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Post #1245 (isolation #0) » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:06 pm
Postby DragonEater70 »
Hi!
Haven't read the game yet, started reading D4 and will probably be reading backwards. I won't commit to any vote or read before reading the other days, but I will say my thoughts as I read.
I'm saying that normally when you no-lim, the goal is to havs scum kill someone (ideally someone sketchy) so that you're left with one fewer person to make the choice in tomorrow
I think that I most likely die here >90% of the time
I think that i should be viewed as town at this point honestly (due to my prior actions in the game) so if i'm dead (and am revealed as town) you didnt learn anything abt my alignment (in that i think today i should be townread anyways)
If you are not that confident on me being town and want to no-lim to see who dies, that makea sense
Why do you think you will be killed? And why do you think you should be thought of as town?
In post 1208, skitter30 wrote:
Fair enuf
If we no-lim today i would first like to spend time discussing why i think it's alianna tho
I would like to hear your case on her.
Also, getting a townie vibe from Eiralox's 1205, 1207, 1210
In post 63, Radical Polaroid wrote:
I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.
I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.
Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.
This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.
Oooooh i like this
Esp. since i had similar thoughts abt overseer there
In post 95, overseer wrote:
Skitter30 - I have played with skitter before, and she was pretty good, I feel she was very stingy with her vote and explored all angles, even when we had a basically confirmed scum. This time her questions to me just feel shallow. Her vote on me comes off as opportunistic on a case that is very weak. I'm suspicious of her town read on political clout as well.
yeah ok so :
- we have less than 100 posts still. at this stage, any vote/read i make isn't going to be based on anything super strong, i'm using the limited information i have to try to make progress
-that sometimes in order to move things along, you need to make mountains out of molehills, and it might not be based on a ton
- in short, i agree with you that my vote on you is not iron-clad and that i might be reaching a bit in order to try to generate content and start to form reads on people
- the thing that i have an issue with is *why do you think this is more likely to come from scum-me than town-me*. the fact that you're jumping here to call me scum over this is not great; i don't feel like you're not considering town worlds, but are just assuming i'm scum here
- i would like to hear more about how my vote was oppurtunistic, it was the second vote on you
- what do you think i should be doing here, at this stage of the game, to make my questions *less* shallow
i'm kinda getting the vibe that you dont' like that i'm scumreading you, so you're scumreading me in turn tbh
In post 63, Radical Polaroid wrote:
I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.
I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.
Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.
In what way is this tmi
Is this rhetorical?
No. Why is it tmi?
I don't think it is, you apparently think it is, so i'd like you to explain it to me
In post 111, overseer wrote:
I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.
Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.
TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.
soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you
so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked
I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.
Can you explain how:
- it's unlikely we're a team
- we're tagteaming
At the same time? To me it looks like you're arguing that at once we're not teamed, but we're parterning to push you, which doesnt make sense to me to think at the same time
Yeah tbis checks out, no way in heaven that this is SvS.
Unless Skitter is playing 4D chess and decided to off her partner just so she can win this 4 player Melo. Which tbh is too WIFOM for me so I am going to go with Skitter town, and deserves the w if she is scum
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Post #1254 (isolation #4) » Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:58 am
Postby DragonEater70 »
On a very quick look through the ISO, I kinda wanna townread Alianna for personality, just because her personality is 100% identical to all the games I've played with her as town. The only problem though is that Alianna was town every single game I played with her, so I wouldn't know what differences to look for, meta-wise.
Alianna, could you please link a completed scum game of yours?
I looked at this game and Alianna definitely has the same personality as scum as the one she has as town. So that means the earlier townread is invalid. I am gonnaa have a deeper look at her ISO this game, but I do have a gut feeling it's her.
Why so? I realize PC isn't me, but I've done similar stuff as both alignments. I'd be interested in your reasoning though.
Maybe i'm wrong but generally i feel like posts like that are less likely to come from scum, it feels a little too brazen to vote for themself
It's five to lynch
and there's several days left. I'd like to believe that it's too brazen but I feel like it'd be safe enough for a scum to jokingly vote themselves
Or are you saying that voting yourself something that is typically read as suspicious, and that he'd be unlikely to draw attention to himself? What's brazen about it?
In post 39, Radical Polaroid wrote:
Sorry, I don't really have anything to say, but I wanted to check in.
Read the first two pages, what do you think of what's been said so far? Does anything stand out to you as a town or scum move?
"Lynch" is banned on this site, we say "eliminate" or "execute" instead.
I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.
Like for example, making unofficial vote counts.
But I realize these might be more personality than anything AI which is why I asked for a scumgame and I feel you were more or less the same whimsicalness over there, though with less mod impersonations (sarcastic).
But honestly idk, I need to go to sleep like 50 minutes ago and I don't think you have done anything extremely incriminating but I have not really looked at the ISO so I will do that tomorrow and good a good solid read regardless of personality hopefully. GN!
In post 63, Radical Polaroid wrote:
I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.
I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.
Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.
This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.
Oooooh i like this
Esp. since i had similar thoughts abt overseer there
In post 95, overseer wrote:
Skitter30 - I have played with skitter before, and she was pretty good, I feel she was very stingy with her vote and explored all angles, even when we had a basically confirmed scum. This time her questions to me just feel shallow. Her vote on me comes off as opportunistic on a case that is very weak. I'm suspicious of her town read on political clout as well.
yeah ok so :
- we have less than 100 posts still. at this stage, any vote/read i make isn't going to be based on anything super strong, i'm using the limited information i have to try to make progress
-that sometimes in order to move things along, you need to make mountains out of molehills, and it might not be based on a ton
- in short, i agree with you that my vote on you is not iron-clad and that i might be reaching a bit in order to try to generate content and start to form reads on people
- the thing that i have an issue with is *why do you think this is more likely to come from scum-me than town-me*. the fact that you're jumping here to call me scum over this is not great; i don't feel like you're not considering town worlds, but are just assuming i'm scum here
- i would like to hear more about how my vote was oppurtunistic, it was the second vote on you
- what do you think i should be doing here, at this stage of the game, to make my questions *less* shallow
i'm kinda getting the vibe that you dont' like that i'm scumreading you, so you're scumreading me in turn tbh
In post 63, Radical Polaroid wrote:
I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.
I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.
Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.
In what way is this tmi
Is this rhetorical?
No. Why is it tmi?
I don't think it is, you apparently think it is, so i'd like you to explain it to me
In post 111, overseer wrote:
I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.
Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.
TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.
soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you
so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked
I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.
Can you explain how:
- it's unlikely we're a team
- we're tagteaming
At the same time? To me it looks like you're arguing that at once we're not teamed, but we're parterning to push you, which doesnt make sense to me to think at the same time
Yeah tbis checks out, no way in heaven that this is SvS.
Unless Skitter is playing 4D chess and decided to off her partner just so she can win this 4 player Melo. Which tbh is too WIFOM for me so I am going to go with Skitter town, and deserves the w if she is scum
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Post #1305 (isolation #11) » Sun Jul 30, 2023 7:10 pm
Postby DragonEater70 »
Okay so upon some thinking, I believe the no kill means the scum is actually Eiralox. Let me explain:
Alianna explained why scum!her would shoot Eiralox, and I believe her (even though I actually expected scum!Ali to shoot Skitter and then she'd have 2 people to reason with).
Scum!me would shoot Eiralox after seeing that Skitter was willing to lim Alianna. Or I might've shot Skitter and explained why it would make sense for scum!Alianna to do it. I don't think I am good enough yet at playing scum to do it but I might have tried if I were scum.
Scum!Skitter (which is very unlikely) would have shot Eiralox, knowing that both scum!me and scum!Alianna would do it and guaranteeing a 1v1 between us.
But Eiralox on the other hand - shooting Skitter meant that the wagon on Alianna lost momentum, and shooting either me or Alianna would be a weird WIFOM move that would force everyone to reevaluate their reads - which is not something scum!Eiralox wants because they are generally being TR'd right now. Also, They have the perfect motivation to no kill so they can just continue the push on Alianna.
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Post #1311 (isolation #15) » Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:29 pm
Postby DragonEater70 »
Yeah I guess that's true. Fineeee. Like I can see Skitter being confused about me being killed and realizing it might be a bit suspicious, but nobody woud suspect you for a Skitter kill.
My immediate reaction is someone thought that if they killed you, they would be the automatic lim? Ummm give me a bit, I wanna think this through.
i'm worried that it's you/eiralox leaving me alive to misflip alianna for you
I do believe I might do that if I were scum, I mean it would make sense.
But it's also exactly why I suspected Eiralox, because they have the same motivationto do it.
Honestly though the more I think about it the more it feels like a WIFOM situation so I think it's best to try and get reads based on content rather than NK analysis.
And I'll ashamedly admit I haven't than that Eoralox ISO yet. I think I have a few minutes now so let me at least start.
In post 1305, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay so upon some thinking, I believe the no kill means the scum is actually Eiralox. Let me explain:
Alianna explained why scum!her would shoot Eiralox, and I believe her (even though I actually expected scum!Ali to shoot Skitter and then she'd have 2 people to reason with).
Scum!me would shoot Eiralox after seeing that Skitter was willing to lim Alianna. Or I might've shot Skitter and explained why it would make sense for scum!Alianna to do it. I don't think I am good enough yet at playing scum to do it but I might have tried if I were scum.
Scum!Skitter (which is very unlikely) would have shot Eiralox, knowing that both scum!me and scum!Alianna would do it and guaranteeing a 1v1 between us.
But Eiralox on the other hand - shooting Skitter meant that the wagon on Alianna lost momentum, and shooting either me or Alianna would be a weird WIFOM move that would force everyone to reevaluate their reads - which is not something scum!Eiralox wants because they are generally being TR'd right now. Also, They have the perfect motivation to no kill so they can just continue the push on Alianna.
VOTE: Eiralox
This doesn't really feel like a scum vote, I would expect scum!you to play it straight and vote me because it looked yesterday like there would be support for it. I can see it if you want to create WIFOM, though, or if you're worried about suspicion shifting off me and you want to make sure there's another viable target. Hmm.
I didn't understand the part about WIFOM? Like how is voting Eiralox WIFOM in any way?
In post 1306, Eiralox wrote:
Please tell me why I come into the thread like a mad professor with twelve minutes on the clock to make a futile vote on Alianna and announce to everyone that I am in fact not going to kill anyone tonight after all. When I have everything to gain from killing either you or skitter as scum.
I have only one completed game as scum here across alts discounting two where I replaced in and flaked and I'm always amazed at how careless people assume I'll play as scum, not that I really found informed manipulation to my tastes.
If I were scum we wouldn't have reached night phase I feel I'd have agreed with skitter wholly on alianna and slowly and subtly pressured you into joining us by making short but sharp cases to do with tone, by falling back on merlyn's end day one gut call, by spamming posts that I can frame as Alianna being in a pt and being informed due to seemingly not needing that much effort to rezchreads here.
I've done some of it already but as town so....
Your vote is brave, to say the least. I'll still assume you're town.
This does make sense. Scum!you would have had a decent chance of winning it yesterday if you did that, or you could have shifted onto absentee!Wayward and tried to convince skitter, so why didn't you do any of that and hold off on voting until the last minute?
I think I could apply this to Dragon too to some extent. Maybe less though because Wayward wasn't around and Dragon only had a couple of days.
I mean I definitely had time to push a lim on you if I wanted, but I needed to form real reads which is a lot harder.
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Post #1338 (isolation #22) » Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:56 am
Postby DragonEater70 »
Btw I did finally do that ISO, then in the middle of it went into Alianna ISO because of something that interested me there, and my conclusion is that Alianna is ever so slightly closer to her town meta than her scum meta, + she's apparently a JK clear. OTOH Eiralox does have some townie posts but I felt their ISO of my slot was very easy to fake as scum. So I really think it is Eiralox.
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Post #1340 (isolation #24) » Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:59 am
Postby DragonEater70 »
In post 1335, Alianna wrote:
I do think there's some chance it's Eira, but like you said, it's those little things that look town. Fingers crossed.
VOTE: DragonEater70
Can you please tell me in what world does scum!me open the day by voting for Eiralox? Or no kills, for that matter? It doesn't take a genius to realize that Skitter's death would lead to your elimination.
In post 1335, Alianna wrote:
I do think there's some chance it's Eira, but like you said, it's those little things that look town. Fingers crossed.
VOTE: DragonEater70
Can you please tell me in what world does scum!me open the day by voting for Eiralox? Or no kills, for that matter? It doesn't take a genius to realize that Skitter's death would lead to your elimination.
Why would my death lead to her flip
In post 1344, skitter30 wrote:
I would think the opposite - i'm the only person pushing her so if i'm alive she's an option
Okay what I meant was, from a scum!Dragon POV your death would lead to her flip. Eiralox voted her yesterday, scum!Dragon would simply say "huh, she killed the person pushing her to get more breathing room so she's scum" and voila.
In post 1305, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay so upon some thinking, I believe the no kill means the scum is actually Eiralox. Let me explain:
Alianna explained why scum!her would shoot Eiralox, and I believe her (even though I actually expected scum!Ali to shoot Skitter and then she'd have 2 people to reason with).
Scum!me would shoot Eiralox after seeing that Skitter was willing to lim Alianna. Or I might've shot Skitter and explained why it would make sense for scum!Alianna to do it. I don't think I am good enough yet at playing scum to do it but I might have tried if I were scum.
Scum!Skitter (which is very unlikely) would have shot Eiralox, knowing that both scum!me and scum!Alianna would do it and guaranteeing a 1v1 between us.
But Eiralox on the other hand - shooting Skitter meant that the wagon on Alianna lost momentum, and shooting either me or Alianna would be a weird WIFOM move that would force everyone to reevaluate their reads - which is not something scum!Eiralox wants because they are generally being TR'd right now. Also, They have the perfect motivation to no kill so they can just continue the push on Alianna.
VOTE: Eiralox
This doesn't really feel like a scum vote, I would expect scum!you to play it straight and vote me because it looked yesterday like there would be support for it. I can see it if you want to create WIFOM, though, or if you're worried about suspicion shifting off me and you want to make sure there's another viable target. Hmm.
I didn't understand the part about WIFOM? Like how is voting Eiralox WIFOM in any way?
Because I'm paranoid and I can get into a WIFOM spiral over anything. I forget the thought progression for that one.
I see. Did you check out my completed scum game? Or better yet, did you compare my play this game with my play as traitor lover in WDM?
In post 1335, Alianna wrote:
I do think there's some chance it's Eira, but like you said, it's those little things that look town. Fingers crossed.
VOTE: DragonEater70
Can you please tell me in what world does scum!me open the day by voting for Eiralox? Or no kills, for that matter? It doesn't take a genius to realize that Skitter's death would lead to your elimination.
I'm not sure about the vote, maybe so you can make this exact statement, but I don't see how skitter's death leads to my elimination. You even said earlier that it would make my wagon lose momentum, and I see no reason that would be different for you and Eiralox.
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Post #1357 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:41 pm
Postby DragonEater70 »
Okay fair enough. I don't want you to base your entire read around meta, the point was that you said you didn't TR my tone. The difference in tone that I see was that in 2125 I was "prickly" I guess, and in WDM I was trying very hard NOT to be prickly so I felt I came off as much more reserved than usual. Which I don't think I'm doing here but idk.
@Skitter: Why do you say it might be me after all?
I really don't understand how you can think that scum!me would decide to no kill in order to "frame eiralox" rather than do the obvious thing and kill you and then vote for Alianna? Or even do the less obvious thing and kill Eiralox and still vote for Alianna?
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Post #1367 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:09 pm
Postby DragonEater70 »
Okay first of all I suck at nightkill analysis and at WIFOM-y things. Just saying. So take this with a grain of salt.
But I saw that Eiralox voted Alianna at EOD of D4. To me it seemed like they were willing to lim her. Ergo, leaving them alive would easily wind up in an Alianna lim. Furthermore, if scum!me were to kill you, I don't think it would draw any suspicion to me? But it would definitely draw suspicion to me NOT to kill you. I don't think I need to explain why, since I'm currently at E-1 with possible intent to hammer.
Also, I think scum!me wouldn't bother with wifom-y stuff (like I said, I suck at it), and would just say "oh well skitter pushed Alianna so she killed him I guess?" and vote there. And hope that it would convince Eiralox who was willing to vote there anyway.
