Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[Altaria]

hi!

yes i'm an alt

no i didn't realize ALTaria would be the perfect alt name, i just love the Pokemon lol

[Altaria]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Altaria]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This feels like a name I would call Alianna.

You are too easy to expose, Amaretto

i will be your alianna as long as it makes you think i'm town and you'll let me pocket you

[Altaria]

but you're scum

i think alianna would vote for scum if she were town here

[Altaria]

I think we should find out who's scum and then vote them

then why aren't you voting for drew?

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them

hu tao is from genshin

i just love the Pokemon lol

I am playing thru Pokemon Fool's Gold right now, it's quite interesting.

i haven't played this hack yet is it fun?

[Altaria]

Also @Altaria tell me about Drew

once upon a time there was a man named drew

[Altaria]

And Umlaut should be voting Drew why?

because drew is scum i thought i made this clear

I think we should find out who's scum and then vote them

then why aren't you voting for drew?

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them

hu tao is from genshin

i just love the Pokemon lol

I am playing thru Pokemon Fool's Gold right now, it's quite interesting.

i haven't played this hack yet is it fun?

Its fun, especially since i like gen 2. However there are too many Flying types.

i will not accept this flying type slander

VOTE: Gob

[Altaria]

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

[Altaria]

i think that's e-2

[Altaria]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

[Altaria]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

That's generous.

what's your interpretation of it?

[Altaria]

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

Well this is a fake read. You didn't even ask the reason as to why I voted gob in the first place so how could you know this?

VOTE: altaria

fake read? i made an assumption based on a gut feeling. only scum know the true motivation behind posts, the rest of us have to determine which alignment it comes from

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Agrees and then vote them

i reassessed my read after realizing there could be town motivations behind your "why me" stuff. and yeah i think umlaut's push on kyouko is bad. agreeing with someone doesn't make them town. he could know you're town and picked you as an easy defense to seem busy. this just feels like shade

[Altaria]

it's shade because you're trying to make me look bad by pointing out that i agreed with him and then voted for him. i don't think i'm the defensive one here, you omgus voted me and then tried to make fun of me

[Altaria]

scumreading me for a fake read even after i re-evaluated that read doesn't make me feel like you are trying to sort me in good faith

[Altaria]

scumreading me for a fake read even after i re-evaluated that read doesn't make me feel like you are trying to sort me in good faith

Then why not vote me?

Seems like you're saying this for validation rather than an actual scumread

i don't really think you're scum tbh. i'm more inclined to believe you just want to be right here which is preventing you from re-evaluating me

[Altaria]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Wait is "she" in this post Hu Tao and not me? I misread that if so

yes i was responding to umlaut wrt Hu Tao

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Asking about your Drew read though - you're saying that as of post 33 you have a read on Drew? That seems hard to believe, and even if it were the case that from that short exchange you two had, you garnered a read, I would expect some kind of material response to why Umlaut should be voting drew, not "because he's scum" or maybe even a material response when I asked you to tell me about Drew. Something feels off here

VOTE: Altaria

i don't have a read on Drew. that was rvs stuff

[Altaria]

because you were asking for my read on drew

[Altaria]

scumreading me for a fake read even after i re-evaluated that read doesn't make me feel like you are trying to sort me in good faith

this post (and others) just make my head hurt.
I like games with certainties.

VOTE: altaria

what? this is easily the worst vote on my wagon

kyouko's was bad too but i think i lean town on her due to the pedantic nature of her posts so far. feels like newtown as opposed to scum

VOTE: geraintm

[Altaria]

Altaria locktown

More from me tomorrow.

why though?

[Altaria]

Altaria locktown

More from me tomorrow.

why though?

I feel like Dragon is a hot take sort of player

i mean he's right about me but i would like to see how he got there

[Altaria]

Sorry for my late arrival!

Altaria is locktown why you guys voting her?

Apart from a few mechanical reasons, never say this type of thing.

i think scum are more likely to be opposed to someone locktowning someone else, especially the person they are currently pushing. i also don't like how geraintm didn't answer dragoneater when he asked him to elaborate but maybe he just missed it

[Altaria]

Yes. Post 45 seems forced, they voted me based on the gob vote but I never explained my gob vote. If they were curious about it then they would have just asked me before voting or suspecting me.

I didn't get the impression she voted you for 31, I thought she was voting you for 39 and 41

dragoneater is right. your "why" made me feel like you were concerned about the vote and i didn't like how you accepted "why not" as an answer originally

i'm not sure how this wasn't obvious to you after 55?

also i disagree with the assessment that i would have just asked you about it before putting pressure on you. sometimes people use voting as a way to communicate

[Altaria]

well it was a good theory while it lasted drew

[Altaria]

wait where did the second "n" go? is this a mandela effect

[Altaria]

VOTE: gob

[Altaria]

i'm liking aliana's thoughts so far

[Altaria]

Uhh.
What is that abomination?

i have never seen anything like that before

[Altaria]

VOTE: gob

I don't understand what gob is doing but I'm not convinced he isn't just limbait.
Any particular reason to vote him?

i spent like 10 minutes looking over gob's most recently completed game because i was thinking his play is weird here and wanted to see what he was like elsewhere. he rolled scum in that game. i saw posts like 41 where he dodges a question with a question, posts like 111 where he shows disapproval of wagons for no real reason, and posts like 176 where he avoids explaining reads by saying he's just making stuff off/saying things just to say them

i haven't had the chance to read a town game of his to see if this is consistent but i want to vote here for now

[Altaria]

open 891

[Altaria]

these are some of the posts that stood out to me. it's not the strongest read but for page 8 it feels good enough. i also just want gob to do something instead of "taking it easy" and not taking things seriously so hopefully this helps

why is titus scum

why not?

I don't think it's Roden.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Why

Why not

I was just throwing it out there lol

I was just throwing it out there lol

So there's no reason why you feel like it can't be her? You're just saying it to say it? What's the point?

I like saying out of pocket shit to see what people say

[Altaria]

I'm just not in the mood today and I wasnt yesterday either.

did something happen in-game to cause this or is it unrelated?

[Altaria]

meta is fine, and aliana just said she could see where i was coming from. i don't think she is blindly following. in fact she was trying to look for herself to come to her own conclusion

gob maybe you should get some rest

[Altaria]

Might give it some time before I vote there though.

do you have any specific thoughts on umlaut?

[Altaria]

VOTE: Dragon

Lol, literally just said defcon is not a good game for a meta read on anyone.

So you voting me for doing the same thing Aliana did while I was clearly responding to things from last page?

Wtf Drew.

No I am voting you because you are throwing out reads with no substance behind them.

i like this. i got some pockety vibes from dragoneater townlocking me and i don't really think the reasons for doing so are that strong

i'm willing to give gob the benefit of the doubt for now. i feel like voting him got him to do some stuff at least

VOTE: Dragon

[Altaria]

I can tell you from experience that it's extremely easy to spot scum Alianna by tone, and this was her town tone

what does aliana's scum tone sound like?

[Altaria]

VOTE: Dragon

Lol, literally just said defcon is not a good game for a meta read on anyone.

So you voting me for doing the same thing Aliana did while I was clearly responding to things from last page?

Wtf Drew.

No I am voting you because you are throwing out reads with no substance behind them.

i like this. i got some pockety vibes from dragoneater townlocking me and i don't really think the reasons for doing so are that strong

i'm willing to give gob the benefit of the doubt for now. i feel like voting him got him to do some stuff at least

VOTE: Dragon

What's the difference between a town townreading you and a scum pocket, vibes-wise?

that's a great question. i guess i like to see better reasons behind such a strong townread. i'm not sure really

[Altaria]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

why

[Altaria]

VOTE: dragon eater

interesting that was not the longest wagon

my thoughts exactly

VOTE: Doctor Drew

why

I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here

why do you think drew is pocketing me and not dragon?

[Altaria]

@Altaria - why am I pocketing you? Because I had an early strong read? I often have those.

i want to hear kyouko's thoughts here

Also Drew is pretty obviously trying to buddy both you and Aliana, IDK how you could not see that

Like it could be town!Drew buddying but it's definitely buddying, no question.

can you elaborate? why is it so obvious that drew is buddying us? can you show me examples?

[Altaria]

those types of posts are common from drew regardless of alignment iirc

[Altaria]

i think they are nai at best

[Altaria]

i find it a little strange how both kyouko and dragon came in with the "you're being pocketed by drew" angle. if one of these flips scum I would be inclined to believe the other could also be in that pt

[Altaria]

VOTE: dragon eater

interesting that was not the longest wagon

my thoughts exactly

VOTE: Doctor Drew

why

I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here

why do you think drew is pocketing me and not dragon?

Are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and not pocketing Dragon?
Or are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and why I don't think Dragon is pocketing you?

the latter

[Altaria]

Well after I was pinged by the Drew vote that felt "gotcha" to me I went and looked back at Drew's posting, not so much at Dragon's, so if it's there I didn't see it. I'll look shortly.

that doesn't explain why you think drew is hard pocketing me

[Altaria]

UNVOTE: Doctor Drew

I cant remember what I said before, but Drew seems towny for sure here.

VOTE: Altaria

why do you think i am scum

[Altaria]

is that what your read is based on?

[Altaria]

No not really but I am wondering. Was I right?

no

[Altaria]

I'm not seeing the drew scumread so far

what do you think about the dragon scumread?

[Altaria]

so why aren't you voting for him

[Altaria]

oh i don't even know the vote count

[Altaria]

vc

looks like he's working on it. or maybe not lol

[Altaria]

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

[Altaria]

essentially yep

[Altaria]

do you think dragon is town?

[Altaria]

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

Still down to vote Umlaut?

i'm with drew...i would prefer dragon as well. it doesn't help that kyouko is on the umlaut wagon and i have a gut feeling she could be a dragon partner

[Altaria]

I am pretty nai on Umlaut. Dragoneater I feel over explains themselves too much. Which is a sign of mafia.

ACTUALLY WITH THIS SAID

UNVOTE: Dragoneater[/unote]

We should actually keep Dragon Eater alive and instead vote someone else. DragonEater can be shot at night or something.
But generally it's bad practice to vote off the obv-wolf Day 1, since it makes the other ones harder to catch.

Are you literally saying that voting scum on D1 is a bad town strat??

It depends on the setup, generally. The idea is that if you keep obv!maf alive to spew the other and anti-spew others.

why do you think dragon is obvious scum from your pov

[Altaria]

I'm also starting to get sus of Gob but I'm not sure why.

same but my read is based on the game of his i was reading the other day. he was scum with gamma and tried to act like he was ok limming them but he kept saying LAMIST stuff like "let's not hammer early" and "i think it's best we wait". i think if dragon flips scum then that could implicate gob somewhat but its not a sure thing

[Altaria]

kyouko can we get a list of your reads?

[Altaria]

tbh, the only difference is that you're posting in this game. I'm not saying it's a major difference, just that it's different. I do acknowledge you were V/LA, but who knows, maybe you were just a bored VT in Large 245 and in this one you got a scum role pm and are now all jazzed up to play. I'm not ready to champion a wagon on you, but I am going to be more dubious of you.

i feel like this type of read is more likely to come from town even though i don't really agree with it

[Altaria]

i feel good about celebloki

[Altaria]

I am pretty nai on Umlaut. Dragoneater I feel over explains themselves too much. Which is a sign of mafia.

ACTUALLY WITH THIS SAID

UNVOTE: Dragoneater[/unote]

We should actually keep Dragon Eater alive and instead vote someone else. DragonEater can be shot at night or something.
But generally it's bad practice to vote off the obv-wolf Day 1, since it makes the other ones harder to catch.

Are you literally saying that voting scum on D1 is a bad town strat??

It depends on the setup, generally. The idea is that if you keep obv!maf alive to spew the other and anti-spew others.

why do you think dragon is obvious scum from your pov

I wouldn't say dargon is obvious scum. But its more like they're likely scum and it's better to keep those players around so they spew others one way or the other.

no. i think you should declare intent to hammer so dragon can claim

[Altaria]

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

you could wait until intent to hammer if you want but it's up to you

[Altaria]

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

[Altaria]

i would also be ok with umlaut here

[Altaria]

I mean I'm also okay with either

i'm assuming your preference is gob since your vote is there. can you go over your umlaut read?

[Altaria]

I'm also starting to get sus of Gob but I'm not sure why.

I'm also fine with a gob flash wagon

VOTE: gob

i don't like this after hu tao also voted for dragon with little to no reason. it just feels like she just wants to lim someone instead of trying to figure out who might be scum. obviously this read dissipates if gob flips scum but yeah

[Altaria]

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Altaria]

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

I thought he could be limbait, and I do still think that is a possibility, but I've been pretty consistent in that I'm not townreading or defending him for it.

do you think gob is scummier than umlaut?

[Altaria]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

[Altaria]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

[Altaria]

Altaria, what is your reason to vote Hu Tao?

i don't think she is too concerned with trying to solve the game and i feel like that's more likely to come from scum. i think she just wants a lim to go through and doesn't feel like putting in effort to decide if it's a good idea or not

[Altaria]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

it doesn't. i just have a feeling gob

is

limbait and that's an easy thing for scum to push

[Altaria]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

[Altaria]

drew my issue with you is you haven't really said much about or interacted with gob at all and suddenly you're fine hammering him because what...he thinks voting scum D1 is a bad idea? yes that's a pretty crappy opinion but how does that make him scum? i could maybe see if you thought he was scum with dragon but dragon claimed JK so i doubt that's how you feel

[Altaria]

Why are you so adamant they aren't?

cool, way to dodge my question

i'll still cooperate and answer yours though. I think gob could still be scum but i think it's more likely scum is pushing him. and if dragon's claim is real then scum was probably pushing there too

[Altaria]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

it doesn't. i just have a feeling gob

is

limbait and that's an easy thing for scum to push

But the speed and nature of the wagon are what gave you the feeling that gob is limbait being pushed by scum?

i've been going back and forth on gob. the wagon dynamics made it swing the other way for now

[Altaria]

And do you buy Dragons claim at face value? I don't, but can worry about that tomorrow.

What we can do is lim the person who bent over backwards trying to protect, who they even admit is scummy, with shoddy logic at best.

Or lim Hu, who is disengaged I guess?

i do kinda like this from you. i have a theory why gob started defending dragon so hard but i want to hear him talk about it

and yeah if two people are mildly scummy i want to lim the person that is lurking in the background over the guy trying to do stuff

[Altaria]

i'm low-key getting town pings from drew here. he is acting like a frustrated townie that is upset with another townie for preventing the hammer/claim on someone he thinks is scum

the only thing i don't get is why he would be so sure about scum gob here

[Altaria]

Aliana, but I am not even calling Altaria scum here.

Did you think I was?

Lol, maybe I don't get what you were saying.
I thought you were implying Altaria was jumping on a counterwagon to save her buddy gob.

I want to understand why not gob over Hu.

If she is scum then will just expose herself.

how? she is barely playing the game. why do you think she will expose herself but gob won't?

[Altaria]

Aliana, but I am not even calling Altaria scum here.

Did you think I was?

Lol, maybe I don't get what you were saying.
I thought you were implying Altaria was jumping on a counterwagon to save her buddy gob.

I want to understand why not gob over Hu.

If she is scum then will just expose herself.

how? she is barely playing the game. why do you think she will expose herself but gob won't?

I meant you will expose yourself as scum.

Was talking to Aliana about my read on you if that wasn't clear.

ok

why do you townread hu tao?

[Altaria]

how am i sheeping umlaut when i expressed suspicion there before he even voted?

i'll admit i considered not going there because i'm still somewhat suspicious of umlaut but i think the way hu tao has tagged along on both the dragon and gob wagons outweighs those worries about umlaut

i'm a little wary of you and aliana but y'all are both putting in more effort than hu tao. i think celebloki and drew are town, and i know i'm town, so i'm not sure why you think it's a bad look for me to push hu tao here

[Altaria]

Aliana, but I am not even calling Altaria scum here.

Did you think I was?

Lol, maybe I don't get what you were saying.
I thought you were implying Altaria was jumping on a counterwagon to save her buddy gob.

I want to understand why not gob over Hu.

If she is scum then will just expose herself.

how? she is barely playing the game. why do you think she will expose herself but gob won't?

I meant you will expose yourself as scum.

Was talking to Aliana about my read on you if that wasn't clear.

ok

why do you townread hu tao?

You missing everything I am saying if you ask me this question.

i want you to talk about your read on hu tao. can't you stop with the snark for two seconds and cooperate with me?

[Altaria]

are you always this difficult to talk to?

[Altaria]

I am trying to figure out why you, and again Umlaut, chose THIS VERY MOMENT to do so when if you had suspicions of Hu beforehand like you claim, you could have pushed her.

i feel like i made it clear that it was the gob wagon that made me feel like we were headed for a mislim and that hu tao was a prime culprit in that

Why only now, at this very specific moment in the day, do you try to move the imminent lim off of gob onto to someone else.

because that's when the gob wagon got all the way to e-1 and then you declared intent. why are you not understanding that it was the wagon that gave me second thoughts? why would i have pushed hu tao before the wagon even happened if that was the driving force behind my read?

[Altaria]

I will only defend Hu since this jump seems so so suss, and now you are just getting super defensive and acting like I am the one being obtuse here, instead of understanding what my issue is that I keep saying.

i thought you weren't calling me scum here? now it's "so so suss"?

also super defensive? what the heck...

[Altaria]

i didn't lash out at you. i got frustrated that you weren't answering my questions. sorry. maybe trying to work with you was a bad idea

[Altaria]

VOTE: gob

i don't care anymore

[Altaria]

for the last time. it was the wagon gaining so much traction that made me think it could be a mislim. when i wrote 444 that was the moment i thought it could be hu, not 20 posts before that

i have no clue why you can't seem to grasp this

[Altaria]

It is just the timing of how it all went down here really screams to me that you didn't think the Gob wagon would move so quickly so you panicked to get another wagon going, and how you didn't start the wagon on Umlaut, and instead followed him onto Hu, while throwing a bit of shade onto Aliana who put Gob at e-1

i thought that scum was pushing the gob wagon. i didn't vote for umlaut because he wasn't part of that. i'm not saying this was a great read but it's how i felt in the moment. this is also why i was sus of aliana. i didn't like how she casually joined the wagon because i was under the impression she still felt like he was limbait

i'm giving you your intent back. if gob flips scum I'll eat my words and let you push me as his partner tomorrow. i really don't care anymore

[Altaria]

how am i sheeping umlaut when i expressed suspicion there before he even voted?

i'll admit i considered not going there because i'm still somewhat suspicious of umlaut but i think the way hu tao has tagged along on both the dragon and gob wagons outweighs those worries about umlaut

i'm a little wary of you and aliana but y'all are both putting in more effort than hu tao. i think celebloki and drew are town, and i know i'm town, so i'm not sure why you think it's a bad look for me to push hu tao here

So I'm scum because I'm not putting enough effort in for your liking?

that's certainly one way to phrase it

i think you could be scum because you're not really doing much solving, you want to end the day for a reason i don't think makes much sense, and you're just jumping from wagon to wagon without much reasoning

[Altaria]

yeah drew is probably town, but it was pretty frustrating having to repeat myself about why i pushed you when i did, only to be met with "i don't understand the timing" over and over again

[Altaria]

how am i sheeping umlaut when i expressed suspicion there before he even voted?

i'll admit i considered not going there because i'm still somewhat suspicious of umlaut but i think the way hu tao has tagged along on both the dragon and gob wagons outweighs those worries about umlaut

i'm a little wary of you and aliana but y'all are both putting in more effort than hu tao. i think celebloki and drew are town, and i know i'm town, so i'm not sure why you think it's a bad look for me to push hu tao here

So I'm scum because I'm not putting enough effort in for your liking?

that's certainly one way to phrase it

i think you could be scum because you're not really doing much solving, you want to end the day for a reason i don't think makes much sense, and you're just jumping from wagon to wagon without much reasoning

I started the gob quick wagon. So if I'm scum are you saying I'm saving my scum teammate dragon after making him claim? Or are you saying I'm scum who wanted to remove pressure off one town to another?

the latter. why are you making it sound unlikely that scum would push another townie after the first person they pushed claimed?

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

If you want

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

you could wait until intent to hammer if you want but it's up to you

I'm also fine with a gob flash wagon

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

You literally followed my lead, then complained about it after.

Altaria could be scum, maybe I was right before.

that's a pretty disingenuous representation of my read

[Altaria]

I think his question was very clear, it seemed more like you not answering and trying to flip it as something else

how so?

[Altaria]

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

If you want

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

you could wait until intent to hammer if you want but it's up to you

I'm also fine with a gob flash wagon

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

You literally followed my lead, then complained about it after.

Altaria could be scum, maybe I was right before.

can you elaborate on this read? unless you think i'm partnered with gob i don't understand why this would make you think i'm scum again

[Altaria]

cool hammer

[Altaria]

POG

[Altaria]

VOTE: Umlaut

in light of the gob flip i obviously don't think scum was pushing him now. i'll probably be a huge target today but i know i'm town, so i want to vote for the other person that tried to stop the gob lim from happening

i think it's possible someone could have been bussing and if so it's probably just geraintm, but i wanted to go umlaut yesterday and i want to even more now

i feel really good about drew and hu tao. if gob's partner was off his wagon and it isn't umlaut then my gut tells me it could be kyouko since she tried really hard to case me when the gob thing was happening

[Altaria]

Maybe we get a perfect town win.
@Dragon - who was jailed?

i think we just yeet the jailed target but scum could have no killed to set that up. we can worry about that D3 though

[Altaria]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

so what was this about?

[Altaria]

Sigh, I got my wires crossed and thought 372 was you and not Kyouko.

So my question is actually for

@Kyouko

, why don't you think Drew is a possibility today? I know I'm the only one voting him right this second but he had a pretty sizeable wagon going, why not push for what you want with three days still on the clock?

Well I've made my case on Drew and while it was convincing for some (you, maybe one other), I seem to recall other people acknowledging it and disagreeing with the conclusion, calling it more NAI than scum-indicative. Drew's wagon reached an apex of 4 (e-2) and when geraintm voted Dragon, bringing the wagons to a tie, I think is where the momentum stopped. I think if geraintm had voted the largest wagon on Drew and E-1ed him this day might have gone differently. Maybe that wasn't accidental by geraintm. Then we got an unvote from Dragon and the wagon at that point I think was definitely dead when it lost the vote from the player it was counter to. It doesn't help to have Celebloki not contributing at this point, but iirc one of the few things he did comment on is that he gets deja vu vibes from Drew vs Dragon from when Drew was Town and Dragon was scum. So at one point 8/10 players were voting for one of Drew/Dragon and people seemed firmly in one camp or the other. One of the two not voting those 2 was leaning more toward Dragon if push came to shove I think. So yeah, I don't think Drew is happening toDay.

I'm not pushing more for it now because I would just be repeating the same arguments that I've already made and I'm pretty sure everyone has read them and that's how we got the wagons to 4-4 in the first place. I don't think continuing to push Drew toDay will result in his flip so I'll focus my efforts elsewhere for toDay and we will have associatives to work with toMorrow.

3 sentences or less my friend.

this is funny because gob did this exact same thing to his scum buddy Crescent in the game i read of his

maybe it's just kyouko here

[Altaria]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

[Altaria]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

so what was this about?

It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAI

can you tell us what it was

[Altaria]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

There's a significant chance that Dragon was the NK target himself, being the only claimed PR.

uhh i really would have liked that to come from her mouth but alrighty

[Altaria]

ok

[Altaria]

VOTE: Umlaut


i think it's possible someone could have been bussing and if so it's probably just geraintm, but i wanted to go umlaut yesterday and i want to even more now

You think I bussed my partner from out of nowhere, when I could have let them claim to try and save themselves?

no. i think it's either umlaut or kyouko

but if scum did bus then i think your hammer doesn't really clear you. drew had declared intent anyway. gob was a gonner

[Altaria]

i think umlaut and kyouko have the worst interactions with gob

aliana was a little hesitant to go there but eventually put it to e-1

hu tao and drew are pretty much locktown fmpov. i haven't looked into celebloki's interactions with gob yet but i still think he's town

we should trust dragon for as long as we can but i don't like how gob tried to save him with his backwards reasoning. reminds me somewhat of the last game he played where he tried to stop a gamma lim from happening

think my PoE is {umlaut, kyouko, aliana} and probably in that order

let's see what dragon has to say

[Altaria]

i feel like i did so good...

[Altaria]

bummer

[Altaria]

i feel like i did so good...

I wouldn't have suspected it if you didn't slip.

was it the lowercase? XD

[Altaria]

ugh this is embarrasing

i hate alts

[Altaria]

no offense aliana

[Altaria]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

[Altaria]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

I don't think I'd try to meta read you this game after how well it worked for me last time lol.

it never works for anyone but yet they keep doing it to me

i feel like you already didn't trust me this game and now you never will

[Altaria]

i think umlaut and kyouko have the worst interactions with gob

...

we should trust dragon for as long as we can but i don't like how gob tried to save him with his backwards reasoning. reminds me somewhat of the last game he played where he tried to stop a gamma lim from happening

I would agree about Kyouko and Umlaut with regards to their interactions to gob.

In that second bit, are you referring to Large 245 where he was basically trolling Gamma all game, trying to lim her, then at the last second changed his mind when others started to try and join in?

I'm not 100% sure I agree about Drew. He definitely went hard on the gob wagon at the end and said he had intent to hammer, but I wonder if that couldn't have been performative. I'd say there's a good chance Dragon would have jailed Drew last night. They were goin at each other quite a bit before Dragon claimed.

open 891

i don't see the harm in talking about what we think while we wait

It's mostly because I'm lazy. Why go through the work of forming reads now when we're waiting on a crucial piece of info? And if it is as simple as executing whoever was jailed, why put in the effort?

well for me i just want to be able to say I was right. and i want to show people i'm town after the whole gob fiasco

[Altaria]

but yeah i don't mind people waiting for dragon

[Altaria]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY ONE GAME WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T TRY TO META READ ME

I don't think I'd try to meta read you this game after how well it worked for me last time lol.

it never works for anyone but yet they keep doing it to me

i feel like you already didn't trust me this game and now you never will

It's...admittedly difficult to keep my townread on you now that I have this knowledge.

ngl i thought you scumread me already after the interaction with drew. i'm a little surprised you don't

[Altaria]

well if it makes you feel any better, I recently decided I'd only meta read people based on completed games I've played with them. I did some meta diving when I came back from hiatus and was in Open 890. Everyone in that game was talking about meta and I felt lost. I went and read some games and decided after that game I wasn't going to do that again.

So at least for now I am blind to your meta lol.

i like you

[Altaria]

i feel like i did so good...

Naur.. You did great. Didn't know it was you. Makes me want to make a secret account now

You totally should

[Altaria]

Well they probably tried right? We just fade the JK target and work from there

[Altaria]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

[Altaria]

How does it work if JK keeps scum but scum kills JK? I thought scum kills JK in that scenario?

I'm actually not sure about the order of events. I'm sure it's on the wiki somewhere

[Altaria]

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

Looks like Block is above Kill, if I'm looking at the right thing

[Altaria]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

Yeah it doesn't feel super likely, but my paranoid brain is telling me they could do this and then act like it's not super likely

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

[Altaria]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

[Altaria]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

If Dragon was roleblocked, that should be claimed, right?

I want to say yeah but I don't think that's likely here. The RBer would be trolling

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

Continuing this thought. If you managed to fade a townie on D4 then you could get to kill another on N4 and then it would be ELO with you an 2 townies

The other play for you would be to kill Dragon N1 and then you're stuck with 8 townies that you have to get through

Does this play really sound all that bad from a scum!you perspective?

[Altaria]

CRAP

[Altaria]

Can I just be replaced by my main account or something? XD

[Altaria]

I was just in a game recently where Elements did this with an alt account. She ultimately replaced in with her main account lol.

I will message the mod. I guess the only downside would be the split isos