Newbie 499 - Game Over

[WeyounsLastClone]

Vote Snailman8

for being first in the list.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@populartajo: yes, often games get by a little slow. Several reasons could be of the different locations people live, (snailman in New Zealand, I live in Europe, other might live in America), which makes that we look at this thread at different times. Also, from what I learned from my previous newbie games, it takes a little bit of time to get grip on the game, so people might be a bit reserved with posting at the start.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I find Snailman's vote/unvote quite strange actually. With his actual vote he says he's eager to get things out of random voting. Which I took as one of the reasons he put a second vote on someone.

And The Fonz' vote, I feel is a bit of an OMGUS vote.

Also, populartajo, if this is your first game, I don't think we'll be getting anywhere fast on the first page, perhaps even first two pages. People will probably be careful, so that's why things seem to go a bit slowly (in my opinion at least).

[WeyounsLastClone]

The Fonz, I think you're a bit overreacting.

And IH and XenCobra, what do you think of this The Fonz/Snailman thing? Does it make one of the two suspicious, or is it an overblown first day thing?

I think I find Snailman's behavior a bit more strange than Fonz' reaction. Although Fonz' cursing was uncalled for, and could be seen as an overdefensive scum.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm inclined to put a pressure vote on XenCobra or IH, but I guess I'll wait to see if they pick up their prods.

I find IH's behavior a bit strange (as far as you can call it behavior after one post). He posts some helpful points, where he seems interested in helping everyone, just to disappear and say nothing else at all.

Basically we need more input.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wow, Tajo, calm down a bit. It's just IH's opinion. You do come across as a bit overactive. Not saying that's bad, or makes you scum, but you were and are really eager to post. Now, I'm glad by that because it got some things going, but I can also understand why IH find it a bit suspicious.

I don't know The Fonz' general playstyle, but it could be IH was in a previous game with The Fonz, and concludes from that.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm still not sure if I see The Fonz' behavior as trying to find scum-mistakes, or as making little thing suspicious so he can create a possible bandwagon on someone.

As for populartajo, at times he's like an eager newbie, and at times he seems he has more experience with this game than he makes us believe.

Not sure on Snailman and IH at this point. Their posts strike me as town. Now it's just waiting for Elmo and hopefully his analysis.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Weyoun, as you're here, any chance of an explanation of that OMGUS accusation?

I could give the same reaction as you did and start overreacting that you're accusing me. Fact is that you are the most vocal player at this moment, and I'm still not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing. At first i thought it was a bad thing, but now I can see it as a good thing that gets things moving. Only problem is it wouldn't be good if you got a hold on the town that way if you're scum.

Elmo seems funny to me.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Maybe the fact that I'm not that explicit in my opinions has something to do with that at this moment I'm really not sure who stands where. All I have is suspicions and gut feelings, and I'll try my best to get them to you with reasonable arguments, even though that's maybe not my strongest point.

Snailman has a sort of relaxed laidback tone, and seems to be just trying to find scum. I think scum might have a more aggressive, pressured tone, because they have to be focused all the time. That's why I'm still not sure if The Fonz is town or scum.

And Elmo is still funny. He's throwing suspicion around with possibly less explanation than even I give, and he even gets support for it. But at least it's a good way to get discussion, so that's fine.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@Elmo

Why do snailman's posts strike you as town?

Snailman has a sort of relaxed laidback tone, and seems to be just trying to find scum. I think scum might have a more aggressive, pressured tone, because they have to be focused all the time.

Is that the question you mean?

You say things like 'I like Fonz.' and 'Snailman is okay so far'. Where do you base those opinions on?

It's good to 'attack' each other as it gets things going, and it's a good way to get to know people's reasoning. But it's absolutely stupid if you go that way and not add any reasoning yourself.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Welcome Flameaxe.

And what kind of strange question is 'should anyone put a third vote on IH?'? Seems like you're asking permission to vote, and can't be blamed for it afterwards because you got approval.

And I don't like the way Snailman is going with his 'if you don't believe me, kill me tomorrow'. Seems like a rather cheap technique.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Okay, so if I understand you (being mostly Elmo and The Fonz) want an explanation for this interaction?

I'm still not sure if I see The Fonz' behavior as trying to find scum-mistakes, or as making little thing suspicious so he can create a possible bandwagon on someone.

Weyoun, as you're here, any chance of an explanation of that OMGUS accusation?

I could give the same reaction as you did and start overreacting that you're accusing me. Fact is that you are the most vocal player at this moment, and I'm still not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing. At first i thought it was a bad thing, but now I can see it as a good thing that gets things moving. Only problem is it wouldn't be good if you got a hold on the town that way if you're scum.

First of all, what The Fonz calls an OMGUS-accusation, is something I actually wondered. Note the 'I'm not sure' part. Now I understand it is his more usual behavior. Then I try to explain it a bit (maybe with a bit uncalled for sentence at the start). I'm saying why I have questions with his behavior, because I haven't played with The Fonz before.

I hope this explains it, otherwise please ask again, and I hope I can be more clear. It's just that The Fonz' reactions seem a bit overdefensive to me.

And IH, why do you say I'm mischaracterizing? I was just questioning the dubious method of using the 'kill me tomorrow' argument.

[WeyounsLastClone]

And The Fonz' vote, I feel is a bit of an OMGUS vote.

*Deep breath*

How in a million goddamned years is that an OMGUS vote?

ANSWER THE QUESTION

Then why were you referring to post 76 before, while that has nothing to do with this question?

I thought this was an OMGUS vote because he voted for Snailman after Snailman voted for The Fonz (even though he unvoted after). The Fonz reacted in a bit overreactive manner on Snailman's actions. That felt a little bit like OMGUS to me at the time. Maybe it's not the right use of the word, but it was still suspicious of me. If you want more reason, I can't give any, because that's all there is to it.

I don't really know why everyone feels Elmo is acting townie. He's pointing fingers likes there's no tomorrow, and interrogating everyone like he's the main man.

I'll reread the thread tomorrow, and hope to get a clearer image of everyone (trying to exclude how people's behavior might influence me), because at this moment I'm a bit at a loss with IH's and Snailman's posts.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I always tend to overanalyze, which is probably what causes me to voice my opinions with reservation. If I'm not sure, which often is the case, there's no point in pretending I'm sure about something, because that isn't my style.

And if you don't see The Fonz overreacted, I'm worried. He's starting to curse and be defensive right away. Instead of giving a reasonable explanation or just asking me, he's downright implying I had no reason whatsoever to call it that way. Maybe I made too big a deal of it then, but you do certainly now.

My vote isn't the one that put him on L-1. I wanted to keep Snailman that way a little while to keep the pressure on and see if someone slips up. So I'll unvote Snailman, and going to vote you. Call it OMGUS if you want, but I think you have too big an influence on town right now, and I've seen in other games where the player questioning everybody and acted overly consistent was scum, and I'm getting exactly that same feeling with you.

Unvote. Vote Elmo.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@ The Fonz: Sorry I misunderstood you and Elmo, and not answered the right question. But I answered the question (finally) in post 144. If you want to know anymore, ask, but I don't know if there's more to it from my side.

Anyway, I went through the thread again. These are the things that I found noteworthy. Sorry if it's a bit chaotig, ask if anythings needs explanation.

Snailman8
-vote/unvote at start while L-2 isn’t a problem. His excuse of ‘some noob mafia may use it to lynch you’, is particularly weak now I reread it. Post 25 doesn’t help much either. His FoS at that moment seems a bit OMGUS (although I almost dare not say that anymore ). Tries to shift suspicion from himself to The Fonz.
- agrees with Elmo directly in post 82.
- jumps on IH directly after Tajo, after saying he didn’t want to be gung ho with his vote earlier on in the game. I also dislike how he already is using the ‘it’s going to be turned back to me’ argument. Then he uses what I think is a back-up plan to cover why he did it.
- the ‘lynch me day 2’ is something I really dislike. It doesn’t get us anywhere. He can’t be sure IH is scum, and if both he and IH would be town, we’d lose using that strategy.

populartajo
-A bit overreactive in post 44. Could be his newbie eagerness, though.
-At first he finds The Fonz suspicious for not reacting, but then in post 53 he’s suddenly okay with it. I personally think that statement doesn’t fit with populartajo being an eager newbie.
-Blaims me for putting someone at L-1, while I voted first, and it was someone else who put the -1 vote.

Flameaxe (replaces 1nf3rn0)
-Needs to post more. But if he thinks it is quite simple, why not share it and get it over with?

Elmo (replaces XenCobra)
-Starts with a vote without explanation.
-After Tajo comments on that he’s not explaining much, he states we should ask him directly (after very very short impressions on everyone going no further than ‘I like him’, ‘I don’t like him’, etc.’). This is part of what I mean that I think he’s too much in control. He directs what he says and what others have to say, instead of joining in general discussion, or bring out theories himself. Then, when being asked a questions, answers it with generalities like ‘good question, I don’t know.’, ‘I base my opinions on reading the thread.’
-Why does he ask ‘should someone put a third vote on IH?’. I still find it a strange question. If he’d say why he said that, it’d make some sense, but now it can be interpreted in different ways, and isn’t a really helpful statement. Gives me the feeling he’s trying to lure someone in a trap.

That said, I’m a bit more warmed up to his behavior now, and can see it working, although I find it strange he only applies it to me.

The Fonz
-After being quite active, becomes a bit of a background character on page 2.
-In an otherwise interesting and well explained post, he states ‘I take my responsibilities as pro-town IC seriously’. Why, oh why, do you need to claim ‘pro-town’? Seems overly constructed.
-Post 63 is just an easy way of misinterpreting Tajo. (Tajo mentioned the players who he found protown not long before)

IH
-Day 1 post with helpful information. Mentions the danger of putting someone at L-1, but is the first to do so in this game.
-Already mentions LyLo for day 2 in his very first post.
-Votes Tajo for a, in my eyes, weak reason.
-Follows Elmo after Elmo only made 2 posts with barely any reasoning.
-Saw a scumtell. If it really was a scumtell, then why not tell us directly and place the vote, get that scum lynched, and get on with it. Or is my definition of scumtell wrong? I still don’t see what he tried to get out of it, or why he did that.

So what does this mean in terms of 'scumminess'.
For me, the most protown player is populartajo. He's eager to find scum, doesn't seem overly defensive, not too controlling. As far as the scummiest player goes, I'm leaning towards Snailman now. The vote/unvote thing from page 1, the jumping on IH thing, and the 'lynch me tomorrow if you don't believe' combined make him a very possible scum in my opinion. I still have my suspicions regarding Elmo, but after a reread I noticed I may have jumped on him too much maybe. He seems quite interested in asking the right questions to get things moving. My case against IH isn't strong at all, but I still don't get a real protown feeling. The Fonz, I'm leaning more and more towards town now. Can't say much about Flameaxe, I'd like to see more posts by him.

I don't think it's wise for me to bring Snailman back to 3 votes just yet, so I'm a bit sorry I unvoted him. For now, I hope these points bring some more discussion, and I'll leave my vote where it is.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Weyoun- one more question on that subject- do you really think it makes sense for anyone to place a serious vote as a retaliation to a random one? Let alone a random one that had since been removed.

No that's true. I knew it wasnt' a real OMGUS, but it still struck me a bit strange then, because the vote/unvote was against you. But I see any other might have pointed it out, and the vote was for the vote/unvote behavior, and not because you were involved. I don't know my exact reasoning back on page 1, but it was not much more than that I noticed that you were involved in the vote/unvote-thing, and you were also the one bringing it to attention with a vote for him.

We need to hear some more from IH and Flameaxe at this point.

What do you people see as possible scumpairs? If Snailman is scum, who might he be buddies with? And IH?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Let me answer some of the questions directed to me

Snailman8
- agrees with Elmo directly in post 82. <-- why is this notable?

I found it notable because a 'new guy' comes to town, and Snailman jumps in without much arguments, and you didn't also give the most thorough of arguments.

Elmo (replaces XenCobra)
-Starts with a vote without explanation. <-- Why exactly is this anti-town? I kind of know what you mean but follow it through.

I felt it as placing seeds of mistrust. I'm not saying it's particularly anti-town, but it's notable at least. I got a strange feeling from it.

The Fonz
-After being quite active, becomes a bit of a background character on page 2. <-- what does he gain from doing this as scum, specifically here & now?

Could be rethinking strategy, calming down so he doesn't slip up. It was just a bit strange that for a time he was the most vocal player, and then disappeared.

IH
-Already mentions LyLo for day 2 in his very first post. <-- LyLo is both common and real important in newbie games, why scummy?
-Follows Elmo after Elmo only made 2 posts with barely any reasoning. <-- why's it scummy to agree with someone if they see what you mean?

Maybe I'm reading too much into his first post. I just found it a bit awkward he lays out strategy for day 2, even if we didn't even start with day 1. As for following you, it's the same problem I had with Snailman.

As for the 'overly consistent' thing. I'm not sure if it is the same as too townie. From what I learned in my previous games, I felt that it's easier to be consistent as scum, than being consistent as townie. As townie you're torn between who to find suspicious, and who to vote for. As scum, you can work of a plan, and stick with it as long as there isn't too much trouble.

Also, maybe I'm a bit too distrustful if I see someone too townie. I read that Wiki-page, as I got the same comments last game where I also called someone too townie.

[WeyounsLastClone]

This place seems a bit deserted. Flameaxe, who do you find the most suspicious at this moment, and care to place a vote with some reasoning?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Flameaxe needs to come with some input soon.

Unvote. Vote Flameaxe.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Problem is I don't think both IH and Snailman are scum, and I really don't feel like finishing off IH when I'm not sure if he's scum or not. I could put Snailman at L-1 as well as IH, but I don't think that benefits town at all.

Flameaxe's actions aren't helping town at all, so I hoped that with my vote we'd be getting some more interesting and useful input from Flameaxe. Guess that hope was wrong.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Thanks Flameaxe for your input. You come across a bit defensive when responding to tajo. I also find it strange tajo seems to be a bit complaining that you're actually contributing now, but I still see it as tajo's newbie/townie enthousiasm trying to figure out what's happening. Maybe it's also because it seems you haven't answered yet why you started to give explanation that's part of tajo's suspicion. Sorry if you have posted that reason, I missed it.

I also find it strange we (well, actually not me that much, sorry) have all this discussion on IH, and he's not posting anything. Is he staying on the background trying to not attract attention, and see what the possible outcome of the discussion is so he can work from there?

The Fonz comes back with a great, lengthy post full of arguments. Only problem with it I have is that it seems to be a crusade against Snailman, and not reflect too much upon other players, but otherwise it comes across as helping town.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Still reading, not to sure what to post. I do find it a bit awkward slip up from Tajo with his second account. Maybe it has nothing to do with this game, but it still gives me a bit awkward feeling toward tajo.

[WeyounsLastClone]

lol WLC, I dont think awkwardness is nessasary, if I was drunk and had two accounts, I would probably end up doing something similar.

I don't like how you defend 'tajo. I see no excuse for mixing up. I don't like multipe accounts in any case, but if you have more than one, you'd better not slip up. Drunk or not, it's stupid and makes someone suspicious (to me at least).

My vote for Flameaxe was mainly because I couldn't find any merit in his playstyle at that moment, and thought it was scummy. But now he's been participating a lot more, I get a more town feeling.

I'm really not sure about Snailman at the moment. He seems to be participating a little bit, posting not too controversive comments to not draw too much attention to himself, I guess. Together with IH who seems to have disappeared entirely, I find him the most scummy at the moment.

Unvote. Vote Snailman8.

[WeyounsLastClone]

My guess is that The Fonz is not sure about Snailman himself, and found my vote suspicious. So with his revote Snailman is not really in danger anymore.

I don't see why I shouldn't have voted for Snailman. I don't find Flameaxe really suspicious anymore, so my vote wasn't in the right place anymore. At this point in the game, I don't think it's good for votes to go to waste. And Snailman together with IH are my main suspects. At this point I'm not certain enough to lynch either of them, so I voted for Snailman. In such a situation scum might slip up, or if someone goed for an obvious quick lynch, we have very useful information.

[WeyounsLastClone]

It makes me suspicious because 'tajo felt like an eager newbie at the start of the game, but has turned his behavior into more of an experienced player. I didn't think a newbie like 'tajo would have a second account, therefore it made me suspicious of the role 'tajo is playing now.

Glad to see Elias aboard, looking forward to your post!

[WeyounsLastClone]

It was more the fact that 'tajo, being a newbie, had a second account that struck me as odd, than that it would be more likely for a scum than for a townie to have another account. It made me suspicious of how 'tajo acted. But I saw his alter ego was created somewhat less than a month after populartajo was created as an account. That would fit with what 'tajo said about the game not getting somewhere, and he was just eager to play games, so he created a new account. So, it's probably less suspicious than I first thought.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Still here.

Wow, Elias, you say defending is your strong point, and yet when you do you start calling people asshole, post sentences in CAPS, and to top it all of you finish it with a, what seems to me, OMGUS-vote against Elmo. You come across a bit calmed down and more reasonable in your most recent posts, but post 327 is really making it difficult for me to see you as townie.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Why do you have to post with bad manners to get your point across? It's completely unnecessary. It just struck me as extremely odd that Elias told us he's good at defending himself, and then starts with caps and scolding at people.

I'd like to policy lynch everyone who feels the need for erratic and aggressive behavior instead of civilized talk, but then I'd probably have to lynch more than half of the people, so it seems.

The 327 thing was just that Elias' defense was too emotional, rather than rational, with capping a lot of sentences, calling people assholes and what more.

Flameaxe: do you think Elias' vote for Elmo is justified? I feel it's more because Elias is extremely aggrevated by Elmo's posts. I don't see Elmo as necessarily lying, but maybe he's hiding the truth. But Elias outright implies Elmo is lying, and says Elmo is 'jumping'. I don't really see Elmo's behavior as too jumpy. He's been on IH for aquite a while now, as far as I see now.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I've been rereading the thread now, and got to the post where Elias joined. I don't have more time now, but I'll post my conclusions up to now, and reread the rest of the thread later.

There are three people that I find suspicious at the moment:

Snailman: his first day vote/unvote for The Fonz doesn't sit right with me still. He's also the one throwing around the most FOS'es, and seems to sway along sometimes, when he feels he can jump on another ones argument.

That's it for now, hope to be back soon.

populartajo: maybe I'm really wrong, but I think he's an experienced player, who created a newbie account, and wants to try to use the playstyle of a newbie. He talks about prodding already on page 2, but needs explanation on OMGUS (why would he know what prodding is, but not OMGUS?). And sentences like this: "I have a question. What are the possibilities of winning if we lynch wrong today." make feel a little bit suspicious towards him. Snailman and 'tajo also seem likely scumbuddies, because of how they're defending each other.

IH: I don't like the trap he set up. Why claim to see a scumtell when there isn't one. It only brought confusion to each and everyone of us, which wasn't good for town in my opinion. Also, he warns of the danger of putting someone at L-1, but is the first one to do so himself.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I have a course this week and have very limited access. Hopefully I have some time to post something this weekend or next week.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Right, the votes are spread wonderfully among our players. Seems like it'll be difficult to determine who's our primary target for the deadline.

Snailman, you're the only one not voting. Who's your main suspect at the moment?

[WeyounsLastClone]

In the previous newbie game I was in with a deadline, at deadline 3 votes were needed instead of 4, but I don't see anything about that in the first post, how does it work here?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Tajo, why do you unvote Elias directly after Snailman puts him at L-1? Seemed like a great opportunity to me to get discussion and possibly a breakthrough after the deadline was set.

Can we have a vote count please?

[WeyounsLastClone]

As long as JDodge did not post that the day is over, I don't think it's a no lynch yet, right?

I don't know about Elmo's latest streak of posts. I'm really suspicious of people voting themselves.

Unvote. Vote Elmo.

(even though I agree a lynch is better than a no lynch)

[WeyounsLastClone]

@ WLC

(even though I agree a lynch is better than a no lynch)

A mislynch is not better than a no lynch

True, but it's also not really worse than a no lynch. And if we knew what is a mislynch and what not, there wouldn't be a problem, would it?

We have some more time to discuss now, and certainly some more information from around the deadline.

Unvote.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I've been asked about my L-1 for Elmo. I did that because we were facing a deadline, and a lynch is better than a no lynch. What I want to know is why populartajo did not vote, even though there was a deadline?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Although it really feels Elmo is a desperate townie at the moment, I absolutely don't like people advocating their own lynch. No matter what happens, they mostly turn out scum.

And I have grown extremely suspicious of 'tajo. At the start he seemed like an eager newbie, but when under pressure, and later in game, he really seems like an aggressive, sometimes skilled, player who could very well be scum.

At the moment I don't really suspect Elias, and suspicions against Snailman have worn of a bit.

It's very hard to choose between 'tajo and Elmo, but in principle I vote for people voting for themselves.

Unvote. Vote: Elmo.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Ok,

vote: Elmo

If he's town, then you know who to lynch (either ELias, Flameaxe or probably WLC)
If he comes up scum, then lynch Snailman8.
I have the feeling I¡ll be dead tomorrow, so good luck town.

This screams scum to me, but it's too late now I guess.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Since we're in lynch or lose now I don't want to vote rightaway, but post 541 of tajo is making me highly suspicious of him, in addition to his changing behavior in the course of this game.

Maybe it's a good idea to see who is on top of everone's scumlist right now. I suspect 'tajo the most at the moment.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Tajo is on one vote now for quite some time, without being unvoted by Flameaxe, or without being voted out of the game.

Suppose both are town, that's probably the least likely, right? Otherwise the two remaining scum could finish the game. So, if one of them is scum, who is the most suspicious from this situation? They could also be both scum, but I doubt that.

It's a difficult situation with just 5 people in the game, and all 3 townies having to vote for a scum. We probably don't have a cop, because otherwise he'd have claimed by now, right?

At the moment I'm the most suspicious of 'tajo, mainly because his recent behavior. Arguments like 'if I was scum, I wouldn't have done that' are pretty much moot to me, and actually make me more suspicious of someone. And I think Elias is tajo's scumpartner. He skillfully evaded lynch the first day, and seems to be 'in control' today as well. (But that's mainly my fault as well, because I have contributed nearly nothing at all for a long time.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Still here, still reading, and still don't know what to say more. I'm still suspicious of you, mostly because of your end of day 1 behavior. You already start implicating things to do on day 2 when Elmo is lynched (you spit 3 names out that we have to vote for...). Then your day 2 defense against the vote for you is only WIFOM reasoning like 'I wouldn't have done that if I were mafia'.

But it could still be that you're a somewhat desperate townie, and the reason that you're still on one vote is that Flameaxe is mafia, and not you.

[WeyounsLastClone]

post 630 was against Tajo. Sorry for not being clear, but did you feel attacked?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wow, now you want to vote Tajo?

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'm really sorry for not posting more, but at this moment almost all I have is gut-feelings, and they are against tajo and Elias.

And yes, I've read the thread, and no, that didn't help me to form a definitive conclusion.

I'm at the edge of voting tajo, but I won't because I'd hate to see Elias/Flameaxe win if they're the scumpair.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Well played Elias, getting out of day 1 over Elmo, and then making the day in day 2.

I'm sorry I couldn't contribute better. I'm really too indecisive sometimes, so this game is a learner on that part for me. Elmo must have had a frustrating time watching day 2.

Anyway, thanks for the game guys, I hope I didn't ruin it for most of you.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Fonz, if you had trouble with my behavior, why not with Flameaxe? If in LyLo there's someone voting another, without anything else happening, you know one of the two is mafia, then why'd you vote for another?

In my mind scum often can play more consistent, because they know who is what. As far as I experienced the townies have the more erratic behavior. Which is also what caused me to go after 'tajo. I was honestly at a loss day 2, so I kept (too) silent, instead of posting things that might have come across vaguely.

I don't think it is fair to assign the loss completely to me, because except for tajo and Elias, day 2 was badly played by the other 3.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Yeah, previous games I played also found people suspicious for 'lurking'. I still don't see why. It only attracts attention when you lurk, and as a scum you don't want to do that. I agree in a way that lurkers are detrimental to the game, and I'm sorry I've acted this way, but often when I'm town I'm just not sure enough of things to say something, being afraid people will find it suspicious. And when I finally say something, surprise, I get suspected. It's just a combination of me not being the best in translating my thoughts into words, and me wanting to be sure before I act. That's something I have to work on with playing Mafia, I guess. That's also why I think people who 'act townie' could actually very well be scum, because they know exactly what is happening and who is who, so they can post more coherent than a townie would do who is lost with his opinion.