Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

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Hey! Pleasure to join you all.

So...

Vote: fgads

Is that an acceptable shortcut to call you?

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So what does everyone else think about the Day-1 no lynch?

I think it's a disaster.

Only one group benefits from a no lynch, and that's the mafia. A no lynch means no investigation, and no investigation means no results. If we resolve to lynch someone today that puts pressure on scum to post, and to appear towny. Having a deadline for a (certain) lynch places pressure, and pressure brings results.

If you're worried about a mislynch, know that one is very likely on day 1. But even a mislynch gives us information, while a no lynch gives us none.

Another way to think about it- a no lynch gives us a 0% chance of identifying and lynching scum. Whereas a certain lynch gives us a 22% chance of lynching scum. A lynch is in our favor no matter how you look at it. If we aren't actively scumhunting with the intent to lynch who is scummiest, then what are we doing?

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Damn, this game is moving along at an impressive rate.

Very much here, I will soon post on stuff. Sorry guys, this part of the week is bad for me. Work and football and too much booze.

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This has been a hellish week, and I'm falling behind in all my games. I apologize, and I'll be in full from shortly. I'm caught up on reading (I know I know, active lurking) but haven't had the time to focus in on responding. That's soon to change, and again, I apologize.

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Ok, so where to begin. I'll jump in with a little player analysis. I know DarthRandal has just done this, but it's probably the best for me in order to crystallize my thoughts on the game so far, and something for you all to respond to. A lot that I'm going to say has been covered to death, I just want to throw my two cents in.

Pyrogen

- I'll start here as I find Pyro the most erratic player. I didn't like his vote for a no-lynch, only to say later that the no-lynch vote was in the spirit of the RVS. I especially didn't like it because later he says that his vote for a no lynch was in the spirit of the RVS- which he said earlier was "unfair". Contradictory and smacks of back peddling, especially as he posted more than once about how a no-lynch favors town, but as soon as the IC and the SEs respond otherwise his tune changes. Says he stuck with the no-lynch to inspire conversaton. The "for the sake of conversation" bit is employed by him again in the future.

I'm not a big fan of his "system" or the conversation surrounding it, but I see where he's coming from. He was attacked for it, and I thought he explained his PoV pretty well.

I really really hate his self vote and prompt unvote. For the sake of a bandwagon that didn't exist even after that post? The worst bit was the "am I a suitable lynch today?". He says this was designed to improve his play. Frankly we're not here as an exercise to help him improve his play, we're here to lynch scum. If he wants to get better at the game then fulfill the role you were given as best you can. This post is a distraction, and a possible bluff.

Says (emphatically) in post 77 that he never wanted a no lynch. Again, contradicting himself and sending mixed messages. For the sake of conversation, no doubt.

I enjoy the debate with fgads, a lot of good stuff is brought up there, and I think Pyro explained himself decently.

@Pyro, all in all I think I have to agree with others and consider you an overeager townie. Your "gambits" are reckless and distracting. I give them credit for driving conversation, but I fear that the direction of the conversation isn't necessarily helpful. IGMEOY.

Annachie

- Does quite a bit of fence sitting early on regarding a no lynch. Makes some decent points, but mostly asks good questions to get a feel for things. Strikes me as a townie dipping his toe in the water. I would like to point out his post 103 though, it shows good perception on his part.

xvart

- It's Tim Allen. So, starts off attacking Pyro for the no-lynch, so it's not really a random vote. However as soon as Pyro responds to the vote he moves it to somebody who hasn't voted. I don't know if I like the move from a reasoned vote to a random vote. No matter, he unvotes him soon enough and asks some questions of Annachie which were fair.

Reacts to Pyros self vote, and I agree with his post 70. A lot of the subsequent posts had to do with his (understandable) confusion regarding Pyros motives. Gets frustrated with this (and I assume other things in general) and calls out Pyro for being more of a distraction than anything. When I started reading his post 109 alarm bells went off. It occurred to me that whenever Pyro posted something questionable, xvart asked him about it and accepted whatever the response was. It felt like xvert was maybe attempting to diffuse any potential scum tells. Post 109 struck me as either xvert the scumbuddy finally getting fed up with Pyros high profile, or xvert the townie... well finally getting fed up with Pyro's play style. The fact that the post resulted in a vote has me leaning towards xvert being town. But I'm not too sure.

Crap, this is turning out to be more wordy than I'd hoped. I'll get to the rest of you in a few hours, and I'll try to keep it more concise. With the exception of two of you the rest of my summaries should be pretty brief.

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fgads

- Our illustrious IC. Good posting, I liked his debate with Pyro. His posts have good content, and he asks good questions. Right now I'm leaning town.

DarthRandal

- I agree with his posts beat for beat. For being a first time player I'm impressed with his ability. He seems confident, and like I said I agree with virtually everything he's said. Except for voting me because his D9 told him to. That really steams me up.

Dondero

- Not much to analyze. His play is pretty consistent with a newbie- asks questions, sits back a little. Of course there is the matter of the Laurel and Hardy bit. I'm not as swayed by that as annachie is, but it is definitely WIFOM. This doesn't by any means lead to believe that he is definite scum, but it puts him on my radar. The fact that he's clammed up since it was pointed out doesn't do him any favors.

hitogoroshi

- Pretty quiet early in the game, didn't really get engaged with a debate until the Dondero WIFOM thing came up. I agree with him that annachie is presenting a weak case by calling justme and Dondero scumbuddies, but I don't like how vehemently he is attacking annachies vote against Dondero. While annachie declaring justme and Dondero partners is seriously jumping the gun, I think his vote is appropriate.

just me

- Another newbie, and I see nothing terribly scummy. xvarts comment about just me waiting for a wagon is interesting, especially when he unvoted Pyro when it appeared a wagon wasn't going to form easily.

I know a lot of this stuff is obvious and has already discussed, but I wanted to put down where I'm at. I'm going to try and boil down who my primary suspect is, right now I'm torn between Dondero and Pyro. Both haven't posted since I jumped in, so I'll need to see more before I throw an FoS anywhere.

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Also, there hasn't been much discussion since my semi-absence.

Y'all need to talk more.

Really? What do you make of my and xvarts analysis? You also haven't weighed in on hito and annachie's debate over the WIFOM that Dondero presented. Or the wagon against Dondero because of it.

And the "but I won't reveal them yet" is a cop out. Is this for the sake of conversation, yet again?

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^I'm in the same boat.

@ Pyro, thank you for ignoring my questions. And if you're going to cast suspicion on fgads based off of a meta, would you mind linking the game(s) that lead you to think he is acting scummy here?

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I like xvarts post 164, some good points are brought up, especially that last one regarding Pyros roleblocker comment.

Where have you gone Pyro? The game has slowed down to a crawl as we wait for a replacement for Dondero. You were extremely active earlier, and now nothing. I've asked you a couple harmless questions, and you ignore them. You say that fgads is too cautious to be town, but when asked for a meta or even an explanation you stay quiet. I had a hard time reading you, and I gave your erratic behavior the benefit of the doubt in my early analysis. But right now I'm not so sure, and I'd like to hear more from you.

Unvote, Vote: Pyrogen

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Ok, sorry I've been quiet... again. We have a week left, and I'll be much more active.

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My vote sticks. I've been swamped the last couple of days, but in the next few hours I hope to address some things that have come up.

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Pyro - I understand a lot of what he's saying, but I get the feeling that he's being deliberately difficult. I think his original trap move of pushing for the no-lynch is pretty bold for a scum, but newbies tend to act unpredictably. I wouldn't be opposed to his lynch, but he's not the top of my list.

That sums up my feelings on Pyro pretty well. I don't think him pushing for a no-lynch was a trap at all. He seems to be trying every scum move in the book, and when called on it he pulls out an explanation that ends up being rather contradictory.

Hitogoroshi's defence of the Donderro/JustMe pairing comments seem rather odd to me. I'll need to follow up on this...

Please do. I saw what he was saying (though I disagreed) but it did strike me that he was focused on it a bit much.

[quote="HackerHuck"Startransmission makes a decent stab at analysis, but he doesn't remember who he's voting for and fails to make any solid judgement on who to vote for. He calls out fqads as a likely town, but that's where his vote is sitting?[/quote]

What? What do you mean I don't remember who I'm voting for? I voted for Pyro, and that's where my vote stays for the time being. I haven't waffled on my vote at all.

Startransmission makes a pressure vote on Pyrogen that seems incredibly out of character.

How so?

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Startransmission - I was referring to your analysis posts - the last of which is here. At the time you say that fqads is likely town, you were still voting him from your initial random vote.

Ok, fair enough. But I don't see how my essentially ignoring my random vote constitutes me not being on top of my vote and where it's going.

By out of character, I mean that your vote surprised me. You hadn't really made an effort to accuse anyone of being scummy - look at how you discussed everyone in your analysis. The worst comment you had was that Pyro was hard to read. No real suspicion of anyone and then when the game slows down while waiting on a replacement, you decide to vote.

Yeah, well things were slowing down and after rereading (after my original analysis) I wanted to move my vote from the random stage and place it somewhere where it could do some good. Pyro was the obvious choice, I find him more than counter productive, and he went form active to not active. As you say, he seemed deliberately difficult.

What are all the scum moves that pyro is making?

Has made. The vote for a no-lynch, the self vote and and the constant contradictions (all apparently for the sake of conversation) are the scummy things that pop in mind. He was challenged on every point, and eventually just shuts up, which bothers me almost as much as the actions themselves.

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I agree that a role claim should have been pressed more, but the erratic nature of Pyros play and the impending deadline made the odds of a real claim pretty low.

Pyros last two posts are the most townie things he's posted. He borders on an appeal of emotion here and there, and I'm happy with my vote. I just wish he had started to post from the heart earlier.

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Hey, had internet issues for last couple of days, will post soon.

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- what do you think of the fhqwhgads NK?

Not much, I don't usually dwell on NKs unless there is a good reason to. Scum often target ICs, but I do usually take a gander at who the person NKed was most involved with. In fgads case it would be Pyro, and that gives me little to work with. If it says anything I would imagine that the fact that scum went after the IC may indicate that they aren't getting alot of pressure from anybody else.


Argh, I'm debating on where to put my vote. I have issues with Annachie (most of which have been pointed out), but after a reread I'm not too sure.

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I'll be posting either later tonight or tomorrow; I've been swamped at work.

xvart.

I'm in the same boat. I'll respond to Hacker and xvarts questions as soon as I'm rested and sober.

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After some consideration,

Vote: Kill-Kill

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After some consideration,

Vote: Kill-Kill

Well I know who I'm voting for tomorrow.

xvart.

Why is my vote a problem? My reasons only echo those already brought up. Just because I provided the hammer doesn't mean anything.

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I'm sorry that my activity in this game has been so spotty. It's something that stresses me out, believe it or not. But real life stuff has all but eliminated my free time. I'm going to endeavor to be a bigger part of this game, and right now this is the only game I'm playing. You have all my attention.

After rereading the last few pages, I found that I agreed with virtually every criticism of kill-kill. I suppose I should have said that in my hammer post, but I figured the reason for my voting him was clear.

I know I need to react to Hackers vote for me. I think my only course of action is to re-engage with the game. I'm not sure what he means when he says I play things safe. And I don't see how my vote for Pyro was a cop-out.

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So, this will be a challenge.

I know that all eyes are on me for my poor play yesterday, my hammer, and the spottiness of my posting. I understand that my lynch may be inevitable, but I urge you all to hear me out, and use the time we have. I am vanilla town, and I'm afraid that I've made myself the mafias wet dream. The attention is off of them and on to me.

I'll be happy to answer any questions, and while I wait for the onslaught I'll read through with the new info in mind.

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How about everyone else list their suspect list, since you two already have?

From most scummy to least:
hitogoroshi
xvart
annachie
HackerHuck

Just for the record I've always found a massclaim to be incredibly valuable in a LyLo situation. It pins scum to a certain position. In this case there are no power roles, but it's good to have everyones position in stone. I was a cop in one game and and went after somebody on the last day, and because there was no massclaim to start things off the other person claimed to be the cop and called me a liar. I won't forget how frustrating, let alone dangerous, that was.

hitogoroshi, you're at the top of my list because I get the least townie read from you. I don't have a case against you, and I think me being in the situation I'm in a case from me wouldn't go too far anyways. You say I have content impending, but I'm not sure what to say. I explained my hammer. I was swayed by the arguments against Kill-Kill, and I placed the hammer. In hindsight it was one of the most poorly timed and thought out votes I've ever placed. It may well jeopardize the game, and I'm kicking myself over it. Not sure what else to say.

Like I said I think the best thing for me to do is answer questions, and weigh in on points where I see fit. Any point of view I have will be looked at/spun as an attempt to get a wagon going... so I'm going to be active but passive. This will be one hell of a day, I hope I can convince the right people that my vote yesterday was me being a boob, not scum hammering a townie.

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Like I said I think the best thing for me to do is answer questions, and weigh in on points where I see fit. Any point of view I have will be looked at/spun as an attempt to get a wagon going... so I'm going to be active but passive.

This is not a good idea. We're in LYLO, not endgame, so if you're alive tomorrow we'll be in endgame with little additional content from you. I also need to see how you're acting toward others and making cases to determine whether you're just a boob.

While I did say I would be passive today, I also said I would be active. Too little too late, sure- but you'll get content. And I guarantee you that if there is another day it is because I'll be alive. That is not an appeal to emotion, btw. It's lylo.

Looking at the start dates of Startransmission and Hito, I'd definitely agree with you (although Startransmission does make me wonder )

God fucking dammit. I know I dug my own grave here, but this sucks. I'm a damn fine mafia player, but I let this game slip and now I'm the ass of the ball. It's infuriating. I'm gonna bite the leather, but I'm not going down quiet.

If Star is scum, then his hammer drops him in it a little, and he was involved in both lynches.

I'm not scum, and I'm in it quite a bit as it is.

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I'm not too sure about how much value inspecting wagons has right now. Unless I see a convincing case otherwise, I'm going to

Vote: Hitogoroshi

I have a town read on HH and Annachie, and a fairly neutral read on xvart. All of this is gut, and I'm not trying to start a wagon.

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I'm not sure what you want from me either. Unless something comes up that is a game changer in my eyes, I think I have made the right choice with my vote. I know everyone's annoyed that I threw the vote out too early, but I don't see how it was dangerous. Town doesn't trust me, so it's unlikely that I'm going to get a town voter to put hito at L-1 so that scum can pounce. Scum wants to distance themselves from me, so I don't think they would coordinate a quicklynch. And if I'm right about hito then there is no danger at all. It'll interesting to me to see who eventually puts who up and why. Right now everyone is playing it very safe.