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Post #259 (isolation #4) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:00 am
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 189, GreyICE wrote:
The nice part is that if Hebi is scum we actually have a way to read LLD for once.
In that LLD wouldn't start out this game by throwing Hebi under a bus based on those awkward first few pages, she'd see if it could slide and opportunistically bus around 3-4 days in when Hebi had some time to get used to the new reality. I'd say that's actually a v. strong read.
So if Hebi is scum, LLD is town.
Look love, I signed your face up to be a bullet catcher
This feels meta dependent, how do you know scum LLD wouldn't throw her partner Hebi under the bus in the opening? Like a change in meta is a good strat, if LLD knows you know LLD wouldn't bus Hebi as her partner then it's a free town read. Do you know Hebi/LLD this well? I like theory testing but I don't like voting someone out on a meta theory alone, why do you people say Hebi is scum?
In post 155, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
Nah, more like "my girlfriend feels bad that I'm hyper shoving her on page 5 of a mafia game I invited her to and I don't want to be the reason she quits mafia right after she rejoins mafia".
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Post #262 (isolation #7) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:04 am
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 251, Wavelength wrote:
Interestingly, 2nd place is probably Black for 211, but I don't know that the two slots make sense together on a cursory glance.
you picked Archer's Dog that pissed on the tree didn't you
Of course!
So xyzzy?
Depends. In your mind is he scum profiterring off of hebi being town and a wagon or is he scum attaching himself to a wagon as part of a bus to ensure he's not left out?
I’ll ask a better question - is he town?
If Hebi's scum they are.
like to iterate, if Hebi's scum Xyzzy doesn't have the 3 posts they have this game. Simple as that. They enter and approach differently.
Why do they enter and approach differently? What does the entrance and approach look like in this different reality?
In post 251, Wavelength wrote:
Interestingly, 2nd place is probably Black for 211, but I don't know that the two slots make sense together on a cursory glance.
In post 204, Aureal wrote:
Why would I not want to help eliminate hebi if I was a wolf- is she a wolf?
LLD and Grey seem to think so
This all Black said in this post, why does this scum ping you? Feels pretty innocent to me-unless semi sheeping is scummy to you
They had previously stated that they had their own independent scum read on Hebi in 132, so it seems unnatural for someone who scum reads Aureal themselves to answer this way.
In post 265, Wavelength wrote:
They had previously stated that they had their own independent scum read on Hebi in 132, so it seems unnatural for someone who scum reads Aureal themselves to answer this way.
My answer to Aureal would have been "I do not know". I got one ping off of hebi and that is not enough for me to think she is a wolf yet. Whereas LLD and Grey are in a relationship with hebi irl so I feel like their opinion of her carries more weight
I like this uncertainty, standing ground in saying something is not enough to scumread someone in the face of a wagon feels like Black town, same with noting the weight of LLD/Grey's opinions
I feel a lot of scum/town theory is predicated on hebi being scum, Idk why so many jump to this solve immediately, I don't see any evidence that hebi is scum based on her actions only on the actions of people outside of hebi
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Post #305 (isolation #15) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:43 pm
Postby KawaiiKame »
Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them
In post 305, KawaiiKame wrote:
Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them
I don't agree. I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum. I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens. Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.
I feel it's town to defend town, though I'm with you that Black should be above Porkens in being town since Black created the post while Porkens analyzed them
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Post #314 (isolation #18) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:54 pm
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 311, Frogs wrote:
to me Black just feels like they are drifting in the waves of the thread, getting pushed around like a piece of driftwood. i don't see the town drive or thought process going on anywhere.
In post 231, Black wrote:
Sure. I am always down to pressure kawaii
VOTE: Kawaii
this post pinged me the hardest
-cakez
Black knows me so I don't feel this is scum motivated, I feel it's town motivated to pressure me since we played b4, feels town to be drifting initially, I do feel town thought with questioning even if drive might be so-so
I do believe Black feels semi lost though in a way she didn't feel b4
In post 305, KawaiiKame wrote:
Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them
I don't agree. I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum. I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens. Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.
I feel it's town to defend town, though I'm with you that Black should be above Porkens in being town since Black created the post while Porkens analyzed them
It's NAI to defend town, it's scummy to be the knight in shining armor "you're my top town read" person when they have a decent wagon on them.
I concede that it's NAI to defend town since you can defend town as any alignment, I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt so I lean town when someone defends against a building wagon as opposed to joining it, but yeah I see scum motivation to save town, Kokichi did it as scum in the DN mafia
In post 305, KawaiiKame wrote:
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them
who are the scum you are pointing to here? this is vague handwaving
-sc
It is vague, I'm voicing my thoughts on what's likely/wanting to narrow down who in the Black/hepi wagons is most likely scum, making notes
I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?
0nly one who fits this is Kokichi
I considered this then considered it could just be bad hours for him.
Definitely possible, the Rogue wagon looked weird to me when I was looking at it in the opening, like I didn't see why Rogue was being voted at all
I dunno. It felt very rvs to me. Hard to read into those. I don't think there's much content to read into until lld scumread me and I feel like she's town and GreyIce hasn't pinged me either way.
I feel most confident of scum in one of black/porkens still, kokichi is pretty weak iso but he's been gone awhile.
Frogs has been better since cakez jumped in, aureal had a few good posts but not the best iso.
You just feel like lost town I guess?
I am, Idk what to make of the people Idk, the people I do know feel ooc
In post 337, hebichan wrote:
Porkens is my most confident scumread. Your flip would be more interesting. You flipping town always results in me voting porken tomorrow, you flipping scum would likely make porkens town cause why buddy so close to a scum partner.
You did not elaborate on your scumreads at all
Also I think this approach is scummy. You say my flip is more interesting but it just looks like you are taking the easy way out on my mobile wagon instead of starting your own with Porkens
I live with greyice and LLD. All greyice ever does is tell me explaining reads is scummy.
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Post #364 (isolation #27) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:34 pm
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 332, Wavelength wrote:
Kawaii, did you think that Hebi was asking about people being quiet in general? Or did you think that Kokichi was on one of the wagons?
In general, was asked if anyone looked uncharacteristically quiet since voting, only one who fits this description is Kokichi
In post 320, hebichan wrote:
I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?
0nly one who fits this is Kokichi
This seems plausible. Just reading this post, the question is divorced away from the wagons, and it is just about people going quiet.
I'm voicing my thoughts on what's likely/wanting to narrow down who in the Black/hepi wagons is most likely scum, making notes
I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?
Hebi is responding to a post that is explicitly saying that they are trying to narrow down the people voting those two. AND has made notes on those people.
Even with narrowing down on the most recent post they are responding to, I don't actually believe that Hebi switched to talking about votes in general.
VOTE: Hebi
Hebi feels to be saying what I'm saying yet you see hebi as scum and me as town, why don't you believe Hebi switched to talking about votes in general? I feel this is what happened in hebi's posts
Why do you have such strong conviction that Hebi is scum? I wish you pursued this conviction with a vote instead of being merciful since you feel emotionally bad voting Hebi, nothing else makes sense to do in your pov
Why do you have such strong conviction that Hebi is scum? I wish you pursued this conviction with a vote instead of being merciful since you feel emotionally bad voting Hebi, nothing else makes sense to do in your pov
In post 248, Black wrote:
I think I am wary of Kokichi due to a game we just played together but I can see how that can be interpreted as me boxing him in
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Post #390 (isolation #34) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:25 am
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 379, Rogue wrote:
I don’t think Black and Porkens are ever scum together, but every other alignment pairing for the two of them is still on the table
In post 386, KawaiiKame wrote:
Idk why so many think hebi is scum, Ik you didn't ask me but that's what I think
I did not like how hebi reacted to LLD calling her scum early on. She felt defensive and uncomfortable. She also refuses to elaborate some reads (106, 347) while openly elaborating others (118, 125) and this makes me think she is throwing out scumreads with no backing. Then she conveniently jumped on my wagon, later saying it was a pressure vote, but keeping the vote there because something I did in between those couple of pages apparently made me one of her top two scumreads? But she will not elaborate the read...so yeah, she is just playing like opportunistic scum and not really hunting/solving at all
All of this makes sense, I dislike,
In post 106, hebichan wrote:
Elaborations are scum sided. I just don't like your posts.
In post 347, hebichan wrote:
All greyice ever does is tell me explaining reads is scummy.
Same with seemingly randomly voting you with weak backing
In post 385, KawaiiKame wrote:
Hebi feels to be saying what I'm saying yet you see hebi as scum and me as town, why don't you believe Hebi switched to talking about votes in general? I feel this is what happened in hebi's posts
I feel like my post fairly clearly showed the difference between the post that you were responding to vs the post that Hebi was responding to.
And to be clear, the question post was not the issue. It was soft agreeing with you about Kokichi.
Ah yeah, by the tone you feel hebi is implying discussion within the hebi/Black votes but goes onto talk about Kokichi with me?
Why do you have such strong conviction that Hebi is scum? I wish you pursued this conviction with a vote instead of being merciful since you feel emotionally bad voting Hebi, nothing else makes sense to do in your pov
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Post #467 (isolation #39) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:10 pm
Postby KawaiiKame »
I'm seperated from the main borg
In post 455, Wavelength wrote:
You are borg/former borg.
One your our faction mates is borg themed, and already in a PT with you.
But then you are targeting other former borg to add to different, unrelated borg hood
I am the borg collective separated from the other borg so this has evidence to it
I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:
- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-
It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this
The last one should be the only one that matters.
I want to leave hebichi alive so she can confirm to me in the night since I'm borg but you right, this is the best move, non-town is non-town
I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:
- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-
It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this
The last one should be the only one that matters.
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.
Holy Hell you right, voting someone else does give the most info in the flip to solve the game, as said b4 voting hebi is nai so we get 0 info in eliminating hebi
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Post #676 (isolation #54) » Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:00 am
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 674, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
This whole interaction in which you play clueless to what happened despite it being literally spelt out in the role PMs
What role PMs say that Black was killed by Alisae? I did not get one, I did not know Black was killed until reading in this game
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Post #681 (isolation #55) » Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:24 am
Postby KawaiiKame »
In post 678, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
From Hell's heart, I stab at thee: Should you be eliminated or otherwise die during Day phase or Night, you will have your compulsive vengeance. You will be able to choose a player to die with you. If you do not make the choice within 6 hours of my notification, your target will be selected randomly.
In post 674, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
This whole interaction in which you play clueless to what happened despite it being literally spelt out in the role PMs
What role PMs say that Black was killed by Alisae? I did not get one, I did not know Black was killed until reading in this game