Newbie 533: MafiaTV - Episode 1 - Finally Over!

[Tarhalindur]

Vote: JohnCataldo

You're claiming that I don't need to vote for you, therefore I obviously do need to vote for you.

[Tarhalindur]

Well, I've only made two posts, so I guess it should be easy to narrow down my evilness. I guess posting twice makes me a frequent poster and therefor more likely suspicious for SOME reason.

But I'll return the favor

at least

until I know why!

vote: JDodge

Why did you unvote? What did it accomplish?

So, you're asking for the thoughts of others without giving your own thoughts? Classic, classic scum play, especially so early in the game.

Unvote, Vote: JDodge

[Tarhalindur]

/prodded, seriously hoping that TGC and SoftIce either show up or get replaced in the near future

As for why asking for the thoughts of others without giving your own is scummy: by asking for others' thoughts, scum can give the appearance of contributing without actually having to take a position that they might be called on later in the game.

It's not a perfect indicator of scumminess, but it's scummier than anything else I've seen and I'm prone to blowing small scumtells out of proportion in the early game to get things started. It can also have the useful side effect of drawing out scumbuddies who attack a weak townie for a relatively baseless attack (see Newb 399 for a textbook example from Kate, albeit later in the game).

[Tarhalindur]

First order of business:

Mod, can we have a votecount for the lynch yesterday?

If I'm looking at the posts right, it's

JDodge (4) - Tar, SoftIce, Major, TGC

, but confirmation would be useful.

Second order of business: JohnCataldo touched on this one already, but let me reiterate - Cop, if you have a guilty, CLAIM. A Guilty today wins the game for the town.

Third order of business: My current scum list, from scummiest to most likely town:

1) Thorbjorn - Thorbjorn IGMEOY'ed JDodge (now confirmed scum) early on in the game but never voted for him, instead keeping what was originally a random vote for the entirety of D1. This is suspicious, IMO - it looks like an example of the FoS (Friend of Scum) tell, where a scum player FoS'es or IGMEOY's a partner in an attempt to distance yet does not actually vote for that player. Furthermore, after I brought up the case against JDodge, Thorbjorn claimed in post 36 that he saw merit in my argument but didn't like how I phrased my attack, which could very easily be a case of indirect defense and/or trying to cast suspicion on a player without actually going out and stepping on toes.
2) SoftIce - Massive lurkage (only three posts, and of those three one was a random vote and one was a commentary about game pace), and her post 34 may be a indicator of bussing, especially since, from what I have seen, the second vote on a scum is the most likely to come from bussing.
3) TGC - On the one hand, he was somewhat wishy-washy yesterday, and the way in which he hammered suggests to me that he wanted to get to night quickly (after he random-voted Major for a perceived "eagerness to get the day over with", no less). On the other hand, he did hammer scum.
4) JohnCataldo - I'm of two minds about JohnCataldo - some parts of his play look pro-town, some look very pro-scum. I'm going to wait a (real-life) day, reread his posts (with an eye for the Information Instead of Analysis tell this time), and post my conclusions tomorrow (I hope).

[Tarhalindur]

Upon further review, I'm leaning towards JohnCataldo being town. The main factor here is that JDodge voted JohnCataldo after his random vote early in D1, which suggests to me that JDodge and JohnCataldo are not scumbuddies (especially since JohnCataldo as scum implies that JDodge broke the random stage to vote for the Mafia Roleblocker - a potentially risky move). In addition, I am seeing some analysis and scumhunting in JohnCataldo's posts (especially in his first post today).

More later, I'm short on time. Before I go, however:

Mod, can we have a PROD on SoftIce?

[Tarhalindur]

Short on time, I'll vote for my top suspect now and give further analysis later.

Vote: Thorbjorn

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, maybe I should use my limited time to make an actual contribution to the thread for a change.

I cannot in good conscience support a TGC wagon when a) TGC appears to have dropped off the site and b) I still think that Thorbjorn is more likely to be scum than TGC is.

Time for the explanation that I promised WAY too long ago.

Vote: JohnCataldo

More later.

What is this all about? You are an IC, so obviously you're accustomed to the game. Maybe you're just trying to stir up extra water by voting without any explanation. Whatever it be, it seems suspect to me.

IGMEOY: JDodge

Thorbjorn seems to think that JDodge is the scummiest player, yet he merely IGMEOY's JDodge while keeping his random vote. What's more, he completely fails to acknowledge that he's keeping his random vote.

Thorbjorn claims that he just didn't want to unvote in the belief that it would get him attacked. I'm not going to dismiss this explanation out of hand - he's a raw newbie, so it's

possible

that he simply didn't know better - but I'm definitely not going to blindly accept his explanation either.

Unvote, vote: Tarhalindur

for the knee-jerk reaction to the questions I asked.

I read back and forth over this interaction trying to wrap my brain around it, and I realized I think I understand what you're saying, not to imply that I agree, but that I understand.

This looks suspiciously like "yeah, buddy, I'm going to support what you say without actually coming out and say that I support you" to me.

So, you're asking for the thoughts of others without giving your own thoughts? Classic, classic scum play, especially so early in the game.

Unvote, Vote: JDodge

This alone could make some semblance of sense. But as it is, Tarhalindur has only posted thrice in this thread. So obviously he can't be too terribly anxious to get things moving. So why vote instead of asking for an explanation.

Even so, I understand some people play that way. But then when prompted, he responds almost a week later explaining his action, and almost in the same breath expresses desire for players to show up more.

It's just kind of inconsistent.

Even so, I see your point Tarhalindur... I just felt the delivery of your point was weak and maybe even so far as forced or contrived.

This post was the clincher for me. Thorbjorn is being very careful to attack me without actually come out and say that he's attacking me (hell, his vote on me was a leftover from the random stage, and he never acknowledged it). If you're going to say that you think someone may be scum because he is being hypocritical (and I won't deny that my request for more action D1 was somewhat hypocritical), then go ahead and SAY that you think someone may be scum because he is being hypocritical. Trying to attack someone without making it clear that you are attacking reeks of scum trying to avoid stepping on toes for me.

[Tarhalindur]

My arguments: (hold up, need to edit these in one at a time)

To Thorbjorn's 'fool pool' argument (post 53):

My opinions? Wanting to know them? How can I trust you not to simply follow my criteria on who I think is townie and get one more convinced person on your side?

If you really want to know them, it was that JDodge was acting a little sketchy and I thought it was suspicious that people wanted to put the noose on him so soon. But I figured if he was eventually hung (while me voicing my opinions on how it seemed so suspicious to throw someone under the bus that hard in a 'Newbie Game') and he turned out to be scum, I would for sure be killed.

If I did hammer him and he was scum, I figured that I would just be seen as trying to sell my scumbuddy out, and then I would be lynched still.

If I did hammer him and he wasn't scum, then people would just figure I was trying to kill of townies, and I may have been suspicious along with all the other people who voted for JDodge, most likely, even more.

If I didn't hammer him and he wasn't scum, then I would be absolutely nowhere, for some reason, I didn't want to be in that rut, I just feared that if it was a townie lynch on JDodge then they would be against the newb who didn't post as much, lurking, which smelled unbearbably scummy.

It was practically lose/lose for me, I took a risk, and it didn't payoff, no big surprise there.

But before you make a mountain out of a molehill, why repeatedly beat on me when three other people voted JDodge as well? Major is dead, SoftIce was replaced which could easily throw everything up in the air, and Tar voted him as well, the only difference I had with Tar is possibly not posting enough as much, which can easily be explained with a little preoccupation.

I also seem to notice you voting Tar as well, why the sudden change of heart? I just simply was bogged down with homework, a slight surgery and an infection that simply hurts like heck.

I drift off for some amount of time, I tried to be on the internet as hard as I could, this place simply slipped my mind.

So, let me get this straight. As I understand it, your basic reason for hammering JDodge was that you wanted to give yourself a better chance for survival? And you're asking the people attacking you why they are attacking you instead of the other three people on your wagon?

Hmm. You know my comments earlier about finding you less scummy than Thorbjorn? They no longer apply.

I wasn't sold on your case earlier. I am now. Hammering someone to further your own survival (as opposed to hammering someone because you think they are scum) is THE textbook rationale behind scum bussing (the reason why scum bussing exists is because sometimes scum think that they will further their own survival - and therefore get closer to victory - by helping lynch one of their own); hell, playing for your own survival over helping the town scumhunt is one of the fundamental scumtells due to the difference in win conditions. In addition, you seem to be trying to redirect town attention to the other people on the JDodge wagon without actually showing why those people are more likely to be scum than you, which reeks of scum desperation.

Now would be a very good time for you to claim, TGC. If you do not, you WILL be lynched.

Unvote, HoS: TGC

pending claim.

[Tarhalindur]

As a matter of optimal play, I am reluctant to hammer TGC without giving him another post with which to claim. I don't think his claim will change things, but it's still better for us if we give him the chance.

That said, if TGC fails to claim in his next post, he dies. Period. And if our mod is on the ball then he WILL have to post in the next few days.

Mod: Can we have another Prod on TGC? I'd like him to actually have to post in the next few days.

[Tarhalindur]

Methinks it's time that I prod our mod.

[Tarhalindur]

Waiting for a claim from Jester...

[Tarhalindur]

Jester is posting in other games. Hell, he's posting in Mini 549 (where I'm the mod).

He's not posting here. (For that matter, neither is our mod.)

I am starting to get a little impatient (as in "setting aside my better judgment and dropping the hammer is starting to get appealing").

First off, I think I'll try prodding Iammars.

[Tarhalindur]

Alright, here it is. I'm sorry for yesterday, but I was impatient, and everyone dissapeared. I am the cop. Night 1 I investigated JohnCataldo and he is town. Last night I investigated Tarhalindur. He is SCUM. If I am counter-claimed I guarantee it will be him doing it. I really only let myself slip into impatience because I thought it might get everyone back into playing and I knew as long as I lived I'd be able to figure out exactly who scum was for today.

Bullshit. You're either lying scum or a very, very stupid Vanilla Townie, and since if you are a stupid Vanilla Townie then we've already lost the game I have to assume that the former is correct.

I am the real Cop. I investigated Major N1 as she was the player I had the weakest read on (I usually prefer to investigate players that I have trouble reading), N2 I attempted to investigate Thorbjorn (this time, I targeted the player who I thought was most likely to survive the night, since any result on a living player would tell me the identity of the last scum) but got blocked.

JohnCataldo, it's your call now.

Vote: Thorbjorn

for obvious reasons.