Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[Stels]

Spoiler: Morthas <3

Sup, scum.

Fuck you.

Hello, I am BKWM's Replacement.

Spoiler: RQS

Anyway guys, let's start of with some RQS:
1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?

Town, Neighborizer. I've had this role before.

2) Would you lynch lurkers?

No

3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?

Both

4) What is your stance on using meta?

I don't dislike meta. 50/50 or depends on the situation.

5) What's your timezone?

Current: GMT +8

6) What is your posting style: A few lengthy posts or a lot of small posts?

Depends

7) How much do you expect to post in this game?

Depends

Annoying RQS out of the way.

The only person that stands out is theamatuer.

BWKM hasn't logged on since thursday, so it's probably OK?, he's not lurking or anything.
I'll answer everyones suspicions in the meantime.
To CS: I know what you mean now, and I perfectly understand. I'll just ask everyone to not lynch anybody until we've got a really good reason and listened to their defenses, and warning them beforehand before hammering, just to listen to what they'll say. That should give us really good information to consider if we do lynch town by accident.

Defending BKWM despite theamatuer wanting him at L-2 so he can hear more from him. Why defend him? He was basically untouched IIRC. Your defense was very unnecessary. Buddying up early on.
Unnecessary sarcasm and early intention of not voting anyone. Proceeding with a self-vote to boot. Very untown-like behavior.

Well, I'd say the question would be if you want me to unvote myself or not. I voted myself just because I am helping everyone getting defenses at this point, and not just bandwagoning/lurking. This seemed to me as the best idea at the time, although looking back, this isn't being very effective to say the least, since I'm not feeling much pressure.
To CS: I ask you what scum purpose there is to that? The goal of scum is to survive lynching, and to be honest, the self vote did nothing but draw attention to myself, which if I were scum, would be the last thing I want. (and to be honest, I had almost no suspicion on me to begin with).

Voting yourself gives the opposite effect. It in no way helps others to defend themselves, but attracts attention to yourself, just like all your posts so far have to me. Scum don't always require both of them to live, in order to win a game. Hence there are 2 scum/newbie game.
UNVOTE: BKWM's previous vote
VOTE: theamatuer

[Stels]

@Everyone: Forgot to look at the vote count =_=

theamatuer is at L-1

[Stels]

@Everyone: Sorry, miscounted the votes on theamatuer. Disregarded his self-unvote. L-2.

Dude, I wanted people to stop argueing about him/you was because that arguing earlier can lead to an early lynch. The only reason I brought him to L-2 was to listen to what he/you was going to say. You can't say anything if you were lynched before you logged on right?
And besides, attracting attention to myself is a truth to what you say, but if you assume that I am scum, then making myself L-2 would be useless. A suicidal Scum would vote himself at L-2 or L-1, since a L-1 can cause an accidental lynch, but being at L-2 simply gives pressure, and although there is the threat of a lynch, the actual lynch from there will still take a lot of time, and therefore would deviate from a Suicidal Scum's base purpose of quickening a day. Although an SS's other purpose is to make as few links as possible to the other scum, the entire game will be extended after the scum's death by at least a day, assuming that the 2nd scum evades lynch for that long. This gives the scum more chance to slip up.


Also, Soulblades actions are far too suspicious.

You said we have been bashing BKWM for too long already. However, our original purpose was to pry his defenses out of him from an L-2. After we did this, BWKM refused to answer at all, and to prevent people from either losing interest and unvoting him or getting too angry in his absence and lynching him, I temporalily drew off attention to me. however, once BKWM got a replacement, you immeadiately unvoted without even hearing a defense. I ask

why?

Unless you give me a perfectly good reason, I'm not going to let this go easily.

unvote: paradox

vote: stels

to reset the L-2 status.

Major FOS: Soulblade

And so, nobody cared about the lurker anymore

I love your reasoning so much, it makes me want to puke. That whole paragraph stinks of WIFOM. 'Scum wouldn't do this'. You don't even know that. I can think of a good number of reasons why scum would act suicidal. Your self-vote, is no exception.
So L-2 for you is listening to what a person has to say? So I should take it, it doesn't mean that you want that person lynched/are prepared to lynch them. You just contradict yourself there. You've done this not only to BKWM, but to Conspiracy as well.
Now you do the same thing again, you notify me that you are voting me just to put me to L-2. You saying that, again, defeats the whole purpose of you voting.
Don't just "U L-2 NAO TALK" everyone. Why lightning-rod all the attention to yourself if your original purpose was extorting information out of BKWM. You wanted to hear from BKWM. I'm not him, I'm an entirely different entity. Deal with it. Want to abuse your voting power against someone, build a case.
Plus, what do you mean by "And so, nobody cared about the lurker anymore"?

No because stels was at l-3 already, so its easier. And if stels is scum, then SoulBlade is 99%scum. Conversely, if stels is scum, SoulBlade has a lowever precentage.

So basically, you just take advantage of built up wagons instead of following your own reasoning and suspicions? Talk about scummy.

[Stels]

K then.

unvote
vote: Soulblade

To stels: Give me every single reason a suicidal mafia is a good mafia and I'll give you a reason why it doesn't work in this time and on me. Just try it.
And it isn't scum shouldn't do this. It is if scum does this, then he is a stupid scum.
U NOT L-2 NAO TALK

Woah, now you're twisting my words. I never said that suiciding is always a good thing, but I can think of some.
1. Suicidal mafia play this way as to get people to think that mafia would NEVER play this way, AKA appear town.
PEDIT: Morthas beat me to it for this point...
2. Apparently, since you have a majority going against you, as previously said, you might try to stop the information flow by nearing your own lynch. Then again, you stopped this idiotic facade and unvoted yourself.

I'm not inclined to give you every SINGLE reason, but I just countered your WIFOM with my own WIFOM.
Your suicidal tendency isn't the point here. It's your vote placement, pattern, and reasoning that gets you the pinging on my scumdar.
If you want further use of suicidal tendencies that can prove my 1st point, then let me know.

Since when does having genuine intentions, mean being right? He's a newbie, and hes just misinformed. How is he supposed to know that "self voting is about as far from pro-town as one can get"? You're clearing going for an easy lynch.

There's a definitive difference in when you talk about the game theory, to when you are speaking about this game. Pretty much all of your post's are fluff, or tunneling on Theamateur, how is that pro-town, exactly? (the game mechanic stuff is tho)

Self-Voting post addressed specifically towards theamatuer
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3294677
Read the spoiler.

Soulblade's ISO is pretty empty... The only thing I see from him is parroting...T_T
Ghostlin is a "Helpful and analyzing poster"? So far the only thing I read in his ISO has been "theamatuer self-vote = scum claim. I vote him now." I don't think that's very analytic from my perspective.
Ghostlin's ISO is half filled with early game mechanic fluff, pressure on AeRyung to vote BKWM because a FOS doesn't suffice, this ^^, and him defending his posts' purity.

@theamatuer: Your latest post is just dumb... Extremist? What?
ex·trem·ist   [ik-stree-mist]
noun
1. a person who goes to extremes, especially in political matters.
2. a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices.

ex·treme   [ik-streem]
adjective
1. of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average: extreme measures.
2. utmost or exceedingly great in degree: extreme joy.
3. farthest from the center or middle; outermost; endmost: the extreme limits of a town.
4. farthest, utmost, or very far in any direction: an object at the extreme point of vision.
5. exceeding the bounds of moderation: extreme fashions.

I just fail to see how Ghostlin is what you say he is... an Extremist...

[Stels]

Stels: Your last post was about how you didn't like my ISO and the fact that I've ridden TM for self-voting (that's not all I've accused him of by any means), yet your vote is there. Do you think TM is more or less likely to be scum than me, and why?

Your initial vote was based off of him and his self-preservation D1 based upon RQS... Not uncommon to see that during any D1 Newbie game... Hardly call that a reason, for now. The fact that he has played as town roles before, actually brings something to this discussion. But for now, I don't consider that to be a reason for a vote, therefore it falls off.

@:theamatuer: How many mafia games have you exactly played? (IRL, Other Forums, Here).

Connections that don't make sense, ok.
Self-voting and the obvious L-2 are all that remains.
So you have my reasons going for you, I just skimmed your ISO briefly to see what all the fuss was about. I didn't read it in depth, and found that post where you did elaborate why you voted for him ^^
I'm still voting him, aren't I? Why are you so concerned about your standing in my POV? I have more of a case going for him than you ATM. You're still scummy in my perspective.

@Stels: When you replaced BKWM, how did you feel about the accusation towards him?

I really didn't care. I didn't even bother reading the whole game in-depth, especially the accusations against BKWM. I'm not him.

From the looks of it, there are 3 outcomes to get a lynch, since Paradox does not vote and will likely never vote:
1. Me and SoulBlade both vote the same person. Unlikely, since SB will most likely vote me,and I refuse to hammer myself.
2.One of the wagons disbands to lynch the other wagon
3.Both wagons disband to lynch a third person. (most likely soulblade or paradox.)

Are you trying to lead town, especially in your current position? Why are you putting emphasis onto you not self-hammering? You're not sure of yourself here, and you are avert attention from yourself somewhere else.

if SoulBlade is likely-scum, then shouldn't we lynch him instead?

As proven in this ^^

[Stels]

Computer Restarts suck when posting... So I'll shorten my posts a bit... Such a pain.

To aeryung: two games in total
first game: got subbed in at page 37, game ended at page 39.
second game: got lynched on day 1 at page 9 while I was asleep.
BTW: I self-voted since I promised I would if it came to an L-2 here. and I don't like breaking promises. However, self-hammering is a different story

Digging your own grave here...

@Ghostlin: 2 Pages Endgame and early PG 9 D1 lynch brushes off your first point against theamatuer.
@CS: 3rd quote in your content from Ghostlin isn't exactly content. More like "Who's scum in your opinion" and a very general question that I see in every game. Usually asked when you have nowhere to go with your own vote or want a backup by seeing who is the most popular suspect for other people. (#197)

Possible scumpartners:
theamatuer-hiplop.
Ghostlin-SB.
SB-stels
ta-morthas
NOTE: these are placed considering the possibilty of the first being scum if the other is known scum.
Also. How did I get the Goon title?

OK, analysis time:
Character Analysis (Scummy level from 1-10. 1 least 10 most)
Aeryung:pulls the noob card out, both directly and indirectly. Usually after being attacked. Possible mistake. 4
ConSpiracy:Tunneller of thematuer. 7
Ghostlin:2nd ta tunneller. posts little content in general for an IC. 8
hiplop:Apparently helpful. Mostly attacks Ghostlin and ConSpiracy. possible scumpartener with ta. 3
Johog: To early to be sure. 5 for Null
Morthas: can't tell. More suspicious than not though. 6
Soulblade: Didn't post since mistake. Very possible scum. 9
stels: Mostly counterarguments against ta. null. 5
thamatuer: Self-voting. Very Defensive in the beginning. jumps on bandwagon's in the middle. Self-vote. Becomes offensive towards SB. Probable scum. 7
This is being as objective as possible.

You're really making me cry tears of blood here. It was already stated before that making connections at this stage of the game is just a plain waste of time. You're enforcing one of the points Ghostlin made about you about making silly connections. The fact that people who are tunneling you are the highest on your scum-list already means something. Except me? I'm also tunneling you, why am I not at least on the same level as CS at least?

Spoiler: @Goon Title (theamatuer)

You already have it... You get the Goon title by getting at least 50 posts in game threads, 100/150 for Mafia Scum title. Can't remember.

Me and CS can take care of you guys anyway; do not need a scum IC telling you what to do!!! I don't have much else to say, so im jokingly putting my point across

Do I not count? :'(

@stels: I do understand that you are not BKWM but that doesn't justify any of the accusations against him. Your aggressive manner towards theamatuer because of his accusations seemed like a OMGUS more than anything(aside from the obvious scum tells). I believe if you knew that BKWM was innocent, you would have done a little more regarding the matter instead of just forcing a clean slate onto others, because in all honesty, that would absolutely be helpful for town.

I haven't said anything about his position against BKWM. Despite him defending his own "suspect" which is the obvious thing to do.
If I knew that BKWM was innocent..? Please don't make me say it... Please...
How would it help town? Defending a person that isn't here is just pointless. I can't read minds, I can't speak for someone else.

@Mod: VC please? Also possible prod on Ghostlin if he doesn't post today (Friday).

[Stels]

You attacked me because I attacked you first, so it's mostly a OMGUS attack.
ConSpiracy is a plain tunneler. Although I may be a little biased, I'll move him to 6 then

Refer to your delusions however you wish. In my book, your concerns were with BKWM, not Stels.

@CS: #239, 2nd quote... Think he was referring to AeRyung as VI instead of VT. Which is kind of mean...
Or if he wasn't, that was sort of random, just like his entire character thus far.

@Mod: Prod on Morthas. Haven't heard from him in ages, unless he posted recently enough.

[Stels]

Not prod-eligible, only a day since last post. Do you know about activity overview Stels?

Too lazy to click their names and count when was the last time they logged on. Just like I was too lazy to read the game without having to skim through at least 60% of it.

Trying to get some discussion going from those two. Ghostlin's reaction, since he is one of the highlighted individuals at the moment. And Morthas hasn't really done anything. At all. Mostly fluff.

@theamatuer: Feel free to move that number to anything. Just find it funny that people who you consider at the top of your list are the ones that are after your head.

@Mod: It just helps to have a VC every now and then, instead of going back 3-4 pages to find it. Sorry if that offends you in any way, the tone and such.

[Stels]

@hiplop: I am ready to hammer Ghostlin. Hence my impatience with prodding him. He is my 2nd suspect after theamatuer. As much as it pains me to do so, theamatuer will have to wait

;_;

. Won't hammer until everyone has finished their V/LA's and Ghostlin finally gets back or we are close to the deadline, which is in 5 days.

You're assuming that he'd want to. If he didn't, he'd have to roleclaim. How would we prove he isn't if he claims doctor? He might be trying to stay under the radar so not to be nightkilled. At least if he proves cop, we can check it by asking him to investigate, but with Doctor, it isn't like we can tell them to protect somebody.
All in all, chance to turn scum is 60%, townie is 30%, and PR is 10%

If anyone wants, I can unvote to have someone fill my place, then I'll hammer him myself.

I mean, just look at him. WTF.
Why would anyone trust you with a hammer?
Where does he get these stats from? 60% scum, what?

theres an activity overview below the page skip icons. You can see the last time they post and also PM them. It's what the mods use.

Please don't make it seem like I'm an idiot. If I'm too lazy to even bother keeping track of player's activity, what makes you think I wouldn't be lazy to scroll aaaaaaallll the way down to where the page numbers are located and click a button. Besides, not everyone here might view the game while being logged on.

[Stels]

And welcome, DH-Star!

[Stels]

You probably skimmed my post and didn't read the second line. ;_;

[Stels]

@theamatuer: Well, it depends. I'm always up for a theamatuer lynch today over Ghostlin. You still didn't explain your random stats.
Giving you the position of hammering is kind of bad, even if you were to take "responsibility" for hammering. The people that wagon'd all take responsibility, and there is a chance that you might hammer a bit earlier than needed.

You probably skimmed my post and didn't read the second line. ;_;

um..

Yeah I did, my bad lmao. I stopped reading the top part at the ;_;

Good choice of time though

Don't worry about it. Just assumed that after people saw the enlarged ;_; they would look at the "Won't" and continue reading on out of curiosity.

[Stels]

Um hey, I need some time to read through everything that's gone one before I share my thoughts.

Take your time. You have almost 5 days at your leisure.

[Stels]

Still waiting for CS to come back... And to get a bit closer to the deadline.
@Ghostlin: I see the connection you made with hiplop and theamatuer.

[Stels]

Wow. I don't believe that JK claim at all. Seems like scum who desperately want to survive.

We could always resort to outing our 'actual' PR. We get 1 scum and lose 1 town; we clear Ghostlin; or hope luck is on our side. Either way, we have one claimed PR of possible 2.
I don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming, unless our situation is really hopeless, if we even have one. So, I am hesitant to disbelieve his claim at the moment.

[Stels]

Which of the bolded ideas is EXACTLY like the other?

You're saying they're suppossed to be? How would that help besides furthering your own case?
Hiplop's argument is that you were completely useless because you didn't post anything useful.
My argument is that you're completely useless because you keep parroting others.
So no, they're not 100% identical.

I'm not accusing you of not doing your duty, I'm accusing you more of why are you letting that slip--particulary since you called him 'genuine' in a post.

maybe because I stopped soon after? I'd say the only reason that's keeping theamatuer wagon together is because of my self-vote.

The idea from your post is that it was parroted after hiplop's. What Ghostlin means is that either scum-hiplop is leading scum-theamatuer.
Also some contradictions in hiplop's posts about self-voting.

~Confusion~

Can you stop talking about your god-damn self-vote?

theamatuer (3): ConSpiracy, Ghostlin, Stels

theamatuer wagon IS still there.

[Stels]

You know, if I wasn't the 2nd scum suspect and not stupid, I would repeatedly self-vote/unvote just to piss you off >:D.
But yeah
CS:voted me in early stage, then kept it because of self-vote.
Stels: voted me immediately because of self-vote
Ghostlin: who knows?
And to Ghostlin: just saying, but don't go thinking of everything as scummy. Just because they're supposed to lie and hide doesn't mean that everything from self-voting to commenting about their favorite pie is a scumtell. Based on their posts and possibly meta. Know what is normal, and find differences. Then use your own judgement to find which is scummy and which is just plain weird.
Btw: I'm saying this because I think Ghostlin is just jumping at everything suspicious.

I also was relying more on your other parts that contributed to your scuminess, than on your self-vote. Self-vote did help reveal that you are one of the most likeliest scum in this entire game, yet it isn't why I'm voting you now, is it?

Wow. I don't believe that JK claim at all. Seems like scum who desperately want to survive.

We could always resort to outing our 'actual' PR. We get 1 scum and lose 1 town; we clear Ghostlin; or hope luck is on our side. Either way, we have one claimed PR of possible 2.
I don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming, unless our situation is really hopeless, if we even have one. So, I am hesitant to disbelieve his claim at the moment.

Don't do this. Massclaim would just telling scum where to place their shots. Wait until either Day 3 or Day 4 when you are in Lylo, so you can examine the claims in isolation.

I did say I didn't want to do this. Hence the "don't want to resort to the 'other' PR claiming."

[Stels]

2) No. I guess the SEs (which I think is me, Morthas, hiplop and ConSpiracy) will fill in for him.

Looks like I'm a ghost in this game...
@hiplop: I'm a qualified IC as well...

Ghostlin: please write who do you think is townie and who do you think is scum so if you do turn up VT, we know who else to look at after we kill myself first.
.................That was the most awkward sentence I've written in my entire life.

Weird, maybe--but it's also weird to have two folks so closely parrot reads. TM and hiplop have had similar reads from the moment hiplop replaced in. I've seen people all agree on one thing before as town in a newbie game, all replacements--and one of them was scum, so even scum agreeing with townies has happened for easy cred.

Honestly, I'm going to say it bluntly--odds are very good there's a scumbag on my wagon. VCA will help you on future days somewhat with that.

When I flip town, I find the odds are good that hiplop will flip scum, to answer the other question posted--I'd be hugging 70% chance that one of TM and hiplop is scum.

I think he already said who he thinks is who.

[Stels]

Also, according to my calendar, CS should be coming back today. We can finally move back on track once he catches up.

[Stels]

Gotta love the way i am perceived to be neutral in all of my games.

You could do SOMETHING pro-town if you didn't lurk in all of my games. Posting fluff such as this^^
Besides, you're never neutral. Add lurking to that too.

@AeRyung: RQS is used to start off from somewhere. It usually breaks the silence after RVS. IMO, RQS is just blatantly unnecessary. Plus, even if scum know the timezone difference, they could only talk in their QT as long as the game hasn't started yet, that means no posts are made in the game and RQS being tied to scum in no way. That doesn't mean 24 hours, it means until everyone has confirmed. There's no one in my timezone, so I feel that whenever I post, all communication ends there. Maybe the purpose of asking for your timezone is to judge when you can post alongside someone else in order to not feel lonely and feel like the game is dead. Just my opinion on this one.
EBWOP: If someone said they were from the US for example, no one would know which time frame they were from, since the US has at least 5 different timezones.

Hm, possible scumteams I can see right now.

Ghostlin/DH-Star
hiplop/maybe Stels?
Theam/whomever, AeRyung?
hiplop/Theam

Fuck, that's not much. At least it's something.

Still feel like lynching Ghostlin when 2 of the same names appear twice throughout your list?

I already replied to that post. Nice try.

I've seen town self vote all the time. I've never seen scum self-vote, no this doesn't mean its a town tell, but its not a scumtell either. Its one of those lame-by-the-book scumtells that scum use, but never actually do. Llama posted something rpetty good, called "the scumtells that scum never does", and thats the case here.

I used the word WIFOM son, calling it out for WIFOM is pretty useless, and showing your strawgrasping.

I'm tunneling, and I admit it. I believe I've found scum. Why would I deviate from that? I've been playing close attention to every player, and you can't deny that. (asking q's, talking to them etc) I'm only tunneling with my votes..

CSL used to self-vote/self-hammer all the time as scum. You could look at his past games.

If this is going nowhere near the deadline, I will be forced to hammer. I looked back at Ghostlin's ISO, when I read your posts in game, I really thought you were doing well, you answered hiplop and I think at one point I really did believe you were posting content, but once I ISO'ed, it sort of just disappeared. All you've accused hiplop so far was leading theamatuer and voting based on an empty case against you. It's the same way for him though, on how he's leading the wagon on Ghostlin without more evidence against Ghostlin. I looked back at hiplop's ISO. Early on, he just stated brief summaries of Ghostlin's posts and how they weren't useful AKA fluff. To me, it seems like you're both doing the same thing in a way.
Honestly, this whole debate is confusing me, but, I am inclined to keep to my word.

Not immediately. But if the wagon even shows a slight chance of disappearing, someone hammers. Ghostlin is a good player and i dont want him to weasel his way out of death.

Unvote. Vote: ConSpiracy

Hiplop, you might have more experience than CS, but I'm voting for CS because people seem to favor him more at the moment. My love for you is the same.

no more wagon
REWAGONVOTE: ghostlin

L-1

[Stels]

EBWOP: Sorry about the last part, meant to say L-2, not L-1... Forgot that AeRyung unvoted.
FFS theamatuer. Again this L-2 crap.
Seriously guys, I'm fed up with this guy. He wasn't even on the wagon this whole time, he unvoted just so no one would hammer. Out of the remaining people here, no one would accidentally hammer. So it was safe to keep the vote on Ghostlin.
And, why would you vote just to keep a wagon there? If the votes were there initially, they would still end up there by the end of the day. He reeks of scum...
Please, I can't deal with this guy anymore.
Does no one really see what he's doing?

[Stels]

@AeRyung: theamatuer screams at the top of his lungs to me that he's scum. His joke post aside, every action so far has been scummy. Telling him to stop doing and alerting him of his scum behavior, he continues to do it, even though he does have the general hang of playing mafia and has played at least 1 guaranteed game off-site. He's the oblivious one, not me. I truly believe he is scum, hence I am still voting him to this very day. He is on at least half of the player's scum-list as far as I can tell, but it all depends on the Ghostlin lynch for them . Even on the remote 0.0000001% chance that he is town, he is just an eyesore that I would like to get rid of.

Also, the reason why I took out the timezone part of the analysis is because Stels informed that scum can talk to eachother before the game starts, so that logic is out the window. But that's IF they talked before the game started. Anyways, whoever this first lynch may be on , it will give us more information than a no lynch. Other than that, I'm seeing circles.

It doesn't matter if they talked or not. Asking for someone's timezone is a null tell. You can't possibly manipulate it in any way to help you in any way for any alignment. Once Day ends, they have the entire night phase to talk everything over. They wouldn't want to endanger themselves with talking about everything they want to do here.

Show me please where you said first that you thought Ghostlin scummy. I don't recall you saying that.

I never directly stated that, but I did have a bone to pick with Ghostlin in posts #175 and #193

Theam's I am scum post is a scum tell. Scum like to claim scum. Town doesn't care about it.

yeah okay. I "claimed" being an invincible immortal. Surely if I was saying the truth, you'd have no way of countering it at all.
and it was a [joke] because of what Stels said.

Either way, it's no reason to say what you said, even in a joking manner. So far, no one here is joking besides you. You have just been mocking me this entire time instead of looking at other people and further analyzing other people for possible scum/slips/etc. The fact that you're doing nothing right now shows how scummy you are.

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal.

WIFOM.

Ghostlin's claim seems honest to me. His play matches a PR (more of a cop, though) His reasons for calling Hiplop scum are bad.

That's my current conflict at the moment.

[Stels]

Reads on Ghostlin Flip:

Ghostlin Scum Flip:
Johhog - Town
AeRyung - Town
DH-Star - Neutral
theamatuer - Scum
Morthas - Neutral/Scum
ConSpiracy - Town
hiplop -Town

Ghostlin Town Flip:
Johhog - Town
AeRyung - Town
DH-Star - Neutral
theamatuer -Scum
Morthas - Neutral/Scum
ConSpiracy -Town
hiplop -Scum

@Johhog: So me explaining to AeRyung that part of the RQS which she has been talking about is null, me being sincere about TM and replying to CS is fabricated?..

[Stels]

I think we can put our differences behind us... for science... you monster.
=/
VOTE: Ghostlin

[Stels]

Illogical NK.
Morthas/TM are my bets.

[Stels]

Actually, it is logical if you consider it like this:
Ghostlin is townie, so logical scum would be either Hiplop or TM. Since Hiplop is proven townie, so TM must be scum.
Obviously they want me to get lynched day 2.
From this, we can guess that scum is (from order of most likelyness):
1.Wanted to get TM lynched.
2. completely unlrelated to Hiplop.
3. attacked by hiplop.
If anyone passes off this post with a single WIFOM, I'm going to rage on them

Logical scum wouldn't NK hiplop since he pushed for Ghostlin's lynch, making him easy pickings.

For the Town's sake, I hope Ghostlin doesn't flip Town because fingers would then be pointed at Hiplop, which I don't agree with since I think Hiplop is town regardless of what alignment Ghostlin is

Yeah, I guessed that either Stels or Hiplop would get NK'd,

since both would worsen my situation.

Explain the bolded please.

@Morthas: ISO'ed him and he's full of fluff. Besides the obvious questioning and under-the-radar one liners occasionally, he's my next scum suspect after TM =/

[Stels]

OK, if we try to leave all the WIFOM out, why did hiplop get killed? He would be an easy lynch, and his play didn't really match a PR, so it must be something we can't see. Yeah, his kill may have been entirely designed to confuse, but I don't think it's that likely. I believe there is something we don't get, so I'll ISO him now.

Parroting what I said and quoted 4 mins before your post...
For some reason, my gut tells me Johhog is one of the scum. Medium gut feeling, but it's there.

So yeah, Hiplop is IC, which is the only thing going for him right now.
If the scumgoal isn't to lynch me, then, probably to lynch down from level of competence. Therefore, you SE's are most likely next if this is the case.
It doesn't, I just noticed it as curious, since I have only lived in US(legal age 21) and China (where no one gives a shit for the rules anyway) I never actually bothered checking.

You're the only one talking about him being IC-qualified as the reason for the NK. You're worsening your situation again, since you are one of the 3 who aren't IC/SE here.

In the US, you can drink anything while inside your own house/property, no matter the age. Buying/Drinking anywhere outside your house requires you to be 21 years of age.

So CS is the next victim unless we protect/lynch him first, right?

Random target again...

[Stels]

You know that all the SE's here are IC elligible right? Only a select few have been IC's though. IIRC, Morthas was never an IC, yet he can apply to play as one.
All this IC talk is just going nowhere. It doesn't matter how experienced you are. As far as I can tell, if you keep thinking that the reason he was NK'ed was because he was the 'most' experienced, then that just worsens the newbie's position. Meaning, you.

So far, I've only seen hiplop interacting with SoulBlade (now DH-Star) and Johhog in a slighty more negative way than the rest. Johhog's appearance there again gives me that bad gut feeling...

[Stels]

Actually, my main point of Hiplop as IC eligible was that I am not IC eligible, so IF you wanted to lynch me, I would probably handle myself as well as I did day 1. However, since Hiplop is the only one who actually claimed he was IC eligible, he could've been lynched for that reason.
I'm looking too far into this, but I have nothing else to talk about

I have stated that I was IC-eligible before. Your point null and void.

No, those two points might look different, but in reality are the same thing.
First, Ghostlin is suretown now due to lynch, so the main suspects as said by so many people are one of me or Hiplop. Since the NK showed Hiplop as town, you thought of the NK as "illogical" and decided to ignore it, and decided to go lynch me instead. I say that scum's goal was to get one of Hiplop or me lynched by lynching the other. Since you see that one is town, you think the other must be scum. Comparatively between HIplop and I, Hiplop is an IC-eligible as he so said to everyone, and therefore it would be easier to get me lynched than him.

AtE.
Experience isn't everything. It's how you perform/act/word choice/etc.

I bet DH-star isn't going to answer either. Why don't you modkill that spot instead of finding a new replacement?

I bet he's scum and I bet we're all going to ignore the new replacement too.
/rage

Scummy-scum-scum post.

[Stels]

In that case, let me ask you one thing.

Between me and Hiplop, who would be easier to get a lynch with?

Both would be at the top of the list. Hiplop was eager to lynch Ghostlin. He knew Ghostlin was a PR and even said so in the thread. If he lived, he had some serious questions to answer.
You would be equally judged since you parroted pretty much everything hiplop said and did. If hiplop lived, you would be faced with the same trial.
Pretty much what CS said.
Repetition FTW.

I know you're online, so answer me.

I tend to post once a day. I post more than once when I feel extremely bored. Sorry if I didn't answer right away.

[Stels]

To be honest, I don't care if you lynch me anymore, since I achieved my original goal of surviving day 1.

AtE and anti-town behavior...

[Stels]

I try to not get lynched and you call me scum. I let you lynch me and you call me scum. I attack others and you call me scum. I defend myself and you call me scum. I post info and you call it WIFOM. I post other things and you call it fluff. You are going to lynch me anyways whether I'm scum or not, and I've given you my stance. Now either lynch me or go bug somebody else, K?

Never said you were scum when you attacked others. Never called your posts fluff. The posts you call info aren't info, they are straight up WIFOM situations. If you call that information, doesn't that mean you have sources? If you have sources you must be either a PR or of scum-alignment. Again, WIFOM. I don't venture there, thus WIFOM on your part.
Caring about not getting lynched is usually a scum-tell. AtE is just bad.
I'm not trying to be annoying here, but you have to be self-aware of your own damn actions. There is a good damn reason you were the most popular wagon D1 before Ghostlin's lynch.'


Morthas has been bothering me, so let's get cracking.
Starting with his ISO:

Spoiler: Morthas ISO

ISO#0: RQS Answers
ISO#1: Early AeRyung Town Call
ISO#2: Fluff
ISO#3: "Who is scum?"
ISO#4: Question to Flaker (paradox)
ISO#5: Fluff
ISO#6: Quote pl0x?
ISO#7: Self-Voting talk
ISO#8: Self-voting talk
ISO#9: Why?
ISO#10: EBWOP
ISO#11: Balancing of Reasoning, fluffy post
ISO#12: Fluff
ISO#13: Enthusiasm Loss ;_;
ISO#14: theamatuer-town. <-- WIFOM self-acknowledgement. Ghostlin's TM vote clarification?
ISO#15: Soulblade-scum. Soulblade: TM, Ghostlin, CS opinions?
ISO#16: Fluff
ISO#17: TM wagon -1 Dislike
ISO#18: @TM: why vote Stels when Soulblade.
ISO#19: @TM: no pressure, no accomplishment, are you distancing?
ISO#20: ? Fluff
ISO#21: TM counter
ISO#22: Ghostlin /facepalm
ISO#23 Ghostlin Vote =/
ISO#24: Ghostlin VI.
ISO#25: /drunk ; Ghost Scum, Soulblade Scum. Who to vote? idc if it's Ghostlin or TM, but I want Ghostlin to hang.
ISO#26: Paradox?!?
ISO#27: TM's random read on self being scum...
ISO#28: @Ghost: if you're town, how likely is hiplop scum?
ISO#29: JOHHOG!
ISO#30: Ghost/Hiplop scum. Partner IDK. Will do Stels ISO.
ISO#31: Ghost, give us info.
ISO#32: @Hiplop: what do you think of what Ghostlin said?
ISO#33: I'm neutral, MUAHAHAHAHAH
ISO#34: AeRyung obvtown. MMM drinks. Hiplop scum if Ghost town.
ISO#35: Fluff
ISO#36: Fluff
ISO#37: Strawman?
ISO#38: His Reads
ISO#39: CS = scum. Oh but don't put him on scumlist, but not on your townie list. Please ISO him.
ISO#40: Fluff
ISO#41: Boring game. Fluff
ISO#42: :O Ghost Town! Hiplop Town!
ISO#43: quote pl0x?
ISO#44: IGMEOY Johhog. Bad repetition.
ISO#45: @Johhog: Who else is scum except TM.
ISO#46: Quoted
ISO#47: Explain pl0x?
ISO#48: Drinking age, beer, vodka, alcohol, woohoo.
ISO#49: ???
ISO#50: @CS: sorry, no.
ISO#51: My bad, I'll post later.
ISO#52: Dropping my vote after replacement posts! Oh wait, I'll do it now. CS I want you to be scum.
ISO#53: CS ISO = Neutral.

His ISO, as I have stated before is full of fluff and questions that don't have any use to him. Get bad vibes from him. Gut. Hypocrisy. Flip-Flopping Around. Lurker Lurks. Neutrality Ahoy.
VOTE: Morthas

[Stels]

@theamatuer: who's Yamichan?

I'll probably do it later. I still angry about what happened to Yamichan.

[Stels]

Can we finally stop talking to/with Amateur? Anything he says now clearly won't change your reads on him anymore. Well, atleast not mine.

Problem with lurking is, I am not in the mindset to post alot of the week. That's about it.

Bad Vibes?

Nice Scumhunting.

Fluff?

I guess?

Questions that don't have any use to me?

What are you talking about? When i ask questions I always have reason to do so, atleast from what I can remember.

Hypocrisy?

Where?

Flip-Flopping Around?

Where?

Neutrality Ahoy?

You can say that about 90% of the players here. Besides, i'm not neutral to everyone, I find AeR town, Amateur Town, and everyone else neurtal. The only thing that that says is that scum are playing a very careful game. Never been in this kind of situation before so i'm a bit clueless on what to look for, I try though.

P-Edit: @CS: AGAIN?! Talk about lurking.

@Bad Vibes: Like you don't have any.
@Fluff: Yup
@Questions: So tell me where you have used your "Who is scum In Your Opinion "____"? " ever?
@Hypocrisy: You do it all the time here.
@Flip-Flopping: Hmm, I think I meant dilly-dallying =/ You have no opinion of your own, you just go along with AeRyung.
@Neutrality: No, I think everyone has got a read that's either town or scum except on you. And what does it have to do with your own reads?
@lol@CSlurking: lurker.

[Stels]

Well... IDK what to say...

[Stels]

Spoiler: CS iso

3. LYNCH GHOSTLIN, tm vote.
11.Dont lynch Ghostlin, lynch TM
13. Ghostlin only looks contentless. Ghostlin is good tm tunneler, otherwise null. LYNCHTM!!!!!!!!!!
17. Im late, TM is random, Johhogs anticlaim policy like. Ghostlin is town PR, play bad, theam buddying to hiplop, DH-star lacks reads. Scum roleclaim scum, aeryung case, morthas strawman, null, TMSCUM

CS's posts feel weird for some reason, but I can't put my finger on it.

<.< ^.^ >.> potraying CS as town, yet saying u are suspicous of him.

You are a L-1 because your actions and reasons condradict.

Aside from that, Stels is being unsually quiet recently. willing to switch my vote to him if there is a good reason.

no wait
......
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT PORTRAYING CS AS TOWN???

It just makes it seem that your only reason here for considering CS scum is just OMGUS.

cause CS's posts are so attackable.
Plus its hard to defend against 3 SEs, like I said.

Newbcard-scum. Using the easy way out, making no real effort to defend. Considers using WIFOM to defend himself which is a terribad idea.
Experience doesn't matter. Proving your point does. Concrete actions/defense help.
You have experience of some sort; technically and most definitely not your first time playing mafia as well, as you know your ways around playing the game and terminology.

To be honest though, the only one who'd care enough to lynch me is Stels, so you're going to have to wait till monday

Right on target ;D
+10 points to How-well-you-know-Stels-List.

Yeah. If anyone wants to lynch, they should do it now for Johhog's Gambit. Of course, I will not participate since I am not scum, and so even if CS is scum, the other is most likely not on V/LA and a lynch will happen. So yeah. My vote on CS was to test wether or not he could go online.
I'll go back to my original vote .
VOTE: 4nxi3ty

You realize that when you log in, you can set the forum to not record your presence as online, or simply view the game from a logged out state, right? I think you are getting desperate here.

Well,
If you are town, you will be the most help-
Ful person out there
Obviously the scum will target you. Also don't answer to anything you find here. Wait a
minute. Think about what I have done in the previous several posts in this page, and what happens when you combine these

Again, he's getting desperate.

D: Why Morthas!?! Why won't you just wait for me to hammer?!
VOTE: theamatuer for OVERKILL.
You cannot believe how long I have yearned for this moment. Eye-drops goodbye.

[Stels]

You know that I was V/LA and came back only when TM was lynched, right?
>_>

[Stels]

Also, this game is very confusing.
It's kinda late so I'll post tomorrow =/

[Stels]

:S I'm getting onto MS pretty damn late, and tomorrow I promise I'll post.
@CS: Yes, I understand that I was ignoring TM, but he was still #1 even to the point until D2 ended.
TM wasn't going anywhere and TM knew that.
Also what strikes me weird is, why are you questioning me about this? Is it bad to focus on other people too? Yes I was tunneling TM throughout 2 days, but I need to follow other people too, you know.
Oh please, do tell me what I said and for what I voted for then.

[Stels]

CS is over thinking things as far as I can tell. I don't mind taking responsibility for the TM wagon. IDC, he was my main focus this entire game. Disregard Morthas's vote and place my Twilight vote in his stead onto TM if you would like. I have been attacking TM while voting Morthas, yes. True. Fact. Do you really think I wouldn't follow that up with a vote or a hammer when the time was appropriate? I have said so before, I was always for lynching TM. If I didn't want to take responsibility for the TM lynch of anything thereof that relates to TM, why would I, during Twilight, even bother with voting him?
Are we trying to pull at straws here?

AeRyung is town, I completely agree here.
Johhog, I still perceive you as town and would hate for you to be scum.
Anxiety could be the other one here, but I don't know and I kind of doubt it since he hasn't said much =/

[Stels]

Huh, oh sorry. I flew in yesterday, was tired as hell, and first day of school today soooo. I'm real sorry.

[Stels]

One thing I can comment on is the case Anxiety made. It's complete BS as far as I can tell.

Spoiler:

Here is my case for the johhog/stels scumteam:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

Commenting on the NK is a scumtell(according to the wiki). CS already covered this earlier.

And I see CS is browsing the forums (wouldn't he get back tomorrow?) so my

gambit

would've failed even if Theam was scum, I'll assume he had the opportunity to be on-line some time during these days. Wonderful.

I assume that the term gambit is most likely used by scum, correct me if i am wrong.

What's this gambit you

(referring to cs, after rereading he doesn't look as eager as johhog.

and Johog are so eager to talk about?

Look, if we had lynched earlier AND Theam would've been scum, if CS would've been the alone scum member, he couldn't have submitted the night kill. If he was town, scum would either have to:

A) Kill him.
B) No kill.
C) Kill someone else, but CS would be confirmed town because he couldn't submit a night kill.

Well, it didn't work, but that was the

plan

.

this was a red flag for me. it looks like he is uncomfortable with using the word gambit again.

Okay this explaination of the gambit/plan (poor choice of words?) makes more sense than the first one provided.

um why am I scum?

And who is my scumbuddy, it wasn't very clear.

You're mainly scum because of your predecessors play, but also because I find it hard to believe that both CS and Stels is scum.

I would say that Stels is the other one, but I'm not sure.

-ignores my first question, decides to only answer the other two.

FUCK CASES. This ain't the first time I'm considered scummy because of a case, and still people wants them!
---
So something you wanna ask me, or what? 4nxi3ty didn't even answer to my failcase, so now I'm completely sure it's him. The other one - well, it's Stels or CS. Probably Stels, but hard to say considering that he haven't posted much lately. Please, I beg of you, look past my case and at my other actions instead. If you find them scummy too - well, not much I can do then, can I?

Why do want only me to answer your case and no one else?

After reading CS's case, Stels has become my other suspect.
He hammered on the first PR day one and on D2 his vote was placed on the other PR. Than when morthas hammered theam he switched his vote before the final votecount.

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.

With the timing of AeRyung's vote it is almost impossible for Johhog and Stels to be scumbuddies.

I disagree. It would be a pretty high risk to have the quickhammer happen then already.

your probably right about that tho i would've risked it xD.

1) Wiki is wrong. The wiki is so outdated, that it's not even funny to go according to it.
2) Gambit's aren't always done by scum.
3) Nitpicking words.
4) He did answer both questions.
5) His case is based upon you, why would anyone else answer it?
6) My vote on PR's is a null-tell WIFOM. D1 I have no way of investigating PR's even if I was mafia rolecop. Morthas is my policy lynch.

[Stels]

One thing I can comment on is the case Anxiety made. It's complete BS as far as I can tell.

Spoiler:

Here is my case for the johhog/stels scumteam:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

Commenting on the NK is a scumtell(according to the wiki). CS already covered this earlier.

And I see CS is browsing the forums (wouldn't he get back tomorrow?) so my

gambit

would've failed even if Theam was scum, I'll assume he had the opportunity to be on-line some time during these days. Wonderful.

I assume that the term gambit is most likely used by scum, correct me if i am wrong.

What's this gambit you

(referring to cs, after rereading he doesn't look as eager as johhog.

and Johog are so eager to talk about?

Look, if we had lynched earlier AND Theam would've been scum, if CS would've been the alone scum member, he couldn't have submitted the night kill. If he was town, scum would either have to:

A) Kill him.
B) No kill.
C) Kill someone else, but CS would be confirmed town because he couldn't submit a night kill.

Well, it didn't work, but that was the

plan

.

this was a red flag for me. it looks like he is uncomfortable with using the word gambit again.

Okay this explaination of the gambit/plan (poor choice of words?) makes more sense than the first one provided.

um why am I scum?

And who is my scumbuddy, it wasn't very clear.

You're mainly scum because of your predecessors play, but also because I find it hard to believe that both CS and Stels is scum.

I would say that Stels is the other one, but I'm not sure.

-ignores my first question, decides to only answer the other two.

FUCK CASES. This ain't the first time I'm considered scummy because of a case, and still people wants them!
---
So something you wanna ask me, or what? 4nxi3ty didn't even answer to my failcase, so now I'm completely sure it's him. The other one - well, it's Stels or CS. Probably Stels, but hard to say considering that he haven't posted much lately. Please, I beg of you, look past my case and at my other actions instead. If you find them scummy too - well, not much I can do then, can I?

Why do want only me to answer your case and no one else?

After reading CS's case, Stels has become my other suspect.
He hammered on the first PR day one and on D2 his vote was placed on the other PR. Than when morthas hammered theam he switched his vote before the final votecount.

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.

With the timing of AeRyung's vote it is almost impossible for Johhog and Stels to be scumbuddies.

I disagree. It would be a pretty high risk to have the quickhammer happen then already.

your probably right about that tho i would've risked it xD.

1) Wiki is wrong. The wiki is so outdated, that it's not even funny to go according to it.
2) Gambit's aren't always done by scum.
3) Nitpicking words.
4) He did answer both questions.
5) His case is based upon you, why would anyone else answer it?
6) My vote on PR's is a null-tell WIFOM. D1 I have no way of investigating PR's even if I was mafia rolecop. Morthas is my policy lynch.

[Stels]

1. The wiki is so outdated, that most of it is WIFOM. For example: Last person that hammers is usually scum. It changed to being the first/middle person. Now it's anyone on the wagon can be scum regardless of what vote position they are in. People adapt. Wiki doesn't.
2. I have done a gambit in the past as town, so I don't find the usage of the word to be a scum-tell.
3. You can nitpick anything then. That's just overdoing it, reading too much in between the lines that it usually backfires. Yes, mafia is usually the usage of words and persuasion. Trust me, nitpicking is the last thing you want to do, but do what you want. I'm just stating my belief and past experience in this field.
4. I do not see the third question that you posed to Johhog. If it's the one before where you ask him to explain the gambit, it's already in the thread before TM's lynch and his recent post when you asking him about it, so I really don't see what you were talking about there.
5. True, I am not forced to answer, but because of your case, you are reading more as scum to me, because you are trying to grasp at straws now. Thus I answer it and point your flaws in logic out and prove that you really are trying to come up with reasons to get the wagon on Johhog going that don't really make sense.
6. Did anyone else believe his claim? Did anyone else unvote Ghostlin after his claim? No. Policy lynching Morthas is the next best thing after lynching TM. What I mean here is that Morthas is an eye sore to me in mafia games and vice versa. As you can observe in the first post that I made or when he greeted me, we have a tendency to cast each other into our scum-list.

[Stels]

Sorry, you probably don't understand what I meant there. I always get scum-vibes from Morthas regardless of how he performs and I have played with him in multiple games. He is my IRL friend and a lot of the times it's either me or him or someone else of my IRL that is scum, so it's natural for me to suspect them, especially with past games where either me or them was scum. Policy lynching for me is like a ritual per se, or a tradition. I have a tradition of naturally suspecting my IRL friends no matter how pro-town they get, it's just how it works.
Treat that as an excuse, but both of those reasons, the fact that my gut was working on Morthas D2 and that Policy lynching him were both genuine.

[Stels]

4nxi3ty has been creeping up the scummy-list with his recent posts.
AeRyung still town
CS and Johhog are somewhere on the edge of my reads, one of them has to be scum. Can't tell who. Johhog seems town and CS can't decide who to follow up. Well, didn't know who until now.

[Stels]

WTF, I'm pretty sure I posted yesterday... Well, no matter.
I'm not as active, even though it is LyLo where I actually am the most hyperactive in my gameplay history.
One of Johhog/CS is def scum, and Anxiety.

vote: johhog

- should probably give him a chance to respond before you hammer.

This makes no sense as it contradicts itself. You vote Johhog, yet you want to give him a chance to answer the case against him. Especially in LyLo. Sorry, but this is too scummy.

[Stels]

Sorry Anxiety, but based on your recent posts, you are obvscum.

[Stels]

CS is my second bet here, since you asked.

[Stels]

How come you unvoted your top suspect?
See the flaws in YOUR logic?

[Stels]

thinking johhog and stels might be town buddies and cs/aery couldn't coordinate a quicklynch.

Yet AeRyung has been pushing for a CS lynch. Although not as of the moment... hmm.....

[Stels]

Considering this game is almost over, I want to be more careful on who I choose to vote for, stels, if that's what you're worried about. Everyone looks scummy at this point. You seem scummy too because it seems like your posts have become non evident since theam has been lynched. Once some had eyeballed you for suspicion, you became gentle and passive, as opposed to being the most verbally aggressive one out of everyone here. Why the sudden change in attitude, cowboy? ;D

I see you like your men wild.
=========================
Also, I agree on the Anxiety lynch. He has flip-flopped for quite a while during D3.

thinking johhog and stels might be town buddies and cs/aery couldn't coordinate a quicklynch.

Yet AeRyung has been pushing for a CS lynch. Although not as of the moment... hmm.....

nvm i feel better about my vote now.

vote: johhog

And the two things in this post are unrelated.

I will give CS time to answer, then I will put down my vote on Anxiety regardless.

[Stels]

VOTE: Anxiety
My choice stands firm. Scum should be lynched. Anxiety is my pick.

[Stels]

No, remember the gut? I wasn't sure, hence the can't decide between johhog and cs parts. Anxiety just pushed it with his last posts, so I was set on him. Last impressions are important, you know?

[Stels]

@Johhog: second the playing as scum. I hate it, I always get caught.