Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Ichirin Kumoi]

how am i going to play this game without vomiting every time i look at the screen

VOTE: Clownpiece

My diligence is mightier than the mafSepia. Is yours?
VOTE: Kagerou

[Ichirin Kumoi]

hi larva! hi piece!! hi star!!!

There really IS a lot of fairies this game, huh.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Kagerou Imaizumi

Identity Thief!

i think i'm the one who is getting their identity stolen

Depends if Marisa's role is Kagerou.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Mod notes are confusing.

Each player has approximately a 50% chance that their Account Name and the Role Name are the same. Kagerou is apparently in the 50% that are different, and

Kagerou Imaizumi (account name) is confirmed to be Marisa Kirisame (role name)

First off thank you Kaguya for making me aware of this post again. Second off:
Not actually true. I personally was given the choice to have my name be either from my picks, or completely random, and have no reason believe only I was given that choice. Moreover, you pick 3 characters anyway, and getting the same name is... not exactly 50%, now is it.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

This has basically nothing to do with anything but I wanted to take the time to be groan-inducing and pedantic.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Not actually true. I personally was given the choice to have my name be either from my picks, or completely random, and have no reason believe only I was given that choice. Moreover, you pick 3 characters anyway, and getting the same name is... not exactly 50%, now is it.

This is not in line with how the mod explained role and account generation (as explained in post 20), unless I misunderstood something

...Huh?? Why is it weighted weirdly? Just 1 in 3 that shit. Strange mod...

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Purple is the mod’s color.

This is so fucked up.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Daiyousei this is probably just scum tho

and i don't think it's because i'm not vibing with the roleplay (i don't want to discourage the roleplay btw, do what is fun for you! i am just bitter about not knowing the flavor and being left out of the joke )

VOTE: Daiyousei

UwU

VOTE: Daiyousei

Do not like any of these votes.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Oh. I look away for a few minutes and by the time I post again there's 3 people on me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Daiyousei this is probably just scum tho

and i don't think it's because i'm not vibing with the roleplay (i don't want to discourage the roleplay btw, do what is fun for you! i am just bitter about not knowing the flavor and being left out of the joke )

VOTE: Daiyousei

UwU

VOTE: Daiyousei

Do not like any of these votes.

Your posting sucks.

Perhaps I'm reading the room wrong but I feel like a lot of the votes going around are very rather strange and just... not being talked about. Why did Eternity Larva suddenly go for Daiyousei? Shrug! We Just Don't Know.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm still reading back after 200 posts materialized overnight but I don't particularly like that town just randomly swings 3 votes onto someone for funsies.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't particularly like that town just randomly

Why assume we are town doing that, maybe you just found the entire scum team

Marisa/Clownpiece/Yuuka nakedvoter scumteam would be funny but I think it's just the mind virus completely rewiring people's perceptions of a weird out-of-left-field vote.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I like making unexplained vote changes to momentumize wagons on people that I don't town-read because action creates reaction.

Scum don't fear a town that has their own pet scumreads and are siloed off from each other - scum fear unpredictability and speed.

Fair enough, but my main question is still about Larva. What was she cooking?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

The haters can say my posting sucks but I will not accept dying until I have the answer to that.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

It's a nice clear goalpost to pass before I get unceremoniously mislimmed D1.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Daiyousei this is probably just scum tho

and i don't think it's because i'm not vibing with the roleplay (i don't want to discourage the roleplay btw, do what is fun for you! i am just bitter about not knowing the flavor and being left out of the joke )

VOTE: Daiyousei

UwU

VOTE: Daiyousei

Do not like any of these votes.

elaborate?

Larva has not given any particularly reason for why Daiyousei is "just scum", and she's my main concern because I'm pretty sure Marisa is just going scattergun mode with her reads and voting whoever's picking up steam of them (albeit this is still possibly maf opportunism), and Koishi's already explained her vote. Calling Dai "just scum" this early and STICKING to that just seems oddly committal for something I literally cannot fathom a proper reason why for at the moment.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

i guess lacking reason is a word but mine did too and yet i'm not on the list so i guess there's more to it than that

Like I said, there seems to be a trend of wacky votes this game.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

but i do agree with Ichirin on some level, hopefully wagons will start to stabilize a bit cause otherwise it's gonna be hard to analyse that

Yeah, that's part of it too, I don't know how particularly readable wagons that appear out of thin air and with several people voting for the sake of voting on them are.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Your posting sucks. Either alignment will jump on you because they can. Both players responses to you are rout and can be from either alignment since they’re more policies and prescriptions than fluid mind sets. The only fluidity was that people quickly jumped on you for one too many contentless posts.

While i sort of understand what the werewolf is getting at, mostly i just see an obstructionist for the sake of obstruction and with neutrality wrapped in the veneer of content in terms of their read of ichirin. That’s what it is on its face and I don’t have much motivation to look beyond that.

They said explanation is forthcoming.
But my patience with that when regular play will do just fine, is finite.

You just blow in from Needlessly Mean Town?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

@Ichirin please see my flawless and sheep-worthy case on Daiyousei below

Koishi Komeiji occupies the same spot in my mind as Daiyousei btw

one-off questions and comments that don't seem to lead anywhere

not atrocious this early on but worthy of wagoning for sure!

PEDIT: speak of the devil!

yes this was directed towards Koishi but it can be inferred that i feel similarly about Daiyousei

On me for not really seeing this but still a rather strong read all things considered.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't particularly like that town just randomly

Why assume we are town doing that, maybe you just found the entire scum team

Marisa/Clownpiece/Yuuka nakedvoter scumteam would be funny but I think it's just the mind virus completely rewiring people's perceptions of a weird out-of-left-field vote.

Marisa is not one of the people who voted you.

Speaking in general.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

...

why would you be speaking in general, instead of specifically about the 3 people who all naked voted you?

Yuuka was first and moreover did not vote until voting me, whereas Koishi was on Daiyousei and you hopped on out of left field. I don't really believe I'm getting naked voted by the entire team and I'm not particularly interest in the semantics of my specified hypothetical shitpost team.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I am just confused on why you don't seem interested in determining the alignment of the people who voted you.

You started by saying it was town voting you, I asked why we could not be scum voting you (the full scum team part was a joke, but that was the idea), and you responded by not even knowing who was voting you.

I would expect some level of suspicion from someone who thinks that they are currently in serious danger of being miselimed (which I already felt was an exaggerated response to 3 votes), but you actually seem completely uninterested in your voters for some reason.

Koishi's vote is playstyle stuff that isn't really AI to me and Yuuka is an ass, but a townish ass. It'd be a bit narrow-minded to immediately react to my voters and interrogate them which is why I wanted to get Larva to talk about Daiyousei and I mentioned Marisa because I feel she's particularly oddball with her votes/reads. Though now that my business is done and that you mention it, why'd you even hop on in the first place?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

It kind of comes across like you already knows that all three of us are town, so your goal is not to sort us, and your actual goal in this situation is just to change our mind by finding something to talk about/focus on (in this case Eternity Larva) to "show" that you are solving.

I literally got assaulted by 3 votes mid-catchup, so.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Though now that my business is done and that you mention it, why'd you even hop on in the first place?

That question was already asked and answered

Man I am really not in the headspace for this right now am I.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

It kind of comes across like you already knows that all three of us are town, so your goal is not to sort us, and your actual goal in this situation is just to change our mind by finding something to talk about/focus on (in this case Eternity Larva) to "show" that you are solving.

I literally got assaulted by 3 votes mid-catchup, so.

Assaulted?

Assaulted.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Mod is cheering for me, it's so joever for the Ichirin wagoners.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

like what she is saying to the thread is that she thinks she's going to get "mislimmed" and that "the town has randomly voted her" - which could be a TMI slip that we're all town as CP is saying or it could just be she is speaking off the cuff etc.

but the issue I have is that she says she's fine with being misyeeted after Larva explains ____.

which is super weird to me because if I was being run up and about to be misyeeted I wouldnt really care what this one person was doing at this one moment in time in a game that's barely even started.

so I'm asking her why she would be fine with being misyeeted if it larva explained. and her explanation is basically that's her goal for this game, and that's like very ??? to me. What makes that goal so important that you'd be ok with being misyeeted after you accomplish it? the thought process doesn't make sense to me.

but people often don't make sense, people are often emotional about what they do. not every person who doesn't make sense to me has to be mafia because I'm different from other people.

Less "goal for the game" and more "goal for the day if I'm really getting limmed out of this". But also it was already explained and I'm just stupid. Also saying "town" instead of "people" or whatnot is just me being off the cuff yes, to state my intent post-mortem.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

How about this ichi.

Let’s pretend your last few posts didn’t happen and you’re a well-adjusted uh, fairy scholar?

Who’s scum? And/or town? And why.

Try to think normal thoughts while you do it, like, channel the spirit of an office worker staring at a clock.

I think Larva is alright especially now that I realize there was just hyperbole and an existing explanation. Her conversations with Clownpiece and Koishi felt particularly towny, and I think I agree on Koishi being a wait-and-see slot. Leading into Koishi, 316 and 317 are good but, to quote me, feel 'post-mortem', and so I'd like to see what she cooks in the future.

You still need to lay off the passive-aggressive juice but I think you're probably town. Though if I'm being real I did not mean 279 as an initial declaration of a townread on you.

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

I wanna hear about this from Kagerou.

If I'm being entirely honest I don't have a lot in terms of scumreads, I never really do in this stage of the game, but I'm willing to vote any of Kaguya, Tenshi or Daiyousei to try and move the needle on them a bit, as they've all kinda disappeared. In general I think I should try a Marisa or Koishi-style of not-so-committal voting more, in all my games.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm willing to vote any of Kaguya, Tenshi or Daiyousei to try and move the needle on them a bit, as they've all kinda disappeared

How did you land on these 3 names, or more, how did you rule out the other low content players from being on this list.

They all haven't really been seen recently, excluding maybe Tenshi (who wasn't REALLY doing anything).

[Ichirin Kumoi]

And hey, here's Kaguya, so it CLEARLY did something.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

If I'm being entirely honest I don't have a lot in terms of scumreads, I never really do in this stage of the game, but I'm willing to vote any of Kaguya, Tenshi or Daiyousei to try and move the needle on them a bit, as they've all kinda disappeared. In general I think I should try a Marisa or Koishi-style of not-so-committal voting more, in all my games.

I’m sorry, are you surprised people are busy on a Friday night? I also question how you can really move the needle without engaging us.

I also think Yuuka’s string of posts over the past few pages are incredibly townie.

Needle has moved, everyone mentioned showed up. It's that shrimple.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Needle has moved, everyone mentioned showed up. It's that shrimple.

Are you taking credit for time passing and people having time to post?

Yeah.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Though now that my business is done and that you mention it, why'd you even hop on in the first place?

That question was already asked and answered

Man I am really not in the headspace for this right now am I.

What was wrong with your head space at this point in time? What are the circumstances you're referring to here?

I was super hungry and focusing on something completely unrelated to the game and I'm thinking that had something to do with it.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

For now, I think I would like to vote Kaguya-San. I don't understand how anyone can have a strong townread on her!

Honestly, yeah. This is not the greatest ISO in the world, and I'm realizing I should probably get a vote I believe in instead of holding onto my Kagerou RVS vote lol.

VOTE: Kaguya

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm town

How very kneejerk of you.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm town

How very kneejerk of you.

What does this mean

Far as I'm aware you only have like, 2 votes on you? Just seems very odd to blurt this out as soon as more than one person is voting you, in a way I can't particularly describe.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Again iunno, more of a gut hunch (gunch?) than anything.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Koishi Komeiji has been replaced with Koishi Komeiji!

Koishiception...

[Ichirin Kumoi]

This might be a wake-up call to focus on the game again.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

And there's another Ascetic claim. What was Yukari cooking?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I’m beginning to think everyone has some form of obfuscation.

pandaemonium

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I think new Koi is townier than old Koi, and I think getting jumpscared by a red role PM is true and real because it happened to me too.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

i wake up
i check the game
there is 10 new pages

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Have you tried taking things a few degrees down the seriousness factor, Yuuka? Like perhaps "being a bit sarcastic/sardonic but still

cares

about the situation"?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

I am indifferent to the "Assaulted." post.

Actual Read.

Gonna be honest I don't understand what you're saying

“Sie's pretty tongue-in-cheek about it, and aware that it might not look so good“

They never explicitly said this.
Or at least, I can’t find it. So you’re assuming their state of mind based on the context of the posts/what you think is reasonable, but Ichi did not go this route, they played it straight.

The assaulted one is the post you’re looking for in exhibit A for” this can’t possibly be real/serious”

They never said it was a joke.
So, I’m not taking it as one.

Nitpicking.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

I am indifferent to the "Assaulted." post.

Actual Read.

Gonna be honest I don't understand what you're saying

“Sie's pretty tongue-in-cheek about it, and aware that it might not look so good“

They never explicitly said this.
Or at least, I can’t find it. So you’re assuming their state of mind based on the context of the posts/what you think is reasonable, but Ichi did not go this route, they played it straight.

The assaulted one is the post you’re looking for in exhibit A for” this can’t possibly be real/serious”

They never said it was a joke.
So, I’m not taking it as one.

Nitpicking.

And what does this say for their alignments?

I'm not

entirely

sure about Yuuka because I don't want to confbias my way into a "Yuuka is just out to get me in particular for some reason" tinfoil or anything, but I think it's definitely atleast a little -Town. Clownpiece's thinking is just +Town though and I completely get thinking that way about my posts towards Larva.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm still working my way through the rest of those cool new 10 pages but I'm feeling a Kagerou or Sanae vote, I'm not touching Aya with a 60-foot pole right now.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Have you tried taking things a few degrees down the seriousness factor, Yuuka? Like perhaps "being a bit sarcastic/sardonic but still

cares

about the situation"?

I’m bemused. It’s a bit too tedious to get all the way into this, but are you saying that when I responded to your sarcasm with mockery and you asked for respect, it was because I misinterpreted you and you weren’t actually serious?

My intent is almost always to be atleast a LITTLE serious but I often tinge it with humor and or hyperbole because I'm Just Like That. I was perturbed by the sudden nakedvote wagon, I wanted answers from Larva, and I wanted you to not mock me

regardless

of the level of seriousness.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Yuuka, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, you were just kind of a plain jane asshole.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't care about you trying to discredit me I care about not getting insulted in new strange ways I can't even fathom are insults until hours later.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

the quiet link if you prefer

just saying this game has a lot of charismatic players which raises the bar for everyone involved

pedit : I would like to get scratched under my ears yes

Okay first task, please list the charismatic players from your POV, bonus half-step point if you rank them within the list.

most charisma
Marisa
Larva
Clownpiece
New!Koichi
Sanae
least but still charming

i would also like to include Yuuka as while her play is different there's absolutely a degree of social confidence to it that i classify as charisma

i gotta admit that's least than i estimated when thinking at first but half the game is already pretty good

I think that the sort of players who are likely to sign up for this in the first place are the sort of players that would be generally viewed as 'charistmatic', so it doesn't really surprise me. There might be scum in the charismatic players but I'm not sure this approach is going to help me solve the game either

I'm just here because I like Touhou.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Reisen is a slot that has been weirdly written off for reasons i have yet to identify and they are the only player in this whole game that hasn't had one post that made me think "this comes from town"

Actually just true and real I've seen like fucking nothing from or ON Reisen.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I also think they're casually lying about minor things to hide themselves from scrutiny.

Do you have any examples of where you're seeing this?

You could've scrutinized them whenever you wanted, you don't seem to have an issue getting in people's way.
Why not tenshi who is generally trying to put themselves out there?

what

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay it's about Tenshi actually, but still.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Or rather about Kagerou NOT scrutinizing Tenshi... I don't care anymore. Catchup basically done, last page.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Synopsis:
New!Koishi is towny as hell.
Aya is probably town, Aya/Sanae looks really bad for Sanae to me. I really don't like how Clownpiece approached the Aya sitch but I think they're overall town-ish?
Kagerou def a little suspicious.
Tenshi still flying under the radar for me.

If Reisen wagon falls through I'll probably go Sanae. VOTE: Reisen

pedit: Those are certainly

nice

posts but I would really like to see some more of said nice posts.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Reisen

Also, eek!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Would you like to share with the class your thoughts on Reisen, Sanae?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Do you think love can bloom, even in an anonymous mafia game?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Daiyousen, I want you to know that I disagree with you! While Aya has stuck to character at the expense of game content, which makes her unreadable, she didn't pretend to contribute! I might still vote her though because I don't townread her...

This isn't quite true because Aya

definitely

broke character at the height of her frustration, and I don't believe she's mixed news terminology and the like into any of her posts since then.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

It was but they never implied it was and asked that I respect them, with what I assumed was a sarcastic comment.

I assumed they would not ask for respect if in the same breath they were making jokes. They took offense to me pointing out their posts were generally lack luster. Even though multiple players had said it, I had said it the wrong way.
Hence the asshole label. But I’m mostly just looking to see what they do with their approach to people. I didn’t really get it.

The definition of duplicity, I felt they were riding two vague interpretations and chose the one that served them better.

I explained where I was coming from with my check in with Sanae. I’m surprised you think that kind of approach comes from scum.

Or 1v1 or whatever.
I found Aya’s shifting between emotion and their sudden game face pretty difficult to interpret.

I haven’t been super clear,
But in general I was frustrated. When a player with low content is in my awareness tend just to watch and wait and prod people that aren’t being easy to read.
I vote them.
They say I assaulted them, which I couldn’t tell if they were joking or not, but got offended if they were serious.
I was also slightly annoyed they either thought I was pointing out that purple was the mod’s color as a weapon or warning to be used against (the witch hat girl) I wasn’t, it was just a hey, mod’s color is purple and found it mildly suspicious they were spending their time focusing on the morality of a post rather than something readable. I tend to think scum utilize fairness and drama as a weapon. So yeah, it pinged.

I really

don't

fucking care about the assaulted bit, I care about most of what you said AFTER we went "Assaulted? Assaulted." even if "Your posting sucks" is a very blunt way of putting it in the first place. I did not ask for respect over a sarcastic comment I asked for respect period. Stop twisting the narrative and obsessing over me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Direly need to get back into the swing of things, I'll reread from my last post sometime soon.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Spoiler: Divine Fist "GIANT FUCKING WALL"

Im reserving my vote for when I feel confident on something, whether it is my POE or a scumread. I’m trying to take more of a voyeur approach this game which is probably part of why I’ve been stuck on my own island, but I also feel the desire for some more data to analyze.

I referenced Dai up there, but I can give Dai and Kaguya a look over when I get home tonight.

My gut feels bad about "I also feel the desire for some more data to analyze." because I feel like there were already plenty of things to analyze...? Meh.

Clown can you say some words to me about Kaguya?

i really liked her posts about Marisa. there is a lot of merit to the charisma argument that made me reevaluate Marisa myself

it would be a weird choice for scum in Kaguya's position, who is likely seeing the writing on the wall that she is in the PoE pool, to just throw out a Marisa vote and barely even substantiate or push it? i expect calculated scum to target a potential town bloc player to make a splash or go against the grain in a way that will garner town reads on them and help them escape the elimination pool. Kaguya's stance on Marisa does not feel manipulative in that way and does not further an agenda whatsoever, it keeps her more removed from the "in-crowd" and she doesn't really seem to care

in fact a lot of her scum reads seem to center around the consensus town-read players (Yuuka, Sanae, Marisa) which is a strange strategy as scum when it's likely these players will be influential in deciding the ultimate elimination today

i guess she is also scum reading Reisen who would fit the bill as a viable elimination alternative to herself but i have a soft spot for other players scum-reading Reisen...

I really like this, it's pointing me in the right direction for Kaguya because I'm realizing I kinda like Kaguya's reads (on a towniness level not a "I wanna vote that" level), but that might be because we share some ideas. Also yeah. My heart of hearts still thinks blurting out "I'm town" at 2 votes is an eyebrow-raiser but I don't think that's really relevant now.

I'm trying not to, but off-the-cuff I don't actually think you have a lot of content?
I admit that I'd have to re-read your ISO to confirm that but a lot of what I remember you posting is vibes

I remember Koishi's whole dance bit with Kagerou, which I'm probably stealing in the future lol, but off the top of my head I don't really remember Koishi generating new content otherwise, and even after checking ISO I don't really see anything truly noteworthy by this point? But also Koishi keeps stressing their playstyle and how it pertains to that. I'm withholding proper judgement for now until I go back and specifically evaluate Koishi's 1164 and similar, however, maybe after she completes the set.

Re: Yuuka, is someone shading someone by talking nonsense townie now somehow?

Here is the only post about Yuuka you made before the vote

The assaulted one is the post you’re looking for in exhibit A for” this can’t possibly be real/serious”

They never said it was a joke.
So, I’m not taking it as one.

Horrendous take

You have twisted my position into saying that those post are townie, when in fact I think that it is a Yuuka-ism in a way that is entirely divorced from alignment

I found it a little hard to swallow that you think that Yuuka taking Ichirin's post seriously, and not as a joke, is something that would be based on Yuuka's alignment.

Seeing someone point out something that is "bad" or "wrong" and then voting on it, without drawing the line on why being "bad" or "wrong" in that way is more likely to come from scum instead of town pings me.

Nonsense takes tend to come from scum, it being a Yuukaism is completely irrelevant because I don't know who Yuuka is and don't have a past pattern of behaviour for her. This is also the reason why the scumread got softened after I found out it was a Yuukaism (because those parts no longer applied to the read), why are you ignoring that?

Ding ding ding. It being a "Yuukaism" is wholly irrelevant when it seems pretty clear that she's trying to evaluate a read on me out of it, nonsense or no. In general, I don't like Yuuka just completely ignoring my slot now after 970 but I suppose I did all but tell her to stop riding my dick and I haven't exactly been around until now. Didn't stop her from dredging up old posts before, though.

wow! this is by far the worst post i've seen all game! @_@ it contributes nothing to the hunting process and is obviously designed just to kick a clearly hurting player while they're down

in an iso vacuum i'm still not thrilled with aya's body of work but this post and sanae co-signing it in 598 makes me want absolutely nothing to do with voting aya for the foreseeable future and everything to do with exterminating the kagerou/sanae mafpair asap

I really hate this, I feel like it is trying to exacerbate the situation when I frankly raised an eyebrow at the same quote as Kagerou?

That said, this looks like a really weird way to talk about me when you have much wordier qualifiers on the rest of the people you were asked about? It's not like I haven't been majorly present since your last block of reads, I suspect I'm going to be showing up on this week's episode of Hyperposters Least Wanted, starting John Walsh.

you're in a unique position where i was very much not a fan of your predecessor, but was also starting to rethink that stance because i wasn't sure if it was because she was mafia or because her foundational ideas for how to play differed strongly with mine

and then the replacement happened, which means that i still feel how i felt about the slot prior to the replacement but my concerns may no longer apply going forward

so i couldn't just drop you in either the "interested in voting" bin or the "not interested in voting" bin with any sort of confidence, hence the couched wording

I'm not sure I like how cognizant they are of their own trajectory, however I know that I can be a bit susceptible to this too? But referencing their own posts here felt kinda weird

I can see why there are votes on this slot, although admittedly part of me wonders if there is a disconnect with players struggling with the length of Dai's posting?

Have to disagree here on both counts. I'm not particularly invested in a Dai townread but I do think that Kagerou's post was a little gross in addition to getting what Aya was saying wrong, and while this is an anon game and this means jackshit, I have self-referenced quite a bit in the past and I generally do not believe it's a very inherently alignment-indicative thing to do.

My bias to town read active players is a massive issue this game if there's at least one, but definitely if there's two, high-energy scum.

I’m thinking Koishi is town plus the list from the top of the page, which I am now repurposing for my own needs.

I also want to townread this even though it's probably really easy to post as scum, because it's so easy scum probably won't do it. Or something...

I think this is a fallacy of some sort.

Town:
Yuuka - Playing way too aggressive for scum, actively antagonizing others makes it very easy for others to want to murderlate you
Kagerou - 2chaotic2bescum

I think this is a fallacy of some sort. In general I think regularly flushing your brain of the idea that scum only play as conniving tricksters or whatever is good for you because scum playstyles can vary comically and they will especially love it if you hand them a townread for it. Rest of the readlist is like, fine, ig.

2) what makes a tenshi vote more interesting than a vote for me? maybe this is the self-loathing from generations of fairy hatred kicking in but i see myself as more likely to get exterminated than tenshi at this point in the game, so i don't understand why you'd vote tenshi ahead of me while thinking i'm more likely to be mafia

2) I'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you, i feel like the general avoidance around this slot could come from a place of more well inserted scumbuddies uneasy with the idea of drawing the light to their weak like

2) assuming your interest in seeing people's stances on tenshi is honest, what effort did you make to draw those stances out between the tenshi vote and the post i am responding to with this question? (this actually ties pretty neatly into what yuuka and piece have been saying about you lately)

still waiting for an answer to this btw ?_?

(ed. note: nested quotes are cleaned up for ease-of-reading purposes)

sorry missed it

- well, i maybe didn't get as much as i hoped directly at the, but i also feel like i've managed to prevent tenshi from just being able to fly under the radar undetected, and it's just that people don't really care about pushing there

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

yeah ik it's dumb counting the vote as that by itself, but it's true

I've lost the plot completely here too.

Just gonna step away and come back with fresh brain.

before you leave give me gun to head a read on Tenshi

save a townie, join the Tenshi wagon

So, a couple of things with this:

1) Posts 717 and 745 come after the time frame I was asking about. I was specifically asking about the time frame between the vote for Tenshi, in 553, and the claim that the vote for Tenshi was cast because you "were more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]", in 655. Presumably, if you were town and telling the truth about this, you would have made efforts to draw out people's stances between 553 and 665. I looked back and did not see any. Given you didn't quote any, I'm assuming you didn't see any either. Therefore, I have to conclude that the reason you gave for the vote is bunk, and because town has no reason to give bunk reasons for their votes, you are Mafia.

2) Posts 717 and 745 don't really give any reason to consider Tenshi voteworthy. In fact, Sanae's question in 719 is the only real response one can to 717, because you hadn't given any reason for anyone else to consider voting for Tenshi up to that point. Your response in 723 exists, sure, but even setting aside that the reasoning there appears to amount to "vibes", there was no reason town you couldn't have provided that reasoning 150 posts prior. This instead comes across as making something up after the fact, which suggests Mafia.

holy shit shes cooking. Big huge agree here.

Please forgive my breaking of character, I'm tired.

VOTE: Daiyousei

The entire line of questioning in 889 is really bad. Why does Daiyousei care about the fact that my scumread of Kaguya can be applied to other people? I'm explicitly fine with voting the other people. Why does Daiyousei care that I said I don't understand how anyone could have a townread on Kaguya? Even if only Kagerou was townreading Kaguya, nobody else was voting her. I didn't understand why nobody was interested in a Kaguya vote and said so. None of this is actually relevant to my alignment in any way and none of this even gives a reason not to vote Kaguya. It just feels like a discredit attempt, or at best an attempt to look like Daiyousei is questioning and investigative (and therefore towny).

Why does Daiyousei care about the fact that my scumread of Kaguya can be applied to other people?

- Because the line I asked about

didn't

apply to Kaguya. Here, I'll ask directly - how does "Anything that looks town indicative can be faked with a bit of practice" apply to someone about whom you just said ""none of her posts are town indicative"? If you can answer that question to my satisfaction then I'll feel better about you using it as justification for the Kaguya vote.

Why does Daiyousei care that I said I don't understand how anyone could have a townread on Kaguya? Even if only Kagerou was townreading Kaguya, nobody else was voting her. I didn't understand why nobody was interested in a Kaguya vote and said so.

- "I don't understand how anyone can have a strong townread on her!" is

not

the same thing as "I don't understand why nobody is interested in a Kaguya vote". Do not try to equate these two things. If you can give me evidence that a non-trivial collection of people that actually had a strong townread of Kaguya at the time, then I'll gladly (and sheepishly) withdraw the point. But don't give me evidence that a non-trivial collection of people weren't interested in a Kaguya vote and try to present that as them having strong townreads on Kaguya. Speaking for myself, there are a handful of people I presently am not interested in voting but also do not have strong townreads on, and I imagine the same is true of most of the rest of the game.

How this is all relevant to your alignment is related to the "town has no reason to give bunk reasons for their votes" thing I covered above. I was skeptical of your vote, and your response to my questioning about it made me more skeptical, ergo I lean toward you being Mafia.

I also mentioned that her cases on both Aya and Kagerou were fake, and I stand by that.

Aya breaking character happened after Daiyousei's bad case on Aya and therefore has no relevance to whether or not the case was good.

I already covered this in 891, but I suppose I can expand on the Aya stuff specifically.

My comments on Aya were made in 392. Aya had made nine posts up to that point. Here's the first so that anyone that wants to follow along can click the ISO link. In those nine posts, there is a partial role claim in 229 and a general Mafia behavior opinion in 255. Beyond that, I do not see any game state opinions in any of those posts - who she thinks is town, who she thinks is Mafia, reasons for those beliefs, etc. Given this, I do not think it is particularly unfair to have categorized her play up to that point as "do-nothing" or "pretending to contribute". If there are game state opinions in those posts that I have missed, please do point them out for me! Otherwise I will stand by what I said in 392 and find it very suspect that you continue to disagree.

Also, as long as I'm talking about this, given you very recently settled on Yuuka being town, what do you think of her vote for and commentary on Aya from that same general time frame compared to my commentary?

i take back what i said about not being invested in a daiyousei townread this little big fairy can BALL

Leaving things at like page 49 because I need to take a walk, but I think this is pretty much everything I'd wanna say anyway. VOTE: Kagerou

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I feel the best about the fairies (yes even clownpiss as much as she wants to kill me) and I need Kagerou or perhaps Koishi in a bodybag (but again we'll see on Koishi).

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I have read Ichirin's Divine Fist "GIANT FUCKING WALL" twice now, and I think that the most town indicative part of it is the fact that she put it in spoiler tags.

However, I am underwhelmed by the actual content.

(espe : i think the way he reads me / daiyousei is extremely forced)

[Ichirin Kumoi]

it means get my pronouns right punk

[Ichirin Kumoi]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because I'm pretty sure Dai was just speaking divine truth about Kagerou. And I'm a monk, trust me on this one.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because I'm pretty sure Dai was just speaking divine truth about Kagerou. And I'm a monk, trust me on this one.

Hello it is I, confused Koishi, who read your wall that barely mentioned me but I am apparently your second-favorite bodybag-to-be?

There is a large gap between how much I want to vote Kagerou and how much I want to vote you. I'm still operating mostly off of you pre-making case walls (and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case) and I'm most likely not making any moves atleast until I dedicate some time to reading them after you fix Yuuka and perchance make another case or two. I'd say I want Marisa but admittedly Daiyousei spitting facts is quite enough for me because Marisa is both not very caught up and I'm not very aware of Marisa's old posts anymore anyway.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'd say I want Marisa but admittedly Daiyousei spitting facts is quite enough for me because Marisa is both not very caught up and I'm not very aware of Marisa's old posts anymore anyway.

ebwop: ISN'T quite enough for me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Also deadline is still 5 days away so I don't care for the idea of a Koishi compromise wagon if we somehow really don't want to vote Kagerou.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Ichirin

i'm cool with 1v1ing

Cute OMGUS.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Ichirin

i'm cool with 1v1ing

Cute OMGUS.

When i get pushed by scum i bite back

OMGUS is just buzzwording

Alright then, you wanna tell everyone about your cool genuine scumcase you've been cooking up on me or did you just start throwing stones because I came onto your wagon?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Because I'm pretty sure you saw me voting for you and just decided to go "yep, forced read, scum"

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Ichirin

i'm cool with 1v1ing

Cute OMGUS.

When i get pushed by scum i bite back

OMGUS is just buzzwording

Alright then, you wanna tell everyone about your cool genuine scumcase you've been cooking up on me or did you just start throwing stones because I came onto your wagon?

going right for the throat i see

i don't have a case prepared but i'll just say that the way you voted me is extremely indicative that you are extremely excited to be voting me / you are projecting this excitement to us, something that town would have no reason for in this gamestate

especially disingenuous considering me being wagoned is nothing new, i'm not OMGUSing random people voting me

i think i'm at E-3 or something

It feels weird to me that you think I'm particularly excited to be voting for you because I don't think anything in my readwall indicates excitement about my vote lol. I'm excited about Daiyousei cooking but that doesn't translate to excitement about my vote, now does it? And speaking of disingenuous I'm of course going to be skeptical about any reasoning you propose that's related to my reasons/intent for voting you considering you got caught red-handed with a disingenuous Tenshi read.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Daiyousei gaming!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

at best she called me out for inefficiency, which yeah i'll admit i very much was

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't particularly trust you on this one. Daiyousei has been putting in the effort, you really haven't.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

And if i look at you with my cute wolf eyes does that change anything

I think a metaphorical equivalent of puppy-dog eyes is how you've been getting away by mostly just fucking around despite the amount of people side-eying you. So no.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

at best she called me out for inefficiency, which yeah i'll admit i very much was

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't particularly trust you on this one. Daiyousei has been putting in the effort, you really haven't.

What do you mean you don't trust me, like this is not a question of trust this is a question of what was our conversation about

And it's up to me to trust and believe you on that. FMPOV, you got caught red-handed with a bogus reason to push Tenshi, and now you're trying to say it was something else in the post-post-mortem long after it's been done by you and discussed by Daiyousei and me. I don't think the statement of intent matches the actions especially after it's been brought up and you're being pushed for it.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Kagerou can you explain why you feel this is scum Ichirin trying to push through your elimination vs. town Ichirin who feels confident about a read for the first time and is excited about it?

i am still catching up on the last six-ish pages so if you've done this already feel free to ignore this

Well, I feel like Ichirin would definetly be more honest about it if sie was actually town and excited about flipping scum!Kagerou

secondly, this scumread being on me at this exact moment just feel extremely convinient? Right as hir wagon threatens to get back on track

I did a catch-up. Something in that catch-up led me to believe you're scum. Go figure!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

at best she called me out for inefficiency, which yeah i'll admit i very much was

Again, you'll have to forgive me if I don't particularly trust you on this one. Daiyousei has been putting in the effort, you really haven't.

What do you mean you don't trust me, like this is not a question of trust this is a question of what was our conversation about

And it's up to me to trust and believe you on that. FMPOV, you got caught red-handed with a bogus reason to push Tenshi, and now you're trying to say it was something else in the post-post-mortem long after it's been done by you and discussed by Daiyousei and me. I don't think the statement of intent matches the actions especially after it's been brought up and you're being pushed for it.

It just really feels like you're overall trying to deflect and detract. And furthermore, y'know, this is a game about reading between the lines and ascribing meaning to even small things (as annoying as that gets). Calling my push disingenuous and convenient and etc etc or not I just Can't take your word for it on "I was just being inefficient, that's all!".

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I'm not really sure I understand Ichirin's vote. If I ever had to pick between Ichirin and Kagerou I'd vote Ichrin

1186

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Skill issue.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Agreeing with Dai, which, yea, L, I should do a little homework of my own. However I do still regardless feel like Kagerou has been getting away with putting in barely any real effort to solve or sort slots, because even if the Tenshi thing isn't a slamdunk fake-ass bogus vote it's still hardly ANYTHING in the direction of actual solving. But overall I am actually invested in this read as opposed to my prior votes on Reisen or Kaguya who I mostly just voted because I disliked their vibes at that moment.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

Okay, so that was a realistic position for you two hours ago, but why are you not making a point of going back to read? You've made posts since so you HAVE been here?

I have hobbies outside of Mafia and I got dragged into a brief 1v1 with Kagerou, give me a break.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I've also said I'm waiting for the Yuuka revision, to boot.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

You haven't done it yet.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

They did do the revision.
I think.
Also, don’t wait around for that.

If they did it and I missed it I'm gonna be pissed, but if they didn't then it would be better to wait in order to compare and contrast.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay yeah I'm stupid, 51 is one of the pages that flew completely under the radar for me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay I definitely concur the Yuuka "middle-of-the-pack" read is weird because a lot of the ungrokables and dislikes are just Yuuka eccentricities (and not ones I think are relevant, mind, like I talked about in my wall)? The typos are annoying, I wish I knew what "2076" was supposed to be, but moreover it just feels like the equation is Towntell+Towntell+Towntell+Towntell+Scumtell=? and you fucked up your math and landed on Nulltown. I just don't agree overall.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

For the record, I knew it was a null read, but the sides of the scale feel weird.

This.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I think I'm gonna take a shower and play Helldivers so I'll see you all either later tonight or tomorrow, assuming 10 pages don't spontaneously manifest again.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

the picker of nits.......

[Ichirin Kumoi]

kinda think the way Ichirin is playing around Dai indicates T/S tbh

to elaborate on that, in a scum!Ichirin world hir play really feels like wanting to lim Dai after limming me by crediting her to the push, and likewise i doubt Dai would be ok with her partner sticking so closely to her

if the last scum turns out to also be someone in a precarious position, i'll maybe reconsider that as a "desperation play" sorta deal but for now there's no real reason to think about that

Why the actual fuck would I push Dai if you flip town?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Turning on someone who started the wagon you yourself earnestly believed in because of a greenflip is a usually very dumb move regardless of alignment.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I am most interested in Koishi's Aya case, more then either of the current dueling wagons, but am also interested in their take on Kagerou.

But then I can happily end the day with Ichirin's death

starting to think clownpiece just has it out for me in a "doesnt listen to anything i say" way and not a "just dedicated to the wagon" way

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: ichirin

E-2.
Full claim or you can wait until e-1 if you’d like.

Sure, I'm just gonna get flipped anyways, I can feel it. Not like anyone

really

wants to elaborate on their cases and reads on me.

I am

Medicine Melancholy

, and I poison people. Yippee !

Specifically, my night action lets me increase or decrease people's Poison stacks, up to 3, and my visitors also have their poison increased by 1. The poison does nothing on it's own until I activate one of my spellcards at night, which increases poison on everyone by 1, and depending on their stacks inflicts Hated, Hated+Macho, or Hated+Macho+Random action redirection for the next day and night. My other spellcard, also at night, inflicts 3 poison on someone and makes them target my night target as well.

I was rather looking forward to playing around with this role but I don't particularly think I'm going to live for very long either which way now. So thanks.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Play nice, folks.

Day 1 Deadline: (expired on 2024-03-18 00:59:57)

Also I don't particularly get why the game came to a complete halt for five hours especially when Aya was about to step back or simmer down.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

It's only negative if I'm a dumbass.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Not like anyone

really

wants to elaborate on their cases and reads on me.

This whole game just feels like 75% of the playerlist putting in like 1/3rd of the effort as the other 25% and no one cares. Clownpiece has just been pushing me with shit like "Yeah that feels fake. Yeah I think that's scummy. Also very convenient timing on that catch up Ichirin!" instead of actual arguments, Yuuka's

had

arguments like, hundreds of posts ago. Can't particularly find any in the here and now or really ANY reason why she's still on me. Kagerou. Koishi still seemingly wants me dead after clearing things up and there's a cool realistic chance I just die before she posts her casewall and she gets to get away with not elaborating on her reason for being on the already since flipped wagon. Tenshi's just screaming "THEATER!!!!!!!!!".

Sanae.

It feels like no one on my stupid fucking wagon is actually operating in good faith for one reason or another. I guarantee there's two scum in the names mentioned.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Well, which ones do you think are bad faith?

You, Kagerou and Clownpiece for sure, Koishi could be trying to coast along without having to give in-depth analysis on me as an easy mislim, as I theorized. Otherwise I think Sanae and Tenshi just aren't really bothering to put in the effort to read me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

For me, it’s just an internal clock thing. Brain says move game forward.

I deleted most of this post because I’m pretty sure it would be a strawman.

You could really do with an reassessment of game state then.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Clownpiece has just been pushing me with shit like "Yeah that feels fake. Yeah I think that's scummy. Also very convenient timing on that catch up Ichirin!" instead of actual arguments

I made multiple cases for why I think you were scum this game. You either did not read my case against you, or you are willfully ignoring it.

Either way this comes across to me as just generic shade against the wagon.

Show me your cool good case you've had all along then because I can't find anything even remotely resembling a proper case. There's a few posts that give

some

actual reasons for voting me, the ENTIRE REST of your mentions of me are just to take jabs and try to drum up support for killing me. Every single interaction with my interaction from you has been disingenuous bloodlust. I was going to put a link on "posts" but I honestly couldn't find anything else that wasn't just a variant or reiteration of one of the previous posts and or their arguments. You're pretty much just playing like an Executioner here and I'm not very fond of how you can't even fucking pretend to be in good faith and yet town STILL just doesn't fucking care. Your arguments are wildly disproportionate to the fervor of your read and I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow.

VOTE: Clownpiece

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Part of me wanted to say that scumflip on Clownpiece exonerates Kagerou after catching a glance of this post but I have alot of issues with a similar more recent post:

Well, which ones do you think are bad faith?

You, Kagerou and Clownpiece for sure, Koishi could be trying to coast along without having to give in-depth analysis on me as an easy mislim, as I theorized. Otherwise I think Sanae and Tenshi just aren't really bothering to put in the effort to read me.

That's still like 4 townies at least who are legitimately thinking you're scum, i'm especially curious how clown is "in bad faith" where like, her case on you is quite voluminous

1. Did you miss the part where I said no one is in good faith or entirely aware of what's going on? Are you counting yourself as a "townie"? I can't say for sure if there's 2 or 3 scum, though I'm willing to bet 3 considering everyone is a power role, but either way I would think you'd understand that town being up for a wagon does not make it a good wagon inherently especially when the odds that scum are all just chilling nonchalantly on it are very high and that the majority of town who ARE on it just aren't fucking paying attention to the facts of the case or are being intentionally obtuse for some mysterious reason.
2. Obviously, I am of the firm belief that Clownpiece is not even remotely good faith right now, but what I want to call attention to is that I think Clownpiece was MORE good faith when you were saying she WASN'T. It's very mysterious as to why you said these conflicting things but I'm realizing that either way you two seem to love to defend eachother's reads on me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I mean, I have been pretty explicit on the reasons that I think that you are scum.

Spoiler:

(note, I edited the post that used she/her pronouns to use the correct pronouns, all other posts are unedited quotes)

I'm saying that if Ichirin was scum she came out and chose violence.

I have seen this voiced a couple times (it may have been Aya both times, but I *think* it was actually someone else the first time, but I have not looked back).

But like... my interpretation of Ichirin's response was the exact opposite. Hir response did feel like it was designed to appease hir voters, but it just back fired.

Sie immediately went and found a New and Novel thing to be suspicious of, and double and tripled down on it (to a silly degree imo), when the main accusation was that there was no sign of solving from hir, and it felt like sie was avoiding questioning hir voters - like hir goal was just to change our minds.

It was not until Yuuka kept being so aggressive that sie started to snap back at one of hir voters.

Plus, since then, it feels like they suddenly had a topic to pursue with all their might when they got pressure, but then they just... stopped pursuing anything as soon as the thread focus moved away from them.

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because

I am currently reading back through to track people's interactions with the thread, but this is eww.

They only think that their own read is not forced? and for reasons other then "those are my reads" ?

And speaking of disingenuous I'm of course going to be skeptical about any reasoning you propose that's related to my reasons/intent for voting you considering you got caught red-handed with a disingenuous Tenshi read.

This also feels like, despite them saying how great Dai's case is, Ichirin does not even really understand why Dai was scum reading Kagerou, because this is not the basis of Dai's case at all.

Reading through it all again, my over all impressions of the 2 are

Ichirin: the entire thing felt really fake, and I still want to kill this slot with fire.

I thank you very much for pointing out the own strange dichotomy in your past and present reasons for voting me. You

had

an actual anchor point for your case before, my initial response to my wagon, but now you just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don’t think an executioner meets the flavor.

Probably.

More of a metaphor. I think Clownpiece is just straight scum.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

@Ichirin you were concerned there are only two scum?

The setup doesn't specify numbers so I am actually a little concerned about a third scum, yes.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow

This at least is vaguely true, in that I do not see the reason to restate the reasons every time I encourage people to vote you, when I feel like I spelled it out prior.

Once again: Disproportionate fervor. You sunk your talons into the first bit of exposed flesh you could find and just decided not to let go even to try and find a better spot to stab me in.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't believe Townpiece makes this level of read over some uncharitable interpretations of my reaction to the wagon.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

God I cannot wait to be done with this game.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Part of me wanted to say that scumflip on Clownpiece exonerates Kagerou after catching a glance of this post but I have alot of issues with a similar more recent post:

Well, which ones do you think are bad faith?

You, Kagerou and Clownpiece for sure, Koishi could be trying to coast along without having to give in-depth analysis on me as an easy mislim, as I theorized. Otherwise I think Sanae and Tenshi just aren't really bothering to put in the effort to read me.

That's still like 4 townies at least who are legitimately thinking you're scum, i'm especially curious how clown is "in bad faith" where like, her case on you is quite voluminous

1. Did you miss the part where I said no one is in good faith or entirely aware of what's going on? Are you counting yourself as a "townie"? I can't say for sure if there's 2 or 3 scum, though I'm willing to bet 3 considering everyone is a power role, but either way I would think you'd understand that town being up for a wagon does not make it a good wagon inherently especially when the odds that scum are all just chilling nonchalantly on it are very high and that the majority of town who ARE on it just aren't fucking paying attention to the facts of the case or are being intentionally obtuse for some mysterious reason.
2. Obviously, I am of the firm belief that Clownpiece is not even remotely good faith right now, but what I want to call attention to is that I think Clownpiece was MORE good faith when you were saying she WASN'T. It's very mysterious as to why you said these conflicting things but I'm realizing that either way you two seem to love to defend eachother's reads on me.

you can't be both town and in bad faith, like, that doesn't add up

You would be very surprised.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

This is probably not the right time or approach.
But how could, exactly, your role be used effectively for town?

I probably need to PM the mod to see if we can multi-task spellcards and our actions, but beyond the fact that Hated on everyone for a day can be very played around, I can probably just decrease the poison level of someone I think is town to avert that, same with Macho if they already visited me or some such. Action redirection is also very useful for trolling mafia, if you couldn't tell, and there's a decent chance there's town killing power and mafia protective power considering our alignments are (allegedly) irrelevant to our roles.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: ichirin

E-2.
Full claim or you can wait until e-1 if you’d like.

Sure, I'm just gonna get flipped anyways, I can feel it. Not like anyone

really

wants to elaborate on their cases and reads on me.

I am

Medicine Melancholy

, and I poison people. Yippee !

Specifically, my night action lets me increase or decrease people's Poison stacks, up to 3, and my visitors also have their poison increased by 1. The poison does nothing on it's own until I activate one of my spellcards at night, which increases poison on everyone by 1, and depending on their stacks inflicts Hated, Hated+Macho, or Hated+Macho+Random action redirection for the next day and night. My other spellcard, also at night, inflicts 3 poison on someone and makes them target my night target as well.

I was rather looking forward to playing around with this role but I don't particularly think I'm going to live for very long either which way now. So thanks.

This just in: I misread my own fucking spellcard. I don't even have an excuse I'm just dumb. My spellcard doesn't put an extra stack on everyone it just activates the current poison stacks. Thank you Koishi for prompting me to look at my PM again and realizing my mistake

[Ichirin Kumoi]

@Ichirin- do your targets know if they’ve been poisoned?

Specifically, this question.

Yes

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay so, you're presently scum reading Clown, Wolf, me? Yeah?

What do you take of Aya's words about you?

Clownpiece > Kagerou >>>>> You roughly, yeah.

I enjoyed Aya's analysis, and overall I think Aya's analysis has come from an understanding town perspective. I must admit that I'm probably biased towards my defenders right now when it feels like my detractors have immaterial and missing arguments, but I think Aya has looked consistently genuine in her solving attempts.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Ichirin has claimed, and their role as claimed has scum equity, and I think actually negative utility even if real and town.

My sister in the bodhisattva of mercy, there is no mechanical scum equity.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

My sister in the bodhisattva of mercy, there is no mechanical scum equity.

Turns out, I don't find "Nuh uh" to be a very compelling argument.

Then you're just flagrantly ignoring the facts of the game you absolute

rat.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I agree with Koishi there's probably some tiny level of alignment-based adjustment but I believe GIF when he says that roles are divorced from alignment otherwise.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Could you not insult rats.
They’re pretty cute you know.

I'm definitely a rodent fan but not when they're trying to get me killed with slanderous lies and the like!!!!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

The scum equity of that role is just insane imo?

Ichirin, is there a reason why me saying your role has scum equity makes me a "rat"

But Tenshi saying that your role has "insane" scum equity gets no comment?

She's a rat too if she actually believes it. I missed that and "oops all scummy bullshit" from Koishi at first, and especially now that I know I'm not just condemning all of town to being Hated for a day this is a pretty Neat role for town, especially the random and deliberate redirection.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

You can say the role has scum equity but if your read is influenced by that in a game that's supposed to have roles divorced from alignments then you're just doing even more bad faith shit.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

New question: why not claim the negative aspect of visiting you in advance during the mass claim at the games start of negative utilities? Since you know, it runs the risk of town roles who visit you getting caught in the crossfire?

Did not occur to me at the time, honestly. I also just generally wanted to try and cook and was still operating under the comically wrong belief I increase everyone's poison stacks (as opposed to "virulence" in the flavor text) when I popped my spell card anyway.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't think scum visits me in any way but to kill me now that I've fullclaimed either way so like, RIP.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

if your read is influenced by that

Its not.

Could've fooled me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Did Marisa just flake? Did they get prodded? I wonder.

actually yeah whats!! up with that

[Ichirin Kumoi]

*Salute*

Now that we know who that was, I'm NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER voting that slot.

That was townwarm.

Need to make sure to avoid them if they always play like this as town then.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

*tilts head*
How much mafia have you played ichi I forgot if this was ever brought up.

I don’t think this is violating the spirit of the rules because you can just lie.

I've played my fair share. I really

do not

care for the 'dumbtell' discussion because I earnestly think there's a realistic chance of 3 scum when again, we're all decently powerful PRs, and the mod is also a total troll. In general I just don't really super care about this game anymore because I don't think there's anyway I don't just die here for reasons that I can only fathom as largely bogus, even if Clownpiece isn't here to discredit me every time I

breathe.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Kagerou

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay.
So in general my opinion is that I’d prefer you saved comments like that until after the game. Since we’re playing mafia i cannot gauge how genuine you’re being even if you insist you’re serious.

I'll speak as genuine as I want and you can believe me as much as you want.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

*tilts head*
How much mafia have you played ichi I forgot if this was ever brought up.

I don’t think this is violating the spirit of the rules because you can just lie.

I've played my fair share. I really

do not

care for the 'dumbtell' discussion because I earnestly think there's a realistic chance of 3 scum when again, we're all decently powerful PRs, and the mod is also a total troll. In general I just don't really super care about this game anymore because I don't think there's anyway I don't just die here for reasons that I can only fathom as largely bogus, even if Clownpiece isn't here to discredit me every time I

breathe.

The tell isn't thinking that 3 scum are possible, that's the standard in 13p games. It's the idea of a 2 scum game that people are having issues with

I don't particularly pay attention to the standards of the various queues if I'm being entirely real. Maybe implying 2 scum is on me. BUT IN THAT CASE there is infact almost certainly 2 scum on my wagon and 1 in the wings.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Honestly probably 3 if they think they can REALLY just get away with killing me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

This game has been a special kind of hell and I think it's taught me that anon games are NOT for me.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

and telling what alignement this is coming from sounds even worse

So you're just gonna skip putting in the effort and lim me instead, I see how it is.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't particularly pay attention to the standards of the various queues if I'm being entirely real. Maybe implying 2 scum is on me.

I mean this goes beyond that to the point that I'd genuinely struggle to find a non-multiball non-mountainous 13p Normal/Open/Theme that isn't either 3 scum or 2 scum + 1 traitor so unless you literally only ever play/read Micros/Larges I don't really get how you'd have this misconception

I GET IT I'M AN IDIOT

[Ichirin Kumoi]

UNVOTE:

I

do understand that yes, I've just been sitting around like a duck of some sort doing nothing but lashing out and proclaiming bad faith from my pushers. I fucking get it, I'm not really trying to DO anything. I don't devote nearly as much time or effort to mafia as most others here do and I tend to put my free time towards other things. That's not an excuse, but it also is. At the same time however, as I mull this post over, I'm realizing that at this point I probably just need to die either way, because I don't think picking fights with Kagerou or Clownpiece or whoever is going to just nail me a scum and miraculously save me.

I think Kagerou spoke a mote of indirect truth about my wagon. I'm a slot who doesn't seem to know left from right, who's just helplessly flailing around. My crackpot theory? I am NOT being targeted by like the whole scumteam or whatnot.

I'm being defended.

Flip me, see that deliciously red Incident Resolver in my role, and start looking at not who was taking their pound of flesh, but who

wasn't.

I believe it is in scum's best interest to try and keep me alive for the time being instead of using me as an easy day 1 mislim, in order to both find a bigger fish to fry (like say...

Koishi?

) and to have some dumb LHF townie mucking up discussion on D2, or better yet disrupting things with their poison and redirection. I did genuinely consider redirecting Kagerou onto Clownpiece earlier if I made to N1, after all, if she's Marisa maybe she'd try to Master Spark someone. Either way: I think, primarily within Dai/Eternity/Aya, there is scum defending me in order to play the longcon. Maybe. I could also just be losing it.

If you don't believe me? Vote me and prove yourself wrong! If you do? Honestly just vote me anyway so I can dip and forget this game ever happened!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't particularly want to make a move against Dai/Larva/Aya right this instant because 1. My death and flip is the only thing that imo makes this theory actually worth looking at and if people can't objectively know I'm town then I think there's going to be Problems and 2. I'm also just spitballing some insane albeit possible idea that occurred to me.

I WILL take making it to D2 if that's what everyone decides but I don't have any confidence I'm going to suddenly start popping off if I do. So again, consider the following: Flip me!!!

[Ichirin Kumoi]

not_mafia's opening

hell is real

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I think the main thing to look is at how Dai and Larva have interacted with Kagerou because Koishi just came up because "hey, useful town role, maybe...?" but I'm realizing Kagerou's always been the more endangered slot, and like I hypothesized: Master Spark. Very spooky for scum who know a thing or two about Touhou.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Can…can people you know.
Actually honor the whole anon thing.

Please?

I get we’re meta guessing all the time this game but I enjoy the ambiguity. At least.

I doubt it's actually N_M. People like stealing N_M's bits, after all. Still! Hell is real if someone in the game has decided to steal N_M's bit.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

which is to say it is not unreasonable to assume that "kagerou", who is apparently just marisa in a fursuit, has a spellcard that's a vig shot, possibly with some sort of extra modifiers that make it better

Nod nod.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

VOTE: Ichirin

KILL THIS
KILL DAIYOUSEI
KILL AYA
KILL KAGUYA

GAME OVER
GG
I WIN
YOU LOSE
BAIBAI

Absolutely miserable slot.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Miserable because you can't control or sway me?

No because you're annoying as all hell.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

the curse

[Ichirin Kumoi]

today i learned Kagerou is claiming a dayvig shot and i am left questioning why they wouldn’t just keep this to themselves as scum and just shoot an obvtown player in the event they become the elimination for today

or why as scum they would just lie about a role that should be provable

i hate this for me

don't get me wrong i kinda wanted to keep it to myself

but then people started going "Lol Marisa has her final spark spellcard, does that mean Kagerou can vig someone?" And at this stage that probably takes away the point in hiding it

Would greatly hesitate to say it's something you could've hided at all considering we were told frame 1 you're actually Marisa.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I think the main thing to look is at how Dai and Larva have interacted with Kagerou because Koishi just came up because "hey, useful town role, maybe...?" but I'm realizing Kagerou's always been the more endangered slot, and like I hypothesized: Master Spark. Very spooky for scum who know a thing or two about Touhou.

did you ever do this and if so what were your findings?

Was moreso talking in general that someone should do it but if I'm still alive I suppose I'll do it sometime today? Hopefully? I'm mostly just twiddling my thumbs waiting to die because I expect that's how I'd be most useful.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I suppose I could join a Koishi wagon but at this stage I have like zero spoons for Mafia.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

i don't think Ichirin being demoralized is all that alignment indicative on its own. i can see where sie as town would be over it at this point

the problem is the shift from "omg maybe my defenders are scum all along let me dig into this!!" to lurking out the rest of the day. the whole "i'm just waiting to die" schtick becomes more difficult to buy when it's clear from the gamestate that the day 1 elimination is not at all set in stone

it's starting to feel like a weaponized excuse to stop contributing and allowing us to forget about hir

I've made it expressly clear that the complete wackjob idea of "I'm being defended by scum" is only

really

investigable, imo, if I get flipped and can be proven as town. Something like that to me really needs an objective anchor point and it would furthermore be just extremely valuable VCA data to see who was hardline on the townie wagon. Speaking of hardline I really did not expect Clownpiece to ever stop riding my back and bonking me on the head in like, a million years.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

If I really am making it to D2 after all then I suppose I'll figure it the fuck out and stop being quite SO useless. Still catching up though.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Nothing says that can’t be a wolf role

Setup Information

• Alignments have been randomized before designing the setup. This did not factor into how I designed my setup.

mafiascum read the setup challenge

TRUE

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Marisa scum equity is through the roof with a Ichirin scumflip btw

...How?

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Marisa scum equity is through the roof with a Ichirin scumflip btw

...How?

Are you caught up yet?

Like a page away, still confusing.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

I don't get how you'd be confused when Marisa started a flashwagon away from you and right on Sanae, how that would be sus if you ended up being red?

Well when you put it like that I think I understand.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

ANYWAY: Sanae Knowledge. Patchouli Kochiya.

I think the utilitarian paranoid way of going about the claim is killing it anyway because if she's scum she could just. Not cast the IC-stump spell. It's kinda lose-lose for scum!Sanae but just not killing herself tonight will probably force the vote to be on her tomorrow as opposed to Sanae gets stumped and we can focus on other slots.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

we are not switching last minute to dai

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Ichirin Kumoi [E-2]: Yuuka Kazami, Reisen Udongein Inaba, Tenshi Hinanawi, Sanae Kochiya, Eternity Larva
Sanae Kochiya [E-2]: Marisa Kirisame, Clownpiece, Kagerou Imaizumi, Daiyousei, Kaguya Houraisan

Not Voting [3]: Aya Shameimaru, Koishi Komeiji, Ichirin Kumoi

sleep in the bed you've made you bastards

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Ichirin ELI5 your role again?

People who visit me are poisoned, I can poison others actively, poison stacks up to 3 does nothing until I activate one of my spellcards, then it inflicts Hated/Hated+Macho/Hated+Macho+Random redirect for a day and night. My other spellcard maxes someone's poison and redirects them to my target.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

ANYWAY: Sanae Knowledge. Patchouli Kochiya.

I think the utilitarian paranoid way of going about the claim is killing it anyway because if she's scum she could just. Not cast the IC-stump spell. It's kinda lose-lose for scum!Sanae but just not killing herself tonight will probably force the vote to be on her tomorrow as opposed to Sanae gets stumped and we can focus on other slots.

Also: If Sanae is scum then assuming it's just a straight alignment reveal... lol

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Sanae almost never casts IC-Treestump as scum.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Not to completely muck things up last second but I think it'd be funny if I voted Sanae and Aya voted me and we made Koishi kingmaker.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Change that to never does. Sanae would be costing her team a whole cycle if she did that.

Pretty much. Only value she gets out of it is being able to keep talking in scum PT.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Not to completely muck things up last second but I think it'd be funny if I voted Sanae and Aya voted me and we made Koishi kingmaker.

I don't plan to vote opposite of Koishi if I can help it, because I town read that slot so heavily. But... I also won't make a choice I don't believe in.

Either way, VOTE: Sanae. I haven't had a very towny impression of Sanae in the first place for the longest time and the claim has me worrying.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

oh my god what dreaded mire has this turned into while i was away

[Ichirin Kumoi]

are we just openly inviting scum!sanae to waste our time by pinky promising to self-vig and then not

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Welcome to Hell, Ichirin.

no that's hecatia and chiyari

I mean Byakuren WAS in Makai.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

She could get one, though. If it fancied her.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

(i am not contributing to this weighted probability role analysis exercise because it is my onion that any plan that counts on night actions playing out in an expected manner is doomed before it begins)

incredibly true