Newbie 1076: Day Three

[Hoppster]

First off, Nacho, what is this nonsense? Glass, Bump and Olinea all got cool mod-flavor-morph-scenes, silavor gets a 'Hooray!' and I just get "OHYH THIS DUDE IS REPLACING IN".

Working on a research paper right now, I will write you badass flavor later <3
~Nacho

Anyway, I'm the new and improved DBE sans-computer issues. Please note that I no longer have any ovaries.

All quotes in the following wall have been shrunk in font size for your convenience.

Spoiler: Wall addressing recent wagoning/votes

In response to my question of who is town/scum he said that he thinks that otolia is scum, but did not give any town reads or lay down a vote on otolia. Not exactly the response I would expect from someone who would have a guaranteed inno/guilty (Unless of course there is a roleblocker and he was roleblocked, but then there is a doc and scum know he is the cop anyways, so outing him is not a huge deal).

Also, kage logged in in the middle of the night without posting anything and was in no other games. The reason I did not point this out early is pretty obv, I thought that he might be cop. What is also interesting is that about half an hour after my first post of the day, kage logged in once again and posted nothing. Him trying to hide that he was online during the night perhaps?

So ya, kage is teh scum. I may go rooting through his day 1 posts now to find what other scumminess I can find.
Until then
VOTE: Kagetora

Umm, what?

How do scum know who is cop?

Olinea's right - checking the site is not a scumtell. "OHYH BUT IT'S NIGHT AND HE HAD NO OTHER GAMES" - no. Did you check everybody else? Did nobody apart from Kage visit the site at night? I guess you must have, othewise it'd be completely unreasonable for you to vote for Kage on that basis alone when you haven't even checked anybody else. And if you have, you must have caught his scumbuddy. Plztell us.

...Wow. I never thought of the Kage-Cop possibility at all. >.>

I'm liking Glass's latest post. If anything, it further adds to my suspicions of Kage. I assumed he was sticking to his meta of "NO LYNCH D1 GOGOGO", but if you think he's Cop then it really makes sense. Then he comes back with no report.

Does that count as a softclaim, that post Glass paraphrased? It really makes sense and it appears like he just decided to not use the softclaim or simply forgot about it. I'm confused as to why it took Glass to here to post this, but anyway.

This concretes my suspicions of Kage and warrants a vote. He's done basically nothing to help to- Okay, he's done nothing to help town but stick by his decisions and refuse to post a single read from D1. He's not helping town because he's not town.

VOTE: Kagetora

And WTF is Bump smoking here. He speculates on Kage-Cop, says "YAH KAGECOP MAKES SENSE" then votes him.

sorry guys my PC has died a grizzly death and recovery discs are inthe mail. Until they get here (by the 6th at the latest) I will be slightly V/LA.

Question: If you're always busy or unavailable, why don't you just get a replacement and join another game later? It's not like you're attached to this one.

<snip>

VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

Not a pressure vote. Reasoning is in the first reply in this post, and the fact that she would want chk dead the most, which is major WIFOM, but it's all the better if you can kill your enemy and say that you wouldn't be that obvious.

Why is this voteworthy from Darla? WIFOM is just WIFOM, and activity is activity. Seems like a way to avoid taking a stance on Kagetora imo and divert attention.

During day 1 he failed to scumhunt at all under a false pretense of believing that the no lynch was a better move.

... false pretence? HE GENUINELY BELIEVES IT, IT'S IN HIS TOWN GAME(s). Whether he's right or wrong is irrelevant; it's been proven that is what he believes. I'll admit the lack of scumhunting is incriminating, but anything at all regarding him voting No Lynch is to be regarded as completely null. f Kage's meta is voting No lynch, he's going to do it in all games, REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT. It's a null tell.

I am still unsure about him. I'd rather lynch DBE today for bailing out on us that lowly ...

VOTE: DBE

Wuuut is this I don't even...

You're voting me based on DBE replacing out, yet who was wanting to replace out? You. Who else did replace out? Kage, aka silavor, at L-1. Weak reasoning for puting silavor's counter-wagon to L-1, link noticed.

Vote:DBE

When the universe decides to slam you with enough crap to open up your own mushroom farm, you don't stay in a mafia game unless you have some sort of investment or attachment to it. There is

no

reason for a vanilla town DBE to V/LA for basically all of day one and two, as there is nothing holding her to this game. She had no real reads, no one had any real beneficial reads on her, it was basically like she hadn't been in the game at all. Town-DBE should have replaced out weeks ago. Scum-DBE, however, can use the V/LA to her advantage

silavor's vote on DBE (me) is so incredi-opportunistic it's unbelievable. His reason for voting is "LOL V/LA IS OBVIOUS SCUM-TELL." Well, sorry to shatter your illusions, but it's not. It only takes a cursory glance through Darla's posting history to see she was V/LA in all games. silavor's lazy scum vote is very lazy and very, very scummy.

Mega FoS: Otolia, silavor

FoS: Glass, MrBump, DarkFlashlight

Justify your wagoning and why you felt your votes were reasonable, plzkthx.

I'm aware that's everybody apart from Olinea, which is very concerning, but not my fault if y'all make very scummy votes. >>

I'll be going through some ISOs and casting a vote after responses.

With almost two weeks until deadline, we've still got plenty of time to start a new wagon.

It'd be great if people on the top two wagons unvoted as well, as with the horrible votes we're getting thrown around I fear a godawful hammer.

[Hoppster]

It was based on her non-activity, her global active lurking and the reasoning that it is ALWAYS more interesting for scums to lurk around than to ask for replacement. Plus the fact that nacho didn't replaced her ASAP is a scumtell because it is always a problem to get scums replaced as the replacement allows a more or less a cleaning slate to the new player.

Implying of course that she was scum in every single game. Yep, that logic looks like a pretty rock-solid argument. Of course, the notion she was actually V/LA is just a dastardly scum plot to lurk through the game; curse those cunning scums and their cunning cunnning plans.

And you're basing more proof on the fact that a replacement wasn't achieved immediately. Yes, that makes sense. Because Nacho advertised for "NEED SOMBDY TO REPLACE INTO SCUMZ SLOT PLZ!!111!". Mmhm. Yeah, I definitely remember that happening.

Even if time taken for replacement IS relevant to the alignment (and it totally isn't, just FYI), then you're still being illogical. It took very marginally less time for DBE to be replaced than Kage, so using your amazing logic silavor is scum.

Your vote == your choice, only scums don't assume their votes because they know their votes will be scrutinized when they'll be lynched.

I have no idea what you mean here. Explain/clarify what you mean and how it means I am scum, thanks.


Regarding discussion on "SCUMZ TOTEZ MOAR LIEKLY TO REPLACE OUT", I really don't think it makes a difference, and speculation on it is a waste of time, a waste of effort, and diverting from scumhunting.

If you must have an answer, town will almost certainly be more likely to replace out because THERE ARE MORE OF THEM. Town usually outnumber scum by a ratio of around 3:1 if not 4:1 from what I know, so unless scum are over 3x more likely to replace out than town, it's town.


Otolia: do you think silavor's vote is scummy?

[Hoppster]

EBWOP: Thanks, Nacho!

[Hoppster]

Spoiler: RESPONSE WALL

Darla IS being replaced.

Also, I don't like talk of other games. It ruins the ambiance, you know?

Hoppster replaces DarlaBlueEyes.

Show me where he says he's looking for a Darla replacement before that. That's what I made my conclusion on. If it was wrong, I apologise, but it doesn't make a difference AS YOUR INITIAL ARGUMENT IS NONSENSICAL ANYWAY.

She post her last post in another game, why not in this one ? I am legitimately doubting her (and thus your) alignment. Now moving one your despicable post :

Okay, there's no way I can convince you without risking [REDACTED], so I'm just going to ask everybody to LOOK THROUGH DBE'S RECENT POST HISTORY and judge for themselves. It's pretty clear she's been V/LA - on the one game she has posted 'content' (WHICH BTW WAS

ONE

POST), read on and see the result.

Implying of course that she was scum in every single game. Yep, that logic looks like a pretty rock-solid argument. Of course, the notion she was actually V/LA is just a dastardly scum plot to lurk through the game; curse those cunning scums and their cunning cunnning plans.

I am scumhunting, so I look fro scum. I try to find reasons for their behavior even if it doesn't please you.

Curse those stupid townies and their stupid reasoning

.

Here's a reason for her behaviour:

SHE WAS V/LA

.

Also, well dodged. You completely ignored the logical fallacy I addressed which would mean she was scum in all her games.

And you're basing more proof on the fact that a replacement wasn't achieved immediately. Yes, that makes sense. Because Nacho advertised for "NEED SOMBDY TO REPLACE INTO SCUMZ SLOT PLZ!!111!". Mmhm. Yeah, I definitely remember that happening.
Even if time taken for replacement IS relevant to the alignment (and it totally isn't, just FYI), then you're still being illogical. It took very marginally less time for DBE to be replaced than Kage, so using your amazing logic silavor is scum.

LOL ! Click that small link called "Activity overview" You will see that the last activity of DBE is 6 days ago whereas the last activity of Kagetora was 4 days 14 hours (as for now) And Kagetora was replaced way before DBE ... So you are LYING ! And that my dear friend is terribad. You are not truthful so even if I am wrong about that point, it proves that you don't hesitate to use lies to defend yourself, which to be fair with you is fairly scummy.

Curse those stupid townies and their stupid reasoning

.

See top of this post. You're also saying "LOL IF I'M WRONG IT'S OKAY BUT IF YOU ARE YOU'RE A LIAR". Which is just stupid. If you'd ISO'd Nacho this game (which it would make sense to do if you're lecturing me on research) you'd see that DBE is prodded AFTER Kage is replaced.

Also, well dodged. You completely ignored the fact that time taken for a replacement has no bearing on the slot and instead answered the point addressing humouring you that it was relevant - when it's not.

Regarding discussion on "SCUMZ TOTEZ MOAR LIEKLY TO REPLACE OUT", I really don't think it makes a difference, and speculation on it is a waste of time, a waste of effort, and diverting from scumhunting.

A nice attempt to buy town credit. I should learn from the master that you are.

Curse those stupid townies and their stupid reasoning

.

Being logical = attempting to gain town cred?

Or is it that you're painting me as scummy because I'm picking flaws in your arguments?

If you must have an answer, town will almost certainly be more likely to replace out because THERE ARE MORE OF THEM. Town usually outnumber scum by a ratio of around 3:1 if not 4:1 from what I know, so unless scum are over 3x more likely to replace out than town, it's town.

That is a fallacy, I am not asking you probabilities (I can still count).

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to everybody.

If you do a little research, you will see that Nacho did post in the newbie queue for replacement. Thus nothing proves me that he didn't prepare the replacement way before I asked him to replace DBE or that he didn't want to replace her for various reasons. Nacho did a lot of replacement in this game, and he knows that it kinda break a newbie game.

Uh huh. I did research. So link please or it didn't happen, and you're a liar.

Otolia: do you think silavor's vote is scummy?

It is suspicious

What were silavor's reasons for voting DBE again? Oh yeah, V/LA.
What were Otolia's reasons for voting DBE? Replacing out + V/LA, largely similar. Huh.

Just so it's crystal-clear, I DO NOT THINK THAT V/LA, WHETHER A PLAYER HAS BEEN REPLACED OR NOT, OR HOW LONG A REPLACEMENT TAKES TO GET, HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE PLAYER'S ROLE.

tl;dr

Otolia hasn't addressed the main issues, which were:

• Being on V/LA is not scummy.
  
• Replacement time has no bearing on alignment.

In addition:

• He finds silavor's vote suspicious despite voting for largely similar reasons
  
• Don't forget he claimed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Otolia

I'll be going through his ISO now.

[Hoppster]

HAI BUMP.

Why is nobody posting?!

Otolia, I'm too lazy to go through your ISO right now, and it's incredibly discouring that NOBODY APART FROM YOU AND BUMP ARE RESPONDING TO MEEEEEEEE.

But what I can say here, it that your main target was Silavor BUT you didn't hammer him. Why are you afraid of something ? Or are you just FoS him so that you can bus him afterwards. If you and him were to be the two scums, that would be quite a good play. He did start a new wagon while DBE was V/LA so ...

Nooo I didn't. It's you

and

Silavor. You atm, since I am yet to hear from Silavor and your continued insistence that V/LA is a scumtell and replacement time has a bearing on alignment.

OMG IT'S HOPPSTER <3

And WTF is Bump smoking here. He speculates on Kage-Cop, says "YAH KAGECOP MAKES SENSE" then votes him.

No, if you read the rest of the game, I call Kage scummy since D1.

HI BUMP! It's good to know you noticed I'm amazing.

It doesn't matter if you called him scummy since D1. How can you go "YES, HIM BEING A COP MAKES SENSE" and then vote?! You're also dodging my point.


WRT the rest of your post - I have to take some of the blame for starting the sarcasm, and I am naturally a bit of a jerk anyway. But, eh. I'm pretty sure being a jerk isn't a scumtell.



OKAY I AM ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH OTOLIA'S ISO NOW FOR REALS

I EXPECT YOUR VOTE TO BE ON OTOLIA AFTER I FINISH MRBUMP

[Hoppster]

So, going through Otolia's ISO, it's not chock full of scummy posts as I'd hoped, which is slightly discouraging.

However, if you go through his posts, there is very little initiative taken with regards to scum-hunting.

The only actual scum-hunting I can find are here and here - and the first is of course GreyICE's PM to Otolia. (Here to an extent.)


Preview Edit: ... And we're back up to L-1. (YES THIS POST TOOK ME AGES TO WRITE, I GET DISTRACTED EASILY.)

UNVOTE:

I WANT TO HEAR FROM TEH OTHER PPZ B4 HAMMAH PLZ.


@ Olinea: Grey's smart. I don't see how it's not feasible he sent Olinea a fake PM to explain his town 'reads'.

I also think the chk NK is completely null. It's very common for the IC to be NK'd in a Newbie from what I gather regardless of who scum is (obviously not the IC though...), and it'd be more noteworthy to look at the suspicions of the person who got NK'd if they WEREN'T the IC.

[Hoppster]

How do scum know who is cop?

If kage was the cop and doesn't have a report he was roleblocked. Hence they know who cop is, or at least think that kage is likely enough cop that he needs to be blocked.

>>

So basically, you're saying they don't. They have a suspicion of cop, they don't

know

who. They have no way of knowing whether they roleblocked correctly...

And if you have, you must have caught his scumbuddy. Plztell us.

Uh-huh. Way to go taking this quote out of context. You could have taken it slightly out of context more by adding a completely random JFK quote above, but this is still pretty good.

B+

... false pretence? HE GENUINELY BELIEVES IT, IT'S IN HIS TOWN GAME(s). Whether he's right or wrong is irrelevant; it's been proven that is what he believes.

lulz. This quote takes your point and smashes it into oblivion.

About 2/3 of the way through yesterday I became convinced that NLing (in THIS setup) is a bad idea and at that point was sticking to my meta. I was inclined to vote Sakako (as I felt most strongly that they were scum) but again, my meta.

Unless you want to try and say kage was lying there...?

Okay, I'm wrong in that he didn't always genuinely believe it, however, I still believe that it is a null. It's pro-town to not appear scummy when you're not scum, and with the meta having been a huge point for him up to that point, if he were town, consciously going against his town meta and contradicting himself could be seen as anti-town. Whether it's not is irrelevant; there's town motivation for what he did.

Why is nobody posting?!

Some of us have school.

Sorrrry. I'm in the UK AND 'TIS HOLIDAYS WOOP WOOP

However, if you go through his posts, there is very little initiative taken with regards to scum-hunting.

Yep, completely unlike kage.

I'm assuming this is sarcasm, and I don't see your point quite frankly. I've said that I find Silavor scummy but Otolia shot ahead with the whole V/LA-Replacement-scumtell thing.

The hopp-oto exchange has been rather fruitless.

Fruitless?

So you got no nice reads on me from it?

[Hoppster]

VT. Otolia next.

[Hoppster]

Umm.

I'm afraid I'm not seeing how Glass is obvtown.

We had 12 days until deadline. I had specifically requested that I wanted to hear back from the others (in this case just DarkFlashlight remaining) regarding votes before the hammer. In fact, here's what I said:

I WANT TO HEAR FROM TEH OTHER PPZ B4 HAMMAH PLZ.

Why were you in such a rush to push the silavor lynch through, Glass?

The wagon hopping by Bump and Otolia were also absolutely dreadful. Otolia, why did you hammer somebody you thought was town with 12 days to go? Bump, what was wrong with the Otolia wagon?


Otolia: I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean a popcorn-style analysis?

[Hoppster]

@ Glass: ... But you couldn't wait a few days?

This game makes me wanna kill puppies ... There was nothing wrong with my wagon except it was an opportunistic one, isn't it Hoppster ? I know I have an erratic play but that doesn't mean I am scum, does it ?

Why are you so mortally offended at the merest mention of your wagon? Also, I didn't mention your erratic play... Paranoid much? And why are you answering for MrBump?

You also haven't answered the question of why you hammered silavor.

[Hoppster]

I am very amused about how you attacked me for lynching so far before deadline when it was bump who was asking for a hammer for a while and changed his vote to silavor to get the lynch to occur.

The wagon hopping by Bump and Otolia were also absolutely dreadful. Otolia, why did you hammer somebody you thought was town with 12 days to go? Bump, what was wrong with the Otolia wagon??

Misrepping in lylo isn't cool.

@Hoppster

Are you going to sit on the fence all day or are you going to say who you think scum is?

2 of {Glass, Otolia, MrBump}. That should be pretty obvious if you're reading what I'm posting. I'm leaning towards {Otolia} + {Glass/MrBump} atm though, which would probably mean {Otolia} + {MrBump} by process of elimination, as you've been having some very odd interactions with Otolia for a scumbuddy.


@ Otolia:

You also haven't answered the question of why you hammered silavor.

[Hoppster]

@ Glass: Why did you only ask Olinea why he hasn't voted and not Otolia?

Funny Otolia's fact, we are 3 to think that a Mr. Bump/Hoppster scumteam is the most likely. And those two are on me.

Remember Oli that we (Glass, you and me) seemed to have the same scumteam. I don't think that is a coincidence.

[Hoppster]

...wtf? Those quotes have nothing to do with anything hoppster.

I didn't ask oto because he didn't indicate that he thought that me and oli were town?

It's a pretty obvious implication. >>

"LOOK HERE I THINK THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE SCUM!"
"HEY, HEY, I THINK THESE TWO PEOPLE ARE THE SCUMTEAM!"

Obvious implication being everybody else is town. Not to mention how he is buddying with the other two people (with a less obvious implication of them likely being town-reads).


If you're not allowing obvious implications, then in your quote of Olinea he didn't explicitly say he thought Otolia was town.

Repeatedly harking on about a pair you think to be the scum-team is not significantly further from an "I'VE FIGURED THE GAME OUT!" attitude than "Oh, I'm probably not going to vote this dude and this other guy is town".

[Hoppster]

Just a quick post which I may elaborate on tomorrow morning if I have time:

I would like everybody to say who they would have killed each night so far if they were scum, and why.

Don't take into account a scumbuddy: assume all other players are town.

Your N1 kill can only be from people alive at the end of D1, N2 from people alive at the end of D2, etc.

[Hoppster]

Fuck it. I don't see myself changing on Hoppster today.

Vote: Hoppster

Oh god.

Unvote, give me 12-24 hours so I can post some detailed thoughts please.

I've been busy recently - you can check my sitewide posting history if you doubt this.


My thoughts in brief:

• Otolia and Olinea are not the scum-team with Otolia making no vote on me just now.
  
• Otolia and Glass are likely not the scum-team.
  
• With recent interactions, I doubt Otolia and MrBump are the scum-team.
• Therefore, confusingly, despite being my strongest scum-read, Otolia is not scum because he doesn't make sense as anybody's partner.

I'll post regarding Glass/Olinea/Bump tomorrow.


With the "WHO WOULD YOU KILL IF YOU WERE SCUM" - it helps. It's difficult for me to explain how, but basically it forces scum to come up with credible explanations for their kills or go for the WIFOM route. Either way, it's difficult for them. Any non-plausible explanations are from scum.

FWIW, I would have killed Olinea last night. Strongest town-read, and I had no paticular PR-vibes off anybody.


I'll have a reread of when Darla was playing to see who I would have killed then.

[Hoppster]

Ok, you realize that scum had probably thought about who they wanted to kill? So they obviously would have reasons for killing multiple people and they could just say any of them and it would probably be satisfactory. How on earth would scum not have any plausible reasons?

>>

Okay, never mind.

Otolia and Olinea are not the scum-team with Otolia making no vote on me just now.

You think that if oto was scum with oli he would have just jumped onto your wagon? Why would he do that?

In hindsight, it's not really an argument against Oto/Oli scum-team but against Oto-scum at all. I was sure that Oto-scum would vote me after cajoling one of {Olinea, Glass} onto my wagon.

The whole buddying "OH WE ALL HAVE THE SAME SUSPICIONS" is a further argument against a scumteam of {Otolia} + {Glass/Olinea}, and then the recent MrBump-Otolia interactions makes them being a scumteam also very, very doubtful. So Otolia is probably not scum based on interactions.

The lack of more votes on me is both encouraging and horribly confusing.

So:

VOTE: Olinea


Olinea/Glass/MrBump, please discuss my vote, specifically the possible scum motivation and town motivation behind it. Thanks.

Otolia, feel free to discuss my vote, it's not as important for me to hear back from you regarding this.

[Hoppster]

Surely it's important if you believe he's town? Town opinions matter a lot.

Are you going to explain your case on Olinea a bit more? I don't think you posted it... at all o.O

No, it's not important I hear from Otolia.

You haven't speculated on town or scum motivation here at all. I'm not happy. It'd be great if you did what I asked.

I'm not going to explain my vote until the three of you have commented on it/made a firm stance.

[Hoppster]

@ Glass: Town Motivation - Does an absence of a quickhammer guarantee that Olinea is scum? (Ie, if Olinea had voted you and you weren't quickhammered, would you have drawn the conclusion that Olinea is beyond all doubt scum?)

Scum Motivation - Why would that be my only option?


@ Bump: Town Motivation - Any idea what would make me think that Olinea is scum?

Scum Motivation - I didn't provide any explicit reasoning for my vote. How is that making Olinea look like scum?


@ Otolia: What? I don't understand what you're saying. I've decided that based on interactions you're very unlikely to be scum.

[Hoppster]

FFFFF.

I don't really have a case on Olinea tbh, because he had been my strongest town-read but is now apparently auto-scum.

Otolia, please unvote. I'll self-hammer/vote at deadline if necessary.

[Hoppster]

I'm going through Olinea's ISO after I post this, so if you don't want us to lose the game (unless you're scum with Olinea?) PLEASE UNVOTE AND WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW OR SOMETHING

[Hoppster]

Why are we even discussing this? Hoppster's trying to make it seem like following the #1 rule of LyLo (vote the guy who's voting you) is somehow Town-motivated.

Olinea

votes

Hoppster

Hoppster has nothing to lose by voting me, since he'd get quickhammered anyways.

Olinea

votes

Hoppster

Without a lack of a quickhammer, the three (or one, in the case of 3p LyLo) undecided voters cannot be carrying both scum. Ergo, one scum is voting Hoppster, so he votes scum.

First off, regarding this, I don't see how everybody thinks that somebody voting for you at lylo with no auto-quickhammer is guaranteed scum. Really, I don't. (Of course, it doesn't mean that people voting early are auto-town, but it's certainly not auto-scum by any means.)

By the same logic of scum always quickhammer, if scum notice town voting town, all an intelligent scum needs to do is go "LOOK I'M NOT VOTING, NOBODY ELSE IS VOTING, SO ONE OF THOSE TWO IS SCUM": a safer and (from what everybody is saying, it would appear to be an) equally effective alternative.

5P lylo is completely different from 3P lylo. There's always a chance your scumbuddy could suffer from random access problems, or the person voting gets sudden doubts and unvotes before the quickhammer, etc.


The reason I voted Olinea was a (in hindsight pathetic) attempt to get some decent reactions. I knew that if Olinea

was

town he wouldn't be quickhammered over myself, so it was a 'risk-free' vote (from my POV at the time).

The Olinea reaction was kinda disappointingly null, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Glass

At this point it's pretty obvious we're almost certainly going to lose, so this is worth a go.

His response to my questions felt like scum setting up two mislynch candidates to me, and goading the two people into attacking each other (a 'win-win' scenario for scum, obv).

He seems fairly convinced I'm scum, yet is waiting for me to produce a case, when by his logic Olinea is auto-scum anyway, so it would just be confirmation bias in all likelihood.

And there's the NK WIFOM - although I haven't had it myself, a lot of people seem to think Glass is super-obv-town. I personally don't, but that aside, why is he still alive?

Normally I wouldn't resort to NK WIFOM, but as I'm going to be lynched anyway we've got nothing to lose.


However, on Olinea:

I'm thinking Hoppster + MrBump. Bump is only by process of elimination since I can't see myself voting for Otolia and Glass is, yeah, pretty damn Town. I think Otolia's erratic play and desire to be lynched stems from a lack of confidence in LyLo situations where he doesn't want to make a bad call and lose the entire game. I have free time after class so I'll re-read and see what I can find.

Olinea hasn't justified my inclusion on the scumpairing at all.

If you also look through Olinea's ISO, he's been iffy on me since I replaced in, saying my posting seemed (relatively) town-motivated yet he hasn't really outright called me scummy in any way, nor provided any real reasoning for his vote.

If Glass confirms himself as town (by not hammering) I'll move back to Olinea, but with my imminent death I feel that I need to do something drastic.

[Hoppster]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Olinea

'Kay. Let's see what I can dig up then.

[Hoppster]

I think Bump's going to be hammering me. Otolia doesn't really make sense being anybody's partner. So, yeah, sucks.

I blame Darla.

(So Bump-Olinea by PoE)

The bit I said about self-hammering, I will only do right at deadline if I'm sure there's going to be no lynch. Slightly better/less shameful to lose by mislynching at lylo rather than losing by having

no lynch at all

at deadline (which would be an absolutely terrible way to lose).

[Hoppster]

So, Bump is town so scum-team is obv Olinea-Otolia. Wow, I really have been failing this game.

So I'm going to:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Otolia

As I suspect that I have more of a case on Otolia, and between now and tomorrow I'll probably have more scum-posts from Olinea to show.

Olinea

• Go to page 2 of his ISO (where I replace in), then Ctrl + F 'Hop'. Should be fairly self-explanatory. He's voting me but has barely posted anything substantial regarding me.
  
• Now, this I find REALLY telling - he makes
  NO
  comment on the Otolia "I CLAIM SCUMZ" post. Granted, he didn't post after the scum-claim for the rest of that day, but even on the next day, it'd seem like something to comment on.

Otolia

• He claimed scum.
  
• He claimed scum.
  
• Makes sense as an Olinea partner - GreyICE was very much for actively bussing/distancing, but after Otolia re-replaces, he keeps an Olinea vote despite not being convinced of the case, which looks like fail-distancing.
  
• Thanks to the magic of confirmation bias, I am now enlightened. Re-read GreyICE's PM to Otolia, from the perspective of Otolia and Olinea being scumbuddies. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE. The "here's the logic:" is obviously the introduction to a post consisting of fake, 'town' logic, coming from scum. The bit about being no fan of Olinea is also reading to me as an actual scum-buddy claim. "MY SCUMBUDDY SUX!", or something to that effect.
  
• Oh yeah, he claimed scum.
  
• Don't forget he claimed town.
  Oh, but he claimed scum as well.

@ Glass (regarding my 'lylo meta'): You've posted most of these already, but just so they're in one post together (all links go to start of lylo):

• Newbie 1030 - I was town. You say I used 100% more smileys - it was my first game here, so I was probably overexcited.
• Newbie 1058 - I was scum.
• Newbie 1074 - I was scum. Yes, I made a similar "OH CRAP I'M BEING VOTED AT LYLO" post, but you'll also notice that has 100% more caps lock and is more, well, 'panicked' I suppose? That was completely feigned, and it didn't happen that long ago tbh, so when it happened again this time, except for real, I was "Umm, well." One of the townies at lylo in N1074 expressed suspicion because he voted somebody and this person DIDN'T protest, so I knew that I'd have to make some protest post (the fact that I could be quickhammered aside), but then I couldn't drum up the adrenaline required for a caps lock OMG NOOOOO post that you get when playing as scum (talking about the adrenaline). Really, I think the two posts are quite different.
('Somehow' won? I happen to be very proud of my cop fake-claim. )
• There Will Be Bloodshed - Scum again. Yeah, I failed in this badly (even though we won), I was pretty much coasting with my awesome scum-team. You probably won't learn a lot from that.

That's 3 scum-games to 1 town-game, so here's an Open game I played as town (NK'd before lylo though) if you want to try and meta me. It probably will be just as bad as my first game though, as IIRC that was the SECOND game I played (pretty sure I contained the smilies more there though).

[Hoppster]

Bump, hello? Olinea-Otolia are the scum. I've even shown the link between them for you with Olinea not commenting on Otolia's scum-claim and Olinea's PM from GreyICE.

And then of course there's them both being on my wagon, another link, I suppose.

You think Otolia is scum, right? Olinea makes perfect sense as an Otolia scumbuddy.


Otolia, I'm yet to see a compelling argument for me being scum.

Oh, wait, of course, Darla was V/LA for so long and replaced out. Silly me, how could I miss something so obvious? ;_;

P.S. Otolia just admitted claiming scum was lynch-worthy. Something lynch-worthy (like

being replaced

a scum-claim

) on Day 1 doesn't stop being lynch-worthy just because the day ended.


Google Translate translates réchauffé as 'warmed' :/

You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.

[Hoppster]

An Olinea lynch is also fine (because he's scum, obv,) but I just appreciate the fact that from your perspective they're not both confirmed scum together. We need to lynch one of them today, and I'm going for Otolia because I suspect that'd be the easiest to get a lynch out of the two of them (with you already expressing suspicion), and then from the Otolia scum-flip the links to Olinea mean an Olinea lynch tomorrow, and I'm not quite so sure that an Olinea scum-flip is as incriminating to Otolia. We can lynch Olinea today and Otolia tomorrow if we have to, though.


Otolia: Why should you have been lynched Day 1 for the scum-claim but not today?

[Hoppster]

Some people are trying way too hard to escape a lynch.

^ Scumslip. Oh dear, Otolia.

Yes, I'm trying to escape a lynch, because if I'm lynched I lose. You obviously don't understand this because you've still got a scumbuddy left and you being lynched doesn't necessarily mean that you lose.

Before Olinea voted, I said that I was going to vote Hoppster if the situation didn't evolve. In that case why would have Olinea take the initiative if he was a scum with me ? Or even if he was scum alone ? It makes no sense at all.

Classic scum tactics. Distancing/grouping your scumbuddy by attacking two or more people people (in this case Olinea and myself - you threatened to vote us), and one of them is your scumbuddy. Makes it more difficult to find your scumbuddy when you flip scum. Case in point proved when you say now that you were going to vote

me

at the time, when you actually said you were going to vote

Olinea OR myself

.

[Hoppster]

I agree, you done messed up. I'd be metaphorically facepalming myself too if I had scumslipped that badly. (Except of course I wouldn't then post it in thread, but whatever floats your boat.)

[Hoppster]

Olinea - What Otolia said were his motivations would only be true if he's town. But he's scum.

I appreciate that you were pushed for time, but you've completely missed the unmasking of you and Otolia as a scum-team, which I would say is

probably almost maybe possibly

the most important thing that's happened.


Otolia - what makes you say you

know

the other scum is in {Glass, MrBump} rather than {Glass, MrBump, Olinea}?

(That's totally not something a townie would think - but is something somebody who is scumbuddies with Olinea might say.)

Yes, I realise you added 'OH BUT IT'S POSSIBLE OLINEA COULD BE BUSSING', but then why say you

KNOW

the other scum is in {Glass, MrBump}?

[Hoppster]

Could you point out which ones you actually want to be answered? There are quite a lot, and I'm not sure which are rhetorical.

[Hoppster]

Some people are trying way too hard to escape a lynch. Their only valid theory is that I am scum with Olinea. But can they prove that ? Before Olinea voted, I said that I was going to vote Hoppster if the situation didn't evolve.

In that case why would have Olinea take the initiative if he was a scum with me ? Or even if he was scum alone ?

It makes no sense at all.

It wasn't very obvious.

I'm assuming you're talking about the situation where you went "I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR HOPPSTER OR OLINEA" and then Olinea went and voted me?

I don't see why that makes it impossible for the two of you to be scum together.

Well, dun think I can, but here's the logic:

What is ice responding to here?

My working theory is that there was a conversation along the lines of:

"HEY, GREYICE, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR FAKE SCUM-LOGIC WAS?"
"OKAY, SURE THING OTOLIA, HERE IT IS: <logic>"

This is a complete misrep of Otolia’s statement. Not once did he ever express intent to vote for me. He’s saying he planned to vote YOU and that it wouldn’t make sense for me to put myself on the line instead of Otolia from an Oli-Oto scumteam standpoint.

TBH, I wasn't

completely

sure what he was talking about there, but if he's talking about what you and I appear to be talking about, that's the point. He didn't say he planned to vote ME, he said he planned to vote YOU OR I.

Actually, all intelligent scum need to do is wait for their buddy to show up at the same time and VOTE: X, VOTE: X. Pretty sure that’s how you win games. Of course, I don’t need to tell you how scum plays in LyLo.

Just FTR, that wasn't planned by shotty and I. I was just fortunate that I happened to be there before anybody else. And this by no means guarantees that lack of a quickhammer means the person voting you was scum. (Okay, in this case it happens to be right, but I refuse to believe there are NO instances of town voting town at 5P+ lylo and then there being no quickhammer.)

I know there is a scum between you

[MrBump]

and Glass

You know the fact that Hoppster voted and not Bump totally back up my idea of the Hopp-Bump scumteam.

So if Olinea don't hammer me, the scumteam is Hoppster-Mr. Bump.

->Hammer Hoppster
->NK ?
->Lynch Olinea
->Town wins

LOLWAT?!

I maybe insulted Hoppster but why should I care about him anyway, he is a lying scum (in every sense of the word)

If I'm scum who

you don't care about,

why are you insulting me?

Try again.

I'm going to have an interesting post-game rant. Somebody please remind me and direct me to this (as in the one you are reading right now) post post-game. (Link included for my reference post-game.)

(PS: Am I the only one seeing only one page when I go through ISO's?)

ME TOO!!1!

I thought I'd accidently flicked to some special setting, but it's a deliberate change by site administration - 200 posts per page. Makes Ctrl + F'ing stuff easier, I suppose.

[Hoppster]

I maybe insulted Hoppster but why should I care about him anyway, he is a lying scum (in every sense of the word)

If I'm scum who

you don't care about,

why are you insulting me?

Because you are [censored] as a person and not as the role you represent.

'Kay. Go look up all the insults you have called me, and then show me where I have insulted you personally.

Uh-huh. Keep trying.

You've also dodged my points completely.

I'm going to have an interesting post-game rant. Somebody please remind me and direct me to this (as in the one you are reading right now) post post-game. (Link included for my reference post-game.)

What for ?

I suspect you know, and you really

should

know. Even if you don't, you will know post-game, be patient.

[Hoppster]

Why can't you rant now?

It would distract from lynching scum (a friendly reminder: It's Otolia and Olinea).

It's also semi-[REDACTED]. Not the whole basis of the rant, but a major part of it. I'm going to have to check with Nacho post-game whether I'd be able to quote something.

[Hoppster]

@Hoppster : I don't know what you suppose I know. I guess you had a smart idea and you feel suddenly like the king of the world. I just said I don't like you. I feel I am still allowed to do that.

I wouldn't say smart. You are allowed to not like me, but I'd rather you cut out the in-game hate insults.

[Hoppster]

It's also semi-[REDACTED]. Not the whole basis of the rant, but a major part of it. I'm going to have to check with Nacho post-game whether I'd be able to quote something.

Just checked with Nacho, and I will be unable to. That's

all

I will say on the matter.

My rant is just not the same without it though, so you're all probably going to be getting a very toned-down rant (more like a polite letter of complaint, now).

[Hoppster]

I did stop, hence the [censored]. So why are you bringing that topic on the table ? What you are doing here is laughable, I am perfectly able to take criticism (whether constructive or not) but you are definitely trying to instrumentalize what I said in order to gain a game advantage. And it is really itching me to smack you down (Is that also insulting ?) for being a coward and saying you will do this and that. Why don't you do it now if you are so concern with it ? Or that's right, Nacho forbid it ... how convenient.

Otherwise you can also PM me (if you are a man - yes, I am taunting you. But that's also insulting because you could be a woman ...) or write in the 62, I'm sure there will be people to back you up there.

Spoiler: All I will say

Deliberately somewhat cryptic:

you're a fucking

hypocrite

on your fucking moral high-horse

.

You probably will not get this if you're not Otolia. This does not refer to the quoted post in any way; yes it is a response, but I'm not talking about hypocrisy/high-horses in

that

paticular post.

There we go. I will not elaborate on this.

MrBump, I would have quoted the aforementioned hypocrisy (see spoiler for rough idea [no actual quote there though]) which I personally think is the worst hypocrisy I have ever seen (morally).



I will probably be lurking this thread now unless Glass/MrBump/possibly Olinea (probably not Otolia) have something for me to answer to, or something new occurs to me. There's not much for me to do tbh, I've already shown how Otolia and Olinea are scum.

[Hoppster]

I shouldn't rage-post. :/

Nacho, I suppose you should proably edit out that penultimate paragraph (starting 'MrBump')?

*sigh*

Glass, what makes you doubt Otolia is scum?


P-Edit: Okay, Otolia, why couldn't you be so reasonable all game? >>

It's fine, Mafia can get quite heated, but I'm just in a foul mood today in particular.

[Hoppster]

Cool.

[Hoppster]

Don't worry. I could screw with your heads but I don't have it in me today. I'm scum.

ONLY KIDDING YOU JUST HAMMERED TOWN BLARGH RAGH

[Hoppster]

Hi 5 Olinea!

/hi fives Olinea

[Hoppster]

I thought my interactions with Olinea made it obvious we were scum together.



Obviously I was wrong.

[Hoppster]

Mega FoS: Otolia, silavor

FoS: Glass, MrBump, DarkFlashlight

You have no idea how hard I RAEGed at my laptop when you posted this, btw

Yeah, well, if you'd stuck to the plan we could have won yesterday.

[Hoppster]

QT Coming in a sec, please be patient. Just editing some posts.

[Hoppster]

Scum QT

Worst Scum QT ever, but eh.

[Hoppster]

Now now, I'm sure MrBump has a perfectly nice face.

SO LET'S RUB HIS NOSE IN THE LOSS WOOO SCUM WIN WOOO

[Hoppster]

Maybe it really did unfortunately coincide with REAL problems.

[Hoppster]

Awesome game, disappointed we lost though.

See, all you had to do was point out my obvious connections to Olinea and you might have won.

[Hoppster]

Point is Olinea scumhunted with almost more success than Mr. Bump. Argh. I could have delayed my vote but I wasn't sure it was for the best so ...

Don't worry, it's completely MrBump's fault. The loss is all MrBump's fault. I'm sure we all can agree on that.

(SERIOUSLY THOUGH, MRBUMP. YOUR FAULT.)

[Hoppster]

Real scum QT

Amazed you bought the "I'm gonna pretend to be V/LA" from fake Darla, chk. :p

I was joking with the YOUR FAULT bit, Bump. Although I was a bit miffed you didn't go down the interactions route when I'd linked myself to Olinea so well. ;D

Ninja'd. Damn phone.

[Hoppster]

Probably wrong of me to suggest a Darkie NK in hindsight.

I think he actually flaked, as well.

[Hoppster]

NACHO. WHERE BE THE FLAVOR?