Newbie 822: High Life Mafia (Game Over)

[hohum]

Vote: Hoopla

IC scum.

Let's get this wagon going.

[hohum]

O_o

[hohum]

I'm sure hoopla will be delighted to explain why not participating in the random voting stage can be construed as a scum tell, since she's our all knowing IC. I like my vote and I'm going to park it here until something else more interesting happens.

[hohum]

happy birthday BTW (before I get completely belligerent with you)

[hohum]

Is there any reason you're avoiding answering my questions?

They're completely irrelevant to the task of scum hunting. I'm not going to participate. In the interests of creating a friendly atmosphere in a newbie game I'm not going to complain too much but your "Thesp" style of ICing this game is going to quickly irritate me to the point where I'm either going to refuse to participate or push for your lynch (or even a combination of the two).

The rest of the game should feel free to participate and not let my personal opinion get in the way of getting to know one another; however, I'm going to sit quietly on the sidelines. If anyone wants to find out what my experience with this game is they should feel free to do their own research. You can start by clicking the "profile" button in the lower left-hand corner of this post.

The main theory behind random votes is that it means scum must actively choose whether or not to vote their scum-partner, and that avoiding this process in the game is scummy. I contest this on the basis I am creating as much, if not more information than a series of random votes.

I'm glad you pointed out that this is a matter of game theory as well as established practice. I'm also going to take this theory debate one step further and point out that it's (at best) anti-town to go against accepted standards of practice -- as there's no reason for a pro-town player to deviate from such standard local customs. It's a minor scum tell, but it's still a scum tell and I've made a note of it in my logbook accordingly.

[hohum]

I would also encourage each person playing in this game to take notes. You'll find that the scum will start to stand out eventually.

[hohum]

@Hoopla: Also, please stop posting in colors.

[hohum]

moose200x: quite inappropriate. Take the shameless flirting to GD please.

[hohum]

You just told me to shut up.

but I'll answer your question anyways.

GD is the General Discussion forum.

See: Commonly Used Abbreviations

Recommended Newbie Reading:

• Main Wiki Page
  
• Newbie Guide
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
• Mafia Theory

[hohum]

Have a little fun bro! lol

I'm not technically in this game as an IC so I can say what ever I want. If I were you, I'd remember that next time you decide to try and troll-bait me.

I'm having loads of fun sitting here watching you make random/non-game-related posts. Trust me. It's quite lulzy.

[hohum]

Are you being abrasive just for the sole purpose of being abrasive?

Yes. It helps me out scum.

As far as my IC'ing goes, I just didn't want to deviate from standard local customs.

You obviously missed the point. I don't disagree with what you're trying to do. It's a practice that Thesp started in newbie games. But that doesn't mean I have to participate.

I just noted the mod's colour is indigo, so I shall select green.

I know you think you're being cute or whatever, but being an IC doesn't make you special. It just means you're here to help. Seriously. You just need to stop. Okay?

[hohum]

But that doesn't mean I have to participate

It also doesn't mean I'm not going to sit here and call you on your scum tells when you drop them, scum.

[hohum]

consider my abrasiveness a post restriction of sorts. It isn't going to stop.

[hohum]

I use a different colour for all my posts in others games, as it makes it easier reading through the thread to distinguish my posts - I guess in the same way people associate you by avatar. Who knows, maybe it'll catch on. Is it really upsetting you that much?

Yes it really IS that upsetting to me. I don't need you to stand out. I'm perfectly capable of forming my own opinions about your game play. Frankly so far my opinions are largely negative, and I don't know what you're doing claiming IC status at all.

Your posts scream "I WANT ATTENTION!!!"

[hohum]

[hohum]

You're nitpicking details now. Nobody comes into this game with a formulated method of scum hunting. It takes time and experience to develop. What you and everyone else should realize is that everyone has their own method of scum hunting -- this is mine. A pro-town player needs to learn to adapt to the way other people play this game. It's very anti-town to sit there and bitch about it rather than do something productive.

You so far have:

1) Argued theory as opposed to evidence in order to shut me down
2) Made direct appeals to emotion (all: please look up logical fallacies in the wiki articles I quoted earlier)
3) Hidden behind your IC status to introduce misdirection, in that you've made an attempt to justify your actions (lack of random vote, shutting me down for calling you out on it) based on nothing more than your experience level.

I'm *REALLY* liking my vote more and more.

[hohum]

I find you scummy for not agreeing with this accepted code of play.

Don't think that stealthy little OMGUS went unnoticed

[hohum]

Do you SERIOUSLY think I'm scummy because I chose to ask questions and say hello first (something you don't disagree with) instead of making a random vote?

Yes I do. And I come armed with meta (just like you) to prove that scum like you can in fact be caught not participating in the RVS.

I've even tried to give you the BoTD by saying:

it's a minor scum tell

But you just keep at it, and at it. Are we just a TAD over-defensive here?

[hohum]

I've got more examples of RVS scum fail, if you doubt my wisdom after reading that game.

[hohum]

I've got more examples of RVS scum fail, if you doubt my wisdom after reading that game.

I believe you.

But do you think scum fails more than town players in the RVS though? I've looked into something similar before - scum players voting for buddies in the RVS more than random chance would, but didn't find a signifigant difference.

No I really don't. Your subsequent reaction to me; however, is VERY telling.

[hohum]

Unvote, Vote moose200x

Way to overreact.

[hohum]

interesting...

moose200x: react please.

[hohum]

*sigh*

First of all, the two of you arguing back and fourth is contributing nothing useful.

Secondly, Mufasa: what makes you think asking for a claim now was what we wanted?

More to follow after I try and digest this little spat.

[hohum]

Here's the problem with what you just did.

Asking for a claim signals your intent to lynch. We're not going to lynch anyone 3 pages into D1; however by the same token I have no problem piling votes on. His reactions are OMGUSy and the self-hammer certainly didn't help his case any but you signaling your intention to lynch him this early in the game is far scummier than anything he's done in the last couple of pages.

HoS: Mufasa

[hohum]

EBWOP: however by the same token I have no problem piling votes on for pressure.

[hohum]

I thought it would generate SOMETHING!

Why? Did you do something scummy?

[hohum]

I mostly agree with what hoopla said in her last post, except for this:

As far as role-claiming goes, I'm of the opinion that as town you should not claim unless you think it is the only way to prevent your lynch.

The claim process can on occasion garner useful information whether or not the lynchee is to be saved. In fact in most cases the lynchee will be unable to save him or herself. The 2nd overall point was that the claim process was designed to get the town to lynch on a consensus and to prevent a quick lynch from taking place.

Since nothing else is going on I'd appreciate it if everyone took a couple of minutes to reread the last 4 pages and list their top suspects.

Mine are:

Mufasa: for the blatant role fishing
Hoopla: for the reasons stated in the previous 3 pages
moose200x: I haven't decided if your reactionary attitude towards this game is on purpose or not. Please try and make an honest attempt to do some scum hunting.

Everyone else: Mostly a null read so far, but there's been some productive conversation going on so far.

[hohum]

@Mod: I'd appreciate it if you fixed my quote tag in that last post

[hohum]

Vote: Mufasa

[hohum]

"Well, looks like even though moose200x was (insert type of kill here), it seems like the killers are laying low. Either that, or someone did a good job. But still, I fear that they are still out there, trying to distroy the High Life that we are livin'. As long as we stand together, we should not fall."

This might as well be an empty post. Are you going to contribute anything at all this game?

[hohum]

Well, well. Now this is interesting development. Haven't seen this happen yet. The mafia kill must have been blocked by a doctor as i don't imagine them being inactive this much. They made a bad choice and the doc a good one. Good for the town.

Let's be careful about assuming anything. The lack of a NK could be an attempt to draw the doc out. We have 0 information to go on from day one, so we need to do some scum hunting.

@ah: nice OMGUS.

[hohum]

also ah: be carful because your statement reads remarkably like a cop breadcrum to me.

NO CLAIMS! NO SOFT CLAIMS, NO CLAIMS OF ANY KIND

[hohum]

ermmm triple post...

explantion of votes would be nice.

The way you latched on to moose200x was very opportunistic and scummy.

[hohum]

PHANTOM: the lack of reaction to Hoopla's vote is noted.

[hohum]

Mufasa: You need to explain your horrid game play yesterday rather than try and divert attention away from yourself.

[hohum]

Your blatant attempt at role fishing and opportunism was infinitely worse than his belligerent drunk posting. It was quite clear that the intention was simply to pressure him, not to lynch him..

[hohum]

Mufasa: ignoring me won't get me to go away.

[hohum]

Well put hoopla.

[hohum]

also, @Mod: I think prods are in order for lumi and Kyraeu

[hohum]

@mod

see above

[hohum]

After careful consideration I'm convinced that Mufasa is just COMPLETELY clueless and I'm never going to be able to get a good read off of him. Based on that I'm not giving the mafia a free kill by wasting the town's time trying to get him lynched.

Unvote

Vote: AH2190

[hohum]

hohum, would you share your reasoning for voting ah2190?

Not right now.

[hohum]

*sigh* thread stall.

ah2190 gets replaced in all his games and he's only made 1 post in 2 days. If and when he returns to the thread I might place my vote back on him.

For now though:

Unvote, Vote Lumi

[hohum]

I can't tell if you're being serious or trying to be funny. Lynching ah2190 right now is such a ludicrous idea that I can only assume you're trying to be funny.

We should wagon lumi instead. That sounds like a less hilarious and more productive idea.

[hohum]

I'll post a PBPA at some point today.

[hohum]

Vote: PHANTOM

way to vote without reasoning after grilling me for doing the same thing last page.

Hypocrisy much?

I've been somewhat behind on all my games. I'll get a post with more content up shortly.

[hohum]

you're right, I'm bluffing.

I have nothing to go on.

Unvote, Vote Mufasa

I'll stand in line for a mufasa lynch.

[hohum]

Calling Hoopla+Lumi now.

[hohum]

Calling Hoopla+Lumi now.

As town?

you wish.

[hohum]

I'm the doc, I protected kyraeu N1 and I failed to submit a night action N2.

[hohum]

and we're not in mylo. 6 alive currently means 4 alive tomorrow

4:2 means we're in lylo tomorrow not mylo today.

[hohum]

I'm still supportive of a claim though because it's better than sitting here watching paint dry.

[hohum]

hoopla: please post investigation results.

[hohum]

You should post your investigation results because you have innocents on people which gives us confirmed townies with which to narrow the pool.

Vote: Hoopla

There's no reason to hold back investigation results, and I believe you are scum.

[hohum]

you're right, it might have been a better idea to hold onto the results.

yay for not thinking ahead.

You could have just ignored me though

Unvote

for now.

[hohum]

I like having a 2 in 3 chance of hitting scum today.

[hohum]

wait.

How do you know we have a role blocker?

Vote: Hoopla

[hohum]

never mind. I'm being stupid again.

unvote

[hohum]

this game is living proof that a complete lack of any credible information can sometimes be an excellent basis with which to start.

I'm not so mad about the modkill anymore.

[hohum]

I'm going to take a look at the voting patterns of everyone left and post my thoughts after we have a full game again.

[hohum]

Vote: tcold

[hohum]

calling tcold+lumi now.

[hohum]

@ah: now that you're back do you mind claiming, and adding some content to the discussion please?

[hohum]

@Mod:

ah2190 needs to be replaced. He flakes in 100% of his games anyways. I'd rather get someone in here who wants to make an effort.

[hohum]

also has lumi picked up her prod yet?

[hohum]

I want you to pay attention to this game. If you're "not inclined" to post then you need to be replaced.

[hohum]

I'll go along with a lumi lynch. I'm a little concerned about her counterclaiming you but meh.

are you really a circus performer?

[hohum]

this is a mad frustrating game.

Unvote, Vote: Lumi

[hohum]

food for thought

Unvote

I'll analyse and post in a bit

[hohum]

@Mod: please replace ah2190

[hohum]

I tried to adopt a polyphasic sleep schedule about a year ago. I was doing 4 on :20 off.

I learned 2 things

1) You can't drink at all if you have any hope of maintaining that sort of schedule -- not going to happen.

2) It really gets in the way of social functions. "Sorry, gotta disappear 5 times a day for 20 minute naps"

Good luck with that if you're serious about it.

[hohum]

I'm going to go with my original D1 instincts.

Vote: Hoopla

[hohum]

I've got some work to do tonight. I'll respond in the morning.

[hohum]

still like my vote

[hohum]

I'm not entirely sure whose side to take.

I do know that

A) I was initially suspicious of you, so in the absence of something a little more credible than static probabilities coming out of your end as a defense I'll gladly fall back on my original suspicions of you.

B) Ojanen's arguments are quite a bit more well reasoned than yours are.

C) You've done an excellent job of ducking pressure so far. You went from being responsive to me on D1 to simply ignoring me on D2. You've purposefully cultivated your game play so that I can't get a read on you. I don't like that and it's something you need to be lynched for -- win or lose.

[hohum]

@Mod: please replace both ah and tcold

[hohum]

and prod hoopla while you're at it.

[hohum]

and prod hoopla while you're at it.

Easy tiger, I posted yesterday.

You still need prodding.

[hohum]

@Mod:

ah hasn't posted for a little while. can we get another prod and then (hopefully) a replacement?

[hohum]

this thread needs more hoopla lynching.

[hohum]

unvote

I need to reread this game to get some fresh perspective but I don't have time right now

Mod: when is deadline?

[hohum]

@Thok: What do you think about the possibilities of a Hoopla+Thok scum pairing?

[hohum]

@Thok: who do you think the roleblocker is?

[hohum]

Never mind you don't need to answer that question.

Look,

Here's my main problem with hoopla (and Ojanen made a very good point here earlier)

After I claimed hoopla chimed in with a very convenient claim, and then started to speculate about the existence of a role blocker ad nauseam until Ojanen replaced in and pointed out the possibility that she could be fake claiming cop.

So I have to sit here and ask myself what's more likely? A) An experienced player like her simply didn't think the claim through to endgame or B) She knows for a fact that there's a roleblocker in game.

My experience tells me that the latter is more likely the case.

[hohum]

Vote Hoopla

[hohum]

Never mind you don't need to answer that question.

Look,

Here's my main problem with hoopla (and Ojanen made a very good point here earlier)

After I claimed hoopla chimed in with a very convenient claim, and then started to speculate about the existence of a role blocker ad nauseam until Ojanen replaced in and pointed out the possibility that she could be fake claiming cop.

So I have to sit here and ask myself what's more likely? A) An experienced player like her simply didn't think the claim through to endgame or B) She knows for a fact that there's a roleblocker in game.

My experience tells me that the latter is more likely the case.

If I am a cop, I

know

there is a scum roleblocker, which is why I was speculating. But your two-option scenario doesn't really make sense - if I know for a fact there roleblocker, it means I am a cop and we're in the Goon/RB/Cop/Doc set-up due to you being confirmed, and myself knowing I am a cop.

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies <-- there's a possibility that we're in this setup and you're fake claiming.

[hohum]

After the N1 no-kill

So you no longer think Kyraeu is cleared?

[hohum]

@ Kyraeu: please unvote thok and vote hoopla

[hohum]

I'm not denying this possibility. I was talking about your logic (in bold) and how it doesn't make any sense. I was saying your option B means I am a cop. Because the only way there can possibly be a roleblocker in the game is if I am truthful.

You seem to be missing the fact that scum can (and probably do) also know that there's a role blocker. The cop is claim is a really convenient claim in that light.

I assume your question is probing for some sort of contradiction, but I don't see one. How was I to know who was targetted on N1? It could have been me, it could have been anyone.

I interpret the fact that you emphatically stated that there was a no-kill N1 as a scum slip, because I personally think it's more likely that the doc protection succeeded and you've as much as said the same at one point.

You're being really frustrating.

Not a valid defense.

[hohum]

Ojanen: please provide a link to that game.

[hohum]

I'm going to refrain from play for a while. My judgment is way off lately