Newbie 878 (Game Over: scum victory)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Mylynes

Obvscum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oh and I'm your IC here to help guide youse fine folk if you have any questions about the game. You can call me Debonair Danny DiPietro, Danny, Triple D, DDD, or even "hey you" as long as you make it clear that I'm the "hey you" you're talking about. Now back to the rest of you helping me lynch Mylynes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So far (In this order) I voted for Linehouse, "for reasons unexplained yet." Debonair Danny DiPietro voted for me with the comment, "Obvscum." Arthur Dent voted for Xzy, "For not being in alphabetical order." Fongoid voted jmj3000, "because he's spending too much time plotting how to win as scum instead of taking 10 seconds to upload an avvie." jmj3000 has random voted for Debonair Danny DiPietro, "by alphabatizing players and flipping a coin." Then Linehouse voted for animorpherv1, "because he's the only other SE besides me."

Scum posting pointless filler. This recap doesn't help the town at all, but looks busy. Lynch the scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro - I would still very much like an explanation for your original agression towards me. If you are scum you may continue to lurk as I get lynched then become a confirmed townie or you can continue your agression to get me lynched and become a confirmed townie. Either way I hope that my death will at least result in a scumkill for the town.

FYI just because you don't have a job or life doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat with you. I haven't been gone from this game for twelve hours and now I'm lurking? Silly scum.

As Mylynes should know from going through my games the last newbie game I IC'ed one of the scum immediately opened with "interesting questions" to learn and get reads on people. In the game I modded another scum did the exact same thing. These questions are of no practical use and yet they look busy and is answered "incorrectly" can be twisted to bad end. Classic scum tactic.

Oh and you can summarize things if you plan on using them in a case or something, but we do not need a recap for the sake of a recap every page or so. If you need to do it, do it privately and then when you have something relevant to say, parse it from your recap and just post the important part and why it's important.

And why did I attack you? Because that's what you do. Would voting for Arthur Dent because he's a fictional character moved the game forward? No. But finding something scummy in what you've done and pushing you on it does move the game forward and helps give reactions and thoughts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Mylynes, it seems to me that you are just posting walls of text to try and discourage us from reading them and determining if there is anything scummy in your posts, which to me is very scummy in and of itself.

Vote: Mylynes

Putting Mylynes at L-1, that's mighty aggressive for someone who prior to this had cast a single random vote and was more notable for his inability to use tags then his scum hunting. You'll need more than a single sentence to explain that one to me.

Unvote

Not done with Mylynes by any stretch, but don't want confusion leading to an unnecessary claim or lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also DDD, why'd you unvote if you were sure Mylynes was scum? I don't think you're scum myself, but I'm curious why you thought Mylynes being at L-1 was dangerous.

Ani, had it exactly right there's absolutely no need for a quick hammer because even if Mylynes is scum it could cost us valuable connections for later in the game. Given the possibility exists that he actually is town then there's basically nothing good that occurs from leaving him at L-1. Also, I'm never ready to lynch D1 until five pages or so have passed, too little information from the whole town.

Oh and jmj, good posting in response to my question.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nobody else? At least jmj3000 went for it. +1 suspicious point on jmj3000.

It seems from re-reading that people want to hear what I have to say sooner rather than later and I have prolonged things long enough to get some interesting posts so I will go ahead and post the reveal now and then see where things end up going while I'm gone today. I would like to hear Everyone's opinions on this.

The entire point of me drawing everyone's attention was to draw out scum by seeing who would love to help out with an easy mislynch. The point behind announcing my future claim as being a threat to scum and wanting to wait before revealing it was designed to do the same thing. Making myself more a target for the scum(which jmj3000 seems to have taken the bait).

I am willing to gamble with my life to draw out the scum as so far some information could become very incriminating to scum after my death. Because of me gambling with my life until now it should also make me appear more vanilla townie than doctor to the scum while asking an SE which target he would protect if he is the doc could make me appear more doc than vanilla townie. Much of what I have done so far has been leading up to throwing off the scum by setting up the WIFOM. After re-analyzing everything so far I would like to FOS: jmj3000, DDD, and danakillsu in that order.


I am the doctor.

If I am not really the doctor and there is a doctor in this game you should not counterclaim at this point. If I am scum this would only succeed in letting the scum kill the real doctor assuming I am not the real doctor.

Assuming nobody is counterclaiming me the scum will be completely thrown off by this claim. They will be stuck in a vicious cycle of WIFOM about their NK which could destroy any early game night strategy that they have.

The scum now need me dead, badly. Therefore, they will probably try to get me lynched to save them the trouble of NKing me. This would be something to watch out for. They also need to decide each night whether or not to NK me, but it's more complicated than that. If I am not the doctor then the real doctor could choose to protect me and stop their kill or the doctor could choose to let me die which confirms me as town and protects our power roles anyways so it's a gain for the town.

However, since I am the real claimed doctor I can operate completely in the open, discussing my protection possibilities with the rest of the town thus forcing the mafia to limit their night strategy even further and allowing me to manipulate it in a manner that best helps the town. If I am not the real doctor and their is a doctor in this game then my selection of possible protection targets would not only still serve to throw off the scums NK but also allow the real doctor to do what ever he wants while remaining hidden.

Please note that though you may have doubts about the usefulness of this claim there is a purpose behind it. If it is not completely apparent to you that is good because it means that it is not completely apparent to the scum either. It is steeped in WIFOM so deep as to leave the scum utterly susceptible to manipulation and control but it ultimately depends on how they choose to react to it.

/headdesk till I get a Diego Sanchez size cut in my forehead.

Seriously, this was about the worst play ever. BTW we have no reason to suspect you're town so why on Tiger Woods' green Earth would we allow you to dictate whether someone should counterclaim or not. Put it like this... IF YOU ARE NOT THE DOCTOR THEN YOU NEED TO CLAIM VANILLA IN YOUR NEXT POST or else we will allow for counterclaims and if there is one we will lynch you.

Seriously, I want to cry because that play was so bad. Fuck.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

See the problem here is that you're trying to hide behind a power role claim without having to bear the negative of that claim by facing a counterclaim and we have absolutely no reason to allow you to do that.

Say for example you are town and we decide to follow your plan and then we fuck up day one and two, so on day three either you have to break your word and effectively get lynched for it and lose the game anyways or get lynched and we lose the game. This is bad.

Then let's say you're scum by agreeing not to lynch you we're dropped the town's probability of lynching correctly in half which is ruinous. Then we get to D3 after we've screwed up twice because of our vastly reduced percentages and you can pull out the very argument used above to renege. Even if we do lynch scum-you then we're still in LYLO with less usual connections than otherwise because we were just following your plan.

The only good scenario is completely contingent on you being town and us lynching correctly day one and/or two. And we could do that without you throwing this boiling pot of WIFOM on us.

In conclusion, A you will provide the link to the theoretical game you mention and B you will claim either Doc or VT. If you refuse then I will throw my vote back on you for your sheer anti-town behavior and regardless of your role I'll consider it a positive for getting rid of such a liability and a highly likely to be scum one at that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

See the problem here is that you're trying to hide behind a power role claim without having to bear the negative of that claim by facing a counterclaim and we have absolutely no reason to allow you to do that.

True I could be scum hiding behind a power role but do you really believe that to be true? If so why?

If I didn’t believe it to be a distinct possibility, I wouldn’t be putting you in the position I am, now would I? You’re scum there’s an early push on you and a push on no one else, the person who just put you at L-1 had a very reasonable response and you’re feeling boxed in so you decide to claim a PR but because of your reading you think you can set it up so you don’t have to risk a counterclaim and by taking yourself off the board for potentially being lynched the first two days you help your team a lot.

Maybe you’re failing to see the issue clearly here, let’s look at the difference between playing this straight and your failure of an idea…

Scenario A) You’re town and we lynch incorrectly D1 and D2.
Normal) We’re in LYLO, but hopefully we have a shot because of the various connections that have been made.
Your Plan) We’re forced to lynch you, you’re town, town loses, scum wins.
Advantage: Normal

Scenario B) You’re town and we lynch correctly D1 and/or D2.
Normal) We win the game or can draw connections to find the other scum with at least two lynches available.
Your Plan) We win the game or can draw connections but are forced to waste a lynch on you D3 leaving us in probable LYLO.
Advantage: Neutral to Normal

Scenario C) You’re scum
Normal) We likely lynch you today and use the connections to find your scum partner. We gain a big advantage from lynching correctly D1.
Your Plan) Instead of lynching you D1 we push lynching you off to D3, because of that our chances of lynching scum are severely reduced. We get a lynch off scum on D3, but we begin D4 in probable LYLO with no useful connections from lynching you because we

have

to lynch you.
Advantage: Normal

None of these scenarios helps the town, worst case we’re equally as well off if you play this straight. You are not a special and unique flower who the rules somehow don’t apply to.

Please explain how I could possibly WIFOM the scum without simultaneously WIFOMing the town?

THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS NOT TO WIFOM SCUM. THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO FIND SCUM AND KILL THEM AND YOU ARE MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE TOWN TO DO THAT.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

***If you do not claim whether you are the doctor or a vanilla townie, I will cast a vote to lynch you as soon as we move onto a sixth page and I will advocate for someone else to do the same. Unless you believe there to be four other people willing to support your insipid plan you will almost certainly be lynched, hurting whichever side you represent. Chose wisely.***

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am the doctor and you failed to mention the possibility of me playing the way to draw out scum as the doctor.

Draw out? If you mean a counterclaim then there's absolutely no chance of that because it doesn't benefit scum at all to go one for one. If you're suggesting that your obnoxiously scummy play will draw scum to your "easy" lynch, small problem there because the town is trying to lynch the scummy players as well. You do not make things easier for the town by making yourself an easy target, you make things harder.

You also fail to see that this could help throw off the mafias nightgame.

No, I see it perfectly well. Except if the scum team has an IQ higher than that of a box of hammers they'd already account for the possibility of a doctor. Your play only makes it easier to locate power roles and thus handle them as scum.

If you are able to kill me then based on re-reading your moves so far and based on how you have played in your previous games I have a very strong feeling that you are scum.

I have a very strong feeling that regardless of your alignment you think you're a whole lot smarter than you actually are.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Two scenarios: either he's scum, or he's not. If he's scum, and we don't lynch, you say it's harder to find the other scum. That's true, but we still need to find the other scum, so why would we not even look? Town can benefit from more scumhunting, not a quicklynch. If we decide to lynch Mylynes in a week and a half, it's better for town as more information has gotten out.

If he's scum and we lynch elsewhere then just on statistics alone our probability of lynching correctly drops from 22% to 12.5%. That also ignores the fact that it's much harder to find one scum in a group of players compared to finding a pair of scum in a group of players. Often it is not the individual action of someone which catches them as scum, but their connections with other players. By granting this theoretical pass to Mylynes all his connections become stilted and perfunctory which hurts the town.

If he's not scum and we don't lynch him, then they have a very interesting NK phase ahead, as nobody, scum included, knows what to think. Scum knows slightly more, that he could only be VT or Doc, but even then, it's very WIFOMy as to who to kill.

Why are two newbie players this NK obsessed before the first night? For the town as a whole that's the least important phase of the game. Games are won and lost by what happens in the day phase and Mylynes decided in the interest of some speculative and dubious benefit in that least important phase to throw up a smokescreen for the scum in the most important phase.

I support keeping Mylynes around, as, at the very least, he promotes much discussion, which I already said is good for town.

Generic meaningless platitude.

Also, why are you so interested in what his actual role is? He's either mafia, VT, or doc. Forcing him to definitively roleclaim (if he's pro-town) only hurts town.

Becuase this WIFOM nonsense hurts the town more than it hurts the scum and because there's absolutely no reason to grant Mylynes a free pass.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That also ignores the fact that it's much harder to find one scum in a group of players compared to finding a pair of scum in a group of players. Often it is not the individual action of someone which catches them as scum, but their connections with other players. By granting this theoretical pass to Mylynes all his connections become stilted and perfunctory which hurts the town.

If that is true, why do you want to quicklynch Mylynes? Then we have no more connections on him.

Yes, the guy who unvoted him when he got to L-1 on page three to prevent a quick claim and/or lynch is trying to quicklynch him, child please.

I support keeping Mylynes around, as, at the very least, he promotes much discussion, which I already said is good for town.

Generic meaningless platitude.

You yourself said that town finds scum through their connections during the day...yet severing the connections quickly implies that we have less information to find scum.

And? That doesn't mean stalling till deadline helps the town. Essentially the marginal benefit curve is parabolic with an early steep ascent and then a long plateau before eventually falling off. As long as you hit the plateau then you're fine. I'd argue that we've hit that point and while we shouldn't be rushing at this point there's no need to stall either.

I agree with that. That does not automatically mean you need to know what he is, or to possibly force a doc counter-claim, thus outing doc. Do what I do...ignore the WIFOM argument. In my mind, Mylynes is playing this as either: a dumb scum, a misled townie, a misled doc, or a really stupid cop.

No, if we get an honest claim than we can proceed as normal where a doc counter claim means we've found scum. Big advantage to the town if that's the case.

I will not argue that this action hasn't been very anti-town, I can't. However, I read his play as overenthusiastic townie who saw something work in another game, which shouldn't have.

Alright, I'll step away from this game tonight and then come back tomorrow with a more neutral opinion and see how it reads to me then.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, when I sit down and look at it objectively most of the indicators points towards Mylynes not being scum. And while reading any of his posts angers up my blood significantly because of the baffling combination of hubris and anti-town behavior that's not a reason to push a case on him. I'm not going to respond to his wall post, because that would require answering in kind and that sort of thing actually hurts the town (wall post battles = bad).

Sources have suggested to me that there's a high probability Linehouse is scum, so...

Vote: Linehouse

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sources have suggested to me that there's a high probability Linehouse is scum, so...

Which sources? Other people or yourself? If other people, are you piggybacking?

The Sun God Ra.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, when I sit down and look at it objectively most of the indicators points towards Mylynes not being scum. And while reading any of his posts angers up my blood significantly because of the baffling combination of hubris and anti-town behavior that's not a reason to push a case on him. I'm not going to respond to his wall post, because that would require answering in kind and that sort of thing actually hurts the town (wall post battles = bad).

Sources have suggested to me that there's a high probability Linehouse is scum, so...

Vote: Linehouse

That is fine but would you mind answering one of my questions? If you have not been playing with a neutral opinion so far then what kind of opinion have you been playing with?

I am also interested in why you believe linehouse to be scum.

A) I don't take time to reassess the entire game state after every post, no one does. Usually things accumulate and when you add up your myriad of scummy and anti-town actions you've done it means you need to die. But as Fongoid basically suggested maybe I was too tunneled and so I stepped away and looked at several other indicators I like to check and they came back heavily town. And a fairly convincing narrative can be constructed that you're merely "special" and not malicious. So while I might hammer you given the opportunity today because it would feel

so

good, I'm going to try and minimize my interaction with you so I don't blow my top again.

B) Those same metrics I evaluated for you came back suggesting he was likely scum. When he does appear to be scumhunting well his latest target was the low hanging fruit of dana which doesn't inspire me with much confidence. I see a player going through the motions in linehouse which can be symptomatic of scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

In regards to DDD, I don't really know how to respond to that, since I'm not really sure what you are referring to. In my experience, there are usually two kinds of Mafia, the aggressive type or the overly quiet type. dana fits that overly quiet type. He has repeatedly refused to answer certain questions addressed to him, and doesn't contribute to the discussion much.

I'm more than happy to better explain my logic, but I guess I just don't understand what you mean by "going through the motions".

First off in newbie games that's not really right. You're much more likely to find scum in the middle 50% than the bottom and top 25 percents combined. Playing aggresive is risky, lurking is actually risky, scum are much more likely to sit in the middle and do enough not to arouse suspicion, but not too much where they might make mistakes. Much like you've done.

By going through the motions you've done everything you're "supposed" to do, but it doesn't appear to me that there's any conviction behind any of it. You random vote because you're supposed to, then drop some minor suspicions and then vote for a lurker. It's like you don't have your own point of view, you have an idea of how town is supposed to play and you're matching that. To which I say hello scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Perfect wins don't happen often. It isn't worth confusing the town over.

Then for now lets focus on catching scum. Anyone have any ideas on where we should go from here? It is getting later in the day phase and the games activity level seems to have dropped a lot recently. Or is this around the normal speed for this game?

Here's a good policy, if you find that you don't even know how to get a game moving when it slows or how fast a game is supposed to go, then maybe you shouldn't be the one trying stupidly risky gambits. Just a thought.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: In your IC role, what could you tell a new player, such as myself, regarding common scumtells that aren't on the wiki?

That the wiki is at best unreliable because everyone's read it so everyone knows to avoid the tells it outlines. Most of things that I could call tells I use are just from the experience of 20+ games and it's probably better that you develop your own set. Other than that I like to look at the quality, consistency, and conviction of people's arguments (in non-newbie games with meta considerations).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thanks Mylynes. unvote. I would like to ask dana what specifcally made you change your mind from Linehouse town -> scum -> town.

I'm not answering that again. You can look at my explanation above. I missed his question and took his second question as his first. This caused me to do what LOOKED like a flip-flop but wasn't. I'm going to

vote: DDD

until he gives me a real explanation of his cryptic statement.

What possible "sources" could I have, you twit? It was an expression, nothing more. If you want the reasons why I voted for him those are detailed over the last two pages that you still probably haven't read.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer. Mylynes play has just completely rendered the town unable to scumhunt and even if he's town I think it's better to send it to night and come back tomorrow with a fresh start.

Mylynes, the reason Kairyuu's gambit worked is not because of WIFOMing the scum, it worked because he is a good player who was capable of leading the town. If he hadn't pulled the gambit there's a good chance that town still would've won because Kairyuu still would have been able to scumhunt and capably lead the town. You have not demonstrated these abilities at all and thus have merely hurt the town by shrowding the entire game in a fog of WIFOM that they've/we've been unable to get past.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Or you're scum. In fact your claim is all you keep falling back on as the reason for not lynching you and that's always a weak reason.

And you continue to not read what I write. When you step away from the norm it is your responsibility to ensure that things continue as smoothly as they would have otherwise, you have failed in this regard. My point isn't that Kairyuu was more experienced, but that he is a capable scumhunter and persuasive and able to lead the town. You have been utterly unimpressive in your scumhunting with only a sad stab at a case on me that fizzled out and by your inability to keep the town from focusing on your WIFOM you've demonstrated no leadership capabilities. You decided to play this way, it is your responsibility to make something positive out of it and you have not. At this point I truly believe it's better to take a crack at the chance that you're scum and more importantly clear the air for us tomorrow.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If people don't have any qualms with me bumping Mylynes up to L-1 then I will make that vote. I'm not denying my second proposed option. I just don't have a viable target on my radar that stands up to Mylynes.

No, nobody respond to this. If you think lynching Mylynes is the right move then you make it. This "what does the town think" attitude is that of scum who want to not put a foot out of line with the rest of the town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Or you're scum. In fact your claim is all you keep falling back on as the reason for not lynching you and that's always a weak reason.

Anyone could be scum. You say I am falling back on my claim as the reason for not lynching me and say that it's a weak reason but isn't this also the weak reason that you want to get me lynched? If not feel free to point out why you think I'm scum other than my claim. And yea I think me being the doctor would qualify as a reason to at least make it to D2.

Nope, I want you gone becuase of scummy things you did earlier, your inability to scumhunt, and to rid the town of the paralyzing web of WIFOM you've thrown over it. Besides, you want scum to think you're either the doctor or vanilla townie, how am I supposed to know whether you're the doctor or a vanilla townie then? I see no reason to respect a doctor claim that you yourself won't stand behind.

When you step away from the norm it is your responsibility to ensure that things continue as smoothly as they would have otherwise, you have failed in this regard.

Mind giving me a list of all my responsibilities? Lol.. but yea this is my first game and I am here primarily to experiment and learn. Despite me stepping away from the norm you should know as IC that as a newbie I am still unsure as to what the norm is. I doubt any new player would know what the norm is here.

And that's why you look before you leap, if you read as many games you claim then you would know that what Kai did is not normal. If you had asked me about the idea in the RVS I would've told you it was a bad idea. But you didn't think this through and now we have to deal with the consequences of your actions. I am here to act as a guide and advisor, I am not here to hand out second chances to people I have no reason to trust.

It may not feel like it, but I gave you a chance to make this work, I backed away from your lynch and bothered someone else, but instead of the town springing forward, the game stagnated and people came back to the same old arguments about you. Something has to change and since we don't just force replace out an entire game based on how it's going the thing that has to change is you.

My point isn't that Kairyuu was more experienced, but that he is a capable scumhunter and persuasive and able to lead the town.

Wouldn't him being more experienced and being a more capable scumhunter/persuasive/leading the town go hand in hand? I believe your point was very clearly that Kairyuu is more experienced than me.

I know experienced players who suck and I see players who get it in their first game. Experience often helps, but that's not what I'm talking about. Don't try and pretend that I'm picking on you because you're new, if I'm picking on you it's because you put the town in a bad situation and have been unable to get them past it. As to why this is your responsibility and not mine? If you're town you're the only one who knows it right now (well along with scum and they probably won't help you out) that means no one else has any reason to put any trust in you beyond what you earn.

I've already suggested that it would be a good idea to not focus on the WIFOM for the moment but people seem to still want to focus on it. Forgive me for not having complete control over the town as I do not wish to be town leader.

Too bad, that's the role you picked when you decided to make the game all about you.

You decided to play this way, it is your responsibility to make something positive out of it and you have not. At this point I truly believe it's better to take a crack at the chance that you're scum and more importantly clear the air for us tomorrow.

I won't have a chance to make something positive out my until the first night phase. Seems like you don't want me to have that chance. Unless you count the conversation resulting from my claim as something positive.

See, you're giving up the day phase for the night phase. You've chosen to play NOT when the town is strongest in the day, but when the town is weakest, at night. If we win this game it will because of what we do during the day since you basically admit here that you'll only be of use at night then there's no reason to keep you around.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, I won't comment on Xzy's post, but...

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer.

If you want to lynch Mylynes, put a vote on him. Why would you refrain from voting unless it was a sure lynch? Afraid that putting pressure on Mylynes will come back to haunt you if he ends up not being lynched?

I want the pleasure of hammering him myself. If I was afraid of pressuring him I wouldn't have come out and said that I would hammer on a L-1 vote, now would I?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright, I won't comment on Xzy's post, but...

Xzy if you want to toss on an L-1 vote, I'll hammer.

If you want to lynch Mylynes, put a vote on him. Why would you refrain from voting unless it was a sure lynch? Afraid that putting pressure on Mylynes will come back to haunt you if he ends up not being lynched?

I want the pleasure of hammering him myself. If I was afraid of pressuring him I wouldn't have come out and said that I would hammer on a L-1 vote, now would I?

This game isn't about pleasure for town, it's about lynching scum. The way I read it, you don't think Mylynes is scum, you just want the satisfaction of hammering him to relieve your frustration. If you truly believed that Mylynes was scum, why wouldn't you vote him?

Well I thought he was at L-2, which the latest vote count suggests is incorrect so that also played into things because I thought I could just set up a two man lynching crew and make it happen, but it appears that won't work.

Unvote; Vote: Mylynes

And you're right I don't think Mylynes is any more likely to be scum than pure random chance, but when I look at how this game is going I do not see the town winning if Mylynes is alive, things like morale, motivation, and clarity of purpose are extremely underrated in how they relate to scumhunting and Mylynes has hurt the town in all those factors. We obviously can't leave scum-Mylynes alive and town-Mylynes is providing too much cover for scum. He's had opportunities to rectify the situation and he's either unwilling or unable to do so, which means it's time to take the problem into our own hands.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You know what I wrote out counter arguments to everything you said in the beginning of your post Mylynes, but it’s all irrelevant because it comes down to one thing.

Your gambit has led to people excessively focusing on you, it has allowed the game to stagnate when it is not focused on your stupid claim, and it had enabled scum to hide in the background. These are facts that you have been unable to argue and they are negatives so large that they subsume any possible benefits your stupid WIFOM offers the town. The above also ignores the distinct possibility that you are scum from a neutral perspective. Given this there is a distinct advantage to the town in lynching you because beyond the possibility that you are scum it also clears the most detrimental player from the board.

~~~

1. You said you want me gone because of scummy things I did earlier and fail to mention said things then go on to say that you don't think I am any more likely to be scum than pure random chance. Please explain this.

[quote="Debonair Danny DiPietro]Scum posting pointless filler. This recap doesn't help the town at all, but looks busy.[/quote]

As Mylynes should know from going through my games the last newbie game I IC'ed one of the scum immediately opened with "interesting questions" to learn and get reads on people. In the game I modded another scum did the exact same thing. These questions are of no practical use and yet they look busy and is answered "incorrectly" can be twisted to bad end. Classic scum tactic.

The above are scumtells I mentioned early in the game. At a certain point (five pages) I look to do a numerical analysis and that came back heavily town on you, if you are scum that would break a five game trend of correctly identifying four town players in each game. So I have contradictory information between the scumtells and my numbers; I generally trust my numbers but at this point because of the bolded above you deserve to die.

2. You claim that you are here to act as a guide and advisor. What have you done as guide and advisor so far?

I see three posts that meet the criteria, my intro, my suggestion to you to recap privately and answering a question from Fongoid about the wiki. Personally, I believe the IC to be a more passive role, I’m here as a resource for people to use, not to train you people to play follow the IC.

3. Other than me who have you really pursued as scum?

Who have I pursued? Linehouse, I questioned jmj a little and I think fongoid have a useful back and forth going as well.

Due to a better read on you right now I believe you are scum. This would be based on your previous history and also based on the quality, consistency, and conviction of your arguments. Sound familiar?
So..

Unvote

Vote: DDD

Nope your read on me is terrible and while you won’t admit it I’d bet five bucks that the primary reason you think I’m scum is because my behavior very superficially matches that of scum in 750. Of course on actual examination the comparison falls apart, but at this point I have yet to see anything from you that suggests that you’re capable of such analysis.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well it appears that since I missed a quote tag you completely mangled the whole thing and then tried to refute things that weren't even arguments themselves, they were evidence. And so the entire thing is an unreadable mass, well done.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

V/LA - I'll be back Saturday

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote

I'll be back later tonight.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If anything I doubt the scum are hiding in the background especially since you seem to enjoy getting an "easy misslynch" when you play as scum. How is there a distinct advantage to the town in lynching the doc OR a VT? We should be focused on lynching scum.

A) How is this an “easy” “mislynch”? I mean I unvoted when you got to L-1 when it would’ve been easy for a dumb townie or a hypothetical-scum partner to toss down an early hammer, which would’ve been easy. If your lynch was “easy” then you’d be dead by now so don’t give me that nonsense that I was fishing for an easy lynch.

B) There are plenty of time when there’s a benefit to lynching a townie, it’s called a policy lynch. You usually do it to someone who will ruin the game in one way or another or make it impossible for your side to win. Thus by removing this person the game is then fun or winnable or both. You couple the benefits of a policy lynch along with the possibility that you’re scum and your death looked mighty attractive to me.

~~~

But as to why I unvoted? Because frankly this isn’t fun for me for anymore, I could literally pick apart your entire last post like I did the above and I don’t feel like it would get me anywhere. No one would vote you because of it and you would just ignore it because it feels to me like half of your responses just ignore what I wrote anyways. So if you’re scum congrats because you broke the last vestige of the town’s actual resistance against you.

~~~

I’m really disappointed in the SEs in this game, maybe I’m just spoiled because I co-IC’d my last game with Zorblag and prior to that Raskol was my SE in the two previous games, but Linehouse and Animorph have continually underwhelmed me in their play. I'm voting one of them in my next post when I go back through their posts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maybe because you were the only one really pushing for my death at the time and as confirmed townie it would have looked bad for you. At the time with you backing off of L-1 you could have been the hammer for the quicklynch yourself or pushed to get me lynched without having your vote on me if someone had put me back at L-1. Most of my votes then were random though.

No, the hammer would've looked bad; the L-1 vote would have not looked great. I would've been fine as scum because I would have conveniently disappeared and then come back indignant that people took the case I was pushing solely for informational purposes seriously and lynched someone on page three. There’s no chance I get in serious trouble because I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing, looking for scumtells and pushing those arguments.

But this is all part of my larger point, you claim to have this great meta read of me that includes me as scum usually trying for and getting easy lynches. But in this game when I toss away a chance at the easiest possible lynch it’s still an indictment of me somehow. You’re going to do whatever it is you want to do regardless of reality; so there’s absolutely no point in talking with you.

~~~

Vote: animorpherv1

, he's scum and he needs to die.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD never gave a reason in his post why he's voting for me (he's scum and needs to die is something a scum would say, imo).

vote:DDD

. The only reason I haven't been posting here is that I forgot and I've been lazy.

You didn't deserve a reason at the time because you weren't even here. Now that you're here I can level my accusations to your face.

Initially you vote for Mylynes "to get discussion going" except there were already plenty of things to discuss, from my attack on Mylynes to Dana making sure that we realized his vote was still "random" to Linehouse voting for you even randomly. Yet instead of actualy discussing anything you toss a cheap vote on the biggest wagon and mosey away. Then you try to buddy me minorly by saying that you'd protect me for nothing more than being the IC.

Then later you say, "My vote now has some substance to it." which seems to imply that you're not interested in whether or not you're voting for the right person, but that your vote doesn't appear to be a weak vote. Then there's the limited amount of content you provide even before your computer troubles where you fire off single liners that you never even appear to follow up on. All in all it's just weak play from someone whose been around long enough to know better.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Initially you vote for Mylynes "to get discussion going" except there were already plenty of things to discuss, from my attack on Mylynes to Dana making sure that we realized his vote was still "random" to Linehouse voting for you even randomly.

It was page 2. Not much to go on.

Except I already noted at least three things you could've talked about and that you chose simply not to address.

Yet instead of actualy discussing anything you toss a cheap vote on the biggest wagon and mosey away. Then you try to buddy me minorly by saying that you'd protect me for nothing more than being the IC.

To see how everyone would react. As for buddying, I just thought at the time that having an IC might be god, as the chances of him being scum are less then him being town. And he'd ab able to help the newbies better then me.

Everyone has a lesser chance of being scum than town do that argument doesn't fly. You are right about that last sentence at least, even Mylynes who thinks I'm the worst IC EVAR would agree to that.

Then later you say, "My vote now has some substance to it." which seems to imply that you're not interested in whether or not you're voting for the right person, but that your vote doesn't appear to be a weak vote.

This was probably the strongest point and you completely avoided it other than to claim general ineptitude.

All in all weak sauce [sarcasm]and now my vote has some substance to it.[/sarcasm]

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - Why did you specifically ask for Xzy to place the L-1 vote?

Because he was around and seemed willing to do so. If I was going to see you lynched it doesn't make sense to try and get someone who isn't around and doesn't want to see you lynched to cast a L-1 vote does it?

I'll look over the case against Xzy later tonight or tomorrow.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No/ineffective scumhunting ~ How do you know?

Might be true, though it's even great justification to lynch Ani cause even Xzy looks great in comparison to him.

Uses a vote to pressure dana (after a convenient case was brought up), then never comments on what that pressure brought ~ Motive explained

If indeed it was a vote to get contributions then it did work, a bit lame but perfectly understandable if that's all it was.

Does not pressure Mylynes, his supposed target, with a vote ~ I applied much of the pressure on Mylynes the whole game. He has been at L-2 most of the game. I have used FoS' on him at least twice.

This is tangentially related to the most interesting point. How is it that Mylynes has completely drawn Xyz's attention and yet Xyz has never voted for him?

Once the winds change, argues AGAINST policy lynching Mylynes ~ A policy lynch on Mylynes is a bad lynch. We should lynch him if we believe him to be scum, or go after someone scummy.

Xzy's explanation takes this point off the board from my reading.

Withholding information from the town that he did not believe would hurt town ~ I succeeded in drawing J.R out and I believe I'm getting a decent handle on him

I withheld information when I voted Ani and called him scum without giving my reasons, it's a classic way to force other people to react with incomplete information.

Some hypocritical OMGUS attacks against the first person to go after him ~ I think I went over this point enough

OMGUS isn't a very convincing point to me, I do it a fair amount as town and almost always have the instinct to do so.

~~~

Xzy, care to clarify how you managed never to vote for Mylynes despite your attention being almost solely focused on him earlier in the day.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I voted for Mylynes because an innocent Townie would never Unvote. He's trying to cause chaos and it's working! jmj3000 fell into his trap by FoSing me. It's all going as Mylynes planned... and I'm not about to let it happen!

Good point.

Unvote; Vote: Mr. Pixie

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have a random question, that's sort of off-topic but still:
Why does it say stuff underneath our usernames? Like why does mine say "Townsperson" underneath while Mylynes's says "Goon"? And DDD has "Mafia Scum"?
Can anyone explain? [/noob]

It's just a Forum Title

"Townsperson" -> "Goon" -> "Mafia Scum" are default titles based on the user's game posts(which you can see by clicking on your profile).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I thought you were acting "scummy" because all throughout the threads (and all the threads I've read over) no one had ever done that. So I thought it was suspicious. But back then I honestly had no idea what I was doing lol as I'm new to this. Looking back, you are probably not scummy, and I apologize for accusing you.


I will now

Unvote

and leave it at that because recently my "votes" have been getting me into some trouble. Therefore, I'll stay neutral for now before I make anyone else FoS/HoS/Vote me.

Oh and this one post is about as bad as all of Mylynes' so far put together. Vote stays.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Prefered lynches are Pixie and Animorpherv.

Xzy is reading town lately and Linehouse's last post is actually a decent one.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Just an FYI I consider a minority lynch a completely unacceptable result for the day.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ani, jmj, Pixie, and Xzy all need to vote for someone who might actually get lynched ASAP.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Deadline in 13 hours, no reason for anyone not to be voting.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: As someone who said that Xzy was "reading as town lately", what do you think about his vote on me?

You keep calling it OMGUS like that means something. It may well be OMGUS, but that's far from synonymous with scummy in my book. Since my read on Xzy is otherwise town that point doesn't sway me at all.

~~~

We have three hours to deadline, someone put down the hammer on Pixie already.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bah.

And for the rest of you who die I ask you to follow rule [005]

Death

: Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I almost PMed Johoohno after day two with a prediction that Linehouse was the other scum but I couldn't commit to it but with that prediction came the realization that if he was scum he was going to coast to victory and he did. My in-game prediction of alive Mylynes = losing town was however proven true.

And jmj don't apologize to Mylynes, what happened wasn't your fault - as I said on day one if you decide to do something like that you take responsibility for the game onto yourself. If you're going to try something "different" then it's your responsibility to make sure it works and Mylynes was not up to the task.

One final thing of actual advice when you get to LYLO. The first thing you should do is ask yourself why the guy who helped lynch the other scum on day two is still alive AND why the two people who were voting each other at the end of day two and throughout day three are still alive? Not saying it always works out so neatly, but you absolutely have to check your assumptions and look at the big picture when you get to that point of the game instead of keeping your tunnelvision going.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So, any tips on how to improve my playstyle?

Sorry about the delay, I just got out of LYLO in one game and still am in LYLO in another game. Here's what I posted in the recently finished game to one player and I think it applies to you jmj. "I think you played just fine. In newbie games I personally think any newbie that doesn't draw my ire and votes has done a fine job because that's half of the equation. The other half of the equation is obviously scumhunting and I'm of the belief that the only way to get better at that is to play more; I don't think there's a magic bullet, the only way to get better is experience and practice. So keep playing and trying and suddenly things will start to click in regards to scumhunting and you'll be just fine, I think you've got plenty of potential."