Newbie 05 - Game Over

[Fishbulb]

...Or, is EnPaceRacquiescat trying to defend his mafia brethren?

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Yeah, don't forget this is a small game. Anyone who throws their vote too easily when it only takes four to lynch looks suspicious in my book.

*makes note in book*

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I don't follow you Mighty Raven. Are you talking about Someone?

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Retrieving after the phantom post.

Remember, always log in first, folks.

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Ah, well that would be true except scum wouldn't be so obvious. They know they'd get heat on it the next day. The best thing for scum is to put votes on early so it isn't as obvious. Then they can try to put the blame on the player who doesn't pay enough attention and puts the final vote on. And this is especially true with only four to lynch.

I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch Vraak X, or that we should, just don't want us to be too hasty since long days are better for the town.

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Sorry, I missed posting my away message in here. Anyway, I am back now.

I think it would be wise to let Vraak X live for now. It was basically random anyway, let's go with someone else, have him announce results tomorrow and see where that takes us. No one came out to defend him, and I think the eager ones are prime suspects for today anyway.

As far as the idea that anyone could claim cop. The best part is, there is only one. If future players claim cop, we

know

one of them is scum. In the meantime, Vraak X will be scrutinized enough that we should be able to spot a fraud quick enough. And, meanwhile, the

real

cop will have better information for investigations. He/she knows Vraak is lying, no need to waste it there. Instead, he can aim for someone who looks like they are defending him.

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Hmmm, wait a sec. I just realized he already "claimed" townie earlier. This is most likely just a ploy to get the

real

cop to come forward so his partner can kill him off.

What do you guys think?

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Well, that'd be viable, except the game is designed to be a mafia game with basic roles. That means none of that nonsense with partner killing and the such.

I don't follow you. What nonsense? There are two Mafia.

Second, how come no one has refuted my claim of cop by claiming cop for themselves?

Because that would be horrible for the real cop to come out this early in the game. Like I said earlier, he could learn more by keeping you alive than by coming out and being a target for the other scum. It's a popular scum tactic to call cop or doc in hopes of getting the real cop or doc to reveal themselves.

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You keep going back and forth, Vraak X. You're saying the real cop should have already came out, but now your argument against the fact that the real cop would keep his mouth shut is that you put off claiming until the end. You're not really addressing any of my points. You didn't even explain your "none of that nonsense" I asked about.

Keep in mind, it looks like I am the only one concerned about whether we lynch you or not. Maybe it would be a good time to put out your suspicions and it might give us a more convincing target to consider.

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What are you talking about Morpheus? Look at my whole post in response to Mighty Raven. I was speaking out

against

lynching him. But then I saw the inconsistency, and just asked him about it. I am not voting for him, and I don't plan to. But it would be a good idea for Vraak to get those who are still on him looking in another direction. I have ideas, but with Vraak in the spotlight, it would be more beneficial to the town for him to give some input. I still do not trust Vraak, so I'm not gonna run to his defense just yet, but I don't want him lynched right now either.

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I still do not trust Vraak,

Well, I do, and it's the best I have, so:

Vote: Fishbulb

Well, just because we don't agree doesn't mean you should vote for me. Besides, there is no reason for us to trust him. Just because another cop didn't come doesn't mean a whole lot. Like I said previously, it would be wise for them to keep their mouth shut instead of falling in a trap. Granted he

could

indeed be the real cop, hence why I am not wanting to hang him. Instead, I am asking him to help us out by pointing elsewhere. It will reveal more about him, and might give us a good candidate.

We've learned a lot already. Some just want to lynch, some don't want to say anything, and some use zero reasoning. This is all usefull stuff, and to give up today because the "best [you] have" is a disagreement in trust is really a waste.

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Vraak X? Why do you keep saying that. We all know the rules here. I just don't get it.

The real cop should not come out just because someone else says they are on the first day. If a mafia is going to be lynched, they will of course claim that hoping the cop will do just that. Hence the reason I am not completely trusting of Vraak X. However, I think it would be in our best interest to keep him alive, since he

could

be the cop and if he's not, it will be obvious fast.

Are you following this time people. You need to read the whole posts to get it. Here's the big finish.

So, since we have no where else to turn, and Vraak still has a few people wanting to vote for him, it would be in his best interest to give us a new direction. No, he doesn't have any information that we haven't got, but since he's in the spotlight, it would make sense for him to give us a nudge towards someone he finds suspicious. He certainly doesn't have to. But something's gotta happen or the town will just get bored (or get deadlined) and lynch him to move on.

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And that is precisely what he did, Flying Dutchman. Then, when all hope was lost he came out as cop. So, you made my point for me. He did claim townie and then switched to cop at the last second. If he knew he was doomed, it would be a good way to at least get a cop outed. However, he has already explained this enough to keep me happy for now.

I'm ready to move on.

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He even posted just a few hours ago. He's either not interested in this game, or lurking scum. Either way, he needs to speak up.

Vote: Mr_Gnome_It_All

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since I'm used to boards with very strict rules regarding spam, if I have nothing to say, I just don't speak!

Well, get over that now, because you will be lynched. If all of us took your approach the game would get nowhere. If you're not getting involved with the game, you are either lurking scum, or just no help to the town (and the fun of the game for that matter). Vote stays.

(And don't forget to log in folks. That's the second time we've lost the thread. Hopefully it will be fixed on the new boards, but for now, make sure you log in before posting.)

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Unvote: Mr_Gnome_It_All

Still want you to join in, but I think we have a better candidate for now.

Vote: Flying Dutchman

Reasons:

1.

Eager to lynch

. He votes with little reasoning. With only four to lynch, you better have more than one sentence.

2.

Crap logic

. What little reasoning he has is pretty much Crap Logic -- meaning, no real substance or evidence given to support his vote.

3.

Defending another player

. After the

joke

vote between him and Vraak X, he has come to his defense a few times. In a game where there are no special roles (e.g. Masons), none of us should feel strongly enough about other players to defend someone so openly. Granted, Vraak claimed cop, but we still don't have much reason to believe him if the real cop is playing smart, and he especially shouldn't believe Vraak enough to aide him in defending himself.

Number 3 could mean one of two things. Vraak X is mafia with him.

Or

, Flying Dutchman is defending him

knowing

he's cop so when Vraak X dies he can use his defending of Vraak as defense for himself. How would he know he's a cop, you might ask? Because if Flying Dutchman was mafia without Vraak, then he'd know Vraak would be townie which means he'd have no reason to lie. Either way, it points to Flying Dutchman being scum.

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Wow, no one has even posted in agreement with me. You could at least wait a bit to see what others think. They wouldn't just throw votes on, mine was enough to get your attention (obviously). But it's possible they could think I was just loony.

Oh well. Sadly, your closing remarks do not really do much to help since my main issue is your trust in Vraak. Also, you don't have any logic to back up your "scummy" claims -- explain yourself, post examples, anything!

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Yet, you believe Vraak X. Granted, I think it is better to keep him alive, but I do not trust him until he gives me reason to.

This isn't a game of roleclaims, but of trust. You have to show that you are working for the better of the town, cop or doc or whatever you claim to be, before I will trust whatever claim you give. And the only way to show you are working for the good of the town is to help find suspicious people. Just saying someone is suspicious isn't enough, however. If you believe someone to be suspicious, you have to have some sort of reason.

Vraak X hasn't been much help to the town, hence my reluctance to trust his cop claim. Mr_Gnome_It_All hasn't been

any

help to the town, hence my vote on him earlier. Finally, Flying Dutchman hasn't been much help,

and

has shown several traits that are actually detrimental to the town, hence my vote on him.

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Okay, several things.. first off, I haven't been beneficial to the town because I haven't had an opportunity to. If it were nightfall first and had I the opportune time to investigate, then I wouldn't have made such a joke vote.

Come on. Go back and read my post. That was the purpose of the entire thing, and you missed it.

Second off, what if you did lynch Flying Dutchman, and he did turn out to be innocent? Do we start from square one then? Odds are I'll probably land an innocent investigation (what are the odds of me landing one, 5/7?) .. so yeah.. Back to the accusing table if Dutchman isn't mafia. But if Dutchman is mafia, then .. well, I'll be..

What is your point? What if Mighty Raven is innocent? Why are you defending Flying Dutchman? Sheesh.

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That's only three. What's up with all the drama? Why not try to change our minds? Give reasons why Raven is so scummy, or something... anything! I'm willing to listen to you if you just say

something

.

And Vraak X, why the change of heart? You went from defending Flying Dutchman to voting him without so much as a word. The only way we can be convinced of anyone's pro-townness is if they give reasons for doing things. If everyone just voted and unvoted without saying anything, we wouldn't learn much.

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Why don't you just inspect me tonight if he turns innocent? It would save us both a lot of trouble.

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Besides, what makes you think I'm scum if he turns innocent? I actually gave decent points for voting him. I thought they were pretty reasonable, but if they weren't then that's time for

you

to speak up against them. I really want to hear what you have to say on this matter. Please, tell me why my reasons weren't "feasible".

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Sorry to triple post...

Reading that last one I thought it might come across sarcastic. Just so you know, I'm not being sarcastic. I really do want to hear what you think is wrong with the reasons I posted earlier. We need to discuss this as a town. He's not lynched yet, and if you can give me reasons to look elsewhere, I'd gladly consider it. I'm not sure about Flying Dutchman being scum, but I feel better about it than going for anyone else at this moment.

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I've heard no feasible defense as to whether or not Flying Dutchman is Mafia or not

Ah, I misread that to include me as well. I thought you were just voting him because you gave up.

Gotcha.

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By the way, I wasn't really going after Vraak. I just didn't want everyone to trust him fully.

It's a good thing you did kill me, EnPaceRequiscat. After Flying Dutchman turned up innocent, I knew you had to be one of them. You agreeing with me the whole time definitely had me thinking, but I didn't want to say anything until after Flying Dutchman was taken care of. Obviously, I should've said something before I was killed... D'oh!

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he's the expert that's supposed to teach us.

Heh, I shoulda known we were doomed if I am the expert.

I basically just tried to insite thought and hopefully get everyone posting more. It usually puts me in the front of everyone's mind, which will either get me bandwagonned or killed overnight, but what's the point of playing if I just try to keep quiet? Of course, this is a real problem when I am an important town role like cop or doc.