null than I remember. I don't have much specific to comment on with them though. They're still townier than camel though.

Smiley readslist is annoyingly inconclusive.

Readslist looks something like this:

{

Alianna

,

Merlyn

}
{

skitter30

,

Eiralox

}
{

Wayward Son

}
{

camelCasedSnivy

}

Ideally, I'd like to vote out camel and then Wayward if camel flips green. I'm hoping we don't have to deal with that scenario though.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

E-2.

[Alianna]

I'm supposed to post today so I don't get prodded, but I don't have anything I want to post about.

[Alianna]

Feel free to ask me questions, I guess.

[Alianna]

Feel free to ask me questions, I guess.

I guess my question would be why you don't seem to feel like playing

It's not that I don't feel like playing (though it wouldn't be AI for me if I didn't), I just don't have much new to post about. I did my re-read of D1, it confirmed my reads, I made my vote. Nothing past that has changed my reads any. I commented on skitter's case, nothing's changed there so I assume I wasn't very convincing, but skitter hasn't actually commented on any of it so there's nothing I can refute. I think we win this by executing camel and then Wayward if that's wrong, but my case for Wayward is literally POE so there's not much there to push.

[Alianna]

I mean...it is.

[Alianna]

It's also what I do as town though.

[Alianna]

@ Alianna I saw your sig at the top of the page just now. You have 2603 posts, but you've collected 14 1000 posts? It's really impressive, but you gotta be an alt!

This is my main, but you're correct that some of those are from alts and hydras.

[Alianna]

also we have 20 hours left on deadline

Ok, i'll do snivy
If snivy flips town i want alianna tomorrow

why though? what makes alianna scummier than wayward here?

i can't unsee it

5 hours on deadline.

[Alianna]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

[Alianna]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

I think missing a lim and catching someone already actually puts town ahead of where it would normally be at this stage.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, can you rephrase?

[Alianna]

ugh so if this is town and i somehow die im not sure who'd be scum between wayward, alianna and skitter. so maybe it'd be good for town lol.

my best guess is Alianna or skitter. Which is tough, they're both great players!

Why not Wayward?

[Alianna]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

I think missing a lim and catching someone already actually puts town ahead of where it would normally be at this stage.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, can you rephrase?

Sorry, probably not clear, I keep expecting the thread to get locked! I just meant that normally we would have one less town here but with a NK that didn't happen we've had extra breathing room. Plus we've caught a scums, so just one to go. Definitely not a sure thing, but I'm optimistic

It's 4:30 AM in Aisa-time, I think we have some twilight left lol.
One blocked kill doesn't actually give us any breathing room in terms of misexecutions. It makes the game longer by a day, but in order to get the best statistical odds, we have to no-execute tomorrow to reduce the pool. We only get to execute one more person after this if we're wrong, so it's better to wait to have 1/3 odds instead of 1/4. Unless you don't die, in which case it's 1/3 anyway. It would actually take two missing NKs to gain us an execution.

[Alianna]

ugh so if this is town and i somehow die im not sure who'd be scum between wayward, alianna and skitter. so maybe it'd be good for town lol.

my best guess is Alianna or skitter. Which is tough, they're both great players!

Why not Wayward?

Only vibes from HoldSteady.

What town really has to ask there (and you all may come up with a different conclusion than me) is whether all that emotion was frustrated town or scum shaken they had been RB'd.

My preferred approach to emotionally charged posting is to not touch it with a 10-foot pole.

[Alianna]

For me, it's a matter of POE, which unfortunately isn't the best case when I'm under suspicion myself.
Merlyn - conftown.
skitter - the main conflict of D1 would have to be SvS, also I'm not sure why Smiley switches to TRing skitter if the plan is to bus each other. She wasn't in danger iirc.
Eiralox - has felt like they lack an agenda and the VT-hunting thing was weird to be faked.
Wayward - Steady's vibes were super town, but honestly, nothing stuck out to me as difficult to fake by a competent scum player.

I will read again if the game doesn't end and maybe the confirmation bias will help me come up with a case.

[Alianna]

I die here like >90% of the time

I don't think you guys learn that much honestly
I'm kinda fine with actually limming today

Yeah I thought u meant "I get limmed here 90% of the time" and "you people have learned nothing!"

and it's like......

something completely different. Ugh I have this light headache and it's late so scratch that entire big post I made lol. At this point I'll wait to hear from wayward and alianna where they think scum are as I read

Right now, I'm about 80% sure it's Wayward, small chance one of you and skitter is playing me but it really doesn't seem likely.
I've only had time to reassess D1 though (as I did yesterday in-game), so I might have a few more things to comment on that I missed previously.

[Alianna]

I still don't think I'd be opposed to a no-lim, but we'll see. I should have more time for this game in the next few days.