Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

[hitogoroshi]

/confirm

Sorry for the delay. As the game wasn't open when I got my role PM, I assumed I'd get a PM saying when it started.

Looking forward to playing with you all.

just me Annachie
DarthRandal1138
Dondero
Annachie 1 Pyrogen
xvart
Pyrogen 1 just me
hitogoroshi 2 Dondero xvart
startransmission 1 DarthRandal1138
fhqwhgads 1 startransmission

No Lynch 1


Not Voting

hitogoroshi
fhqwhgads

[hitogoroshi]

Also, as an SE, I would very much like to advocate in favor of capital letters / punctuation / complete sentences. Pretty we're going to be quoting quotes and responding, and if the posts are chat-room quality instead of messageboard quality it becomes an enormous pain to read.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh wow, that was disgusting OMGUS right there. And I'm sorry, but your 'system' doesn't make sense. That's not a scumtell at all.

And I thought your previous posts warning not to lynch were just a 'conversation trap'?

Listen to me. This is a newbie game. It's alright to make mistakes or post unclear things, but you say 'oh, I'm sorry, I meant X' not leap down the throat of whoever's trying to correct you!

I don't think Darth should have voted you for that - there were easier ways to prove that point, but you

definitely

shouldn't have voted for him there and he is certainly not "level two suspicious" (I laughed out loud saying that). Think about it, get some perspective.

[hitogoroshi]

Yes sir: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... reviations

[hitogoroshi]

Other than Just Me and Dondero, I would have to look at Pyro and DarthRandal and Xvart purely because they lead the 'unvote' count. (I got told that vote hopping is a sign of scum, and my massive 1 game experience seems to back this up)

Actually, vote hopping can be a sign of town as well. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's more often a town-tell than a scum tell. Scum, after all, aren't worrying about mislynching, and they never have second thoughts about someone's alignment. Figuring out whether vote hopping is town or scum is kind of an art, but there are some tricks. I don't want to explicitly say my criterion - because after all, scum can read just as much as town - but generally townies vote hop to pressure and scum vote hop as a reaction.

In the early early game, though, it's really more of a null tell than anything. Seeing as a bandwagon hasn't formed on anyone, voting is incredibly low cost (because it doesn't really stand a chance of getting someone lynched unless you post a strong case along with it.) That's why the RVS can be random.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, that's true. One meta-strategy is "Lynch All Liars" (wiki it) and while I don't follow that extreme, people who lie to save face (Oh no, I didn't REALLY over-react, I was just testing you!) get lynched quickly and rightly. Scum could just do that strategy against any accusation if town didn't lynch for it.

[hitogoroshi]

I aware I'm going back in time a bit, but bear with me, I only just formed a coherent opinion on this.

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much.

Hmm. now that's some wird argueing. My original vote on Just Me and suspicion of you go back to Just Me's first two posts. To me the way his first vote went just strenghtened my opinion. SOmething I explained in my vote post.


I think you should go back and look at my first 4 posts.
#1: Saying Hi. First player post in thread too
#2: Response to StartTransmission random vote
#3: Comment on lynching, explained further in a subsequent post
#4: Questions for Just Me

I like your little Laurel and Hardy bit, and your twisted logic. Both of which could be scumtells of their own.

How the hell is the "Laurel and Hardy" bit possibly a scumtell? And how is this -

Since my theory is that both of them are scum.

unvote Just Me
vote Dondero

Justified in any way? It's five pages in. Are you really thinking you've found a scumpair? You said your 'main suspicions' were laid out in post five, the relevant part re:Dondero being

To me it sounds like you're one of the scum and that you knew that the replacement was going to be the other.
Then you voted for the fist person that Dondero (The eventual replacement) pointed a finger at while appearing to be random about it. Trying too hard to appear random in my opinion.

Vote just me

Is that seriously - SERROUSLY - why you're voting Dondero? Because Justme voted someone that Dondero was skeptical about, ergo, they are both scum? Please tell me there's some other part to this whole mess I'm missing.

[hitogoroshi]

No, because the entire bit he's referring to isn't a scumtell! Donderro is saying "You're referring to me FOSing but not voting pyro, and justme voting pyro. That's not any sort of scumtell, thus, we'd have to be a pretty inept scumpair to do that!" The crucial difference is that the initial thing that's being 'attacked' actually has no bearing on alignment. Unless you think the random vote WAS actually a calculated response to Don's FOS, in which case, uh, what? that doesn't make sense.

[hitogoroshi]

Given that I think that Just Me managed to

out both himself and Dondero

I find it funny that Dondero described him and Just Me as Laurel and Hardy.

See, it's this again. If you think that what transpired clearly "outed" Dondero and Justme as a scumpair, well, uh, you're completely wrong. Please see/respond to my last post.

[hitogoroshi]

Strangely, Hitogoroshi, neither the post to which you refer nor this most recent one actually address the parts that make me think that the way I do. The parts you refered too just add to my suspicion.

I was referring to this post, your fifth post:

This is my second game. The first game mafia/warewolf game I played is on another site, and in day 4. We managed to get all 3 power roles killed by night 2. (Yes we lynched one with the first vote)

As I said before, we need info, and forcing people to vote gives us that info.

Speaking of which:

Just Me, I'm still suspicious of your concern reguarding voting before the replacement was confirmed. For that matter you never really explained you're concern and then voted despite saying that we should wait a few (real) days yet before voting.
To me it sounds like you're one of the scum and that you knew that the replacement was going to be the other.
Then you voted for the fist person that Dondero (The eventual replacement) pointed a finger at while appearing to be random about it. Trying too hard to appear random in my opinion.

Vote just me

And as you said yourself:

iirc, I laid out my main suspicions in my fifth(?) post and for the moment, still stand by them.

If there's another post that 'address the parts that make you think the way you do', pray tell, where is it?

Given that little else is making me suspicious at the moment I see little reason to change a vote until something more definate happens.

Pressure voting is "There is this comment of yours I don't like, and I'm voting you to add some weight to my demands for explanation." Pressure voting is not "since it's the start of the game I'm going to take a single piece of 'evidence' that is more likely to be a coincidence that anything and use this to declare I've found a scum pair.'

Though perhaps I should wonder at you saying that I'm completely wrong, since only 3 people (Besides Starkmoon herself) would know for certain.

Look at the sentence I posted again.

If you think that what transpired clearly "outed" Dondero and Justme as a scumpair, well, uh, you're completely wrong.

I wasn't saying anything about whether or not Dondero or Justme are scum or not, I'm saying it is far too early and your 'case' as it were is so pathetically weak that you cannot be as certain as you are claiming to be. I continue to hold the position that you are completely wrong to be

making the claims you are making based off of the evidence you have.

. That has nothing to do with whatever alignments Dondero or Justme may hold.

Hitogoroshi, I notice that you have yet to actually cast a vote, random or otherwise.
(The last vote cast by anyone was Wednesday or about 90 hours ago)

I got here quite a bit later than the rest of you, and it seemed to be that the rvs had already ended. As for the 'otherwise', that's more of my meta - I don't pressure vote but scumhunt more conversationally, and only voting for people I'm comfortable lynching. I'm working on being a bit more free with my voting but as it remains that's how I play. I don't think I've cast more than 3 votes on any day in any mafiascum game I've played.

Seriously, though, Annachie. You do not - do not - do not do not do not do not - have any sort of case where you can be comfortable saying:

Given that I think that Just Me

managed to out both himself and Dondero

I find it funny that Dondero described him and Just Me as Laurel and Hardy.

(Once again, emphasis mine)

xvart, if that didn't clarify my position, I'd be happy to go into any parts in more depth.

[hitogoroshi]

While that's certainly true, xvart, I'd like to add an important caveat - it is incredibly important not to babble. Activity in the beginning of the game is pro-town, but talking for the sake of talking only helps scum.

Of course, this also makes it a bit of a nasty cycle because if no one is posting content no one can comment on it. :/

[hitogoroshi]

Ah, xvart took my objection! (I can't fault him for it, I haven't posted here in a few days.) But yeah, the length of time we wait for the replacement means nothing.

And quite honestly the replacements first post won't matter quite so much. When you get later into a game, there are a bunch of mines that a replacement could step on, but nothing of major significance has really happened in this game and as such the replacement is almost more like a delayed player here. Don hasn't really done or said anything of significance. (And no, the 'Laurel and Hardy' bit is not WIFOM, because that connection between the two posts was essentially random and was only defined by annachie for who knows what reason.)

[hitogoroshi]

Once again, Pyro, I'd just like to re-iterate that it's perfectly all right you admit you made a mistake but very scummy to lie. It just seems to me you mis-interpreted the power rule distribution and you're trying to simultaneously defend your initial conclusion while downplaying it's significance. This is a newbie game, and it's okay to be a newbie. But lying to save face is still lying, and when posts give off those cues it really sets off my scum senses.

[hitogoroshi]

We have kind of the same small clique actively posting. fgads, pyro, xvart, anna, and myself. (Okay, so I'm stretching adding myself...it's the privledge I get being the list-maker.) I want to hear from the rest of you.

Anna is still a man, Pyro.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm here! Sorry, I have three tests today (that I've been studying for) and my other mafia game has also peaked in activity quite a bit so it's resulted in me paying less attention to this one.

I'll try to dissect the walls of text very soon. But the short version - I've seen a lot of newbieness but nothing that I could easily call "scummy" and not "newbie". As such, I haven't tried to 'scum hunt' in any fashion for these nine pages (also remembering that many of these posts have been activity bump sort of posts.) The most I've done is a.) try to dissuade Annachie from holding steadfastly to a non-case and b.) gently telling Pyro that I think he's lying to save face and should he do it in the future my scum-dar will simply file it under 'lying.' So, basicially, while I obviously disagree with your vote I completely understand it and I'll try to earn it away by responding to whatever content is hopefully locked inside those walls of text.

[hitogoroshi]

Well, again, it's been the same waffling back and worth. There are a lot of words being said but not that many fundamental points. Arguing with that just gives us a mess like we had with Pyrogen. But there are a few things that stick out at me:

I like HackerHuck's post. I don't agree with everything, but he's definitely doing good work shaking Dondero's stigma. Until this:

Why is being IC worthy of a vote and out of all the people not scumhunting, why him?

In fact, I'm going to Vote: Hitogoroshi for a similar reason.

So, you're calling him out for singling out someone specific and then you do the same? And to top it off, this comes right after complaining that we need to get our act together and vote together? Pot, meet kettle.

I think he meant that the vote should go to someone not posting content, and I've probably posted the least out of anyone here thus far. Again, as I said, I completely understand HackerHuck's rationale for voting for me.

In summary, I think there is an interesting relationship between Pyrogen and Annachie, and would be satisfied lynching either one. If we do not end up lynching either one, I hope that we investigate them further because I suspect at least one of them is mafia.

I didn't quite agree at first, but posts 215 and 218 strikes me as incredibly poor-form busing. If Pyro is scum, I'd probably be willing to lynch Anna tomorrow.

Also, regarding post 218:

Hiro seems to be actively lurking, as evidenced by his post 34 minutes after being called out.

*Hito. And that's not active lurking. Active lurking is posting a lot but avoiding content. An example of being in active lurking mode:

Secondly, what content is needed? I think I have two people pegged as mafia scum, have laid out my reasoning, and am yet to see anything to change my mind. So really I'm in reading/avoid prodding mode.

Reading/avoiding prodding mode is the definition of active lurking. I was not posting - passive lurking - though I was reading the topic - hence the quick response. I wasn't posting because it's quick and easy to read but it takes time to write up a post. I'm not at all defending it's a bad thing to lurk, but as I personally believe that active lurking is more scummy than passive lurking - and, as such, why I don't post babble if I can't take the time to post real content - so I want to clear that up.

And to reiterate, xvart is indeed right - a lynch, random or otherwise, is better than a no-lynch. There are some circumstances where a no-lynch can be helpful - notably, if the potential lynch-ees are un-CC'ed power roles - but in a newbie game with as much waffle as this, a lynch is exactly what we need to get some definitive information.

I'll be voting Pyro on deadline unless the bandwagon balance shifts to someone else.

[hitogoroshi]

What?

1. If I didn't want to be seen as the hammer I bloody well wouldn't say "I intend to hammer!"
2. This one could potentially happen, though I'd hope someone else on the town would catch me if I did that.
3. If I wanted to do that, I'd prime by at least suggesting someone else's name in my post. If I wanted the votes to shift declaring that I would hammer Pyro would be about one of the worst things I could do.

[hitogoroshi]

Well, here we are.

Vote: Pyrogen

[hitogoroshi]

Kill-kill, link us to a game where you were town, please.

Anna, attacking your attacker is hardly helpful. As a matter of fact, he did NOT vote for you; he merely posted a single critical paragraph regarding your actions. Regardless of your alignment, your response here was paranoid and extremely anti-town. Especially this line:

What is this, you're going to vote for me before I log in and press you on anything?

Beyond the fact that paranoia (here, the fact that you assumed he cast a vote) is, in my books, a scum tell, this is a messed up values system. Your statement here could be translated as: "You're going to vote me before I can attack you?" Scum defend themselves by attacking their attackers, because they don't care who gets lynched. It's not an activity townies should engage in.

[hitogoroshi]

Hitogoroshi's hammer looks a bit scummy, but there are some mitigating factors. He was egged on by Annachie and we were approaching deadline, so it's a little harder to read.

Not the first. To be quite frank, I tend to be overly conservative with my vote (trying to be a bit more free with it, but it's a work in progress) and quite frankly I'm not going to commit a hammer vote because I'm 'egged on' unless I have an extremely strong town read on the person requesting it. It was the second. The numbers simply conspire against us if we don't lynch someone. As I said before, I'll really only support a D1 no-lynch if the town ends up bandwagoning an un-CC'ed power role.
More importantly, when I said I would hammer at deadline, it would be incredibly anti-town for me to do otherwise, unless Pyro claimed a town PR.

[hitogoroshi]

Annachie, that's why I said 'regardless of alignment.' I'm not saying that it's a clear scumtell, I'm saying that it's anti-town behavior and you should stop it. :/

And my simple reason for doing such is conversation purposes. Why cut the game off when I could hammer five hours late? I knew I would be online in time to hammer, but since no one in the game did (and would perhaps want to hammer earlier) it only makes sense to broadcast such. It also gave one more clear signal of "Pyro, this is zero-hour, claim if you're a PR."

[hitogoroshi]

Can I link to games in which I am dead, but the game itself is not over, or is that "discussing an on-going game"?

I

believe

that's considered kosher, but *please* don't take my word for it. We may want to wait on Word of Mod on that, but I *would* still like a link to your completed game, as well as a link to a "town" game once you get the go-ahead.

Actually I think it's non-kosher. As far as I know the rule is a flat, "No linking to current games" edict.

DarthRandal - What do you think about KillKill's "all scum all the time" play style?

(I'm going to answer this question too!)

Didn't see a problem with it at first, but the fact he's only completed one game as town worries me. Players who have to slip that in usually do so after being mis-lynched multiple times while legitimately scumhunting. But after a scant few games? I'd really like to hear the rationale for this one.

[hitogoroshi]

Well this game is quiet.

I'll go ahead and

Vote:Hackerhuck

until he posts his analysis. I think we need to be a bit more loose with our votes to force scum to participate.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm not sure how to take this. On the one hand, I'm pleased that Hitogoroshi has decided to vote before we're up against a deadline, but I'm obviously not happy with his decision. I don't see a case, so was this some kind of a pressure vote or do you actually believe that I'm scum?

Neither of these. I just noticed that, seeing as you've been here since 06, this would be a good opportunity to keep you honest. I haven't posted too much in this topic; I'd be an easy target to bandwagon. I figured that throwing out an unsubstantiated vote would make me tempting for scum to go after. Apparently, neither you nor anyone else went for it. Of course, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence (or to put it another way, someone here has to be scum) but I certainly don't have particular reason to think you're scum and that vote has served it's purpose, so

unvote

.

Hacker, if you know who BM is, you know who I'm trying to emulate to stir discussion.

[hitogoroshi]

I would also like to hear what the IC and SE have to say about Annachie's reasoning based on the replacement stuff, from a learning experience perspective because I have a hard time holding kill-kill and hackerhuck to the same standard as the previous players. How do you guys typically handle these situations?

Dondero did basicially nothing before being replaced, so I don't think there's anything that Hackerhuck COULD be held responsible for. As for justme, we can use his D1 actions at least to some extent, but if you want to talk about those you better use supporting quotes and be clear why it's an alignment tell and not a quirk of the old person.

Speaking of which. Annachie, please list the three scummiest things about kill-kill/justme (with the caveat from the previous paragraph).

[hitogoroshi]

I'd like to point out that deliberation about the nk is basicially null if the IC is killed. A lot of newbies like to go for the IC n1 because they don't really have an idea who to kill and the fact that there's only one IC, who is supposedly the best player, appeals to them. This is common enough that most players know about it, which means that many experienced players also go for the IC in order to supply a minimum of information. So basicially if the IC is killed, it's usually a null tell, and if the IC survives it's a slight scum tell .

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I'm never quite sure how to get these cycles to end. You need something definitive to comment on but something definitive is exactly what you can't get when the pace is so glacial.

Tempted to just hammer kill-kill to make something happen.

[hitogoroshi]

That was a very funny way to put it, Darth. Just imagine me saying the same thing except instead of being funny I'm just saying a bunch of obscenities toward startransmission.

[hitogoroshi]

Alright, ladies and gents, this is LYLO. No one vote for ANYONE without first screening it by the town - if you accidentally put your vote on a townie the two scum and jump on and win.

First, massclaim. Annachie, claim your role and then pick the next player to claim. ST has already claimed vanilla townie. I want absolutely NO discussion of anything until this happens. I realize this seems arbitrary for me to impose, but the thing about mass claiming is that you need to do it by surprise and not give the scum a chance to try to signal what claims to do. I will gladly explain my rationale in more detail when the massclaim has concluded.

[hitogoroshi]

Pick who you want to claim next, HH.

[hitogoroshi]

Vanilla townie.

Xvart.

[hitogoroshi]

It's simple, really. If we mis-lynch, we lose. As such, there's really no reason for scum NOT to claim doctor if a wagon builds on them, because the night actions disproving their claim won't matter because the town will have lost. More importantly, there's no reason for a pro-town role to hide now. This surprise mass-claim was mostly just to take a tool out of the scum toolbox, since now no one can claim a power role to save their skin.

There was also the chance that the scum discussed the idea of claiming a town PR during night chat and that they would do so NOW. This is unlikely to work on people who've played before, so I picked one of the complete newbies for my first mass-claim choice, more or less at random.

It also sets the adversarial tone that quite frankly we need today. This is the time to hunt scum, not to casually float around ideas, and I think starting with a surprise mass-claim has the same effect as being yelled awake by a drill instructor - you know today isn't going to be a happy, fun day. (That's not to say I want to make the game of mafia not fun for people to play! But I don't intend to be nearly as friendly today as I usually am. )

[hitogoroshi]

Hacker - that's a good point about faking a cop claim. I hadn't thought about that one, and I'll definitely keep it in mind in the future.

The main reason I didn't claim myself is, as I said before, I was hoping to get scum to claim a power role. Didn't expect them to, but it would have been an nice way to blow open this day from the get-go.

And yeah, you normally should not claim at all until there is a consensus - in non-newbie games. But when it's five person LYLO with only two possible PR's, that changes things. (More importantly, I knew we didn't have 2 PR's because 5 people - 2 scum - ST's vanilla claim - my knowledge of self-vanilla = only possible PR.)

And I obviously agree, HH - with two scum I know that at least one of star, xvart, and anna have to be scum. I'm leaning xvart for first lynch, but not by much, and that's what today is for.

[hitogoroshi]

Woah. I'm not sure I like the fact that you two have already divided the town into two separate groups: you two and the rest of us. Especially since both of you seem to think that one of us is scum. That means that both of you must admit that one of you could possibly be scum, so you have already potentially set up a alliance with a scum member; which would play right into the hands of the mafia. If you two vote the same way (seems likely right now), and there is one scum member in the three you listed you have just lost the game for the town. Are you both so confident that the other is town? You two do seem rather buddy buddy in the opening of this day; and while that may seem bold for both of you to so obviously be pairing up together if you both were mafia; so I would lean towards the person that agreed with the first suspect list: hitogoroshi.

What? I was just pointing out that, seeing as I know I'm town, I'm 100% certain there's scum on that list. Hence the 'obviously'. IF HH is town the same is true for him.

Then why wouldn't you have picked the person you most likely thought was scum instead? I would think you would have picked me since I am the leading contender in your eyes. By picking the person you thought was most likely scum you would have been sure to set the trap if the mafia had discussed it beforehand, since the first person would not be able to safely claim a role for fear that the real role would also reveal himself. So, why didn't you pick me to go first if you think I am the most scummy?

Anna seemed like the one who would be most likely to fake-claim as scum.

I'm leaning xvart for first lynch, but not by much, and that's what today is for.

And why is that? I'm especially curious since you seemed pretty perturbed at startransmission, as we all were, for his hammer drop:

That was a very funny way to put it, Darth. Just imagine me saying the same thing except instead of being funny I'm just saying a bunch of obscenities toward startransmission.

What happened overnight that put me ahead of the pack?

FoS: hitogoroshi

How about everyone else list their suspect list, since you two already have?

Nothing happened, man. I just thought I'd post a little barb and see how jumpy you were. My reason for disliking star is obvious - the hammer drop - and I'm sure he's going to address that issue because we'll lynch him if he doesn't. He has content impending, in other words, and since you don't particularly have anything to answer for we have to follow more unconventional means. It's pressure voting without the vote because obviously, one mis-vote can mean a town loss. Of course, being jumpy is really a scum-tell in a newbie game - most newbies are jumpy, but it's still something to note.

I haven't posted anything like a suspicion list and nor do I intend to. Half of you are scum so it's a little pointless to sub-divide.

[hitogoroshi]

hito - I'm just saying that it puts the town in a precarious situation as I see the division (or not necessarily a division, but the obvious agreement between you and HH) to be easily manipulated by the scum into getting a lynch in their favor, especially if there is a scum on both sides of the aisle.

All I'm saying is I'm not comfortable with you two only looking at the three of us. We've been worked by the mafia so far, so I'm not ruling out anyone. The fact that the two of you are focusing on only three people (the same three people) right out of the gate is a big concern to me.

Once again, the point I am making is that there is NO agreement between HH and I - but with these small numbers,

even if HH is scum there is still an 100% chance that at least one of you, Anna, and Star are scum.

There's no division to be had here.

The other part I want to think about is the final vote counts:

If HH is scum, then he has managed to not vote the lynch in both votes.
If Hito is scum, then he hammered one lynch and not voted the second.
If Xvart is scum, then he voted in both lynches, persuaded me to vote in one (Though Pyro did more of that himself). Started one and voted 2nd. Not normally scumy vote spots from what I understand.
If Star is scum, then his hammer drops him in it a little, and he was involved in both lynches.

My gut read then is HH and Hito for avoiding votes. (HH's one final vote was on Hito)

Anna, add yourself onto that list. In the form of, "If I am scum, then...".

I don't believe that both scum could have avoided being on both lynch trains; if that is the case, I'm going to feel really bamboozled after this is over. I'm going to think more on these voting patterns, such as they are.

This is normally a pretty good line of thought. I think it's a bit mitigated here because of the odd circumstances of this particular game, but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

[hitogoroshi]

Yes, but none of us can be so certain that you're town. What I'm saying is, how do YOU think the end of day votes paint you?

[hitogoroshi]

It won't work as a logic puzzle, because we obviously can't build a single composite list (there would be no one on it!) But you have the right idea in that, if you know you're town, at least one of HH, ST, and I must be scum.

And of course our 'lists' are identical - that was the entire point of the comment! I do think HH is least likely scum, and so we can work together to nail scum - even while we suspect the other. If he pings my scumdar this will change, but for now, if I have to pick someone to scum-hunt with it's HH.

[hitogoroshi]

ಠ_ಠ

Do you realize the scum need only one town vote on a townie to win? And you're not trying to start a ****ing wagon? YOU ARE THE WAGON.

It's kind of hard not to judge you for dropping a vote at an incredibly inopportune time when you try to make that your new habit.

I would counter-vote you but if you're a townie I'd be making the same mistake you are.

Anna, the fact is that there are many reasons to nk someone and out thinking the scum in a non-PR situation is largely moot. They may not be choosing randomly but with enough factors their decision may as well be random from our perspective.

I can understand you wanting to focus on the votes (because they exonerate you the most ) but this is a time for good old-fashioned scumhunting.

I'll post more later tonight when I have time.

[hitogoroshi]

The thing I wanted to look at I mentioned in my last post -

I did not opportunistically hammer D1, I called it out ahead of time to ensure we avoided a no lynch and Anna responded with this:

Why?

1: You don't want to be seen as the hammer, a scummy spot.
2: You don't want Pyro lynched and are trying to avoid someone else placing the 5th vote so that when you 'convienently' forget to vote we get a no-lynch instead.
3: You are trying some weird psych thing to get the votes to shift.

Number 2 in particular suggests you knew the exact reasoning behind why I called out and later followed through with the hammer. Yet, now, it's a scum point (or quantum of suspicion) against me. When did that change, exactly?

[hitogoroshi]

Star that is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. You don't think they will co-ordinate a quicklynch to distance themselves from you -- despite the fact they win if they co-ordinate a quicklynch??? And saying that I need to be at L-1 before scum can pounce shows an understanding that there already one scum voting for me.

You have one post before I vote you. go.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, don't tell me star AND anna were town...that would have to be some sort of record...

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I'd like to see the quick topic.

Really though? Townies put me to L-1? :/