Mini 2282 | Masqué | Postgame
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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It was a dream and not a nightmare, and in it I lead a successful push against an intruder. I have an archetypal memory of the intruder though I'm unclear on the application of this as there were only a few posts written at the time I fell asleep. I hope that I will have another dream (or nightmare..) focused on this game tonight. My interpretation of my dream is that I will become fixated on a player and lose the game unless I receive significant help from other players.In post 10, Masquerader Purple wrote:Hello Red and Magenta, I'm here as well. I'm about to fall asleep on the floor and have a dream (or nightmare.) It would be best if I can talk to you first, in case my dream is about this game.
I have two surface-level reads: blue looks masqué; olive looks intruder. The rest of you feel unclear to me and need to post more about what you want. I feel an impulse to extend an invitation to pair with blue and I will refrain due to my interpretation of my dream. There's a good chance I will be back soon to post more about what I want.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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That's not true; olive has done two things (you overlooked that they revealed to us they had trouble logging into their account) and both things were written with the intent to get others to like them rather than to uncover information about the identity of the intruders or to disclose meaningful information about themselves.In post 31, Masquerader Red wrote:Purple, what makes you read Olive as intruder when the one thing they've done is give a read you agree with?
Are you still confused about why you should not trust olive, red?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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That's an excellent observation about my opinion being tone-driven which I did not consider. I believe that there is an earnest tone to their writing and I interpret it to be indicative of an intruder when saying writing something which seems very obvious that others will not object to. However, I do not interpret earnestness to be indicative of an intruder in and of itself. For example, I read earnestness or at least enthusiasm in your opening posts and did not consider it to be indicative of your alignment in either way.In post 34, Masquerader Red wrote:I don't think expressing difficulty logging in is meaningful in the way you describe; it seems more personality-driven than alignment-driven. I find it hard to believe that there are many people who, after having difficulty logging in, would specifically make a post complaining about that as scum but not as town. Unless your opinion is more tone-driven, in which case, well, shrug.
That being said, while I believe you may be a skilled writer and sincere in your attempts to discover the intruders, I do not like your argument in the quote above. It reads to me like a version of refuge in audacity (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... n_Audacity) which is a mistake to adopt by principle; and I disagree that it's even relevant to olive. I consider olive's comment about logging in to play the game to be mundane, and perhaps leading to a separate rationale for suspecting them which you may prefer: they are so uninterested in playing the game due to immediately perceiving us all as bumbling masqués that the most stimulating experience for them thus far (after meeting their intruder companion, which they will be careful to not imply) was logging into their account.
If you are passionate about arguing in favor of refuge in audacity then I want to continue discussing it, as I am passionate about arguing against it and would love to be proven wrong. While I do not believe olive expressing difficulty logging into their account is either bold or audacious or something especially unlikely an intruder would think of doing, I find teal's formal request to be paired with a moderator to be quite audacious, and is something I would be too timid to even think of doing myself regardless of alignment! Do you believe that teal is more likely to be sincere due to an intruder being unlikely to request pairing with a moderator?
I like your second argument in favor of olive much better, but I'm having difficulty organizing your two arguments separately as quotes into my reply and I feel I've already offered you more than enough information for you to write something insightful of your own, so I will address your second argument in favor of olive later tonight.
- (If you noticed what I did there, yes it was intentional: do you think an intruder is especially unlikely to express difficulty understanding how to divide your post into separate quotes and respond to all of them within the same reply? Do you believe that is a good reason for you to trust me? I encourage you to distrust both olive and myself for implying you should think so.)
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I find your implication here ugly on both an aesthetic and a practical level, yellow, and especially unlikely to progress toward winning the game. I believe categorizing lines as those that are agenda driven and those that are not to be an unhelpful way to view the game, as most of the content written in this game will have some agenda behind it in some way shape or form, even if it's purely for self-amusement. Your statement is also an oxymoron in that I asked a question: it's assumed I have an agenda of inducing red to reveal information about himself. (is this pronoun acceptable to you, red, or do you prefer they or she or something else?)In post 40, Masquerader Yellow wrote:
Yeah this line looks agenda driven.In post 32, Masquerader Purple wrote:Are you still confused about why you should not trust olive, red?
1) Do you know what I mean when I say your statement is an oxymoron, yellow?
The most critical issue I have with yellow's post isn't that it's aesthetically myopic and impractical on a number of levels, it's that it directly interferes with masqué's ability to win the game. Discrediting players who are obvious majority is an accepted tell in any developed social deduction game as it's necessary for the minority to do this in order to win the game (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29).
The fact that yellow is disregarding everything I've written to focus on the syntax of a single line and claim that it makes me less credible indicates a lack of strategic and social awareness about the game we are playing. Regardless of yellow's alignment it goes against their own win condition by damaging their credibility. They are furthering the agenda of the minority for superficial reasons in plain sight for all to see: why would we take yellow seriously, and what does yellow have to gain from doing that? The answer is that yellow does not know what they are doing (unless they are playing dumb, which is always a possibility) and unless they can demonstrate more strategic and social awareness they are a liability if they are a masqué.
I believe this information is valuable purely because it comes from you.In post 41, Masquerader Yellow wrote:The usual phrasing would be "Äre you still confused
about why I do not trust olive, red?"
Not why red should not trust them.
Yes it was a proper and witty response. Fortunately, the rest of red's reply suggested they are thinking about the game and able to communicate their ideas effectively, something which you have not displayed thus far, yellow. You would have given yourself a chance to appreciate that if you were not skim reading our posts, yellow.In post 42, Masquerader Yellow wrote:
This is the proper response.In post 34, Masquerader Red wrote:Well, I'm certainly less confused as to why you don't trust them.
I do not believe that olive actually thinks yellow made a good point or that the way I worded my question actually appears to them as a perspective slip. You're in luck yellow: olive appears to be a wealth of information about the identity of the intruders. I believe that olive's reply indicates they know yellow is a masqué and would prefer to see us fight each other.In post 43, Masquerader Olive wrote:
Yeah, good point. I could see that as a possible perspective slip.In post 41, Masquerader Yellow wrote:The usual phrasing would be "Äre you still confused
about why I do not trust olive, red?"
Not why red should not trust them.
If you don't believe me, watch for olive's response (I know you posted "lolwut" a few minutes ago, olive, and are likely reading this soon after it's posted:)
Olive, why did you think yellow made a good point, and how is the way I worded my question a perspective slip?
I don't know if these are reads or if you're just stating your opinion in stream-of-consciousness. Do you believe players who you like are more common to be intruders or less likely? I'm not sure if there is any meaningful correlation as the intruders are often focused only on getting you to like them and can refrain from telling you when they dislike something you write.In post 44, Masquerader Yellow wrote:It's early but I like blue red and olive
and dislike purple and green so far.
If these are reads, I do agree with the majority of your reads except I don't believe you have any meaningful reason to trust olive (telling you what you want to hear isn't a meaningful reason to trust someone, yellow, it means they might be an intruder and you should be reading them with more scrutiny, not less) and obviously I believe the idea that you would distrust me based on my play so far to be comedic. I believe this list indicates yellow to be a strong contender to be eliminated first in order to improve masqués chances of winning the game.
2) Yellow, why did olive write that you made a good point and why do they believe my question to red indicates a perspective slip?
Yellow, I believe that you are likely to be a masqué, however, I have a suspicion that you are not reading any posts which contain multiple lines of text with the necessary level of scrutiny, and you are motivated in part to "dislike" me because you can't be bothered to read my posts, and are therefore an ideal candidate to be eliminated first (rather than myself who is able to read and write competently enough to play this game.) If you would like to prove me wrong, then demonstrate you can read:In post 45, Masquerader Yellow wrote:These pfps are jarring btwfind the two bolded underlined questions I asked you and reply to them.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I'm sorry that you had to be aligned as an intruder against me in one of your first social deduction games, olive. This is another tell indicating olive is an intruder which is accepted on principle in any developed social deduction game (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29). Players will usually only behave like olive when they are very inexperienced intruders.In post 48, Masquerader Olive wrote:
lolwut(If you noticed what I did there, yes it was intentional: do you think an intruder is especially unlikely to express difficulty understanding how to divide your post into separate quotes and respond to all of them within the same reply? Do you believe that is a good reason for you to trust me? I encourage you to distrust both olive and myself for implying you should think so.)
If we were aligned together olive I would do my best to help you handle this situation. Unfortunately --or fortunately -- it goes against my win condition to not attempt to induce you into as many mistakes as possible.
At this point in time I am vehemently against olive or yellow pairing with any player except each other, and I'm especially against either of them pairing with either red or blue.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Thank you.
I'm aware the discussion is getting heated and am taking care to attack the play rather than the player. If anyone feels I cross a line with them I hope to be informed directly as I made the error due to becoming overexcited about the game and the accompanying lack of social awareness, rather than deliberately through calculated malice.
If anyone feels uncomfortable informing me directly, perhaps a good solution is to PM a moderator so that they can inform me directly for you that an anonymous player would like me to tone it down, and I will tone it down with everyone once I receive that message. I have been bullied many times before and there is no shame in asserting yourself by contacting an authority to help you, in fact it can take great courage to do so.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I've only skimmed but I "like" magenta's and teal's posting. I will have to think about what this means with regards to their alignment.
FYI Magenta, I'm playing a character based on the idea of purple prose and the color purple being associated with moodiness and royalty, if that helps you parse my posts at all.
Hello green, why do you find teal suspect?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Fair enough, what does that mean with regards to my alignment?In post 71, Masquerader Green wrote:Purple at the top of this page seems to be very assertively smug, don't really like that from them.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Ah, I see. Do you think teal or magenta are also trying to mischaracter what I'm writing? They both wrote different variations of "I can't understand purple."In post 80, Masquerader Green wrote:
it's pretty obvious in context that your post is laying out why you think olive is not to be trusted, and that comment yellow took out of context is a directly follow-up saying "do you see why I'm saying this now?"In post 77, Masquerader Purple wrote:Green, why do you believe yellow took my post out of context due to being an intruder rather than a masqué jumping to conclusions?
also, no one is actually voting anyone yet, and I want that to change.
Have you thought about pairs, green?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I had a very unpleasant nightmare after writing last night and I have now realized it indicated the identity of one of the intruders.
Red, thank you for your detailed response, if I try my best to be open to the possibility I misread olive, will you extend the same grace toward teal?In post 56, Masquerader Red wrote:I feel there are significant odds that Purple and Olive are TvT.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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In post 76, Masquerader Green wrote:VOTE: Masquerader Yellow
This is where my suspicions point me currently. I do not trust the way they took Purple's post out of context.In post 82, Masquerader Green wrote:oh I thought this was just gonna be a regular game, huh
UNVOTE: Masquerader Yellow, and yellow is an intruder; therefore I am deducing that the intruders are green and yellow. Olive was my red herring and teal was red's red herring.Green doesn't want to appear aligned with yellow
Offer hand: Red
Offer hand: Olive
Offer hand: Blue
Offer hand: Teal
Offer hand: Magenta-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I am confident in my deduction and am ready to move forward. If new information is uncovered which suggests my deduction is incorrect then my intent to complete the puzzle will return, but as of now, the puzzle has already been completed for me. I will try to return regularly to see if there are any questions or updates.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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It appears best to arrange pairs by matching their chances of being invitee (which I previously called masqué, by mistake) and mismatching pairs based on the length they have gone to conceal their identity. I am used to constructing characters that match the account I am writing in (in fact I have experience and training for doing this) so I will be best paired with a masqué who is of higher-than-average chance to be an invitee and did not heed this warning:
I have done "obfuscating"
and I suggest olive accept my invitation.In post 72, Masquerader Green wrote:
I'm not explicitly trying to connect a face to a name but they seem to be imitating two people at once almost and that bothers me, as the first word I would describe it as would be "obfuscating".In post 70, Masquerader Purple wrote:I've only skimmed but I "like" magenta's and teal's posting. I will have to think about what this means with regards to their alignment.
FYI Magenta, I'm playing a character based on the idea of purple prose and the color purple being associated with moodiness and royalty, if that helps you parse my posts at all.
Hello green, why do you find teal suspect?
This is an acceptable description though I intend to insult the play rather than the player. However, you missed that I also want to dream, and I assure you I am less narcissistic in real life than I appear to be in-game.In post 108, Masquerader Yellow wrote:You want to intimidate and insult. Does that work for you?
In post 89, Masquerader Olive wrote:
fancy playstyle but I see they’ve now abandoned it, thank God.In post 67, Masquerader Magenta wrote:@olive, what's FPS posting?
It's easy for me to adapt though it's a double edged sword as I can never stay exactly the same for too long. I am phantasmagorical, and I will write my cases for you soon.In post 90, Masquerader Olive wrote:
Can you give me your case for both of them? And thank you for making your posts actually readable.In post 86, Masquerader Purple wrote:This game is won on the first elimination if we force yellow and green to pair with each other.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Honestly, I got ahead of myself here, this is not a reference to my main at all, this is metaphorical meaning I have professional experience with this kind of work (play ) in real life. I apologize for being unclear and will not write anything which could be misconstrued as a reference like this can beIn post 116, Masquerader Purple wrote:I am used to constructing characters that match the account I am writing in (in fact I have experience and training for doing this)-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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The automaton mechanic indicates that the intruders must guess the identity of both players simultaneously in order to kill them. This implies it's helpful to pair invitees so that at least one player is difficult to guess. I believe your dislike of fps play has caused you to take less precautions in protecting your identity than I have, so we will be safe in that regard, and I am eager because I believe that I extended an invitation to at least one intruder if not two. In other words, I'm hoping that you will protect me by not giving time for an intruder to pair with me, so I can protect you by making my identity difficult to spot, so we will not die if an automaton is used upon us.In post 121, Masquerader Olive wrote:Purple, why are you so eager to pair with me? Why do you think I specifically should accept your invitation? I don’t get it. You’ve gone from having me as your top intruder pick to to having me as your preferred partner? Why exactly?
As for the changing read, I misjudged you initially, and now I think I understand you better and I believe you are unlikely to be an intruder.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I have similar reservations with magenta. I also want them to answer red's question in 114. Better explanations from magenta would help a lot in my assessment of them.In post 121, Masquerader Olive wrote:One slot I’m kind of wondering about is magenta. They consider red negative but have most of the playerlist as likely intruders? If I misunderstood you magenta, I apologize but I don’t understand your takes. Perhaps yoican explain them better?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I also suspect teal tipped their hand in these two paragraphs and implied they know my play is bad and all three of myself, green and yellow are invitees.In post 94, Masquerader Teal wrote:Purple narrowing it down to two is interesting. I'm not sure I agree with purple's assessment. However, I think it's pretty attention grabby to blatantly call out two people as scum, and unless your partner was also lurking in the background I don't see the benefit it has to scum to be so flashy so for now I'm willing to put purple in the town column.
It is interesting, however, that in the story of yellow and green taking shots at each other, yellow fired the first stone, sussing the post green made about being sick (which seems like a throw-away suspicion to me). Maybe purple is onto something, yellow casting a little bit of shade onto a partner, having it be reciprocated later for distancing. I don't know if that's ultimately how I feel.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I don't know if the moderator accepts retractions:In post 125, Masquerader Olive wrote:Why don’t you just retract the invites you’re less sure of then?
I’m not entirely sure I understand the automan mechanic but I would strongly advise you to retract your invite to magenta.
What about what Yellow said about you using the word “mask”? Are you saying you know who I am? I really want to trust you but I’m scared.
Rescind offer to magenta
Rescind offer to teal
The automaton mechanic means that after pairs form, if the intruders can guess both of the identities correctly in that pair then both players will die instantly. Intruders have two chances at this.
Yellow is arguing that I slipped which is not likely to lead to good results in any circumstances I have witnessed. I also didn't use the word mask exactly, I used masqué, which this setup is named and one of the first words we all see when we click on this setup. I assumed the factions were masqué and intruder which I now know is inaccurate. I don't fully understand how yellow is perceiving that I slipped but yellow's conviction in it makes me think they might be an invitee who I upset earlier. And yes, that's what I'm implying.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I concur about cyan. I can see two intruders out of teal, magenta and green. I prefer one be left without a partner and the other two be paired together.In post 161, Masquerader Red wrote:Olive, what are you liking recently from Green? I can see Cyan being more town in the past page.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Magenta seems the most suspicious to me. I'm not sure where their interest in teal comes from or their suspicion of red. Magenta seems to be the most worried about finding a partner (and how they will be perceived for asking or accepting) and the least worried about finding the intruders. If they wish, olive can elaborate on the depth of their feelings toward magenta and I will listen. I have read magenta's recent posting and am not impressed.
Green looks like an invitee who was wrongly accused or an intruder who is angry because they feel they were caught for wrong reasons. I don't know. The fact they seem unlikely to receive a partner probably means they are most likely to be invitee of the players I suspect. It's possible that magenta saw through the layers of wifom and asked to be paired with teal so that they would end up paired green, however, unless someone objects, since magenta and green seem so anxious to receive a partner and haven't voiced too much suspicion of each other, why not pair up together?
Teal dropping out looks like intruder who was pushed from the beginning of the game and lost morale over time. It could also be an invitee who lost morale or became sick and ran out of energy, though I consider this alternative explanation less likely. It hasn't escaped my attention that despite their claims to be slow in forming reads, here as the eleventh hour approaches they are even more absent than they were at the beginning. I think teal avoided outting reads and when they did out reads they sounded suspicious. I prefer that teal be left without a partner just to be rid of them.
I'm a bit at odds with olive here on blue: I'm willing to gamble blue is invitee (though it would be amusing if the intruders were blue and teal and the intruders have given up posting altogether) and I'm optimistic their absence is as frustrating to the intruder's as it is to us. Red will likely be an ideal target to be killed with an automaton and being paired with new blue may be a double edged-sword. The intruders have little information to guess new blue's identity, as we have little information to sort them. I prefer to tempt fate and hope new blue's absence is nai and that they will provide some protection to red by being awkward for the intruders to guess.
All I can say about cyan and yellow is that I really hope they are invitee. Cyan seemed genuine in their ketchup and yellow is yellow. I mean I can say more than that but I'll leave it there.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I was wondering if this is what happened. Teal and cyan are my current guesses. I'm influenced by the stronger halves of red and blue's solutions. I also am influenced by olive's invitee read on magenta.In post 270, Masquerader Magenta wrote:Teal's PT content is basically non existent, doubting that read now.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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VOTE: teal/magenta
I stand by my suspicions above.In post 126, Masquerader Purple wrote:
I also suspect teal tipped their hand in these two paragraphs and implied they know my play is bad and all three of myself, green and yellow are invitees.In post 94, Masquerader Teal wrote:Purple narrowing it down to two is interesting. I'm not sure I agree with purple's assessment. However, I think it's pretty attention grabby to blatantly call out two people as scum, and unless your partner was also lurking in the background I don't see the benefit it has to scum to be so flashy so for now I'm willing to put purple in the town column.
It is interesting, however, that in the story of yellow and green taking shots at each other, yellow fired the first stone, sussing the post green made about being sick (which seems like a throw-away suspicion to me). Maybe purple is onto something, yellow casting a little bit of shade onto a partner, having it be reciprocated later for distancing. I don't know if that's ultimately how I feel.
Sorry, magenta, I agree with olive you're probably an invitee.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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You didn't answer my question about why you read teal as an invitee.In post 294, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 292, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Why the sigh? What has you frustrated?
my partner being replaced and nobody really seeming to want to play
In post 275, Masquerader Purple wrote:I'm interested in hearing more about why new new blue has teal as an invitee.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Red and blue has been considered likely to contain no intruders. Until olive read magenta as an invitee, teal and magenta were considered to be an intruder - intruder pair by both old red and I. The other pairs consist of four players who have all received mixed feedback.In post 296, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Then it looks like the majority of the game thinks this is a scum split up game. So to those with that question: Which hood is the all town one to you?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I'm not sure. It sounds like the identity of UN Owen fromIn post 305, Masquerader Cyan wrote:
Blue also didn’t answer 290 after complaining about not playing. I think Blue is an intruder. What do you think?In post 304, Masquerader Purple wrote:
You didn't answer my question about why you read teal as an invitee.In post 294, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 292, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Why the sigh? What has you frustrated?
my partner being replaced and nobody really seeming to want to play
In post 275, Masquerader Purple wrote:I'm interested in hearing more about why new new blue has teal as an invitee.And Then There Were Noneby Agatha Christie. Blue has been considered invitee since page 1 due to the play of their predecessors. I think you're pushing into new territory.
I haven't seen any overt overtures from blue. The only time I considered the slot might be an intruder is when they proposed cyan and olive as a team, I thought that seemed convenient. I also thought it was odd that both the original blue and new blue made one or a few good looking posts (respectively) and then disappeared. I guess that blue and yellow being both intruders is logical on a surface level because green was going to push yellow today and blue paired with red over them.
I will say in new new blue's defense that they appeared interested in solving the game when they replaced in. If you would like to undermine their credibility then attacking their entrance is the best place to start.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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There are three blue entrances. I'm curious what you think about them.In post 310, Masquerader Cyan wrote:I am not looking to undermine anyone’s credibility if it is rightfully earned. That’s a weird as fuck sentence. I will look at both Blue’s entrances but I rarely think an intro post is work invitee locking someone. Maybe intruder locking but invitee locking. I like to judge the whole body of work.
If new red hasn't finished reading then sooner is better than never.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I'm drawing an AI difference between our thought process when encountering a narrative of the game which we were not anticipating.In post 281, Masquerader Teal wrote:You say that but I don't see it (perhaps because I posted it and know I am town).
Go ahead and nail me to the cross if it's so obvious, why do you think i "tipped my hand?"
My reply to new cyan isn't perfect but it demonstrates I'm thinking about the game more than would be required to evade detection.In post 309, Masquerader Purple wrote:
I'm not sure. It sounds like the identity of UN Owen fromIn post 305, Masquerader Cyan wrote:
Blue also didn’t answer 290 after complaining about not playing. I think Blue is an intruder. What do you think?In post 304, Masquerader Purple wrote:
You didn't answer my question about why you read teal as an invitee.In post 294, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 292, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Why the sigh? What has you frustrated?
my partner being replaced and nobody really seeming to want to play
In post 275, Masquerader Purple wrote:I'm interested in hearing more about why new new blue has teal as an invitee.And Then There Were Noneby Agatha Christie. Blue has been considered invitee since page 1 due to the play of their predecessors. I think you're pushing into new territory.
I haven't seen any overt overtures from blue. The only time I considered the slot might be an intruder is when they proposed cyan and olive as a team, I thought that seemed convenient. I also thought it was odd that both the original blue and new blue made one or a few good looking posts (respectively) and then disappeared. I guess that blue and yellow being both intruders is logical on a surface level because green was going to push yellow today and blue paired with red over them.
I will say in new new blue's defense that they appeared interested in solving the game when they replaced in. If you would like to undermine their credibility then attacking their entrance is the best place to start.
I don't think the bolded (and 94 in general) show that you're thinking about the game. The way that you handle my read on green and yellow in particular is poorly written.In post 94, Masquerader Teal wrote:I feel a lot of what's being brought up against me so far is entirely in my playstyle and if you knew who I was, people might realize I'm slow in my process, and people would definitely feel dumb about associating a joke with my alignment.
Purple narrowing it down to two is interesting. I'm not sure I agree with purple's assessment. However, I think it's pretty attention grabby to blatantly call out two people as scum, and unless your partner was also lurking in the background I don't see the benefit it has to scum to be so flashy so for now I'm willing to put purple in the town column.
It is interesting, however, that in the story of yellow and green taking shots at each other, yellow fired the first stone, sussing the post green made about being sick (which seems like a throw-away suspicion to me). Maybe purple is onto something, yellow casting a little bit of shade onto a partner, having it be reciprocated later for distancing. I don't know if that's ultimately how I feel.
It's been 3 days and we have someone who hasn't spoken. I'm trying not to automatically scumread them but it's hard when I have data on everyone else and nothing on them.
I'm also a little wary of blue mostly for the predecessor's reads; the more I think about them, the more I don't like them. I feel the "yay, role play!" is in a similar vein to me joking about asking the back-up mod to dance so I think blue just is stiff and picked people who were looser because blue doesn't play that way and assumed that people joking around are doing so nervously, trying to hide something. Or something. I don't really know. Regardless, I'd like more from new blue as well before I can say that I truly worry about blue or not.
You describe it as interesting and imply you disagree with it without demonstrating any analysis or elaborating why you feel either way. Instead of describing how you feel, you change the topic into how you feel about my own alignment, resorting to the cliché refuge in audacity (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... n_Audacity) to offer a rationale for why I'm invitee to you. The second bolded paragraph seems intended to distract the reader from realizing that you aren't providing any original analysis, and perhaps to appease me by shading green and yellow. Also, your description of the counter argument in the second bolded paragraph sounds bored by tone, it doesn't sound like something you might classify as interesting.
I don't think it's poorly written because you are a bad writer, I think it's poorly written because it's made up.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I agree and I'm unlikely to budge on red. How is yellow doing in the hood?In post 315, Masquerader Cyan wrote:The red TR seems fine though. Much more in-depth thought that what Blue has.
I'm becoming very curious to hear new new blue's mysterious reason for invitee reading teal.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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What are you referring to?In post 318, Masquerader Cyan wrote:My gut is that yellow is intruder based on the broken yellow green pairing at the start and green was an invitee but that’s pretty weak at this moment.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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You're reading the game too quickly, that was a vote to eliminate yellow which green made because they were reading the game too quickly.In post 321, Masquerader Cyan wrote:
Yellow and Green were originally a pairing looking at the combined Mod ISO. That pairing dissipated and green has flipped invitee. So I wonder how they were a pair.In post 320, Masquerader Purple wrote:
What are you referring to?In post 318, Masquerader Cyan wrote:My gut is that yellow is intruder based on the broken yellow green pairing at the start and green was an invitee but that’s pretty weak at this moment.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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If blue and teal are intruder slots, where is the intruder motivation here?In post 233, Masquerader Teal wrote:I don't like green anymoreRescind offer to dance with greenI think their posts are little empty. I think finding me suspicious after page 1 after blue did as well seems like piggybacking onto something that doesn't actually have substance.
I like Magenta though I am liking their thought process on a couple of things.
If they want to pair that's fine I guess but I think green is more likely of the two to be scum so I'd rather pair with Magenta.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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You're either making sense, have the gift of a silver tongue or both. Until you replaced in I wasn't going to vote blue.In post 327, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Intruder teal, again an assumption, would have thought teal had a better shot with magenta rather than green. Considering the posts after of green’s anger I kinda think that decision is not alignment indicative. That anger of green’s was loud.
Also, I am assuming both teal and blue are intruders and looking for reasons why that can be wrong. I believe olive's changing stance on magenta and green could have been the motivation
In post 178, Masquerader Olive wrote:
I definitely want red to be paired but with Cyan now off the market, whoever I think is more likely to be invitee between you and blue.In post 171, Masquerader Magenta wrote:@red, i re read your post and while I think my initial 'negative vibes ' impression is still valid, it's not quite as bad as I thought. There are some take.aways, but I guess I find it easier to find town than scum and that affects my take on those kind of posts. In particular, I think what you said about green was well thought through, that their logic seemed backwards.
Their posting on this page is terribad.
I wanted to dance with teal but also really want their catch up. Would anyone oppose this pairing?
Rn, I lean you over blue because they’re not doing as much.In post 183, Masquerader Olive wrote:
I’m not commenting on posts that I don’t see as currently relevant. If you’d been paying attention, you’d know I no long hold that opinion.In post 179, Masquerader Green wrote:
how could you see it as thatIn post 43, Masquerader Olive wrote:
Yeah, good point. I could see that as a possible perspective slip.In post 41, Masquerader Yellow wrote:The usual phrasing would be "Äre you still confused
about why I do not trust olive, red?"
Not why red should not trust them.
I think in context Purple's comment that Yellow was reacting to made way more sense. The most charitable interpretation of this is you were taking Yellow's comments at face value, which shows lack of effort on your part to determine the quote was not doctored.
Also, @Magenta, what makes my posting on the previous page "terribad"?In post 184, Masquerader Olive wrote:
I liked magenta’s recent posts. Blue could be anything. I don’t have any issue with anything they’ve posted but it’s more that they haven’t really done too much for awhile, so with little time left, I’d expect them to be more active. I suppose they could just be a bored invitee?In post 180, Masquerader Purple wrote:Magenta seems the most suspicious to me. I'm not sure where their interest in teal comes from or their suspicion of red. Magenta seems to be the most worried about finding a partner (and how they will be perceived for asking or accepting) and the least worried about finding the intruders. If they wish, olive can elaborate on the depth of their feelings toward magenta and I will listen. I have read magenta's recent posting and am not impressed.
Green looks like an invitee who was wrongly accused or an intruder who is angry because they feel they were caught for wrong reasons. I don't know. The fact they seem unlikely to receive a partner probably means they are most likely to be invitee of the players I suspect. It's possible that magenta saw through the layers of wifom and asked to be paired with teal so that they would end up paired green, however, unless someone objects, since magenta and green seem so anxious to receive a partner and haven't voiced too much suspicion of each other, why not pair up together?
Teal dropping out looks like intruder who was pushed from the beginning of the game and lost morale over time. It could also be an invitee who lost morale or became sick and ran out of energy, though I consider this alternative explanation less likely. It hasn't escaped my attention that despite their claims to be slow in forming reads, here as the eleventh hour approaches they are even more absent than they were at the beginning. I think teal avoided outting reads and when they did out reads they sounded suspicious. I prefer that teal be left without a partner just to be rid of them.
I'm a bit at odds with olive here on blue: I'm willing to gamble blue is invitee (though it would be amusing if the intruders were blue and teal and the intruders have given up posting altogether) and I'm optimistic their absence is as frustrating to the intruder's as it is to us. Red will likely be an ideal target to be killed with an automaton and being paired with new blue may be a double edged-sword. The intruders have little information to guess new blue's identity, as we have little information to sort them. I prefer to tempt fate and hope new blue's absence is nai and that they will provide some protection to red by being awkward for the intruders to guess.
All I can say about cyan and yellow is that I really hope they are invitee. Cyan seemed genuine in their ketchup and yellow is yellow. I mean I can say more than that but I'll leave it there.
I think it's logical for teal to pair with magenta over green based on olive's read of magenta.In post 188, Masquerader Olive wrote:
It was an opinion that I held that I no longer do and good for you I guess,In post 186, Masquerader Green wrote:like, I recognized you no longer held that stance, but I think it was a bad stance to begin with.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Genuine, shade or distancing?In post 94, Masquerader Teal wrote:I'm also a little wary of blue mostly for the predecessor's reads; the more I think about them, the more I don't like them. I feel the "yay, role play!" is in a similar vein to me joking about asking the back-up mod to dance so I think blue just is stiff and picked people who were looser because blue doesn't play that way and assumed that people joking around are doing so nervously, trying to hide something. Or something. I don't really know. Regardless, I'd like more from new blue as well before I can say that I truly worry about blue or not.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Have you noticed anything which would rule out a teal and yellow pairing? I believe olive is more likely to be an invitee than an intruder.In post 330, Masquerader Cyan wrote:I hope it’s a little of both. I tend to fair better when people don’t know who I am. I wouldn’t go rearranging reads for blue right now. I just expressed my opinion right now.
I am more wanting to get a mindset and a feel of the game. Do you trust your hoodmate?
I want to establish if both scum are together. Unless yellow starts improving or someone gives a good reason yellow is an invitee I may take my mask off. Just flirting with the idea.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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In post 280, RH wrote:Replacing Yellow
If they return before a replacement is found, they may keep their slot.In post 282, Masquerader Yellow wrote:I would like to post now.
Not really.
Someone said something about a PT.
Are we all supposed to have PTs?In post 283, Masquerader Yellow wrote:In post 270, Masquerader Magenta wrote:Teal's PT content is basically non existent, doubting that read now.Old yellow wasn't replaced by the way, new cyan.
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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It would help if you explained your invitee read on teal and addressed new cyan's entrance.In post 340, Masquerader Blue wrote:
push where?In post 314, Masquerader Cyan wrote:Funny because this summary is how I feel about Blue so far.
There’s a lot of declarative statements and a few open ended questions but not seeing a push anywhere. Does this improve?
the only three people viable to be eliminated at that point are people I town-read-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Is it wise to consider that the exact nature of the automaton mechanic hadn't been revealed yet to the invitees?In post 346, Masquerader Blue wrote:i liked their entry post about dancing with datisi - i read it was an attempt to disguise their identity by pretending to be someone else-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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This is the only information teal had available, in addition to whichever role pm they recieved:
There is an implication that we might gain some benefit from disguising our identities effectively, which we weren't aware would tie into the mechanics until the intruder pm was posted.In post 3, RH wrote:Regarding Masks
Inspired by penguin_alien and YdrasseKnown only to their possessors!
Alas, those, they'll be the guessers!Intruders
How they wish to unmask you all!
How they want to use them to cause your downfall!
Beware, friends, and confide to none!
Heed this advice or you're done!
Does this change your interpretation of teal's choices, new new blue?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Will we be notified when an automata is released and who the target was, even if the attack fails?In post 356, RH wrote:In post 355, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 352, RH wrote:In post 338, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 303, RH wrote:In post 302, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 298, RH wrote:In post 293, Masquerader Blue wrote:In post 252, Datisi wrote:Session I concludes in 2 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes.
how do deadlines work?Assuming that it's directed at me and Datisi, I originally intended that if no players reach majority, it will be counted as a No-Lim.
However, upon realising that a majority in ELO is almost identical to Exiting the Session by a player's own accord, I'll allow plurality by seniority for ELO if ties occur.
Otherwise, there's no Plurality.
so what happens if we don't get 5 votes on a pair by the deadline?I'll count it as a No-Lim. So nobody exits.
so what happens then? do we get a new session or do the mafia get to kill?The Intruders are supposed to be using their Automaton during a Session so there'll be a new Session.
so if we no lim, the scum get a session to use their automata and then we get a new session?Sorry for the confusion. They don't get a seperate Session, it moves to Session II directly and they can use their Automata while the Invitees decide for an elimination.-
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Masquerader Purple
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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It sounds like teal's activity has increased in your hood because they know they will win the game once our pair is killed.In post 399, Masquerader Magenta wrote:I think it's increasingly clear that purple is not an invite and Thier flip would conf town blue at the least.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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What progress have you made in identifying the invitee invitee pair, new red?In post 382, Masquerader Red wrote:I think we need to identify T v T hood. Everyone else should leave. Towards that end, might be best if Magenta. I am worried about that given the last flip.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I have seen this and am choosing not to respond. From this point onward I only require this thread for communication with magenta and red. You may do about as you wish to forage for my identity but it will not be revealed to you.In post 393, Masquerader Blue wrote:purple do you have thoughts or reads about what to do atp?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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New red, I have no interest in interacting with a player who I have already determined to be intruder and I know is interested in discovering my identity.In post 411, Masquerader Red wrote:Purple's attitude to selectively cut off communication doesn't sit well with me. I find it ironic that olive has such a high townread on purple based on meta, but purple attempts to selectively limit that information.
The identities of the intruders are easier for me to understand because I have been playing this game since the beginning and have put a lot of time into understanding what is going on.
Currently I am interested only in interacting with you enough that you can understand my thought process and why you should not trust blue.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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This criticism is unfair, I am not ate and my intention is not to shut down lines of communication, but to open lines of communication where they will be effective toward winning the game. I have a different point of view because I have been playing this game since the beginning and have been able to interact with many players. It's bad faith to assume I am an intruder when we have not interacted at all and you really do not know what I have to say.In post 411, Masquerader Red wrote:I feel a t v t pair is me and blue. The problem is that I feel the scum in purple/olive have tilted blue off his axis. So if we assume teal scum, eliminate and get t v s. Then more ate from purple and olive, blue leaves because he feels persuading the town in purple and olive to leave is impossible. So we just lose based off of that. Purple's attempt to shut down communication, rather than foster it only drives home this point.
For example, my interactions with your predecessor, old red, have allowed me to be much more confident your slot is invitee than I would have been entering this game after pairs had already been made. If you look back at the progression of blue, you will see that the slot has been absent for most of the game, which is largely why they were able to avoid suspicion for so long. The largest mistake that was made in this game was by old red and I in overvaluing the initial post by the first player (of three) to play the blue slot. Had we not assumed that post came from invitee, the blue slot would not been allowed to coast through the entire pairing phrase and get paired with an obv-invitee slot like yours.
I would like to communicate with you and have no interest in communicating with blue or teal. I believe it's in your best interest to not write me off as an intruder because you really have not had a chance to interact with me yet at all.
Does what I'm saying so far sound fair to you, red?-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I understand what you're saying and I believe it's logical for you to assume that, though it is incorrect and will explain why.In post 417, Masquerader Red wrote:I also don't get the hyper defense of Olive given their attempt on a gotcha on Teal. Regardless of Teal's alignment, that looks pretty fake.
Olive is frustrated because the teal slot has been viewed as an intruder for most of the game and it has become increasingly obvious to them over time which alignment the slot is playing as. Also, the blue slot wasn't playing for most of the pairing phase and was incorrectly assessed by old red and I (not olive) to be invitee based on the content of the first and only post by the original blue player. New cyan was the first player other than olive to seriously consider that blue might be an intruder. Once I interacted with new cyan and considered what they had to say, olive and I saw eye to eye we became excited because we realized we had solved the game. Now, olive is frustrated because they feel like you have been pocketed by the blue player and we will lose because you will not listen to what we have to say. That is the reason for olive's ate and emotional outburst.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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I understand where you are coming from and we are similar in that I have had a very difficult time understanding olive. If you look at the beginning of the game, my instincts from the get go were to intruder read olive, and had I not been talked down by old red that we were TvT, I may have never realized who they are and reassessed that they may be invitee.In post 418, Masquerader Red wrote:
Here's the problem.In post 415, Masquerader Purple wrote:I would like to communicate with you and have no interest in communicating with blue or teal. I believe it's in your best interest to not write me off as an intruder because you really have not had a chance to interact with me yet at all.
Does what I'm saying so far sound fair to you, red?
I don't care for you being unwilling to reassess Olive. This feels less like a conversation and more like you pushing a solve onto me, namely that you and Olive are T v T.
You have to meet me as I am and talk about my concerns rather than just hoping I see blue's absence at some point is scummy.
In fact, not only did I struggle with olive's alignment at the beginning of the game, my interactions with new cyan caused me to reconsider again because new cyan tried to persuade me that blue and teal can not be paired.
However, I did not like blue's reaction when I revealed to them their invitee read on teal is based on mechanically incorrect information, they did not seem like they were really emotionally invested in their read at all, and I felt confident they were intruder based on their play at the beginning of the second session and their reaction to cyan and yellow being flipped. That was the last straw for me in accepting that olive is an invitee and blue is not.
So in summary, I understand that it is difficult to invitee read olive and that it is bad play to assume they are invitee and blue is not. Fortunately, that is not the way I am playing this game, and I have continually reassessed olive's alignment throughout this game. As I mentioned before, my biggest mistake this game was not applying this same methodology to blue, as old red and I were unwilling to reconsider on them being invitee because we liked their first post so much.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Blue pushed cyan at the beginning of the first session. Blue was the first player to seriously push cyan as an intruder.In post 423, Masquerader Red wrote:I also didn't see a push on cyan which I'd expect if Blue was an intruder.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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In post 256, Masquerader Blue wrote:my read of the gamestate on replace in is that I think both scum were already paired by the time I replaced in because it didn't feel like there was a lot of interest in deciding who the elimination was or who got paired among the final five - it felt like the game was somewhat stagnant by that point and people were just ok with sleepwalking through this part of the game despite it being really the most exciting part.
I think the over-eagerness to defend themselves rather than focus on who should be eliminated feels like a scum reaction from Cyan.
When I asked Olive multiple times who Olive wanted to be eliminated from the final three, Olive didn't really have a response or an opinion and I find that very troubling.
I didn't like how teal played the EOD at first because it felt like teal didn't really care much who he took along with him and didn't really express a lot of reads but I've had some time to think it over and I feel like it leans towards a town mindset;
I think it feels somewhat unlikely for scum!teal to decide to offer to town!green and scum!magenta at the same time? Like if Green accepts there it's not like Teal would get very much cred off the bus and he's putting his teammate at risk for really not very much gain?
I don't think either of Teal or Magenta really tried very hard to get paired at any point throughout the game and I don't really understand their team strategy if they are a scum team together.
If you take a look at the offer from a strategic standpoint; Teal offering to Green/Magenta subordinates him to both Green/Magenta - what I mean by this is that Green/Magenta can both decide to pair with each other rather than Teal by force almost.
For example if Green wants to pair with Magenta, Green could simply post "Hi I want to pair with Magenta, I had the opportunity to accept Green but I'm not going to take it" at this point Magenta would owe their life to Green and be somewhat obligated to take it? Similarly this would work in reverse.
In a game like this I feel like it is giving up a lot of power to offer both players.
I know it could be true that Teal is just mafia who didn't think very deeply and is just playing haphazardly but my gut tells me this is not the case.-
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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Masquerader Purple Townie
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