JOAT uPick | FIN!

[Dunnstral]

I still personally feel Bell should be using their ability on Cabd this day phase.

Even in light of the loverize?

How does that factor in?

so that's redirection or roleblock+murder

How would it be roleblock and murder?

I'm down to kill Light.

Hide resolves before block as well. If you don't believe me ask the mod how those two roles interact.

Eh... Hider is not commuter, and generally roleblocker supersedes action resolution order when it's affecting another ability like this

[Dunnstral]

Um, I know I’m tunneled.

But I do find it very strange that Pooky would not claim a reflexive loverizer
While lurking out last day phase, while simultaneously admonishing maid for not playing strictly to win condition.

It only targets one person

[Dunnstral]

If Pooky was targeted by lightning rod, then I see two ways of it playing out:

1. MariaR targets first, so she is the target

or

2. Pooky's ability is redirected to themself and they form a neighborhood by themself

[Dunnstral]

I still personally feel Bell should be using their ability on Cabd this day phase.

Even in light of the loverize?

How does that factor in?

so that's redirection or roleblock+murder

How would it be roleblock and murder?

I'm down to kill Light.

Hide resolves before block as well. If you don't believe me ask the mod how those two roles interact.

Eh... Hider is not commuter, and generally roleblocker supersedes action resolution order when it's affecting another ability like this

Do you believe that scum got a vig on top of the vengeful?

Not really. I'm pretty sure that light_ganski is the mafia. Just that I think hider and commuter are being conflated here.

[Dunnstral]

Drew/Light/Lap ends the game, right? Time to relax.

It does?

Don't you think the ordering here by MariaR is weird? She does Drew first, then Light, then Lap, but what prompted that order? If it were alphabetical it would be Drew, then Lap, then Light. If it were based on length of the name it would be Lap, then Drew, then Light; though these are shortened names so perhaps that is arbitrary anyway. If it were based on who she finds the most likely it should be Light first and then probably Drew and then Lap last. If it was based on the order names appear in the player list it would be Lap, then Drew, and then finally Light. But no, we got Drew first, Light second, Lap third. It's so random.

[Dunnstral]

You're right.

[Dunnstral]

So none of Bell, Pooky, or Doctor Drew could act last night.

There's also the chance mafia chose not to kill due to Bell's ability.

[Dunnstral]

My thoughts: Mass claim and kill Doctor Drew.

[Dunnstral]

No need on my end my roles are used up.

Here is what MariaR claimed.

[Dunnstral]

Though they never claimed exactly how their first ability worked and it's not clear why Ircher's role was not redirected

[Dunnstral]

I claimed my abilities already. I have 2 abilities:

1-shot Impossible Neighborizer
1-shot Novice Publishing Beholder

Night 1 I took no action
Night 2 I targeted Laplacian with the beholder
Night 3 I targeted Bell with the neighborizer

I do have a neighborhood with Bell and I got them to relay Pooky's claim. Pooky also only has 2 abilities:

The reflexive lover ability they claimed already
And an activated bulletproof ability

[Dunnstral]

Essentially, this means I want everyone to name the three players they want to eliminate outside of the lovers and myself, in order of most to least.

Doctor Drew, Laplacian, Ircher

I don't think it is MariaR, lemon.tangerine, or HolySpiritTurtle

I don't really think it is Bell or Pooky either, honestly. Or you.

[Dunnstral]

Pooky says Ircher is the last mafia because 1312 is a chain saw from RH and they are not doing much when you look closer at them.

[Dunnstral]

Things that absolutely bug the shit out of me about Laplacian right now:

A: We have no actual proof there were three targets, we only KNOW of one, which was claimed to be hu tao. (Titus saw him on Bell)
B: If the parity cop is real, they chose two easily flipped townies, and Hu Tao, with a parity-town "clear" that sets Hu Tao up to endgame as "cleared town." Possible luck but weeeeeeeird.
C: They're demoralized as shit, which is kind of where I expect the final maf to be headspace wise.
D: Town already had several other investigative flipped (or claimed, me) (A hider that can basically never die)
E: If the parity cop is real, why wasn't it novice or otherwise gated? A N1 parity cop is fucking HUGE.

My own role was made Novice. I noticed bell claimed their role was made Novice too. It does bug me that triple parity cop was not a novice role.

With that said, if MariaR is a compulsive lightning rod maker that makes their role easier to believe as it would always fail night 1 anyways. Though we did have Bell's role which could have stopped that, or the elimination.

[Dunnstral]

Forensic Investigator is a pretty powerful role if we give Doctor Drew several nights to set up.

We would wait for mafia to make another night kill... then wait for Doctor Drew to target that player the next night... and then decide if we want to believe them

[Dunnstral]

Actually, Pooky's activated BP + reflexive loverizer also has big 3p energy

I disagree with that. What 3p wants to become a lover with someone else and die?

[Dunnstral]

I feel it's pretty unlikely we have a 3p role

[Dunnstral]

Yes and no. We chose a pool of abilities, then alignments rolled, then abilities picked from our pools. So while I wouldn't call 3Pesque abilities definitive proof, it's still some evidence

Wait, I thought you could choose your specific abilities

The mod chose from our submitted lists and then made adjustments when necessary. We did not get every role we asked for. Balance and all that.

[Dunnstral]

Actually, Pooky's activated BP + reflexive loverizer also has big 3p energy

I disagree with that. What 3p wants to become a lover with someone else and die?

Again though, roles were chosen before alignment

But the mod is still trying to keep things fair and balanced, and a 3p having that ability which is out of their control doesn't really seem fair to me.

[Dunnstral]

Are you sure Beeboy didn't submit that?

[Dunnstral]

No, I know what Beeboy did.

Also isn't the optimal play for like, us to vote out Lap Drew checks Fire or Joy (prob Fire given how popular Joy was)

Vote out lovers carry on?

If Doctor Drew waits a night they can find the current mafia making kills. otherwise it could be one of the already dead mafia who targeted those players.

[Dunnstral]

What is the optimal MAFIA usage of a parity cop? Hint: Pick two murky towns and one scum and then when that scum flips you have a guaranteed mislim, OR when one of those towns dies anyways, well, now you have your murk-scum "cleared as town".

First usage here doesn't make sense to me, as it is trading 1 town for 1 mafia which is not a good play.

[Dunnstral]

But light_ganski could have killed Joyboy.

[Dunnstral]

If we wait an extra night we know the kill has to come from the currently alive mafia. Or they will need to block or kill Drew if he is town.

[Dunnstral]

If we wait an extra night we know the kill has to come from the currently alive mafia. Or they will need to block or kill Drew if he is town.

Are you still in contact with Pooky?

What if anything has he noted in relation to the new posts that have hit the thread?

I'm in contact with Bell. Who sometimes sends stuff over from Pooky. Pooky wanted it known that they suspect Ircher some more.

[Dunnstral]

And Bell? What exactly does sir bell have to say?

They don't think it's you, MariaR, Lemon, HST. And are wondering if we have enough eliminations with those as town. They are less suspicious of Drew and are surprised by your read of Laplacian. They mentioned we should look at drew and Ircher before mentioning their fading suspicion.

[Dunnstral]

Bell says they only speak to terminally offline ladies.

And that they want to go for Laplacian or Ircher today. They suspect Drew less now.

[Dunnstral]

We confirmed that everyone visited Bell because of my action.

So the only people that could visit fire was mafia.

So Drew, knowing this information. What should you have done night 2? Oh yes. Use your action on fire.

We know the elite bodyguard didn't do anything because it would've killed someone.

And the reason you didn't do it and why you didn't have a guilty is because: You didn't read.

Huh you're right. 2/3 chance of being on not Hu Tao who died on day 2.

[Dunnstral]

As a reminder, (because I totally forgot it too) no one died last night. I roleblocked Drew. This could be a galaxy brained mafia play, could be that one of pooky and bell are scum in their little shadow realm. But uhhh, yeah

Not exactly galaxy brained. Mafia wouldn't want to clear both Bell and Pooky by killing somebody, so very believable that they simply no kill for a night.

[Dunnstral]

Oh and....

If it wasn't ircher that has the weirdness about stuff going through it was the recipient.

Which is laplacian. I am pretty sure.


Right now though I need to be talked down from worrying about HST and Dunn.

Well I pushed Relativistic Harmony, and while I was waffling between HST and the 2 mafia I did say I would eliminate both Hu Tao and Light.Ganski if HST flipped town. And I ended up flipping to Hu Tao when new information from Sakura came out.

HST is town because of interactions with other mafia. I don't think Hu Tao would have claimed like that if they knew HST's role and that they claimed to Sakura.

[Dunnstral]

I mean, if somebody not me or you is capable of the tripple-fakeout deepwolf, it's HST?

does he even like doing those weird gambits? I thought he was a straight shooter, I guess I havent really played with him that much but like the way that d2 went down with the fake cop into the reflector thingy did not feel planned.

tho I guess he could be a fucking criminal mastermind but I just feel like nah?

maybe he's in my blind spot because he has a cute anime avatar and I can never scumread those

I wouldn't really expect HST to be bussing their whole team here. They were clearly leaning towards light.ganski even without the guilty result.

[Dunnstral]

Did someone ask me about Cabd scum.

I don’t think they’re scum this game because of the neighborhood shenanigans, their utilization of Titus, their clear interest and proactivity etc etc.

Would be super surprised if cabd scum.

I’m near certain he’ll die before end game if we don’t hit scum before then.

They are pretty much confirmed not scum due to Laplacian's claim. Cabd would have been the target of the elimination. Unless mafia had a way to ignore the bus driver.

[Dunnstral]

Cabd, Maria, Hu, and Lap all visited Joyboy at some point this game

I showered and thought:

I hate that you posted this instead of demanding everyone fullclaim their visits first :/

Why is everyone playing suboptimally? Meme indeed.

Thought about this after the fact, though was just eager to get the results out before I passed out lol.

I don't get why Drew used his ability on Joyboy

wasnt the plan to make him inspect the latest murder victim so he could get a positive ID on the killer

Uhh, one scum left......and Joyboy was the latest murder victim at that point.

I literally was yelled at yesterday about why I hadn't used the forensics yet

Well I told you multiple times that you would only get a guilty if you waited for the latest kill, otherwise one of the existing mafia could have made that kill.

[Dunnstral]

dude has 3 abilities? wild

Still don't know why I'm should have waited more to take forensic, care to enlighten me?

4194, 4262, 4265, etc.

...wait. Hu Tao died before Joyboy did.

[Dunnstral]

Hu Tao was Bobby Kotick, a

JOAT Union Buster

Spoiler: Bobby Kotick Role PM

Welcome, Hu Tao!

You are

Bobby Kotick

, founder and CEO of Activision and Activision-Blizzard, You may be the most misunderstood person in the entire video game industry. Every change you've fought for is an improvement to the industry and to the players, of course. Gamers took exception to your focusing your company's resources on building on successful games rather than creating new game products, but obviously a few corners had to be cut and a few sacrifices made. Not by you of course, but a few employees may have suffered just a bit. But, your hand picked review board concluded that your improved processes would never, ever let something like sexual harassment and workplace revenge happen again. It was all coming together again when this crazy worldwide general strike bubbled up form nowhere. You have joined a cabal with like minded moguls who are determined to preserve the world's economy and your lofty places within it. The strikes must END!

You are a

JOAT Union Buster

Your abilities are:

• 1-shot Day Ability cop - Once during a game day you can investigate another player and learn what kinds of JOAT abilities they have
  
• 1-shot Vengeful - If you are eliminated, during twilight you can choose a player to kill on your way out

Your factional abilities are:

[REDACTED]

Win Condition

You win when the Union Busters achieve numerical parity with the

Union Members

or nothing can prevent that from occurring, as long as at least one

Union Buster

is alive

To CONFIRM, please reply to this PM and quote the 4th Game Specific Rule as posted in the Game thread.

Joyboy was a labor activist from Denmark, a

JOAT Union Member

Spoiler: Joyboy's Role PM

Welcome, Joyboy!

Labor and government in Denmark have had a positive relationship for many years and initially you wondered what this talk about a worldwide general strike had to do with Denmark. But, as you've learned more about the dire conditions for workers in many country you've been swept up with the ideal of making every country a workers' paradise. It's time to regroup, join hands with other labor activists, unions and movements around the globe and lift all workers into their rightful place among nations! Beware, though. There are rumors that Union Busters are working against you!

You are a labor activist and

JOAT Union Member

with the following abilities:

• 1-shot night-day doctor. You can use this ability at night to protect a player that night and the following day. You can choose to self-target. This ability works against one kill when used. If the player you protect is targeted by more than one killing ability during the same phase, they will die.
  
• 1-shot dead-neighborizer and conditional role-copier. Once at night you can form a neighborhood with a dead player. The neighborhood will last for as long as you are alive. Your dead neighbor can choose to give you one of their unused 1-shot abilities (if any are left) for your use.

Win Condition:

You win when all the

Union Busters

have been eliminated or nothing can prevent that from happening.

To CONFIRM, please reply to this PM and quote the 4th Game Specific Rule as posted in the Game thread.

Titus was a labor activist from the United States, a

JOAT Union Member

Spoiler: Titus's Role PM

Welcome, Titus!

The last nationwide general strike in the United States was the essential workers strike in 2020. Before then, the labor movement had been in a long accelerating decline for the most part. The COVID-19 crisis was a turning point, focusing on workers stuck on the bottom rungs with no or inadequate healthcare, abysmal working conditions, and paltry minimum wages. Larger, more powerful unions in the US stood up and extended a hand to help essential workers rise and it made a huge difference. But, as always, corporations find a way to strike back with new threats, whether it be AI, child labor, or lobbying for new regulations that allow them to more easily break up unionizing efforts. But the never-ending tug of war has some new faces. Workers all over the world have had enough of getting beaten down in the global economy and general strikes are spreading like wildfire. It's time to regroup, join hands with other labor activists, unions and movements around the globe and lift all workers into their rightful place among nations! Beware, though. There are rumors that Union Busters are working against you!

You are a labor activist and

JOAT Union Member

with the following abilities:

• 1-Shot combined Watcher and Messenger with the restriction that the message must be a tailored unique compliment to brighten their day. No hinting about your identity or reads.
  
• 1-Shot Novice Announcing Restricted Ability Copier - Target a player any day other than Day 1 to copy (not steal) the non-factional ability they last used at Night or during the Day. If the player you target hasn't used an ability, then your 1-shot will fail. If you succeed, then the player will be informed that they were targeted by an Ability Copier.

Win Condition:

You win when all the

Union Busters

have been eliminated or nothing can prevent that from happening.

To CONFIRM, please reply to this PM and quote the 4th Game Specific Rule as posted in the Game thread.

Hu Tao would have had to have used the day ability cop on Joyboy for this result. They couldn't have killed Joyboy. Last mafia is either MariaR or Laplacian.

[Dunnstral]

Or Doctor Drew.

[Dunnstral]

Or we have a Ninja.

[Dunnstral]

This point feels mute with Drew’s result.

Either Drew is scum or its cabd, Maria, or laplace.

It's not Cabd because Laplacian is claiming to have bus drove lemon and Cabd, and lemon died. So Cabd would have been targeted with the kill this night.

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, so, it does indeed have to be one of those three unless..
Uh no I can’t think of anything since pretty sure ninja would still show up. Yeah?

That's not clear to me, actually... it could function either way

[Dunnstral]

Last mafia is Laplacian by the way. Dr. Drew would be arguing himself into a corner with that list of players as I believe we had enough eliminations remaining for Maria, Dr. Drew, and Laplacian.

[Dunnstral]

The way we would joint win is if exe the mafia at the time I have everyone else marked by the way but that's the only way. If that sounds too much of a hassle you can exe me.

Alternatively MariaR is the last mafia and is trying to endgame us with this

[Dunnstral]

Are you saying Lemon confirmed your factional ability finder?

[Dunnstral]

From Lemon's role:

1-shot Even Night Snoopy Coworker. On the even night of your choice, you can target a player to learn what non-factional ability types they have and whether the abilities have been used.

From Hu Tao's role:

Your abilities are:
1-shot Day Ability cop - Once during a game day you can investigate another player and learn what kinds of JOAT abilities they have
1-shot Vengeful - If you are eliminated, during twilight you can choose a player to kill on your way out

Your factional abilities are:
[REDACTED]

I'm pretty sure MariaR is lying. Their factional ability would itself be a factional ability and Lemon wouldn't be able to see it. This means MariaR has another ability she is not claiming.

[Dunnstral]

Well I don't really mind if we want to try to win with MariaR. Or if we don't. There's no reason too and she might be screwing us over. If we do decide to do it I'd prefer if we planned things out. If she can get everyone paired before final 3/4 with one of drew/laplacian already dead that would be ideal.

[Dunnstral]

I should have used my beholder on lemon, we could have eliminated Maria

[Dunnstral]

Funny thought i had after i died?
If bell had been blown up by the vest, after we elimmed Hu tao, that's 2 deaths, Hu Tao wouldnt have been able to fire either. Either that or Bell survives i guess.

Well I pondered the same thing and the mod said that the vest would resolve in twilight. So presumably it would all work

[Dunnstral]

The reason I didn't put much emphasis on the "hard mechanical cc" between MariaR and Ircher is that I've been burned from assuming things like this before, and often what people assume is a cc is that both players are just town and something else happened. In this game MariaR was super open with their claim and so was Ircher, neither was in response to pressure and both could have kept quiet. For that reason it felt like something else had happened.

[Dunnstral]

Basically if it's too good to be true, it probably is.