TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Gammagooey]

Hello friends

[Gammagooey]

And there was I thinking I will be relaxed for the opening 72 hours!

you FOOL

VOTE: Almost50

[Gammagooey]

Like, both RC and NSG have great read accuracy and I'm in here instead of RC which means no debuff of his tendency to butt heads way too hard.

ok good I was starting to get concerned that you took your cosplay of RC too far but self-awareness is tech

[Gammagooey]

Hey Deas

What's the worst post in the game so far in your opinion? I don't need an explanation atm but I might bug you about it later when everyone's shown up and posted something meaningfulish

[Gammagooey]

Flavor is not alignment indicative.

Hell my flavor is not even a gay man.
In a gay mafia game.

agree but for different reasons

If ya'll look very carefully at your role PMs you may in fact find the flavor names of the people in your group/neighborhood

It's possible one, mayyybe two of the scum are MEGA EVIL with mod-provided fakeclaims, but most scum PMs are probably just *you're X. Also you're mafia b/c like Putin has blackmail on you or something*

[Gammagooey]

I think EP is actually a really easy lynch and might not be scum at this point

then who might be scumz tho

[Gammagooey]

Hey Deas

Hey Deas

What's the worst post in the game so far in your opinion? I don't need an explanation atm but I might bug you about it later when everyone's shown up and posted something meaningfulish

I didn't feel especially passionate about any single post up to this stage, however if I absolutely had to pick one it would be 67.

VOTE: Espresso Patronum

Espresso hasn't made any new posts between these - did you reread and change your mind or is Espresso's iso worse than the sum of its parts in your opinion?

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I'm a bit tired from work + board games so I'm gonna just throw some people in kinda dumb categories for now and then probably play switch for a bit and sleep. Also I haven't read all of the flavor leaf+volpe stuff yet, these reads are from like 5pm EST today plus skimming the pages since then and a few quick isos.

some kind of town read

chennis
volpe
nomnomnom

I don't like any of their posts and they have almost none of them

Almost50
volxen

gut scum read atm but not confident in it

davesaz

More likely to be scum than most players that exist atm

Farkran (agree with chennis that his play seems overly cautious and in particular I dislike that Farkran felt the need to remind everyone of their other scumread on anka when changing votes to chennis - to me it feels like inexperienced scum trying to make sure they can't be 'caught' on anything. Also think that what other people said about his playstyle being a factor in why chennis scumread him is reasonable but I don't agree with it.)

I like their play on a personal level despite thinking it's very much in both their town and scum ranges

Ankamius
GuyInFreezer

Oh jesus I started this 15-20 min ago and volpe and flavor leaf are still going

peace for now

[Gammagooey]

I'm fully caught up.

So here's where i am at:

- I townread

davesaz

for trying to sort FL vs volpe in an obvtown fashion
...
- I am slightly concerned about

Maria

for disappearing after that espresso read. Need more content from there, it looks like a veteran slot, reminds me of Micc. Internal consistency and good logic are more NAI here than elsewhere. Inclined to townlean her though.
...
- Scumleaning

Gammagooey

for his readlist and timing. Need more content though.

Hey Fark, can you try to describe what about dave's posts on volpe & FL are obvtown to you? I agree that volpe's read on Elements was a generally good thing for dave to look into, but the tone of dave's posts around there feels more commentaryish to me than investigative to me personally, and I think that type of content can pretty easily come from scum as well.

I also think I get where you could be coming from in regards to Maria and I not being around at particular points in the game, but I want you to think about that for a second for me. Do you think it's particularly likely that either of us are limiting our posting specifically in a way that scum are likely to do this early?

For myself I can promise you that I wouldn't want to deal with the volpe/FL clusterfuck before bed (and in fact still would prefer not to deal with it because I think a lot of FL's posts are likely posting for the sake of his own amusement/ego in that big ol' section and I doubt I'll be able to interpret anything useful out of his posts there) as either alignment, and people 'disappearing' (which I'm taking to mean posting once or twice in a discussion and then bailing) in general in a game this big is a lot more likely to be 'the person had real life shit they wanted/needed to do' or just didn't feel like dealing with the game at the time than scum-motivated hiding from the thread.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last thing that'll probably be ignored - I would really like for the posting here to lighten up a little, at least until Almost/Easy Bake/volxen/etc show up with an actual opinion or two - I really want at least one or two solid opinions from everyone before I start diving into actually trying to get someone lynched today. Think before you spampost my friends.

[Gammagooey]

Wow, not gonna go through 21 pages, whats going on?

pages 16-28 or so are 60% or more volpe & flavor leaf having a bitchfest with each other

read the rest though please - chennis had a case on farkran before that happened that's worth commenting on, and there are starting to be more or less readable people in the game.

[Gammagooey]

WRT Maria: it's not just about limiting post quantity, but what you choose to post when actually posting. Going out of your way to say something about a specific player is relevantly AI. I don't know how at this point in time - it might be town!maria trying to put weight on the interactions engine, or scum!maria trying to look busy with the (supposedly) little time she has. The read is not strong though, as i said, i'd like a lot more content coming from there.

WRT you: same as above, you went out of your way and made a specific tier about me being scum, without having any context to base your read on. You can't expect to form hard reads like that and not getting asked to back them up. I mean, your push would be understandable in a vacuum -as i said, i've seen this movie so many times now- but the timing and confidence levels do not feel right. Your analysis of me is very similar to what chennis said and has the same information fallacy (you should really read one of my games. Any game. And not even the full game, take any random ~10 posts in my ISO to see what i mean) - incidentally, chennis was also your highest townread. Same as i said about dave, a town mindset would try to sort the 1v1 before taking super hard stances about players involved. Scum would pocket one side and sink the other, which is exactly what you did there.

With regards to the first point with Maria - I was talking about your concern with her for disappearing - I don't really get what you mean with her going out of her way to say something about a specific player (I'm assuming you mean her comments on espresso?). Like from my POV regardless of her alignment she thinks that espresso did something scummy and wants to call attention to it, either she's town and wants to call attention to it because it's likely to be coming from scum or she's scum and wants to point people at a player she thinks can be pushed as a mislynch (or as a distancing but that seems a lot less likely to me). I'm more asking you to re-evaluate *is someone 'disappearing'* actually alignment-relevant at all, esp. compared to what people actually do with their posts while they're around?

In regards to me - I don't hold my own reads in very high regard this early in the game, but at the time if I had to ignore the uber-lurkers and immediately shoot someone in the face to try to get scum it'd probably be either you or dave, and that seemed worth mentioning so people can at least attempt to read me (cause let's be real I haven't actually done much in-game aside from that and today's posts so far). I have read over some pieces of your previous games this morning and it does makes me feel a little better about you but I don't think it makes you likely town, just a little less likely to be scum than I thought before.

Chennis's push on you felt pretty genuine and well thought out and I agree with his reasoning on why you'd be likely scum here - I don't think scum make a case like that this early and push it that hard in what seemed like a genuine attempt to push and lynch scum.

[Gammagooey]

I'd like some pressure applied to DEB.

That slot has no mention in anyone's readlist. Not ONE.

um. no shit sherlock? he's got 3 posts that say nothing game-related. of course nobody has a read on him yet. if it was a real life week into the game then yeah that'd be shitty but we're two days in and two people spamposted for 13 pages in a day. also technically Deas mentioned him but it's probably after where you had read up to at the time.

@FL why did you jump from FoS on chenn to a hard attack on someone who voted him?

Ok I can't resist:

He has a red role pm.

Hey, man. Take a deep breath and say "Woosah!". 'K? You cool? Now imagine a hypothetical world where you and FL both had received GREEN role PMs. Are you with me? Now WHO is SCUM? Who is taking advantage of the situation? Who is trying to hide> Who is fence-sitting this? Who is trying to pour more fuel on the fire?

I don't like this post for a secret and potentially groan-worthy reason

but also you mentioned you were townreading FL - do you also townread volpe? Or are you just trying to get him to think in a similar headspace you're in regarding FL-town? (or did you ask this for another reason I'm not thinking of)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm gonna go grab dinner and then read over all the volpe+FL junk tonight, and probably go into my thoughts/reads in more detail sometime tomorrow

I guess what I'm saying is you have a

presence

, but it's really hard to discern what that presence is doing and it feels deliberate.

also also look at how town chennis still is for like all the posts on this page but I like this one particular

[Gammagooey]

@GIF: Lay off with that 606 of yours!

try logging out and resetting your cookies? And if you have the game bookmarked make sure it's to like the generic game thread and not a specific post, you might have the Quote #606 action embedded into it or something like that

[Gammagooey]

um. no shit sherlock? he's got 3 posts that say nothing game-related. of course nobody has a read on him yet. if it was a real life week into the game then yeah that'd be shitty but we're two days in and two people spamposted for 13 pages in a day. also technically Deas mentioned him but it's probably after where you had read up to at the time.

Do you know DEB? No? Then SHUT UP, and let me do my play.

Note: If DEB flips red gooey is 95% his partner. I'm shitting you NOT. Eventually, gooey's even going to BUS the shit out of DEB if they're scum together, so DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

but also you mentioned you were townreading FL - do you also townread volpe? Or are you just trying to get him to think in a similar headspace you're in regarding FL-town? (or did you ask this for another reason I'm not thinking of)

"Talk to the hand" is all I'm going to say here. You read my ISO and you make whatever conclusions you want to make out of it. Just don't talk to me directly for the rest of the game.

FTR: I hate old-fart semi-retired players coming out from their tombs and trying to impose their outdated measures from whatever prehistorical era they've lived in on our modern game. It's smug and arrogant to say the very least, and I don't want to get banned over it, so park your vote on me but don't talk to me.

...are you okay? Like you can do whatever you want in regards to DEB, I just don't see why he's worth mentioning specifically compared the other low-post/low-content players (volxen and elements come to mind)

I also have no idea what outdated measures I'm using here that you're talking about but I'm sorry if saying 'no shit' to you was a little mean, I'd like to think we can just talk to each other like human beings here.

[Gammagooey]

@gooey: Since you're at it. could you please explain -in more details- wjat it is exactly that you don't like about my posts? I am puzzled, because the first mention of it came at a time I wasn't even posting for real yet, and it was carried out to when I started posting and providing reads.

I didn't really like your opening to the game - your #15 (viewtopic.php?p=11477725#p11477725) has you voting GIF for a semi-serious reason that I have a hard time parsing whether it's just supposed to be a funny RVS poke or as close to a 'real' reason to vote someone as you're gonna find on page 1, and your other two posts (thinking the game would be relaxed and complaining to GIF to change his avatar) seem like they're bouncing between unserious and serious in a way that just doesn't feel super natural to me.

More recently, I don't like that you seem really hesitant when mentioning scumreads - your #1010 mentioning dave is qualified with it being a 'lead' instead of more plainly stating that you think the feeling you get from him of "hiding behind someone else" is scummy and your nom scumread is only in comparison to other people involved in the conversation/neighborhood in your #1093 (viewtopic.php?p=11484825#p11484825).
Like it is still early game to be fair but it feels like what I expect lurky scum to do - to not make big waves by scumreading people and pushing them (since they'd have to start posting a lot more if they got pushback on it and step up a bit into the spotlight) and just bring up townreads instead.

[Gammagooey]

@gooey: Since you're at it. could you please explain -in more details- wjat it is exactly that you don't like about my posts? I am puzzled, because the first mention of it came at a time I wasn't even posting for real yet, and it was carried out to when I started posting and providing reads.

I didn't really like your opening to the game - your #15 (viewtopic.php?p=11477725#p11477725) has you voting GIF for a semi-serious reason that I have a hard time parsing whether it's just supposed to be a funny RVS poke or as close to a 'real' reason to vote someone as you're gonna find on page 1, and your other two posts (thinking the game would be relaxed and complaining to GIF to change his avatar) seem like they're bouncing between unserious and serious in a way that just doesn't feel super natural to me.

More recently, I don't like that you seem really hesitant when mentioning scumreads - your #1010 mentioning dave is qualified with it being a 'lead' instead of more plainly stating that you think the feeling you get from him of "hiding behind someone else" is scummy and your nom scumread is only in comparison to other people involved in the conversation/neighborhood in your #1093 (viewtopic.php?p=11484825#p11484825).
Like it is still early game to be fair but it feels like what I expect lurky scum to do - to not make big waves by scumreading people and pushing them (since they'd have to start posting a lot more if they got pushback on it and step up a bit into the spotlight) and just bring up townreads instead.

1- Has it ever occurred to you that I am Town!hunting instead of Scum!hunting? This maybe the reason why you think my SRs are "hesitant" because I am mainly poking and observing certain slots to see if I can trust them.

2- Please go read any 3 games of mine (just pick 3 random games) and see how I start the game. My start here is totally NAI regardless of my role, my alignment, or even the players list.

3- Another point that bugs me is I feel you are trying to shut me off. Silence me. You accused me of being a lurker/not posting enough, but when I started posting you still attacked me and

ignored the other lurking slots

, and even defended one (DEB).

4- "it feels like what I expect lurky scum to do". Now tell me why DEb ot Volxen or <insert a name of a low poster of your choice> is NOT what you expect lurky scum to do.

Townhunting is fine, but you've qualified every scumread I've seen from you except DEB and me with some part of your post/statement while making it to make it have less impact. It's not just that you're townhunting over scumhunting. (which I also think is a lot easier to do as scum and usually doesn't negatively affect you in the future when the person you're talking about flips) If you prefer townhunting over scumhunting as either alignment then I can roll with that for a bit though - can you explain your reads on Ank & Deas and dave for me?

Not gonna read 3 today, but I was in Echo Bay SEO with you a year and a half ago and you seemed to be more active earlier on with actual content as well as silly stuff, and it didn't feel unnatural to me in the way that it did here. It is earlygame bullshit though and I don't see it as thaaat important, you just asked about why I was scumreading you and that's part of the reason why.

The only time that I think it's arguable that I tried to 'silence' you was when I ragged on you for saying that nobody had a read on DEB. To me that sounded like a post that you wanted people to look at and think 'oh Almost is pressuring/scumreading someone finally that's good' when I didn't think it said anything that wasn't obvious to the entire playerlist. In retrospect with you playing with DEB before and thinking he's usually more active than this I think you could have gotten that point across better than you did but I don't see that post as more likely to come from you-scum than you-town anymore. You did ask me to explain why I was scumreading you ya know.

Volxen does look like what I expect lurky scum to do. It's hard to meaningfully interact with someone when they're not here though. DEB I secretly like more than the rest of the uber-lurkers (elements and volxen) because he's literally not tried to post anything to even bother looking townie yet. I know this is a stupid reason and yes he should still come into the game and actually start posting v. soon but that's what I think so feel free to rag on me for it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

also I finished reading through all the junk in the middle of the thread and took some notes on it so I'm throwing those in here in a sec

[Gammagooey]

notes on volpe+FL (and some other posts in the wasteland from page 18 or so to 30)

-feels like they're just talking past each other on page 19 in regards to this

I was coming around Ank/Vex/MariaR as making sense but Chennis/Nom gives me some creepy vibes. Maybe FL.

(FL is harping that that volpe's comments on specific scumteams have him and chennis on it that were both scumreading him and is basically ignoring the Ank/Vex/MariaR mention
because it has the word "but" after it, while volpe gets mad that his intended meaning of *I think either Ank/Vex/Maria or Chennis/Nom are reasonable scumteams* is getting ignored)

-I think that both Volpe and nom feel like they're reacting genuinely to all this, Volpe is stream of consciousness posting basically all of his thoughts in this timeframe and it feels a lot more like an exasperated town mindset than a scum one
I think a few things are fakeable on their own as scum (viewtopic.php?p=11481955#p11481955) of wanting FL dead but not being surprised if he gets lynched instead could be written off as a 'pity me' scumplay, (viewtopic.php?p=11481990#p11481990) could be scum shading FL, (viewtopic.php?p=11482011#p11482011) could be scum committing to a tunnel,
but all together I think it paints a really good idea of what volpe is thinking at the time (especially considering most of these posts are minutes apart) and it doesn't feel like scum trying to get FL lynched at all costs, it feels like town going 'FL wtf are you doing literally none of this makes sense your push on me is garbage'.

nom bringing up the QT thing at the time with volpe saying he was going to change his meta for the game also feels like town saying 'fuck you, no, your argument is bullshit, i will chase you down and murder you with your own words' in a way that would make her look worse as scum if she actually get what she wants (a mislynch on volpe-town) and is way more likely to come from nom as town genuinely convinced that she's chasing down what she thinks is a scum lynch.

relevant things that I see FL do buried in the mountain of AtE and posting about himself: the initial volpe push, unvoting volpe, saying his 3 earlier scumreads are now townreads, saying he wants to vote nom (I've gone over his iso now too and I don't see why except maybe that she's pushing back on FL a little and still pushing volpe after FL unvoted?), and that's finally it.

----------------------------------------------------end of notes--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess my read on FL is very slightly scum but I can see him doing basically all this nonsense as either alignment. Last time I played with him he fakeclaimed a guilty (on scum, tbf) in a way that made it really obvious to me that he was fakeclaiming and I basically tunneled on him until a jester fakeclaimed a guilty on me and I got daykilled (it was not a fun game). An update on who he (and GiF actually, he hasn't been pushing anyone recently and I've lost track of who he's scumreading) are scumreading would be very appreciated.

Since Almost has posted enough for people to get a read on him now I feel like he deserves a break from me for at least a bit.

Attention: The Gooey votetrain is now leaving the station. To request a votestop on a non town-read

wagon

station, please pull on the wire and send a note with the reason for your request in the provided slot to be sent to the conductor.

VOTE: volxen

[Gammagooey]

Ankamius - cancel food

Dr Easy Bake - The Maurauders

Flavor Leaf - Wild Cards

davesaz - Busboy Revolution

chennisden - Quick Attack

Vex Vience - Doomsday
Volxen - Derp Wolves

MariaR - Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn

Gammagooey - Old Hat
DeasVail - The Lit Torches
kuribo - The Four Horsement

GuyInFreezer - Bird That Carries You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Elements - Team "Team" Team

Volpe14 - Tea Gathering Club

EspressoPatronum - Newb Kids on the Block

Almost50 - You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Farkran - DFKN

nomnomnom - SubOptimal Math

Hey aaanka (I changed the #008000 color to #00D000 for your list so the shadings would show up slightly better), do you have any new scumreads since this? and why do you read flavor and GIF as fairly strong town?

[Gammagooey]

Gammagoey has improved in his latest couple posts, i'm willing to let this go for now, also because there are more pressing matters to discuss.

I have finally received a review on nom's slot from my team, verdict is scum. In particular we have been discussing about 581, which we agreed that never comes from a town mindset. i.e. why are you upset that your neighborhood is outed when you believe there's scum in it? If there were, it's obvious that it had been outed immediately in the scum PT. Given that nom was scumreading volpe first and was willing to investigate GIF after he finally confirmed the hood, it seems that both pushes come from a scum agenda rather than a deduction from the two slots' play. Getting rid of the player in team with RC is motive enough to have an agenda against him (sorry GIF, but this is a burden you have to carry regardless of whether you are a good player without RC or not); less so about volpe, but the general feeling is that either nom wanted to get rid of the one of the most (now uniquely the most) active players or that he wasn't interested in volpe at all and that vote was just bait for the town.

TL;DR
1. Nom's burst of rage about his hood being outed is NOT consistent with him scumreading either of his hoodmates for it. Outing the hood might be dumb, but absolutely NAI or perhaps even slightly townpoints for dumbness.
2. Even if that burst of rage was naively genuine, post 617 implies that he has been townreading them up to that point. There's no way -from a coolheaded POV- you would think your hood would be protected if there is scum in it.

VOTE: nom we have him as pretty much confirmed scum.

Don't know yet where a nom redflip leaves FL, but it might be redeeming for Ank and pretty much conftowns the rest of nom's hood.

I disagree with this - I won't get into a huge amount of detail in case you want to hear more from nom but her playing as if her neighborhood is all town even if she suspects it's not doesn't really have a downside if she's wrong as far as I can tell, and I don't see why your 2nd point implies townreads rather than just frustration at having that attempt at playing that way ruined by GIF outing the neighborhood.

I think we should really focus on people who aren't brazenly scummy but more feel like they're playing from the sidelines

Dave and Elements are the poster kids of this

Like, I really think that hard wagoning Elems isn't bad here

Look at his town games where he has more posts on page 8 than he has here, and actually have posts solving minor things at least. The difference really is evident.

I think scum!Elems just didn't feel like it was necessary for him to do something since the gamestate was apparently fine for him and hard coasted, the epitome of it prod dodging commenting about A50 fluff of all things (while he was active elsewhere)

sounds fine to me
VOTE: Elements

[Gammagooey]

Dogs are 1000% better

Hey Easy Bake, DeasVail is a fox and that's pretty close to a dog

read over his iso and maybe a few other low-post-count people's and let me know what you think

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: elements

have you considered reading through an iso of a player or two and telling us what you think of them instead?

[Gammagooey]

never voted myself as scum

Hey look, there's a wagon on me!

That's something else that only happens to me when I'm town

looks like you would have in another game if someone else didn't beat you to it:

if someone is going to hammer can they declare it first so I can self hammer?

got to keep my three game streak going

Of self-hammers?

ye

Failure to answer question on a directly untrue statement about the past. (Lots of people were scumreading Jjh)

Said statement was used in an attempt to prove self town.

Conclusion: Not-Town

VOTE: Elements

No self hammer for you fishy, muahahahah

Elements, whomst was lynched, was a

Mafia Imprecise Bloodhound

Hello Elements! It seems something has corrupted you, making you aligned with the mafia! You have been given abilities based on a Magic 8-Ball, making you an Imprecise Bloodhound.

Ask The Ball (Bloodhound): You may investigate a player each night and attempt to learn whether they are Town or Not Town. This result cannot be affected by millers, godfathers, or similar roles, but fails on investigation-immunes.
Cannot predict now (Imprecise): there is a 25% chance the action "Ask The Ball" will fail. If it fails due to this ability, a "No Result" will occur, and you will be alerted.

You win when the mafia make up a majority of the living players or nothing can prevent that from happening.

night one begins now and ends in (expired on 2019-10-09 11:05:00)

So are you going to try to play the game here or not?

[Gammagooey]

My take on elements is that he can have around 24 hours or so of time to actually attempt to play the game and if he doesn't bother or comes out with anything close to that half-assed then he can die in an enormous fireball. If he does attempt to seriously play the game then I'll re-evaluate then.

[Gammagooey]

The fact that it's so hard to push Dave after he posts this kind of stuff really makes me feel I'm either completely out of touch with this game or the resistance is scum motivated

you say that as if the amount of people putting effort into making wagons happen this game is more than a tiny minority (that to be fair even I wasn't really in before today)

weeee VOTE: dave

[Gammagooey]

gamma get back on either nomnom or elems?

already said I have a townread on nomnom

If someone else votes elems in the near future I'll probably make my own votecount and then put my vote back on if it's not a hammer

[Gammagooey]

huh, thought elements had like 3+ more votes on him than he actually does

VOTE: Elements

[Gammagooey]

This post is not really going to help people parse me or my reads better but I feel that it's kind of needed.

@Volpe, chennis, Flavor Leaf & nomnom in particular, but it applies to a few more people to a lesser extent too - you realize that your ENORMOUS quantity of posting is making the game really, REALLY difficult to parse, right?

Like, I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping up with this game, but if you ask me right now I it's pretty difficult for me to put together in my head the reasons of why you're voting who you're voting at the moment because the game just feels like a gigantic pile of different conversations stacked on top of each other. It's really hard to gauge how hard you're scumreading your given suspects and why at any given point without spending 5-10 or even 20 minutes reading through the surrounding posts for context, and I think the ability to do that and see when it changes and why is pretty damn important for reading people for a lot of players.

Like, at the moment we're playing basically without DEB, Vex, Volxen, arguably Elements, and to some extent kuribo (though his abscense is also sickness related) partially because of how dense this game has gotten and how hard it is to catch up. Hell, Vex mentioned YESTERDAY that he was coming back from V/LA and working on catching up on a 30 page backlog, and we've added another 23 pages since then. I don't think anyone is going to argue that all of them could be scum, and for each one that isn't it's going to be harder and harder to actually get a wagon on scum through and gives scum more influence on the game and in addition to that all of the noise of this game is just mentally kind of exhausting to deal with.

So please guys - try to condense your posts a little better, wait a few minutes before posting to see if there's anything you want to add on instead of making a separate post or 2 or 3, or even just make a spoilered summary post of your thoughts once in a while so that the people catching up can process it better. If you need to talk to one or two people in particular to read them then that's fine, but please just remember that mafia is a team game (even disregarding other members of our individual teams that might be trying to read along!) and I'd really appreciate if ya'll could just make it a little easier for everyone to actually play it and contribute.

[Gammagooey]

So please guys - try to condense your posts a little better, wait a few minutes before posting to see if there's anything you want to add on instead of making a separate post or 2 or 3

, or even just make a spoilered summary post of your thoughts once in a while so that the people catching up can process it better. If you need to talk to one or two people in particular to read them then that's fine, but please just remember that mafia is a team game (even disregarding other members of our individual teams that might be trying to read along!) and I'd really appreciate if ya'll could just make it a little easier for everyone to actually play it and contribute.

Spoiler: literally 3 posts made in 3 minutes by chennis

I absolutely agree with how Maria views dave

Do tell, how does Maria view me?

"I agree with the former part of this quote that I forgot to quote that I’m probably a bit bias in the fact that I consider myself such a good scum player combining that with team mafia maybe my expectations are a bit high. Like if I saw an ‘easy’ scumread or reason to scumread someone I would probably give it pause (like the Ank example from before) I also agree that walls and effort are pretty NAI. The part I want to know is what examples from dave/chen do you find dif because our reads are exactly the other way around where I see Chenn as ya know, doing things. Compared to Dave who is playing to get an advantage."

Forgot which post this was from.

Also unrelated but I think I'm starting to scumread Gamma. I'll try to expand on this later

Basically Ctrl+V how I felt on Farkran/Dave

Also it's notable Gamma has agreed with a lot of the direction the thread has gone and gone with the flow. He really hasn't pushed anything he ostensibly believes with any weight, really, and his ISO looks like busywork. Since I also kind of think the game has been going in the wrong direction I think this is a productive avenue to explore

can you please wait literally 2-3 minutes so you can think of what you want to add instead of making 3 different posts to try to make the game more readable

The things I want are for Elements to post something substantial (I very much doubt he will do this and assuming that he doesn't I'll share some more detailed words about him by tomorrow night at the latest), a wagon on any of dave/Almost/volxen or Flavor Leaf even though that's a weak read and I doubt anyone else wants to push him particularly hard atm (and I very much doubt any of them will happen due to the state of the game being a hundred posts at a time with very few attempts at actually getting a consolidated wagon together), and for the lurker crew+Maria+GIF+Flavor Leaf to share some scum reads. Maria I suspect will talk more given a bit more time, the lurker crew may or may not ever bother showing up, and I think I already asked Flavor Leaf and GIF for their scumreads and I don't think I got anything from Flavor Leaf and got a list of townreads from GIF instead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Flavor Leaf: hey you're around. Can ya give me like the two people you're scumreading the hardest at the moment and why?

[Gammagooey]

GIF, A50, maybe DEB.

These aren’t strong, and my teammate, at least Jingle, doesn’t agree with that GIF read.

I don’t have a lot of scum reads that I’m confident in right now, which is why I’m not voting.

thank ya

Did you have any opinion on Almost's push on DEB and simultaneous mini-explosion at me earlier? I was thinking at the time that it was weird that he was pushing on DEB and that he might be pushing him over another lurker scumbuddy, but given his prior experience with DEB it makes sense at least. I do really want DEB to show up and finally be town like I thought he was earlier so I can feel vindicated about it but I don't really know if that'll happen anymore.

[Gammagooey]

That’s on a mech level, and he thinks GIF outing the neighborhood (which I’m actually not sure if he did or not, I thought it was nom?) is cray town.

GIF, A50, maybe DEB.

These aren’t strong, and my teammate, at least Jingle, doesn’t agree with that GIF read.

I don’t have a lot of scum reads that I’m confident in right now, which is why I’m not voting.

I’ve never talked about the A50 one, but if you look at anytime I brought him up, you can tell I was feeling it. It’s not strong, but like I said before, I’m really good at reading him. If he’s scum, I feel I’ll be sure of it pretty soon.

Odd you don't call this out Gamma

I don't have a problem with this but I feel heebie jeebies that you don't either when this is identical

are you calling me scum for asking you to not triple post and then also not also asking Flavor Leaf to triple post immediately afterwards?

I'm not going to butt in and ask every person who multiposts to stop individually

I'm trying to make a point about this many posts being detrimental to the game (and please honestly ask yourself - if you're Vex or volxen, which is going to make you dread reading the game more - seeing 30 extra pages of posts since you last checked the thread, or 10 pages of posts that are maybe as chunky as this one or a little bigger?)

[Gammagooey]

Speaking of gut my gut says Gamma is scum

I'll tell you I'm definitely not as in-sync with the game as I think I normally am

I usually try harder to get wagons started and pressure people and make things happen but aside from getting the wagon started on Elements it feels like putting in much extra effort into the game for things like that would just make the game more unreadable and worse

There's a pretty big disconnect from my perspective on how much content there is in this game and how much is actually useful to reading anyone, so I'd personally like to let the game breathe for a little bit and let the people who haven't dominated the conversation for a while come in with their opinions on the game. I've shared what I think generally once a day or so and I think that people can at least start to form a read on me based on that, though it's clearly not a lot given that it's still early day 1.

I guess I'm kind of rambling a bit but as I've mentioned I'm a little tired of dealing with everything that's going on in this game. I do encourage you to get some other player's opinions of me though - I kind of doubt people will have strong opinions on me but at least I'm not terribly hard to iso so you can hopefully pull a few lurker-opinions out of it and maybe get some fresh takes that will get people away from focusing on nom and volpe arguing with each other when I think they're both town.

Heading home, I'll be back on prob lateish tonight. I'll probably also sound less dreary by then since I'll actually get to do something fun for a few hours so that might be nice too!

and you've already unvoted by the time I've tried to post this

I still think you should maybe bug people about me and get those takes I mentioned but sure dave's still a scumread of mine so
VOTE: dave

[Gammagooey]

For the record, I refuse to give a shit about lynching in neighborhoods/not lynching in neighborhoods when it's going to be really, really easy for scum to coast on trying to lynch the theoretical scum in a neighborhood that might not even exist AND gives scum an out to not talk about/push on scummy people that don't happen to be in the neighborhood everyone is focused on. If there's a good reason to think that X is scum and they happen to be in a neighborhood that's good for mechanical bullshit then sure let's lynch them but focusing on the neighborhood over the actual play of the individual players is a bad plan.

gonna do this for now
VOTE: dave

Things I would like from other people

reads on dave (and in particular if you're townreading him can you explain why for me?)
SPICY reads (do you think your read is different from most people's on a particular player? tell me why!)
More general thoughts from anyone who has around the same amount of posts that I do or less
Top scum read (preferably with like a 2 sentence summary of why you think they're TOPSCUM)

If you do 2+ of these things for me you can tell me to reread a section of the game (not all of day 1 for my mental health) or a player and I will do so for you and give you my thoughts.

[Gammagooey]

dave do you have any spicy reads for me?

from what I can tell your reads are: GIF scum and Flavor Leaf scum for neighborhood related stuff like GIF's commuting thoughts and FL outing his neighborhood (if you have opinions on their non-neighborhood related stuff too I'd like to hear that), A50 town at least partly based off of his playstyle, a weak anka town read based on tone...and I don't really see anything else?

[Gammagooey]

hey im just gonna quote something from Reck, one of the mods of gay mafia 2 & this game and also kuribo who is a player in this game and is opposing people claiming their neighborhoods

Town had power. Just that true to Gay Mafia tradition,scum managed to out them

Yep.

the sk definitely had an uphill struggle. re-direcotr/roleblocker/fbi agent - any of those targeting the SK basically ends the game for it? + lack of anything to claim iirc? well she did have a 1-shot ability theif type role? uphill struggle but that's what you'd expect for an SK so it's fine.

i think the scum role synergy was pretty strong (bookie + governor = ++) and the re-director role is a bad one when the player isn't informed (and basically bastard IMO). town maybe could have used a stronger role or two? but I think town had a lot of obvious town roles that when claimed made them very hard to lynch.

Scum role synergy was def. strong, but I don't think it's bastard to say "Your target" instead of "PLAYERNAME" when giving results.

it's almost like it makes sense or something
If we think scum has an entire neighborhood to themselves b/c of nightkills or night actions we can massclaim then and figure it out. Let's not blow our loads this early please.

Also I'm gonna join Maria on this for a bit because I just kind of expected him to be better than he has been so far
VOTE: Deasvail

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Gammagooey

Gobble's been mentioning that he's pretty scummy. I was absent early game, but apparently Gamma's early game just focused on getting on ppl's good sides

I've posted reads ya know

It looks like you're done with your whole neighborhood spiel so like talk to me about some reads, do you think mine are garbage, do you agree with some of them, what opinions do you have that I can't draw a straight line from neighborhood logic->conclusion?

And for the record for some other people yes I do think chenn looks pretty town and I would like anyone who disagrees with that to fight me about it with reasons instead of throwing shade and not bothering to even vote me like some sort of COWARD WOULD DO.

my team heavily scumreads volpe

why do they think this?

Spoiler:

oh hey while you're here and since you outed that I'm neighbors with you

why are you SO DISAPPOINTING I saw your avatar and thought it was mildly repugnant but at least you'd be entertaining but you've just lurked through the entire first week of the game and contributed nothing

just please do something and play the game so that I or anyone else can actually read whether you're town or scum it's not that hard my man

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this has been your friendly mildly inebriated gammagooey who encourages you to not spampost but also please attempt to have a good time during this mafia game

[Gammagooey]

you've just lurked through the entire first week of the game

Spoiler:

my friend

I have been literally outed scum just spamposting music videos before and I enjoy that kind of nonsense quite a lot
but you gotta find some balance between actually posting things that will let people actually tell that you're reading the game and bothering to play it and fun music video nonsense posting

or one day sooner than you think you will find a wagon on you and nobody who gives a shit about bothering to save your ass from it because they're not going to bother putting more effort to think about your alignment than you've put into thinking about the whole damn game

step up your damn game son

[Gammagooey]

I guess my read on FL is very slightly scum

but I can see him doing basically all this nonsense as either alignment

. Last time I played with him he fakeclaimed a guilty (on scum, tbf) in a way that made it really obvious to me that he was fakeclaiming and I basically tunneled on him until a jester fakeclaimed a guilty on me and I got daykilled (it was not a fun game). An update on who he (and GiF actually, he hasn't been pushing anyone recently and I've lost track of who he's scumreading) are scumreading would be very appreciated.

....some more words....

VOTE: volxen

Really is chopping at me. I didn’t even realize. Why the Volxen vote over me?

ya know when you have almost 400 posts and can't even find the answer to your own question when you've quoted it in the post you're commenting on maybe you deserve to be 'chopped at'

Like I think it's pretty clear that I don't like your play on a personal level but I don't have a good reason to think it specifically comes from town or scum here.

Also, @Flavor & @Deas and at anyone else who thinks my neighborhood is some magical place that makes things make more sense - no, it doesn't. there's a grand total of 25 (maybe 26 now?) posts in it, with two of them having DEB posting very brief thoughts on a one player in the game in each of those, and I called DEB a punk on sunday jan 5th while asking him to read the game and post some more thoughts of his when he had nothing but a mention that he'd catch up soon and a GIF posted in the neighborhood.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I need to finish reading over the recent posts and I'll post at least a little bit of updated thoughts sometime tonight - I have read through Deas's posts (except for some of the things he linked in regards to his case on Anka) and they're surface level fine but nothing that makes me think that Deas is more likely to post them as town than as scum. I'll make the anka stuff part of my read tonight and that might help me read him better.
I think the main thing that irks me about Deas atm is that he seems to have a ton of townreads to the point where it's either impossible or borderline impossible for them all to actually be town and it just feels like he should know that too but he doesn't really seem aware of it in his posts? I can try to elaborate on this if anyone cares but it'll probably be just rambling train of thought stuff so I'll chill about it for now.

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma:

Is hito following along or is planning to in the future?

my team is generally not following along and I have told them not to bother because this game is a constant argument-filled shitshow, I did ask him to read volxen's iso for me like 10 min ago and give me a thought or two on that since that can read and processed pretty easy given his post count so when he gets back to me I'll put that thought in with my post(s) tonight

[Gammagooey]

Also UNVOTE: I like DV now

What do you like about his recent posts? It's nice that he has a readslist with reasons now but I don't personally see the individual reads being alignment-indicative of Deas. I like some of his reads but I don't think it's particularly hard for Deas-scum to townread people with some of those reasons being things that would still be genuine coming from Deas-scum.

[Gammagooey]

What do you like about his recent posts? It's nice that he has a readslist with reasons now but I don't personally see the individual reads being alignment-indicative of Deas. I like some of his reads but I don't think it's particularly hard for Deas-scum to townread people with some of those reasons being things that would still be genuine coming from Deas-scum.

Regardless if Deas is scum or not (and atm I lean no) If he keeps up this level of play it's gonna help get the thread moving again and that helps town. He's also taken a few stances that are against the grain compared to the common read. (Me Ank scum DEB town dave town) although the dave one might be a bit more common you get the idea. Maybe I should look into his reasons a bit more, but that wasn't the main focus on why I'm starting to like him.

cool, thanks - I do think his reach earlier on DEB making more sense as town b/c we're neighbors and were 'arguing' (we weren't) felt like grasping for an actual reason to call DEB town but I can see where you're coming from, and the game could definitely use a 'sane players posse' at this point and including him in it makes sense.

I'ma put down this dumb filler vote for now and be useful and re-vote when I come back tonight, I need to get some real-life shit done for at least an hour and change though.
VOTE: GuyInFreezer

[Gammagooey]

I think FL is town. Strong town lead.... However, the chance of FL being scum increases dramatically if Ank flips scum.

Hey Espresso, can you explain why you think FL is more likely scum if Ank is scum? I saw them talking to each other and joking about Ank being a SK in the 5-10 pages before you said this but I'd personally think FL would avoid potentially drawing a bunch of attention to himself if/when Anka flips by calling his scumbuddy a SK.

[Gammagooey]

that is a really, really off post volxen.

i dont know what to do and i went "ick" so i guess i'll kill the thing that made me go ick

VOTE: volxen

You're not even going to respond to anything I brought up in that post, or try to engage with me at all? I don't believe that town!you would write me off as scum so easily given our history together.

hito was pretty irked by this not having a chennisden vote to go with it when you say that you don't believe it would come from town!chennis - is there any reason why you didn't vote chennis here?

Also, do you have a read or any thoughts on any of Almost50, Maria, or Espresso? You haven't mentioned most of the playerlist so far, and in particular you asked chennis why he townread Espresso super early day 1 and haven't mentioned Espresso since then.

[Gammagooey]

I reread the first 20 pages or so of the game and then jumped around a lot, managed to go through all of Flavor Leaf's iso and found like...a single post in the 350 that leans town meaningfully. I lean him-town more now mostly on the virtue that I somehow didn't hate it more rereading it than I did the first time which is dumb but whatever I'm rolling with it for now. I think he will be easier to actually read once he starts pushing to try to get a lynch today and he will definitely be here for it unlike some players so I don't want to vote him today.
from my notepad file: [FL's #956 is the first thing I'd actually put as slight town for him (assuming a volpe-town flip which I am), defending his push with 'if he flips scum then of course my reasoning was right' is still FL's ego front and center but it feels like what town-FL would say against someone he thinks has a good chance of flipping scum]

I like Anka a little less than I did before but I didn't do a full iso of her like I did FL, I mostly just saw her posts in the periphery of other people. From memory the reason for not liking her as much was that she had a few posts that seemed a little overacty, like she was trying to get townread for them. I do like her readslist for the most part though.

Speaking of readslists

People who I'm willing to lynch

Espresso
Deas
Volxen
DEB

People who I'm probably willing to lynch, but like, give them a few days

kuribo
GIF
Anka (except give me, not her, the few days to actually read through her posts again, I feel like I'm half-assing my read on her atm)
dave

Strong town reads

Chennis
nomnomnom
Volpe

more words in a sec

[Gammagooey]

Okay so the main thing is now that everyone's stopped arguing with each other over everything imaginable, there's kind of a lot of consensus on a few people looking scummy at the moment?
Yeah everyone's argued about nom and volpe for forever BUT also I don't think really anyone except Deas has more than a slight town read on volxen/DEB at this point, and it seems like multiple people have wanted Espresso dead for a fair bit and it feels like he's been hiding behind neighborhood mechanics instead of engaging with people (specifically Maria recently) about his reads and using that as filler to avoid having to post much detail about his suspects & townreads.

Deas is not a consensus scum read and yes he is sane and I'd like for him to keep posting and being the beautiful fox that he is but to me he feels like scum posting mostly genuine reads on town players and not having scumreads because he's put basically everyone as some sort of townread so he's still on my list even though I don't think he's getting lynched today and I'm actually very fine with that.

kuribo reporting Elements' trust tell is NOT ALIGNMENT RELATED and I will fight you (chennis) about that but I also don't think he's pushed anyone in any meaningful way yet? I uh did completely forget until I isoed him just now that he made a reads-list that is fairly good imo. It's pretty close to the consensus reads I think but for now that's fine considering that EP/volxen/DEB are all people I would lynch. Actually if he just has some good posts when he comes back he's probably fine all together and you can forget that I put him on the list at all. YEP let's carry on then

GIF is not as good as what I'm used to and hasn't done anything yet this game day but he's V/LA at the moment so yep waiting

After going back I like dave's recent readslist a lot. He hasn't tried to push anyone particularly hard this game day or day 1 but this game day it feels reasonable to not have pushed anyone yet. He hasn't posted in a few days but if his posts in the next few days are good he can secretly be on the kuribo category of 'nevermind they were secretly fine the whole time'

This might end a little awkwardly since I should have been asleep an hour and a half ago but yeah I think Espresso/DEB/Volxen are all worth pushing and I think can be actual wagons with enough people on them to allow the game to function. Peace for now cya tomorrow.
VOTE: Espresso

[Gammagooey]

I do want to hear GIF thoughts before we lynch (and I personally would very much enjoy keeping this game at a chill slower tempo pace for a bit to see which of EP/volxen/DEB do come out to play)

There's one way to find out

VOTE: volxen

[Gammagooey]

Also voting an i active slot will do jack so

VOTE: nom

hmmm i wasn't aware that replacements got different role PMs

maybe his replacement will be town then

if you think volxen is scummy enough to powerlynch before he gets replaced then make a post about it

otherwise votes are v. easy to change once volxen's replacement is here and needs some pressure

I've gone back over Espresso and I still don't like the push to pointlessly out information. I've softened on the "town slip" a bit because I don't feel like EP was attempting to blatantly townslip. If that makes sense. Like, the way it was worded and the way it was taken as a "townslip" are completely different.

Can you quote the post that people are calling a townslip for me? I see some stuff mentioning the scum QT and whether or not it exists but what I saw was just hypotheticals that I don't see a reason why scum couldn't/wouldn't make, so I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right post or if I'm missing some context or something.

[Gammagooey]

Can you quote the post that people are calling a townslip for me? I see some stuff mentioning the scum QT and whether or not it exists but what I saw was just hypotheticals that I don't see a reason why scum couldn't/wouldn't make, so I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right post or if I'm missing some context or something.

It's somewhere along the lines of this:

If you give me a reason to believe scum doesn't have a team PT, then I could perhaps get on board with your thoughts.

To which Vex responded:

ep’s probably townie because of that statement though. i dont think scum forgets they have a factional chat.

But looking back in the cool of the morning instead of the heat of hatred, it doesn't seem like EP was trying to slip anything at all. It seems like EP was making a slightly sarcastic statement along the lines of "We should assume scum has a PT." And Vex misread it as "give me a reason to believe scum has a team PT."

Yeah that's what I thought it was

It's not intended to be a townslip and it also isn't a townslip at all scum could totally say that while pushing for people to talk about neighborhood info over actual reads that could push on scum and help the game actually work so shrugs

[Gammagooey]

DV looks really bad in this whole thing by the way.

How so? It'd be nice if he went into detail on why he's scumreading you like he's said he wants to but he's mentioned a scumread on you several times in the last few days.

[Gammagooey]

DV looks really bad in this whole thing by the way.

How so? It'd be nice if he went into detail on why he's scumreading you like he's said he wants to but he's mentioned a scumread on you several times in the last few days.

Yes but that's the weird part. If that was the case why would he need Ank to vote for me first to jump as well? That's the part that makes me worried of the slot.

because communicating with other players to make sure your vote actually starts forming a wagon and gets someone closer to a lynch is v. often better than voting someone alone and waiting to see if other people will join it?

Liiike I'm scumreading Deas too but bugging others to form wagons makes the game work and I don't see why Deas would be more likely to do that in particular as scum than town.

[Gammagooey]

@Anka - Mostly just want to let you know that I appreciate your thoughts on the gamestate + your scumreads atm

I kinda disagree with your opinion that the game's stalled out as opposed to just running a bit slower while we wait for several generally scumread players and a few others to actually play the game and/or catch up in reading (Espresso and DEB both have questions I asked them to answer even if they somehow can't find anything else to post about in 100+ pages, GIF and Vex have both said they're many pages behind) but I can def. see how that would cause you to be a bit more follow the leader than normal

Soon all the lurkos will have to post and actually get scrutinized for it while the game is still chill and it will be

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@Mods: Prod Dr. Easy Bake please

[Gammagooey]

Where we at fools. Need me to push someone?

voting someone would be a great start

how do you feel about volxen?

[Gammagooey]

I'm going back to lurk. See you Saturday.

Also sorry I'm easily irritated by idiocy, misrepping, bad faith, or a combination of the 3.

plz chill

For the sake of maintaining town focus, I'll consolidate on volxen. I think Gamma's push on me was disingenuous, but we can save that for tomorrow.

It's not disingenuous but I'll admit it was a little lazy

Do you have any strong townreads aside from Flavor Leaf that you wouldn't mind sharing? I mentioned a while back that I was having a hard time seeing where everyone's head was at due to the ridiculous pace of the game - It's a lot easier now for me to read a lot of people now due to more readslists and the game slowing down enough to read through conversations pretty close to when they happen, but it's not easier to read you b/c it feels like you've only got about 4 reads that you've shared recently and you don't really talk about most of the people in the game.

Aside from your Flavor Leaf read I have no idea who you're townreading and your scumreads are volxen and me and Ank and mayyyybe chenn and/or Maria but I can't tell if you're actually scumreading them or just poking at them because you disagree with what they're saying.

[Gammagooey]

Spoiler: last votecount

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Unformatted:
EspressoPatronum (3): kuribo, Ankamius, Gammagooey
nomnomnom (1): Vex Vience
Ankamius (2): DeasVail, EspressoPatronum
volxen (2): Almost50, nomnomnom

Not Voting (8): Dr Easy Bake, Flavor Leaf, davesaz, chennisden, volxen, MariaR, GuyInFreezer, Volpe14

With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch. Deadline is 1/22/20 at 10:30PM EST.

Current votecount b/c the mods are lazy

volxen (7): Almost50, nomnomnom,

chennisden

, Gammagooey, MariaR, kuribo, EspressoPatronum, davesaz
nomnomnom (5): Vex Vience, Ankamius, DeasVail, Volpe14, chennisden

Not Voting (4): Dr Easy Bake, Flavor Leaf, volxen, GuyInFreezer

With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch. Deadline is 1/22/20 at 10:30PM EST.

[Gammagooey]

Here's where I'm at:

Town

FL (drops if Ank is scum)
MariaR
kuribo

Townlean

chenn
nomnom
dave

Scumlean

Volpe (note - recent change. I had Volpe as a Townlean earlier)

Scum

Ankamius
Gamma

Everyone else is null.

As I noted before, I don't really have a read on volxen so he's more of a null. I'm willing to consolidate on him anyway because I'm not getting a town vibe from him. His 11 posts total doesn't really help the cause either. Worth noting that my scumread on Ank lightens significantly if volxen flips scum.

Happy to expand and/or give reason for any of the reads above.

thank ya

Why do you townread Maria?

[Gammagooey]

Ayyyyy firebringer

VOTE: DeasVail

Also I'm

V/LA

from tomorrow until the 25th (going on vacation to Universal Studios), I'll probably check in most evenings though.

[Gammagooey]

fire have you read any of the game yourself yet or are you just wanking around with your team's reads at the moment?

[Gammagooey]

THIS GAME IN FEW DAYS

Spoiler: pic

this was by far the best post of this game

that implies that we'll ever form a plan to begin with

[Gammagooey]

hoo boy i messed that quote up somehow

anyway

Chennis had a bad end of the day phase yesterday.

in what way? how's it more likely to come from scum than town?

[Gammagooey]

Also for anyone who cares my vote on Deas is reinforced by the fact that his behavior around volxen feels like scum setting up to take advantage of a town-volxen flip while he also seems very unconcerned by both Anka and Almost/skitter coming in with "hey this is actually just what volxen does as scum"

And I still think nom looks very town from her initial fight with volpe early game and 180'ing her read on him at the beginning of that so if you think Deas has a mitigating factor of 'maybe he's right about nom being scum' plz tell me why I'm wrong

[Gammagooey]

Chennis is open wolfing right now, so just ignore that.

I want Gamma to post more.

This is last you get for a while ya know
Gammaposting at the aiiiirport

UNVOTE: Firebringer

Idfk.

I think town loses this game.

I didn't realize you became such a bitch since switching to this account from boonskies

I think I will want to lynch nom or kuribo

Deas I'm functionally immune to AtE but I'm also p. clearly not the type to ignore/dismiss what people have to say b/c I think they're scum atm

Tell me the secrets behind your reads why is nom such a good lynch and what draws you to voting kuribo over others in the game

[Gammagooey]

Bitch I’ve always been a bitch, but I’m the bitch

Ok bitch

What are your thoughts on EP? You have him in your special highlights and I think EP will be a person of interest today for a lot of people

[Gammagooey]

Tell me the secrets behind your reads why is nom such a good lynch and what draws you to voting kuribo over others in the game

I honestly think nom is scum. I think that her posts are designed to make herself look town. I think her posting after the final vote on Day 2 and her posting about the kill Day 3 are scum pretending to have been convinced that Volxen was scum.

Can you point out a post or two that you think shows that really well? I can go back and find the context to it myself if you link it.

I remember you waffling around on your nom read earlier in the game (I want to say day 1 but it could have been early d2), do you remember why you had nom as possible town and why you think it no longer applies?

[Gammagooey]

DV if you think nom is scum, why are you voting kuribo?

DV I'm trying to delve deep into your heart here and then you go and make another vote I don't understand it's frankly quite rude

I read a few of your links and they're not great but nothing super damning imo (though I'm going to read them again tonight when I'm not on mobile), there's a few posts around there that felt pretty genuine though (particularly nom mentioning she was laughing at creature coming in basically the second he was hammered)

[Gammagooey]

Kuribo are you voting anyone today yet?

Who needs death today

And more importantly who's likely to be scum and also needs death today?

[Gammagooey]

Kuribo are you voting anyone today yet?

Who needs death today

And more importantly who's likely to be scum and also needs death today?

THE MOD HAS LITERALLY TOLD ME I AM VOTELESS TODAY

Here watch

vote: kuribo

right I forgot my b

work with me here though if you could vote right now who would it be
my best guess is firebringer but you know I'm all about those spicy reads if you have any for me

[Gammagooey]

thanks kuribo

dave I thought would post more and be better late d2 & today but hasn't yet and his post about volxen (and other people) isn't scumhunting feels weird when he isn't voting or doing much himself

DEB I would also vote because he's useless garbage

I'll be back this evening but gotta go literally now so cya then

[Gammagooey]

I don't want to vote kuribo

I would like for people to look at Deas and have opinions on him but in the meantime

VOTE: Dr. Easy Bake
vote someone you lazy fuck

[Gammagooey]

I think Fire has a guilty. If he does, I’m staying Kuribo. If he doesn’t.

seems dumb but okay

[Gammagooey]

Dumb that he has a guilty?

Then you’re calling Jingle dumb because he’s the one who pointed it out to me, and is why I’m considering it

ok
jingle seems dumb

[Gammagooey]

The vote on kuribo was not the first time I had indicated suspicion of him

this is technically true but you mentioned having a townread on him pretty consistently until today (even though you mentioned once that you thought the read was at risk of getting stale)

Like I know it feels like I'm picking on you in particular b/c other people have read changes I'm not pushing on (and I have some that I haven't even bothered mentioning yet - like for instance I like EP's posts at the end of d2 and start of today a fair bit for reasons I could probably eventually describe as more than GUT but it would take a while to actually go through and try to piece out why exactly I feel that way b/c at the moment I don't know it just feels town to me) but I dislike your play around volxen pretty strongly and your play this game feels disconnected from where & when you've been voting recently and I still want to get into that more.

You say your team is pretty passionate about nom & kuribo - what have they been saying about them? Did they want kuribo dead before today or have they just wanted him dead since the volxen flip?

[Gammagooey]

vote someone you lazy fuck

Your silly aggressive side is annoying.

good

Like seriously what is the point of my wagon. All y’all are mad about is a lack of presence. Name scummy things I’ve done. Y’all just can’t decide on an actual scum lynch so you’re going for the biggest null read in the game, and hoping for the best.
VOTE: Espresso Patronum

secretly you're pretty close to right

But if it's clear you're not going to bother trying hard enough to play the game and become actually readable as town or scum that in itself is a great way for scum to skate by for as long as possible without having to put out reads that could help identify their scum partners so it's probably still worth killing you for it

So tell ya what you have put out a few mentions/reads of people today - tell me what you think of dave and nomnom's play so far and give an actual read on kuribo instead of just dicking with him and I'll be reasonably happy to vote someone else for the next few days.

[Gammagooey]

DEB does a towngame where you were a useless lurksack and got lynched for it as town exist

yes but ssh

this is literally the most important game for people to go all out and imitate their 'town metas' and all that jazz to the best of their abilities until like another team mafia gets run 2-3 years from now

meta is generally garbage and it's at its most garbage when it's an excuse for lazy/shitty play - DEB is certainly smarter than his avatar looks and he can play or he can die

[Gammagooey]

why is everyone ignoring my posts about DV lol

iiiiii'd lynch him
everyone knows i'd lynch him
nobody else except Ank and now pant (maria doesn't count) has posted since you posted it
up ur awareness stat with your next level up

Gamma did you say your townreads? I don't remember seeing them recently

i didn't say townreads but sure have some reads

still v. town

chennis

prob still town and if you want this lynch you're sure not fighting very hard to convince people for it

nomnom

probably town because she has good reads

Maria

seems town

Almost50

I like your pushes but am paraonid about your motives

Anka

gut fine for now at least

Flavor Leaf
kuribo
EP

has 8 posts, fine so far

pant

has spooooky implications but still hasn't actually done anything yet today and is a general concern to me

dave

would kill

Dr. Easy Bake
Firebringer

would VERY kill

Deas

[Gammagooey]

Like seriously what is the point of my wagon. All y’all are mad about is a lack of presence. Name scummy things I’ve done. Y’all just can’t decide on an actual scum lynch so you’re going for the biggest null read in the game, and hoping for the best.
VOTE: Espresso Patronum

secretly you're pretty close to right

But if it's clear you're not going to bother trying hard enough to play the game and become actually readable as town or scum that in itself is a great way for scum to skate by for as long as possible without having to put out reads that could help identify their scum partners so it's probably still worth killing you for it

So tell ya what you have put out a few mentions/reads of people today - tell me what you think of dave and nomnom's play so far and give an actual read on kuribo instead of just dicking with him and I'll be reasonably happy to vote someone else for the next few days.

DEB

DEBBBBBB

did you miss this or not feel like answering it DEEEBBBBB

[Gammagooey]

I think this is right but don't take it as gospel

Dr Easy Bake (6): Gammagooey, Almost50, chennisden, Flavor Leaf, Ankamius, MariaR
DeasVail (2): daveaz, Dr. Easy Bake
nomnomnom (2): panthaleon, DeasVail
kuribo (1): Firebringer
Firebringer (1): nomnomnom

Not Voting (2): kuribo, Espresso Patronum

With 14 alive it's 8 to lynch. Deadline is 2/1 at 9PM EST.

[Gammagooey]

My bad g, I saw it but totally forgot. I’ve got class all day again so I’ll give you a good answer letter today.

i appreciate it

enough to do this even
VOTE: unvote

[Gammagooey]

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

[Gammagooey]

I think that’s weird because i was pushing Gamma all day yesterday, and I can’t see DEB ever making me loved.

you fool

yeah DEB & my group power is making someone loved

I actually voted for someone else (Vex, mostly because I think it's a dumb power and I'd generally prefer for it not to affect the game at all and I didn't think it would be on him) to be loved and assumed that DEB wouldn't submit anything because he's not in the QT very often but it got randomized to you (and DEB mentioned he thought you were town for once in the QT as his one night post but didn't explicitly say he was making you loved

our last man standing power is in my opinion will VERY likely only be useful if we don't claim what it is so I'm not planning on doing that.

I just got back so I still need to read up a bit - I would still lynch Firebringer, need to check if DEB and nom actually answered what I asked of them this morning, saw some Ank posting in the car ride back from Kennedy Space Center and was kind of disappointed that she wasn't on-board with dueling DEB/Deas wagons when both of them were in her PoE pile but I'll finish reading before I get into all that more

[Gammagooey]

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

yes let's and also answer what I asked you this morning please

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

I would lynch both of DV and FB, DV for reasons I've already said and FB because (as someone else mentioned or at least implied something similar to recently) GiF is a good player but his day 1 play was garrrrrrrrrrbaaaaaage

you are fine with DV getting lynched, why is that your opinion on him? also what are your thoughts on why you want FB dead, and what are your thoughts on dave in general?

[Gammagooey]

Also Chenn you're a loud voice that people will listen to over me. Help me get Fire lynched thanks

ok yeah fb slot is scum

If I help lynch Fire you'll help me bully DEB into doing things tomorrow right?

bullying lazy fuckos into contributing under legitimate threat of death is an important part of playing mafia

[Gammagooey]

Also Chenn you're a loud voice that people will listen to over me. Help me get Fire lynched thanks

ok yeah fb slot is scum

If I help lynch Fire you'll help me bully DEB into doing things tomorrow right?

bullying lazy fuckos into contributing under legitimate threat of death is an important part of playing mafia

Gamma I don't think you understand.
DEB has a ton of reasons to be scum
1) Why was he not a wagon until recently if he was town when he had 10 posts and would've been an easier no effort push than vol?
2) Making FL loved seems like a way to give brownie points
3) He's useless.

But I care more about getting fire lynched. To answer your question yes I'll help bully

1) DEB had OBNOXIOUS FUCKO ENERGY day 1 which I find comes more often from town than scum
2) He's too lazy to even tell me he actually voted to make FL loved in the first place he's not really jumping out to claim it for townpoints
3) I have no rebuttal for this

VOTE: Firebringer

[Gammagooey]

We should remember to still bully DEB

Not tomorrow, not when FB is lynched or something, but NOW

At least we agree on something!

yes this pleases me

DR EASY BAKE you get in here by this time tomorrow and post what you said you would AND MORE or I'll go back to voting you you lazy ugly-avatared sonuvabitch

[Gammagooey]

DeasVail - everyone interacting with him tells me he is a fall guy. Probably town.

this is a bad take, especially when you're townreading me and nom

dave feels like his normal towny self, not super active but always asking questions. Granted, I've never seen his scum game. That being said, I don't really have a real reason why, but I don't like him hoping for a doc in 3892. I usually think that verbally hoping for a doctor or some kind of protection is scum trying to seem town. Like, townies always are going to want protection, it's literally a mechanic to help us. It reads as "Hey! I want to live just like you townies! I am one of you! See?"

I'm really not enjoying nom's stuff. Flailing very hard at Ank's pressure, I don't like 4123, I don't really have much else to say about her other than the avatar is getting on my nerves, and that's RVS talk so no weight here. But I think I agree with Ank on this. I said earlier that I think Ank is our best bet as a town leader, MathBlade wanted one to emerge and I believe Ank saw the batsignal and came a runnin.

Not talking about this post, it was warranted since I totally forgot to answer you, that's on me, but Imma need you to calm down on your nagging. TueWedThurs are my busiest days, I'm at school from morning until night, so I'm not gonna be that active these days. I really am trying to be more active here on D3, hopefully this post shows that.

maaaan fine. it's a lot more fun to bully you when you're not being all reasonable ya know

[Gammagooey]

HEY NOM have you considered that actually answering people's questions instead of ignoring them might help people actually read you better

and also that you ignoring questions and only talking about your scumreads and not your townreads when this is the 3rd time I've asked you about it is KIND OF GRATING.

yes you have mentioned your opinions on DV & FB recently so I've crossed that out but please give me your townreads at the moment.

DV Ank FB is looking like a promising pool. Let's discuss those.

yes let's and also answer what I asked you this morning please

Hey nomnom, what are your thoughts on DEB and DeasVail?

I wouldn't mind hearing some other more detailed thoughts from you too (if X is scum Y is a likely scumbuddy or who you think looks particularly town at the moment) but I gotta go now so I can't give you more specifics than that of what I think would be cool to hear from you atm.

I would lynch both of DV and FB, DV for reasons I've already said and FB because (as someone else mentioned or at least implied something similar to recently) GiF is a good player but his day 1 play was garrrrrrrrrrbaaaaaage

you are fine with DV getting lynched, why is that your opinion on him? also what are your thoughts on why you want FB dead

, and what are your thoughts on dave in general?

[Gammagooey]

can you repeat the question?

What are your thoughts on dave and who are your townreads & why?

[Gammagooey]

can you repeat the question?

What are your thoughts on dave and who are your townreads & why?

Honestly I have none.

I honestly don't have many townreads which should be concerning but I like Maria, A50, Kuribo, EP.

Huh.

One more question for ya but this one you don't have to answer if you'd rather keep it a secret for now.

What do you think of me so far this game? I think you've only really mentioned me while mentioning PoE scum lists or possible scum pairs but I don't remember you really talking about my play by itself.

[Gammagooey]

One more question for ya but this one you don't have to answer if you'd rather keep it a secret for now.

What do you think of me so far this game? I think you've only really mentioned me while mentioning PoE scum lists or possible scum pairs but I don't remember you really talking about my play by itself.

my thoughts on you vary too much so you're null. Don't know why you would care about my view on you anyway

I don't really care about the ultimate result that much

but I feel like I've been interesting enough this game to have a read on by now if you put some effort/extra reading into it and I think being able to follow along with your train of thought on me might help some people get a better read on you.


Also I do want to bug you about one more thing - why do you like EP? What posts of his or which part of his play have you liked?

[Gammagooey]

uuuuugh nom

you realize from my perspective your townreads feel basically substance-less right?

I think most of your pushes of 'this person is scum' are fine and possible to come from town

I think your behavior from day 1 was completely justified and have said that I've townread it the whole game

But also Deas is right that you're way overblowing the possibility of you getting nightkilled and guaranteeing that town will lose if you get lynched today and you mentioned that you didn't have many townreads which should be concerning and I'm not really sure if you meant normally it would be concerning for us that you don't have many townreads or that you're concerned about the game/the players because you don't have many but YEAH I am concerned that I can't seem to follow any of your townreads because I feel like by this point in the game you should have at least one or two that you can at least explain your train of thought on well and that if they started getting pushed I could see you doing something more than saying that their wagon is dumb and voting somewhere else but at the moment I can't.

Can you at least see where I'm coming from here?

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: nomnomnom

I'll have more to say this evening

[Gammagooey]

I think I'd prefer nom to be the lynch today over just about anyone else now.

I skimmed through a few of her old games and I feel like she's pretty capable of having townreads that she could explain or at least that people could follow from them, and it feels like she's constantly attacking people instead of trying to seriously evaluate whether they're scum or not

I don't think her townreads have any substance behind them and she's definitely not treating Maria like a townread even though she just said she likes her:

Spoiler: nom's recent posts about Maria

I need to learn to read.

I don't believe in coincidences, this makes Maria look pretty bad.

kuribo you can't deny the possibility that this coincidence could also not be a coincidence.

How did Maria introduce the idea to all of you?

You're acting like I am blaming you for something when I'm questioning Maria's side of things in all this, which is odd and doesn't inspire me confidence in your slot.

You're acting like I am blaming you for something when I'm questioning Maria's side of things in all this, which is odd and doesn't inspire me confidence in your slot.

You're coming across like you're blaming me, or pant, or Maria, or whoever is convenient for something we'd have no prior knowledge of. "Maybe this makes pant look extremely bad" "oh no wait now maria looks bad."

It's not blame. It's just sanely questioning that the target just so happened to be in an invest hood. Anyone with 2 braincells would look at this and say "odd". I don't know.

can you repeat the question?

What are your thoughts on dave and who are your townreads & why?

Honestly I have none.

I honestly don't have many townreads which should be concerning but I like Maria, A50, Kuribo, EP.

The big fight she had day 1 that I liked she said was NAI here and she's said in a previous game that she tends to hyperpost as scum which are minor points against her too, but really I just don't believe that her attempts to read people and explain her townreads would feel this empty if she was actually town.

Spoiler: NAI nom fight quote

Yeah we get it, you're town, now can you play the game[/size]

I get letting her pass up but this isn't some kind of lock town tell or anything so back off on that

up to vote elems now?

I was thinking elems is a best lynch anyway

I really don't care at this point, sorting nom will be a task I'll put off for later in this game. Unfortunately I think this is really town indicative.

I'm not going to lock town this, it's just I really don't want to consider nom doing this as scum right now.

Unfortunately?

Also I've done this as scum too. NAI.

[Gammagooey]

Hey, I got either the flu or a really bad cold - I'll try to be around some tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

Still want to lynch nom - the self-voting shenanigans don't help and feels like she's just trying out things she might get townread for

I'm faiiirly happy with the wagons being nom/DV/Firebringer/DEB at the end of the day, even if they need to get consolidated a bit more (fairly soonish since deadline is feb 1st) before a lynch can happen

KittyMo read some stuff from pages 87 to around 117 and it wound up being pretty DV-centric since that's where my head was at when she did it - she particularly liked the first sentence DV said below b/c she felt it was too self-righteous for DV to make as scum, she also mentioned some DV meta stuff about how he plays and how having more townreads than scum is out of what she saw from his scum game. I'm still not particularly thrilled with his play this game but yeah that combined with nom's townreads appearing to be as wispy as ghost-farts has been most of my headspace-change in the past few days.

Spoiler: DV post KittyMo liked

VOTE: nomnomnom

Let's do it!

VOTE: nomnomnom

Please don't add more fuel to the fire. I mean, I still somehow have a Town Lean on you (despite the fact having too many TRs is usually a scumtell, because scum struggle to find fake reasons to SR/suspect someone they know is Town, are too afraid to go out of their way and move into the center of the stage, and they want to buddy-buddy with everyone so as not to have as many foes). I say, despite all that I still SOMEHOW lean Town on you, so please don't trigger my paranoia (which usually gets triggered when we run in circles and have no red flips).

Thanks for the advice and I am incredibly grateful that you somehow don’t scumread me, but I would like to vote for who I want to vote for!

Also I will post more about nomnom tonight! A quick look through my (fairly short) ISO will show reasons for me scumreading her previously if anyone requires that. I mean, I could easily fake some reasons if people want me too but actually explaining why I read someone the way I do in a way that makes sense to other people takes more effort. Also reading nom’s reaction to the votes has been useful!

@EP - is there a reason why you're not voting at the moment?

[Gammagooey]

I was holding off with voting until we finished the mass claim. Now that we're done with that,...

We did?? What's the LMS for the Movie Studio CEOs?

our last man standing power is in my opinion will VERY likely only be useful if we don't claim what it is so I'm not planning on doing that.

I realize now that I fucked up the grammar on that but yeah I have no intention of saying what it is and I don't think DEB should either (though he can if he really wants to, he's his own person)

[Gammagooey]

everything I do is scum obviously lol

well if anything, I'm pretty confident that Ank is town with this sudden vote shift so, yeah. There's that at least. Don't go back on Ank.

[..]
@EP - is there a reason why you're not voting at the moment?

I was holding off with voting until we finished the mass claim. Now that we're done with that, I suppose I don't have a reason for not voting. I'll rectify that now.

VOTE: Ank

Willing to swap to DV to help get the lynch through.

Is this a 1v1 I see?

Considering that you said in the past 2 days or so that you have a townread on both of EP & Ank why are you encouraging it?

[Gammagooey]

Hey almost, you're townreading nom right? I skimmed your iso a bit and saw it seemed like it was mostly from the volpe nightkill - can you explain that for me or if you've got other reasons for it lay that out for me? I'd agree that volpe isn't likely what nom-scum would want if you ignored the rest of a scumteam existing, but he was also one of the more highly townread people in the game at the time too.

[Gammagooey]

It's also demotivating when you think scum are fairly obvious but people just wanna not do anything. But then again,

I'm not supposed to talk about this without doing something in return.

So once again let me ask, if Nom flips town who do you guys go for
Same if Nom flips scum

And if nom is town who are the scum on the wagon

I appreciate you doing this, MariaR!

If nom flips town, I'd say FB and Ank look more like scum. FB for mechanical reasons bcz I think commuters have 1 scum + Ank for pushing a mislynch.

If nom flips scum, FB and Ank look better as town. FB for mechanical reasons (as above) + Ank for pushing a scum lynch.

boo mechanical reasons

I do think dave looks pretty sketch assuming a nom scum flip from calling nom a weak scum read and then never getting around to voting her over DV

tbf I'm not the greatest advocate of DV either though aaand I could see DV bussing given that most people have been too lazy to get another lynch through today (except for maybe DEB) and it's kind of been settled that someone's going to get lynched very slowly today and if that's the case why not bus and get a ton of cred out of it to ride out the rest of the game. I will say that ALL of dave/DV/nom being scum is too much paranoia even for me and I don't think that's the case, but 2 out of 3 wouldn't surprise me.

[Gammagooey]

Part of me thinks ur survivalism is just directly tied to just stealing the venge for a free kill as scum.

Other part is still screaming ur dumb townie.

I think dumb townie always wins but it really bothers me ur not actually analyzing my defense of u as anything. Like no comment in general if it’s scum motivated. It’s just on the hypothetical flip being very beneficial

man it's almost like you're coming to the same conclusion I did when I thought she wasn't really analyzing any of her townreads

[Gammagooey]

I still want to lynch nom but I would lynch Deas as well

can we make wagons happen now plz we have two and a half days until deadline

i'll make a votecount later today if the mod hasn't by then

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, can you do me a favour later today +/ tomorrow and take a closer look at Ank? You can look at my ISO for highlights of her scummy behaviour, but I also invite you to read through her ISO and come to your own conclusion.

I'll take a look tonight

[Gammagooey]

I still want to lynch nom but I would lynch Deas as well

can we make wagons happen now plz we have two and a half days until deadline

i'll make a votecount later today if the mod hasn't by then

I'll go onto DV.

Gamma, can you do me a favour later today +/ tomorrow and take a closer look at Ank? You can look at my ISO for highlights of her scummy behaviour, but I also invite you to read through her ISO and come to your own conclusion.

VOTE: DV

i did this

my conclusion is that your case is dumb b/c easy lynches aren't necessarily bad/town lynches and ank fairly clearly wants you dead and saying 'I think EP is scum for his attacks on me assuming nom-town' isn't a very scummy way of expressing a scumread on you

and also that ignoring some of your posts is alignment neutral because it is was an active fight to keep my eyes from glazing over when I read over your response to some of Ank's postings

if ank is scum imo it'll be because of the people she's attacking/defending today and their alignment and atm there are not nearly enough flips to know that yet

[Gammagooey]

this is a votecount because the mod only posting one every 2 days SUCKS BALLS

nomnomnom (3): panthaleon, DeasVail, Gammagooey
Dr Easy Bake (1): Firebringer
DeasVail (2): daveaz, Almost50
Flavor Leaf (2): Ankamius, MariaR
panthaleon (1): nomnomnom
MariaR (2): EspressoPatronum, Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (3): kuribo, chennisden, Dr Easy Bake

With 14 alive it's 8 to lynch. Deadline is 2/1 at 9PM EST.

nom had a couple posts that looked slightly town in the last two days but probably not enough to make me not want to lynch her

Flavor leaf is a tempting lynch mostly because he has 600+ posts of mostly noise and I'd for that to stop but I don't really have an actual justification for thinking he's more likely scum than town atm

Maria I might CAPSPOST at for having the stupidest reason to townread nom I've seen all game but I don't want to lynch her

HEY CHENNIS can you vote someone please
you too DEB

[Gammagooey]

Maria I might CAPSPOST at for having the stupidest reason to townread nom I've seen all game but I don't want to lynch her

On the other hand, lynching her might be able to help you with sorting Ank, me, and FL.

She's also scummy, so that's a plus.

lynching someone to sort other people is balls unless you're either in enough lock-town to win mode

also, lynching her wouldn't help me personally sort any of you except maybe Ank

also also I don't have a scumread on Maria so nah

Fair point. What are your thoughts on MariaR, me, and FL? More specifically, what do you think of her treatment of our slots?

Maria feels like she's trying to do things and I like her tonally so far and there are not enough people who I generally like for town pushing her to want to push that today.
You feel a lot better in recent posts (in that geeenerally they feel like actual scumhunting) that I don't think I want to lynch you today either.
FL just annoys me but as I said I don't really think he's got solid reasons to be scum over town. That might change if he was still playing this way after a scum lynch or really after any lynch at all today, but being an irritating menace and just poking people without doing anything is v. on par for how I expect boon to play as either alignment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Firebringer, who do you like for town the most atm? you personally your team's reads are fine and whatever but I want your personal opinion.
@Almost- same question and also can you remind me why you're personally voting DV right now? I kind of want to go back to voting him but I've lost track of your specific reasons for being on him in the vast posting wasteland

@Deas- aside from nom being scum what is your MOST IMPORTANT OPINION about your reads/the game I should know?

[Gammagooey]

Hey Firebringer, who do you like for town the most atm? your team's reads are fine and whatever but I want your personal opinion.
@Almost- same question and also can you remind me why you're personally voting DV right now? I kind of want to go back to voting him but I've lost track of your specific reasons for being on him in the vast posting wasteland

@Deas- aside from nom being scum what is your MOST IMPORTANT OPINION about your reads/the game I should know?

fixed a wording

[Gammagooey]

also also

THIS IS YOUR TWO DAY WARNING GET YOUR GODAMN SHIT TOGETHER

If you have any opinions to give and want to make the game function I highly advise being around tomorrow so we can actually godamn lynch someone

hey dave you're also around

WHAT IS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT OPINION?

[Gammagooey]

DAVE HAVING IMPORTANT OPINIONS IS IMPORTANT

Kuribo, please let me know any needed additions/subtractions/edits to the following list

GOOD ENOUGH TO MURDER, I GUESS
nom
Deas
Dave

YEAH, PROBABLY STILL GOOD ENOUGH TO MURDER I GUESS
DEB
Flavor Leaf
kuribo
Ankamius?
the rest of the playerlist in some order?

[Gammagooey]

There will be limited engagement from me until tonight, but in response to this.

@Deas- aside from nom being scum what is your MOST IMPORTANT OPINION about your reads/the game I should know?

I think Dave is town.
I think panth is town.
I think Maria is likely town.

Therefore I think the fixation on a scum team across our hoods is very much barking up the wrong tree.

why panth?

Also I'm probably going to vote you by the end of the day unless a nom wagon is a real thing that can happen so

If you have more to say about that or any other scumreads you wanna share that'd be nice too

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: DeasVail

votecount intensifies

DeasVail (6): daveaz, Almost50, Anka, nomnomnom, EspressoPatronum, Gammagooey
nomnomnom (2): panthaleon, DeasVail
Dr Easy Bake (1): Firebringer
Flavor Leaf (1): MariaR
MariaR (1): Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (3): kuribo, chennisden, Dr Easy Bake

With 14 alive it's 8 to lynch. Deadline is 2/1 at 9PM EST.

LAST CALL for useful votes and opinions that aren't on DeasVail

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: DV

L-1 apparently thanks gamma for the vote count

no prob

someone gotta make the game work

[Gammagooey]

This is a dumb vote

eh

it might be

but Deas should know this isn't a game where you can literally only have one scumread for two full game days and expect to take no flak from it

and nom ain't happening in the 27 hours we have left

so whaaaaat are you going to do about it

[Gammagooey]

I'm going to pout, sit on nom, hammer DV if someone needs to by deadline, and then spend tomorrow tunneling on nom until she, like, does anything.

k

if it makes you feel better I still feel that nom+DV being scum together is in the realm of possibility

cause if you're both going to be scummy and the game's stalling out due to town apathy might as well bus and make the other look better when one of you inevitably gets lynched (and what would their other plan be today - lynch DEB and both look like garbage tomorrow anyway for switching onto him assuming he flips town?)

but hey maybe I'm wrong about nom too and she'll actually like play the game and look town on her own terms after a DV-scum lynch that's possible too I guess

[Gammagooey]

It’s like you’re making an argument for me being underwhelming town

I mean I have said basically exactly that you've underwhelmed me earlier in the game so it's p. close to that

But I also don't see a particular reason why you're more likely to be underwhelming town than complacent scum who didn't think a wagon would flip on you by the end of the day.

And persistent sure but I dunno if passionate is how I'd describe how you've gone after nom.

I don't think there's a single player in the game who wouldn't lynch DEB over themselves at the end of the day but if you have more nuanced thoughts on FL I certainly wouldn't mind hearing them.

[Gammagooey]

Like my foxy friend
It is easy to drown in the noise of this game but stuff has happened this game day that hasn't involved nom

Help me see your perspective of this game day and like what your perception is of the votes on your wagon atm

[Gammagooey]

well that's a lynch

I'm still mostly okay with it

anyone got any last minute scum throwouts?

my secret paranoid scumteam is DV/nom/Anka but Anka is prob more likely to be town than not pushing DV here assuming DV-scum

dave seems weird for DV-town to keep as a townread even now but if DV is town then I can just be wrong him having that opinion I guess

[Gammagooey]

I was here, I lived, I loved, I was here
I did, I've done, everything that I wanted
And it was more than I thought it would be
I will leave my mark, soul, everyone will know, I was here

When things seem hopeless, remember that you're all great <3

cya friend

hope you managed to get some enjoyment outta this game regardless of your alignment

[Gammagooey]

I think that’s weird because i was pushing Gamma all day yesterday, and I can’t see DEB ever making me loved.

yeah DEB & my group power is making someone loved

I actually voted for someone else (Vex, mostly because I think it's a dumb power and I'd generally prefer for it not to affect the game at all and I didn't think it would be on him) to be loved and assumed that DEB wouldn't submit anything because he's not in the QT very often but it got randomized to you (and DEB mentioned he thought you were town for once in the QT as his one night post but didn't explicitly say he was making you loved

I already said that I don't really want our power to have a major effect in the game so get shrugged at? Like the only scenario I could see it being useful imo is if someone was very lynchbaity but I also thought they were very likely town (Espeonage in Signs & Void in Team Mafia 2015 would be a good example of someone I thought of like that) but there isn't anyone in the game that really fits that imo b/c most of my town reads are either not particularly strong or are pretty consensus in the game (like chennis was)

Like even using it on Deas yesterday if we could magically change it right after he made his last content post wouldn't have strictly been 'good' even if a lot of people town read him for it, there's a chance the nom wagon picks back up with one day left til deadline but it probably just makes it harder to lynch Deas over lynching no-one at all.

VOTE: nomnomnom
To pretty much everyone If you don't think nom is very likely scum atm I'd like to hear why.

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma why did you want chenn as a loved target?

she looked very town early game

[Gammagooey]

I think we should just lynch Flavor tbh.

Feels like thing pointing to him Flavor

As long as FL and I are alive, they have to spend a kill to stop the doctor ability.

I'd rather not make their job easier.

who did you two decide to protect last night btw?

[Gammagooey]

I don't really understand the fb thing, don't really care. Can we kill in EP/FL/DEB now? They'll be forced to use their 1 shot (at least EP/FL) nad if they don't it's a scum claim That's also a way to get a free lynch back right?

Is there a particular reason you're focusing on any of those three and not one in particular you find scummy?

Because yesterday you were going FULL BITCHING on how the game was garbage because we had 3 "not-mafia" flips and now for some reason instead of actually having one person you want dead you're pointing at 3 people and saying 'eh somewhere in there' so considering how bad another not-mafia flip would be today compared to yesterday it feels v. bad.

Especially when I think there's a very strong likelihood of nom being scum based on her play yesterday as well as other things that I'm going to leave unsaid for the moment

[Gammagooey]

I cannot tell who is scum and who is just aimlessly not playing the game.

I do not like the way either a50 or gamma joined this wagon

I am very playing this game and I am willing to entertain the idea of lynching someone who isn't nom if any particular player is willing to fight for their scum read on a player

But nom's play yesterday was imo v. bad and I said so then and continue to say so now so yeah I'm pretty happy with my vote on nom at the moment

[Gammagooey]

I still don't want a nom lynch, I feel like I'm quacking in the wind on that one.

man either vote someone you think is scummier than her or explain it to me because I don't want to go deep isohunting when I should already be asleep

She doesn't have any townreads that seem thought out at all, she pushed to try to get attention for a 1v1 with two of her townreads when she was the leading wagon, her d1 play in retrospect feels mostly like an enormous NAI argument

actually im just going to sleep now b/c that is the best option left to me so I'll see ya'll tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

You know what

I think scums think they know where I would shoot, so they think it's safe to vote me.

Perhaps it changes how I view this whole game...

uh huh.

you realize that if you're town that pretty much RIGHT NOW is pretty much the best chance you're going to get to change the course of this game and convince people to go with your reads on the game right?

For better or worse you're the center of attention atm, there isn't a load of apathy from the day dragging on for a week+ and nothing happening, and I'd assume that most people on the DV wagon are recalibrating their reads to some extent.

Do you have anyone in particular you think looks very good/very bad from yesterday or anything that you think people are overlooking that isn't entirely focused on yourself?

[Gammagooey]

what's odd about it and why is it more likely to come from scum than town in your opinion?

[Gammagooey]

My biggest town case for townNom is Firebringer getting pushed out of the neighborhood. Why wouldn’t that have happened earlier if Nom was scum.

Because nom wasn't in imminent danger of being lynched until day 3

or because GIF was in the firebringer's slot until day 3

like I don't see any reason TO kick GIF/Fire out of the neighborhood until literally the night that it happened

[Gammagooey]

Okay so I've wanted to see other people actually THINK AND PUT EFFORT into this game because maybe they'll come to the same conclusions I have and maybe they'll just look legitimately town from doing it even if they're completely off-base from what I'm thinking

But really does NOBODY else look at nom suddenly becoming vengeful because of a scum action and think 'Oh, that's pretty clearly b/c nom is scum and they want to give her a vengeful on the way out'

Because the alternative is that scum think nom is so bad that not only are they betting on her hitting town, they're betting on it hard enough that it doesn't even MATTER that right now it doesn't even save scum from having to lynch an extra player

and this is ON TOP of it being Deas's literal only read worth pushing, and that basically every nightkilled player either argued with nom significantly or wanted her dead, AND that nom CANNOT PUT TOWN-LOOKING EFFORT INTO THIS GAME TO LITERALLY SAVE HER LIFE

like what the actual fuck you guys

[Gammagooey]

And for kuribo and Firebringer and everyone else hanging around in the background with a metaphorical dick in your hand

Maybe you forgot or didn't notice but I ALSO townread nomnom for how she played in the beginning of the game

But after going back she had said herself that those types of arguments aren't alignment indicative of her, and she has been dodging putting any effort into actually scumhunting for literal days now and again it's really hard to see how you all are staring past it when it seems very likely to me that her lack of effort has stopped being an issue for scum and started to be part of the intended result given that she now has literally been handed a vengekill by scum when a missed shot by nom doesn't even prevent them from having to lynch an additional town player.

Spoiler: NOM NAI POSTS

If you're scum I'm really gonna call you disgusting to be fair nomnom

I know you think I'm disgusting as either alignment right now but being called disgusting by me is some kind of historic event because I rarely have a problem with people

if you're town this is just like...ok to be fair, it could be worse.

I've done this before as scum I won't lie but as I said the last time that happened, the frustration happens as both alignments. I just hate stupidity like this.

Yeah we get it, you're town, now can you play the game[/size]

I get letting her pass up but this isn't some kind of lock town tell or anything so back off on that

up to vote elems now?

I was thinking elems is a best lynch anyway

I really don't care at this point, sorting nom will be a task I'll put off for later in this game. Unfortunately I think this is really town indicative.

I'm not going to lock town this, it's just I really don't want to consider nom doing this as scum right now.

Unfortunately?

Also I've done this as scum too. NAI.

[Gammagooey]

But really does NOBODY else look at nom suddenly becoming vengeful because of a scum action and think 'Oh, that's pretty clearly b/c nom is scum and they want to give her a vengeful on the way out'

Hey tell me more about this statement

Looking back at it the flavor isn't as scum-indicative as I thought it was (my first thought was that the 'anonymous sources' were brietbart-esque people making up the weird shit about saddles & regina king riding people like horses and that's possible but it could also just be weird flavor of another type)

But also there have been no town players that have flipped with their own individual abilities yet including Beyonce, and 'magazine writer' abilities don't really seem to fit into anyone but scum or the writers camp, of which Anka has said that it's likely a scum action and Almost voting nom means that he probably isn't jumping to claim to have given a likely scum player a vengekill for shits and giggles.

[Gammagooey]

I did mention in my hood that I thought I wanted to go FL yesterday just because a lot of what he says is just plain odd.

what's odd about it and why is it more likely to come from scum than town in your opinion?

I think I wouldn't do justice to this question if I was to answer it now, so let me come back to this question when I have a clear mind

<literally nothing about flavor leaf between here>

just discuss your reads with other ppl, but I guess it's hard to discuss reads when you have none and you're only generating useless discussion

oh hey how bout that

[Gammagooey]

It is relevant considering I am literally conftown and that you are removing someone conftown from the game just for a shot in the dark!!!!
This is what scums want. This is why they gave me that venge shot. Use your brain pls.

pedit: not it's not playing with one less confirmed town player is bad, jsut straight up bad

you are not even remotely close to confirmed town and you're a decent enough player to know it instead of spouting this utter horseshit while refusing to actually go into details on any of your reads

you know

like scum who don't want to give town any potential advantage once they flip would do

[Gammagooey]

It is relevant considering I am literally conftown and that you are removing someone conftown from the game just for a shot in the dark!!!!
This is what scums want. This is why they gave me that venge shot. Use your brain pls.

pedit: not it's not playing with one less confirmed town player is bad, jsut straight up bad

you are not even remotely close to confirmed town and you're a decent enough player to know it instead of spouting this utter horseshit while refusing to actually go into details on any of your reads

you know

like scum who don't want to give town any potential advantage once they flip would do

Tell me what kind of scum makes a move that gives town an incentive to lynch them

I'll be waiting

The kind that thinks they're a likely lynch anyway and can get an extra advantage by doing so

I did it in my last scum game by hammering a mason day 1 and then daykilling a town player who was softclaiming an investigation on one of my scumbuddies

[Gammagooey]

I did mention in my hood that I thought I wanted to go FL yesterday just because a lot of what he says is just plain odd.

what's odd about it and why is it more likely to come from scum than town in your opinion?

I think I wouldn't do justice to this question if I was to answer it now, so let me come back to this question when I have a clear mind

<literally nothing about flavor leaf between here>

just discuss your reads with other ppl, but I guess it's hard to discuss reads when you have none and you're only generating useless discussion

oh hey how bout that

[Gammagooey]

Gamma are you considering changing your vote if nom provides reads? It doesn’t seem like it given your previous stances. If you just wanna think about who nom is shooting that’s kinda a moot point. If nom is scum it doesn’t matter. If nom is town it leaves scum sweating and only so much room they can work around.

I think it’d be better talking about your own reads to others. The way nom is playing today kinda makes it so people don’t wanna change there vote (even if this isn’t the intent) and that’s not so bad.

So gamma, where are you at right now? Who would you want nom to shoot?

If I think the reads look genuine then I'd change it

her town reads NOT looking genuine was the entire reason I changed my read on her yesterday and her refusing to go into any detail on them just makes me more certain that she'd rather shut up and shoot the towniest/most-threatening player to scum rather than actually attempt to explain her reads and go into detail on how she's viewing individual people to try to prevent her own lynch.

My strongest scumread aside from nom at the moment is Almost, but that's very largely because I'm expecting nom to flip scum and I think the way that he interacted with nom yesterday & left his vote to kuribo & didn't want to lynch in the fire/nom neighborhood feels scum-motivated to me on a nom-scum flip

If nom actually flipped town I guess I'd want her to shoot Firebringer? Actually I guess if nom is town I'd just want her to shoot in NOT {pant, Anka, MariaR, me}, but frankly if nom plays this petty as town (which she hasn't in the one recent town game of hers I went over a bit) then I would expect she would actively avoid following my advice given that I'm pushing her this hard.

[Gammagooey]

If nom actually flipped town I guess I'd want her to shoot Firebringer?

I wanna go over this a little because it's been puzzling me. If Nom is town and as anyone should be able to tell I think she is. Why does a team with !scum firebringer remove him from the hood? Because this clearly wasn't from town or it'd be said. Why give town a free venge kill? That leads into another point.

Theoretically, if nom is town then there's a possible reason to kick fire-scum out of it b/c that eliminates a lot of suspicion on Fire with a nom-lynch and her shooting someone else, esp. if fire butters up nom and tries to avoid the shot

I don't think that's actually the case though thinking about it more tbf, nom-town probably makes more sense with something like DEB/Almost/??? scum

but Again, I'm pretty confident that the one thing scum don't do in this situation is give nom-town a free shot that doesn't even let scum lynch fewer people to win
because even yesterday nom was willing to lynch basically anyone aside from herself, including encouraging a 1v1 between two of her town reads, and assuming that scum are actively sabotaging their chances of winning by giving town free vig shots instead of playing intelligently seems impossibly naive.

[Gammagooey]

hi

I've been keeping up for the most part (and also had a 4 paragraph phone post at lunch that got obliterated so I'm probably just going to recreate that for the most part)

I don't see pant as likely scum AT ALL

I don't really understand why most people are townreading nom - I will say that I think if you're town/scumreading ANYONE for something like 'the wagons have been weird' without having a particular scummy player in mind pushing for/against them I sincerely think that's a garbage way to try to read anyone - there's a fair chance that there's only 3 scum in the game, and even if it is 4 people tend to way overestimate the amount of actual pushing+pulling scum do compared to town just fucking around and shooting themselves in the foot

If someone wants to try to convince me that DEB is more likely scum than nom I'm willing to listen but I don't feel like that's the case, and if ya'll want DEB dead I feel like there's been enough people that have said they've wanted it for ya'll to make it happen without me if that's what you really want

I'm probably not going to be around much more, if at all tonight, but I was thinking of rereading EP and giving my thoughts on him since he was coming up as a scumread from someone earlier and I thought his late d3 posts were good but haven't really gone in depth into him recently so I might do that tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

@EP - DEB already said we made Ank loved

Hey Ank, I’ve got a message from Math

Spoiler:

This is still possible, don’t give up. Don’t play into their hands, Scum WANTS you demoralized.
I agree full heartedly, you have been our leader, don’t leave us.

Btw, I wanna bring something iffy up that I’m thinking about.
So Chenn was the kill last night, and guess who wanted to use our power to make Chenn loved?
Gamma said they wanted to make Chenn loved, which, I wasn’t necessarily against. But I wanted to make Ank loved. Now, I made my small case and Gamma said they’d vote Ank along with me. Once I saw the kill flip I got to thinking. IF Gamma was scum, wouldn’t wanting Chenn loved right before he gets killed make sense? This would effectively render our group power useless for the night.
Also, if Chenn was so widely townread, what’s the point in wanting to use our group loved shot on him? He was not going to be wagoned/lynched.
I’m not outright calling gamma scum, but I feel very suspicious rn. What do y’all think?

[Gammagooey]

I have a feeling making me loved is going to have that same effect you thought it would have on DV if you got it off on him lol

I doubt that a lot tbh

stop overreacting to like 3 votes and turn the pessimism dial down

DEB snitching on Gamma all game, and Gamma being completely upset having to deal with DEB in general is the highlight of this game tbh

I mean it's maybe better than being in a hyper-poster neighborhood but yeah

I was pretty disappointed when I realized that everyone gets a neighborhood and the two people I get to talk to were volxen and DEB and neither of them seemed to want to play the game

I wasn't ever told it afaik

PM the mod
I very much doubt DEB changes his vote to make you loved regardless of his alignment and I'm 99% sure I sent mine in for you so odds are very high that they forgot to PM it to you

[Gammagooey]

yeah I changed it before night deadline and FL claimed it yesterday before either of me/DEB had claimed what our power was I'm pretty sure

[Gammagooey]

here's a fun thought exercise

why does scum!nom ever commute me regardless of my alignment?

because scum know that commute doesn't really do anything if they know who it's going on and you've been one of the most pro-active people in the game so it's good for townpoints

Also I thought I would have slightly more to say but after seeing the last two pages I really don't want to deal with this game atm so instead please enjoy this picture of my dog

Spoiler: DOG

[Gammagooey]

it's quite amazing how easily my interest in this game fades

is it tho

no

I think DEB is similar here to D&D where he was cult leader.
VOTE: DEB

you should know that literally no-one is going to deep-dive him in a 500 page game for you

why/in what way is he similar
DETAILS man

[Gammagooey]

fuckin' lazy mods not bothering to do votecounts whenever the game is actually active and needs them
current votecount:

Ankamius (3): EspressoPatronum, MariaR, kuribo
nomnomnom (2): Gammagooey, DEB
Dr Easy Bake (2): panthaleon, davesaz
panth (2): nomnomnom, Flavor Leaf
Flavor Leaf (1): Firebringer


Not Voting (2): Almost50, Ankamius

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 2/16 at 11:59PM Eastern.

earlier votecount (DEB wagon):

Dr Easy Bake (5): kuribo, MariaR, panthaleon, Flavor Leaf, davesaz
nomnomnom (2): Gammagooey, DEB
MariaR (1): Almost50
Flavor Leaf (1): Firebringer
kuribo (1): Ankamius

Not Voting (3): Flavor Leaf, nomnomnom, EspressoPatronum

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 2/16 at 11:59PM Eastern.

[Gammagooey]

I finally did some rereading but I don't have a ton of time to post before work, though also I apparently missed a recent chunk of posting of like 9 pages of FL and nom and firebringer and ank yesterday that I still haven't gone over in the actual order it happened so weeeee

I'm not ULTRA confident in it but I've liked EP's posts in the past two game days - stuff like this
viewtopic.php?p=11547437#p11547437
and
viewtopic.php?p=11566818#p11566818

feel genuine to me and like he's legit trying to get his scum reads lynched

Kuribo's nom read also feels genuine to me (in that I very much think he believes it) to the point where I REALLY think a nom-scum flip means that kuribo is town

-------------------

Also, I'll at least be actually caught up by lateish tonight, but if ya'll wouldn't mind I could really use a reset of just people restating why they're voting who they are with like 2 sentences of why they think X is scum - this game is really difficult to parse and I could use the help in trying to understand what's going on in people's heads a little better.

[Gammagooey]

The game suddenly makes a lot of sense mechanically when you assume scum can't use an action or kill the same night you vote in the neighborhood ability, doesn't it.

no

it's a group vote that does an ability that's has the potential to be blocked by another group vote ability and presumably nothing else

how would that make sense with scum having to abstain from voting for basically no reason except to make their night action planning overly complex

[Gammagooey]

Because then you can have 2 scum in a hood and or it doesn't necessarily count as scum having a kill, a neighborhood ability, and extra actions against 5 hoods?

2 scum in a hood is fine regardless

the counterplay to 2 scum in a hood is lynching the scum if they do scummy things with hood powers wowwww

also as a heads up Gay Mafia II had what was basically an UNLIMITED SCUM GOVERNOR (could only govern each person once as the only restriction) so if the SK ever died mafia could literally just govern everyone and get two kills for every lynch until the governor died so mayyyybe don't assume that Reck and UT care about being on the razor's edge of game balance (and no I still have not stopped telling Reck how bad that was whenever mafia game balance comes up when I see him IRL)

[Gammagooey]

Ok and there's every list mod but one potentially reviewing this game

Do you think that they wouldn't notice something like this

?
I mean yeah they didn't put in another unlimited scum governor but my point is that Reck particularly is not the type to lab out every possible interaction of "well if scum do this and this and town lynch here then that's very good/very bad and we should balance around that" as long as it doesn't completely break the game (which no neighborhood combo would because a roleblocker neighborhood also exists)

There's also the fact that two scum in one hood means scum have one less hood they have vote knowledge of to play around (say by not targeting a doctor or commuter's target with a kill or knowing a fully town group's LMS ability)

like the amount of scum in a neighborhood is just a non-issue in regards to balancing the game

[Gammagooey]

lynching nom when there's one scum left is optimal regardless

That's not what you think at beginning of the day hahahaha

You are REALLY bad at this lmao

I am suddenly scum okay lol

Ank you're really bad at this

This looks faked as all hell

I feel like nom and kuribo like hard outed so this game should actually be a joke to solve after they both flip

still no explanation about why I am scum lol

Ank do you realize how bad this looks

nom trying to emulate good townie behavior by pushing on 'something scummy' after she did LITERALLY THE SAME DAMN THING when I tried to push her for why she was townreading people and scumreading flavor leaf yesterday & today

@MariaR why does an Ank scum flip make me town and FL scum?

Interactions vote pushes etc. I don’t think you/Ank are SvS.

Gobble suggests we lynch MariaR or lynch nom+venge MariaR to test it. A MariaR scum flip strongly suggests FL is scum.

See, this is the kind of stuff that makes me take 2 steps back from my read on you. Because it’s clear you’re a smart guy EP, yet the conclusions you come to are... what? The ‘slip’ in question isn’t even a slip. Because I was already voting Ank so I can’t move the vote. You were already voting Ank too, so it doesn’t make any sense? Plus, I think you’re the only one who believes this theory when you have others telling you to drop it.

When Ank finally starts getting real pressure you unvote and turn this ‘slip’ into a big deal. Do you see where I run into an issue with all this?

look at this post from Maria
it's a GOOD post
everyone should make posts like this post

[Gammagooey]

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be voting Ank today

Flavor I'ma assume that you're town for a minute

I very, very strongly think that nom is scum for the way she played the end of yesterday & today, and she's been doing what feels like nothing except pushing hard on two people that would be weird as Fuck to be scum with her given the beginning of the day (in Ank's case) and their play (in Fire's case) and I still think she's just openly playing without any regard to whether or not she looks scummy or gets lynched later now that she has the vengeful ability.

I also think that assuming that you're town, she's basically been trying to tie herself to you as hard as she possibly fucking can for when she eventually flips.

[Gammagooey]

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be voting Ank today

And I'm going to expand on this a little more

Atm I think pretty much the only person I'd be willing to lynch that ISN'T nom without it being a day or so before deadline (which is in 5 days btw) is probably dave. I went over his iso for a while and for someone who voted volxen with this:

VOTE: Volxen
There are other players who fit my favorite diagnosis of "not scumhunting" but this seems to be the one we're most likely to lynch.

it really feels like he fits that himself with what feels like a lazy neighborhood based DV vote, a DEB vote for him being lurky, and very little else since the readslist I bugged him for a literal month ago, and him fitting pretty well with nom-scum. I doubt he'll actually get lynched today because people are always afraid of lynching PRs, but that's what I think of him, and literally everyone else in the game I don't want to risk lynching over nom.

As for ank, I really don't think she kills chenn and doubt she kills volpe (and both of those kills point way more to nom scum than Ank hey look at that), putting in all that effort to flip a nom read instead of just arguing for it based on good play would be stupid (and if she's scum it can LITERALLY blow up in her face by nom shooting her anyway and Ank is competent enough to not give someone as chaotic as nom a vengekill if nom is town and Ank is scum in the first place).

And while I'm at it frankly the only thing I legit dislike about Ank's play atm is the focus on solving the entire game over individual scummy players, and mayyybe I could be convinced with enough effort that she was possible scum if nom-scum wasn't looming over the game like the damn MOON but even then it'd only be with people showing that she actively plays this way as scum and NOT as town which I think is very unlikely to be the case.

[Gammagooey]

FB by the way it makes total sense to give me a vig shot if both you and Ank are scum because you are not under heavy suspicion after lynching me yesterday and I have more chances to get it wrong if I both read you town, which I said I was.

You even asked me who I wanted to lynch in the ho-

...I think I got it. HAHAHA. IT'S SO OBVIOUS! HOLY SHIT

FIREBRINGER ASKED ME WHO I WANTED TO LYNCH IN THE HOOD THEN I GET A VENGE SHOT AND GET PUSHED.

HOLY SHIT THAT EUREKA MOMENT, HE ALSO SAID HE FORGOT ABOUT OUR COMMUTING ACTION!!!!!

and before I go to bed
this is LITERAL PERFORMANCE
This is a dramatic rendition on par with a 16 year old imitating House MD

Every single time Ank wagon gets some steam, this game spikes in activity.

dum

Who’s scum with her?

again, assuming you're town
dave + 1 or 2 of {Almost/DEB/EP}

[Gammagooey]

look at this post from Maria
it's a GOOD post
everyone should make posts like this post

@MariaR why does an Ank scum flip make me town and FL scum?

Interactions vote pushes etc. I don’t think you/Ank are SvS.

Gobble suggests we lynch MariaR or lynch nom+venge MariaR to test it. A MariaR scum flip strongly suggests FL is scum.

See, this is the kind of stuff that makes me take 2 steps back from my read on you. Because it’s clear you’re a smart guy EP, yet the conclusions you come to are... what? The ‘slip’ in question isn’t even a slip. Because I was already voting Ank so I can’t move the vote. You were already voting Ank too, so it doesn’t make any sense? Plus, I think you’re the only one who believes this theory when you have others telling you to drop it.

When Ank finally starts getting real pressure you unvote and turn this ‘slip’ into a big deal. Do you see where I run into an issue with all this?

@gooey: There. I made one exactly like Maria's. How you like me now?

as Deas would say
I can feel your halo

[Gammagooey]

I do not guarantee this is accurate but I think it is
and the mods still won't post a votecount every day so I am mod now

nomnomnom (3): Gammagooey, DEB, EspressoPatronum
Ankamius (2): kuribo, MariaR
Dr Easy Bake (2): panthaleon, davesaz
panthaleon (1): Flavor Leaf
kuribo (1): Ankamius
Firebringer (1): nomnomnom

Not Voting (1): Almost50

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline's like the 15th/16th or something

[Gammagooey]

DEB can you go over some people and make a readslist or something?

[Gammagooey]

stilllll don't see why people are assuming nom is terrible town instead of scum that got legitimately irritated at people scumreading her for shitty reasons day 1 and is now going full aggro to get a mislynch today

[Gammagooey]

well have fun voting panth with FL and probably nom when she sees another viable wagon that isn't her and then whining about nobody else wanting to lynch him in 2 days when you aren't bothering to argue why he's scum at all

[Gammagooey]

kuribo can you chill?

like honestly leave the thread and come back when you're feeling a little better

I kinda did it for most of this past weekend cause I was feeling like garbage and it helped quite a lot

[Gammagooey]

thanks friend

hope you find your kitty and feel better soon

[Gammagooey]

but Again, I'm pretty confident that the one thing scum don't do in this situation is give nom-town a free shot that doesn't even let scum lynch fewer people to win
because even yesterday nom was willing to lynch basically anyone aside from herself, including encouraging a 1v1 between two of her town reads, and assuming that scum are actively sabotaging their chances of winning by giving town free vig shots instead of playing intelligently seems impossibly naive.

I will admit, this had given me pause before. Because it does seem odd and somewhat stupid to give this line of reasoning. However, it isn't possible with the way this game has gone. Plus, I don't think nom herself takes the line she does as scum here.

Hey Maria, you said this a while back - can you explain what you meant with nom's 'line' here?

[Gammagooey]

As I said, of Ank flips Town I am NOT going to shoot anyone. If she flips Scum I am

still considering my options

.

Can you explain this for me?

I'm probably biased in that I'm scumreading you already but I frankly hate the idea that the 'smart' choice when we'd already be on the brink of losing the game is by not even trying to use what may very well be the only actual power role town gets sole control over in the game. I admittedly haven't done the math on shooting anyone but it just feels like giving up to avoid being blamed for something potentially going wrong instead of actually taking a risk to win the game.

[Gammagooey]

Surely you decided on Ank over nom (or any other wagon contender) for a reason.

Nom lynch is bad mechanically, there are better ways / times of handling that slot if scum.

personally I'd prefer to ignore mechanical arguments against lynching scum, since lynching scum outweighs every other mechanical benefit available from not lynching scum

but you do you

[Gammagooey]

I admittedly haven't done the math on shooting anyone but it just feels like..

lots of words

thanks, that actually makes me feel a decent bit better about you

I don't think taking the game to LYLO opposed to MYLO is that bad in exchange for another entire shot at hitting scum (and secretly I did calculate that far but not any farther), but seeing that you're assuming nom-town gets lynched tomorrow and shoots someone makes not shooting from your perspective make more sense

aaaaaaaalso while we're on the subject why are you town reading nom? you've mentioned it a lot recently but I don't see the actual reason why you townread her (at least in the 2nd page of your iso)

[Gammagooey]

Ank I don't want to be mean but I really don't care about the doomsaying you're doing or the mechanical reason not to lynch nom that dave's going on about

I don't have a STRONG town read on kuribo but I can pretty easily see him shitting on your reads and solves as either alignment

If you want him lynched I'd advise putting the effort into going over his d1-d3 play and why you think that comes from scum rather than showing off a pretty solve that doesnt really point to one player in particular.

[Gammagooey]

don't think the rage is fake

if you wanna argue that the discrediting is more likely to come scum along with other stuff he's done then sure argue it, my point is that a coherent and preferably concise but at least relatively readable case against kuribo is going to be a lot more likely to actually get you what you seem to want then throwing out solves and waiting for people to care about them.

and on a completely unrelated note wtf is happening with the forum links
Board Index › Queue › Completed Open Games › Mafia Games › The Road to Rome › Completed Newbie Games › Completed Mini Normal Games › Completed Mini Theme Games › Completed Large Theme Games › Completed Marathon Games › Completed Blitz Games › Team Mafia 2020 › Completed Signups › Blitz Games Trial (Closed) › Team Mafia 2020

[Gammagooey]

because I didn't want to play the game over the weekend, most of my play this day was and really still is focused on getting nom lynched if that's at all possible, I do not have infinite time to comment on everything, and because you wanting kuribo dead over nom looks like it happened Sunday/Monday but you've had literally 80 more posts since then bouncing around between other ideas and talking about other shit that is sometimes related to wanting kuribo dead and sometimes tangentially related and sometimes not at all.

[Gammagooey]

and to be clear

I don't want to kuribo to be the lynch today

but if you want it and you're that convinced of him being scum, you pretty clearly need to actually convince the people who are town of it too, and I think that actually focusing on who specifically you want lynched instead of constantly reacting to everything going on is a)more likely to do that and b)gives people a way to say why they disagree with you and your points without it being lost in an ocean of other posts

[Gammagooey]

Spoiler: Almost50 posts about nom

I don't think nomnom/volxen is SvS therefore if volxen is ever the scum slot in that duality, I don't want to get it wrong because I feel like today lynch is going to determine a lot of what happens in day 3. I want the replacement to actually play the game. Replace him with someone that can be minimally active at least, we've enough low posters in this large game.

I like your talk more than your action!! If you truly believe in what you say above, then why the hell are you voting nomnom already? Has the replacement for Colxen even been introduced yet, let alone post?? Have you decided that when they do step in they're going to be townie enough for you to decide nom is the scum of the two? I don't get the vote AND the talk in the very same post!!

Nomnom or FB should be the lynch today.

If not either of them, let’s go Chennis.

FL, are you scum? I mean, if you are I white flag. I know I won't be able to lynch you.

If you're Town though, tell me how chenn looks worse than Ank here. Also tell me what the fuck was nom thinking killing Volpe of all people, and especially so when he had said to lynch her next if he died in the PT they both sharem which FB has just reported?

I mean, judging by THIS GAME I could see GIF/FB as a scum slot, but the NSG flip makes it a bit less likely. I mean, how likely is it for a team to roll 2 scum roles anyway? What's the probability?

Hey almost, you're townreading nom right? I skimmed your iso a bit and saw it seemed like it was mostly from the volpe nightkill - can you explain that for me or if you've got other reasons for it lay that out for me? I'd agree that volpe isn't likely what nom-scum would want if you ignored the rest of a scumteam existing, but he was also one of the more highly townread people in the game at the time too.

Well, by tone.. by stances.. by her anger.. I mean, everything points to her being town here. I even searched her previous games and linked a scum game in our PT, and asked Ank to show me what similarities she sees in nom's play here to that game, and I don't think I got an answer from Ank.

Game I linked

Can someone please show me similarities to nom's play in that game and her play in this game?

So I put some in a spoiler, but these are generally why you're townreading nom, right Almost?

Here's another scum game she played within the same month of that where I think she shows genuine irritation as scum (a lot of minor irritation stuff on the 2nd page of her iso, and this earlier in the game viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80157&user_select%5 ... &start=200

GUYS STOP FUCKING ASKING ME TRIVIAL QUESTIONS FUCK YOU ALL
I DONT WANNA DISCUSS ABOUT THIS GAME JUST LEAVE ME ALONE
by the way here's a trivia check about illiteracy

There's also one of her more recent town games here: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=81123 where she got lynched earlier but didn't go completely berserk over it. I read over a good chunk of her iso there around when I changed my read on her day 3 (of this game) so I don't have a perfect recollection of it now, but it looks like she was wrong about the d1 mafia flip but seemed genuinely helpful and tried a lot harder there than she has been for most of the game here.

I don't think it's hard to change up scum play from game to game - I don't mind if you don't go DEEP into the town game I linked b/c frankly I think meta is mostly garbage anyway, but if you could at least skim over her iso there and tell me if that's what you expected nom-town play to look like (and if you still think nom is town here given that, why you think those match up) I'd appreciate it.

[Gammagooey]

words

"I tried doing some meta and my reasoning is that nom MAYBE CHANGED HER PLAYSTYLE FROM THOSE GAMES"?
Also comparing 2 of my games isn't good enough to get a grip of my town and scumgame and people should realize already that my mental state is irrelevant to what role PM I have

if you add (specifically from her first scum game that Almost was talking about to the 2nd scum game I linked) to that first sentence then yeah pretty much

thanks for the summary nom

[Gammagooey]

Surely you decided on Ank over nom (or any other wagon contender) for a reason.

Nom lynch is bad mechanically, there are better ways / times of handling that slot if scum.

personally I'd prefer to ignore mechanical arguments against lynching scum, since lynching scum outweighs every other mechanical benefit available from not lynching scum

but you do you

Nope, you're completely wrong.
Lynching scum with a venge allows that scum to kill a townie

who could otherwise be protected

.
For the scum with a venge, the timing is critical.
If you have a bullet available (Hello A50) then you don't lynch the scum with a venge at all.
Mechanics totally matters, and trying to brush it off is one of the reasons I can't put you in the top tier.

oh no the precious top tier whatever will i do without it

i know ignore a scum-given incentive to not lynch scum when I'm not confident in another player being scum to risk lynching them aside from you

town doesn't win by precisely killing every scum player on the perfect optimal day & way to do it

town just wins by lynching all the damn scum

[Gammagooey]

Explain lynching dave? I can do that sometime tonight if ya want

you never answered this btw

but Again, I'm pretty confident that the one thing scum don't do in this situation is give nom-town a free shot that doesn't even let scum lynch fewer people to win
because even yesterday nom was willing to lynch basically anyone aside from herself, including encouraging a 1v1 between two of her town reads, and assuming that scum are actively sabotaging their chances of winning by giving town free vig shots instead of playing intelligently seems impossibly naive.

I will admit, this had given me pause before. Because it does seem odd and somewhat stupid to give this line of reasoning. However, it isn't possible with the way this game has gone. Plus, I don't think nom herself takes the line she does as scum here.

Hey Maria, you said this a while back - can you explain what you meant with nom's 'line' here?

and is there any reason why you aren't caring about Deas's opinion on nom now that he's lynched while you say that you'll give Ank's reads more credence if she flips town?

[Gammagooey]

The line being basically giving up and holding there cards close like Nom was doing. It wasn't doing her any favors and was the correct town play. I didn't see why nom would do that as scum though when it just gives her more reason to die.

I disagree about it being the right town play but that's not worth getting into

Shutting the hell up about your reads as scum if you think you're going to get lynched anyway is usually just good play to prevent people from getting any decent associative tells from you on your way out
Like I don't shut up completely but I make sure to not post anything remotely helpful to solving the game if I've done something as scum that should condemn me to death given a remotely competent playerlist: viewtopic.php?p=10462691#p10462691

[Gammagooey]

there's some minor things I could pick at but for the most part there's just two big reasons why I dave is scum

If DV is scum then the scumteam already knows this, and if not then they'll think it's investigative given the discussion.
The really unfortunate part is that it's not an investigative, it's an inventor that gives things with investigative powers.
So you've fucked town out of N2 and N3 attempts, and we now have to try to give the invention N3 to act on N4 and not have any potential result until D5.

In case anyone gives a shit, I play PR's of this type as scummy as I can without getting lynched, so that I don't end up scum target number one.
I finally get it right and nobody forces me to over crumb/soft to the point that scum guesses it anyway, and one of my arch nemesis decides to yolo RB anyway.
That's just great. Thanks a lot.

This is the first - I think scum are a LOT more likely than town to try to excuse their previous play from being scummy when they think they have a genuine opportunity to do so, and I don't think that dave being part of a 3-person PR is a legit reason for him to play intentionally scummy in the early game. The mod in Day 1 basically confirmed that EVERYONE was in some sort of PR neighborhood, and it just feels wrong that he'd think that him being scummy/not and specifically dying or not dying would mean that the neighborhood power would be neutered somehow - either scum was already in his hood and knew whether or not killing him was worth it given that they knew the power role, or they weren't and dave had another two town players that would use the neighborhood powers if he died.

The second thing would have been that dave sat on DV for the entire day yesterday without doing much, but going back it's actually more fine than I remembered? It's still sparse but there are points where dave pokes at people to vote/think of DV as scum when I previously thought he had just sat on his vote and talked about other things.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ugh

I guess I'll reread some more tomorrow and try to settle my opinion of him soon

this game is dumb and i feel dumber being in it

cya in the morning

[Gammagooey]

EC is still telling me to vote nom

VOTE: nomnomnom

thank you thank you thank you

@EP - nom/DEB/FL.


I've bounced between reading over dave+your+bits of other people's isos tonight and playing fire emblem and I still gut dislike how he's played (especially in regards to today - I get the logic behind not wanting to share his reads and I can't really fault it aside from me thinking dayplay and being town enough to not get lynched is more important and I hate people giving themselves a 'reason' to play scummy) but I do see why DV town-read him despite (and probably partly because of) dave's push on DV after going over dave & DV's posts from that day. dave's #3922 (viewtopic.php?p=11528111#p11528111) does acknowledge that bad luck/targeting is another possibility rather than just DV-scum, he does push DV as scum a little to another player later that day (though not much) and as much as I dislike it I think it's pretty plausible to be coming from town.
Having said that, if he doesn't have reads and contribute game-day tomorrow I will burn his metaphorical house down.

[Gammagooey]

Current votecount

nomnomnom (4): Gammagooey, DEB, EspressoPatronum, Ankamius
Ankamius (4): kuribo, MariaR, Almost50, nomnomnom
Flavor Leaf (1): Firebringer
Firebringer (1): nomnomnom
panthaleon (2): davesaz, Flavor Leaf
kuribo (1) panthaleon

Not Voting (2): Ankamius, Flavor Leaf

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 2/16 at 11:59PM Eastern.
davesaz is V/LA through 2/16.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Almost50, do you genuinely think Ank is the most likely person here to be scum? I think that the paniced/exhausted attempts to solve the game from her look pretty fine and I feel that her heart's at the right place, and that she's pretty unsettled by how much pointing and effort from her has not been affecteting a very slow gamestate. I don't really think her bouncing like she has been recently with reads/solves is actually scum-indicative and if you think so I could use a quick explanation of it from you if you really think that makes her scum.

I pretty clearly want nom dead and though mayyybe I can get that by dicking around and waiting until deadline, I think you've looked town recently and I'd like it if we could actually agree on a wagon. I've done a pretty damn decent amount of reading since the start of this RL week and as much as I want DEB to be town because it'd be nice for my personal vision of the gamestate, I also don't think he's done anything solidly enough to not want his lynch.

so I guess what I'm saying is:
a)if you think Ank is 100% who you want dead today plz explain it to me
b)if it's not 100% I would personally very much like you to vote whichever of DEB/nom you think is more likely scum

[Gammagooey]

Hey Almost50, do you genuinely think Ank is the most likely person here to be scum?

No. I think DEB is, but no one's voting him now and every time someone did the wagon froze.

I think Ank has a good chance to flip red though, because I don't recall her being so flip floppy as Town. She's usually too hard headed (although she's also usually wrong), but here she has literally FoS'd everyone still alive and 7 of those were done over 2 pages of the game, so I think she's trying to create a smoke screen for when she does flip so we can't easily link her to her buddy.

kk, thanks
if you're not going to be around tomorrow (it's deadline then at 11:59pm) I encourage you to vote DEB then.

HEYYYYYY Maria who do you currently prefer and why between nomnom/DEB/Ank since nomnom and DEB both seem like doable good wagons and you're currently on Ank?

[Gammagooey]

I'm not talking about voting I'm asking for a list of people that said they would vote DEB
it's for analysis

imagine if people had to actually put in the effort to do their own analysis and make decisions based off of it

what a tragic world that would be

[Gammagooey]

My dudes I'm not scum. But like w/e this game hasn't been fun, the last time I posted I got screamed down by kuribo, and I'm coming off of frustrating real life nonsense.

VOTE: kuribo

This game had been a shameful display of incomprehensibly poor and anti town play. Whoever you town folks are, I am disappointed.

hey panth

I give for your consideration the following wagons: nomnom & DEB. which do you want dead more? (with reason(s) would be a nice bonus)

[Gammagooey]

I'm not talking about voting I'm asking for a list of people that said they would vote DEB
it's for analysis

imagine if people had to actually put in the effort to do their own analysis and make decisions based off of it

what a tragic world that would be

Sorry not sorry that I don't have oodles of free time to come play on the internet.

get shrugged at
and maybe consider playing in less than 3 games at once if you're town here

buuuut while you're here, wanna elaborate on what parts of nom's play you think are scummy or give any other reads you have?

[Gammagooey]

Did you know if you make the votecounts you get to be a secret doublevoter? cool stuff right

Current votecount

nomnomnom (5): Gammagooey, DEB, EspressoPatronum, Ankamius, Firebringer
Dr Easy Bake (3) kuribo, Almost50, Gammagooey
panthaleon (2): davesaz, Flavor Leaf
Ankamius (1): MariaR
kuribo (1) panthaleon

Not Voting (1): nomnomnom

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 2/16 at 11:59PM Eastern.
davesaz is V/LA through 2/16.

[Gammagooey]

that's uh not what I expected to see when I got back

at least the day's over with a lynch I guess? If nom selfhammered just to take the vengeshot as scum I'd be shocked so I guess I'm hoping for a Maria-scum and getting some damn rest from this game

[Gammagooey]

I'm gonna leave a crumb for my neighborhood's LMS ability here in the case that I die tonight so that if DEB is scum he'll at least have to get creative if he wants to fakeclaim what it is later

If he claims that he targeted the scummiest player in his opinion and has a not useful investigation result on him he's lying - that's not how it works and/or how you should use the role, and if you look at the starting setup of the entire game given all the other LMS claims and flips so far, something should make sense.

cya Maria, thanks for being a voice of sanity through the game

[Gammagooey]

I voted for EP to be loved because I very very much doubt Maria decided to start pushing on a scumbuddy on page 7 and continue scumreading them and legitimately pushing on him to die for literally the entire game after that.

also agree that dave should give some results and I'll have more to say tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

I could have anywhere between 1 and 3 actions left, and I'm absolutely not going to reveal anything.

I don't particularly care about the failed/missed action on night 3 after thinking about it so if you want to keep that a secret you're welcome to imo

I also think it's pretty reasonable for scum to no-kill last night assuming you're town, but I would personally your action last night to be outed so we have a better idea of your thought process and what you thought scum were likely to do last night so that people can get a better read on your alignment. If you want to fight about it being the right play then fight about it and I can maybe be convinced but considering that you contributed basically nothing in terms of reads yesterday I feel like it's fair.

However, you ABSOLUTELY need to give reads and actually try to get scum lynched today. Dayplay is more important than nightplay in general, today as the first day with a flipped scum especially, and if you try to be cheeky with 'oh well not playing the game will optimize my night action' again I will 100% try to get you lynched for it.

[Gammagooey]

Hey EP, can you paraphrase the post with FL asking for Maria's vote on Ank in your QT for me? (ask the mod before posting it if you're worried about it being too close to exact or anything like that)

Given that Maria flipped scum I think it's worth looking into a little more

[Gammagooey]

@nom if you think Ank and FB are scum, you should vote Ank today. We can free up A50 to vig, which forces scum to pick between dave, the doctors, and A50.

@EP - this was I think right before you posted about FL's potential slip post - were you talking with FL about voting elsewhere in the group topic or earlier that real life day that you remember? I'm leaning towards it making more sense that Maria was considering voting FL and pushing it (as she had indicated she might in her in-thread posts around then) and FL-scum wanting her to stay on Ank for now, but you're the one with the actual context to go along with it - you seemed pretty focused on Ank atm and I don't see why FL asks you to be on one of Ank/Maria there when you're already on them unless there is some indication of indecision or consideration of changing your vote there that FL would have seen.

[Gammagooey]

I'm going to break one of my favorite personal guidelines here. ^**

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Spoiler: **

That guideline being, always follow the mechanically optimum path

You mentioned you townread FL independent of his role before Almost and my (and EP's) posts about FL

Can you give a brief post on why you did and which posts since then changed your mind?

Also don't quicklynch FL before Ank gets to do the posting she wanted to do but since we've still got 10 players and 6 to lynch that's not an immediate issue

[Gammagooey]

Current votecount

Flavor Leaf(2): Almost50, davesaz
davesaz (1): EspressoPatronum

Not Voting (7): Everybody Else
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is eventually.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Given EP's post this page (#6798) this page you can consider my vote on FL too once Ank posts and everybody checks in. It'd be nice if DEB could like actually show up to play and look town one of these days but I don't think it's ever going to happen. panth would be nice to hear opinions from too.

[Gammagooey]

You mentioned you townread FL independent of his role before Almost and my (and EP's) posts about FL

Can you give a brief post on why you did and which posts since then changed your mind?

FL's specific behavior toward me this game has fluctuated between near-buddying and scumreads in a way that felt like natural progression.

I'd appreciate an example of this but there's no rush if you're busy for the next few hours

[Gammagooey]

What do you think about my observation that panth hasn’t really had reads most of the game? On track? Missing something? Immaterial? Something else?

I'd say he's had more than you based on memory

I definitely had him as 'not fucking with him because he's lynching nom-scum with me' for his early play in days 3 & 4, esp. considering how he talked to her on replacing in, and now I think unlike DEB he'll participate and be relatively readable today & tomorrow so I'm not terribly concerned about him at the moment? He is probably the #1 player who I should re-read over though.

[Gammagooey]

I’m the reason you’re conftown and even EP’s not on me. Stop.

Eh, there's a couple explanations of a no-kill that aren't the doc save on me, even assuming that both you and EP targeted me with it instead of just EP

frankly though I think the context of what EP was doing at the time making your ask for him weird at best + Maria flipping scum is pretty damning

especially considering that how hard Maria pushed for EP to die the whole game makes EP very, very likely town and if you disagree with that I'd like to hear why.

[Gammagooey]

I'm heading to trivia in a bit after dog-walkin'

I'll see ya'll maybe late tonight, def. sometime tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

Still want to wait a bit longer for people to show up but might as well vote now since there's only one on FL atm

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

To anyone who hasn't shown up yet I encourage you to read my & EP's posts over the last day and enough of Maria's iso until you think that EP is as town as I think he is

[Gammagooey]

10

[Gammagooey]

I think flavor is town because I don’t think scum would give nom the gun when nom was wanting to shoot flavor

I don't think nom was particularly suspicious of Flavor at the end of d3/beginning of night 3, she was pushing on you primarily (from a quick skim)

[Gammagooey]

I think flavor is town because I don’t think scum would give nom the gun when nom was wanting to shoot flavor

I don't think nom was particularly suspicious of Flavor at the end of d3/beginning of night 3, she was pushing on you primarily (from a quick skim)

This is false.

It was a big topic of conversation yesterday about how I was the most likely venge shot too

no, it's not

she was pushing you mon jan 20th, day ended on the 31st - she pushed panth and DEB and Firebringer for most of the 2nd half of the day. She did mention that she thought you were being manipulative in the middle of that time period, and followed up by saying something like "now I'll be disappointed no matter what you flip".

[Gammagooey]

Also RC has a lot of words for this game and he says it’s Ank/Flavor and I just disagree. I can give u his arguments but I think both are town

I don't want all the RC words

But if he has a specific opinion on FL's QT comment I'd like to hear it - like does he think FL intentionally slipped to set up Ank for late-game (which is maybe like barely plausible but I don't believe it) or that he genuinely meant to say "EP you should vote Ank/Maria" even though EP was clearly both already voting Ank and intending to stay on it?

[Gammagooey]

The thing is, y’all are bringing this stuff up a day and a half too late, which shows you only started to care when you needed ammo for a mislynch somewhere.

so am i conf town or not

(I'm not but don't try to appeal to me saying that I am and then say shit like this after)

[Gammagooey]

I was hoping panth would stop in before I did my FEELINGS post but nows as good a time as any

I'm probably not going to go back and look up anything for this post in particular b/c I just want to get my gut thoughts out atm - if you strongly disagree with something I say and want to talk about it go for it

I think the game's been frankly kind of exhausting for most of the people playing it closely? I think it's pretty clear that in particular Ank and kuribo and Almost and I have dumped a lot of effort and emotion into the game regardless of our alignments.

I think that I personally have largely had mediocre reads at best so far, probably leaning towards just bad considering DV and nom's flips (even if I do get to harrumph and internally bitch about DV's only scum read for most of the game flipping town, but nom was town and both her and DV's lynch were probably more my fault than anyone's)

I think I should have looked harder at FL's potential slip when it was made, I shrugged it off as 'well Maria was already voting Ank so it doesn't make a ton of sense to be a slip' at the time without looking further into whether it made sense as a message actually directed at EP, and I don't think it does and if you take the time to look at the context around it from both Maria & EP then & what EP's said about it today I kind of fail to see how FL's explanation of it being directed at EP and who he should vote holds up in comparison to it being directed at Maria-scum who was considering changing her vote to FL at the time. And yes I know it's a pain to reread and this game has been a slog but it's worth the analysis from everyone.

I also think that the noise and speed of the game contributed a lot to that getting shrugged off and FL and Maria were largely responsible for how fast the posting was at the time, but I'd rather not bitch too much about it when I think it's my fault for missing it as much as anyone else's.

FL has been spamposting enormously in what I think is just him trying to draw the conversation to literally anything except the slip to EP because I genuinely don't think it's convincingly defendable as making more sense coming from town than scum by him

and lastly I want to go over my gut reads on people who aren't FL.
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EP is imo, VERY VERY clearly town based on how Maria treated him, Maria pushed him from the very beginning of day 1 in a way that I don't think she could back away from if EP ever became a semi-serious wagon and never let up on him through the entire game

Ank being scum with FL seems like frankly, a minor form of madness to me, I'm not going back to check atm but it felt like Maria and FL both pushed for her death genuinely, and Ank being the scum push of the day makes a lot of sense to me

I am looking this up to be specific- I asked DEB in literally the most 'please do this I will help you by finding what pages are relevant if you need me to' way I could think of to read over some of dave/maria/almost/EP and tell me what he thought in the CEO topic with a few real life days until deadline Day 4, and his response was (slightly paraphrased) I won't reread them unless I want to. I HATE the fact that he is not willing to put in fucking any relevant effort to the game, I don't think it feels town, and I think Almost has a point with Maria pushing on DEB when it was convenient but it felt like never really caring enough to actually advocate killing him when he did get wagoned when everyone got fed up with DEB doing nothing and he got to around L-2 or so.

I've been scumreading Almost for most of the game and I'm still a little paranoid of him but his posts yesterday and today have seemed very good, I can absolutely see him as town that got frustrated with the game and kind of settled into just being annoyed for a while until today

dave I still dislike - he had a really smug sounding comment about FL's slip when it happened, I think that his making a deal out of switching to FL about it not being 'optimal' feels like posturing and his comments about "I'm the closest thing to a cop" and "I'd never lynch someone in my position" are horseshit given that literally the entire game are in neighborhoods and there's no reason his would be immune from having scum in it aside from dumb out-guessing the mod theories about an investigation neighborhood

Fire I like more than at least Ank does and probably several other people, but I'm not terribly confident in it. He seems like he's trying to influence the game with who he thinks is scum and he's seemed worn down by the game like a lot of other people have been.

kuribo's kinda the same - he's BELIEVED in his town read on nom imo and his anger is not fake regardless of his alignment and he's been passionate and invested in the game and how it's been going.

panth I am taking a mulligan on until he shows up and I reread him because I haven't yet and I should.
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It just snowed today so I'm gonna go enjoy the winter atmosphere and get dinner and have hot chocolate and go enjoy myself, so I won't be back 'til tomorrow morning. Peace for now friends!

[Gammagooey]

I'm heading to trivia in a bit after dog-walkin'

I'll see ya'll maybe late tonight, def. sometime tomorrow

Can I see your dog again?

I did laugh pretty hard at Flavor's own ass being irresistible to himself so yes

Spoiler: dog pics

[Gammagooey]

abstaining's fine w/ me

[Gammagooey]

Gamma's day 6 to-do list

dave claims his results (dave you are not town enough to be cheeky about this any longer and I will fight about it)

DEB gets Titus/their team to do VCA AND gives his own personal thoughts on both the VCA and the points of the game they reference
(and I'd like some thoughts from everyone else too - this is the first day where it feels like we have a little breathing room since like d2 and what happens today will likely decide the game imo)

I give another rolecrumb in the case that we're not murdering DEB today

[Gammagooey]

I actually was willing to talk about some stuff in my hood with gamma over the night phase but he ignored me.

Oh yep I did

I was getting drunk with the mod & other friends back home Sat night so I missed you posting your one post there

N3 watched EP, no visits

Ok
Did you use any other powers any other nights, and if not why not?

[Gammagooey]

ok

if you are so concerned with how scary you look to scum that trying to play it optimally is more worth it than laying everything on the table to make sure people can actually read you and make sure you don't get mislynched

why in the fuck did you post this instead of just shutting the hell up and making scum wonder whether or not you still had a watcher shot and hopefully get the scum to no-kill to avoid getting caught last night?

Hey EP,

Hypothetically, what if I already watched the doctor I'm more townreading (the one not named FL) a couple nights ago? Advice for that case needs to be covered too. Hypothetically...

[Gammagooey]

Because at that point in time there were almost as many people voting me as scum.
I tol you asshats to shut the fuck up and you kept picking...

FL was at 4 votes, you were at 2 with one of them being FL, and you were voting Firebringer

so I don't really see the enormous two votes on you with one of them being obvscum that you weren't even voting at the time being terribly relevant

[Gammagooey]

like really if you can get into your thoughts for all of yesterday I'd appreciate it

you voted FL after saying something about there being a pattern in his behavior (which I assumed was based on Almost's post against FL, but I'm not completely sure and you seemed kind of curt about it), voted Fire after he voted you, which seemed to me like you just thought that both of them were scum

and you were threatened enough by both of them voting you, even though I think the gamestate pretty clearly indicated that a FL lynch was happening that day, that you hinted VERY strongly that you didn't have a watcher shot anymore...which did what exactly to help people think of you as town? Like what were you hoping would happen as a result of saying that?