Newbie 870 - Game Over

[bv310]

Confirmed.

[bv310]

Oh this is going to be fun. I think tkabn may have just exposed himself. Or he's a rather shrewd player. Either way, I'm looking forward to this.

[bv310]

I've played a game or two on other sites, so finding here was awesome. You guys use some pretty different rules though.

[bv310]

See, I'm used to most of those, but the two games I've played they had night communication between most townies (besides cops) and the game started at nighttime. I like starting at daytime more though. Makes a bit more sense storywise.

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The two I've played have had the townies finding a body in the morning and going from there. I guess either would work from a story standpoint.

[bv310]

1) Somewhat like Zoidberg, Whooping included.
2) Too much to read into from this question
3) A game or two way back when
4) None.
5) One more than you've already walked down
6) It's something different from the norm
7) I respectfully decline to answer, although you got your point across quite well.

Answered them, although I think it goes against the story of the townsfolk. Seems quite scummy if you ask me, despite your seemingly logical answer.

Vote: Netopalis

[bv310]

Okey, for Q.7: I'd suspect the loud player. They're covering up for something. Now the real question is: how many roles were given?

[bv310]

Told you guys we should have waited >_>

Now I feel bad.

Now, since I somehow totally missed the question, I'll answer you now. When I said that your reasoning was logical, I meant it in that it made sense for someone to try to open up the game with questions, instead of the "random lynching" phase. However, I find the questions you asked to be quite suspicious. Asking how a player would play as mafia would either let you look for the signs (if you're a townie) or act counter to those suspicions (as scum). Asking which would you lynch in an end-game scenario also seems like you're planning out how to avoid suspiscion. (spelling?)

1) That's not how the question looks to me. I see subtext: 'Would you rather lynch a lurker or an active player? Is it alright if I lurk?'
2) The decision you gave was between an active player and a lurky player, all other factors controlled. How is it not a question of, 'Will you lynch the leader or the lurker?'

This is how I read into Question 7, not the way you described it.

Now, since my answers back then do seem quite silly, I'll re-answer the ones that were important.

2) If you were playing as mafia, how would you play? What sorts of players would you kill?
I'd go for the Doctor first, then the Cop, then the Vanillas. The Doctor is easily the most powerful role.

4) What do you feel is your greatest asset in a game like this?
I was going to say my privacy and usual ability to keep to myself in these games, but we can all see how that turned out. I'd actually have to say my lack of bias and desire to learn this game.


7) Take the following situation: You are in the final 3 of the game. You know that one other player is mafia, and you know that your vote will determine the end of the game. You have a player who has been largely inactive throughout most of the game and you have a player who has been a driving force behind the game. Both have been early to vote for both mafia and town players. Who do you suspect more and why?
Like I said before, I'd suspect the loudmouth over the quiet one. The loudmouth seems like they'd be following the "hide in plain sight" rule.

Oh, and the "rolefishing" thing was unintentional, the other games I've played had the mod reveal which gameset had been chosen at some point during Day 1. I guess they don't do that here.

[bv310]

(Sorry, quick OOC post: I may not be around a lot for the next few days while I finish up midterms. Only two more to go, but they're hard as shit)

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BV, let's be honest...Do you really think that I need to ask you a question like that to know how to play as scum? My record's actually perfect as a mafia player right now....

I'm still going to say that I've got my eye on you...You seem rather defensive and a bit like you're trying to hide something. Still, this post has mitigated that read somewhat.

See, I didn't check who the ICs and SEs were before I said the first thing. I thought you were one of us newbies. My bad.

Also, TKaBN, I agree with your point on Ace. That page was a pretty strong argument against me based on me trying to play defensively, not against you. You haven't given me a reason to suspect you yet.

Also, Nik, in the games I've played the doctor was told who they blocked, if they succeeded. That made them sort of a combo between Doctor and Cop, but they only had three protects available. I wasn't sure if it works like that here, but I'm guessing based on your post that it doesn't.

I'm gonna go re-read the role rules for here.

If it helps anything, you guys can call me Brock.

[bv310]

With regard to me being hesitant to answer those questions, it just threw me a bit because in all the games I've played, we have started with random voting, not questions on game style/personality.

I felt the same, but it does seem to be really quite useful.

[bv310]

Holy triple post. And yeah, I keep checking here when I get a minute of free time.

And yeah, it kind of threw me to get a set of questions right off the bat.

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In the last one, the mod revealed how many power roles were given out, but not what the roles were. I think there ended up being 4 for that game (doc, cop, and two goons). It helped the game get moving quicker, but I didn't like it. Didn't seem to fit with the RP elements of the story.

He assumed that both the doc and cop are in the game. He would have this information only if he is mafia, and if the mafia has a roleblocker.

Explained above

[bv310]

So basically your argument is that everyone is innocent?



On another note, Can we please make sure this day does not end in a deadlock? A deadlock gives the scum a free whack at the town.[/area]

[bv310]

True, although I've got a few ideas.

[bv310]

Alrighty, my current mindset, player by player:

ace5993 - A bit too talkative for my liking, plus he was quick to defend me when I was under suspicion, which helped increase the suspicion towards me. Add to that his reluctance to answer the questions at first, and he's my #1 suspect so far.

brothernature - Hasn't posted a lot, but I have a few suspicions. He bandwagoned Ace pretty quickly, but I don't know if that was just random voting or if he's trying to cover himself right off the bat. Still a fairly safe Town read.

chauchaudotcom - I don't even know how to respond here, I get a fairly okay Town vibe from her, but that's just my gut talking.

billybailey - Sloppy, but that might just be attributable to newbie status.

kirby_is_kyaan - I inherently trust you because of your Mastodon avatar, but I don't know what to think of you in this game.

Netopalis - I already voted for you and explained why, although my suspicions are a bit stronger elsewhere now.

Nikanor - Defensive, but that might just be due to experience. Fairly strong Town read here.

Tokillablockingnerd - Not a fan of your random lynch idea, and your constant referencing of this being your first game seems to be an attempt to really drive home a newbie read on you. Don't know how to handle you yet.

For the record, I still heavily suspect Neto, but I'm going to

UNVOTE: Netopalis, VOTE: Ace5993

For now. If someone else gives me a good reason to change this, I will.

[bv310]

BV: Ace is guilty because he defended you? That dose not make sense.


You also didn't exactly substantiate your vote against me earlier. You find me scummy because I asked questions, but you also liked my explanation for why I asked those questions? Your position is inconsistent.

I also don't like how you seem to be unable to reach a position on many players. You present some good ideas, but then discard because you "don't know how to handle" or "don't know how to read" them. You need to be firmer. Start taking a stance.

I find Ace suspicious because he was trying to both associate and distance himself from me. It seemed like he was trying to cover himself or cover his partner. If I got lynched and proven Town, he would be able to show his defending me and would seem innocent for it. If I got lynched and flipped scum, then he could show his blaming me and say he was right all along. If, on the other hand, he got lynched, then a scum flip on him would automatically cast a scum read on me because he defended me.

As for the "taking a stand" statement, I'd rather not be definitive, simply because I can't be. There's no way I can be certain about anybody until they're dead and have their role flipped.

[bv310]

I already substantiated my vote against you, before I realized you were an SE. If you weren't experienced, I would have found those questions (specifically the endgame ones) to be a quick attempt to read everyone and look for discrepancies.

[bv310]

When's the D1 deadline?

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Thanks. Man, that's gonna be a long week and a half. we either have to do a new push to actually do something or we're gonna have a deadlock, which just screws over town.

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I think at this point, the Ace wagon is just based on the mild suspicion earlier, as well as a desire to not end the day in a deadlock. Really, Ace, Neto, and TKaBN are all semi-suspicious.

[bv310]

Dumb Americans, with their Thanksgiving in November.

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I'm going to do an in-depth reread Sunday. No more papers before exams means I actually have time to commit to this game.

[bv310]

Math term project jumped out of nowhere. Gonna have my post up later tonight *fingers crossed*

[bv310]

First things first, Chau, I misread the first page and thought that Brother was the second vote on Ace, not the first.

And now, since I did promise this, my page-by-page read.

Page 1: Nothing of real value, some friendly banter, and a bit of excitement to start.

Page 2: TKaBN here seemed quite overeager to establish himself as a newbie, and trying to get everyone overanalyzing right off the bat.

Ace is the first person to vote in the RVS. Nik starts the Ace voting in a quick followup, but quickly changes to Chau.

Page 3: Neto starts this page with the set of questions that really started this game off.
Instant defensive position taken by Ace, as well as Nik avoiding answering the important questions.
Subsequent arguing between Neto and Nik ensues.
BN jumps in with an unsubstantiated vote against Ace, then the page becomes a quick rail of me after I tried to play defensively.
Also, TKaBN comes in with his bizarre "Random Lynching" suggestion.

Page 4: TKaBN's random lynch suggestion gets shot down, and Billybailey enters the thread.

Billy opens with some really strange posting style, before normalising.

Kirby OMGUS's Billy, which could either be played off as a newbie move, or a proper scumtell.

Chau answers the questions, and analyses while she's at it. Points out my flaws in my answers, and points out a very concise argument against me.

Neto answers his own questions, and analyses the answers we gave. Very good points in this one for TKaBN and Kirby, along with a little bit of question dodging by Ace.

Page 5: Strange posts from Kirby, giving an impression of trying to distance himself from his previous posts.

Chau keeps going with her questioning, and points out some really good points relating to SEs and ICs.

TKaBN brings up some valid points against Ace, and vice versa.

Page 6: This is when things get fun. Ace opens with an explanation of why he answered the way he did. This post and the next page or two are where my suspicion towards Ace really came forward, as I outlined before.

Kirby posts some odd Youtube link.

BN comes in and points out how TKaBN is distancing himself from Ace

TKaBN again reiterates his newbie status (which I still feel could be a red herring). He also starts bringing up the idea of Scum Buddies, which seems to be an attempt to force suspiscion on me and Ace. Chau's response also seems suspicious, since looking for patterns of scum behaviour towards a "partner" would be a good waay to catch them.

I outlined my point about Ace trying to distance and associate with me at the same time, and everyone started making excuses for American Thanksgiving.

Page 8: Not alot happening, alot of discussion on the definitions of "Flipping" and "Fencesitting", as well as some American Thanksgiving based grumbling.

Kirby comes in with a post at the end that really seems counter-productive. He argues that the only way to make the game move is by lynching, then decides to keep his vote against Billy, for no real substantiated reason.

Page 9: Excuses and rereads. Neto raises some extremely valid points, which is why I waited to post my thoughts. Some of his ideas made a lot of sense, and I had to go back and reread again to see what he meant.

My current feelings:

Ace - Reads scummily to me, but that's been my feeling since a few pages in.

Billy - Seems sloppy, and the lurking is not winning you points in my book. Reads scummy to me.

BN - No real contributions here, seems relatively null at this point

Chau - I like the way she's actively trying to find info, and her points are extremely good. Reads Town/Null to me.

Kirby - I don't like your playing so far at all. It seems very empty, like you're trying to look like you're contributing.

Neto - Great points with the questions, but I still find them suspicious. I'd be williing to call you Town, but that could change quickly.

Nikanor - Again, very nice in-depth reads into posts, sound logic. Null.

TKaBN - My #1 suspect right now. Rereading the thread has made me suspicious of how he throws himself around to whatever the prevailing suspicion is, and the repeated references to being new to the game seems like a ploy to distract from his content.

Unvote: Ace, Vote: TKaBN

[bv310]

Not gonna lie, I did use the same format as you. It was easier for me to follow the same way you did, but changing the info to what I think. If I knew it was gonna get me tagged as scum, I wouldn't have put the effort in.

As for "not thinking on my own", there's not really enough info yet to get a difference oof opinions, except in the smallest things.

[bv310]

To be totally honest Chau, I'm mostly going on my gut reaction for these people.

I find your posts slightly more normal (for lack of a better word) than Nik's. Between Neto and Nik, I still find Neto's questioning odd, but not odd enough to call him scum. His questioning so far has been very probing for someone who plays defensively, but that might just be because he's trying to make us think before we post.

[bv310]

How do you mean I'm "independently scummy"?

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As close as we are to deadline...yeah they are. The threshhold of evidence to lynch diminishes the closer we get.

BV: I meant that you're not scummy for lack of content or posting, whereas the other 3 are.

I post the most in here, next to you and Nik. And maybe Chau.

[bv310]

Gotcha. Guess I'll lurk a bit more, since posting makes me seem scummy.

[bv310]

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. And yeah, I'm not used to how to post in these games without being too blatant or holding too much back.

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I mostly moved away from Ace for now, just so we don't end in a deadlock. If you do happen to flip town, then I'm sorry.

[bv310]

You know, I've never seen a bandwagon bandwagon before.

[bv310]

Also,

Of course, it is also typical of newbie play (as he ever so often reminds us), so read it as you will.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. That's actually my main reason for suspicion atm.

[bv310]

Bloody lurker. I don't think we have time to keep changing posts willy-nilly though. We only have until tomorrow.

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Crap. Wait. Just saw that the deadlines not until next week. My bad.

[bv310]

I was waiting until you guys chose which lurker to go for. I think I agree with your plan on Billy, but I don't want to be the first one.

[bv310]

That's me. I put my real name earlier just to make things easier for me to see. Bv never stands out to me when I'm reading.

[bv310]

It is the username you chose so I think you need to pay more attention when reading. Post 273 I asked you a question. Please answer.

No, I am not still comfortable with my vote. I left it before because I had no better target. I'm starting to think that voting for anyone at this point is a bad move. Everytime I move my vote to someone I find more suspicious, I get called scummier for it.
I will not be putting in a vote for this day, I don't think there's enough to go on. Yes I am entirely aware this goes against what I said before, but rereading this whole game again has made me realise that every vote I make is another shot against me.

Why are you afraid of being blatant or holding too much back? Townies main concern is to catch scum. You shouldn't be concerned with your image amongst town but rather focusing your energy on getting more information in order to catch scum. Which brings me to the next point.

Again, why wait for our decision and why do you want to avoid being the first? If you were waiting for us to decide that means your vote for kill is easily swayed yet you decided that while waiting for US to make the decision you were going to continue to keep kill on L1? Were you hoping for an easy hammer by leaving your vote? Your posts are noncommittal and you seem to be more afraid of hurting your reputation then catching scum.

I'm not afraid of my "reputation". I'm afraid because every single post I make (probably including this one) seems to convince you more and more that I'm scum. As for the TKaBN situation, I wasn't aiming for an "easy hammer". I was hoping to finally end this day and get on with the game, since all that's happening now is a bunch of flipflopping and finger-pointing. Every time one person raises suspicion, everybody else has jumped all over it (I'm guilty of this with TKaBN, I know.) Not to mention the only time I actually tried to analyze I got called a piggybacker by Neto. Apparently nothing I can do on this day will help us whatsoever (since everytime I post, it gets ripped apart and the scum get more time)

You jumped form the ace bandwagon to the kill bandwagon rather easily and you even stated your justification for voting tokill was due to 'gut reads' when I questioned you. As someone stated before gut reads can be important to any scum catcher but I think you need more then

just

gut read to vote someone. This concerns me because you didn't seem to have more reasons to vote kill then to vote ace yet you chose to switch your vote right after nika began his suspicion on the people bandwagoning ace.

I believe I explained this above, I switched because I want to get this day over with and get a bit more info to work with. At this point, by Day Two, we're not even going to be able to discuss anything, it's just going to be a bunch of fingerpointing.

_____________________________________________________________

I don't get it. What did you mean by "story of the townsfolk". And what seems scummy? The questions in general, or a specific question?

The questions in general, but specifically #7. By "story of the townsfolk", I meant that from a roleplaying standpoint, I don't think an actual townsperson would have these questions ready to bust out at a town council meeting.

First you say that the person who asked the question in the first place is scummy [enough to merit a vote!], then you turn around and answer it?

Also, why didn't you answer the questions that Netopolis asked you about your vote?

I did, if you check the posts later, I answered all of the questions that I tried to avoid the first time. I changed my opinion about his questions after I saw that they were actually helpful in starting the game rolling.

Also, what do you mean by "how many roles were given"?

I explained this too. In the other games I've played on other sites, the mod revealed how many power roles were given out, but not which ones, or what side got them.

UNVOTE: Tokillablockingnerd

[bv310]

I didn't mean to sound pouty (although that's what it looks like in retrospect, sorry), I'm just frustrated that every time we seem to be getting somewhere, it gets brought back to square one, and it moves to a different target. It seems like every time it stems from Neto in some way or another.

So far, the only real slips I've seen have been on TKaBN, Billy, and Neto. BN was suspicious to me before, but now that he's been replaced I have no real read. You and Nikanor both seem extremely town. Ace is somewhere in the middle. I'm going to leave my no-vote in place for now, and I'd like to wait for some posts by the lurkers before I make a real decision.

[bv310]

In any case I'm ready to bang my head against the table. I'm prepared to give up my attempt to get more information since it seems like the fruits of my labor aren't delivering. I'm at a point where I'm ready to hammer someone if you guys agree to it. But as we have two people still waiting to be replaced we might get stuck in N1. *sighs*

I agree with this, except I've already given up.

[bv310]

Since I just found out I'm going to be V/LA until the deadline, I'm going to

vote: TKaBN

for the reasons I outlined earlier.

(OOC: I may get online once or twice between now and Wednesday, but I doubt it. Network Maintenance here at uni plus exam week means massive stress on my part, which as we've seen, is not when I should be playing a thinking game)

[bv310]

Dang. Finally finished exams and I come back to see I've been hammered. Ah well, nice playing with you folks. See you on the other side.

(OOC: I don't think this post is against the rules since the thread's not locked, but if it is, my bad.)

[bv310]

I hope you didn't take my questioning of you personal bv. =( And I hope you keep playing!

Definitely playing again. Hopefully this time my real life won't start butting in. Wayyyy too much stress these last two weeks.

Also, since it's still not nighttime yet, I'd liike to reiterate that my opinions are still the same as they were a few pages ago. I'm betting TKaBN, Ace, or Neto as scum.

[bv310]

Totally called Kirby back on Day 1. Kinda embarassing ti read myself in iso in this one now though >.<

[bv310]

I wasn't used to actually having to explain myself. This was a pretty good learning curve though. I've been lurking this game since I went out. Still surprised TKaBN wasn't scum.