Newbie 878 (Game Over: scum victory)

[Mylynes]

I noticed you are no longer waiting for 4 people to confirm. Just wondering when the official start date for the game is and if the remaining people have confirmed or not.

[Mylynes]

Let the debating and voting begin!

Nevermind it seems I posted that only a few minutes after your post >< Honestly I'm mainly just ready to start my first game.

Since it is started I might as well go ahead and begin the game with my first post here:

vote: Linehouse

I would like to start with a few questions. First off I

am not sure what all of the abbreviations mean yet so if

anyone could link me to a compilation of them somewhere

that would be very helpful.

Random question time.
danakillsu - Would you rather be playing as scum or town?
Arthur Dent - Who is your scumbuddy?
animorpherv1 - If you were to random vote someone who

would it be?

I also welcome questions from anyone so feel free to ask

me whatever.

[Mylynes]

Vote: Mylynes

Obvscum.

Mind explaining your vote? After all im here primarily to learn for my first game.(that is the last time I'll say this as I do not want to pull the newbie card after looking at previous games I realize that would not be a good defensive move to make later on I realize I am not the only new to this game here.

Would it be because of my questions or the fact that I excluded you from my list? Or possibly some other reason? I will explain the reasoning behing my questioning and my vote a bit later on. (before the first day ends but also after some feedback)

[Mylynes]

ok, so my tag skills are not the best >.>

b]Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

I have also made both a grammar error and a punctuation error but I think editing my post is a bad idea.. So yea dont feel bad over a simple mistake.

[Mylynes]

ok, so my tag skills are not the best >.>

b]Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

I have also made both a grammar error and a punctuation error but I think editing my post is a bad idea.. So yea dont feel bad over a simple mistake.

You have the ability to edit your posts? Jealous! Maybe it has something to do with your hidden Mafia mask...

Actually now that I look at it I don't have the ability to edit my posts.. I apologize. I guess to edit we are supposed to quote our post and fix what was wrong in the new post?

[Mylynes]

Vote: animorpherv1

because he's the only other SE besides me.

Mylynes, I really do not understand why you would start off a game with a post like that. Especially your first game.

For good or bad all will be explained soon. Although I haven't played yet I have read quite a bit since I joined.

[Mylynes]

Ok simple posting errors aside..

Lets see.. so far danakillsu, Xzy, and animorpherv1 have yet to post although it is very early in the game. Both Xzy and animorpherv1 have votes against them and I would like to hear a response from danakillsu and animorpherv1 to my initial questioning.

Arthur Dent replied to my question by not really answering it but I did not expect to get much of anything out of that question anyways.

So far (In this order) I voted for Linehouse, "for reasons unexplained yet." Debonair Danny DiPietro voted for me with the comment, "Obvscum." Arthur Dent voted for Xzy, "For not being in alphabetical order." Fongoid voted jmj3000, "because he's spending too much time plotting how to win as scum instead of taking 10 seconds to upload an avvie." jmj3000 has random voted for Debonair Danny DiPietro, "by alphabatizing players and flipping a coin." Then Linehouse voted for animorpherv1, "because he's the only other SE besides me."

That would make the current vote totals:
Fongoid = 0
danakillsu = 0
Arthur Dent = 0
Mylynes = 1 (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
Xzy = 1 (Arthur Dent)
jmj3000 = 1 (Fongoid)
Linehouse (SE*) = 1 (Mylynes)
animorpherv1 (SE*) = 1 (Linehouse)
Debonair Danny DiPietro (IC*) = 1 (jmj3000)

@Debonair Danny DiPietro - Being the most experienced player here what do you think we should be doing at this point?

[Mylynes]

Unvote

Fos: Debonair Danny DiPietro

@Arthur Dent - Lol yea joke question although it did have a purpose.

@Xzy - Thanks for the link.

And now for the reasoning behind my initial post:
Long story short I believed that the more experienced players would be harder to read than the newer players so for my scumhunt I should target the experienced players initially and wait for a read on the newer players. I can also read more into the more experienced players by looking into their history.

I voted limehouse and questioned animorpherv1 because they are both SE just to see what the reaction would be, asked a random question to danakillsu and Arthur Dent just so I could be questioning both experienced and inexperienced players, and purposely left out Debonair Danny DiPietro because as of the beginning of the game I wanted to probe him the most because he is the most experienced person here and because of that I figured probing him directly would get nothing accomplished while leaving him out of my list may allow me to probe him indirectly and get a better read on him.

Since Debonair Danny DiPietro is the most experienced player here if he is scum he could be a great threat to the town although if he is town he could also be a great asset to the town. This is why I decided to initially look into him the most. I have skimmed through every page of his previous posts and looked into all of his finished games. I don't want to say which games I have been looking into because then if he is scum he will know how to better hide himself from me. A couple of things to note however are for some reason most of his games he seems to turn out protown and he also has a bad history of getting lynched as a townie which I need to look into more deeply at the moment. Also just because lately he appears to end up as protown does not mean he will be protown in this game. Interestingly enough immediately after my initial post he voted me and said Obvscum. Despite him being so aggressive from the very start of the game it is not enough to warrant a vote yet as he could be either a very important protown or proscum player and I think it would be wise to wait until I get a better read on him and I WILL be watching him very closely.

@Debonair Danny DiPietro

Scum posting pointless filler. This recap doesn't help the town at all, but looks busy. Lynch the scum.

It's true that the information in that post could be found in the previous posts but I am already logging all of that information as well as a couple of things which may end up being posted when there is a better use for it. Personally I thought it may be of slight use to someone as we still had players who had not arrived yet and the recap makes it easier for everyone to review what moves have been made so far and in what order. Also as far as activity goes I will be on a LOT.. I have no job and no school at the moment so I will be at home almost every single day with nothing to do. So far from what I have read I am very for conversation and activity because it allows people to read each other.

[Mylynes]

Just noticed that your wiki should help me analyze you more efficiently DDD.

[Mylynes]

vote:Mylynes

to get discussion going.

Welcome to the game. Also thanks for answering my question although I'm not sure whether that was random or not. Anything you would like to discuss in particular?

If you are a doc who would you protect?

[Mylynes]

If you are a doc who would you protect?

That seems like a scum question to me. You want tips on who you shouldn't target during the Night?

Yah, I was going to comment that Mylynes is either being an over zealous townsperson or a scum trying to cover tracks.

I agree that it is hard at this point to not have anything taken out of context though. I just got nightkilled in a game where I would have been suspect #1 had I not gotten nightkilled. (I'm still trying to figure why I got blasted.) I was town, btw.

@Linehouse - The question was meant to promote conversation. I don't really believe there could be any useful information gained from that question. You said yourself, "My decision would be based on what happened throughout the course of the Day." Interestlingly enough it seems some conversation has been started.

@Arthur Dent - Over zealous townsperson is exactly what I'm going for at the moment. True at this point from what has happened so far I could be viewed as scum trying to cover tracks but I would like to be easy to read and I will continue to be active in promoting conversation because I do not mind being watched. If I were scum I would wan't to be this active because of the attention it draw and the possibility of making a mistake.

[Mylynes]

If I were scum I would

not want

to be this active because of the attention it draw and the possibility of making a mistake. *

[Mylynes]

I believe his reasoning is sort of lacking. Getting into the person's head and comparing their responses against past behavior is great. Just he has asked questions that do not really apply here.

I'm not comfortable jumping on the wagon yet.

I WILL be watching him very closely.

Doesn't that.. Make your objective harder? I don't see the IC cracking under pressure because a newbie will be analyzing him at every turn.

If I were scum I would not want to be this active because of the attention it draw and the possibility of making a mistake.

WIFOM. Being active doesn't equal town. Although it's often that scum don't try to have significant attention drawn to them this type of activity is hardly even doing that.

Doesn't that.. Make your objective harder? I don't see the IC cracking under pressure because a newbie will be analyzing him at every turn.

He hasn't said much since then. Out of his 3 games as mafia (original player) in one game he lurked after seeing an opportunity, in another game he caused a mislynch on d2, and in the other game he caused a mislynch on both d1 and d2. I don't want to vote for him yet as I would like a chance for him to speak some more before the day is over. Also, if I do get lynched today and end up being a confirmed townie I would highly suggest suspicion on Debonair Danny DiPietro. He has only posted 3 times so far and from the very beginning without much information to go on and no explaintion since. I believe this is either because he is playing as scum and started the bandwagon on me and is now lurking because I have drawn enough attention to myself for a bandwagon to start without his help or he is playing as town and for some reason played very agressive in the beginning in the hopes of drawing out scum and just has been away for whatever reason.

WIFOM. Being active doesn't equal town. Although it's often that scum don't try to have significant attention drawn to them this type of activity is hardly even doing that.

I do not mind being lynched if it means drawing out scum. However I do believe it would be pro town to not have a hasty lynch and at least wait until more conversation has taken place.

@Debonair Danny DiPietro - I would still very much like an explanation for your original agression towards me. If you are scum you may continue to lurk as I get lynched then become a confirmed townie or you can continue your agression to get me lynched and become a confirmed townie. Either way I hope that my death will at least result in a scumkill for the town.

[Mylynes]

FYI just because you don't have a job or life doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat with you. I haven't been gone from this game for twelve hours and now I'm lurking? Silly scum.

Thank you for your reply. First off I believe I said, "I have no job and no school

at the moment

." Surely this means I have no life right? lol

As Mylynes should know from going through my games the last newbie game I IC'ed one of the scum immediately opened with "interesting questions" to learn and get reads on people. In the game I modded another scum did the exact same thing. These questions are of no practical use and yet they look busy and is answered "incorrectly" can be twisted to bad end. Classic scum tactic.

I do not understand what another players history has to do with me in particular. In your case I am looking into your history to read

your

playstyle. I do apologize about the lurking thing as you have come back and posted which I did mention that if you are scum you could continue your aggression to get me lynched. I also mentioned that you playing as town and for some reason played very aggressive in the beginning in the hopes of drawing out scum and just has been away for whatever reason. If thinking out loud is a crime I apologize. I have already explained that my purpose behind this is to make myself easy to read. My initial questioning was primarily directed at you

before

you voted me. So far I have found that you are the best suspect I have so far based on what I have read from your previus playstyle as townie and as scum as well as what has happened in here so far. While suspicious, at this point I do not have enough to go on for a vote yet. But depending on how things go that may change(especially in the case where you end up securing an easy lynch on day one and I turn out to be townie). My question to animorpherv1 also had a purpose which I will explain later in the day if given a chance.

Oh and you can summarize things if you plan on using them in a case or something, but we do not need a recap for the sake of a recap every page or so. If you need to do it, do it privately and then when you have something relevant to say, parse it from your recap and just post the important part and why it's important.

I never claimed to want to recap every page. If you didn't catch it that post was also a heads up that I am indeed logging various aspects of the game and will not hesitate to post and comment something important if something shows itself through that means.

And why did I attack you? Because that's what you do. Would voting for Arthur Dent because he's a fictional character moved the game forward? No. But finding something scummy in what you've done and pushing you on it does move the game forward and helps give reactions and thoughts.

Sounds fair enough.

@everyone - Every move I have made has had a purpose and things should get interesting later in the day as I have a plan that should be useful in throwing off the scum.

[/quote][/u]

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, it seems to me that you are just posting walls of text to try and discourage us from reading them and determining if there is anything scummy in your posts, which to me is very scummy in and of itself.

Vote: Mylynes

Have my post really been that long that you can't even read them once? Would that also come off as scummy enough to warrant a possible early mislynch? Every post I have made so far has had a purpose. I also have a plan I would like to discuss soon but only after more looking for scum. The deadline is still 20 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes and 27 seconds away.

[Mylynes]

@DDD: From my past experience on another site (six games there), I have noticed that scum, especially newer scum, either lurk alot or are passive aggressive and post walls of text, hoping no one will sit there and sift through it and find evidence to tear their argument to pieces. Also, he asked ani a question about who he would protect if he was doctor, as if he wanted to make sure he didn't waste a night kill. Mnay of his posts are just filler, trying to make it seem that he is busy scumhunting, when in fact he is just regurgitating and rehashing information he said before. To me, all those actions have him pinging as scum posing as clueless townie.

If the majority of the players feel like my activity level is making me harder to read then I will slow down some. I would rather not be the only one talking either as I need to read people. I personally think that if anything it would make me easier to read as there would be more to go on but perhaps that is only if you are really paying attention to what is going on in the game. I do see how it could be annoying though.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, it seems to me that you are just posting walls of text to try and discourage us from reading them and determining if there is anything scummy in your posts, which to me is very scummy in and of itself.

Vote: Mylynes

Have my post really been that long that you can't even read them once? Would that also come off as scummy enough to warrant a possible early mislynch? Every post I have made so far has had a purpose. I also have a plan I would like to discuss soon but only after more looking for scum. The deadline is still 20 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes and 27 seconds away.

Oh, I read them once, but when the game gets further on and closer to deadline, and people are scurrying around to get information for their arguments, they aren't going to go through and read it in depth, they are going to skim them for things that jump out at them at scum, and in wall posts, that kind of stuff can be hidden very well. Everyone's posts have a purpose, and thats to convince others they are town, so that argument isnt very good either. Also, you keep talking about this plan, and I understand you wanting to keep it underwraps, but that is making you much more suspicious and not helping you, or the town or that matter, much. I am not going to rely on the deadlines, due to the fact that the games I played on the other site had much, much shorter ones (longest was until conversation stagnated, shortest being 3 days), so we couldn't rely on them.

Well I will tone it down then to reduce the volumn of information I put out there starting now. I did not reallize it would make it harder to read in the end game. Probably because I don't expect to make it to the end game. I am also playing to win. After my plan is revealed things will make more sense. I know we do not have to wait until just before the deadline but right now it is still very early in the day.

[Mylynes]

@Fongoid: He mentioned his plan and then told us how much time we had left until deadline, almost as if he thinks that how long until the deadline will slow me down. I don't base my conversation on deadlines, I base it on the information given by other people. If you use the whole time between the start of the day and the deadline, the scum can go back over their posts and notice tells they put in there, therefore they change their playstyle little by little until you don't realize it.

@Mylynes:

Well I will tone it down then to reduce the volumn of information I put out there starting now. I did not reallize it would make it harder to read in the end game. Probably because I don't expect to make it to the end game. I am also playing to win. After my plan is revealed things will make more sense. I know we do not have to wait until just before the deadline but right now it is still very early in the day.

Oh no, don't cut back on the information in your posts, cut back on the filler around your information. The town's biggest weapon is knowledge and information, and if you cut back on information, like you said you would, you are very anti-town

I'll try to cut back the size of my posts but try to include as much information as I can.

@Fongoid: He mentioned his plan and then told us how much time we had left until deadline, almost as if he thinks that how long until the deadline will slow me down. I don't base my conversation on deadlines, I base it on the information given by other people. If you use the whole time between the start of the day and the deadline, the scum can go back over their posts and notice tells they put in there, therefore they change their playstyle little by little until you don't realize it.

If you believe me to be scum then my partner would still be out there. You can kill me now and either get an early scum kill or early misslynch or you could keep your suspicion on me and end up finding the dext days lynch target before you kill me. You could at least try for the double kill.

[Mylynes]

If you believe me to be scum then my partner would still be out there. You can kill me now and either get an early scum kill or early misslynch or you could keep your suspicion on me and end up finding the dext days lynch target before you kill me. You could at least try for the double kill.

Look.. Don't think we'll automatically catch scum if you're speedlynched. Unless you are in fact scum. If that's so, then you're making a very bad bluff.

Don't be a martyr if we can't at least trade one townie for one scum.[/quote]
Right now there are 2 scum out there and based on my current suspicions it is likely that both of them have already voted for me. Despite my suspicions at the time though it could be likely that 1 scum hasn't jumped on the bandwagon just yet but might end up really wanting to kill me soon.

Also if i am playing as scum I would be playing very badly at this point. If I am playing as townie I would be playing somewhat risky at the moment but soon things will become less risky. Not less risky for me but less risky for the town.

Whether I am playing as townie or scum we could wait still for more information to go on for the moment and not ending the day phase too early.

[Mylynes]

[quote="Mylynes]Also if i am playing as scum I would be playing very badly at this point. If I am playing as townie I would be playing somewhat risky at the moment but soon things will become less risky. Not less risky for me but less risky for the town.

Explain this please. Why will things become less risky for town? I can understand if we get more information, but you are talking in riddles and at least confusing me, if you haven't confused the rest of town.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

I'll make my reveal on page 6-8 depending on how much happens between now and then. I will be going to sleep soon and other than right after I wake up I wont be on much as I have a lot of yard work I need to get done tomorrow. Will be on after I get finished though.

[Mylynes]

You are making a huge assumption that you will survive until those pages.

You must really want me dead then.

[Mylynes]

@DDD - It was a smart move to pull back whether you are scum or townie. In the result of my early mislynch as a townie you would go to the very top of my list as so far all you have done is pursue getting me lynched other than pulling back which could either be a townie move pulling away from a possible quickhammer or scum trying to create distance from my death.

I'm with jmj on this one. Holding information for no reason (we haven't had a Night Phase yet, folks!) to me, makes it seem like your scum trying to fake information. My vote now has some substance to it.

You assume I don't have a reason for holding this information. You could assume I am scum and get me lynched early or you could at least consider my potential role as a townie and hear me out.

In my re-read, this stuck out to me. The logic here appears to me to be WIFOM.

WIFOM can be either anti town or anti mafia. I will be giving an example of the latter when I reveal my plan. If I am townie then because of the situation I am putting myself into the obvious scum move would be getting me lynched either directly or indirectly. They may also want to silence me if they believe that I have something useful to say or a possible role to claim.

To add to things a bit considering that I am town the mafia will be the only ones to know for sure that I am town which could make them stick out from other people. This information could be useful after my death. It is helpful for me in getting a reading off of someone to consider what they are doing from both a scum perspective and a town perspective.

Either this is true, which if so, if we killed you,we end up narrowing down the possibilities of who Mafia is based on your logic.
Or, if we killed you, and you're Mafia yourself, the people who aren't voting are suspect based on your logic.

Wouldn't either outcome be good for the town? Strange thing to point out for someone who seems to really want me dead.

Both are true although it is possible that if I am mafia my partner would still vote for me to create distance. However I do not plan on surviving the whole game as upon death I will become a confirmed townie.

How is this a defense for us not voting for you? My opinion is shifting from you being over zealous to just plain scummy. You have more loopholes than a spaghetti strainer, and I'd like to see some concrete things.

Right now my defense against being lynched on the spot is that even in the case where I do turn out to be mafia there is still one more person out there you could work on finding before lynching me. As a townie however, in the case of my death I will become a confirmed townie and will have been silenced early which is also ok if it manages to draw out scum. I believe what I have to say could be very useful for the town. I also believe that if the scum believe my claim to throw off their NK to be potentially true their best bet would be to silence me now. Lets see what happens.

If you really want to see more concrete things then don't silence me early and allow some time for the town to continue its investigation in the meantime.

Thanks. Now, back to scumhunting. Mylynes, are you going to answer the accusations and reveal your "plan"?

If the majority of the players want to reveal my plan now then I will post my reveal after I get back from working. Personally I believe it would be best to wait until at least some more conversation has passed so in the least I would like to encourage some activity before I get back.

At the moment some people still haven't contributed much other than attacking me. More specifically this would be jmj3000, danakillsu, and DDD. In order of who I believe is most suspicious at the moment.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, you keep with holding this information, and it keeps making you seem scummier and scummier. If you want us to believe you are town, I would suggest revealing your plan BEFORE you start working, which will give us more information to work with.

The deadline is still forever away and I plan on revealing what I have to say soon enough so whether I wait or not town will have more info to work with and plenty of time afterwards to work with it. It may however be useful to collect information both before and afterwards.

Replies just like the one you have just given is reason enough to want to wait some. In this situation everyone should be allowed to be curious but scum would be the only players completely unwilling to wait until I get back.

[Mylynes]

No, with holding any information at any time is never a good idea. I once voted and said I was going to keep my reasons private, and almost got lynched. You should give the town information so they can make an informed decision about who to lynch. Don't worry about the deadline, as you said, it is forever away. In case you haven't noticed, nearly all of town is suspicious of you, and you aren't helping yourself out any by not giving us any information the would help clear yourself of any scum vibes. In fact, you are just heaping more scum vibes onto yourself.

Who else thinks I should reveal before I go? I believe there is a good reason for witholding this information at least until I get back which shouldn't be that far away. I'm also not about to reveal too early just because the person on the top of my suspicion list says so.

I'm going to leave at 5:00 am and it is 2:38 am right now. Does anyone else have an opinion on whether it would be best to reveal before I leave or after I get back later today? I would personally like to get a better reading on some people beforehand.

[Mylynes]

Nobody else? At least jmj3000 went for it. +1 suspicious point on jmj3000.

It seems from re-reading that people want to hear what I have to say sooner rather than later and I have prolonged things long enough to get some interesting posts so I will go ahead and post the reveal now and then see where things end up going while I'm gone today. I would like to hear Everyone's opinions on this.

The entire point of me drawing everyone's attention was to draw out scum by seeing who would love to help out with an easy mislynch. The point behind announcing my future claim as being a threat to scum and wanting to wait before revealing it was designed to do the same thing. Making myself more a target for the scum(which jmj3000 seems to have taken the bait).

I am willing to gamble with my life to draw out the scum as so far some information could become very incriminating to scum after my death. Because of me gambling with my life until now it should also make me appear more vanilla townie than doctor to the scum while asking an SE which target he would protect if he is the doc could make me appear more doc than vanilla townie. Much of what I have done so far has been leading up to throwing off the scum by setting up the WIFOM. After re-analyzing everything so far I would like to FOS: jmj3000, DDD, and danakillsu in that order.


I am the doctor.

If I am not really the doctor and there is a doctor in this game you should not counterclaim at this point. If I am scum this would only succeed in letting the scum kill the real doctor assuming I am not the real doctor.

Assuming nobody is counterclaiming me the scum will be completely thrown off by this claim. They will be stuck in a vicious cycle of WIFOM about their NK which could destroy any early game night strategy that they have.

The scum now need me dead, badly. Therefore, they will probably try to get me lynched to save them the trouble of NKing me. This would be something to watch out for. They also need to decide each night whether or not to NK me, but it's more complicated than that. If I am not the doctor then the real doctor could choose to protect me and stop their kill or the doctor could choose to let me die which confirms me as town and protects our power roles anyways so it's a gain for the town.

However, since I am the real claimed doctor I can operate completely in the open, discussing my protection possibilities with the rest of the town thus forcing the mafia to limit their night strategy even further and allowing me to manipulate it in a manner that best helps the town. If I am not the real doctor and their is a doctor in this game then my selection of possible protection targets would not only still serve to throw off the scums NK but also allow the real doctor to do what ever he wants while remaining hidden.

Please note that though you may have doubts about the usefulness of this claim there is a purpose behind it. If it is not completely apparent to you that is good because it means that it is not completely apparent to the scum either. It is steeped in WIFOM so deep as to leave the scum utterly susceptible to manipulation and control but it ultimately depends on how they choose to react to it.

[Mylynes]

Back from working. I'll try to explain things more clearly.

I believe fongoid understands the point of my move and hit the nail on the head with the three situations. If I am believed to be scum then I invite you to kill me on D3.

As there is at least 1 other scum out there the town will have 2 chances to find my partner and possibly the other scum before D3. If the town manages 2 successful lynches in a row we win. If the town gets only 1 successful lynch by D3 then killing me will either end the game or possibly help draw out the last scum. If the town manages no successful lynches and I am scum then killing me could possibly help find my partner while if I am not scum then my death could possibly point out both scum. However I think it would be best to get at least 1 successful lynch on D1 or D2.

If I am scum then painting a bulls-eye on my own chest makes it hard to fulfill my win condition. However if I'm town and I catch a scum and die in the process then I've dramatically improved the town's chance, and therefore my chance, of winning. As town your own life is forfeit. If your death would improve the chances of a town win then you take at least one scum down with you.

Unless I do something blatantly scummy to the point of near insanity I'm nearly unlynchable for the moment. Lynching a claimed power role, weak or not with no counterclaim on D1 or D2 is one of the stupidest moves a town can make unless there is a damn good reason to suspect said player anyway. And if I'm not the doc, then the only way scum is getting a counterclaim is by doing it themselves, which, sure gets me lynched, but it also loses them one of only 2 members, and they risk doing that just to get a townie lynched.

Seriously, this was about the worst play ever. BTW we have no reason to suspect you're town so why on Tiger Woods' green Earth would we allow you to dictate whether someone should counterclaim or not. Put it like this... IF YOU ARE NOT THE DOCTOR THEN YOU NEED TO CLAIM VANILLA IN YOUR NEXT POST or else we will allow for counterclaims and if there is one we will lynch you.

2) The doctor should counterclaim, I don't believe you. There's a one-off 50% chance there isn't a doctor. Even without counterclaim I don't believe you.

If I am not the real doc and the doc claims not only will he have painted himself a target for the scum but my possible townie roles could also be shot. Definitely not a good move for the town at the moment.

1) You're hinting you might not be the doctor. If you're counterclaimed and town you failed as a townie, really.

The goal is not to really to convince the town about whether I am the doctor or not, it is to instill doubt in the scum as to whether their night game will work. The way that I've been wording stuff is specifically designed to leave enough room for the scum to think I'm lying for them to be forced into suboptimal kill targets.

3) Discuss your protection? Useless. You're dead tonight. Unless the scum want to risk hitting your protection target only to make you look even more scummy tomorrow.

By declaring 2 protects for example I can make the scum think REAL hard before trying to kill one of them, since if I'm telling the truth they have only a 50% chance that their kill will go through. It forces them to kill people that they don't want to kill if they can't take the risk, and that leaves more strong players alive in endgame.

If scum want to kill me, they have to ask themselves if they want to risk me being protected. If they want to block me, they have to risk me not being a power role. If they want to kill one of my claimed targets then they have to risk that it's the one I protect. etc., etc..

Most likely I believe the scum will be trying to get me lynched to avoid having their night game controlled.

4) Why on earth did you claim doctor day 1 if you're not scum? I can't chalk this up to inexperience.

Point four elaborated is that only scum would benefit from claiming doc day 1, taking off pressure and hoping there is no real doctor. Which is my motives for the revised point two.

Surely after reading this post you can see more than just scum benefits from this. Fongoid seems to understand:

There are 3 situations:
1. Mylynes is scum. He's been doing all this to WIFOM the hell out of everything, and perhaps claimed a PR to avoid the lynch.
2. Mylynes is vanilla townie. He honestly thinks this is helping town, by WIFOMing the hell out of scum's NK targets, making them target him, a vanilla townie, instead of a town PR.
3. Mylynes is doc. He's WIFOMing this so as to hopefully not get NKed, since scum will think he's vanilla town.

Also, scum might take the 50/50 and counter-claim Mylynes as doc, which if Mylynes is townie, we'll believe scum is the real deal.

[Mylynes]

Also by announcing my D3 deathwish the scum will have to ask if it is more important to NK me now as I could be the doctor or if they want to wait for a D3 lynch. This is assuming they fail to get me lynched on D1 or D2.

[Mylynes]

I think you need to start reading our posts than stroke your ego with these

WIFOM

brilliant plans you're coming up with.


1) It's incredibly scummy to admit you want to live to day X. When I'm scum and caught I desperately grab onto the next day. Albeit not nearly as obvious as you're putting it.
2) You're just.. Everything is WIFOM with you. Stop it. If you're town you should make some solid arguments. Solid decisions. And solid plans. Confusing the town won't help you, or us at all.

If you're a townie

say so

. Any benefit this WIFOM will come of will definitely be lost by the end of day because you will be lynched.

1) On day 3 I will vote for myself and encourage everyone to vote for me as well. If this appears scummy to you then please do tell me what I would have to gain by killing myself.

2) Sorry but if I were to allow the town to know whether I am the doctor I would also be allowing the scum to know. The entire purpose of my move is that the scum do not know if I am the doctor or a vanilla townie.

I could be lynched at the end of the day yes but if I am scum what is the harm in searching for my partner first and picking up the kill on me later as this would allow time for me to fullfill my role as doctor.

You seem to only want to analyze things from the perspective I am scum. You also seem unwilling to believe my doctor or vanilla towny role could also be true.

Frankly, I'm suspicious of Mylynes and animorph right now based on their early game responses (its still early thought, and I'd like to hear from everyone on this subject). Since Mylynes already has a collection of votes, I'l leave my vote on animorph for now.

You haven't really pursued the possibility that animoph could be scum since this post yet your vote still remains on him.
Are you still suspicious of him? Why or why not?

[Mylynes]

Also I can't claim this move as my own. In one of the previous games I read an IC used the exact same tactic to lead to a perfect townie win on D2. After I saw my role as either doctor or vanilla townie I decided this is what I wanted to do.
So I don't deserve credit for the idea although I do believe this could be useful to throw off the scums night game.

[Mylynes]

See the problem here is that you're trying to hide behind a power role claim without having to bear the negative of that claim by facing a counterclaim and we have absolutely no reason to allow you to do that.

True I could be scum hiding behind a power role but do you really believe that to be true? If so why?

Say for example you are town and we decide to follow your plan and then we fuck up day one and two, so on day three either you have to break your word and effectively get lynched for it and lose the game anyways or get lynched and we lose the game. This is bad.

Yes that would be bad which is why we need to be careful on who we lynch. If I am scum this is not too bad though as you will at least be able to kill me on D3 and possibly find my partner because of it. Also whether I break my word or not come D3 is irrelavant as I believe I would be lynched either way.

Then let's say you're scum by agreeing not to lynch you we're dropped the town's probability of lynching correctly in half which is ruinous. Then we get to D3 after we've screwed up twice because of our vastly reduced percentages and you can pull out the very argument used above to renege. Even if we do lynch scum-you then we're still in LYLO with less usual connections than otherwise because we were just following your plan.

If I am scum then the town would perhaps have less chance of lynching correctly but on D3 would have a 100% chance to lynch correctly. You also take care to not view the possibility of me being doctor or vanilla townie. As a townie our odds of landing on scum would not be harmed. As either one of my possible town roles I am depending on finding at least one scum before then and then suiciding to be confirmed as townie. If I don't get NKed before then.

The only good scenario is completely contingent on you being town and us lynching correctly day one and/or two. And we could do that without you throwing this boiling pot of WIFOM on us.

Please explain how I could possibly WIFOM the scum without simultaneously WIFOMing the town?

In conclusion, A you will provide the link to the theoretical game you mention and B you will claim either Doc or VT. If you refuse then I will throw my vote back on you for your sheer anti-town behavior and regardless of your role I'll consider it a positive for getting rid of such a liability and a highly likely to be scum one at that.

The game is newbie 750 and I am the claimed doc however it is also possible that I am a VT. Thus the WIFOM.

[Mylynes]

See the problem here is that you're trying to hide behind a power role claim without having to bear the negative of that claim by facing a counterclaim and we have absolutely no reason to allow you to do that.

True I could be scum hiding behind a power role but do you really believe that to be true? If so why?

If I didn’t believe it to be a distinct possibility, I wouldn’t be putting you in the position I am, now would I? You’re scum there’s an early push on you and a push on no one else, the person who just put you at L-1 had a very reasonable response and you’re feeling boxed in so you decide to claim a PR but because of your reading you think you can set it up so you don’t have to risk a counterclaim and by taking yourself off the board for potentially being lynched the first two days you help your team a lot.

Maybe you’re failing to see the issue clearly here, let’s look at the difference between playing this straight and your failure of an idea…

Scenario A) You’re town and we lynch incorrectly D1 and D2.
Normal) We’re in LYLO, but hopefully we have a shot because of the various connections that have been made.
Your Plan) We’re forced to lynch you, you’re town, town loses, scum wins.
Advantage: Normal

Scenario B) You’re town and we lynch correctly D1 and/or D2.
Normal) We win the game or can draw connections to find the other scum with at least two lynches available.
Your Plan) We win the game or can draw connections but are forced to waste a lynch on you D3 leaving us in probable LYLO.
Advantage: Neutral to Normal

Scenario C) You’re scum
Normal) We likely lynch you today and use the connections to find your scum partner. We gain a big advantage from lynching correctly D1.
Your Plan) Instead of lynching you D1 we push lynching you off to D3, because of that our chances of lynching scum are severely reduced. We get a lynch off scum on D3, but we begin D4 in probable LYLO with no useful connections from lynching you because we

have

to lynch you.
Advantage: Normal

None of these scenarios helps the town, worst case we’re equally as well off if you play this straight. You are not a special and unique flower who the rules somehow don’t apply to.

Please explain how I could possibly WIFOM the scum without simultaneously WIFOMing the town?

THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS NOT TO WIFOM SCUM. THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO FIND SCUM AND KILL THEM AND YOU ARE MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE TOWN TO DO THAT.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

***If you do not claim whether you are the doctor or a vanilla townie, I will cast a vote to lynch you as soon as we move onto a sixth page and I will advocate for someone else to do the same. Unless you believe there to be four other people willing to support your insipid plan you will almost certainly be lynched, hurting whichever side you represent. Chose wisely.***

I am the doctor and you failed to mention the possibility of me playing the way to draw out scum as the doctor. You also fail to see that this could help throw off the mafias nightgame. If you are able to kill me then based on re-reading your moves so far and based on how you have played in your previous games I have a very strong feeling that you are scum.

Before my possible mislynch I would like to

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

and

FOS: jmj3000 and danakillsu

[Mylynes]

Although Mylynes feels very scummy to me. Lynch all liars. Claiming Doc and then trying to pretend to be Vanilla Town? Only Scum need to lie.

When did I lie? I cleary explained how what I have done can be useful to the town and pointed to a game where the same situation led to a town win on D2. If it has worked before then why couldn't it be able to work now?

[Mylynes]

By claiming both Doc and Vanilla Town you were lying, since you can't be both. Now that you've claimed Doc (at least, I think you did) you are at least being definitive.

I claimed doctor. I only pointed out the possibility of me being a vanilla. So although I could be lying and may be a vanilla townie I do not see how that hurts the town. It is the entire point of my WIFOM against the scum.

[Mylynes]

@DDD

Draw out? If you mean a counterclaim then there's absolutely no chance of that because it doesn't benefit scum at all to go one for one. If you're suggesting that your obnoxiously scummy play will draw scum to your "easy" lynch, small problem there because the town is trying to lynch the scummy players as well. You do not make things easier for the town by making yourself an easy target, you make things harder.

I don't think you understand. Although you have seemed to find me very suspicious from my very first post, other than the doc question which was leading up to my claim and helping to build WIFOM against the scum what have I done? What I did do though was make it seem like I was under a lot more pressure than I was? If anyone seriously thought I was worried about being pressured by:

Page one right after my first post

Vote: Mylynes

Obvscum.

Then

Still RVS.

vote: Mylynes

Then on page 2:

vote:Mylynes

to get discussion going.

And then page 3

Mylynes, it seems to me that you are just posting walls of text to try and discourage us from reading them and determining if there is anything scummy in your posts, which to me is very scummy in and of itself.

Vote: Mylynes

I believe I have taken a chance to use my random votes against me and make it seem like I was under more pressure than I really was to make me an attractive target for the scum. Right now the scum would want me dead right now just to secure a mislynch more and I believe DDD to be scum playing his role perfectly other than taking the bait and trying to lych me from the very beginning.

No, I see it perfectly well. Except if the scum team has an IQ higher than that of a box of hammers they'd already account for the possibility of a doctor. Your play only makes it easier to locate power roles and thus handle them as scum.

I have a very strong feeling that regardless of your alignment you think you're a whole lot smarter than you actually are.

I have a strong feeling that you are actually smarter then how you have been playing so far. Especially if you were town but that's why I believe you to be scum. Assuming you are scum I think you would have been doing the correct thing to try and lynch me early but you failed to notice there's not very much evidence to go on. Your also not doing much to help the town trying to get me speedylynched.

I know that you are a claimed statistician and we could spend all day talking about who to random lynch and most likely get a misslynch or we can try to find scum.

Why are two newbie players this NK obsessed before the first night? For the town as a whole that's the least important phase of the game. Games are won and lost by what happens in the day phase and Mylynes decided in the interest of some speculative and dubious benefit in that least important phase to throw up a smokescreen for the scum in the most important phase.

I think the NK is important for the scum and for an IC I don't understand why you wouldn't think so. If it allows them to possibly kill one of us and possibly take out a power role I don't see why you don't view it as important. The day phase is more important for us to focus on at the moment but I do not see the harm in explaining how my doctor claim could possibly prevent a NK or at least protect a power role.

If scum want to NK me, they have to ask themselves if they want to risk me being protected. If they want to block me, they have to risk me not being a power role. If they want to kill one of my claimed targets then they have to risk that it's the one I protect.

THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS NOT TO WIFOM SCUM. THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO FIND SCUM AND KILL THEM AND YOU ARE MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE TOWN TO DO THAT.

How is possible night protection bad for the town? And why cant the object of the game be to throw off their nightkill and get a successful lynch? Why not do everything we can to help the town win this game?

Seriously, this was about the worst play ever. BTW we have no reason to suspect you're town so why on Tiger Woods' green Earth would we allow you to dictate whether someone should counterclaim or not. Put it like this... IF YOU ARE NOT THE DOCTOR THEN YOU NEED TO CLAIM VANILLA IN YOUR NEXT POST or else we will allow for counterclaims and if there is one we will lynch you.

Why do you want to out real doctor assuming I am actually a vanilla townie? If this person claimed then they would probably be nightkilled if not lynched.

Whether I am the doctor or a vanilla townie, there would still be two scum out there and instead of searching for 2 scum in a group of 7 townies, we would be searching for 2 scum in a group of 6 townies. Wouldn't this make our chances of randomly lynching scum today better?

I do not think it would be a good idea for the town to be random lynching. Instead I think it would be better if everyone was scumhunting.

Also if we do manage to lynch correctly today my D3 scenario will be a lot safer because one scum will be gone. Based on what I am reading I believe we can get a successful lynch today.

Yes, the guy who unvoted him when he got to L-1 on page three to prevent a quick claim and/or lynch is trying to quicklynch him, child please.

Perhaps you are town and wanting to pull away from a possible quick lynch but I think not. I think you are scum and saw an opportunity to distance yourself from my death.

And? That doesn't mean stalling till deadline helps the town. Essentially the marginal benefit curve is parabolic with an early steep ascent and then a long plateau before eventually falling off. As long as you hit the plateau then you're fine. I'd argue that we've hit that point and while we shouldn't be rushing at this point there's no need to stall either.

To me this reads as, "We should lynch mylynes now. Even though there is definitely at least one other scum out there I would like to end our conversation for the day now."

No, if we get an honest claim than we can proceed as normal where a doc counter claim means we've found scum. Big advantage to the town if that's the case.

Wrong and very scummy of you. A doc counter claim

Could

mean you have scum but if I am a either a vanilla town or scum this move would only serve to out the real doc and probably NK him.

One of the reasons that I claimed early is because as the claimed doctor am currently protected somewhat from a night kill thanks to my WIFOM.

Alright, I'll step away from this game tonight and then come back tomorrow with a more neutral opinion and see how it reads to me then.

Something about this part of your post disturbs me. If you have not been playing with a neutral opinion so far then what kind of opinion have you been playing with?

ok, so my tag skills are not the best >.>

b]Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Could this page one post possibly be an early attempt to create some distance from your scumbuddy?[/quote]

[Mylynes]

Probabilities can be tweaked to suit your position, as even these probabilities are based on

completely random

lynches, and a 100% guarantee that Mylynes is scum.

He also subtly implies that since I'm a newbie, I don't know what's "best" for town...I've already made my feelings clear on the newbie/SE/IC tags and don't feel I need to reiterate them.

I don't see the point in quicklynching Mylynes when we have 2.5 weeks left before deadline. I find it very scummy that DDD is trying to end this day with no new information brought to light.

So for his ad hominem attacks, his attempts to discredit me for no reason, and his strong push to quicklynch, I find DDD to be very scummy. At his point in time, I find Dana's active lurking to be scummier however, and will keep my vote on him. However, DDD has jumped straight to #2 in my FoS list.

Wait, I'm confused. If you're so suspect of DDD, why don't you put more pressure on him rather than Dana? If I'm not mistaken, Dana at L-2, (L-1?), so it seems like accusing DDD but not doing anything cover you from any blame if something goes wrong with Dana. Active lurking sucks, but if have some serious concerns about DDD, so something, don't just talk.

Speaking of doing, I've lost count if Mylynes is at 2 or 3 votes... I'm doing to

Unvote

... but I don't think we should let Mylynes go off so easy let...

As I stated, I FoS DDD, but dana still tops my scum list. Since no-one had presented any case on DDD (other than Mylynes), I wished to bring my FoS to light in case I am NKed tonight and don't have any other chance.

Since I am the doctor I would like to ask; why do you suspect that you will be NKed tonight?

[Mylynes]

If scum want to NK me, they have to ask themselves if they want to risk me being protected. If they want to block me, they have to risk me not being a power role. If they want to kill one of my claimed targets then they have to risk that it's the one I protect.

No. Either they're going to kill you, or they're going to incriminate you. Or you're scum.

They can kill me if they believe me to be the doctor or if they believe me to be vanilla townie they can kill me for my doctor claim or risk a real hidden doctor protecting me. If they kill me believing me to be the doctor then as vanilla townie I would have at least protected power roles.

How is possible night protection bad for the town? And why cant the object of the game be to throw off their nightkill and get a successful lynch? Why not do everything we can to help the town win this game?

Doctors are hardly correct in their choosing. Not to mention there's only a 50% chance that we even have a doctor. Additionally, I doubt you can pull the curtain on scum so effectively in your very first game even using all the information I know about you. That, and I believe you to be scum.

If I were to turn out to be vanilla townie and there is a doctor in the game he could possibly protect me as right now I think I would be the biggest target for a NK if the scum aren't able to lynch me. The doctor could still try to protect whoever he feels would need a protect and allow me to die and get my confirmed townie status while possibly improving his odds of protecting a power role. By reading how the scum may react to my doctor claim wouldn't that make it slightly easier to determine who they may target with their NK and therefor easier to protect against?

Wrong and very scummy of you. A doc counter claim Could mean you have scum but if I am a either a vanilla town or scum this move would only serve to out the real doc and probably NK him.

I interpreted it as you should claim vanilla if you are one. Leaving the opportunity for a doctor counter claim by the real doctor in the future. Not on you, though that wouldn't make sense if DDD doesn't want to give you a free pass..

I am the doctor. I do not see how the possibility I could be vanilla townie could hurt the real doc unless he reveals himself and I also fail to see how that can hurt the town. If I were to claim vanilla townie at this point in time it would not serve to remove the WIFOM because as a claimed vanilla townie I could still possibly be the doctor.

Unvote

[Mylynes]

If scum want to NK me, they have to ask themselves if they want to risk me being protected. If they want to block me, they have to risk me not being a power role. If they want to kill one of my claimed targets then they have to risk that it's the one I protect.

No. Either they're going to kill you, or they're going to incriminate you. Or you're scum.

They can kill me if they believe me to be the doctor or if they believe me to be vanilla townie they can kill me for my doctor claim or risk a real hidden doctor protecting me. If they kill me believing me to be the doctor then as vanilla townie I would have at least protected power roles.

How is possible night protection bad for the town? And why cant the object of the game be to throw off their nightkill and get a successful lynch? Why not do everything we can to help the town win this game?

Doctors are hardly correct in their choosing. Not to mention there's only a 50% chance that we even have a doctor. Additionally, I doubt you can pull the curtain on scum so effectively in your very first game even using all the information I know about you. That, and I believe you to be scum.

If I were to turn out to be vanilla townie and there is a doctor in the game he could possibly protect me as right now I think I would be the biggest target for a NK if the scum aren't able to lynch me. The doctor could still try to protect whoever he feels would need a protect and allow me to die and get my confirmed townie status while possibly improving his odds of protecting a power role. By reading how the scum may react to my doctor claim wouldn't that make it slightly easier to determine who they may target with their NK and therefor easier to protect against?

Wrong and very scummy of you. A doc counter claim Could mean you have scum but if I am a either a vanilla town or scum this move would only serve to out the real doc and probably NK him.

I interpreted it as you should claim vanilla if you are one. Leaving the opportunity for a doctor counter claim by the real doctor in the future. Not on you, though that wouldn't make sense if DDD doesn't want to give you a free pass..

I am the doctor. I do not see how the possibility I could be vanilla townie could hurt the real doc unless he reveals himself and I also fail to see how that can hurt the town. If I were to claim vanilla townie at this point in time it would not serve to remove the WIFOM because as a claimed vanilla townie I could still possibly be the doctor.

Fixed* Sorry for the confusion last post the unvote comment is a quote from Xzys post.
I would still like to

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

for now.

[Mylynes]

If I were to turn out to be vanilla townie and there is a doctor in the game he could possibly protect me as right now I think I would be the biggest target for a NK if the scum aren't able to lynch me.

This notion is laughable. If you're not the real doctor the doctor has zero incentive to protect you. You're either a VT, or scum in that situation. You're screaming scum.

I don't see how this screams scum. Assuming I am the doctor the mentioning of a possible real doc will Will throw off scum as to whether they want to kill me tonight. If scum believe me to be VT they would want to NK me less and probably get me lynched instead but I am still a big target because of the doc claim. If I die as VT at least I protect power roles so really it doesn't matter what the doctor does as long as he remains hidden he can protect whoever he believes the nk to be aimed at.

I frequently try to get doctor protection as scum. That way I can ensure a kill. Your "plan" can easily be a ruse.

Except if there is a doctor and then that would make me VT so by choosing someone else they will be able to limit the killpool for the scum even further while at this point my death would be ok if I am VT. As the claimed doc however I do believe my chances of being NKed to be fairly high.

Alright, when I sit down and look at it objectively most of the indicators points towards Mylynes not being scum. And while reading any of his posts angers up my blood significantly because of the baffling combination of hubris and anti-town behavior that's not a reason to push a case on him. I'm not going to respond to his wall post, because that would require answering in kind and that sort of thing actually hurts the town (wall post battles = bad).

Sources have suggested to me that there's a high probability Linehouse is scum, so...

Vote: Linehouse

That is fine but would you mind answering one of my questions? If you have not been playing with a neutral opinion so far then what kind of opinion have you been playing with?

I am also interested in why you believe linehouse to be scum.

[Mylynes]

If you were VT, what reason would you have for making a spectacle of yourself in the first place? Are you trying to get yourself killed to save other Townies? Because getting lynched as a Townie is not going to help anyone.
If you were the doctor, why did you claim so early?

As VT I would rather not be lynched D1 but I wouldn't mind taking a NK to protect the town. As Doc I wouldn't want to be NKed so the possibility of me being VT is there because as VT my death would protect the rest of the town while also confirming me as townie and possibly helping to draw out the scum. Now the scum have to decide if they want to NK me because of my doc claim or not NK me because of my townie claim.

Also you have unanswered questions from linehouse that you have missed despite him voting for you and pointing out that you missed them. I would like to hear a response to both of them.

would protect Linehouse.

I meant to ask this earlier, but why? I don't understand why you would make a quick post saying you would protect me without providing any reasoning. Is it because you were hoping to gain my trust?

and

Haha. OMGUS much? Fongoid already brought it up, but I'll ask anyway (even though I don't expect you to answer, since you have still yet to answer my first question) why are you suspicious of me? I find this of particular interest because you earlier said you would protect me. Sounds kinda wishy washy to me.

Mod: I will be unavailable the next two days (Tues and Wed) due to a trip, so I will most likely not be able to post much (if at all).

[Mylynes]

Mylynes still isn't making any sense to me.

I apologize. Anything in particular you would like me to explain? If it is about my doc claim I have seen the claim done around the same time and I have seen it lead to a perfect town win. I have also seen it prevent a NK. This claim has been used more than one time.

[Mylynes]

Perfect wins don't happen often. It isn't worth confusing the town over.

Then for now lets focus on catching scum. Anyone have any ideas on where we should go from here? It is getting later in the day phase and the games activity level seems to have dropped a lot recently. Or is this around the normal speed for this game?

[Mylynes]

First off in newbie games that's not really right. You're much more likely to find scum in the middle 50% than the bottom and top 25 percents combined. Playing aggresive is risky, lurking is actually risky, scum are much more likely to sit in the middle and do enough not to arouse suspicion, but not too much where they might make mistakes. Much like you've done.

While I believe this to be true in most cases I do not believe this alone would be enough to go on as most town could also be in the middle area. I am definitely for interrogations though and there is the chance that your logic would be more plausible considering Linehouse is SE.

Nobody should be lurking because you would either be scum trying to get away with lurking or you are a townie and not doing anything to help the town by not being here. I wouldn't go as far as to say lynch all lurkers but I do a blatant lurker would deserve our attention.

In fact from reading into you DDD it seems you have a history of choosing to lurk as scum. Not that this is what you are doing atm but you are right in saying that lurking is risky.

By going through the motions you've done everything you're "supposed" to do, but it doesn't appear to me that there's any conviction behind any of it. You random vote because you're supposed to, then drop some minor suspicions and then vote for a lurker. It's like you don't have your own point of view, you have an idea of how town is supposed to play and you're matching that. To which I say hello scum.

As this is something new to consider and will hopefully promote conversation I would like to

Unvote

. I am still suspicious of you but for now I would like to spend a good bit of time analyzing danakillsu and jmj3000.

I would like to vote for danakillsu at this point but I wont because I dont want him not being scum and possibly getting quick hammered because I put him back at L-1.

Would also like to point out that before your suspicions danakillsu was the first person to claim to be suspicious of linehouse and although the claim has just been revoked I believe this information could be useful.

Current suspicion list:
1. danakillsu
2. jmj3000
3. DDD
4. Linehouse

[Mylynes]

Quote:
Why are two newbie players this NK obsessed before the first night? For the town as a whole that's the least important phase of the game. Games are won and lost by what happens in the day phase and Mylynes decided in the interest of some speculative and dubious benefit in that least important phase to throw up a smokescreen for the scum in the most important phase.

I think the NK is important for the scum and for an IC I don't understand why you wouldn't think so.

If it allows them to possibly kill one of us and possibly take out a power role I don't see why you don't view it as important. The day phase is more important for us to focus on at the moment but I do not see the harm in explaining how my doctor claim could possibly prevent a NK or at least protect a power role.

Mylynes, take notice of the bolded statement. Yes, a NK is important for scum, but as town,

we shouldn't be focused on whats important for scum.

Also, your gambit of trying to get doctor protection tonight, and claiming doctor, or whatever it is you are doing, is not helping town at all. Trying to influence the doctor's choice is one of the scummiest things to do. You are just pinging louder and louder as scum to me, and as such, I am going to

vote: mylynes.

I disagree. If it is important to the scum it should be important to the town as well. I don't see the harm in trying to have a little defence against the scums night actions.

Also, if I am not the doctor then the doctor is still able to do whatever he wants and still operate from the shadows regardless of my moves. I am the doctor though.

[Mylynes]

Also in response to, "we shouldn't be focused on whats important for scum."
I agree we should be more focused on D1 right now and D1s lynch but I believe the night phase still deserves our attention. Just not our full attention.

@animorpherv1 - Thanks for what?

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(3) Mylynes - danakillsu, Arthur Dent, jmj3000
(1) danakillsu – Linehouse
(1) Linehouse - Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not voting:

animorpherv1, Fongoid, Mylynes, Xzy

:arrow: Day 1 - Deadline (Link to countdown): January 1 2010

[Mylynes]

Our defense against the scum's night actions is our lynch. We shouldn't be doing gambits like yours and relying on the towns power roles protecting us.

No matter who is lynched there will be a night phase after D1. If my claim can possibly throw off tonights nk then I don't see the harm in trying.

I have clearly pointed out how my claim can be useful to the town and I think this quote shows how much you have paid attention: "Also, your gambit of trying to get doctor protection tonight, and claiming doctor, or whatever it is you are doing, is not helping town at all."

You seem very against my claim and instead of just saying, "We shouldn't be doing gambits like yours" how about adding more insight as to why we shouldn't? You are coming off as scummy to me because I believe the scum should be more against my claim than the town. I also still strongly believe that the scum will want to get me lynched today because of my claim.

You then go on to wrongly accuse me of, "trying to influence the doctors choice." You clearly refuse to view my actions from a doctors perspective and considering I am a VT and there is a doctor in this game the only thing he should not do is reveal himself. He would still be free to make his own protection choice based on whatever he wishes to base his decision on. I doubt I will be the only possible protection target he can come up with and I have also said it is ok to not protect me. It is only useful against the scum to believe that if they attack me I COULD be protected.

As the doctor it would have been a very bad move to just claim doctor without having the possibility I could be protected because then I would simply be dead on the first night. If I were to die as a VT then at least I protect the rest of the town.

[Mylynes]

Why did you claim at all? You were not in danger of being lynched, yet you claimed. It just feels to me like you freaked out because you felt like you were in danger of being lynched. The scum wouldn't be against your gambit, seeing as how you have just given them a huge target on a silver platter. If you survive the day, you are dead tonight because the scum will target you as the biggest perceived threat to them winning. We don't KNOW there is a doctor in this game, seeing as there is a 50% chance that we don't. I, for one, am not going to blindly follow your gambit. I'm not naive.

No I wasn't in danger of being lynched and have you not been paying attention at all? Look at newbie game 750 for one example. Doc claim on page 2 same wifom setup.

The scum will want me dead because I am the doctor but if they want to NK me tonight they have to risk me not being the doctor. "If scum want to kill me, they have to ask themselves if they want to risk me being protected. If they want to block me, they have to risk me not being a power role. If they want to kill one of my claimed targets then they have to risk that it's the one I protect. etc., etc.. "

"The goal is not to convince the town about whether I am the doctor or not, it is to instill doubt in the scum as to whether their night game will work. The way that I've been wording stuff is specifically designed to leave enough room for the scum to think I'm lying for them to be forced into suboptimal kill targets."

[Mylynes]

I would also like to

Vote: danakillsu

. Hes been on my top suspicion list for a while and I would like to see what he has to say when he comes back.

[Mylynes]

Actually I have just noticed that this is not the only game danakillsu is playing. I will leave my vote on him for now but I have a couple of questions.

@danakillsu - Exactly how many games are you playing right now? Also do you plan on lurking here because of this or do you believe you can handle playing these games at the same time? Correct me if I'm wrong but im seeing recent activity in at least 5 other games..

I need some time to go over all of this information but I would like to see an answer to the questions above.

[Mylynes]

@danakillsu - Exactly how many games are you playing right now? Also do you plan on lurking here because of this or do you believe you can handle playing these games at the same time? Correct me if I'm wrong but im seeing recent activity in at least 5 other games..

No, you're right. I can keep up with all of my games (I think it's six). I do not plan on lurking. Let me read the new material and get back to you.

You can keep up with all of your games but you aren't sure how many you are playing?

[Mylynes]

If my claim can possibly throw off tonights nk then I don't see the harm in trying.

You shouldn't be making that gambit because,

1) You're confusing the town
2) If you're town, and you get lynched. You failed. You won't expose scum despite what you strongly believe.
3) This is your first game
4) It won't work
5) Possibly an attempt to draw out the doctor (which is plausible day 1)
6) Possibly an attempt to influence the doctor
7) You came off as desperate.

You don't understand any of those reasons? You're now in the position where even if you're the doctor, the town will still believe you're WIFOMing or lying. We're forced to lynch you or let you try to bring your WIFOM to fruition tonight. I don't like it, at all.

1) If there's something you don't understand then ask.
2) That's why I hope we can lynch scum D1.
3) Your point?
4) Why not?
5) I believe I have said more than once that I think it would be a bad idea for the doctor to claim in the case I am VT.
6) I'm not attempting to make decisions for the doctor. Also in the case I'm VT.
7) Really? When did this happen? I've been hinting at my claim from the beginning and I don't believe I was actually under a lot of pressure at the time. If anything I exaggerated the amount of pressure I was under back then.

You don't understand any of those reasons? You're now in the position where even if you're the doctor, the town will still believe you're WIFOMing or lying. We're forced to lynch you or let you try to bring your WIFOM to fruition tonight. I don't like it, at all.

Yes I am WIFOMing and it is directed at the scum. I don't see how my WIFOM hurts the town. As far as lying goes I don't recall lying. If I say I am the doctor with a possibility of being VT then I have not lied by saying I am one or the other. Why would you be "forced" to lynch me and what is the harm in my WIFOM?

[Mylynes]

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer. Mylynes play has just completely rendered the town unable to scumhunt and even if he's town I think it's better to send it to night and come back tomorrow with a fresh start.

Mylynes, the reason Kairyuu's gambit worked is not because of WIFOMing the scum, it worked because he is a good player who was capable of leading the town. If he hadn't pulled the gambit there's a good chance that town still would've won because Kairyuu still would have been able to scumhunt and capably lead the town. You have not demonstrated these abilities at all and thus have merely hurt the town by shrowding the entire game in a fog of WIFOM that they've/we've been unable to get past.

You really seem to want me D1 lynched DDD. Especially considering I am the claimed doctor.

I'm either the doctor or a VT. How does this hurt the town and why are you not capable of hunting scum because of this claim? No I'm not as experienced as Kairyuu but that doesn't mean my claim can't help the town.

[Mylynes]

Or you're scum. In fact your claim is all you keep falling back on as the reason for not lynching you and that's always a weak reason.

Anyone could be scum. You say I am falling back on my claim as the reason for not lynching me and say that it's a weak reason but isn't this also the weak reason that you want to get me lynched? If not feel free to point out why you think I'm scum other than my claim. And yea I think me being the doctor would qualify as a reason to at least make it to D2.

And you continue to not read what I write.

I have read much more on you than you realize. I have focused on your activity in this game but have also read much more than this game alone.

When you step away from the norm it is your responsibility to ensure that things continue as smoothly as they would have otherwise, you have failed in this regard.

Mind giving me a list of all my responsibilities? Lol.. but yea this is my first game and I am here primarily to experiment and learn. Despite me stepping away from the norm you should know as IC that as a newbie I am still unsure as to what the norm is. I doubt any new player would know what the norm is here.

My point isn't that Kairyuu was more experienced, but that he is a capable scumhunter and persuasive and able to lead the town.

Wouldn't him being more experienced and being a more capable scumhunter/persuasive/leading the town go hand in hand? I believe your point was very clearly that Kairyuu is more experienced than me.

You have been utterly unimpressive in your scumhunting with only a sad stab at a case on me that fizzled out and by your inability to keep the town from focusing on your WIFOM you've demonstrated no leadership capabilities.

I'm pretty sure that you aren't the only one I've been suspicious of. Also I believe I withdrew my vote on you to pursue danakillsu and jmj3000 but now danakillsu is seeming possibly less scummy to me. Don't think I forgot about you just because I put my vote on someone else.

I've already suggested that it would be a good idea to not focus on the WIFOM for the moment but people seem to still want to focus on it. Forgive me for not having complete control over the town as I do not wish to be town leader.

You decided to play this way, it is your responsibility to make something positive out of it and you have not. At this point I truly believe it's better to take a crack at the chance that you're scum and more importantly clear the air for us tomorrow.

I won't have a chance to make something positive out my until the first night phase. Seems like you don't want me to have that chance. Unless you count the conversation resulting from my claim as something positive.

[Mylynes]

1) If there's something you don't understand then ask.
2) That's why I hope we can lynch scum D1.
3) Your point?
4) Why not?
5) I believe I have said more than once that I think it would be a bad idea for the doctor to claim in the case I am VT.
6) I'm not attempting to make decisions for the doctor. Also in the case I'm VT.
7) Really? When did this happen? I've been hinting at my claim from the beginning and I don't believe I was actually under a lot of pressure at the time. If anything I exaggerated the amount of pressure I was under back then.

1) No. It isn't possible anymore. Your webs of WIFOM are too extensive. The only choice is to lynch you, or go after someone else. There's not much you can do to convince me you're still not WIFOMing.
2) Isn't this the same in every situation? Who wants to lynch town? Raise your hands.
3) I don't think you have enough experience to know how to effectively use a gambit. You can't just use one whenever you please, the timing is the most important factor.
4) Because it won't.
5) You put the hypothetical doctor in this situation.
6) You've gone from "It'd be a smart move to protect me as I most likely will be targeted" to "It's a decent move" to "I never said that."
7) You could have been hammered. You claimed doctor and had a lot more breathing room. The doctor claiming doctor is a bad move, and so is a VT claiming doctor. What does that make you?

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer.

Oddly enough I was going to in my previous post. To think Mylynes would be lynched by now seems off.

If people don't have any qualms with me bumping Mylynes up to L-1 then I will make that vote. I'm not denying my second proposed option. I just don't have a viable target on my radar that stands up to Mylynes.

I noticed you singled in on one of my stronger points, DDD. I hope this isn't opportunity knocking. In the beginning, I assumed cop. Then starting wagon. Now, I'm not so sure.

1) I don't believe I have said that I am no longer WIFOMING. In fact im pretty sure that I am still claiming doctor with the possibility of me being VT.
2) I'm fairly sure that two people will want to lynch town although I doubt they will raise their hands.
3) If timing is the issue I've seen this claim used more than once. I've seen it used on page 2 with not much information to go on and I've also seen it used later in D1. The timing seems right to me.
4) Sorry but I feel that "Because it won't." doesn't really offer much of an explanation as to how my claim can't possibly work.
5) And? This is the point of my WIFOM.
6) Exact text not found on any of your quotes. Anyways would it not be smart to protect the person you believe to be targeted for a NK? You completely ignore me telling the possible doctor that he is free to operate completely on his own? You also completely ignore me telling the possible doctor that not protecting me would be perfectly fine? As VT not only would my death from NK confirm me townie while protecting possible power roles but choosing not to protect me could also end up saving someone else in case the scum decide not to attempt a NK on me.

7) I could have been quickhammered at one point in the game but my votes against me at that time seemed pretty random. I seriously doubt I would have been quickhammered at that point though. You fail to notice that from before the game started I have planned on claiming doctor.
You also fail to notice that I posted the following on page 2 with 2 obviously random votes and 1 vote that seems pretty random being the second post in the game. "@everyone - Every move I have made has had a purpose and things should get interesting later in the day as I have a plan that should be useful in throwing off the scum."

Do you really believe me to be pressured by 2 votes that were claimed as random and 1 vote that wasn't claimed as random but was posted as the second post in the game with almost no information to go on? If so why? I dont see how random votes made me claim to protect myself. I was planning on claiming before this game even started but after I saw my role as doc or VT.

Please read carefully into what I have done so far.. especially early in the game.

[Mylynes]

Nope, I want you gone becuase of scummy things you did earlier, your inability to scumhunt, and to rid the town of the paralyzing web of WIFOM you've thrown over it. Besides, you want scum to think you're either the doctor or vanilla townie, how am I supposed to know whether you're the doctor or a vanilla townie then? I see no reason to respect a doctor claim that you yourself won't stand behind.

What scummy things did I do earlier, other than being the only person trying to get me lynched from his very first post and your brief attempt to mark linehouse as scum what have you done to scumhunt?

How could I possibly make the scum think I am either a doc of VT without making the town think the same thing? You may not like not knowing which one I am but AGAIN I would like to ask how does this hurt the town? Whether I am doc or VT my claim should not be harmful for the town.

And that's why you look before you leap, if you read as many games you claim then you would know that what Kai did is not normal. If you had asked me about the idea in the RVS I would've told you it was a bad idea. But you didn't think this through and now we have to deal with the consequences of your actions. I am here to act as a guide and advisor, I am not here to hand out second chances to people I have no reason to trust.

After this game started most of my reading has been me looking into your previous games and I know more about you than you think. Great job as guide and advisor so far btw. Also what happened to my first chance? You have wanted me dead since the very first posts of this game.

It may not feel like it, but I gave you a chance to make this work, I backed away from your lynch and bothered someone else, but instead of the town springing forward, the game stagnated and people came back to the same old arguments about you. Something has to change and since we don't just force replace out an entire game based on how it's going the thing that has to change is you.

If I recall correctly the only votes on me were your vote and two random votes then jmj3000 put me at L-1 for posting too much. At that point you pulled back to put me at L-2 and called jmj3000 aggressive then never really followed up on pursuing the possibility that jmj3000 could be scum. You also didn't do much to pursue linehouse either. Seems like you only want it to seem like you are scumhunting but so far I'm the only target you have been aggressive towards.

I think you did this to avoid suspicion as you were the only person who really wanted me dead other than jmj3000 at that time and you could have been seen as scummy for my early mislynch. This is also not the first time you have decided to mention backing away from me. In fact I believe you used it rather defensively before. "Yes, the guy who unvoted him when he got to L-1 on page three to prevent a quick claim and/or lynch is trying to quicklynch him, child please."

I find it very interesting that you would say something like that and then later on say something like this: "Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer."

See, you're giving up the day phase for the night phase. You've chosen to play NOT when the town is strongest in the day, but when the town is weakest, at night. If we win this game it will because of what we do during the day since you basically admit here that you'll only be of use at night then there's no reason to keep you around.

Wrong, I believe I have stated somewhere that I believe the day phase to be more important. I would prefer to scumhunt now AND possibly throw off the NK tonight. Don't assume just because I have a night strategy I do not have a day strategy. Also I would like to ask you a question which as IC you should know the answer to. As the doctor during which phase is my ability to protect someone used? Night or day?

And you're right I don't think Mylynes is any more likely to be scum than pure random chance, but when I look at how this game is going I do not see the town winning if Mylynes is alive, things like morale, motivation, and clarity of purpose are extremely underrated in how they relate to scumhunting and Mylynes has hurt the town in all those factors. We obviously can't leave scum-Mylynes alive and town-Mylynes is providing too much cover for scum. He's had opportunities to rectify the situation and he's either unwilling or unable to do so, which means it's time to take the problem into our own hands.

So now you are admitting that you do not believe me to be scum yet you still seem to want me dead very badly. How very scummy of you. Whether you realize it or not I HAVE been scumhunting and you are the primary suspect.

Due to a better read on you right now I believe you are scum. This would be based on your previous history and also based on the quality, consistency, and conviction of your arguments. Sound familiar?
So..

Unvote

Vote: DDD

Still suspicious of jmj3000 and I am less suspicious of danakillsu now.

@DDD - I have some questions for you.
1. You said you want me gone because of scummy things I did earlier and fail to mention said things then go on to say that you don't think I am any more likely to be scum than pure random chance. Please explain this.

2. You claim that you are here to act as a guide and advisor. What have you done as guide and advisor so far?

3. Other than me who have you really pursued as scum?


@Linehouse & Fongoid - Do you still believe danakillsu to be scum after finding out that he is playing at least 5 other games? If so then why?

[Mylynes]

5) And? This is the point of my WIFOM.

Did you just admit the purpose of your gambit was to draw out the doc in contradiction to your previous statement on that matter?

I speak about the hypothetical doc in various situations as I may be a VT. I would very much like to see the scum guess as to which one I am tonight. How does me thinking it would be a bad idea for the hypothetical doc to claim in the case I am VT = me wanting to draw out the doc?

You said "5) You put the hypothetical doctor in this situation." Perhaps I should have been more clear but the point of my WIFOM is to instill doubt in the scum about whether I am the doc or a VT. Speaking of a hypothetical doc serves to tip the scale more towards VT.

If you are unsure as to whether I am the doc or not then the same can be said for the scum.

[Mylynes]

5) And? This is the point of my WIFOM.

Did you just admit the purpose of your gambit was to draw out the doc in contradiction to your previous statement on that matter?

I speak about the hypothetical doc in various situations as I may be a VT. I would very much like to see the scum guess as to which one I am tonight. How does me thinking it would be a bad idea for the hypothetical doc to claim in the case I am VT = me wanting to draw out the doc?

You said "5) You put the hypothetical doctor in this situation." Perhaps I should have been more clear but the point of my WIFOM is to instill doubt in the scum about whether I am the doc or a VT. Speaking of a hypothetical doc serves to tip the scale more towards VT.

If you are unsure as to whether I am the doc or not then the same can be said for the scum.

Why on earth would you talk about hypothectically being the doc or town? Either you are or you aren't? Stop conviently switching your story around.
Yes are the doc, no you're not the doc, yes you are the doc...I feel like I'm at a tennis match and you're the ball. Stop bouncing around, dammit.

Because although I am the claimed doc I would like for the scum to think I may be VT. And because if I am a VT and there is a doctor in this game I don't think he should make himself a target right now.

My story isn't being switched around. I am still the claimed doc with possibility of me being VT.

If I were to claim doc when I did with no possibility of being VT then as the doc I would be NKed if not lynched. If I am a VT then being NKed isn't as bad. This makes the scum have to decide whether they really want to kill me tonight or not.

[Mylynes]

@Linehouse & Fongoid - Do you still believe danakillsu to be scum after finding out that he is playing at least 5 other games? If so then why?

Simply put, yes. I don't see what him being in 5 games has to do with anything. I could care less if he was in 100 games at once. What I'm looking at is his play in THIS game. And in THIS game, he is acting like scum (IMO). He doesn't post much, he doesn't fully answer questions, and he doesn't seem to be really all that interested in participating during the Day. I feel that all those point to possible scum, hence my vote.

All of the evidence you have on him seems to relate to his inactivity. Fongoid in particular said his vote is on dana primarily for the active lurking. I will have to look closer at everything he has done so far. Even though he seems to be playing more games than he can handle it is possible that he could be scum and the number of games he is playing should not be considered a good excuse. I need to do a re-read on him.

As for you and your little WIFOM argument, let me say this: the scum know for sure whether or not you are lying (assuming you really are town). You aren't confusing them or making life difficult for them at all, in fact, you are probably making everything easier for them. So please stop with your little WIFOM and start looking at people and how they are playing. That is how we're gonna find scum.

The scum only know for sure that I am town. They have no way of knowing whether I am the doc or a VT. So yea point refuted. Unless you can tell me how they would know whether I am doc or VT.

Also I am looking at people and how they are playing and I think DDD is scum. I am still suspicious of both jmj3000 and danakillsu.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, as you said, the scum only know for sure you are town. Now, what is the sum's win condition? Oh yeah, IT'S TO TRY AND ELIMINATE TOWN.

Your point? Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the the same thing apply for everyone? Don't the scum know who is scum and who isn't? Wouldn't know for sure that everyone is town other than themselves?

[Mylynes]

Wouldn't they know*

[Mylynes]

You know what I wrote out counter arguments to everything you said in the beginning of your post Mylynes, but it’s all irrelevant because it comes down to one thing.

Your gambit has led to people excessively focusing on you, it has allowed the game to stagnate when it is not focused on your stupid claim, and it had enabled scum to hide in the background. These are facts that you have been unable to argue and they are negatives so large that they subsume any possible benefits your stupid WIFOM offers the town. The above also ignores the distinct possibility that you are scum from a neutral perspective. Given this there is a distinct advantage to the town in lynching you because beyond the possibility that you are scum it also clears the most detrimental player from the board.

Wouldn't it be bad for the town to lynch a townie and worse for the town to lynch it's doctor? You have wanted me dead since the game started and for some reason you have not only wanted to kill me as the doc but also wanted to out any possible doc should I turn out to be VT. If anything I doubt the scum are hiding in the background especially since you seem to enjoy getting an "easy misslynch" when you play as scum. How is there a distinct advantage to the town in lynching the doc OR a VT? We should be focused on lynching scum.

~~~

1. You said you want me gone because of scummy things I did earlier and fail to mention said things then go on to say that you don't think I am any more likely to be scum than pure random chance. Please explain this.

[quote="Debonair Danny DiPietro]Scum posting pointless filler. This recap doesn't help the town at all, but looks busy.

What?

As Mylynes should know from going through my games the last newbie game I IC'ed one of the scum immediately opened with "interesting questions" to learn and get reads on people. In the game I modded another scum did the exact same thing. These questions are of no practical use and yet they look busy and is answered "incorrectly" can be twisted to bad end. Classic scum tactic.

Ah I see so because someone else asked "interesting questions" and turned out to be scum I must be scum because I also started my first game with "interesting questions." Flawless logic.

It was early in the game and how I chose to attempt an early read on people based on their responses. The actual questions were fairly random and meant mostly to get some conversation started. Much like a random vote.

The above are scumtells I mentioned early in the game. At a certain point (five pages) I look to do a numerical analysis and that came back heavily town on you, if you are scum that would break a five game trend of correctly identifying four town players in each game. So I have contradictory information between the scumtells and my numbers; I generally trust my numbers but at this point because of the bolded above you deserve to die.

If you are so trusting of your numbers I am interested in what your "numerical analysis" consists of. Although despite you claiming to trust your numbers you still want me dead. Interesting.

2. You claim that you are here to act as a guide and advisor. What have you done as guide and advisor so far?

I see three posts that meet the criteria, my intro, my suggestion to you to recap privately and answering a question from Fongoid about the wiki. Personally, I believe the IC to be a more passive role, I’m here as a resource for people to use, not to train you people to play follow the IC.

Ok so as guide and advisor you managed to introduce yourself, tell fongoid that the wiki is unreliable, and what do you mean by asking me to recap privately? Wow it seems you sure have been busy. >,>

3. Other than me who have you really pursued as scum?

Who have I pursued? Linehouse, I questioned jmj a little and I think fongoid have a useful back and forth going as well.

Well first off your case against Linehouse seemed to consist only of you claiming he is scum because he is not playing risky. After this post I dont see you doing anything to follow up on your suspicion. I also dont see you doing much at all to pursue jmj as scum and I dont recall you trying to build a case against fongoid either. The only person you have really tried to get lynched so far is me.

Due to a better read on you right now I believe you are scum. This would be based on your previous history and also based on the quality, consistency, and conviction of your arguments. Sound familiar? It is also based on me analyzing you from all of your potential roles and your behavior which seems antitown to me. Things like you trying to provoke a doc claim and you trying so desperately to get me lynched despite you not having a case against me for being scum. The town has nothing to gain from lynching a townie today.
So..

Unvote

Vote: DDD

Nope your read on me is terrible and while you won’t admit it I’d bet five bucks that the primary reason you think I’m scum is because my behavior very superficially matches that of scum in 750. Of course on actual examination the comparison falls apart, but at this point I have yet to see anything from you that suggests that you’re capable of such analysis.[/quote]
Actually no. I don't believe you were in 750 and unlike you with your, "interesting questions" argument I am using YOUR history to get a read on YOUR playstyle and not someone elses.

1. I don't believe you have answered my first question.
2. and 3. To me it doesn't seem like you have done much of anything as guide and advisor and it doesn't seem like you have really attempted to scumhunt either. Do you really believe yourself to be guiding the town or trying to pursue anyone other than myself as being scum?

[Mylynes]

You might as well clarify once and for all what your role is, and if you do so you should also agree that you will abandon this gambit for the rest of the game. It won't give you a free pass, but with the WIFOM out of the way I believe we can all sit back and take a breath, pursue your lynch or go back and find someone else.

I have half a mind to bring you up to L-1, but that could potentially put us in a bad situation. I don't see the rush, but consider yourself already at L-1.

I am the doctor. If it helps to put hypothetical situations aside I am all for focusing on scumhunting for now. However what I have said can't be unsaid. No matter what I say now scum will not be sure whether they should kill me tonight or not.

So.. I am willing to abandon mentioning my gambit for as long as you want but despite what I do now the gambit will still exist. As town this would best be ignored for the moment if it is holding anyone back from scumhunting. The deadline is getting closer and I think it would be wise to put some thought into our day phase while we can.

[Mylynes]

You know what I wrote out counter arguments to everything you said in the beginning of your post Mylynes, but it’s all irrelevant because it comes down to one thing.

Your gambit has led to people excessively focusing on you, it has allowed the game to stagnate when it is not focused on your stupid claim, and it had enabled scum to hide in the background. These are facts that you have been unable to argue and they are negatives so large that they subsume any possible benefits your stupid WIFOM offers the town. The above also ignores the distinct possibility that you are scum from a neutral perspective. Given this there is a distinct advantage to the town in lynching you because beyond the possibility that you are scum it also clears the most detrimental player from the board.

Wouldn't it be bad for the town to lynch a townie and worse for the town to lynch it's doctor? You have wanted me dead since the game started and for some reason you have not only wanted to kill me as the doc but also wanted to out any possible doc should I turn out to be VT. If anything I doubt the scum are hiding in the background especially since you seem to enjoy getting an "easy misslynch" when you play as scum. How is there a distinct advantage to the town in lynching the doc OR a VT? We should be focused on lynching scum.

1. You said you want me gone because of scummy things I did earlier and fail to mention said things then go on to say that you don't think I am any more likely to be scum than pure random chance. Please explain this.

[quote="Debonair Danny DiPietro]Scum posting pointless filler. This recap doesn't help the town at all, but looks busy.[/quote]
What?

As Mylynes should know from going through my games the last newbie game I IC'ed one of the scum immediately opened with "interesting questions" to learn and get reads on people. In the game I modded another scum did the exact same thing. These questions are of no practical use and yet they look busy and is answered "incorrectly" can be twisted to bad end. Classic scum tactic.

Ah I see so because someone else asked "interesting questions" and turned out to be scum I must be scum because I also started my first game with "interesting questions." Flawless logic.

It was early in the game and how I chose to attempt an early read on people based on their responses. The actual questions were fairly random and meant mostly to get some conversation started. Much like a random vote.

The above are scumtells I mentioned early in the game. At a certain point (five pages) I look to do a numerical analysis and that came back heavily town on you, if you are scum that would break a five game trend of correctly identifying four town players in each game. So I have contradictory information between the scumtells and my numbers; I generally trust my numbers but at this point because of the bolded above you deserve to die.

If you are so trusting of your numbers I am interested in what your "numerical analysis" consists of. Although despite you claiming to trust your numbers you still want me dead. Interesting.

2. You claim that you are here to act as a guide and advisor. What have you done as guide and advisor so far?

I see three posts that meet the criteria, my intro, my suggestion to you to recap privately and answering a question from Fongoid about the wiki. Personally, I believe the IC to be a more passive role, I’m here as a resource for people to use, not to train you people to play follow the IC.

Ok so as guide and advisor you managed to introduce yourself, tell fongoid that the wiki is unreliable, and what do you mean by asking me to recap privately? Wow it seems you sure have been busy. >,>

3. Other than me who have you really pursued as scum?

Who have I pursued? Linehouse, I questioned jmj a little and I think fongoid have a useful back and forth going as well.

Well first off your case against Linehouse seemed to consist only of you claiming he is scum because he is not playing risky. After this post I dont see you doing anything to follow up on your suspicion. I also dont see you doing much at all to pursue jmj as scum and I dont recall you trying to build a case against fongoid either. The only person you have really tried to get lynched so far is me.

Due to a better read on you right now I believe you are scum. This would be based on your previous history and also based on the quality, consistency, and conviction of your arguments. Sound familiar? It is also based on me analyzing you from all of your potential roles and your behavior which seems antitown to me. Things like you trying to provoke a doc claim and you trying so desperately to get me lynched despite you not having a case against me for being scum. The town has nothing to gain from lynching a townie today.
So..

Unvote

Vote: DDD

Nope your read on me is terrible and while you won’t admit it I’d bet five bucks that the primary reason you think I’m scum is because my behavior very superficially matches that of scum in 750. Of course on actual examination the comparison falls apart, but at this point I have yet to see anything from you that suggests that you’re capable of such analysis.

Actually no. I don't believe you were in 750 and unlike you with your, "interesting questions" argument I am using YOUR history to get a read on YOUR playstyle and not someone elses.

1. I don't believe you have answered my first question.
2. and 3. To me it doesn't seem like you have done much of anything as guide and advisor and it doesn't seem like you have really attempted to scumhunt either. Do you really believe yourself to be guiding the town or trying to pursue anyone other than myself as being scum?

FIXED

[Mylynes]

Well it appears that since I missed a quote tag you completely mangled the whole thing and then tried to refute things that weren't even arguments themselves, they were evidence. And so the entire thing is an unreadable mass, well done.

Actually you still have yet to answer question number one and I dont believe your answers for 2 & 3. Sorry but I do not believe you have really pursued anyone else as scum other than me. If you haven't already I think you should read https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _a_good_IC

I also don't think your intro was that helpful. You claim that you are here to help guide people but other than telling fongoid that the wiki is unreliable I don't see what you have done as guide.

Oh and I'm your IC here to help guide youse fine folk if you have any questions about the game. You can call me Debonair Danny DiPietro, Danny, Triple D, DDD, or even "hey you" as long as you make it clear that I'm the "hey you" you're talking about. Now back to the rest of you helping me lynch Mylynes.

[Mylynes]

Can I make a request. USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON! I'm having a very difficult time deciphering these massive posts. It makes it even harder when everything is tagged incorrectly. The PREVIEW BUTTON which is RIGHT NEXT TO THE SUBMIT BUTTON is your friend, use it.

Sorry and I will take your advice it sounds like a good idea to always use preview. I will try my best not to make that mistake again. Thank you for the advice.

[Mylynes]

@Mod
"Since the deadline is close to new year, I MIGHT consider moving it IF we get close to it before lynch."
Well it's almost christmas and no lynch yet. I doubt people will be playing on the 25 (me included).

Will there be an extension if we get to the first with no lynch or should we focus hard on who gets lynched before then?

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, I personally think you are trying to take advantage of the inexperience of the newer players by claiming doctor. What I mean by this is you are using your claim of a power role to cause them to second and third guess themselves and fear lynching you. Personally, I think this WIFOM is also to try to prey on the more inexperienced players by confusing them. As DDD said, you haven't attempted to lead the town since you started your gambit, in fact allowing discussion to stagnate when we aren't focused on your gambit. If you are going to keep going with this gambit, why don't you attempt to lead the town in a different direction that isn't OMGUS-ish, with evidence from this game. Focus on this game, not on things you saw in other games that worked in that game, those are not this game.

Apparently you have missed my recent posts as I have move past the wifom arguments and I'm no longer claiming that I am possibly VT. I will be trying my best to focus on the lynch and scumhunting and the extension we got may be useful as well if we make it to the first and have not lynched yet.

So yea happy holidays everyone. I wont be on much today or tomorrow.

[Mylynes]

Unvote

I'll be back later tonight.

Why the unvote? I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Would like for everyone to be at least somewhat active so we can scumhunt before new years. Anyone plan on not being here much?

[Mylynes]

If anything I doubt the scum are hiding in the background especially since you seem to enjoy getting an "easy misslynch" when you play as scum. How is there a distinct advantage to the town in lynching the doc OR a VT? We should be focused on lynching scum.

A) How is this an “easy” “mislynch”? I mean I unvoted when you got to L-1 when it would’ve been easy for a dumb townie or a hypothetical-scum partner to toss down an early hammer, which would’ve been easy. If your lynch was “easy” then you’d be dead by now so don’t give me that nonsense that I was fishing for an easy lynch.

Maybe because you were the only one really pushing for my death at the time and as confirmed townie it would have looked bad for you. At the time with you backing off of L-1 you could have been the hammer for the quicklynch yourself or pushed to get me lynched without having your vote on me if someone had put me back at L-1. Most of my votes then were random though.

B) There are plenty of time when there’s a benefit to lynching a townie, it’s called a policy lynch. You usually do it to someone who will ruin the game in one way or another or make it impossible for your side to win. Thus by removing this person the game is then fun or winnable or both. You couple the benefits of a policy lynch along with the possibility that you’re scum and your death looked mighty attractive to me.

I apologize for annoying you.

But as to why I unvoted? Because frankly this isn’t fun for me for anymore, I could literally pick apart your entire last post like I did the above and I don’t feel like it would get me anywhere. No one would vote you because of it and you would just ignore it because it feels to me like half of your responses just ignore what I wrote anyways. So if you’re scum congrats because you broke the last vestige of the town’s actual resistance against you.

If you think someone is scum, then push them. Do not let up. Ever. If you worry about your image then you won't be able to effectively attack. And if you're wrong, then shrug it off. Don't ever lose confidence, because it is when you do that that the scum can start sowing the seeds of doubt in your mind. Never give up on your convictions.

@Mylynes - I know, as a newbie, you want to experiment and learn but I don't think that you are credible enough to do something which requires leading the town. You were merely self-centered and as far as I can remember, you suspect everyone that does not agree with your plan. And make your own play style, don't copy other's.

Not agreeing with my plan is not enough for me to vote or even fos someone. To some level I suspect everyone but some people stand out a lot more.

I simply take the situation and look at it. Analyze risks and benefits if a townie was doing it, then flip it over and analyze it as if it were a scum's action. One of those will have a higher reward for a lower risk. That turns an automatic scumtell that ends up being discarded as useless into a nice bit of information that could figure strongly into a case on either side.

Now, in regards with the issue of danakillsu, the one I replaced, I can't give you an answer to why he acted that way, I can only tell you "what I think" about why he acted that way if you want. Anyway, feel free to ask questions.

In that case I am interested to hear what you think about why he acted that way.

[Mylynes]

I guess he was handling way too many games to focus that his focus was divided too little in each of the games he's in. I don't really have any idea what his play style is but I tried to view his posts in the other games and I found all of his posts

virtually no content

other than small talks with players and finger pointing. I have come to the conclusion that it's the nature of his play style.

I have already pointed out that he was playing too many games but he still came off as scummy based on what he did do while he was here. I haven't looked into his playstyle elsewhere yet but I will get started on that later tonight. I also look forward to getting a better read on you since danakillsu wasn't on a lot.

I also hope that animorpherv1 will not have to lurk due to his computer issues.

[Mylynes]

If you want to get a better read on me, go to www.board.ikariam.com

Scroll down and click the "Mafia Game". Search the Archives for that section. My name there is jasper_

The link doesn't work.

[Mylynes]

Maybe because you were the only one really pushing for my death at the time and as confirmed townie it would have looked bad for you.

Woah, hold it. You're far from confirmed. The fact you have three votes on you is proof of that. A doctor is still a good scumclaim. There's a 50% chance that we even have a doctor, and drawing the doctor out should he exist isn't a terrible consolation prize.

I meant in the case of my death I would be confirmed town.

What he said. Until you are either

dead

or endgame, you are far from confirmed.

I was talking about my possible death earlier.

No, the hammer would've looked bad; the L-1 vote would have not looked great. I would've been fine as scum because I would have conveniently disappeared and then come back indignant that people took the case I was pushing solely for informational purposes seriously and lynched someone on page three. There’s no chance I get in serious trouble because I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing, looking for scumtells and pushing those arguments.

My death at that time would have looked bad for you. The hammer would have looked worse. If I recall correctly you did try to set yourself up as my hammer before realizing I didn't have enough votes.

But this is all part of my larger point, you claim to have this great meta read of me that includes me as scum usually trying for and getting easy lynches. But in this game when I toss away a chance at the easiest possible lynch it’s still an indictment of me somehow. You’re going to do whatever it is you want to do regardless of reality; so there’s absolutely no point in talking with you.

It's not a great read on you this game for 3 main reasons. Your play doesn't have to match your play from previous games and just because you were scum in another game does not mean you are scum here. Also you have said before this game hasn't been normal thanks to my gameplay so far.

So even though I am observing your playing history I will still attempt to make a case for you as scum and also as town based on what has happened in THIS game.

Also as far as getting an easy mislynch goes I believe those were your words before I ever used them. Looking at your history as scum you have a history of playing on the mistakes of newer players, lurking when you have a good opportunity, and securing misslynches.

[Mylynes]

For now I would like to put animorpherv1 at L-2 and will look forward to his response when he returns.

I will continue working on a case both for and against DDD as I'm not entirely convinced he is scum yet.

Unvote
Vote: animorpherv1

Also working on cases for everyone else. Not only do I need to scumhunt but I also need to figure out who I will protect.

@Everyone - Who do you believe to be the least scummy player here?

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(3) animorpherv1 - J.R, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Mylynes
(2) Mylynes - Arthur Dent, jmj3000
(1) Arthur Dent – Linehouse

Not voting:

animorpherv1, Fongoid, Xzy

:arrow: Day 1 - Deadline (Link to countdown): January 8 2010

[Mylynes]

@Everyone - Who do you believe to be the least scummy player here?

Should I just humor you? I can whip out a good list of most scummy players but the ones at the bottom aren't there for great reasons. Many people I don't have a decent read on, and those are the people who need to post more.


@Fongoid

Please present your case asap so we can get it out of the way

Just an idea but the people who come off as least scummy are either not scum or they are scum doing a good job of blending in. Either way the question is meant to promote conversation and possibly get reads on people based on the responses. By using proc of elimination picking out people you believe to be town could result in less people for the scum to hide in. Or would this be a bad idea?

The bottom of my scum list also consists of people I don't have a good read on yet. However I do have 2 possible protection targets at the moment.

I have 2 lists. One is to sort people from scummiest to least scummy while the other is meant to sort people from most likely to be town to least likely to be town.

[Mylynes]

DDD never gave a reason in his post why he's voting for me (he's scum and needs to die is something a scum would say, imo).

vote:DDD

. The only reason I haven't been posting here is that I forgot and I've been lazy.

If you look at DDD in this game he did the exact same thing to me. However even though he is high on my scum list he is also high on my town list. I can see him as being an overly aggressive townie and I have definately learned from his play so far.

After doing some reading around I now realize the importance of pressure. Thus why I put you at L-2.

Mylynes: Why do you keep doing scummy things? Asking people to post their "most townie" list just screams scum trying to get a read on whom everyone trusts the most.

I don't recall asking people to post their "most townie" list. Just one person you do not think is scum. It's also just an idea so i'm not sure if it could be anti-town or not. I figured that the scum already know who the townies are so if why not help level the playing field some and at the same time. I was also wanting to advance my own lists and possibly look for who I should protect. Perhaps I should drop the question though.

[Mylynes]

@Mylynes, This just recently came to my mind: Isn't it unfair that you compare people's previous game to this game to make judgment about them while we don't have any previous games of yours, since you are just a newbie, to compare to this game? And what about your fellow "beginner" folks here? (if there's any)

Unfair? Not really considering what happens in THIS game is more important that what has happened in previous games. If anything a new player using a meta read on a much more experienced player would only serve to balance things a little more by possibly giving the newer player more to go on.

Everyone has a lesser chance of being scum than town do that argument doesn't fly. You are right about that last sentence at least, even Mylynes who thinks I'm the worst IC EVAR would agree to that.

Agreed. Although it seems like you have spent much more time trying to get me lynched than trying to help the town at least I have learned a little bit from you so +1 good IC point. So I wouldn't go as far to say you are the worst IC EVAR as at the moment you are the only IC I have played with.

[Mylynes]

The only reason I haven't been posting here is that I forgot and I've been lazy.

What about the computer issues you mentioned?

[Mylynes]

@Xzy, So who's at the top of your scum list right now?

Depends whose at the bottom of yours.

Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?

[Mylynes]

Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?

He is asking more information from me when he hasn't answered your question either. J.R and his predecessor have posted a minuscule amount, so I want more out of him.

You didn't answer my question.

Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?

[Mylynes]

Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?

Post 268.

I read your post and even quoted it but it doesn't answer my question. You avoided the question and basically said you didn't want to answer his question until he answered mine.

You could have told him that you wanted him to answer his question first but what you said was:

@Xzy, So who's at the top of your scum list right now?

Depends whose at the bottom of yours.

The way you worded your response to his question it can be taken more than one way which is why I am asking you about it. It looks like you are saying the person at the top of your scum list depends on who is at the bottom of his which doesn't make sense to me.

[Mylynes]

I'm sorry I haven't been around much :/ Christmas season much, much busier than I anticipated.

From the reading I did before I left, I

FoS: Xzy

, but I should be home later on Tuesday, and I'll try and present an actual case against him. (On my netbook with crummy internet at my gf's parent's place )

Since it has been over 72 hours since his last post:

Prod Fongoid

Done

It's now friday and the deadline is getting closer. Still plan on presenting a case against Xzy? If so it would be better to do it sooner rather than later.

[Mylynes]

The way you worded your response to his question it can be taken more than one way which is why I am asking you about it. It looks like you are saying the person at the top of your scum list depends on who is at the bottom of his which doesn't make sense to me.

I just wanted responses out of J.R first because Dana left us with very little, and I can't quite call Dana that well because his excuse could be legitimate (eventually flaked, unless he would go that far for a teammate..) J.R went on about "unfairness" yet expects more out of me than him. I find that odd. Fact remains that all of J.R's points against me can be applied against him.

J.R also singled me out when you noticed the same thing with Animo's "computer issues". I call selective scumhunting or just terrible play.

So your anwer would to my question would be that the top of your scum list doesn't depend on the bottom of his? You still haven't answered my question..

[Mylynes]

Unvote

Vote: Xzy

Most scummy, you.

Least scummy, jmj.

I don't know how to explain my question any more clearly than I already have and yet you still refuse to answer it.

After reading everything you have done so far again I believe you to be scum. I will post my case against you soon.

[Mylynes]

There aren't any unresolved questions. If you argue that as a point you're going to look exceedingly thick.

My question is still: Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?

Where have you answered THIS question? All you did was sidestep my question and said that you wanted JR to answer his question first.

[Mylynes]

@Fongoid - Welcome back and you did a pretty good job of summing up what I have noticed after re-reading his play several times.

The only thing I really can add to that right now is that both me and danakillsu were easy targets to attack at the time as we both had other people putting pressure on us BEFORE Xzy came into the picture. This makes me think he is scum trying to blend in by going along with other peoples opinions and being focused only on 2 targets.

Big big emphasis on him not scumhunting. The only vote he has placed was on danakillsu and only after lurking turned him into an easy target.

He then goes on to say this which supports the fact he has only gone after easy targets:

At the time, Mylynes seemed like a pretty good target.

@Xzy - Please stop running circles around the question. This is the last time I'm going to ask for a response as there is no way for me to make this more clear to you and I don't want to keep focus on this one question all day.

I asked: "Why would the top of your scum list depend on who is at the bottom of JRs list?"
Here are possible answers:
1. The top of my scum list does not depend on who is at the bottom of JRs scum list.
2. The top of my scum list depends on who is at the bottom of JRs list for _____ reason.


Also you first say:

Should I just humor you? I can whip out a good list of most scummy players but the ones at the bottom aren't there for great reasons. Many people I don't have a decent read on, and those are the people who need to post more.

Then you go on to say:

Most scummy, you.
Least scummy, jmj.

1. Is jmj the least scummy player to you or is he on the bottom of your list and not there for great reasons?
2. Why do you believe jmj to be the least scummy player here?


@Everyone - About to have to leave but I'll be back tomorrow. Will try to finish analyzing Xzys posts and comment on my findings as soon as I wake up tomorrow.

[Mylynes]

I never really pushed for a Mylynes lynch until recently.

Liar..

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer.

Oddly enough I was going to in my previous post. To think Mylynes would be lynched by now seems off.

If people don't have any qualms with me bumping Mylynes up to L-1 then I will make that vote. I'm not denying my second proposed option. I just don't have a viable target on my radar that stands up to Mylynes.

@DDD - Why did you specifically ask for Xzy to place the L-1 vote?

- I applied much of the pressure on Mylynes the whole game. He has been at L-2 most of the game. I have used FoS' on him at least twice.

No you used FoS on me ONE time.

You are scum and need to die.

[Mylynes]

Care to answer my questions Xzy?

[Mylynes]

I'm thinking that Xzy and animo are scum buddies though I'm not quite confident that animo is scum. There may be just some issue with his activity.

I'm not very confident about animorpherv1 being scum either.

[Mylynes]

Hey y'all!

After reading through the thread, I have to agree with recent posts and

Vote: Xzy

If I have to Unvote Arthur Dent's vote for Mylynes:

Unvote
Vote: Xzy

Unvote

My reason for unvoting is to put Xzy back at L-2.

If you are voting for Xzy I'd like to hear your opinions on why. I still think he is scum but I'm not about to let you get him lynched because of you merely saying that you agree with out posts.

[Mylynes]

The top of my scum list does not directly depend on who is at the bottom of JRs scum list.

Thank you.

1. Not the greatest reasons. It's not so much that I believe him to be so undeniably town so much as I believe everyone else is a lot more scummier.
2. Addendum to the above, everyone else has something I don't like. Your early gambit and adamant WIFOMs. DDD's aggression. Arthur's inactivity. I didn't like Animo's excuse (for his excuse), and even moreso his posts are getting consistently worse. J.R's arguments are suspiciously weak. Between Fongoid and Jmj, Jmj has been the most consistent with good posts.

No you used FoS on me ONE time.

You are scum and need to die.

Are those two comments related? Obviously I disagree with the end conclusion. I believed I've FoS'd you twice, but even if I didn't that doesn't make me a liar, or scum. I didn't check back, I went by memory. For me to lie there would need to be some motive, in the event these comments are related I'll assume this is the thought process:

"Xzy said he FoS'd me twice. He only did so once. He is saying he did so an extra time to seem more innocent. He is a liar and as a liar is he is scum."

Except it's easily checkable, scum would opt for something more ambiguous to avoid this. That's stepping into WIFOM grounds, but simple risk vs reward should be enough to conclude "Xzy messed up. Whether it was intentional is too difficult to determine."

No the two comments you quoted are not related. I realize it was probably a mistake you made but I still thought it should be corrected because it adds to my main point which is that you have not been actively scumhunting.

[Mylynes]

I voted for Mylynes because an innocent Townie would never Unvote. He's trying to cause chaos and it's working! jmj3000 fell into his trap by FoSing me. It's all going as Mylynes planned... and I'm not about to let it happen!

I unvoted because you allowed for a possibly quickhammer and did not give any reason for doing so other than agreeing with our posts. Since you have changed your vote I'll put mine back.

Vote: Xzy
FOS: Mr. Pixie

[Mylynes]

At least you agree with my point! :b

By your own logic you would be scum.

I voted for Mylynes because an innocent Townie would never Unvote. He's trying to cause chaos and it's working! jmj3000 fell into his trap by FoSing me. It's all going as Mylynes planned... and I'm not about to let it happen!

Unvote
Vote: Mylynes

If an "innocent townie" would never unvote then why did you just unvote right before saying that? I unvoted because you put Xzy at L-1.

I never had a very good read on arthur dent but you are acting scummy.

[Mylynes]

I thought you were acting "scummy" because all throughout the threads (and all the threads I've read over) no one had ever done that. So I thought it was suspicious. But back then I honestly had no idea what I was doing lol as I'm new to this. Looking back, you are probably not scummy, and I apologize for accusing you.

DDD unvoted to prevent my possible quickhammer when I was at L-1 earlier this game.

I will now

Unvote

and leave it at that because recently my "votes" have been getting me into some trouble. Therefore, I'll stay neutral for now before I make anyone else FoS/HoS/Vote me.

[sarcasm] Ok I am no longer suspicious of you. [/sarcasm]

[Mylynes]

The deadline is getting very close so we should focus hard and decide who gets lynched before the deadline.

[Mylynes]

Unvote
Vote: Pixie

Xzy still seems scummy to me but I am interesting in his possible roleclaim and right now Pixie is looking the scummiest to me so I think Pixie should die unless someone does something else that makes them look scummier.

[Mylynes]

Unvote
Vote: Pixie

Xzy still seems scummy to me but I am interesting in his possible roleclaim and right now Pixie is looking the scummiest to me so I think Pixie should die unless someone does something else that makes them look scummier.

Unvote
Vote: Pixie

Sorry forgot to bold vote.

[Mylynes]

Just an FYI I consider a minority lynch a completely unacceptable result for the day.

The deadline is getting very close so what would you suggest we do?

I would rather lynch either pixie or Xzy unless someone presents a stronger case against someone else in time. To me a no-lynch would be unacceptable.

[Mylynes]

@Xzy - I find it interesting how you have handled your voting in this game. You never voted for me but under pressure of being lynched close to the deadline your vote on fongoid seems defensive and OMGUS. Also to me it doesn't look like fongoid is saying he wants to policy lynch you. Instead he is saying he would allow policy votes just to help get someone who he believes to be scum lynched.

I don't mind switching my vote back to you and it is very possible that you could be the person who gets D1 lynched. If you have a claim to make it may be a good idea to claim now while you still have a chance.

@Pixie - You could also end up being the person who dies today. Any last words before you die?

[Mylynes]

Johoohno: Can you please do a global prod as we have less than a day left?

Doh! I thought we had 14 hours left...not 38 (at the time of the current post)

Not quite as dire as I had thought, but still a good idea to get the lynch in before deadline.

Deadline - Link to countdown

[Mylynes]

Vote: Xzy

Because it's either me or him.

Is that your only reason for voting for him?

[Mylynes]

I would really like for mr pixie to answer my question before the deadline.

[Mylynes]

Well I really need to get some sleep so I'll leave it to Xzy or fongoid to make sure the day doesn't end in a no-lynch. It looks like Mr Pixie is about to die because he hasn't been around to defend himself.

[Mylynes]

Question here now is why is Mylynes still alive, by not killing him they certainly made him more suspicious. But in doing so, they risked a 1/8 chance of failing. It's still possible they fell victim to his early WIFOM (unlikely) or we're dealing with the roleblocker setup.

Why do you think you're still alive Mylynes?

I did not really expect to live through N1 because of my doctor claim but since I am still alive I would assume they chose to take out DDD because he could have been a great asset to the town and to avoid having their kill possibly be blocked by attacking me.

I need some time to go over and re-read the game with DDD and Pixie both confirmed as town. I'll give my thoughts on who I think is scum when I finish.

I stilll think that Pixie is just a bad townie, so Xzy.

If you thought that Pixie was a bad townie and then thought that Xzy was scum then why did you disappear near the deadline without leaving your vote?

[Mylynes]

Vote: Xzy
FOS: Ani

[Mylynes]

Vote: Xzy
FOS: Ani

Any reasonings behind it?

I'm voting Xzy because if it were not for his possible claim he would probably be dead as I would not have changed my vote to pixie. Pixie seemed like the second scummiest player next to Xzy. Now that pixie has been confirmed town Xzy has been bumped to the top of my scum list.


I FOSed Ani because he seems the most suspicious next to Xzy.

First he says:

I'd like to say either DDD or Xzy. I'm willing to vote for Xzy whenever.

Then closer to the deadline he says:

I stilll think that Pixie is just a bad townie, so Xzy.

Despite these comments he keeps his vote on DDD who ends up getting nightkilled.

His only reason so far for not voting Xzy:

That was me being an idiot.

[Mylynes]

Wow where did everyone go? It's been almost 2 days since the last post and some people probably need to be prodded.

[Mylynes]

If not then probably soon.

[Mylynes]

It's less that I suspect I'm marked for death, and more a "just in case" scenario.

I ended up protecting you because of my town read on you being better than everyone elses so far and the post above.

I considered posting 2 or 3 possible protection targets before the night to make the scum think hard about who to NK but people seemed to not like that idea and I didn't want to confuse people so close to the deadline. I would have listed DDD as a possible protection target based on my reasoning earlier in the game but I still would have chosen you as my protection target.

[Mylynes]

I find it highly suspicious that Mylynes is still living after his day one cop claim,

First off I never claimed cop so I'll just assume you meant to say doctor. I did expect my chances of death tonight would be high but apparently they would rather get me lynched. I'm not sure why they decided not to NK me but it looks like they wanted to eliminate the most experienced townie and spread suspicion.

I don't think your WIFOM confused the scum Mylynes, I think you are a scum using WIFOM to confuse town and make them all unsure of voting you.

My original plan as explained in my last post was to declare possible protection targets before the lynch. By declaring 2 or 3 possible protection targets I believed that it could help to throw off scum by making them unsure if their kill will be blocked but we ended up moving past that and working on deciding who to lynch. So yea it's kind of hard to confuse scum with a plan that was decided not to be used.

The only WIFOM that is left I have explained back in post Post 216. I am the doctor though and I have moved past my possible VT claim.


@Everyone if we have a cop and the cop was able to find scum last night it might be a good idea to claim because we would kill scum and I could force the remaining scum to kill me before being able to kill a claimed cop. If the cop hasn't found scum yet then claiming would be a bad idea.

[Mylynes]

I don't mind being the D2 lynch if everyone thinks I am scum as long as people use my bandwagon to scumhunt although I would have rather been NKed. Although lynching me would result in our second misslynch and would put us at 2/4 or 2/3 after a NK. So I'm not sure if town could win after that or not.

So basically we need to lynch correctly today. This is why it would be a good idea for scum to leave me alive for D2 so they can get me lynched just because I'm still alive. If you have any better arguments then, "Your still alive so you must be scum" which to me sounds like scum trying to get me lynched. I would love to hear them though. More conversation is a good thing.

FOS: Xzy

[Mylynes]

Yeah, scum. Basically my plan in a nutshell except you not only set it up, but you also walked right into it.

Also what do you mean by this?

[Mylynes]

From my day one re-read, I didn't get much. We have all acted scummy to some degree, and I think the scum killed DDD to try and put even more suspicion onto Mylynes. I also noticed that Xzy was fine with helping DDD try to lynch Mylynes, but never put a formal vote on him. I find it highly suspicious that Mylynes is still living after his day one cop claim, and Ani could have killed DDD to make himself look less suspicious due to the fact that the target of most of DDD's suspicions was Mylynes. Usually, I would be saying lynch Mylynes since he survived the night after his doctor claim, and this is no exception.

Vote: Mylynes

. I don't think your WIFOM confused the scum Mylynes, I think you are a scum using WIFOM to confuse town and make them all unsure of voting you.

If my plans had not been shot down earlier then not only would the scum not know who I am going to protect but they also would have risked me being vt by attacking me.

[Mylynes]

Wait sorry I just woke up.. meant to quote this post:

@Mylynes: I meant to say doc, and th.ought I had, but I was half-asleep and apparently I did not. Either way, you are still alive after a PR claim, which has made me extremely suspicious. Announcing possible protection targets wouldn't have even slowed scum down, because they would have targeted you and not worried about the kill being blocked since you can't protect yourself.

If my plans had not been shot down earlier then not only would the scum not know who I am going to protect but they also would have risked me being vt by attacking me.

[Mylynes]

I am also suspicious of animorph and JR.

[Mylynes]

We might be able to get somewhere if everyone would participate.

[Mylynes]

Vote: Linehouse

You have seemed scummy to me for a while.

I have to leave now but I'll be back later tonight.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, if I've seemed scummy to you for awhile, why is this the first time we've heard of it? I'm also curious to hear your reasoning.

Sorry I have no idea why I put your name there but I meant to vote for jmj3000

Vote: jmj3000

You have seemed scummy to me for a while.

Because of your arguments against me so far in this game something tells me that you know I am town and you want me dead anyways. The only way you could know for sure that I am town is if you are mafia. Something about your arguments against me just haven't seemed right.

For example:
In post 405 you said, "We have all acted scummy to some degree, and I think the scum killed DDD to try and put even more suspicion onto Mylynes."

Yet in post 427 you said, "Him surviving through the night just screams suspicious at me, though I do realize there is a slim chance scum didn't kill him to frame him."

So you think scum killed ddd to frame me but there's only a slim chance that scum didn't kill me to frame me?

[Mylynes]

On a side note: I'm having a hell of a time getting this site to load and post. Is there a known problem that I'm missing?

I've been having problems too.

I wanted to come post in this game last night after killing myself in my other game but It's like the site went down or something or for whatever reason I was unable to access the site so I just went to sleep and now it's working again.

Also, on a side note now that I'm done with my other game I should have more time for this game. Since it seems like this game is going to require a lot of re-reading I don't plan on starting another game until I'm done in this one.

[Mylynes]

So you think scum killed ddd to frame me but there's only a slim chance that scum didn't kill me to frame me?

Yes. You are in no means clear, so I don't know you are anything. The fact that you are alive after coming right out and saying you are doctor just screams that you are scum. The killing of DDD, who was suspicious of you for most of day 1, seems like a noobish mitake. Finally, the OMGUS vote you just threw on me, coupled with a weak argument against me, have sealed it for me. In the words of Linehouse:

Mylynes, if I've seemed scummy to you for awhile, why is this the first time we've heard of it?

First of all, If you think that scum killed DDD to frame me then why do you only think there is a slim chance that scum didn't kill me to frame me? Killing DDD means not killing me.

Also, I don't think the response from Linehouse applies in this situation as I have noted my suspicion of you in the past.

[Mylynes]

Why am I the scumiest to you Mylynes?

You are not the only person who I suspect could be scum and I also have an ok town read on you but you are leaning more scum than town. I also think you have mostly managed to avoid suspicion and pressure until now.

The reason I say there is a slim chance

they

left you alive to frame you is because

they

might not have thought about it fully.

They

killed the one who was most suspicious of you all of day one until the end when no one was listening to him, which had the side effect of leaving you alive.

If you think that "they" framed me by killing DDD and me being alive is a side effect of them framing me then you think "they" are framing me so why is there only a "slim" chance that "they" are framing me by leaving me alive since as you said it is a side effect of them killing DDD. So now your explanation is that "they" are framing me by killing DDD which also means not killing me but there is only a "slim" chance "they" thought of this.

What reason do you have to assume I am not the doctor other than my being alive? That reason seems strange since you also think I was framed which would explain why I am alive. Could your switch from thinking ddd was killed to frame me over to later thinking there is only a "slim" chance that scum didn't kill me to frame me possibly be an attempt to support your point of I'm alive so I must be scum? Lets review:

That gamble is the whole reason I am leaning more towards Mylynes as scum. If he was doctor, the scum would have killed him during the night to make the rest of

their

kills as easy as possible. Him surviving through the night just screams suspicious at me, though I do realize there is a slim chance scum didn't kill him to frame him.

To me it looks like you are changing your story because otherwise you thinking that I was framed would contradict your point that I shouldn't be alive.

What in my arguments has made you think that I know you are town?

Well part of it has to do with how you keep talking to me and referring to scum as "they". If you are referring to me as "you" then who are "they"? Since "they" implies more than one person this either means you think there is more than two living mafia members or you are speaking from the perspective that I am town. If you think I am scum then who are "they"? Also since you think I am scum and you think "they" framed me then wouldn't you think that I framed myself? Seems to me like lately you would rather think there was only a slim chance I didn't kill myself to frame myself.

Obviously a mafia member wouldn't want to admit that he knows for sure someone is town but only the mafia know for sure who is town. I think the mafia in this case have tried to frame me and have wanted to get me lynched and I think jmj3000 is one of them. He comes off as wanting me dead without really believing that I am scum.

I think you used WIFOM on day one to confuse town and make people afraid to lynch you due to the fact that we arent 100% what you are. I think you are scum who is playing a very good game so far.

No town member is 100% sure of anyone elses alignment at the moment and everything we do in this game is WIFOM to some extent. If I had wanted to cause confusion then why would I attempt to get rid of some confusion by abandoning my possible VT claim when it seemed like certain people didn't like my ideas. You were against pretty much all of my D1 plans and despite me abandoning my plans you still seem to want me dead without much reason. Unless you are scum in which case you have plenty of reason to want me dead.

Like I have said before scum would be more against my plan than town and at first I thought DDD was that person but my later read of DDD was leaning town which is why I turned to scumhunting elsewhere. Now I realize that the person who fits the profile is you jmj3000. I also find it suspicious that you have mostly managed to avoid suspicion and pressure until now.

[Mylynes]

Because of your arguments against me so far in this game something tells me that you know I am town and you want me dead anyways. The only way you could know for sure that I am town is if you are mafia. Something about your arguments against me just haven't seemed right.

You have already claimed that you are the doc. So why would you question someone who came out certain that you are town? This post kinda contradicts your claim

How exactly does it contradict my claim? If anything the post you quoted answers your question but I'll try to explain more clearly. The mafia know 100% for sure who is town and who isn't while the town do not have access to this information. So if a person knows for sure whether someone is town or not then they would have to be scum.

Mafia also would try to hide the fact that they know more than us because it's an obvious scumtell. Jmj3000 has been completely against viewing my early actions from a town perspective and has been trying to kill me since early D1.

Day 1, you claimed that you are the doc then now you are questioning someone who is kind of certain that you are town?

Yes I claimed doc what is your point? Also not someone who is "kind of certain" but someone who I think is scum and would therefor KNOW that I am town. I think jmj3000 is scum. He fits the description of someone who knows I am town but wants to kill me anyways.

[Mylynes]

5. Mylynes is a townie who lied about being the doctor for some strange reason (I really doubt this scenario).

Before you really doubt this scenario you should look at open 191 towards the end. I just hammered myself to avoid a mime lynch and I now have a history of false claiming as VT. Anyways this scenario is not impossible.

[Mylynes]

@Mylynes. What I was trying to say was you have already made us think that you are town so why question if you think someone came out like he is certain that you are town.

Did you miss the part where he's trying to kill me and not openly admitting that I am town? Do you also not understand why mafia would know that you are town and try to kill you anyways while everyone else should be unsure about your alignment?

Also I don't think he is scum because of him knowing I am town but rather I think he is scum and his arguments fit the profile of someone who knows I am town.


On a side note though does anyone know of an easy way to obtain iso reads to analyze? So far I've been just reading the thread from the beginning while skimming over stuff I am not focusing on or looking at a persons posting history and skipping stuff from other games. At first I was transplanting everyone's posts to notepad but that only succeeded in using a lot of my time and making people's posts harder to read. Something tells me there has to be an easier way. >,>

[Mylynes]

Mylynes: Bottom of the page (a little under the quick reply box), where it says "Display posts from previous: All Posts by All users" etc. tabs, click on the "All users" tab. It should bring up a list of every person who has posted in this thread.

Ah ok tyvm. This should make things a lot easier for me.

[Mylynes]

The activity here has been slowing down a bit. So let's make the discussion more active. Now, my question is:

Who do you guys think is the MOST suspicious right now?

jmj3000 is the most suspicious person to me at the moment.

[Mylynes]

I apologize for not being online before the deadline. My internet went down for a while but I'm back online now. I meant to post a bigger case against jmj3000 but I couldn't get online.

Something I should bring up is that I announced I would vote for myself D3 and I think this is possibly part of the reason I have avoided being NKed so far despite my doctor claim.

Vote: Mylynes

This means it will only take 2 people to lynch me and something tells me scum really want me lynched since they haven't NKed me yet.

Animorpherv1's death improved my town reads on Linehouse and Xzy. Since I already have a town read on fongoid that leaves only jmj3000 as the last scum. So if I am not dead I will be switching my vote to jmj3000 tomorrow and posting the rest of my case against him then. I will post what I found from my iso reads now but would like more time to read the entire game with everyone's posts to see if there may have been some hidden interaction between them that wouldn't show up in an iso read. (such as attacking the same person at the same time)

I find it interesting that in my iso read on jmj3000 he mentions animorph at all but what I find even more interesting is when he does briefly mention animorph.

I'll just quote the entire posts in order and bold/underline the interesting parts:

From my day one re-read, I didn't get much. We have all acted scummy to some degree, and I think the scum killed DDD to try and put even more suspicion onto Mylynes. I also noticed that Xzy was fine with helping DDD try to lynch Mylynes, but never put a formal vote on him. I find it highly suspicious that Mylynes is still living after his day one cop claim,

and Ani could have killed DDD to make himself look less suspicious due to the fact that the target of most of DDD's suspicions was Mylynes.

Usually, I would be saying lynch Mylynes since he survived the night after his doctor claim, and this is no exception.

Vote: Mylynes

. I don't think your WIFOM confused the scum Mylynes, I think you are a scum using WIFOM to confuse town and make them all unsure of voting you.

That gamble is the whole reason I am leaning more towards Mylynes as scum. If he was doctor, the scum would have killed him during the night to make the rest of their kills as easy as possible. Him surviving through the night just screams suspicious at me, though I do realize there is a slim chance scum didn't kill him to frame him. I am also suspicious of Xzy due to him softclaiming.

As for ani and linehouse, I have no idea on them, and same to you fongoid.

Fongoid, since we are dangerously close to deadline, why are you voting me?

Even if me and ani are tied for votes at deadline, ani will be lynched due to him reaching the most votes first.

Even after reading you in iso, I don't think you are scum. I still feel strongly that mylynes is scum, and I am doing quick iso reading on everyone and see who else gives me a scum read.

So first you thought animorph killed DDD, then you had no idea what his alignment was, then the last post looks like maybe you didn't want him to be lynched.

Then looking at the iso read on animorph I hit ctrl + f and searched for jmj. This search only gave one result in all of ani's posts:

I'm with jmj on this one. Holding information for no reason (we haven't had a Night Phase yet, folks!) to me, makes it seem like your scum trying to fake information. My vote now has some substance to it.

Right now there are 2 scum out there and based on my current suspicions it is likely that both of them have already voted for me. Despite my suspicions at the time though it could be likely that 1 scum hasn't jumped on the bandwagon just yet but might end up really wanting to kill me soon.

I also find it interesting that in the case jmj3000 flips scum I would have been correct when I thought it likely that both scum were voting for me at that time. People voting me at the time were danakillsu, animorpherv1, and jmj3000. (DDD had unvoted me before I said this) Since danakillsu is dead and animorph flipped scum I have a feeling that jmj3000 will do the same.

[Mylynes]

I find it interesting that in my iso read on jmj3000 he

barely

mentions animorph at all but what I find even more interesting is when he does briefly mention animorph.

Fixed sorry.

Forgot to mention it but the posts I quoted are the

only

interactions between ani and jmj that I found in my iso reads.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, you are taking that third post and twisting it. I was pointing out the fact that voting me and tying me for votes with ani wouldn't have mattered due to the fact that he had got the most votes first. Also, you are right about one of your assumptions: the other scum had not jumped on your bandwagon yet. I had no idea about ani's alignment at the time because he hadn't posted enough for me to get a good read. I was basing my assumption in that post on what everyone else thought of him. Also, ani was agreeing with something I said in relation to you.

Ani would have been killed regardless of fongoid's vote on you so no it wouldn't matter but I find it interesting how you pointed that out to us.

If you previously suspected that Ani could have killed DDD to make himself look less suspicious then why did you later have no idea about ani's alignment because he hadn't posted enough for you to get a good read on him? I also find it suspicious that the

only

time you show up on his iso read is him agreeing with you. Your interaction with each other makes me think you could be scumbuddies.

That in particular. On another point, here your gambit comes back into play. We have a 20% chance of lynching scum, and I still feel that you are scum, but just in case you aren't scum, I am not going to vote you. It would be too easy for a scum to come along and drop the hammer on you. I am going to and iso read everyone now with the development of ani being scum.

If you believe I am scum then vote for me. If you are not scum then let scum hammer me because then I get confirmed town and town will hopefully know who to kill tomorrow. My lynch today plus a NK would mean that tomorrow there will be 2 townies against 1 mafia. So my question to you is if neither one of us is scum then who out of Fongoid, Linehouse, and Xzy do you think is the remaining scum?

Mylynes, this is the point DDD was talking about day 1. You claimed doctor, we are coming close to the wire, its time for you to take charge and lead town. The only other person who could do it more effectively would be the cop if we have one. So Mylynes, my question to you in particular is this: Are you going to live up to your claim and lead town, or are you going to just stick by your gambit and float off without contributing.

What does my doctor claim have to do with leading the town? My being the doctor only means that each night I have a chance to prevent someone from being NKed. If you have any suggestions as to how we can use this to our advantage right now I'd love to hear them since you never really cared for my ideas on the subject.
I really don't see why you are pushing for me to be town leader especially if you think I am scum.

@Everyone - I would like to hear everyone's opinions on who you believe to be the last scum along with why you think they are scum.

[Mylynes]

I would really like to hear from fongoid and xzy before I change my vote. I hope nobody has to get replaced.

[Mylynes]

Sorry, I received the last prod and jotted down some notes. Had some celebrating to do today, so I was a bit busy.


Onward - in response to Mylynes: I believe you're scum. For now I would like to ask both Jmj and Mylynes to say which setup they believe we're playing.

If you believe I am scum then why are you not voting for me?

1. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies
2. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies
3. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies
4. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies

Well from my perspective we are either playing in setup 1 or setup 4. Also this would mean if there is a cop then there is definately a roleblocker and vise-versa. Because of this mafia will also know if there is a cop or not based on their own role.

I also think unless the cop can either confirm 2 people as town or confirm who the last scum is there shouldn't be a cop claim unless he is about to be lynched.

In the case where our cop has found scum wouldn't it be interesting if the cop were to act suspicious to get lynched on purpose and leave the identity of the last scum during twilight? This would result in him being confirmed as the cop after his death and the town being able to win the game the next day.

[Mylynes]

Wow I just noticed thanks to the vote count that I forgot to bold my vote for some reason.. Strange that nobody has noticed this or voted for me.

Since my self vote hasn't been counted this whole time

Vote: Mylynes

.

If I am still alive and if nobody looks more suspicious than jmj I will be changing my vote to jmj tomorrow.

Also, out of curiosity, who have you protected the past 3 nights?

You mean last night? I already mentioned who I protected the first night and there hasn't been a third night yet.

However, first I'm curious as to who Mylynes saved last night, and I'm surprised no one's asked that yet.

Jmj asked.

Night 1 - protected Fongoid (see post 404)
Night 2 - protected Fongoid again (Fongoid seemed less suspicious than Xzy, Linehouse, and jmj before ani died. Anis death also improved my town reads on Xzy and Linehouse.)
Night 3 - pending (Will depend on todays lynch and something tells me that jmj will flip scum)

[Mylynes]

Unvote
Vote: jmj3000

Anis death not only makes you look suspicious because he could have killed you to save himself but it also improved my town read on Xzy and Linehouse. So by using process of elimination with everyone other than you is leaning town I think there is a very good chance that you are scum.

@Everyone
If you do not think that jmj3000 is scum then I would like to know who your suspicions are on right now.

Linehouse, how do you know if the cop (assuming there is one) has only one investigation? Also, even if they have one investigation, thats more information than if they didn't reveal.

If Mylynes survives today, then we have the probable doctor to protect the cop

, which gives the cop another investigation. If the cop doesn't reveal, then we go off the information we have from the past few days, which is giving all of y'all a bad read on me, and lynch me, or follow Mylynes plan and lynch him today, either of which hurts town. I really want to know what has made y'all think that I am scum.

Just wanted to point out again that if we have a cop there is definately a roleblocker and vise-versa. So if there is a roleblocker couldn't he simply block me and kill the claimed cop?

[Mylynes]

If we have a cop, then the roleblocker could block them and prevent the investigation, choose to target them, which since you would be protecting them, causing no kill, and casting suspicion on you, or they could kill you and live the cop alive, because if y'all lynch me, the cop has a 1/3 chance of investigating scum, plus y'all go into day 4 in lylo.

Could the roleblocker simply block me to prevent me from protecting the claimed cop and kill him in the same night? That is what I would like to know. Because that would mean if there is a cop there is a roleblocker and I can't really offer any protection for him.

[Mylynes]

Yes. the roleblocker could block you and kill the claimed cop, but I am finding it hard to believe you are the doctor due to living through 2 nights. Scum would know that we wouldn't lynch the claim doctor, so they would kill you right off. I am highly suspicious of Fongoid and Xzy, since it appears that they are lurking on a pivotal day. As such, I want them to speak and give us their views, and I am going to

FoS: Xzy and Fongoid

.

If we have a cop then it seems likely that the mafia wouldn't be very threatened by a claimed doctor as they would have a roleblocker. Or would you happen to know for sure that we don't have a cop?

Sorry didn't realize my sister was logged in on my computer.

Faulty double post removed

[Mylynes]

If I knew if we did or didn't have a cop, you think I would be asking for their reports? I wanna know what information they have, because we aren't getting much right now due to Fongoid and Xzy lurking. They need to come and weigh in on this topic.

If you know whether we have a cop or not it would be because you are either the roleblocker or the cop. And yes in this case I can very easily see the roleblocker asking for their reports whether there is a cop or not.

I also wish that fongoid and Xzy would be more active but I think it is likely that you are the last scum and it seems like you are looking for someone to draw suspicion away from yourself.

[Mylynes]

If I knew if we did or didn't have a cop, you think I would be asking for their reports? I wanna know what information they have, because we aren't getting much right now due to Fongoid and Xzy lurking. They need to come and weigh in on this topic.

If you know whether we have a cop or not it would be because you are either the roleblocker or the cop. And yes in this case I can very easily see the

roleblocker

asking for their reports whether there is a cop or not.

I also wish that fongoid and Xzy would be more active but I think it is likely that you are the last scum and it seems like you are looking for someone to draw suspicion away from yourself.

Sorry change the bolded roleblocker to scum since having a cop means there is a roleblocker and having no cop means there is a goon.

[Mylynes]

Welcome to the game pwn. We only have a week until the deadline so the faster you can get caught up the better. Would like if you could give us your opinion on all of the remaining players after you get caught up. I look forward to any input you can offer about who the remaining scum is. Personally I think there is a good chance that jmj3000 is the remaining scum so I look forward to hearing what you have to say about him in particular.

[Mylynes]

We need more discussion. Pwnman, you just agreeing with me about a cop claim being a good idea without giving a reason as to why is not helping. Your predecessor didn't do much to help town scumhunt, and you haven't either. That, plus both of y'alls continued silence when we have asked you questions has painted you in a scummy light.

Vote: pwnman

You seem pretty quick to put pwn at L-1.

[Mylynes]

It seems like jmj really doesn't like being pressured and is trying to instead place suspicion on other players. I didn't like your case against pwn for you putting him at L-1 and voting right after Linehouse. I don't really care for your same old case against me which is only, "Mylynes is still alive so he has to be scum."

You do realize that there is only 1 scum left right? So you put pwn at L-1 then I point out the speed at which you did so and then you immediately vote me and go back to your "case" against me. Interesting.

[Mylynes]

Also just wanted to say that since there hasn't been a claim yet I doubt there will be a cop claim today. This probably means that if we have a cop they haven't found any useful information yet.

Also wanted to point out that I will be less likely to believe a cop claim tomorrow than today. So if there is any useful information at all it may be a good idea to claim asap.

[Mylynes]

If jmj were to flip town then my next choice would to lynch would be Xzy/Pwn. I noted some scumminess in some of Xzy's posts for example:

1) It's incredibly scummy to admit you want to live to day X. When I'm scum and caught I desperately grab onto the next day. Albeit not nearly as obvious as you're putting it.

This followed by his vt claim that saved his life makes me think he could be scum although overall I think it is more likely he is town.

I still think that out of the remaining players jmj is the most likely to be scum.

[Mylynes]

Vote: jmj3000
jmj3000 you are my biggest suspect and you should have been lynched last night. I have a really good feeling that you are scum and at least I had a chance to be wrong then and then without you in the lineup and one
person nightkilled we would have a decent chance of winning this game.

Now since you being the biggest suspect just had to make it to the finals I still want your lynch but there is nothing I can do if I am wrong now. So if you are scum. Good try but you need to be lynched today.

If you are town then congrats on making us lose. You have very little chance of convincing me that you are innocent before Linehouse-scum has a chance to kill you for the win when your death last night(even if you are town) would have at least moved the game forward and left either pwn or fongoid in the game. Killing pwn did nothing but remove one of my town reads from the endgame. Thanks.

I'm still suspicious of Linehouse but I'm more suspicious of you and I don't like how all of my town reads vanished thanks to lynching pwn and NKing fongoid.

@Linehouse
If you are scum I just put jmj at L-1 so go ahead and take your win. GG.

Also, just to clear things up I am actually a VT so I did not protect anyone last night. I did originally say with my claim that me being VT was a possibility. At least I was able to keep fongoid alive for a while.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, if you think linehouse is scum, then you vote linehouse to l-1, not the other townie. I have felt you were scum since day 1, and I haven't put any weight into your arguments against me because they seemed very much OMGUS. If you felt that pwnman was a townie, then you should have spoken up louder than you did yesterday. I feel like linehouse is scum, but I feel, and have felt since day one, that you are the scummiest of us all. If you are truly a VT, then you should have said that on day 1 and not let the rest of town believe you were the doctor. I am still not 100% confident of who to put my vote on because you both are scummy to me, so I am going to hold my vote for a little longer.

I don't think linehouse is scum I think you are scum. I also think linehouse less likely to be town than fongoid or pwn but more likely to be town than you.

[Mylynes]

So now Mylynes not only admits he lied this game about being the Doc, but he also lays down a vote without allowing discussion? I don't really like that move. How about we discuss this a bit before making any rash decisions? Although Mylynes, you're looking scummier to me even moreso now.

I did in my original claim say that I could be VT. Also I didn't really vote for jmj3000 because I never bolded my vote. I hoping if you were scum you might immediately vote him but you didn't. This improves my town read on you. Although it is possible that if you are scum you realized that I didn't actually vote jmj so you couldn't hammer I feel a bit better about you being town now and since I am also town that leaves only jmj as the last scum.

[Mylynes]

Mylynes, I have asked this multiple times and I am not sure I got an answer, so I am going to bold it this time so you can see it.

What have I done, not what did Ani do, what have I done to make you think I am scum?

If you have already answered that, would you kindly repost your answer? Linehouse, same question to you.

If you look at my iso you can see my case has already been laid out against you. In particular you should read iso posts 115, 117, 118, 124, 126, 130, 136, and 137 for a better idea of why I think you are scum.

Also, using process of elimination either you or linehouse is scum and I am leaning towards thinking you are scum. Especially after the reactions I got from my fake vote.

[Mylynes]

How did your claim keep fongoid alive? I am curious as to how your claim protected him.

Just some ideas but something makes me think that scum thinking I may be the doctor combined with my strong town read of fongoid and me saying that I was protecting him every night may have kept him from being NKed until last night. Although I think it is also likely that the town read ended up getting fongoid NKed to keep him out of lylo.

If the final players were me, fongoid, and either line or jmj this game would be won right now. The way things are I think our best chance would be to lynch you jmj. If you really aren't scum then you need to be trying to convince me that line is scum because I know my own role. So in the case you are scum your only chance would be to convince linehouse that I am scum.

[Mylynes]

gg

[Mylynes]

My meta is happy lizard kang foo.

[Mylynes]

And if you didn't want me around you should have voted me off when I self voted. It would have been easier for you to find the last scum if you had voted me off before lylo instead of pwn.

For the same reason I would have rather lynched jmj than pwn because if it was either fongoid or pwn with us in the end I would have been more suspicious of linehouse. I didn't think I would be able to get a hammer but at least wanted to try and to get reads on both jmj and linehouse by purposely not bolding my vote.

I didn't think the game would end that fast without further discussion but yea bad move on my part for wanting to be honest. Should have kept to my doctor claim.