Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Klick]

First

[Klick]

VOTE: Black

I had a vision that she was Mafia

[Klick]

V/LA for a day, Eastermeet

Wagon me harder scumducks

[Klick]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

You're probably town!

[Klick]

Firebringer town

[Klick]

Sorry Fire, I want to vote Dunn to help you sort him but I can't do mental gymnastics to warrant a vote even an early throw a way one...

VOTE: Klick

Dunn, 3 reads please?

Hello! Why are you voting me?

[Klick]

Shea feels kinda towny

[Klick]

Dunn reads town so far as well

[Klick]

Hello Feysal! You seem like an interesting player and I'm looking forward to playing with you

I've not read particularly carefully up to this point as I'm still on V/LA, but is there anyone so far that has made you feel that they are particularly likely to be town?

[Klick]

I’m gonna townbin Kuribo this early

Pretty good take

[Klick]

FB, Kuribo, Dunn and TSQ all seem town to me. I don't like Klick's ISO, most especially the re-entry from VLA.

I'm still on V/LA

[Klick]

Don't worry Black, I will give us significantly more time to play before catching you

[Klick]

I just can't help myself

[Klick]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

You're probably town!

super why?

This doesn't feel at all like the desired opening play for scum

[Klick]

Because people like you aren't going to like it!

[Klick]

Hi kuribo it's been a while, thanks for coming back from the depths of hell to play a relaxing game of Mafia with us

[Klick]

FB, Kuribo, Dunn and TSQ all seem town to me. I don't like Klick's ISO, most especially the re-entry from VLA.

I'm still on V/LA

Okay. But there's a clear 220 post gap after you announced V/LA, and you clearly made a re-entry with a few posts in a row, and they were bad. Responding with "I'm still on V/LA" is disingenuous at best.

What was bad about them?

[Klick]

FB, Kuribo, Dunn and TSQ all seem town to me. I don't like Klick's ISO, most especially the re-entry from VLA.

I'm still on V/LA

Okay. But there's a clear 220 post gap after you announced V/LA, and you clearly made a re-entry with a few posts in a row, and they were bad. Responding with "I'm still on V/LA" is disingenuous at best.

What was bad about them?

Rapid fire posting without substantive content, with a post asking why someone who was not voting you had a vote on you.

If you're interested in me clarifying any of my reads, you can just ask. I'm satisfied with the content I've provided thus far. It's better than the three posts you had up to this point, with two of them focusing on my level of content.

It was the second time Titus had placed a vote on me, it felt noteworthy.

[Klick]

Firebringer town

did you came out of vla just to drop this read? does this mean you're caught up?

No

Hello Feysal! You seem like an interesting player and I'm looking forward to playing with you

I've not read particularly carefully up to this point as I'm still on V/LA, but is there anyone so far that has made you feel that they are particularly likely to be town?

yeah this doesn't feel right you're either here or you're not. whats the point of reminding the v/la if you're dropping reads and responding? just to not take heat and steer stuff?

If you'd genuinely like an explanation, I've been at Eastermeet this weekend - literally on vacation with low access. I'm excited for this game and am eager to play, but I have been spending most of my time focusing on the meet I was at. There were a couple of points during the meet when I had some down time, in which I decided to check in on this on my phone with poor data reception. To be clear, V/LA does not mean 'you're either here or you're not'.

PEdit: I've given a few and I'm catching up on the rest now
Because I'm no longer V/LA :O

[Klick]

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

[Klick]

IDK, for my team at least I am just posting whatever I want to, and then my teammates give me feedback etc.

Same. I thought about assigning them cool colors and having them play though

Aureal: whew Black is so townie. Like unbelievably so

CSF: yeah I agree tbh, and she is so good at being town, idk why she thinks she's not

Rad: I like eggs

This team is wonderful all around

[Klick]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

[Klick]

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

Go on please.

It's not a very strongly formed thought
But the basic idea is that in Cosmos I felt like FA's approach was largely to question other people's takes as a means to develop her own view of the game and make it look genuine
It's different from a town approach in terms of motive for posting; the whole point of what FA was doing in Cosmos felt like it was to look town through having considered and nuanced takes that were developed by sort of hijacking other players' genuine thoughts and critiquing them
And here it feels very similar, I feel like almost everything FA has done has been a critique of another original perspective with only a couple of reads originating from something she has brought up herself

It all fits under this umbrella idea of 'I think FA wants to look town right now rather than actually doing town things'

[Klick]

DragonEater70
Titus
Dunnstral

Firebringer
kuribo
Thestatusquo

Black
BlueSnakelet
Feysal
Pink Ball
Save The Dragons

GuyInFreezer
Drixx

Frozen Angel

Is kind of where I'm at. Bella conflicts with me on Titus and GIF and doesn't think FA is particularly scummy.

[Klick]

Let's dive deeper. What reads feel sourced from FA? A sample that doesn't?

I felt it most strongly in her interaction with me. 336 particularly alerted me to this as a concept:

Because people like you aren't going to like it!

why do you think I disliked it? I just noted its existence. it doesn't give me any kind of info either way. that's why asked about what was behind the post in his thought process

I actually have more read on your tr on it than I have on the original read itself. (leaning toward the dislike category)

pedit: his going after blue for the titus thingy was what I called try harding on page 2 IMO I don't care about his rp

It's high-detail, specifically contradicts assumptions I made about her perspective, and develops what appears to be a nuanced take on both myself and DragonEater without doing the heavy lifting. I remember her doing something that made me feel very similar to this in Cosmos. Let me go find it

viewtopic.php?p=13538654#p13538654

I'd like to quote that post but I can't quite make it happen, idk whether I just am not able to quote from locked threads at all or if it's a mobile-specific issue

It's not an exact match to what I'm describing here, but basically I made an assumption based on VCA, and FA used it as a means of discrediting what I was saying while developing her own read on me as well as the situation without adding much genuine original thought outside of detailed analysis of my own thought.
The same sort of thing happened in her early-game argument with STD, in their conversation about 'shading'. This is probably a better example of it, it happened in like the first 10ish pages of that game.

341 feels similar. Lots of critical thought in a very focused way towards specific details of Feysal's 97. She gives the appearance of a nuanced perspective but it's limited to what she could derive from 97 itself, and I think the projection of nuance could be intentional.


I actually fairly like FA's last two posts as counterexamples of this - they contain clear general conclusions based on the things she's been talking about. The add-on in 361 a minute and a half later feels kind of like legitimate thought. But I want more of that from her.

[Klick]

I can see that as a possibility LLD
I know 'it feels genuine' is an unsatisfying follow-up but it's also where my head is at

I also think if I'm wrong on Titus it's specifically a read that will sort itself out with time

[Klick]

Firebringer town

did you came out of vla just to drop this read? does this mean you're caught up?

No

Hello Feysal! You seem like an interesting player and I'm looking forward to playing with you

I've not read particularly carefully up to this point as I'm still on V/LA, but is there anyone so far that has made you feel that they are particularly likely to be town?

yeah this doesn't feel right you're either here or you're not. whats the point of reminding the v/la if you're dropping reads and responding? just to not take heat and steer stuff?

If you'd genuinely like an explanation, I've been at Eastermeet this weekend - literally on vacation with low access. I'm excited for this game and am eager to play, but I have been spending most of my time focusing on the meet I was at. There were a couple of points during the meet when I had some down time, in which I decided to check in on this on my phone with poor data reception. To be clear, V/LA does not mean 'you're either here or you're not'.

PEdit: I've given a few and I'm catching up on the rest now
Because I'm no longer V/LA :O

vla actually means I cant check and post in game so don't prod me but fair enough.

From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though

Go on please.

It's not a very strongly formed thought
But the basic idea is that in Cosmos I felt like

FA's approach was largely to question other people's takes as a means to develop her own view of the game and make it look genuine

It's different from a town approach in terms of motive for posting; the whole point of what FA was doing in Cosmos felt like it was to look town through having considered and nuanced takes that were developed by sort of hijacking other players' genuine thoughts and critiquing them
And here it feels very similar, I feel like almost everything FA has done has been a critique of another original perspective with only a couple of reads originating from something she has brought up herself

It all fits under this umbrella idea of 'I think FA wants to look town right now rather than actually doing town things'

I don't like to self meta but since you brought it up here it goes

I ask a lot of questions to find a thought process error in what people say at different times. Someone is portraying they feel like this about something at some point, when asked in 3 different manners about it they say something that has a conflict with what they portrayed first = they were faking that initial though and they don't own it.

if you find a conflicting pattern of thought process you caught scum.

Whose reads are you accusing me of copying here exactly? I don't think anyone else was pushing you for vla (actually drixx wrote a line for that too that I remember) and not vla, or sorted the 3 way of dun FB freysel like me upon that skim?

so why dropping that I'm copying people read without actually saying who and what you think I'm copying to "look genuine"?

also it was a catch up so its pretty much copying what everyone else was saying/asking them questions about them and some raw ideas I had on top of my head while skimming it

I have to go to work in a minute, but two quick questions:

Can you give me an link or two of times you successfully found scum with this technique?
Can you give me an example or two of times you thought you caught scum with this technique, but were wrong?

[Klick]

You think this is distinct from their town game? I've never played with FA at all I don't think and I understand the general point you're making but I think I'm missing why this isn't also what their town game would look like?

I don't actually know FA's town meta so it's an incomplete meta read, I might go and get a more full picture of how she plays when I have more time

Just conceptually it's the same idea that made me scumread her in Cosmos, and I'm getting the same feeling about her posting here as I was with her posting there

But then also I'm much more confident definitively finding town than finding scum

[Klick]

For some reason this game is hard to get into for me.
Multiple attempts of reading back all went "do I really want to do this rn"
I will attempt again tomorrow.

This is a sensible explanation for why I'm feeling bad about you currently
Bella has you as her strongest townread so I could see her picking up on things I'm not seeing because you seem different from when I've seen you as town
Looking forward to hearing more from you

[Klick]

This doesn't feel like a town anxiety ig.

Like i feel like a town mindset would be it's early so I'll just throw what i think out there and if it's underformed or not explained well that's fine.

It feels like a scum mindset to worry about whether ones reads are good enough or justified well enough.

Do you have examples of other games where you didn't post reads because you didn't really have time to explain them?

I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiw
It comes more from a place of feeling like I'll be ignored if I don't present my most pressing thoughts appropriately/just trying to find the most effective time and means of saying what I want to say

[Klick]

Also Klick, your readlist is so interesting to me. Why am I in first place? And why is GiF so low?

I think your early approach to this game feels natural and not really influenced at all by a potential scumteam. You're focusing on things in an open carefree way that I think you'd be hesitant to focus on as scum.

I expanded a bit on GIF a couple of posts ago, but essentially I think GIF is a player who is very good at being obvtown when town and so far I'm not seeing it.

[Klick]

I'm skimming atm and won't be properly around for at least another hour or so
But I am not on V/LA anymore as of last night when I posted a lot, so wagon away if that's the only thing stopping you

[Klick]

I had a few things I wanted to say but today has been a terrible day and I'm not in the mood.

[Klick]

I have talked about dragon millions of times already. Perhaps try reading my posts?

Also I'm starting to get to the point where i need more from klick. I know there was vla and then a bad day but the result of that is that we've gotten very little.

Understandable
I think the FA talk was kind of annoying for me as well because it was a long drawn out conversation over something that I ultimately didn't feel particularly strong about when I'd rather just continue discussing broader observations

I'm probably going to skip a lot of the much earlier dialogues that were going on and just keep solving
If anyone really wants an answer to something they asked me previously they can repeat it

[Klick]

Fwiw Bella is like super convinced Black is town
I'm not putting much thought to Black because I think she'll be a free solve as the game goes on but I can see it

[Klick]

I'm currently reading it

[Klick]

Overall STD feels fairly towny, his thoughts feel like natural thoughts to have/give at this point and his conclusions are similar to mine where it matters

I think he has you and Titus sensibly low whereas I'm probably too quick to have both of you as high town as I do

[Klick]

I'll respond to your Feysal post properly when I've got that kind of time TSQ

[Klick]

1000 boom

[Klick]

why does xof like drixx?

Xof likes Drixx because of his posts naturally lead themselves to being accountable, particularly 955.

Fwiw I believe this is a take xof would have as town in this game

[Klick]

I've never read something quite as tiring as Thestatusquo's and Drixx's case against Black. As I slowly read it, trying my best to extract meaning out from their drawn out sentences, the concepts I absorbed gradually began to bounce uselessly against the back of my head.

Fortunately, I managed to piece together what I believe to be the base of their case,

that Black is behaving differently from what her town play usually is

.

(If there's more to it than that, feel free to restate it. I'm not plunging into the depths of the last few pages ever again.

I do have a rebuttal: I played exactly one game with Black where she was town. It is a recent game, it literally concluded right when Team Mafia was starting, so I believe it to be a accurate representation of what her town play currently is. In the early game of that game, Black play was really similar to what she's displaying now. She was already playing a lot safer than the behavior described.

I believe you believe this

[Klick]

If theres one thing that annoys me in games of mafia its people who are like oh I disagree about a thing but by the way I haven't actually really read the thing.

It's a scum tactic and if you're town its just incredibly annoying. Do your homework.

I disagree with this take fundamentally
People should only engage at the level that lets them enjoy the game as long as that level also allows them to draw some sort of conclusions that they believe in

[Klick]

Of the top of my head:
I townread Dunnstral. I had already listed this as a "Aisa" read, but it has been upgraded to a "me" read.

I would like to hear why both of you townread Dunn

[Klick]

About the 3rd tier, DK said Klick is a pretty good wagon to pursue because they seem pretty flaccid and not exuding any of their towniness.

I don’t think 'exuding towniness' on Day 1 is particularly a tenet of my town game. Ask Koba if they can remember a Day 1 where I was obvious town. The only experiences I can remember with them as town are in games where they repeatedly called me likely scum until they died.

[Klick]

On the other hand, 'flaccid' is a good description of most D1s from me. Particularly in Larges. Koba is probably using Hollow Knight as a recent reference, but that's an exception and not the norm.

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Save The Dragons
Firebringer

BlueSnakelet
Thestatusquo
Black
kuribo

Feysal

Pink Ball
GuyInFreezer
Drixx

Frozen Angel

Pink Ball is Bella's scumread that she has repeated a few times, I'm null on him

I'm going to put quite a lot of effort into getting what I feel is an accurate read on Feysal at some point but that point is not now

[Klick]

That gap was not intentional but it is accurate I'm going to keep it

[Klick]

Yes look at me being safe with my nine townreads

[Klick]

Feysal, I know it has been some time since you've played, but what would you describe as the difference between your approach to the game generally as town vs scum? What are you doing in your approach to this game that is fundamentally different to what you would be doing as scum? As you're someone who ultimately knows the actual answer to this question, why are you town?

[Klick]

FA's content all around feels soulless. She is demonstrating quite a bit of thought but I don't feel like she believes any of it further than her words express.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

[Klick]

I have a weak suspicion of Klick. I've played at least one game with him which I remember well, where he was scum. He gave out reads that were very light on reasons, including one town read on a partner, and it was that association tell that got his slot executed. The case he posted on Frozen Angel is also plausible coming from town, but I can't quite shake the feeling it might have been a good scum push.

I'm curious what game this was, or at least when it was. My play has changed very very significantly in the last 3-4 years compared to how it was before that time. I largely attribute this to growing up.

[Klick]

Klicks response to me is also weird because i think it actually is a Hallmark of scum to have too many town reads.

I think most conceptions of what 'scum' in the general do are insufficiently substantiated

PEdit:

Klick do you think you're the kind of scum player who struggles to find town reads or struggles to find scum reads, generally speaking?

Your offhand response to me is really sticking in my brain.

As either alignment I find it easier to find and express townreads than scumreads.

[Klick]

In contrast, I find it easier to express scumreads when I'm scum than when I'm town. Because I know I have to push something that's false when I'm scum, whereas I am rarely confident enough that someone is scum to properly push them when I'm town.

[Klick]

The thing is that is exactly why I said your read list felt safe to me.

You have a lot of people in the town bin and a few people in the scum bin who other people have put in the work to scum read already. It didn't seem like you were interested in breaking new ground at all and it felt like you weren't trying to ruffle any feathers.

Ask me about some of them, I have reasons for believing what I believe. Any seem interesting to you?

[Klick]

@klick what does my content being soulless even mean?!

you can ask me questions about any of my reads if you believe I don't believe it

Bahahaha I essentially just said the same thing to TSQ.

I don't have confidence in my ability to get meaningful conclusions for myself based on asking you questions about your reads. I don't think it would help me read you accurately.

I feel like you're putting a lot of brain energy into the thread, but I don't see evidence of belief and I don't think asking you about it will help me see that.

[Klick]

@klick what does my content being soulless even mean?!

you can ask me questions about any of my reads if you believe I don't believe it

Bahahaha I essentially just said the same thing to TSQ.

I don't have confidence in my ability to get meaningful conclusions for myself based on asking you questions about your reads. I don't think it would help me read you accurately.

I feel like you're putting a lot of brain energy into the thread, but I don't see evidence of belief and I don't think asking you about it will help me see that.

so you think I'm actually thinking and evaluating stuff and you think that is more from my scum!me?

This makes no sense

I responded to both your meta read and and am doing concentrated work right now to sort the game and you just drop a vote on me cause I'm "soulless"? and now you're saying you don't even engage with me about my reads to evaluate if they are real or not but wanna still accuse they arent?

You have already defined your metric of what you believe the difference between town and scum is
I believe you intentionally play to appear as though you're doing the town stuff when you're scum, yes
And that would involve going through a lot of mental processes to show your work on how much you're thinking about who is town and scum

Is it unreasonable to say you'd basically approach the game like that if you were scum here?

[Klick]

Like if you wanna scum read me and accuse me of being calculative scum, go ahead tell me what reads I'm faking, whats my motivation and what thinking process comes from a scum mind set on my behalf

But you're refusing to engage with me about those

but you can't just call me soulless and drop a vote on me "for not believing those reads when you're not even trying to engage with me about them. That is wrong

Sure I can, if I believe it correlates with you being scum
What basis do you have for saying I can't do that?

[Klick]

the reason for the wagon on me is cause klick linked something from this game to a multiball game we played together (in which I was actually also scumhunting) saying why am I asking too many questions or how I scum hunt

You wait until you don't like what I'm saying to mention the multiball thing. Did it only just occur to you that that game was multiball, or have you been saving that fact for later?

[Klick]

This feels like legitimate frustrated FA here. I can say this from bitter experience and the fact that I'm fairly sure FA no longer considers me a friend.

Why is it significant that FA is frustrated, legitimate or otherwise?

[Klick]

The emotion seems real tbh.

I agree but do you think it's frustrated townie real or caught scum real?

This is a better version of my last post

[Klick]

I'll need to walk off, eat dinner and cool down. will be back later

pedit: read my iso posts/at least the conclusion parts in them that I separated with ----

I did that so no one can complain about them being walls to just ignore them.

I read all of them

[Klick]

the reason for the wagon on me is cause klick linked something from this game to a multiball game we played together (in which I was actually also scumhunting) saying why am I asking too many questions or how I scum hunt

You wait until you don't like what I'm saying to mention the multiball thing. Did it only just occur to you that that game was multiball, or have you been saving that fact for later?

This feels slightly disingenuous.

Pretty sure FA mentioned that pretty early on.

Let's dive deeper. What reads feel sourced from FA? A sample that doesn't?

Let's dive deeper. What reads feel sourced from FA? A sample that doesn't?

I felt it most strongly in her interaction with me. 336 particularly alerted me to this as a concept:

Because people like you aren't going to like it!

why do you think I disliked it? I just noted its existence. it doesn't give me any kind of info either way. that's why asked about what was behind the post in his thought process

I actually have more read on your tr on it than I have on the original read itself. (leaning toward the dislike category)

pedit: his going after blue for the titus thingy was what I called try harding on page 2 IMO I don't care about his rp

It's high-detail, specifically contradicts assumptions I made about her perspective, and develops what appears to be a nuanced take on both myself and DragonEater without doing the heavy lifting. I remember her doing something that made me feel very similar to this in Cosmos. Let me go find it

viewtopic.php?p=13538654#p13538654

I'd like to quote that post but I can't quite make it happen, idk whether I just am not able to quote from locked threads at all or if it's a mobile-specific issue

It's not an exact match to what I'm describing here, but basically I made an assumption based on VCA, and FA used it as a means of discrediting what I was saying while developing her own read on me as well as the situation without adding much genuine original thought outside of detailed analysis of my own thought.
The same sort of thing happened in her early-game argument with STD, in their conversation about 'shading'. This is probably a better example of it, it happened in like the first 10ish pages of that game.

341 feels similar. Lots of critical thought in a very focused way towards specific details of Feysal's 97. She gives the appearance of a nuanced perspective but it's limited to what she could derive from 97 itself, and I think the projection of nuance could be intentional.


I actually fairly like FA's last two posts as counterexamples of this - they contain clear general conclusions based on the things she's been talking about. The add-on in 361 a minute and a half later feels kind of like legitimate thought. But I want more of that from her.

Dunn, I literally just said that. You think town!LLD uses her precious words to restate what I already said?

VOTE: Dunn

@Klick, Thanks for the response. Will try to review in an hour

yeah i actually like klick trying to meta me with that. seems like he really tried for finding references for what he was saying actually tbh even though that is not me copying anyone or dropping tones of questions. It actually is me trying to not jump to a conclusion and see how stuff are in a scum game. as town though I also analyze and drop questions and I don't make conclusions till I have em. have you ever seen me play in a game as town?

btw for the record in that other game I was not trying to discredit you. I was trying to show that I'm analyzing what you said (which I would have same analysis as town still reading that post) and to drop questions that would fake how I actually try and find things that have a conflict with a town perspective but also for real analyzing/questioning you. Your VCA conclusion there felt like it could be coming from an informed perspective there. that game was multiball and I genuinely was scum hunting.

@titus where did you go after an hour. why saying nothing about klick homework?

I missed that to be fair
I don't think it changes the essence of how odd her tone shift looks to me

[Klick]

the reason for the wagon on me is cause klick linked something from this game to a multiball game we played together (in which I was actually also scumhunting) saying why am I asking too many questions or how I scum hunt

You wait until you don't like what I'm saying to mention the multiball thing. Did it only just occur to you that that game was multiball, or have you been saving that fact for later?

I said that fact on my first post explaining your meta read. or did you even read my response to you then?

I did read your response to me, I just forgot

[Klick]

do you read? do you really?

Yes

[Klick]

Let's get more to the point

I wanna believe I'm a good scum player. I would definitely try and appear solving when scum too

whats you're point?

Why do you keep pushing me to read your logical thought process that you spent hours crafting as a means of determining whether you're town or scum, when you know that's not actually an effective means of solving for your alignment?

[Klick]

Let's get more to the point

I wanna believe I'm a good scum player. I would definitely try and appear solving when scum too

whats you're point?

Why do you keep pushing me to read your logical thought process that you spent hours crafting as a means of determining whether you're town or scum, when you know that's not actually an effective means of solving for your alignment?

I don't care about your read on me per say. If you wanted to engage with me and fix that read I was up for it and I proved it with how I approached you when you dropped the meta read.

but I wont let you say I don't believe my read on dragon eater/drixx or the rest as a way to discredit my efforts just so you can justify your lazy shitty vote on me.

I'm not interested in the person I suspect 'fixing' my read through careful crafting of logical arguments that they spend hours making sure they can justify. That doesn't correlate with your alignment. You could do that as town or as scum.

Is that wrong?

[Klick]

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about

[Klick]

If i wanted to rage on town on my wagon for being lazy I would rage on titus who literally never dropped my name more than 3 times in entire game and none of them were actually about me and more about my wagon.

I don't give a shit if you just want to drop a random vote that you or no one else will get anything out of. I'm here to find scum and to respond to people who think I'm scum and fix their impression if they engage with me.

The reason I raged at you and thestatusqueue is the shining discredit of my efforts in such blatant way not cause you dropped a vote on me or scum read me and I stand by my justified rage till you actually decide to engage with my reads or take back your random shitty discrediting judgement of them

What should I do if I want to get an accurate read on you?

[Klick]

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

More generalities
These things can be applied to the person you're talking about

Ok but I'm trying to explain why I feel this way about a specific person? And why I think the emotion feeling real to me matters? Things that are generally true are not universally true that is a true statement but I do not think I am making that claim but generally trying to explain my background experience that is making me react in a certain way. Mafia is probabilistic and in fact you know this.

So what the fuck is this shit?

I think Mafia CAN be probabilistic but it's much more effective to avoid most probabilistic conclusions and basically treat it as non-probabilistic

This is probably why I often get lots of townreads and few scumreads!

Anyway that's not the point

What about FA makes you think the emotions being real is relevant to her alignment? Because I came to basically the opposite conclusion

[Klick]

Like what you are saying about what I'm saying can literally apply to anything, Klick. I could claim you saying the posting feels "soulless" is a generality in much the same way you are saying that I am saying that I think the emotion feels real to me and why that matters.

You keep tacitly acknowledging this when you say things like "this correlates or doesn't correlate to alignment."

I'm doing literally the exact same thing and trying to look at things that I think correlate to alignment and then explaining why I think they do.

You are then dismissing them in a way that feels incredibly hand waivy and shade-ing and I have a hard time figuring out why town you would do that? Do you not want me to correctly read FA for some reason?

I think my last post effectively responds to this post as well
If you think the general 'the emotion is real' talking points apply to FA specifically, why do you think that's the case?

[Klick]

I don't know

I never tried sorting a frozen angel in my life.

But you know better than anyone else the choices you make when you're town vs when you're scum. What do you do about making arguments that you KNOW aren't true when you're scum because you have to push falsehoods? What is authentic in your town game that you notice you're unable to replicate when you're scum? Etc. Etc.

Those things are way more relevant to sorting your alignment than getting into pointless arguments about the weeds.

But that is still you dodging my questions regarding what you accused me of.

what is me being soulless and how you determined it? what reads do you believe I posted and why you think I don't believe them?

I don't know it's a feeling I had reading your posts and I haven't deeply analysed it. When I read your analysis of your reads it is missing a level of *belief* that is observable in your posting, because it's all logical arguments and only logical arguments without your own assumptions or perspective. It's a holistic point that applies to all of your deeply-exained reads and not the nitty-gritty details that you want to discuss.

[Klick]

I'm not ruling out FA scum, I am presenting a data point.

You feel a lot more certain than I feel like I can possibly be.

What makes you think I'm certain?
(I'm not, far from it)

[Klick]

Because I think town is generally way more likely to react like this and feel real while doing so than scum is and I don't have any specific experience with FA to suggest they are a special case. You can call that a generality but that is how I scum hunt.

My impression is that Frozen Angel starts reacting in a more emotionally-charged way when she feels like someone isn't engaging with her how she wants them to engage with her. I think she does this as either alignment.

[Klick]

I'm not ruling out FA scum, I am presenting a data point.

You feel a lot more certain than I feel like I can possibly be.

What makes you think I'm certain?
(I'm not, far from it)

Because of how you're engaging with me, mostly.

It feels like you want to discredit the whole way I approach scum hunting as a means for shutting down discussion on why FA feels town to me.

Like you've now typed a lot of words on this and they basically boil down to (for me) "my conclusions are better than yours."

Which seems like a really strange way to have a discussion on a difference of opinion.

If your conclusion is 'FA is town for showing genuine-looking emotion', then yes that's something that I'm interested in discrediting.

If it's not, then I'm not sure what is.

[Klick]

sure since you're asking me to talk about myself again

as town I'm concerned about two things:
- finding scum by analyzing everything when I can and by getting as much as I can out of people with questions
- responding to any concerns players have about me being town

as scum I would play to fake the two attidues above. like anyone else playing. In general as scum I wouldn't care if I was about to case my partner if they are doing something I can find scummy and I would defend against people scum reading me by either discrediting their cases or pushing them back.

in general I ask a lot, I engage a lot, and I sort better when I'm directly involved in a convo with someone when town and I play fearless when scum. my scum hunting is based on patterns of actions/reactions not singular action/reaction judgements.

take out whatever you want from that or double check with people who actually sorted me before in different games.

and in general I don't drop a hypothesis about someone being scum to scum read them or town read them. I put 2+2s together and see if it all in one picture makes sense as town or scum. calling my reads soulless cause I'm evaluating patterns of actions logically is ... oki?

but going that far for calling them soulless?!

You think I logically evaluated dragoneater and logically think they are scum without believing it. But my logic holds? if it does why you think they are town and my read is faked by a scum me rather than a town with a different perspective/playstyle than you?

UNVOTE:

Good stuff. I'll read back but this seems both genuine and pretty consistent with what you've been doing so far. I think you're likely town.

[Klick]

The main point of the last few pages of posting for me has been to get a better read on FA and I feel like I've accomplished that

[Klick]

By far the thing I don't like in the whole thing is that it doesn't feel to me like klick is interested in hearing me in any way and is much more interested in shutting me down.

I do see what you're saying about the fact that town players generally are much more effective at showing genuine emotion than scum players. But I think it's important to try to identify cases where that doesn't apply and I believe FA is one of them.

For now I wouldn't mind tabling this discussion though and letting others digest, unless you want me to respond further to anything specific?

[Klick]

The main point of the last few pages of posting for me has been to get a better read on FA and I feel like I've accomplished that

so you didn't think I don't believe my reads and was reaction testing?

After the discussion we had I think there's no easily-discernable way to tell whether you believe your reads or not because you do the exact same thing to establish your reads as town or scum

At the very least people should absolutely not be townreading you for the seeming veracity of your reads

[Klick]

Drixx's posts during that whole exchange are kinda towny?

[Klick]

I'm working under the assumption that FA and Shea are both town along with myself

And under those assumptions I feel like scum doesn't really want to be involved with our interaction without a pretty good reason

[Klick]

Were they? I don't think the comment about FA not faking rage was relevant as I think people were asking about whether FA would be upset as scum. I don't know what +1ing to kuribo being ragey was supposed to accomplish either other than trying to be relevant

I agree with drixx's post about DE's progression on FB and Dunn being weird but I don't think it's particularly AI

If the motive was to be relevant as scum it was kind of a poor way of doing that

I like that Drixx repeated essentially the same thing about FA again, it made me feel like he actually cared about getting his point across

I think Drixx cares about the things Drixx cares about and doesn't care what you think about them and I think that's actually towny rather than trying to look towny

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

[Klick]

VOTE: Pink Ball

Bella's probably just right here
His interaction around that conversation was poor optics

[Klick]

I've never read something quite as tiring as Thestatusquo's and Drixx's case against Black. As I slowly read it, trying my best to extract meaning out from their drawn out sentences, the concepts I absorbed gradually began to bounce uselessly against the back of my head.

Fortunately, I managed to piece together what I believe to be the base of their case,

that Black is behaving differently from what her town play usually is

.

(If there's more to it than that, feel free to restate it. I'm not plunging into the depths of the last few pages ever again.

I do have a rebuttal: I played exactly one game with Black where she was town. It is a recent game, it literally concluded right when Team Mafia was starting, so I believe it to be a accurate representation of what her town play currently is. In the early game of that game, Black play was really similar to what she's displaying now. She was already playing a lot safer than the behavior described.

I believe you believe this

I think this was a pretty nonsensical post to choose to make as Mafia

It's not much but like I really like this post

[Klick]

Maybe I'm wrong! Do you think BlueSnakelet is scum?

[Klick]

Some townreads:

• Black:
  I played one game with her where she was town. I don't see much of a difference here.
  
• Feysal:
  An unusual game like this is bound to be breakable in some way. I townread Feysal for trying to break it.
  
• Firebringer:
  For their roleplaying efforts, they gained a free townread for the remainder of Day 1.
  
• Dunnstral and Titus:
  These reads are a courtesy of Aisa. If you don't like it, voice your complaints to her (she will not hear it

I also think this is believable and displays quite a bit of confidence

[Klick]

The fight between Klick and FA was needlessly mean.

Since it's now been sufficiently clarified that this was specifically @me: I both don't feel like it was particularly mean, and feel like it produced quite a lot of readable content.

- FA actually looks town for actually alignment-indicative reasons
- TSQ came off as rather towny in that whole exchange
- Black engaged in a towny way
- Pink Ball awkwardly avoided the whole thing and talked about easier topics instead
- Drixx went from scummy to towny

And I think FA will be fine.

[Klick]

Can you tell me why I took a huge dip in your reads I'm curious

My initial reaction to your posting early on was 'yeah that's about right for town!STD' and now I'm wondering if that was going far too easy on you
Bella and I agree that your last few catchup takes on the game have been really surprisingly safe and it doesn't feel like your engagement with the thread pushes far past 'this is what I need to post to be in a decent position'

I'm skeptical that you're not town but it's still not anything substantial and I don't think pressuring you on it atm is the right way of going about it

There's another player further up in my reads that I've been feeling kinda similarly about but I don't want to alarm them so don't tell them pls ty

[Klick]

I also think this is believable and displays quite a bit of confidence

Ok but why is confidence in townreads a towntell? Isn't that the easiest thing for scum to do? I'm not disagreeing with your read but I don't understand this reason

I think that confidence often comes with significantly more substantiation when it's fake

[Klick]

It was mostly your reads lists and the content immediately preceding them

list is ordered

Firebringer
Black
Kuribo

DragonEater70
Klick
GuyInFreezer

Titus
Pink Ball
Dunnstral

Feysal
BlueSnakelet

Thestatusquo
Drixx
Frozen Angel

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Bella told me this looked safe really early on, and I was like 'yeah but STD's town'

But then we both felt that again the next time

roughly ordered

Black
Titus
Pink Ball
Klick
Thestatusquo
Dunnstral

Frozen Angel
Firebringer

Kuribo
GuyInFreezer
DragonEater70

Feysal

BlueSnakelet
Drixx

Drixx, Blue, Feysal, Dragon, GIF are literally like, the LHF in this game

I'm aware that my list is fairly similar to yours but that doesn't really take away from the point

[Klick]

It was mostly your reads lists and the content immediately preceding them

list is ordered

Firebringer
Black
Kuribo

DragonEater70
Klick
GuyInFreezer

Titus
Pink Ball
Dunnstral

Feysal
BlueSnakelet

Thestatusquo
Drixx
Frozen Angel

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Bella told me this looked safe really early on, and I was like 'yeah but STD's town'

But then we both felt that again the next time

roughly ordered

Black
Titus
Pink Ball
Klick
Thestatusquo
Dunnstral

Frozen Angel
Firebringer

Kuribo
GuyInFreezer
DragonEater70

Feysal

BlueSnakelet
Drixx

Drixx, Blue, Feysal, Dragon, GIF are literally like, the LHF in this game

I'm aware that my list is fairly similar to yours but that doesn't really take away from the point

No

Saying shea was scummy early was not safe

Drixx and feysal are not low hanging fruit maybe gif and snake are but do you really think there's no scum in low hanging fruit

Sorry that's messed up

I think saying Shea is scummy at literally any point in the game is probably a safe take and saying Shea is town is less safe
Feysal has been constantly in flux as a potential wagon throughout most of this game
Several people have stated vague suspicion of Drixx and I think I've only seen one townread on him other than my own

Those are absolutely safe takes?

[Klick]

[a very good post]

This is a very good post

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

I want to see DragonEater's response since he seems to be around now

[Klick]

but the reason why he got called out was because he looked like he tried to show confidence when he really wasn't, proving that confidence is a townie trait that good scumplayers know how to replicate

Yeah it

proves

that people scumread other players for not being confident / for faking confidence, it

doesn't actually prove anything

about my own meta and it's an

extremely

weird way to phrase a push against me.

I wasn't faking confidence this game (nor was I doing it in Demon Slayer tbh). I think you are latching onto

really

weird things that don't actually make

any

sense when you look at the broader picture.

Also this:

But maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe DragonEater is used to being called scum early game and this was a genuine reaction, as Shea pointed out.

Is you giving yourself the ability to backtrack if the wagon turns out sour. Which it is.


PB is saying they played a game with me recently. Well, I also played a game with Pink Ball recently. And in Demon Slayer they just had this

extremely strong

townvibe to their posts, which they

really

lack here.
My vote stays

100%

I feel whiplash from how much confidence you're now projecting into the thread

[Klick]

“Maybe I’m being paranoid, I’ll read DragonEater’s town games to see if he plays like this as town. Oh he doesn’t, he is scum all right”

I'm going to read over a few games myself and see if I reach the same sort of conclusion but as presented what you've said feels very solid

[Klick]

I'll fight to the death for Ircher, we're not doing Ircher

Kind of scary comment from someone who is having medical issues. O.O

Please do not fight to the literal death.

Then read between the lines, Ircher is town

You know what would be really towny? Delivering on the promises this post makes immediately instead of waiting about 3-4 game days to come up with a reason this is a thing

[Klick]

Your fishing expedition is noted

I heavily doubt you have anything worth heavily hinting at but not revealing and if you don't I'm going to make absolutely sure that you don't live for it when the time comes.

[Klick]

VOTE: DragonEater

[Klick]

Your fishing expedition is noted

I heavily doubt you have anything worth heavily hinting at but not revealing and if you don't I'm going to make absolutely sure that you don't live for it when the time comes.

Scum ass trying to piss me off into a fucking claim when anyone with half a god damn brain knows I sure as hell don't go to bat for lurkass buddies esp on day 1

You're right, I find it more likely that you'd fakeclaim something like this about town as scum

[Klick]

How many different ways do you want to call me scum without actually taking any action on it btw kuribo?

[Klick]

Your fishing expedition is noted

I heavily doubt you have anything worth heavily hinting at but not revealing and if you don't I'm going to make absolutely sure that you don't live for it when the time comes.

Scum ass trying to piss me off into a fucking claim when anyone with half a god damn brain knows I sure as hell don't go to bat for lurkass buddies esp on day 1

You're right, I find it more likely that you'd fakeclaim something like this about town as scum

Guess again scumfuck I've never once lied as town

I didn't say or imply you lie as town in any way

I was saying I suspect your claim comes from scum going to bat for a lurky towny

[Klick]

VOTE: klick

Tell me about it

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

[Klick]

Bella thinks you're really scummy Fen

[Klick]

why

She mentioned it like half an hour ago and I asked her why and now she's said she doesn't anymore ???

She said the answer is 'vibes'
And also said you won't like that answer

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

[Klick]

My responses are a bit reactionary and I don't have much of a problem with that

[Klick]

Anyway, bedtime with the children now

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

this is...not responsive to what I'm saying, in a way that feels kind of slimy.

I thought it was pretty clear that we're talking about STDs response to you asking him to talk to you about why he voted you.

in that context I was saying that its weird for you to expect more from STD than "vibes" when that is precisely how I would expect STD to answer the question you asked him like 90% of the time and I think you should also know that.

In this answer it feels like you're shifting the conversation to wanting more from STDs play IN GENERAL which was not what we were talking about, at least I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't what I was talking about.

It feels like you're trying to make my statement seem more unreasonable than it is? When I think the statement "its weird for you to say you expect more out of STD than vibes when you ask him about a vote" is completely reasonable.

These things are connected

If you want me to talk about only STD's response to me without considering my wider read on him, sure, that singular response from him is a fairly reasonable and expectable response to get from STD in this game

But I also want to talk about the fact that it contributes to a wider pattern of behaviour that, when put together as a whole, concerns me

Because that's what is ultimately actually making me feel weird about STD

As a broader point, I feel like you keep bringing up that you don't feel heard or responded to by me. Meanwhile, on my end, I feel like some of the things you're saying... aren't hugely relevant to me in terms of solving, in terms of their specificity? Like you're presumably asking me questions in order to get a better idea of what I am thinking about the game as a whole to get a better sense of your read on me. But when I do that, you are frustrated that I have not sufficiently given an answer to the specific thing that you asked about my thought process, when responding to just the original question doesn't feel like it gets to the meaningful bits of my thought process.

I don't feel like this wall of text conveys properly what I want it to but it's probably as good as I've got right now.

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

Pink Ball's case on DragonEater in 1524 is persuasive to me. It seems to be based on actual tendencies in DragonEater's way of playing, whereas my townread was based on assumptions of how DragonEater would play without knowing that much about him. I also respect Pink Ball's scumhunting ability quite a lot outside of the legitimacy that I feel the actual case has. I think that case is better than anything I've induced myself and is likely to be accurate.

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

we also had gif in the solve and then when there's a wagon on gif klick is nowhere to be found and votes the counter.

GIF has no content and a wagon on him doesn't accomplish anything. I want more from him and a wagon isn't going to impact that. I know nothing really significant about GIF's alignment but I think DragonEater is likely to be scum.

[Klick]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

It hasn't accomplished 'more content from GIF' which is the reason I'd join it at this stage

[Klick]

I don't really just want to let GIF off the hook is the thing. He actually started posting a bit of content when pressured.

It wasn't significant and we'd get much better from him later

I have quite a bit of respect for GIF's perspective as well

[Klick]

I've noticed a pattern this game where you keep trying to like...idk minimize the things I'm saying? And it's annoying me and also making me feel like you're trying to subtly derail my solving or at least stop people from listening to me. So you're probably picking up on that feeling from me. It's super contributing to me not being able to find you if you're town. And if you are town it makes me wonder if you just don't respect me very much as a player? That's insecurity but these are the thoughts that have been popping into my head every time I've interacted with you.

From my side, I've had a number of times come up where you've said something and it has felt tangential to what I have been engaged in and focused on and felt was important in the moment
Usually it has happened when I'm responding to more than one person at a time in real time and my main pull to the thread was the other conversation
I have a very one track mind and it's hard to fight against

I'm not intending to dismiss you, but I find it hard to engage when I don't understand the point or benefit of the conversation very well
And I realise that that runs contrary to your aims of trying to solve for me because if I got the point of your questions immediately that would make it easier for me to respond effectively if I were scum
But it's what's been happening on my end

I don't disrespect you as a player, but I feel like you're asking me a bunch of questions that I don't really understand. You're asking me to go deeper into things that I don't actually see a solving-based benefit to go deeper into and usually haven't actually thought about more deeply myself.

This probably doesn't fully respond in a satisfying way either but it's thoughts that I'm having.

PEdit: I can disagree with your perspective and express that disagreement and give my reasons for disagreeing with it. If that's what minimising you is, then I guess that's what I'm doing? You want to say things like 'Klick has GIF low on their reads but isn't joining the GIF wagon' and then when I contest the significance of joining the GIF wagon as justification for why I haven't joined the GIF wagon you say I'm minimising you

[Klick]

I ask questions about small things because the small places are where people usually make mistakes. I thought that your statement about STD was maybe setting him up to fail because I honestly can't think of a reason you would expect more than "idk man vibes bad" from him. It felt like a reaction test where you were trying to provoke a reaction that you knew would come.

Thats why I was hyper focused in that specific spot. It matters to me what people do in the micro moments, that's where most of the game is played

@titus it was responding to klicks post directly before it, as is this.

What I wanted to do was engage a bit with STD on his vote on me which felt weirdly out of place. I know STD doesn't often provide much to back up points like that but I was expecting... I don't know, more than what I got? Like there are levels to it. I wanted to understand what STD was thinking just a little bit but I got nothing at all, and it was entirely plausible as a response but still disappointing.

[Klick]

Klick, which citation was your favorite in PB's case?

I didn't have a 'favorite' citation, I didn't actually click on any of the links in his post, and I took what he was describing at face value and up to present time haven't fact checked a thing he said. Have fun with that answer <3

[Klick]

I thought he might have something specific to talk about in regards to his vote

I don't know, maybe I'm not as well-versed in STD's mannerisms as you. I thought it was reasonable to think I might get thoughts out of him from what I said.

[Klick]

idk why but i just don't expect these takes from kuribo ive been seeing. I am not sure what takes he would be giving but i think it would be juicy that i could sink my teeth into.

I agree with this

[Klick]

if i were to make a townblock i guess it would look something like:

{Ircher, Titus, Pink Ball, GIF, StD, Dunnstral}

This list is wild
Tell me about your feelings on Ircher and GIF and Dunn

[Klick]

lI kind of just threw in Dunnstral because teammates have shouted me down from it.

Oh I could continue reading the post

[Klick]

Real fucking nice too, this piece of shit town with players that think they're so fucking good

You know what a masonry is in amnesia?!

It's a fucking ROLLING CASCADE OF TOWN CONFIRMATIONS because whoever gets the roles AFTER US is also confirmed


And this town couldn't even let shit breathe for one fucking day.

You people I Fucking swear

I mean
This or like 'Friendly Neighbour' were the only two sensible options for your claim the moment you started softing
And both of them were absolutely ridiculous for you to even slightly allude to when you did.
You had zero proper incentive to come out with this information the way you did. Ircher wasn't actually in danger.

[Klick]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

Also, yes, this

[Klick]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

WOULDA BEEN REAL FUCKING NICE NOT TO HAVE HAD TL OUT IT

You cared an awful lot about alluding to it for someone who wanted it to be a secret
Just come up with some bullshit reason to townread Ircher slot if that's what you want

[Klick]

i have ircher in my townblock and said kuribo should not be elimmed today.
Yet Kuribo was forced to out this lol

Not enough people were seeing that he was softing Masons! Why couldn't we just have half the town see it and the other half be scum?

[Klick]

I don’t know, too much hypothetical cases to actually answer your question. I want a scum flip

How much confidence do you have in your own DragonEater scumread? Like how surprised would you be at a town flip?

[Klick]

Ircher
kuribo

Pink Ball
Titus
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Drixx
Thestatusquo
Black

Save The Dragons
Feysal
GuyInFreezer

DragonEater

????

[Klick]

That's not right

Maybe I should preflip DragonEater and use that to solve further

[Klick]

klick didn't do "anything" in that game to the point that klickwork was basically alisae only.

so why would I assume something based on a game he didn't play at all?

because clearly from that i would take that as an example of klick not feeling comfortable as scum.....

Not playing a game in its entirety can just mean they were busy or something irl came up or whatever. that's how I had that flagged in my mind anyway. its not like they were playing and being uncomfortable (showing that) for me to make a link like that.

but that's good to know about klick

do you think scum!klick is capable of making a 180 on reads to associate with a wagon in general os is more conservative and careful in nature?

Did you not follow our scum discord chat at all? Like it's not like I made zero contributions, I was really clear in that chat that in the later stages of the game I wasn't posting because I was afraid of screwing everything up and dislike being scum.

[Klick]

I'm actually offended if the reason Klick abandoned the game is because of what he randed. I know in a hydra one head is allowed to be dominant and the other does less work, maybe that's how they wanted the hydra to work,

but regardless of playing solo or in a hydra no one is allowed to abandon the game in its entirety for what they randed. Thats so against the spirit of the game and extremely lame

As discussed in the scum discord of that game, I was on V/LA for a few days when the game started, and in that time my scumteam literally progressed the game to D3 with a full-on plan. I planned on posting at some point but couldn't muster it up because I was afraid of screwing up the very strong scum game my partners were all playing.

[Klick]

It's not as simple as 'I abandoned the game because I randed scum'
That would be terrible but that's also not what happened

[Klick]

I would like you to sell me on Frozen Angel in that top tier.

My real-time interaction with her felt genuine and towny

I think in 1276 in particular she quickly and comfortably explained her perception of the difference between her as town and her as scum in a way that made me believe she thought was on the town side, and it fit with her description

She also managed to answer that effectively WHILE ALSO making it clear that what she actually cared about in that conversation was continuing to question my characterisation of her reads as soulless
Like I think she was motivated mostly by calling that out. Meaning there was less opportunity for her focus to be on giving me an answer I'd 'like' to hear to my question

[Klick]

I don't think you should assume I'd play exactly like that as scum

I do think it is part of a larger observable pattern of behaviour that confirms the fact that I have very low confidence as scum and have not shown to be very good at it in the last few years

I used Alisae as a crutch in that game and I feel kinda bad about it
But me being absent in that game is down to a few factors
Being scum was one of them and if I were town I most likely would have gotten back into the game after V/LA. But also the game would have been very different because Alisae was like the main scum presence.

[Klick]

Up to date vote count:

DragonEater70 - 7

(Frozen Angel, Drixx, Feysal, Pink Ball, Klick, Dunnstral, Firebringer)

Klick - 4

(Kuribo, Save The Dragons, Titus, Thestatusquo)

Frozen Angel - 1

(GuyInFreezer)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 2

(DragonEater70, Ircher)

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate

[Klick]

To be clear,

DragonEater is at E-1

[Klick]

Did I miss your thoughts on Pink Ball's Dragon case Black?

[Klick]

Did I miss your thoughts on Pink Ball's Dragon case Black?

Yeah it was all meta wasn't it? I wasn't a big fan

What does that have to do with the accuracy of the argument?
Are you writing the logic off simply because it has to do with how DragonEater has interacted in other games, or is there something about the actual points being made that you think makes it unreliable?

[Klick]

What about the fact that DragonEater hasn't responded to FA's case or to why they agreed with Klick's case on FA?

Or about how they seem to only do things when prodded to do so?

Haha I was planning on writing basically this to Black

I think DragonEater's lack of thread presence is rather poor optics

[Klick]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

[Klick]

What about the fact that DragonEater hasn't responded to FA's case or to why they agreed with Klick's case on FA?

Or about how they seem to only do things when prodded to do so?

I mean if you want my honest answer I think the guy is busy af and not really committed to the game. But I'm not going to judge people for assuming his sparseness his wolf motivated, I'm just gonna think you're wrong

I don't think his optics atm are bad just because he's not saying much
He's not giving good responses to the pressure on him when he is around

[Klick]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

You're so sure in scum!DE that you're already looking for associatives? Why am I finding this hard to believe? What am I missing about this DE thing? Can you give me something longer than a tl;dr why you think he's scum or at least point me to a post where you explained it?

I already said I was doing this in 2129?

I explained my DragonEater suspicion in 1966. It's not deeper than that. I am sheeping PB's reasoning because I think it is stronger than anything I have on Dragon or on anyone else really.

[Klick]

I don’t know, too much hypothetical cases to actually answer your question. I want a scum flip

How much confidence do you have in your own DragonEater scumread? Like how surprised would you be at a town flip?

Can't remember if you answered PB but it seems relevant to bring back up now that you've voted someone else.

[Klick]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

I think this is genuine and betrays a mindset only town could have.

[Klick]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

I think this is genuine and betrays a mindset only town could have.

Can you respond to 2192? It feels like you were willing to sheep PB's read before you knew how sure he was about it. And I just think it feels a bit weird that you're solving for DE's partners with this in mind. Does town Klick do this? Do you normally start solving for partners when there's not much conviction in the first person flipping scum?

I really like the case PB made against DragonEater and think it makes him likely to flip scum.

I feel like I've been clear about this. I have more conviction in DragonEater flipping scum than I would for most Day 1 elims. Pink Ball's personal conviction in the case he laid out against DragonEater has minimal bearing on my own belief in its soundness.

I believe preflipping a suspect as scum and searching for potential partners is valid as a method of scumhunting. Without significant suspects other than DragonEater and with a reads list that doesn't feel right to me, I feel like it might help me.

[Klick]

I'm getting frustrated at the feeling that I'm spending an inordinate amount of time in this game repeating different versions of things I've already said. I feel fairly choked out of doing things that I'd like to do to contribute to solving because I'm too busy saying things I've said previously in different ways.

Sorry if that's bleeding out into the thread

[Klick]

Caught up.

Do you think scum!Klick is capable of making a 180 on reads to associate with a wagon in general or is more conservative and careful in nature?

Yes. It happened in the very game I referenced earlier, where Klick faked a daykill gambit to have an excuse to drop his town read on a partner. Happened over 10 years ago though.

Did it? That sounds sick. I was a lit 15 year old

[Klick]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

I think this is genuine and betrays a mindset only town could have.

[Klick]

You would lim a claimed Mason?

How does being a mason clear kuribo in this setup?

I think this is genuine and betrays a mindset only town could have.

No. It's scum fishing to limit clears. We have an insane town core atm

Point me to some examples of actual role fishing by scum that has been detected mid-game in the last, like, year

[Klick]

How is that fishing?

We have a group of 8 or so locktowns (in common parlance). By not accepting common sense, Black is trying to keep kuribo and Ircher limmable.

You can't actually believe this is Black's mindset?

[Klick]

Even if Black is scum I imagine 'potentially eliminate kuribo or Ircher' is not on her agenda

[Klick]

This feels like me with like, several people atm

[Klick]

"Your team" is scumreading me now huh? not you yourself specifically

who in your team is scumreading me?

Also very curious about this!

[Klick]

I spent that peaceful time last night reevaluating some of my reads:

- I had some dissonance on Black where I read some specific responses as very towny but felt that her overall tone over long stretches of time felt scummy/different from Hollow Knight. So I had a skim through her ISO in all of her completed games to get a more full picture. I read Black fairly strongly as town from it. I think her content here reads as much more genuine than in any of her scum games. I understand having a general vibe that she's trying to perform a bit and was starting to feel that a bit myself, but I think she has moments in this game that are closer to how she genuinely approaches solving games than I've seen in her scum games.

- I think STD is town. I think 2324 is a really good post. I believe those takes from Korina and especially Ceph, and I believe STD's sort of disappointment in disagreeing about me being town. I don't see the scum motivation in the swap from myself to Drixx. I think only town!STD makes that post.

- I think CipherGate strongly indicates that Feysal is town. I think their enthusiasm is genuine and town-motivated and past the point that scum would choose to push it.

I've taken these reads and raised the bar for my already-existing reads to include only townreads that I'm very confident in (so Pink Ball and Frozen Angel), to create a PoE that I feel significantly better about than the PoE produced by my previous reads list.

TOWN
Pink Ball
Frozen Angel
Save The Dragons
Black
Feysal

MASONS
kuribo
Ircher

POE
DragonEater70
Drixx
Dunnstral
Firebringer
GuyInFreezer
Thestatusquo
Titus

This is a list I like much more for 3-4 scum than what I was seeing early last night.

I've asked my team what they generally think of the players in that PoE. Bella told me to take Firebringer and Shea off the list. I get why but I'm going to leave them there anyway. They're probably the players I'd least expect to be scum in that group, but when I think 'who here is strong enough at scum to be rather likely to have me convinced they're town when they're not' Firebringer and TSQ are the top two that come to mind. So in the list they go!

But realistically the thing that my brain intuitively gets to with that list sort of looks like Dragon/Titus/Dunnstral/???
I'm good at reading Titus as town early on when she's scum. And Dunn's the player I mentioned earlier who could easily be scum but who I've left in the town bracket for funsies.

Anyway, off for now, be back to answer for my crimes in 3-4 hours? Have fun

[Klick]

Individually I am reading Titus as town, that's why she was in my townreads

I'm not confident enough to say that could just be a poor read

Her early early game was strong but I'm lacking since basically then

[Klick]

- I had some dissonance on Black where I read some specific responses as very towny but felt that her overall tone over long stretches of time felt scummy/different from Hollow Knight. So I had a skim through her ISO in all of her completed games to get a more full picture. I read Black fairly strongly as town from it. I think her content here reads as much more genuine than in any of her scum games. I understand having a general vibe that she's trying to perform a bit and was starting to feel that a bit myself, but I think she has moments in this game that are closer to how she genuinely approaches solving games than I've seen in her scum games.

i haven't read any of blacks other games. But as far as i know black has only one scum game on the site? Someone correct me on that if im wrong.

So how ur defining her scum baseline behavior.

She has like 3-4 scum games?

[Klick]

Tsk tsk
Have it on my desk by the end of the period or you'll lose marks

[Klick]

But realistically the thing that my brain intuitively gets to with that list sort of looks like Dragon/Titus/Dunnstral/???
I'm good at reading Titus as town early on when she's scum. And Dunn's the player I mentioned earlier who could easily be scum but who I've left in the town bracket for funsies.

I feel like I have no business being on your proposed scum team if you think it's Dragon and Titus. This is a weird reevaluation.

Explain why?

[Klick]

I specifically went through VCA and thought 'if anyone was bussing DragonEater who would it be' and thought you could make decent sense
I feel like you/Dragon is entirely viable

I haven't really looked much at the you/Titus interactions admittedly and I'll do that when I'm more around

[Klick]

Spoiler: Scene 2

[The camera pans over a group of five people, all looking disoriented and confused as they stand in the middle of a forest clearing. They all wear tattered and dirty clothing, and their faces are bruised and scratched.]

Doctor: [groans and touches his forehead] What happened? Where are we?

Mechanic: [looks around, searching for any clues] I don't know. But we have to figure it out.

Bartender: [examines the area closely] I don't see any signs of civilization. No roads, no buildings, nothing.

Journalist: [pulls out a small notepad] We need to gather information. Maybe we can piece together what happened to us.

Artist: [looks up at the sky] There's no sun or stars. How are we supposed to tell the time of day?

[The group begins to search the clearing for anything that might help them uncover their pasts. They find a small stream, a few berries, and some old footprints in the dirt.]

Doctor: [examines the footprints] These tracks are fresh. Someone must have been here recently.

Journalist: [takes notes in her notepad] Maybe we're not the only ones trapped here.

Mechanic: [determinedly] We need to find a way out of here. We can't just wait around for someone to rescue us.

Bartender: [looks at the others] We need to stick together. We'll be stronger as a group.

Artist: [nods in agreement] And we need to remember. We have to find a way to trigger our memories.

[As the group talks, they hear a faint rustling in the nearby bushes. They tense up, ready to defend themselves.]

Doctor: [pulls out a small pocket knife] Be on guard. We don't know what's out there.

[The rustling grows louder, and suddenly a small animal darts out from the bushes, followed by a figure in tattered clothing.]

Stranger: [breathlessly] Wait! Don't hurt me. I'm not here to hurt you.

Journalist: [skeptically] Who are you? What do you want?

Stranger: [frustratedly] I don't know who I am. I woke up in these woods just like you. But I found something that might help us.

[The stranger pulls out a small, tattered journal from his pocket.]

Mechanic: [curiously] What is it?

Stranger: [opens the journal and points to a page with a map] It's a map. It shows the way out of these woods and towards civilization.

[The group looks at each other with a newfound sense of hope, realizing that they might have a chance to escape their mysterious captors and uncover the truth about their pasts.]

Vote Count

Firebringer - 3

(Titus,

DragonEater70

, Dunnstral)

Klick

- 2

(GuyInFreezer,

Frozen Angel

)

Black - 1

(

Klick

)

Titus - 1

(Thestatusquo)

DragonEater70

- 1

(

Pink Ball

)

Dunnstral -

1 (Firebringer)

Thestatusquo - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 15

(

BlueSnakelet

, Drixx, Feysal,

Kuribo

, Save The Dragons)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

Start of Day

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 3

[The group follows the map through the dense forest, growing more and more tired with each passing moment. They stop for a brief rest, sitting on a fallen log and sharing the last of their meager food supplies.]

Mechanic: [sighs] How much farther do we have to go?

Doctor: [studies the map] According to this, we should be getting close.

Bartender: [nervously] What if we never find out who we are? What if we're stuck like this forever?

Journalist: [puts a comforting hand on Bartender's shoulder] We'll find a way. We have to keep moving forward.

Artist: [gazes up at the sky] I wonder who's behind all of this. Who could be so cruel as to do this to us?

[As the group continues their trek through the woods, they begin to hear a faint voice calling out to them. At first, they think it might be one of their own, but as the voice grows louder, they realize it's someone else entirely.]

Voice: [calls out] Hello? Is anyone out there?

Doctor: [holds up a hand, signaling for the others to be quiet] I hear something.

Voice: [calls out again] Please, I need your help. I'm lost out here.

Mechanic: [whispers to the group] We should be careful. We don't know who this person is.

Journalist: [nods in agreement] But we can't just leave them out there.

[The group cautiously follows the sound of the voice, eventually finding a small clearing with a figure slumped against a tree. As they approach, they realize it's the stranger they met earlier.]

Stranger: [weakly] I'm so glad you found me. I don't think I can make it much longer.

Artist: [helps the stranger to his feet] What happened to you?

Stranger: [shakes his head] I don't know. I was walking along, trying to find my way out of here, when I was attacked by some kind of creature. I barely escaped with my life.

Doctor: [examines the stranger's injuries] We have to get you some medical attention.

Voice: [chuckles darkly] You won't be doing that.

[The group spins around, realizing that the voice calling out to them is not a person at all, but a disembodied voice echoing through the clearing. They look around frantically, trying to find the source of the voice.]

Voice: [continues] You see, I have a little game I like to play. And you're all players now.

Journalist: [angrily] Who are you? Why are you doing this?

Voice: [coldly] Let's just say that I have my reasons. And you'll find out soon enough.

[The group looks at each other, realizing that their journey to uncover their pasts has just taken a dark and dangerous turn.]

Vote Count

Klick

- 3

(GuyInFreezer,

Frozen Angel

, Titus)

Titus - 3

(Thestatusquo, Dunnstral,

DragonEater70

)

DragonEater70

- 2

(

Pink Ball

,

Kuribo

)

Firebringer - 1

(Feysal)

Black - 1

(

Klick

)

BlueSnakelet

- 1

(Black)

Feysal - 1

(Firebringer)

Not Voting - 3

(

BlueSnakelet

, Drixx, Save The Dragons)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 4

[The group moves cautiously through the dark, winding corridors of the abandoned building, on edge from their encounter with the mysterious Voice. They hear the sound of footsteps echoing from around the corner, and the group immediately falls silent.]

Librarian: [whispers] We should be careful. It could be a trap.

Detective: [nods] Agreed. Let's stay alert.

[As they turn the corner, they see a figure in the distance, hunched over a desk, pouring over some papers.]

Writer: [whispers] Who is that?

Nurse: [squints her eyes] It's hard to tell from here. But they don't seem to have noticed us yet.

[The group slowly approaches the figure, who remains focused on their task. As they get closer, they recognize the figure as the janitor they had encountered earlier.]

Janitor: [looks up, surprised] Oh, it's you again.

Doctor: [curious] What are you doing here? Do you know anything about the Voice?

Janitor: [shakes his head] I don't know anything about the Voice. But I did find something that might interest you.

[The janitor reaches under the desk and pulls out a dusty old book. As he opens it, the group sees that it's filled with strange symbols and diagrams.]

Mechanic: [in awe] What is that?

Janitor: [smiling] It's an old book of magic. I found it in the basement. And I think it might have some answers for you.

[The group studies the book, trying to make sense of the ancient symbols and incantations. Suddenly, the sound of creaking floorboards echoes through the room, and the group looks up to see a figure lurking in the shadows.]

Voice: [coldly] I see you've found my little hideout.

[The group stands, ready for a fight, as the Voice steps out of the shadows, revealing their true identity.]

Librarian: [shocked] It's you!

Voice: [smiling] Did you really think you could escape me? You're playing my game now, and you'll never be able to leave.

[The group braces themselves, ready to fight for their freedom and their pasts, as the Voice advances towards them with a wicked gleam in their eye.]

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 2

(

Kuribo

,

Frozen Angel

)

Firebringer - 2

(Feysal,

DragonEater70

)

Frozen Angel

- 2

(Titus, Dunnstral)

Feysal - 2

(Firebringer, Thestatusquo)

Black - 1

(

Klick

)

Klick

- 1

(

Pink Ball

)

Titus - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 4

(

BlueSnakelet

, Drixx, GuyInFreezer, Save The Dragons)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 5

[The camera pans over to a sleek sports car screeching to a halt in front of a swanky nightclub. Out jumps the Spy, followed by the Thief, who is carrying a set of lockpicks.]

Spy: [adjusting his tuxedo] Alright, Thief, let's do this.

Thief: [grinning] You got it, Spy.

[The Spy and Thief make their way past the bouncers and into the club. The music is thumping, and the dance floor is packed with people dancing wildly. The Spy scans the crowd, looking for their target.]

Spy: [leaning over to the Thief] There he is. That's our mark.

[The Spy and Thief approach the target, who is sitting at the bar, sipping on a martini.]

Spy: [flashing a charming smile] Hey there, buddy. You look like a man who could use some company.

Target: [smirking] Is that so?

Thief: [nodding] Yeah, we're here to give you a good time.

[As the Spy distracts the target, the Thief deftly picks the lock on the target's briefcase and pulls out a file.]

Thief: [whispers to the Spy] Got it.

Spy: [nodding] Perfect. Now let's get out of here before things get messy.

[As they make their way out of the club, they suddenly hear the sound of police sirens wailing in the distance.]

Thief: [panicking] Oh no, the cops are on our tail!

Spy: [smirking] Relax, Thief. We've got this.

[The Spy and Thief make their way back to the sports car, with the police hot on their heels. The Spy revs the engine, and the car takes off in a high-speed chase, weaving in and out of traffic and narrowly avoiding collisions.]

Spy: [laughing] This is what I call a wild ride!

Thief: [grinning] You're crazy, Spy!

[As they race towards their hideout, they suddenly hear a loud explosion behind them.]

Spy: [looking in the rearview mirror] Oh no, they blew up our car!

Thief: [groaning] We're gonna have to walk from here.

Spy: [chuckling] Looks like we're in for a long night.

[The Spy and Thief make their way down a dark alley, with the sound of sirens still echoing in the distance, as they prepare to face whatever comes their way.]

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 3

(

Kuribo

,

Frozen Angel

, Drixx)

Firebringer - 2

(Feysal,

DragonEater70

)

Frozen Angel

- 2

(Titus, Dunnstral)

Feysal - 2

(Firebringer, Thestatusquo)

Black - 1

(

Klick

)

Klick

- 1

(

Pink Ball

)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 3

(

BlueSnakelet

, GuyInFreezer, Save The Dragons)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 6

[The camera shows a dimly lit alleyway, where the Detective and the Informant are meeting.]

Detective: [suspiciously] So, what did you find out?

Informant: [nervously] The Voice is planning something big. I don't know what it is, but it's going to be bad.

Detective: [leaning in] Where and when?

Informant: [whispering] I don't know the exact location, but I overheard them saying it would happen tonight.

Detective: [nodding] Alright, thanks for the info. But remember, if you're lying to me, you're dead.

Informant: [backing away] I swear, I'm telling you the truth.

[The Detective watches as the Informant scurries away, then pulls out his phone and dials a number.]

Detective: [into the phone] Yeah, it's me. The Voice is planning something tonight. We need to assemble the team.

[The camera then cuts to a montage of the various characters receiving calls and messages, as they gear up and prepare for the upcoming operation.]

[As the montage ends, the camera shows the team, including the Detective, the Assassin, the Hacker, the Thief, and the Sniper, huddled together in a van, as they drive to the location.]

Detective: [addressing the team] Alright, this is it. The Voice is planning something big, and we're here to stop them. Remember, we're a team, and we stick together.

[The camera then shows the team entering a warehouse, guns drawn, as they prepare to take down the Voice and their minions.]

[As the action intensifies, the camera shows the team taking out wave after wave of the Voice's henchmen, as they make their way to the inner sanctum.]

[Finally, they burst into the room, where the Voice is sitting at a desk, surrounded by guards.]

Voice: [smirking] I've been expecting you.

Detective: [pointing his gun] It's over, Voice. We have you surrounded.

[The Voice chuckles, as the guards level their weapons at the team.]

Voice: [smiling] You may have won this round, Detective, but I'll be back. And when I am, you won't be so lucky.

[As the Voice and their guards make their escape, the team looks on, victorious but wary.]

[The camera then fades to black, as the words "To Be Continued" appear on the screen.]

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 4

(

Kuribo

,

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal)

Frozen Angel

- 3

(Titus, Dunnstral, Save The Dragons)

Black - 2

(

Klick

, Thestatusquo)

Firebringer - 1

(

DragonEater70

)

Feysal - 1

(Firebringer)

Klick

- 1

(

Pink Ball

)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 2

(

BlueSnakelet

, GuyInFreezer)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 7

[The camera shows the team gathered in a safe house, looking over the documents and evidence they've collected from their raid on the Voice's lair.]

Detective: [pacing back and forth] Something's not right here. The Voice knew we were coming. They were ready for us.

Assassin: [leaning against the wall] Maybe we have a mole.

Hacker: [typing furiously on their laptop] I'm looking into the security systems of the warehouse. Maybe I can find something.

Thief: [smirking] Or maybe we just got sloppy.

Sniper: [leaning against the window] It doesn't matter now. What matters is what the Voice is planning next.

[Just then, the Hacker's computer beeps.]

Hacker: [excitedly] I found something. The Voice has been buying up a ton of weapons and explosives from the black market.

Detective: [nodding] That's not good. We need to find out where and when the Voice is planning to use them.

[Just then, there's a knock on the door.]

Thief: [suspiciously] Who could that be?

[The team readies their weapons, as the Detective opens the door to reveal a figure shrouded in shadows.]

Detective: [cautiously] Who are you?

Mysterious Figure: [in a deep voice] I have information about the Voice.

Detective: [intrigued] Alright, come in.

[As the Mysterious Figure steps into the light, the team is shocked to see that it's the Informant from earlier.]

Detective: [angrily] You again? What do you want?

Informant: [pleadingly] Please, you have to listen to me. I can help you stop the Voice.

Detective: [skeptically] Why should we trust you?

Informant: [desperately] Because I know who the Voice really is. And if we don't stop them, they'll destroy everything we know and love.

[The camera then fades to black, as the words "To Be Continued" appear on the screen, leaving the team and the audience wondering what secrets the Informant holds.]

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 5

(

Kuribo

,

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal,

Pink Ball

)

Frozen Angel

- 3

(Titus, Dunnstral, GuyInFreezer)

Pink Ball

- 2

(

Klick

, Black)

Black - 1

(Thestatusquo)

Firebringer - 1

(

DragonEater70

)

Feysal - 1

(Firebringer)

Drixx - 1

(Save The Dragons)

Not Voting - 1

(

BlueSnakelet

)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

Prodding DragonEater70

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 8

[The camera pans across a dimly lit warehouse, filled with crates and boxes. Suddenly, a group of armed men enter the room, led by a tall, imposing figure with a scar across his cheek.]

Boss: [addressing the men] Alright, listen up. The shipment needs to be delivered to the docks by tomorrow night. We can't afford any mistakes.

[Just then, a group of masked figures bursts into the warehouse, guns blazing. The two groups engage in a fierce gunfight, with bullets flying in every direction.]

Doctor: [to Engineer] This doesn't look good. We need to find a way out of here.

Engineer: [nodding] I agree. Let's make our way to the exit.

[As they try to make their way to the exit, they are confronted by one of the boss's men.]

Detective: [drawing her gun] Looks like we'll have to fight our way out.

Chemist: [looking around nervously] We need to be careful. We don't know what's in these crates.

[The group continues to fight their way through the warehouse, dodging bullets and taking out the boss's men. As they approach the exit, they hear a mysterious voice over the intercom.]

Voice: [laughing] You thought you could just waltz in here and take what you want? Think again. The boss always wins.

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 4

(

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal,

Pink Ball

)

Frozen Angel

- 2

(Titus, GuyInFreezer)

Pink Ball

- 1

(Black)

Black - 1

(Thestatusquo)

Feysal - 1

(Firebringer)

Drixx - 1

(Save The Dragons)

GuyInFreezer - 1

(

Kuribo

)

Not Voting - 4

(

DragonEater70

, Dunnstral,

Ircher

,

Klick

)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 8 Redux

[The camera pans across a dimly lit warehouse, filled with crates and boxes. Suddenly, a group of armed men enter the room, led by a tall, imposing figure with a scar across his cheek.]

Boss: [addressing the men] Alright, listen up. The shipment needs to be delivered to the docks by tomorrow night. We can't afford any mistakes.

[Just then, a group of masked figures bursts into the warehouse, guns blazing. The two groups engage in a fierce gunfight, with bullets flying in every direction.]

Doctor: [to Engineer] This doesn't look good. We need to find a way out of here.

Engineer: [nodding] I agree. Let's make our way to the exit.

[As they try to make their way to the exit, they are confronted by one of the boss's men.]

Detective: [drawing her gun] Looks like we'll have to fight our way out.

Chemist: [looking around nervously] We need to be careful. We don't know what's in these crates.

[The group continues to fight their way through the warehouse, dodging bullets and taking out the boss's men. As they approach the exit, they hear a mysterious voice over the intercom.]

Voice: [laughing] You thought you could just waltz in here and take what you want? Think again. The boss always wins.

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 4

(

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal,

Pink Ball

)

GuyInFreezer - 4

(

Kuribo

, Thestatusquo, Titus, Save The Dragons)

Frozen Angel

- 1

(GuyInFreezer)

Black - 1

(Firebringer)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 4

(

DragonEater70

, Dunnstral,

Ircher

,

Klick

)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Spoiler: Scene 9

[The group of Doctor, Engineer, Detective, and Chemist are now on the run, escaping the warehouse and trying to regroup.]

Doctor: We need to find a safe place to hide and figure out our next move.

Detective: Agreed. But first, we need to lose any tail we might have.

Engineer: I can try and hotwire a car. It might give us a better chance of getting away.

Chemist: [nods in agreement] And I can use my knowledge of chemicals to create a smoke bomb or something to slow down anyone following us.

[The group splits up to execute their plan. The Engineer successfully hotwires a car while the Chemist creates a smoke bomb. As they speed away from the scene, they hear a loud explosion and see a cloud of smoke behind them.]

Detective: [looking back] Looks like our little trick worked. But we can't let our guard down just yet.

Doctor: [checking her phone] I just received a message. It's from the Voice. It says "I hope you enjoyed your little victory. But the game is far from over."

Chemist: [looking worried] What does that mean?

Engineer: [shaking his head] I don't know, but we need to be ready for anything.

[The group arrives at a safe house, a run-down apartment complex in the outskirts of the city.]

Doctor: [unlocking the door] This will have to do for now. We need to lay low and come up with a plan.

[As they settle in, the tension in the room is palpable. They know that the Voice is still out there, watching and waiting. But for now, they can only focus on staying alive and finding a way to win the game.]

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 5

(

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal,

Pink Ball

,

Klick

)

Klick

- 3

(

Kuribo

, Save The Dragons, Titus)

GuyInFreezer - 1

(Thestatusquo)

Frozen Angel

- 1

(GuyInFreezer)

Black - 1

(Firebringer)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 3

(

DragonEater70

, Dunnstral,

Ircher

)

With 15 Alive, It Takes 8 to Eliminate

Activity Check:

All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-25 17:00:00)

Up to date vote count:

Vote Count

DragonEater70

- 7

(

Frozen Angel

, Drixx, Feysal,

Pink Ball

,

Klick

, Dunnstral, Firebringer)

Klick

- 4

(

Kuribo

, Save The Dragons, Titus, Thestatusquo)

Frozen Angel

- 1

(GuyInFreezer)

Drixx - 1

(Black)

Not Voting - 2

(

DragonEater70

,

Ircher

)

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate

For fun, have some VCA notes from earlier I've got in a tab filling in some of my reads

[Klick]

I specifically went through VCA and thought 'if anyone was bussing DragonEater who would it be' and thought you could make decent sense
I feel like you/Dragon is entirely viable

I haven't really looked much at the you/Titus interactions admittedly and I'll do that when I'm more around

Imagine doing VCA with no flip

Do you want to explain why this is bad or do you want to throw shade for no particular reason?

[Klick]

I specifically went through VCA and thought 'if anyone was bussing DragonEater who would it be' and thought you could make decent sense
I feel like you/Dragon is entirely viable

I haven't really looked much at the you/Titus interactions admittedly and I'll do that when I'm more around

Imagine doing VCA with no flip

Do you want to explain why this is bad or do you want to throw shade for no particular reason?

It’s bad because it’s basically doing looking for associatives with no flip. Your whole analysis is based on the assumption instead of fact.

I openly admitted I was looking for associatives without a flip and then re-clarified that when asked about it already.

What forms of analysis can you do on Day 1 that are based on fact and not assumption?

If DragonEater is town it becomes useless to look for partners of DragonEater, but I don't think DragonEater is town

[Klick]

Intent to hammer.

To clarify the vote count I posted might not be up to date now
It was up to date when I made it earlier

[Klick]

@Klick and @Titus you both read Black’s finished games and are coming to opposite conclusions. Will I have to do a case à la DragonEater to see who of you is right or can you both save me the time and discuss about it?

I'm not going to win a debate against Titus on the subject
But if you want tonight I can try to go into more detail

[Klick]

Second ugh

[Klick]

Whoever had my role last night probably can't do that much of consequence

[Klick]

I think if there is another Lover they should claim immediately. None of this slow rolling stuff that lets scum have more time to assess the situation.

I am not a Lover

[Klick]

VOTE: Black

I had a vision that she was Mafia

I used a Visionary last night

[Klick]

I think if there is another Lover they should claim immediately. None of this slow rolling stuff that lets scum have more time to assess the situation.

I am not a Lover

Wrong. Will explain when I get home.

Kuribo do not confirm if lover posts or not until all show. Maybe not then.

This makes me want a claim to happen more

[Klick]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

[Klick]

I think I'm going to chill out on reads for a bit and only present what I'm most confident in

Right now my most confident reads are Black town, Drixx town, STD town
Followed closely by Firebringer and Shea town

I want Pink Ball and Frozen Angel to be town more than I actually have faith that they're town and I think rating them highly yesterday was a mistake

Dunn/Titus/GIF are bottom tier and I expect some scum to be in that group somewhere

And then kuribo/Ircher are lol

[Klick]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

Well you're scum so your opinion is useless

VOTE: kuribo

[Klick]

VOTE: Black

I had a vision that she was Mafia

I used a Visionary last night

If the person I targeted successfully received a vision last night, I would much prefer if they could say so before today ends

[Klick]

I'm not satisfied with a situation where the only two players who can vouch for the Mason/Lover stuff are kuribo and Ircher

Well you're scum so your opinion is useless

VOTE: kuribo

OMGUS isn't gonna save you fucker

We'll never find out because I voted first

[Klick]

Klick, alisae is bullying me and told me to tell u that e is very certain that Ircher is town.

Why? Help me see it

[Klick]

I'm here. Here's why Kuribo is smart to obfuscate on if the lover has actually posted in the PT unless they are in danger. A smart lover encourages Kuribo to lie.

Scenario 1: The lover is town - Scum don't know who the lover is. The lover could be Feysal or someone they feel is pocketed. Shooting Kuribo becomes a risk of eliminating a lover role without benefit (supposing dead slots mean the role goes away). If scum know who the lover is, then the risk for them goes way down and they can control the nightphase.
Scenario 2: The lover is scum - Scum shooting Kuribo just takes the lover role out of play for them.
Scenario 3: The lover is Keysal - See one.

The only person time town needs to know the lover is a) if they are at risk of elimination or b) they're a protective role.

The benefit of kuribo and Ircher's claim being backed up further brings more value than any of this stuff though
Who cares if scum can slightly optimise their N2 action in a town!kuribo world when we could actually get significantly further solving today by having the info now

[Klick]

I have a game somewhere in the depths of my memory where kuribo intentionally claimed Masons with a scumbuddy early on as a gambit

Like this exact play has precedent as a fakeclaim by kuribo

At least I think I'm remembering that right

[Klick]

We get plenty far today by not giving scum information. Your pleading today is scummy af.

If Kuribo or his lover aren't wagoned, then town doesn't need the information.

Data from votes, from pushes is what we need.

Funny, how do you have Black so high on your reads?

No, my opinion is different than the one you've decided should be the standard for the day and it has merits that you don't want to consider.

I explained Black!town yesterday.

[Klick]

Klick, alisae is bullying me and told me to tell u that e is very certain that Ircher is town.

Why? Help me see it

alisae says the post where dropped a few read and were like 2 are asias reads seemed town and the wy engaged with people on black seemed town and the vote and unvote on shea is how town would go about game.
blue snek isn't playing to a team

I mean I also thought BlueSnakelet looked pretty towny

I dont think the Ircher read stuff is that conclusive
I think the better point in Ircher's favor is that he was completely disinterested in the Mason claim stuff

I guess giving reads up to Page 7 isn't something scum really feels compelled to do but town does because they actually want to get their actual reads out
And Ircher didn't feel like he was that phased by his position in the game

Yeah I can see it

[Klick]

Klick im shocked u think that kuribo decided to claim masons day 1 with his ally (Ircher) then u think scum!ircher went along with the fake claim masons. Only for kuribo to backtrack today that no they aren't masons they are lovers.

Like either this is scum!kuribo using Ircher as a fall guy for his death or they are both town. I can't see this as being moves scum!ircher takes when he confirms the masons claim.

I don't think about all of these things at once

I am incredibly concerned by kuribo's approach isolated from anything Ircher has done

[Klick]

Klick im shocked u think that kuribo decided to claim masons day 1 with his ally (Ircher) then u think scum!ircher went along with the fake claim masons. Only for kuribo to backtrack today that no they aren't masons they are lovers.

Like either this is scum!kuribo using Ircher as a fall guy for his death or they are both town. I can't see this as being moves scum!ircher takes when he confirms the masons claim.

I don't think about all of these things at once

I am incredibly concerned by kuribo's approach isolated from anything Ircher has done

Well i think u need to consider Ircher in this if ur going to assume Kuribo is a lying scum. Because it implicates Ircher alignment.

Also alisae says u ignored e. But i thought i saw u respond. Don't know what e is talking about.

Okay, I am trying
Sometimes I focus on one thing at a time and it takes a bit to catch up on the bigger picture
I think I agree that Ircher is towny

I just have a very strong negative reaction to 'we're Masons claiming very preemptively, no actually we're Lovers, and also I drew the other Lover so it can't be confirmed by anyone else'
Like kuribo acknowledges that this is unlikely to happen and yet me questioning it is unreasonable and makes me scum

[Klick]

Anyway I'm going to sleep now

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

Look at me and Shea mindmelding in Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie

[Klick]

On that note, I'm going to take a weed gummy and play LOL to not tilt.

You're playing LoL to NOT tilt???
You must have some mental

[Klick]

Yeah okay Ircher is just town

[Klick]

What a disappointing lunch break check in
How dare you North Americans sleep

[Klick]

your first mistake was taking me seriously to begin with

Can I have a more full look at Ali's reads on this game Firebriar?

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

I'm not feeling this slot atm. I don't like how he positioned himself on the DE wagon after DE was his top townread. I also don't like the way he did it by saying he's sheeping PB which relieved him of the responsibility of the mislim. I didn't like how he handled the kuribo bread crumbing and I didn't like how he had GiF at the bottom of his reads list but voted for DE after traction on a GiF lim picked up. Aureal pointed out that Klick is more dismissive than usual, and that he might be trying to pocket me and tbh I can kinda see it. I wanna go here for now

What is Aureal's reference for thinking I'm more dismissive than usual?

[Klick]

I want klick or black. I don't think dunn is particularly scummy.

Do you have a full sense of reads on everyone at this point and if so can you share them? Or is that not how you approach things generally

[Klick]

I'll repeat, when is the last time a scum actually got caught in a game thread for """fishing"""

An alternative explanation is that I don't give a shit about actual role utility beyond using it to solve behaviourally, which is observable in my behaviour all across the site

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

I'm not feeling this slot atm. I don't like how he positioned himself on the DE wagon after DE was his top townread. I also don't like the way he did it by saying he's sheeping PB which relieved him of the responsibility of the mislim. I didn't like how he handled the kuribo bread crumbing and I didn't like how he had GiF at the bottom of his reads list but voted for DE after traction on a GiF lim picked up. Aureal pointed out that Klick is more dismissive than usual, and that he might be trying to pocket me and tbh I can kinda see it. I wanna go here for now

What is Aureal's reference for thinking I'm more dismissive than usual?

Here's her answer, paraphrased:

She has only played with you once but she found you to be very patient and interested in the "whys" and discussing them. She said you weren't even the smallest bit dismissive that game so any amount of dismissiveness here is more than she expects. Even your opening "come at me scum ducks" gave her weird vibes because it doesn't feel like (to her) that you have an aggressive bone in your body (fwiw I think I disagree here at least). Then she mentioned a trick you played on Andante to see if she was reading but she noted that even there you were very nice about it

Well now I feel bad >_<

The Micro we played in was a very low-stress environment for me with a ton of players that were either really chill or people I actively consider friends - I think mykonian specifically joined to play a game with me before we both met IRL at Eastermeet, for example. I joined that game specifically because I really really liked the playerlist and felt like it would reliably be a very nice time.

In contrast, I'm feeling really frustrated with this game in general. It's not very fun. I feel like I'm solving because I have to rather than because I'm enjoying it.
I'm going to consciously try to chill out significantly in this game from now on. Not necessarily in terms of how hard I'm trying to solve, but in terms of how much I feel invested, I suppose.

Also when I said 'come at me scumducks' I was rather drunk >_>

[Klick]

VOTE: Titus

[Klick]

why

She has felt vaguely scummy to me for some time now

[Klick]

Can I get more

I don't really have more that leads to anything conclusive

I thought her early play was towny but since the first like 48 hours she has felt simultaneously like she is both controlling the meta-narrative and fading into the background

I think she would try to control the gamestate as town or as scum, but I feel like she has done it in a UTR way that feels off to me

That also describes most of the times I have seen scum!Titus but I don't have a lot of reference to compare that to town!Titus

[Klick]

Can I get more

I am objecting to Klick fishing.

I'll repeat, when is the last time a scum actually got caught in a game thread for """fishing"""

An alternative explanation is that I don't give a shit about actual role utility beyond using it to solve behaviourally, which is observable in my behaviour all across the site

[Klick]

Can I get more

I don't really have more that leads to anything conclusive

I thought her early play was towny but since the first like 48 hours she has felt simultaneously like she is both controlling the meta-narrative and fading into the background

I think she would try to control the gamestate as town or as scum, but I feel like she has done it in a UTR way that feels off to me

That also describes most of the times I have seen scum!Titus but I don't have a lot of reference to compare that to town!Titus

This is disingenuous. I only "fly under the radar" when IRL or my health dictate it.

That post is not 'disingenuous' unless you try really hard to look at it in the worst possible light like you're currently doing
'Disingenuous' implies a lot about my intentions that isn't indicated by that post
You're either confbiased or scum

[Klick]

Can I get more

I don't really have more that leads to anything conclusive

I thought her early play was towny but since the first like 48 hours she has felt simultaneously like she is both controlling the meta-narrative and fading into the background

I think she would try to control the gamestate as town or as scum, but I feel like she has done it in a UTR way that feels off to me

That also describes most of the times I have seen scum!Titus but I don't have a lot of reference to compare that to town!Titus

This is disingenuous. I only "fly under the radar" when IRL or my health dictate it.

That post is not 'disingenuous' unless you try really hard to look at it in the worst possible light like you're currently doing
'Disingenuous' implies a lot about my intentions that isn't indicated by that post
You're either confbiased or scum

Wrong. Counterpoint: Nashville Dreams. Ty.

I felt the exact same thing in NQNM2 as I do here. Like that's literally the primary source I have.

[Klick]

Is this all about whether we got flavor or not? I got flavor D1, it didn't feel relevant to talk about and I skimmed most posts that talked about purely role stuff

[Klick]

I was a crazy preacher conspiracy occult person

[Klick]

Wait Titus, I think I had things backwards. Are you looking for who had your actual role on D1, or who has your D1 role today?

The latter.

Wait why are you looking for people that have the VT role?

I'm not. I have a role d2. Was trying to match the d1. I screwed up thinking we could confirm someone's alignment that way.

*gasp*
Is this... fishing?

[Klick]

alisae takes
ircher drixx fa gif
Kuribo titus klick
black std pb
shea dunn

Spicy

I feel pretty confident in Black town, I don't think this is her scum game at all and some of her takes seem very genuine

I could vote Dunn, I can't help myself but vote for the scumread who is positioned better in Titus but Dunn has pretty good odds of flipping scum imo

Interested in your Shea read as well as your confidence in FA/GIF town. If I can actually rely on your GIF read I feel like it greatly simplifies this game because it means a lot of my more questionable slots like Shea/Dunn/PB are just scum