Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #44 (isolation #0) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:10 pm

Post by herd456 »

Hi, this is my first game on this site, but I've played a bit elsewhere. Mostly live, though, so my experience for this type of game is limited (i.e. one game)

I'm rather fond of random voting, so
vote: Patrick
because of how irritated the Greek language has made me today.

Anyway, the dynamic between Ether, Patrick, and Incognito is interesting. I'm not sure how much to attribute to their experience and prior interactions, but I extremely doubt that any pair of them is scum--and not just because of how mathematically improbable that is. I'm not getting any other reads right now, other than the AIM thing's pushing Incognito a little toward town.
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Post Post #46 (isolation #1) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:40 pm

Post by herd456 »

How much your play is affected by your knowing each other, and thus how much of what I might otherwise be able to read may be null because you know how to hide it with each other.

Most of what Annachie has said is summary of another game and some debate about random voting and lurking. I do tend to agree more with you, Ether than I do with Annachie on active lurking, though--your definition essentially fits my own. I have a hard time reading him too strongly either way, though I will say I don't like how he seems so eager to see how you three (Ether, Patrick, Incognito) react to one another that he hasn't formed much of an opinion himself.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #2) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:41 pm

Post by herd456 »

I only made the random vote because I like to--it's not like I put him at L-2, and the game was still pretty new. Also, like Patrick said, it's not like I made a post with a random vote and no more.

I guess my posts last night weren't clear. My opinion of Annachie seems pretty accurate, I think? Except for mentioning a gut feeling, all he'd said about the three experienced players seems to be a request for Ether's opinion. I don't have much of a read on him otherwise, but this bothers me a little. So I guess I don't fully understand your unease, Ether.

And I don't actually know why I didn't include both Patrick and Incog as slightly pro-town, because that's what I meant to do. I must have forgotten to finish the thought.

I wasn't trying to buddy up with anyone, either--We shared an opinion about active lurking, and I mentioned this in a paragraph in which I addressed her directly.

My only other read at the moment is a slightly protown one on boberz. He seems like he's genuinely trying to help, and also pointed out how he's perhaps being misguided by the IC and SEs--which could, in theory, have been useful to him down the line as an excuse? I don't know, he just strikes me as pro-town.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #3) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:45 pm

Post by herd456 »

boberz wrote:Do I insinuate from "trying to help" that I am actually hindering. Why? bad reads, too many posts, crap posts, all of the above.
Nope.
Ether wrote:Elaborate on your train of thought there?
I suppose that being on AIM correlates with being online for them, which would then mean that not on AIM=not able to communicate with any scum. It's more of a stretch than is the case for their not being scum together, but I thing it's at least something.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #4) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Post by herd456 »

I've been kind of bust today--checking in but unable to post. I'll post some actual content in about an hour.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #5) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:47 pm

Post by herd456 »

*busy, above

Anyway, I don't really understand Ether's vote on ksen--if anything, his insistence in the argument hints that he's actually trying to figure something out which may end up helping the town, even though it's wrong. He hasn't really said much else, which isn't a scum tell unless it lasts longer than it has.

Annachie, who are yours? I find it odd that you're asking but haven't made your own answers very clear. Nevertheless I'll try to answer. My strongest town reads at the moment are boberz and Ether: boberz for reasons mentioned above, and Ether because of her evident tells, and because she seems to be moving the town in the right direction. (Though I would like a better explanation for her vote on ksen) I would say my biggest scum read at the moment is on Annachie, but it's not a very convincing read. I just don't like how he's asking for who we suspect but hasn't said anything about it himself since his gut feeling about the three ICs.
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Post Post #123 (isolation #6) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:00 am

Post by herd456 »

Annachie wrote:Herd I suspect of ducking questions and content. Perhaps being a touch confrontational. I really don't like his professed love of random voting.
Unless I've missed something, none of this is true. I believe I've answered any questions that were directly or indirectly posed at me, which is the only way to duck a question. I concede that I haven't exactly posted the most content, but neither have you. Where have I been confrontational, exactly? And I don't love random voting, I merely like to make one at the beginning of the game. It did no one any harm.

Additionally, his vote on me came not long after I called him my biggest scum read. This may not mean anything, but I think scum is more likely to do that--please correct me if I am wrong.
Ether wrote:Could you elaborate on the difference here?
Annachie was being somewhat hypocritical, and ksen was being essentially useless.

Incidentally, ksen's recent posts have been no more useful, and it's troubling that he still hasn't posted who he thinks is scum.
Incognito wrote:You mentioned that you play Mafia elsewhere. How convincing does your read normally have to be in order for you to want to actually take action it particularly in the early game?
There's no real point at which a vote becomes justified, but I need more than what I had at this point. (Which was only asking for info not having given it himself) However, I think I have enough now to
Unvote, Vote: Annachie
. (Yeah, yeah, I just mentioned how his voting me after my saying he was my number one scum read seemed scummy--This vote is the most justified one I can make for other reasons, however)
boberz wrote:I am more worried about what I considered a fairly contentless post in herd's long post because it was built up so much. I accept he was pushed into saying anything and hence maybe rehashes were all he could muster. But I am not convinced.
I'm not really sure what you want here, but I don't think it was totally contentless, and at the very least I've added something here. Tell me if you wanted something else. (At least you're trying to stimulate activity, which I admit I haven't been doing very well myself)
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Post Post #154 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:45 pm

Post by herd456 »

Annachie, I hope your wife is well soon.

Anyway, I haven't looked too much at the links ksen provided, but we should probably be at least a little sympathetic with the whole "lynch an inactive" thing--It's wrong, but I belong to another forum which has mafia (I've never played there) where lynching inactives seems to be commonplace.

On to Annachie. At the moment he is the best place for my vote. I'm still getting town vibes from Ether and boberz. Everyone else is more or less neutral still, except for ksen and Annachie.

ksen
: I still argue he's posted next-to nothing. Honestly, he's linked us to a few games on some forum in which it is appropriate to lynch inactives (though I still haven't had the best look at them--Someone who has should correct me if I'm making an oversimplification) and he has called out Yarmond for not having posted. While, as above, I sympathize that he probably has learnt that this is correct, he should have posted some actual reads by now. I'm not sure what to make of the dialogue between him and boberz except that ksen is being stubborn, and boberz is still giving the same town vibe he has the whole game. Therefore I see ksen on the whole as useless, but not necessarily because he is scum--Though this is one possible explanation.

Annachie
: I'll say from the beginning that I don't like how he made three posts from my vote on him without commenting about it/me/anyone else, but I can let that slide given the circumstances. I definitely want to know why he's voted me, and the answers to questions others have posed to him in his next post, though. I'll flesh out my earlier vote on him now.
Post 129, Ether wrote:(I don't see hypocrisy as a scumtell, incidentally, and I think Herd is understating Annachie's content in contrast to Ksen's.)
I think in Annachie's case hypocrisy is a scumtell, though it may not be in all cases. The two main points in which he was being hypocritical are that he requested opinions which he had not yet divulged himself, and that he used my not having posted much content as a reason to vote for me, while he hadn't either. My main problem is the former, as the latter could be (somewhat) excused by his situation in real life. Withholding such information only benefits him as scum, and getting it from others could help either side, but he then looks like a proactive townie aiding in the discussion.

Moreover, I think he is blatantly dodging questions. Or at least the one about my being confrontational. He has responded to several things after the posting of this question, which leads me to further believe that he was looking for a reason to vote for me (since I'd called him my biggest scum read) and that's what he came up with.

Oh, and
Post 132, Incognito wrote:it seems like he's asking for permission on whether or not OMGUS is actually a scum tell rather than explaining why he thinks it is
Rather I was excusing what might have been confused with OMGUS--I didn't want people to think I was doing exactly as Annachie was doing.
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Post Post #159 (isolation #8) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by herd456 »

@Incognito: The only read I had on you two was a weak one, and since then you've been pretty neutral to me, so you fall under "more or less neutral."

Randal seems to have essentially repeated what everyone else had already said in his last post, which obviously isn't helpful. I guess it could be seen as scummy not to post original stuff but just to summarize and make it look like you're adding to the discussion, but I don't know. I'm not sure, but is it usually a tell if someone puts a "pressure vote" on an inactive player? It seems as though it might be a bit protown, but I don't know.

I will say that, if anyone, Annachie should be calling Randal confrontational, not me.
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Post Post #160 (isolation #9) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:28 pm

Post by herd456 »

Hmm so I missed this, but Annachie did call Randal confrontational. Whoops.

Oh, and happy birthday,
starkmoon
!
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Post Post #182 (isolation #10) » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:16 am

Post by herd456 »

Hey everyone, sorry I wasn't on yesterday, but something came up. I'll also have limited access today and tomorrow due to Thanksgiving, but I'll definitely try to get in one good post later tonight. Some quick things for now:

Incognito, my read on you is neutral mainly because you haven't been the most proactive for the town, but you also haven't done anything scummy in my opinion. I might be tempted to read this as protown, but I'm probably biased by your experience.

Also, boberz' question to the ICs is odd but I think I see where he's coming from in its asking.

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