Shell Game (Night 4)

[morph the cat]

Oblivion, I have a question for you. How do you feel about how your interrogation of Firebagel [didn't] resolve? How are you reading her?

[morph the cat]

For me, Marci, Hermit Crab and Luke are the top three townreads.

Marci because she was so visibly uncomfortable and confused by her role/neighborhood and very suspicious of the hood until things began to click for her both within the hood and externally, in the game thread. I could see the gears turning (and grinding) in her posts. Everything about the way she revealed what was going on just built onto that foundation in a very natural and unstructured way. I also think that scum Marci would want to give us much more of a wide berth than she has.

Hermit Crab as a hidden hydra wouldn't go out of their way to support us as they have. There would be no need and we wouldn't think twice about a more cautious approach from an unknown quantity. And we're enough of a threat as scum that it would be a no-brainer to wait and see what town actually makes of us this game. There's also an incredible amount of mindmeld going on with Hermit Crab which I believe doesn't happen this way if they're scum.

Luke as town has a POV (that I don't want to discuss in detail because it's filed under competitive advantage) that we feel confident in reading when we see it. I interacted with him and pushed back at him long enough for us both to feel confident about that POV being present.

If I were pushing outside Marci's neighborhood, I'd be voting Spiffeh at the moment for this post. We discussed whether to vote in the dethy or outside of it before putting our Klick vote down. The deciding factor was the dethy players' preferences for cleaning their hood.

Sync Achieved indeed.

What are your thoughts on Dunnstraal?

I think Dunnstral's been scumhunting and pushing people pretty hard once there was more to sink his teeth into. My read had gone leantown before then but his reaction to Spiffeh re ActionDan made a pretty big positive impression.

Really? It felt quite the opposite. The reason it asked is because you earmarked Spiffeh for scum and from its current engagements with Spiffeh, it has an internal note to flip Dunnstraal if Spiffeh is scum.

I've seen players come to that kind of perspective on two players pretty often, when I'm not playing on that level at that point. I think it's a difference in how I form reads. Neuterhalf and I are in agreement on Dunn for now, so I'm probably not looking to go there next if Spiffeh flips scum.

[morph the cat]

Oblivion, I have a question for you. How do you feel about how your interrogation of Firebagel [didn't] resolve? How are you reading her?

It did actually answer this when it returned to poke at Spiffeh. It isn't able to 100% lock it down yet, but for us, we are unwilling to kill Bagel for the moment. It thinks the slot is town. It thinks if that slot is scum it would have to have been coached to do what it did, and it has a lock on the current mental model. It won't expect that coaching to last the whole game, and so.... it expects to be able to generate a 100% lock down on it within 2 game days. So it won't kill them today and it will be able to affirm or discard its current townread on that slot by tomorrow, it thinks. It feels relatively confident.

My thought at the time of your interactions was "awfully cheeky if scum", hence mild townlean. I wasn't sure if you were "done for now", though. Now I am.

[morph the cat]

For me, Marci, Hermit Crab and Luke are the top three townreads.

Marci because she was so visibly uncomfortable and confused by her role/neighborhood and very suspicious of the hood until things began to click for her both within the hood and externally, in the game thread. I could see the gears turning (and grinding) in her posts. Everything about the way she revealed what was going on just built onto that foundation in a very natural and unstructured way. I also think that scum Marci would want to give us much more of a wide berth than she has.

Hermit Crab as a hidden hydra wouldn't go out of their way to support us as they have. There would be no need and we wouldn't think twice about a more cautious approach from an unknown quantity. And we're enough of a threat as scum that it would be a no-brainer to wait and see what town actually makes of us this game. There's also an incredible amount of mindmeld going on with Hermit Crab which I believe doesn't happen this way if they're scum.

Luke as town has a POV (that I don't want to discuss in detail because it's filed under competitive advantage) that we feel confident in reading when we see it. I interacted with him and pushed back at him long enough for us both to feel confident about that POV being present.

If I were pushing outside Marci's neighborhood, I'd be voting Spiffeh at the moment for this post. We discussed whether to vote in the dethy or outside of it before putting our Klick vote down. The deciding factor was the dethy players' preferences for cleaning their hood.

Sync Achieved indeed.

What are your thoughts on Dunnstraal?

I think Dunnstral's been scumhunting and pushing people pretty hard once there was more to sink his teeth into. My read had gone leantown before then but his reaction to Spiffeh re ActionDan made a pretty big positive impression.

Really? It felt quite the opposite. The reason it asked is because you earmarked Spiffeh for scum and from its current engagements with Spiffeh, it has an internal note to flip Dunnstraal if Spiffeh is scum.

I've seen players come to that kind of perspective on two players pretty often, when I'm not playing on that level at that point. I think it's a difference in how I form reads. Neuterhalf and I are in agreement on Dunn for now, so I'm probably not looking to go there next if Spiffeh flips scum.

Disappointing.

Let's discuss the 4 non marci members of the neighbourhood. Can you re-enlighten it about those names? It was STD... ugh.

Marci, Std, Klick, ActionDan, Sunflower.

I'm concerned about Sunflower too. Would very much like to conclude at least one of Klick, Sunflower are town before much longer.

We've wondered where the Jupiter head of Sunflower is. Would like to see some of his posts soonish.

[morph the cat]

i am trying to make a readslist but it is very hard and a lot of this game feels like jello. ama for like 10 mins

What is your thoughts on how the current game state looks from a voting standpoint? This question is open ended, interpet it however you like and provide that answer.

i think that people are voting the two most likely wolves in the dethyhood and also the sunflower wagon looks a lot worse than the klick one does fmpov. people will probably coalesce on one of the two soonish
i'm using this as a jumping board to post a really ?? reads list. this is without reading back too much and feeling out the Shape of the game in my mind instead

Hermit Crab (anonymous hydra)
Lukewarm
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Gypyx
PenguinPower
Oblivion
Cat Scratch Fever

Dannflor
Spiffeh
PookyTheMagicalBear
Brian Skies
Firebagel

~
SirCakez
Bingle
~

marcistar

ActionDan
Save the Dragons

Klick
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)

I'd really like to understand where your Marci read comes from, and why you have that entire hood below the no-shows.

[morph the cat]

i'm listing the neighborhood independently from my main reads it's not that they're all that low lol

Can you give a sense of where they slot in overall?

[morph the cat]

i'm listing the neighborhood independently from my main reads it's not that they're all that low lol

Can you give a sense of where they slot in overall?

- having the context of why marci's been talking about being afraid this game and worried and etc makes more sense to me and i dont think she would handle it this way if she were a wolf or idek if she would be able
- actiondan isnt wolfy to me really i think back to that post where he voted marci and that just is town to me. i think he would be playing a little sloppy if he were a wolf too with how he handled the miller stuff it falls apart very easily. wolves Can Be Sloppy but... eh?
- already explained dragons
- klick and sunflower are kind of in the same place here by virtue of the other three being townier i think, dragons is contentious because of no in-thread but trusting what's going on in the neighborhood instead. going strictly off of wagon i think sunflower is the town between these two and i dont think fire plays midsummer 2 here as an opener

I meant where they'd individually fall in your overall reads list or tier list if that's how you're sorting.

Maybe I'm asking for something that isn't baked enough yet.

[morph the cat]

man im just not going to talk to the asshole half of this game

fuck ya'all

You sound so burnt out on mafia.

[morph the cat]

You sound so burnt out on mafia.

nah i was having fun chilling with people b4 the insults started flying out of nowhere this is mostly a chill pl

When you're ready to chill I have some stuff to go over. It can wait for now.

[morph the cat]

hey pooky, whats ur opinion on actiondan

What's yours?

[morph the cat]

hey pooky, whats ur opinion on actiondan

What's yours?

I thought you knew everything!

Only what you show me.

[morph the cat]

hey pooky, whats ur opinion on actiondan

What's yours?

I thought you knew everything!

Only what you show me.

Thats a weak superpower

You're voting him. Apparently based on the miller thing. Is there more?

[morph the cat]

You shoulda seen the other shitty superpower pill choices...

[morph the cat]

It would rather resolve this bullshit here and now and move the fuck on and not have to stretch this out over the course of a game and you doing things PAST this means it will have to come back and read this shit to try and sort you so for the LOVE of god.

I'm leaving for a few hours, starting now.

[morph the cat]

I may have skipped some of Pooky v Oblivion, but otherwise have caught up.

\o/

Thoughts?

[morph the cat]

I may have skipped some of Pooky v Oblivion, but otherwise have caught up.

\o/

Thoughts?

I suppose I'll start with Dethy hood since that is the popular topic so far.

If there were a consensus scumread out of that hood, then I'd be amenable to the idea of eliminating there. However, only some of the players (Marci, Klick, Sunflower) from that hood are really giving much outside of their hood for the rest of us to generate a read on them. STD and Dan haven't really given much. Granted, it's still early and this can change.

Of the five in the hood, I'd probably only have Marci outside my would-lynch pile. And I've generally felt Sunflower and Klick to be slightly more towny than STD and Dan. But this is just based on what I can see in thread and not 'he-said-she-said' from the neighborhood.

I don't think it would be a bad thing to eliminate outside of the Dethy hood if there isn't a consensus elimination. If it's the Dethy I'm thinking of, then eliminating potential cops in the hood without getting at least a result from them would make deciphering sanities more difficult later. And it would force the scumteam to focus down that hood for us.

I disagree with Dan and think a miller fits with a Dethy neighborhood. Unless he just thinks it doesn't fit the overall theme. And I've generally liked CSF's play today.

What do you think about the other hood?

And what are your thoughts about players not in the hoods?

A lot has happened that you weren't around to react to. I feel like the thread could really use some more content from you.

[morph the cat]

I'm going to be honest, I spent most of today just trying to catch up that I don't remember a lot that's happened outside of the Dethy hood. From what I do remember:

The other hood hasn't claimed anything of note mechanically. Looking back, that hood is [Spiffeh, Dunn, Crab, Bingle, Cakez, Firepup]. I think Spiffeh, Dunn, and Crab are town. Two of these players haven't even posted yet. Firepup seems busy/sick.

Outside of the hood, I have liked Shellos and Luke. I'm not a fan of Oblivion, but I think that has more to do with Pooky vs. Oblivion than anything else gameplay-related.

And your thought's on Pooky?

[morph the cat]

Pooky is pretty null for me. He's mostly been pretty jokey and hasn't done anything that I would consider townish that I can remember.

Could you expand on your Spiffeh townread?

[morph the cat]

Why hasn't Jupiter posted in the game thread?

[morph the cat]

- after that point we're talking pretty openly. i think that the way std's thought process visibly developed in the hood looks really towny and is very well-faked if mafia. i think looking back at it again now, marci's is also pretty towny. AD i am like a little wary that his signaling to me/townreading to me was strange given his apparent mindset that scum would also be informed. klick and AD are the most suspicious to me,

probably klick more at this point

Also, why is Klick the most suspicious to you?

[morph the cat]

klick has just felt kinda positional play in response to all of this and is just not approaching things in the way i tend to expect him to solve. i think he tends to feel really pretty measured and reasonable and confident in his ability to read people and here he feels put on the back foot and the reads don't feel like they're coming naturally

Have you played with scum-Klick before?

[morph the cat]

as for main thread, crab and oblivion probably the biggest winners from this for me. both feel solidly town

dunnstral also i think felt pretty towny to me in his reactions to all this

pooky feels pretty on his own and i think the frustration over wasting thread space feels towny. a lot of the stuff with oblivion i think is pretty nai although i think sitting down and trying to sort things out was pro-town

spiffeh i think has been scummy

morph im not really at all sold on but if they're right on spiffeh then they're probably town i guess idk

luke i don't think has been exceptionally towny but i think it feels like he is trying to figure things out and approaching with curiosity rather than wanting to control things and that's enough for a townlean

firebringer posts have made very little effect on me and im not sure what that means for his alignment

Tell us more.

[morph the cat]

morph im not really at all sold on but if they're right on spiffeh then they're probably town i guess idk

So you mind meld with our spiffeh take, but we're town only if it's a correct take? Nothing else coming from our slot has been indicative one direction or the other?

[morph the cat]

morph you know what would really annoy me

is if this game wasnt a dethy and it was just 5 random sanity town cops thrown in a hood and you just decided it was a dethy and the real shell game was the scum conning us into thinking this is a dethy and its not really a dethy

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84557

cuz like im looking back at fakegod's dethy and its pretty explicitly stated that its a dethy but here we don't actually have an explicit statement that we're playing dethy.

and if the entire scum team is laughing at you doing this and we're going down this rabbit hole I'm gonna be so annoyed.

Based upon summary of the hood by sunflower, they've all declared it as such.

[morph the cat]

also we didn't decide it's a dethy we were like "hey this is kinda like dethy". which. it isn't dethy. can we stop pretending it's dethy im so tired

I'm kind of confused. do you not think there's 1 scum in the hood anymore?

i didn't ever think it was a for sure thing. i said it was the most elegant. but i am not particularly willing to take it for granted that we can make assumptions here

What do you think Klick?

I think we are intended to assume the Dethy situation

...though literally right this second it has occurred to me that the 'Shell Game' could be quite literal within the context of the Dethy, and there is no shell

I don't think marci, ActionDan, or STD are scum

The process of figuring out sanities with a liar in the mix has a shell game aspect to it. And I think that aspect is compounded by the cop abilities being inventions (If I interpreted all that correctly).

I thought (and still think) that calling a game with a dethy-like component (and another large hood that we know relatively little about so far) a shell game makes sense.

I'm still kinda gnawing on what grpscum in the hood could mean as opposed to a traitor, though I initially thought that would be way overpowered.

[morph the cat]

1. Morph since you have some experience, how long would it take to figure out reliabilites practically using the miller claim as calibration given the circumstances?

Flips factor in. Calibrating together once on someone who dies soonish gives the array of results Calibrating a second time on someone the group agrees is not the same alignment as the first calibration has a *chance* of pinpointing the naive and paranoid results if that player also flips soonish.

BUT, in this scenario where the abilities are inventions means that your hood can't reliably choose the ultimate target. And there's no guarantee you'd send inventions to only town.

To make calibration paramount, I think the best thing would be for the target choice to be a consensus decision including players who aren't in your hood. Whoever you send the inventions to would have to explain themselves if the choose to go against consensus in how they use their inventions.

Another big factor is when the inventions can be used, same night received, or later.

[morph the cat]

i think that town!klick is capable of finding scum!me. he did it very well recently

i think regardless of alignment he knows that he doesn't have reason to think im scum here

the difference is that i think if he's town he would also know that if we're both town there's a decent chance we can find each other. the fact that he doesn't have reason to think im scum would make him doubt. im on the other side here, not fully confident that klick is scum, and that makes me question AD and marci

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

this is what i mean by calling the play positional. i think that those reads became solidified out of necessity and not out of justified reason. and i don't think that's how town!klick plays

elaborate?

Also, Klick/Marci/Dan/STD do you agree with sunflower's description of your hood's activities last night?

There is a third hood

How so?

i think that town!klick is capable of finding scum!me. he did it very well recently

i think regardless of alignment he knows that he doesn't have reason to think im scum here

the difference is that i think if he's town he would also know that if we're both town there's a decent chance we can find each other. the fact that he doesn't have reason to think im scum would make him doubt. im on the other side here, not fully confident that klick is scum, and that makes me question AD and marci

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

this is what i mean by calling the play positional. i think that those reads became solidified out of necessity and not out of justified reason. and i don't think that's how town!klick plays

The thing I find most concerning about you personally is that your descriptions of my play don't match up with how I think of my own play at all.

Like the thing just now about going from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence on marci and STD (not ActionDan, I don’t think that matches my progression there?). I... do stuff like that all the time? When I have a reason to think someone is town, I tend towards hard-committal. I think that's one of my defining traits as a player.

My concern is that you're taking uncharitable interpretations of my actions, because pushing me early and getting me out of the way is exactly how I think scum!you would want to approach this situation.

But I am having doubts about you currently, mostly stemming from thinking 0-scum is kind of plausible

How do you reconcile this with Ceph's warning about scum getting an advantage at some point down the line if they're still in the hood at that point.

I am somewhat intrigued by the idea of players getting swapped in/out of that hood (either hood, really).

[morph the cat]

What am I missing on Pooky and Firebringer?

They are upstanding animal police detectives who would never do this town wrong.

Some real content would be quite nice about now.

[morph the cat]

invention is just a 1-shot, we target at night, so they would receive it at end of night, so they'd have to use it the next night

I'm confused. The hood has cops of unknown sanities (no shot limit?) AND inventions? Does each hood member have an invention one-shot? One one-shot you share and have to agree on? Something else?

[morph the cat]

elaborate?

be more specific

Mostly this part:

the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick

[morph the cat]

invention is just a 1-shot, we target at night, so they would receive it at end of night, so they'd have to use it the next night

I'm confused. The hood has cops of unknown sanities (no shot limit?) AND inventions? Does each hood member have an invention one-shot? One one-shot you share and have to agree on? Something else?

?

Not sure what you're asking?

[morph the cat]

it's been unexplicitly said at this point multiple times and i think it's frankly dumb to not just make it clear so btw, we aren't straight up cops, we are inventors who give out cop shots of unknown sanity

so it's like one step removed from dethy i guess idk

That's what I thought, but your comment I responded to could have meant something else. Inventions usually are one-shots for the recipients.

Anyway, I think this requote clears up my confusion.

[morph the cat]

I'm just question mark pinging that post

the confusion is somewhat unbelievable to me

welcome to feryland. I vastly prefer clarifications over assumptions.

[morph the cat]

Maybe there’s a mechanic where we play two separate games all at once to get a vanilla cop.

heh.

Have you talked about your reads of your hoodmates? Are you thinking about the game in those terms? possible scum in Marci's hood, your hood, and the leftovers?

Tangentially I think the one post of Brian's that I've actually liked was 1223.

[morph the cat]

Idk, not feeling very confident in who is scum in the hood ATM

I liked Spiffeh's push here:

VOTE: Brian Skies

Does this represent a change of your Oblivion read? If so, elaborate?

[morph the cat]

Unofficial VC. No implied or expressed warranty of accuracy. Void where prohibited, YMMV

Klick 6 (morph, Hermit, Pooky, Dunnstral, PenguinPower, Dannflor)
ActionDan 2 (Lukewarm, Firebringer)
Brian Skies 2 (Spiffeh, CatScratchFever)
Sunflower 1 (Klick)
Pooky 1 (Firebagel)
marcistar 1 (ActionDan)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)
morph 1 (STD)

Not voting (Brian Skies, Oblivion, Shello, SirCakez, Bingle, marcistar, Sunflower)

It's interesting to see the Sunflower wagon dissipate so much. I know from observation that fireisredsir can churn out decent content as scum so I'm not terribly mollified by his posts about the hood. His comments about his Klick read don't do much for me. I'm the head who feels it's about 50-50 regarding which of them is scum.

[morph the cat]

Maybe there’s a mechanic where we play two separate games all at once to get a vanilla cop.

heh.

Have you talked about your reads of your hoodmates? Are you thinking about the game in those terms? possible scum in Marci's hood, your hood, and the leftovers?

Tangentially I think the one post of Brian's that I've actually liked was 1223.

I feel like you know the answer to that question, but given we have some of our hood who have yet to post ANYWHERE it’s a bit tricky to accurately forecast our reads. All I hve is the solace that PP promised me Bingle is town.

Kinda. With Bingle showing up in the game thread, I wondered if he surfaced in the hood, too.

[morph the cat]

My pooky read strengthened last night. He hasn't broken in to 2nd tier town, but he's close.

Some of the stuff he said about my hydra was ~interesting~, and not entirely how I perceive his reads of me, in or out of morph.

Neuterhalf was feeling sick last night. I'll assume I'm playing solo for now, but probably not for long. Everything posted since 1235 is spayhalf.

[morph the cat]

Unvote:

[morph the cat]

My unvote is purely based on Klick's most recent post. I was a little surpised to see the move to STD happening in pedit. I don't ~hate~ that, and I'd definitely like to see more of STD in this thread, where I can form a first hand read.

[morph the cat]

One thing I saw mentioned that I wish to correct from the sickbed:

We may name our town tiers really silly things like "show me the guilty or fuck off" but in reality, we are ALWAYS willing to hear a case out, so don't cite us for reasons not to do that. If you think Marci is scum then case her and we'll evaluate it. Everyone can be wrong, and even if we might disagree now, we may see something you found and 180. Or heck, we might still disagree but find your efforts useful in sorting elsewhere.

[morph the cat]

i don't even think 2 wolves in the dethy is out of the question

i really think it makes sense for people to be swapping around neighborhoods this game so i think the starting number of scum in any neighborhood probably can't be accurately guessed but im not mech brained!!

Do you think people can be swapped into both hoods, or just one? Because the second one seems themed around inventors and I think it would be strange if players can be swapped in and out of that one.

It's one hood with cop-inventions to give out.

I feel like this could be a towntell. :/

[morph the cat]

Where did I get heat for my "scum read" on you? Hermit Crab poked at me about it in the hood but it wasn't the crux of any scum reads on me from what I recall.

I think it was just hood talk.

I don't remember anyone pushing u in main thread

. And honestly most of whats been going on with you in mainhood has not been bringing attention to me so thats why i said u being scum would be interesting because of lack of engagement (at least from my memory of u so far). I do want to sort u earlier though, i think ur post here is first one i go well that sounds town spiffeh. But i might be giving u easy pass for how u framed that whole post.

That's interesting.

[morph the cat]

On one hand I feel like I need to reread this game to get a solid scum read of my own, and on the other hand I want to just wait for morph to do all the work for me and break out their super duper color coded entire player list read list

But either way, I don't currently know where I want my vote to be, and it feels stale where it is.

I'm starting with a tierlist. Got distracted because SOMEBODY moved our hydra pt to completed PTs in the last year.

[morph the cat]

Tiered list. Not ready to write a book.

This is a fferylist. Slots where neuterhalf and I have opinions and are not yet synced are noted.

{Hermit Crab, Luke}
{Marci, Oblivion, Dunn}
{CSF, YdraHydra, Bagel(?)} spayhalf has YdraHydra here, neuterhalf has them lower. Neuterhalf has Pooky in this tier.
---------------------------
{Brian Skies, ActionDan, Gypyx, Firebringer, Pooky*} Surprised Brian is in this group, but this feels right to me. neuterhalf has him lower
{Dannflor, Spiffeh} On top of other stuff in the thread, I feel like Spiffeh is reaching with his appeal for us to townread him based on mindmeld :/
{Klick, Sunflower}
------------------
Not enough content yet for a call

{STD, SirCakez, Bingle, PenguinPower*}

PenguinPower being present and voting but not poking around at all is nearly enough concern to put him in one of the two lower groups under the first line.

[morph the cat]

On one hand I feel like I need to reread this game to get a solid scum read of my own, and on the other hand I want to just wait for morph to do all the work for me and break out their super duper color coded entire player list read list

But either way, I don't currently know where I want my vote to be, and it feels stale where it is.

You that confident morph is town?

How confident are you?

[morph the cat]

Tiered list. Not ready to write a book.

This is a fferylist. Slots where neuterhalf and I have opinions and are not yet synced are noted.

{Hermit Crab, Luke}
{Marci, Oblivion, Dunn}
{CSF, YdraHydra, Bagel(?)} spayhalf has YdraHydra here, neuterhalf has them lower. Neuterhalf has Pooky in this tier.
---------------------------
{Brian Skies, ActionDan, Gypyx, Firebringer, Pooky*} Surprised Brian is in this group, but this feels right to me. neuterhalf has him lower
{Dannflor, Spiffeh} On top of other stuff in the thread, I feel like Spiffeh is reaching with his appeal for us to townread him based on mindmeld :/
{Klick, Sunflower}
------------------
Not enough content yet for a call

{STD, SirCakez, Bingle, PenguinPower*}

PenguinPower being present and voting but not poking around at all is nearly enough concern to put him in one of the two lower groups under the first line.

idk why it surprises me that you guys have klick and sunflower tiered lowest beyond the neighborhood but it does, does the hood have any bearing on this?

Only that the two are, at least in my (neuter's) mind, mutually exclusive, and that I have pretty good in-thread reasons for disliking both.

[morph the cat]

Yeah they both have stuff that makes me want to murder, but one of them is a red herring... maybe.

[morph the cat]

For some reason I thought Morph was townreading Dan. I guess I was wrong.

I think he's town, but not enough to put him above that line. Yet, anyway. Reports from the hood that I can't see for myself are not easy to weigh here.

[morph the cat]

Brian I always wanted to ask you this but is that an egg on your head

I do not know.

It's an egg shaped hair thing, yeah. It's from bakemonogatari.

[morph the cat]

For some reason I thought Morph was townreading Dan. I guess I was wrong.

I think he's town, but not enough to put him above that line. Yet, anyway. Reports from the hood that I can't see for myself are not easy to weigh here.

Is that line not the null line?

Eh. We don't really have a firm null line, those lines are just distinctive gaps for us, more than anything.

[morph the cat]

I was getting there, I'm currently eating Havarti so that's the right answer, or your taste in cheese sucks, either-or.

[morph the cat]

My taste in cheese sucks.

Sorry for your loss.

[morph the cat]

For some reason I thought Morph was townreading Dan. I guess I was wrong.

I think he's town, but not enough to put him above that line. Yet, anyway. Reports from the hood that I can't see for myself are not easy to weigh here.

Is that line not the null line?

Eh. We don't really have a firm null line, those lines are just distinctive gaps for us, more than anything.

The 8 above that line are all confident townreads at this point. strength of confidence in the tiers.

[morph the cat]

I would have guess brie.

And yes, I had brie with breakfast.

[morph the cat]

guys i have bad news

the new valorant battlepass is out

so i can no longer play properly

Please uninstall Valorant because clearly this game takes priority.

-Herr Mitt

:/

[morph the cat]

I try to avoid giving money to Riot Games for ethical reasons, sorry, this doesn't resonate with me.

[morph the cat]

I'm going to refresh tonight. I had a really stressful time last night and this morning, and some of that was due to this game, but most of that was external and me projecting that into this.

I'm finding the push on myself overwhelming. I don't particularly like or enjoy playing to expectation. I also dislike the infrequent-but-significant wagon that grows on me early D1 simply for playing the way I play amongst certain groups of players.

If you have a question that you like, really really care about getting answered, ping me and I'll give it some attention before I refresh. But what I'd like to do tonight after the kids are asleep is go through and get a clearer perspective on the game.

I think I'm quite happy with the actual reads I've developed so far, but I'm going to make an effort to be more transparent as to the reasoning behind most of my reads. Some might change with reflection. My concern is that a number of people are going to poke and prod and otherwise invalidate my attempts at showing my work, not due to its actual content or potential accuracy, but simply due to disagreements in process. I'm not interested in getting into lengthy debates about the accuracy of my opinions or process, unless the goal is genuinely to come to a shared understanding on someone's alignment.


With that out of the way, see you all in like 3ish hours maybe

Can you go into how your reads of Cat Scratch Fever, Hermit Crab, and Lukewarm formed?

[morph the cat]

guys i have bad news

the new valorant battlepass is out

so i can no longer play properly

Please uninstall Valorant because clearly this game takes priority.

-Herr Mitt

:/

To be fair, I was going to say this regardless of what game was mentioned there.

-Herr Mitt

I'm giving you a pensive gaze because you didn't reply to my question when you came back to the thread.

[morph the cat]

I'm going to refresh tonight. I had a really stressful time last night and this morning, and some of that was due to this game, but most of that was external and me projecting that into this.

I'm finding the push on myself overwhelming. I don't particularly like or enjoy playing to expectation. I also dislike the infrequent-but-significant wagon that grows on me early D1 simply for playing the way I play amongst certain groups of players.

If you have a question that you like, really really care about getting answered, ping me and I'll give it some attention before I refresh. But what I'd like to do tonight after the kids are asleep is go through and get a clearer perspective on the game.

I think I'm quite happy with the actual reads I've developed so far, but I'm going to make an effort to be more transparent as to the reasoning behind most of my reads. Some might change with reflection. My concern is that a number of people are going to poke and prod and otherwise invalidate my attempts at showing my work, not due to its actual content or potential accuracy, but simply due to disagreements in process. I'm not interested in getting into lengthy debates about the accuracy of my opinions or process, unless the goal is genuinely to come to a shared understanding on someone's alignment.


With that out of the way, see you all in like 3ish hours maybe

Can you go into how your reads of Cat Scratch Fever, Hermit Crab, and Lukewarm formed?

How they formed? I can try
I feel like I've already sufficiently done this for CSF. CSF was a person of interest because I didn't feel like she came very close to clearing the level of towniness that she usually has as town. I've kinda liked some of her recent posts I think. But CSF has a pretty clear range

How did you feel initially about CSF's miller claim? How did you feel about Pooky's ascetic claim?

Hermit Crab seemed a bit high potential for scum but then started engaging with the main events and became obvtown

high potential? Was there a post of Hermit Crab's that flipped your read?

I remain unconvinced that Lukewarm is doing anything aside from posturing

What did you think of the way he buttonholed me? Of our interaction?

[morph the cat]

I was scum reading action dan at the time (this read has mellowed with time), and it still did not resonate with me.

Luke, can you talk about your current reads?

[morph the cat]

Keep it in your quiver, I was putting out fires at home.

We both think you’re town, but I have been burned too many times to be fully open at the moment. It’s not my fault your bar is so high!

I felt the slightest rift forming. Of course I took notice.

[morph the cat]

Keep it in your quiver, I was putting out fires at home.

We both think you’re town, but I have been burned too many times to be fully open at the moment. It’s not my fault your bar is so high!

I felt the slightest rift forming. Of course I took notice.

My other head is keeping me honest. I need to compare your list with ours at some point.

I'm interested in the comparison. If this is going to be a POE game for me, I need to find way more solid townreads.

You mentioned our Spiffeh read not doing much for you. Where do you have him? What puts him there?

[morph the cat]

Cat dad took a double dose of NyQuil with honey and is going the fuck to sleep.

Cat mom should sit on her hands and let the normies who have lives and can't post all day catch up.

[morph the cat]

Marci is the hood named deathy or something?

uhh it has to do with our role dms!

united

inventors

association!

Marci is an innocent child

, as of this post.

Facepalm.

That explains the nuance about "more complicated than that"

Why was this?

This is a neuterhalf post, but I'll answer it. He can correct me if I have the nuance wrong.

The post explains a lot about her posting prior to that point, and also illuminates the undercurrents that had shown up among other hood members, particularly Action Dan and Sunflower. Our reaction to it was that scum-Marci wouldn't have been such an artless mess about her hoodmates and her role during the early hours of the game.

Inno child wasn't much of an exaggeration, but after seeing more from other players she's not in our top tier townreads atm.

[morph the cat]

Bingle, given you have a "legit" scumread of cabd and not much better of me, I'm curious why you're voting Marci atm.

[morph the cat]

Dunn, where are your reads overall atm?

[morph the cat]

ffery, I did homework for you.

Plz don't join the crowd of people who have not given me any indication that they even read it

I read it last night, but was on a posting embargo with Neuterhalf.

Still mulling some of it over. Will probably have questions later.

I'm sad AD replaced out.

[morph the cat]

I'm just waiting for someone to come tell me that one (or more!) of my assessments is bad, dumb, or wrong (and why!)

But no one has.

Maybe I did this to myself by using spoiler tags.

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

[morph the cat]

Almost immediately upon my renewed confidence of their Townitude they pull a 180 of their opinion on me because of my stated Townread on ActionDan, thinking I am using my “cred” to try to save him as my scumbuddy. I did not and still do not understand this line of thought and it kind of demoralized me. Further still when in ffery’s listed reads I am the lowest outside of the dethy neighborhood and ActionDan wasn’t below the null line (iirc) so their only vocalized point against me no longer seems to apply.

I'm hesitant to lower my guard with you but I do reevaluate a LOT and some of the reevaluations are gestalts. In fact your post that set both of us off was a gestalt moment. Although I'm not scumreading ActionDan, the way you defended him pinged because it felt off from every vibe I'd gotten up to that point. If you're town, I'm confident we'll get there because we usually do get there in our large games.

[morph the cat]

Also, I think you're putting too much weight on our mindmelding.

[morph the cat]

Whats a gestalt

It's where the whole of a concept, structure, etc., is way more unified than the sum of the parts. Not just greater, more meaningful, more cohesive, makes more sense.

When I have a gestalt moment in a game, it's usually because one post brings everything else a player has posted into deeper focus, OR because that one post shatters the concept I'd drawn from earlier posts and suggests something else entirely is going on.

[morph the cat]

Do you give any weight to the mix up?

I do not

I mostly read gypyx by how comfortable she is interacting with the thread and she doesn't feel nearly as comfortable from what I remember in dance game

Samsies.

[morph the cat]

I thought cabd couldnt be fooled by anyone?

JSYK this is absolute bullshit and really annoys me when people say this. I'm just as fallible as anyone else. I have LTO games, and I have Koishi games, and everything in between. My playstyle just makes the victories seem outsized.

[morph the cat]

Whats a gestalt

The dethy reveal was also a gestalt, that illuminated the play/lack of play up to that point of every member of your neighborhood.

[morph the cat]

Do you give any weight to the mix up?

I do not

I mostly read gypyx by how comfortable she is interacting with the thread and she doesn't feel nearly as comfortable from what I remember in dance game

I guess there can be some meta things that I am missing, I think that the only game I have ever played with her was touhou, which was an anon game, so dont actually have any experience in how she plays on her main.

Obviously this is YEARS ago and she has improved in leaps and bounds by then, but in Cakez' Tenet game, we literally wrote her posts for her in the scum PT because she was so nervous in a player list of big names. (Of course, that game was somewhat of an outlier given we as a scum team built an entire discord server with multiple channels and sub-groups to do all the misting that was needed for it)

That scum team was Ceph-Pooky-Gypyx-Cabd-LLD-Spiffeh, so a LOT of us that are playing now got a first person up close and personal view of her scumgame there.

[morph the cat]

This is a copy-paste from a PUBLIC PUBLISHED scum discord/PT from the finished Tenet game:

Gypyx / Qwickzz_
—
12/11/2020 2:01 PM
Oh fuck
Ok cool

Cabd
—
12/11/2020 2:02 PM
yeah this is a stacked player lsit on both sides
it's not like either side got "oops all lurkfucks"

Gypyx / Qwickzz_
—
12/11/2020 2:02 PM
I'll try to set up a strat where we talk to the other timeline with a specific color, do y'all think this will give me townpoints?

Oh fuck, now there's pressure

Cabd
—
12/11/2020 2:03 PM
i mean, i do the best under pressure

cephy
—
12/11/2020 2:03 PM
i think that's a solid idea

Gypyx / Qwickzz_
—
12/11/2020 2:03 PM
I completely crumble under pressure

[morph the cat]

Just so folks who weren't there for Tenet have a sense of the meta we're talking about.

[morph the cat]

(FWIW I don't think this is entirely true of her anymore as a player to the extent at which it was true then.)

[morph the cat]

I'm sorry but I can't help but think of these dueling fire wagons as the Sandra firemaking incident:

[morph the cat]

(The mod will give me a special bonus oneshot dayvig for making a survivor reference that makes him laugh, I am told, no takesbacksies) ./s

[morph the cat]

Spoiler: Doing Pooky Homework for him

Hello gamers

VOTE: spiffeh

this is not RVS vote

I'd be curious as to why people are townreading spiffeh if anyone is

I'd be curious as to why people are townreading spiffeh if anyone is

You might have more luck if you explain why you’re NOT Town reading me and seeing how people respond vs. calling me scum with no explanation and expecting people to feel the same way!

I'd rather die than scumcase someone after the disaster that have been my reads lately

it's also more of me not seeing it so like, i wanna know, not engaging in a battle to the death with u

I'd be curious as to why people are townreading spiffeh if anyone is

You might have more luck if you explain why you’re NOT Town reading me and seeing how people respond vs. calling me scum with no explanation and expecting people to feel the same way!

I'd rather die than scumcase someone after the disaster that have been my reads lately

it's also more of me not seeing it so like, i wanna know, not engaging in a battle to the death with u

I am not looking to get into a battle to the death. I don't find your hesitance to townread me all that surprising given our recent history, and I actually think certain players have given me a free pass this game that I haven't earned (which I will address at some point), since nothing I've really done has been outside of my scum range imo

I do take issue with your initial (seemingly) confident scum read on me crumbling immediately upon calling you out and asking you to elaborate.

I'd love to rekindle what we had in Kemusan if you're Town here, so a good first step would be to explain why you're scum reading me, or actually doing something about it!

Still curious about your explanation for scum reading me if you could give that.

You'll find that you are no longer alone in those sentiments if that makes you feel better!

Well, to put it in a few words my reads lately haven't been stellar, so i kinda lacked the confidence to push through and assert my read

haven't read your recent posts but basically this game, you feel like you're trying to reproduce your town style instead of actually being town?

Spoiler:

Hi everyone, I am undisputedly Town and any notions to the contrary will not be tolerated!!!

Also, the scum team is Firebringer, PookyTheMagicalBear, Klick, Sunflower, and Lukewarm

VOTE: Sunflower

Ok the site is too laggy for me to keep refreshing the thread so I will instead devote my time to casing someone on page 6!

I have similar concerns about fireisredsir.

*WE* have concerns, simultaneously and independently!


Fire seems to have taken the "Jupiter in a scum slot fluffyness" and made it a part of himself right now. And I don't like it one little itty bitty bit.

Grrrrrrr.

i was fluffier entering kemusan which you both saw so this is an interesting take

What has snagged your attention so far?

actiondan is interesting to me. feel safe leaning town for now i think although scum is possible

pooky a little towny

dunn a little towny although his willingness to elaborate so much on reads already was quite surprising to me. i don't think it's scummy though, just surprising

y'all i think feel eager to dig into things which is probably a good enough sign for now that id rather let you do that, although i think the point on me is one that feels misapplied

if i were to put a bet on a scum rn i think id guess STD. that's based on almost nothing however id still take the pookybucks

firebagel feels likely to be readable given time so not worried there rn

I don't like either of the above from Sunflower

The first deflects morph's (imo valid) point about their fluffiness by mentioning one game where they were fluffy early on as town. By mentioning this, it demonstrates that they are aware of their town meta and therefore should have no problem replicating it, so I'm not sure the purpose of even saying this other than to try to get morph off their back.

The second post feels like scum artificially inflating the word count to look like they have substantial thoughts, idk how to really articulate it but it feels insecure to me. The ActionDan read is basically "I think town but he could be scum" which is very non-committal, so what's the point of including it in the first place? The comments about morph and STD follow this same pattern, though less explicitly. It feels like they felt the need to pad their response to morph to make it look like they were thinking about the game critically and it resulted into a bunch of "reads" that don't actually tell me anything.

These, along with their not so stellar (but not quite irredeemable!) early posts makes me happy with my vote on them.

@Sunflower:
1. What makes morph and Dunn's takes about your fluffiness "interesting" and how does this inform your read on them?
2. Can you go into more detail on the ActionDan read?

Mostly vibes

You came into the game engaging heavily and asking questions in a way that felt pro-town

And while I don't necessarily agree with some of your conclusions, I believe that you believe the things you are saying

Hi everyone, I am undisputedly Town and any notions to the contrary will not be tolerated!!!

Hi Gypyx I think you may have missed this post? Super embarrassing for you but I'm willing to overlook it if you sheep me onto Sunflower

I’m so proud of that Eternity Larva post you quoted, probably my towniest post in that game lol

That kinda was all that

especially it's a bit metagamey but in kemusan i mentionned TR'ing you for saying you got a town PM, and the way you're doing it here feels very deliberate

[morph the cat]

And SirBakez can solve the shit out of this game

I quoted tenet it can't be all bad!

[morph the cat]

Did they make an oppo research channel in the scum discord again?

[morph the cat]

For those of you keeping track at home, ffery and I knew it was notsci long time ago, but I (neuter) got there first.

We even signaled to them about blue hair!

[morph the cat]

Also crab your hair is very blue but I'm sure you bleed very green.

[morph the cat]

He uh... left, didn't he?

[morph the cat]

Yeah I didn't glean the meaning of that post saying it was notsci either

I'm only vaguely aware of the existence of notsci though so that's kinda to be expected

it was a signal specifically to notsci.

[morph the cat]

what is a 'cabal person'

?

You could ask ydra!

it's vaguely synonymous with "wine club"

[morph the cat]

what is a 'cabal person'

?

A citizen of the "Shadow Cabal", a tounge-in-cheek-ly named discord server that has a lot of the folks in this game.

Founded by both heads of morph, but quite a few others in it. Including the game's mod.

[morph the cat]

Also Ydra is literally a member lmfao, Shello.

[morph the cat]

MINE

[morph the cat]

I have a bit of concern that it took Cakez 12 minutes to respond to the pooky's raised eyebrow.

[morph the cat]

Yeah the real winner here is Pooky and the shitposts we made along the way.

[morph the cat]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

[morph the cat]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

That famous DGB quote applies.

[morph the cat]

i'm not even sure cakez is scum but watching cabd dunk on him is always worth the price of admission esp when he's high

spayhalf erasure

[morph the cat]

The amount of time it takes to re-read the past few pages and figure out how you would have known, vs the amount of time you can instantly reply with how you knew.

Although, I am having like weird de ja vu of ffery telling me that I took too long to answer a question once before.

That's because I notice pregnant pauses.

I think that might have been day 1 of Isekai involving you and unwnd.

[morph the cat]

Also if Cakez is scum Dunn is also cleared because he could clearly tell for a while too

Has Dunn signaled that to you?

[morph the cat]

You’d also think cakeboy would at least try to read the hood which has way less volume than the game thread and people to sort

Hm.

Reminds me, has Bingle done anything in the hood? He said it was boring. Do you agree?

[morph the cat]

ah. noted

[morph the cat]

gotta say, morphsync is amazing.

[morph the cat]

I was scum reading action dan at the time (this read has mellowed with time), and it still did not resonate with me.

Luke, can you talk about your current reads?

This prompted me to do start doing isos, but I am not getting through them today. So far I got Actiondan -> Gypyx -> Gypyx -> Spiff, but that is probably all Im getting to tonight.

Spoiler: Actiondan

Reading actiondan's iso actually left me leaning town, which is not exactly what I expected going in.

I think that his suspicion on Marci actually makes a little more sense now, knowing what we know about the hood, and because I saw that he did answer my question and has never played with her. I also feel like this

This kind of player is anathema to me. She projects an aura of incompetentance when I dont think she really is and injects her posts with being LOUD

recontexualizes this abit more

At first glance this worry from Maristar looks planned and manufactured. And with the goodfellas award I am discarding this as an oversensitive townie

And with that recontextualization. I buy it more, and its a nice consistency point.

I also think that his insistence that a miller absolutely does not make any sense in the setup is the thing that really said town to me. It rings as a True Thought to me.

In general, I think that because of ActionDan's economy of posting, players who don't know him well or haven't seen his play from a position of mod omniscience aren't aware of just how much he thinks through game design from the lens of his own abillities. The surface waves of all that thought (which Marci thinks are scum-indicative) are part of the reason that I've townleaned him. To move him above the line in my reads, I needed to see more, but not a lot more.

Spoiler: gypyx

Gypyx - Looking back, seeing them mess up the hood-scum reward in 344 feels like a townslip.

I don't see how scum legitimately see a statement that scum get a reward for being in the hood, and mixes that up with town getting a reward for killing scum in the hood.

I did not actually have a lot of other alignment thoughts about them across their whole iso, but I really liked that thought.

I don't feel nearly as strongly about that post as you do. I thought I had called out a possible Gypyx townslip, but it's not in my iso. Just two reluctant call outs of players I'm not townreading.

Spoiler: firebagel

Firebagel - Looking back, I actually hate 106.

283feels like the kind of easy thing scum look for to poke at, and does not even come with a alignment comment on Spiff. Just poking at word choice.

Something about 349 feels fake to me.

I also feel like her interactions with the dethy reveal 993, 1016, 1036 felt like posts of an outside observer, rather then someone whose wincon necessitates needing in figuring things out.

(On the townie side, I did like their town read on Oblivion in 282).

My main impression of Firebagel, besides liking their cheekiness, is that in this playerlist they give me LHF feels. I have an alt guess, but I haven't actually played a game with the player I'm thinking of so I'm not putting much stock in it, other than to note that if I'm right I wouldn't can that player LHF.

Spoiler: Spiff

Spiff - I like his page 6sunflower case. I also found it townie that he quoted it to bring it to page top. Like a lot.

I also kinda liked the instead hood claim after Marci's hood claim.

There is something about 898 that I find townie.

I also like that when Spiff looked back at his high posting, there is both a backtrack on his claim against me and a double down on his take about actiondan. Like he established he was not posting at 100%, and was looking back, but chose to double down on the one that was actually making people suspect him. It further helps that when I was looking back at actiondan's iso,I thought the same thing.

And I liked his willingness to instant read drop on klick with 1404.

Spiffeh has a bar to clear with both heads. One read has softened a little, the other hasn't. And knowing my tendencies to look really hard for town motivation, I'm happy to have Cabd keeping me vigilant.

So that is a town lean for Actiondan, Gypyx, and Spiff -- and a scum read for firebagel.

VOTE: firebagel

I started to list out my full town reads, and realized I might have too many. >.<

Before starting these isos, I was at:

Marci, Crab
morph, oblivion
CSF, Pooky, Ydra,

All as town of varying strengths, so adding Actiondan, Gypyx, and Spiff feels like too many. But that is not a problem that I will be able to address tonight.

My pre-iso concerns were

actiondan

, klick, sunflower, but very little confidence in any of them. I do feel like I need to look back at Klick and Sunflower's exchange from earlier, it struck me as an exchange I should be able to discern alignment from, but did not give up its secrets on the first pass.

I need more content from Klick.

I know from modding the Dream game and backup modding Prism's Invictus game that fireisredsir can generate a LOT of surface-town content as scum. It's possibly unfair, but it's where I'm at.

[morph the cat]

gotta say, morphsync is amazing.

Luke, I posted this because one of the posts from this game you quoted re me noticing time lapses is a neuterhalf post.

[morph the cat]

Is firebagel an alt? I thought someone said they had experience with them earlier in the game

...47 posts? she's an alt.

[morph the cat]

I was assuming offsite.

I wasn't. I don't think there's much value in nailing it down, though.

[morph the cat]

gotta say, morphsync is amazing.

Luke, I posted this because one of the posts from this game you quoted re me noticing time lapses is a neuterhalf post.

For the record, I knew that was a cabd post

I actually wrote 2048 out with a "you" that I then replaced with "ffery" because I realized I was responding to cabd.

But the similarity is striking lol

For absolutely no good reason, I looked up a game I remembered drawing some conclusions from timestamps. It's a different sort of take from Isekai and and this game. If I think really hard about it there are probably other examples scattered here and across the internet.

My first post is 242 not 245 you said a blatant lie. I was attempting to see if you would realize your mistake and what you would do/say.

I'm still confused. Where is the lie?

I looked at the timestamp on the post where the mod introduced you. I looked at the timestamp of your first post and I looked at the timestamp of your reads post. From your first post to your reads post was a little less than an hour. Between the mod post and the reads post was a little more than an hour.

Do I fail at math or something?

[morph the cat]

idk i still think shell game means that there's a power to swap people in and out of the hoods

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

I'm getting a scum with TMI vibe from this.

And there's really nothing in their ISO that gives me unequivocal townvibes. I was looking back fireisred's posts about her neighbors and it struck me that she's been suspicious of/shaded every one of them over the last nearly 3 days.

vote: Sunflower

[morph the cat]

My main impression of Firebagel, besides liking their cheekiness, is that in this playerlist they give me LHF feels. I have an alt guess, but I haven't actually played a game with the player I'm thinking of so I'm not putting much stock in it, other than to note that if I'm right I wouldn't can that player LHF

What resulted in bagel getting above the line in your reads list?

Her interaction with Oblivion mostly. It's one example of her not making adjustments from pushback/scumreads.

I was not townreading her before the Oblivion interaction.

If this were a smaller player list, seeing players I'm not townreading jumping on her wagon once it started would be giving me a nasty case of hives. Even with the player list size, I'm not happy about specifically how that wagon has grown.

[morph the cat]

idk i still think shell game means that there's a power to swap people in and out of the hoods

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

I'm getting a scum with TMI vibe from this.

And there's really nothing in their ISO that gives me unequivocal townvibes. I was looking back fireisred's posts about her neighbors and it struck me that she's been suspicious of/shaded every one of them over the last nearly 3 days.

vote: Sunflower

Hasn't Dannflor said the same thing multiple times?

~ skitter

And?

[morph the cat]

i hope theres 0 wolves in the hood i think it would be the funniest choice

i think that by flavor of this game, the hood members can probably switch around

morph, It does not seem like Sunflower was the first person to bring up that possibility

Hmm.

[morph the cat]

that's a surprising thing for you to miss lol

it's been talked about a decent amount and it's not a particularly novel idea regardless

Not really. I haven't looked too hard at Gypyx yet because it's still a short iso.

You, I've been looking at and thinking about since shortly after the game started.

[morph the cat]

also i just have this nagging feeling that one of the people pushing action dan for the timeline inconsistency of the cop/miller thing is scum so why not firebringer

Wasn't that only me and Firebringer? And I admitted that it wasn't a smoking gun.

I thought someone else was pushing it too, idk it just seems like the type of very logic-based argument that scum tend to pursue because it looks like a freebie, except I think that argument fits your MO as town and doesn’t fit Firebringer’s so much

We didn't push it as scummy, but we did point out that the most recent previous dethy game at MS had a miller(s).

[morph the cat]

I don't think everyone there is mafia, that is just where I would look, and the top half is where I would not look, except for a few names.

I don't think Klick and Sunflower are both mafia, also.

I agree with this. And I think Sunflower is more likely scum.

[morph the cat]

At least 4 people have said something along those lines, why are you calling out sunflower for it in particular

Because sunflower is the one scumread I've formed so far that hasn't weakened. You can brush off my vote of them all you like. The only thing that will change my read is more data from/about Sunflower.

[morph the cat]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

[morph the cat]

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

[morph the cat]

We talked about voting there right after the whateveritwas happened.

I'm happy where I'm voting.

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

[morph the cat]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

OK, that makes more sense. Does clearing that confusion affect how you view the wagon? (which I am currently on as well because )

I think your wagon is misguided.

What do you think of your wagon (however it's currently configured, since it has changed).

I still feel meh about the percentage of non-townreads on Firebringer's wagon despite not being particularly impressed with him so far. There's usually some substance to go with the memes IME.

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

That was more of a I had a gut "lmao he just scum claimed" reaction, but then I was instantly tempering that reaction based off of the de ja vu feeling.

But thinking on it more, I landed back on it being scum indicative.

Regardless of his alignment, I think Sir Baked, as dubbed by neuterhalf, had an oshit moment and decided to leave it for soberCakez to clean up. Overall I think it was scum indicative.

[morph the cat]

1) the two situations are not alike at all. that was a mechanical counterclaim. this is there's probably a scum in this group of 5 and two people in it suspect each other

2) it implies that i wouldn't know what a 1v1 looks like if i hadn't just seen one which is vaguely insulting lol

They're extremely alike, in that the scum player in a deAAAthy is already planning for a 1v1 if/when the sorting eventually occurs or the deathy is narrowed down, and is unable to endgame. In the dream game, your team had to prepare for a 1v1 lest too many people be confirmed town, and so chose to take the initiative. It's plenty alike.

2: Your face wouldn't know a 1v1. No, but seriously, that's not my implication, moreso as "You just got to see needing to prep for a 1v1, so you're more likely to have that recent memory wierghin on you when seeing the deAAAthy as scum".

[morph the cat]

Dunn I always am back and forth on, I believe someone phrased it as he is easiest to read with a moderate amount of experience with him. Gun to my head, I think he’s town. I think his interactions with Oblivion felt town, alongside general good solvey feels.

I think the tell is either nearly or fully reverse-engineered after this game anyways, so I'll burn it.

Extreme cheek is Dunn's towntell. A good example is in the LTO game, where he reverse-engineered Titus' code and started talking to her in it to troll her. I'm seeing that cheek here somewhat, especially in response to being told he's lackluster in the very early sections.

[morph the cat]

Should I be treating you as just fire, btw? I've seen hide nor hare of the Juniper Berries.

[morph the cat]

1) the two situations are not alike at all. that was a mechanical counterclaim. this is there's probably a scum in this group of 5 and two people in it suspect each other

2) it implies that i wouldn't know what a 1v1 looks like if i hadn't just seen one which is vaguely insulting lol

They're extremely alike, in that the scum player in a deAAAthy is already planning for a 1v1 if/when the sorting eventually occurs or the deathy is narrowed down, and is unable to endgame. In the dream game, your team had to prepare for a 1v1 lest too many people be confirmed town, and so chose to take the initiative. It's plenty alike.

2: Your face wouldn't know a 1v1. No, but seriously, that's not my implication, moreso as "You just got to see needing to prep for a 1v1, so you're more likely to have that recent memory wierghin on you when seeing the deAAAthy as scum".

OK I can see how they are alike. Are you saying Sunflower is the one who took the initiative in this game?

I think it's been on their mind all day, and it shapes how they've approached their reads on the rest of their hood.

[morph the cat]

in what ways does that show itself differently from town trying to find scum?

You seem very worried about winning a 1v1 with anyone in your hood.

You seem unconcerned with SOLVING your hood.

[morph the cat]

I'm going back to homework but I wanted to give you two some thoughts to chew on before I left.

More like a lightning bolt to the forehead.

Spoiler: in-thread masonry nobody else look

As an aside, do you think we're being too trusting of Dunn?

[morph the cat]

Spoiler: what morph said

Dunno, Herr has him higher and feels more confident. I can definitely see it, and he’s not my biggest concern in my hood at all. I don’t think scum Dunn would be stirring the pot with Oblivion thought.

Spoiler: yahhbut

I glanced at the reads list and noticed you have Dunn lower than we we do. I wondered if we're missing something. And you have access to hood-Dunn so

[morph the cat]

Spoiler: meh

The hood really is boring, and I don’t have a ton of scum Dunn hood meta to compare to? But it’s like pulling teeth to get any of these fuckers to talk. Cakez has literally posted once in there and we al know how bingle feels about it.

That leaves us, fire, spiffy, Dunn.

So.

Yeah it does sound like a wet firecracker from here.

masonry point made, I think.

we're paying a TON of attention to your hood reads in lieu of a bolt hole of our own.

[morph the cat]

the whole cakez was too affraid to post thing and was too slow to respond stuff is really really dumb guys.

Like are u listening to urselves on that shit?

Do u all remember even what ur talking about with regards to the question? The question from pooky was about how he knew it was notsci but not read anything. The answer can be as simple as he read 2 pages prior.

IT can be that fucking simple, and yet we have people here taking it like there is a some sort of grand mystery that cakez has to hide from because he got outted.

Fucking dumb as shit.

Hell, i have been hounded for stuff like that where i say "I haven't reaad shit" and actually read a few pages prior and then people focused me down for this "INCONSISTENCY". No its called me exaggerating that i am very not well read on the game so i didn't tell u that i haven't read everything which is true.

It can be that simple. In fact I expected it to be that simple from town-Cakez.

[morph the cat]

Firebringer do you remember that game where you argued Cakez-town til you were blue in the face when Cabd scumread him off one of his first posts?

Are you doing that again?

[morph the cat]

ur not cabd

No but you're quoting him.

[morph the cat]

Of the people who have voted me if i wanted to start questioning digging into it would be skitter/ydra hydra. Thats as much as i can give at this point

We too would love to firm that up directionally.

[morph the cat]

Hey neuter, you around to talk some league with me? My brother was just telling me about this really annoying game he just had

About to sleep but saw this. I sorta gave up league lately. I only play when penguin wants to ARAM or botgame, don't have the time or energy for playing PVP games these days that aren't exactly mafia.

[morph the cat]

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

[morph the cat]

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

[morph the cat]

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

[morph the cat]

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

[morph the cat]

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

[morph the cat]

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

[morph the cat]

cabd, I dont exactly love the peanut gallery being in full effect when I am trying to force a conversation

I'm going to bed so it's all you bud.

[morph the cat]

Luke it's not as controversial as I thought because morph is also scumreading them

Herr is townreading shello, but I didn't really love skitter's intro, nor did I love 1888.

I'm basically relying on my ydra read. Skitter hasn't impressed me either way, though the way that pile-on happened after my Sunflower vote was pretty funny. It's not like I've been telegraphing my read fire's first few posts.

At least I hope that was Skitter. :/

i was #townily thinking about the game earlier today and was wondering if this is the sort of game where wolves are just unable to really break into the like 'towny' or social core enough to really do a lot and are just trying to ride it out or s/t only to get steamrolled in a few days time

Yeah, maybe.

town: [oblivion, hermit crab]

town for now, maybe revisit later: [pooky, shello, dunnstral]

townlean: [marci, std]

light townlean, will continually revisit: [dannflor, luke]

low content but gut leans a little towny: [firebagel, gypyx...?]

the rest also sort of fit into tiers for me but im not feeling particularly great about any scumreads so i will leave this as a town half readlist

For anyone else curious, this leaves a PoE of:

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Spiffeh
experience/ActionDan
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
PenguinPower
Cat Scratch Fever

I also cross referenced these names in sunflower's iso, and

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd) -- called maybe town, but also seemed to tie that up in a preflip on Spiff/AD?

Firebringer - voted, said felt better about them tho when he moved his vote
experience/ActionDan - has voiced suspicions, but ranked lower then klick

Spiffeh - has called scummy

Klick - scum guess in hood
Cat Scratch Fever - recently voted.

Does not appear in Sunflower's iso at all:

Brian Skies
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower


I guess the only surprising one is morph? Everyone else makes sense to not make his list

I'm not at all surprised where we are in fireisred's list based on her play around us. I was particularly amused at how hard she came at me/us after I voted her.

Hey neuter, you around to talk some league with me? My brother was just telling me about this really annoying game he just had

About to sleep but saw this. I sorta gave up league lately. I only play when penguin wants to ARAM or botgame, don't have the time or energy for playing PVP games these days that aren't exactly mafia.

I'm here, though. Can we talk about something else?

Sunflower, what are your current thoughts on morph?

ffery is town and cabd is scum

lmao. ffery voted you.

Luke do you want to talk about your concerns with us?

[morph the cat]

the way morph handled trying to sort me earlier in the game was just full on busy work and a complete divorce from how they've tried to sort me in past games

i feel a lot of their posting is an pale imitation of the brand of sorting they are actually capable of, instead I think their posts are more focused on looking town / spreading mist / whatever you wanna call it

i think the way they are pushing sunflower/klick together is weird and really agenda'd and not in a good way - I'll admit some part of this is stemming from thinking sunflower/klick are both town

this whole entire interaction with sunflower is very bad faith

and there's a couple things about how they rolled out the deAthy thing that makes me think they were informed

anyway there's that

You are completely divorced from how I've seen you in past games.

Town you made this comment in the first game we played.

I don't really have a read on morph the cat despite their volume of posts which is a little worrying

like there's an aggressive charisma there but a lot of the posts feel performative in a NAI way. I don't think the case on T3 is super indicative either way. at that point it is assumed T3 will be dead either way - which ever way T3 flips, piling on more actually makes morph look good because multiball

I feel like I'm doing something similar in this game. I'm giving you room to do stuff without me breathing down your neck, and observing what you do with it.

I found town-you in that game despite scumreading the absolute hell out of the player you replaced. If you're town here, I believe I can find you this time, too.

[morph the cat]

Also, you're absolutely wrong about neuterhalf not believing what he says.

Ask him to unpack stuff. He doesn't bite.

much.

[morph the cat]

I found town-you in that game despite scumreading the absolute hell out of the player you replaced.

yeah and you did that by diving my meta and finding a tell by yourself that you were very confident in, not asking me if i can point you to another game where i was demotivated by mech

I do remember that I scum read your posting as performative previously and it's possible I'm doing that again

I don't actually want to kill you today anyway, in some part because I don't really have the tools to do that in this game, but your interactions with fireisredsir made me mad so now I'm coming out with this. it was probably a mistake but whatever

I'm recovering from COVID. Again. And my brain is not at its finest atm.

I'm not going to search for a game in a haystack, though I'd definitely take a look at games people point me to.

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

I haven't played with you in over a year, and before that, I'd played 2 games with you. Are you expecting me to somehow have kept tabs on how your game has changed?

Anyway. you probably do deserve a meta refresh.

[morph the cat]

Had to check the activity log to make sure I hadn't missed an experience post :/

[morph the cat]

I'm running out of steam. Luke, I'm not sure if you're working on a post still or not. I'll hang in for 20-30 more minutes maybe more if I can keep my eyes open.

[morph the cat]

Just skimming, I see you may have confused some cabd posts for mine. 2140 wasn't me.

I'll go through the whole thing and respond before I call it a night.

[morph the cat]

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

I think the way I look at Pooky's entrances are just really different from yours. And I was annoyed that he was once again starting the game assuming we're scum or at least appeared to. Hence my snippiness there.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

I have to deal with my memory atm, and I guess so does everyone else. BUT, it doesn't matter to my Sunflower read that other players said something similar. It's how sunflower's statement came off to me in the context of how I'd read everything he'd posted to that point.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

I didn't miss it. I just don't agree that it's totally a joke. I have thoughts about what/how he claimed, and I'll save them for when/if they become relevant.

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

I was really wanting a sync then for a number of reasons, but I was willing to go ahead anyway and left that choice to you -- whether you wanted our coordinated thoughts or just mine.

If I recall correctly I went ahead and responded to your reads before Cabd and I had a chance to discuss stuff today. That's because I don't like to leave stuff hanging for long.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

I had a lot to catch up with in thread. I really needed to do that before working through thoughts with you or anyone else. I woudn't have wanted to catch up with Cabd before I'd read through everything since ~9:30 PM my time last night.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

I was more interested in understanding your thoughts and seeing where we differed than I was in convincing you I was right.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

Not so much the back foot as just, "hmm. yeah I do tend to get into timestamps when someone is slow to reply to something that should be easy for town to just spit out". And then I thought about the game where I really pissed a player off looking at how quickly they'd processed the game on replacing in. especially as someone who replaced in shortly after he did!

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

it actually did feel a little like a read shift after I thought about it a bit. And that did concern me because you're one of the stakes in the ground this game, and if you're misreading me then I need to think about what that does to my trust of your reads.

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

^^ Hence that comment.

Since the rest of this is about Cabd posts, I won't get into them unless you have something specific about them you want my thoughts on.

Spoiler:

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"
[/quote]

eeeeh that was fun to reply and format.

[morph the cat]

sigh

That stake's somewhere in midair in tornado country.

[morph the cat]

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

From prior experience, yes

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

From prior experience, yes

heh!

Reading through the Pooky/Bingle stuff has reminded me of how I reacted to Bingle's play early day one of Yggdrasil. Everything he posted was scummy to me, and as it came out he was intentionally being scummy as an inno child. I don't intend to get into bitch-eating-crackers mode with him this game.

I think I've been expressing my observations and reactions in widely generalized terms. It's kind of where my head is at so far. Anyway the part of Bingle's posts that I think hold some truths or half-truths aren't about the 3rd party claim. I believe there probably is a 3rd party, maybe more than one, but I expect most players are at least entertaining the possibility just due to the size of the player list. I'm totally agnostic about Bingle being 3rd party, and don't really care for now.

The comments (including Sunflower's) about the possibility of a hood membership shuffling role or roles resonate, and in fact Bingle's posts about it being contingent on not voting (in some way, not necessarily the blanket way he presented over a few posts) resonates.

My quoting both Bingle and Sunflower in my vote-post may look like I think they share alignment. I don't explicitly think that.

I do think that scum either would have a hood membership manipulation ability or at the very least have hard knowledge that a mechanic of that sorts exists, not just speculation.

I was kinda hoping to come back to a cabd response, but alas

It was a little early for Cabd to be making an appearance based on when he's been showing up so far this game.

So heres the thing, I had some cracking worries on morph, but still thought town, and it all kinda ramped up quickly last night.

I hated cabd's peanut gallery -> Typing out all of the things that had worried me actually strengthened them I wrote them -> And then I did not like ffery's response.

In particular her comments about the "engaging with me on my read" which felt like her general mindset of engaging with me is not what her general mindset I associate with town!ffery.

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

As a final note, sleeping (rather restlessly) over my engagement with Dannflor has smashed some of the things that concerned me in the first place. I haven't meta'd anything recent, and I'm kinda hesitant to do so because cold meta is really poor substitute for experiential meta. I'm very likely to scan a few games anyway.

And, speaking of bitch-eating-crackers mode. I think that's where I'm at with Sunflower and I need to chill for a while and reset.

unvote:

If I were going to put another vote right back down, I'd put it on cakez. I await the catchup and reengagement.

[morph the cat]

huh. I misplaced part of the quotes I wanted to reply to.

Skitter, yes, it was me who made the post with the votecount quote.

[morph the cat]

This may surprise you but my reads are fluctuating a lot this game, so I'm more interested in absorbing what others think than in pushing my reads. I took pooky's comments about wine society to heart, though, and decided to use my vote with less conviction than I generally do.

I still dont think that you identified what my problem with your engagement with my reads was.

Probably not. I know my engagement IS different, though. It's just not outside my wheelhouse, especially when not firing on all cylinders.

I do feel like I'm not being explainy enough, hence my deeper dive into my thoughts about Bingle and his claim this morning.

[morph the cat]

Also, why do you think scum-me wouldn't be on high alert trying to figure out what I wasn't doing that set you off?

[morph the cat]

Challenging you would be pushing my reads and concept of the gamestate. :/

And once again, I am NOT settled into a groove here. And if I were playing this game in a way to get more quickly settled our postcount would be considerably higher than it already is. 48 hours ago I felt like I was stifling the game by poking at EVERYTHING. We intentionally stepped back and started giving the game 8-12 hour breaks from both of us.

[morph the cat]

If I nailed you guys with this read, I will be insufferable in the post game.

If I am wrong, I will be claiming that I never believe it that much anyways

I will go out of my way to see you don't soon live this down, actually!

[morph the cat]

I engaged your list of reads that kinda started this whole thing, and that post was purely my thoughts + both halves had synced on earlier.

Aside from apparently hating that post, was there anything you wanted me to go deeper on? Anything YOU wanted to challenge?

Maybe you've done this already. If so, point out your post?

(I've been low-key griping about server side cookies all game. It's usually not much of a pain, but it's adding to my cognitive load in this game)

[morph the cat]

Luke, I've deleted my first two responses under the Thumper Rule.

Suffice to say I've been through this ringamarole from you in Bloodstained and I'm not subjecting myself to it again.

I have no desire to discuss this further for game health reasons.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: gypyx
Kinda like dannnnnns recent posts

Elaborate? scoured his ISO and what i was struggling to put into words is that he sounds very emotionally detached

that changed in the last 16 or so hours IMO.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: gypyx
Kinda like dannnnnns recent posts

Elaborate? scoured his ISO and what i was struggling to put into words is that he sounds very emotionally detached

that changed in the last 16 or so hours IMO.

well you would be WRONG *this post should be read with a dramatic gong effect playing in the background*

Opinions are by definition correct.

[morph the cat]

Hey morph, if there’s anything else you have any questions on from last night let me know. I know we threw lots of information at you all at once.

morphology is a shiny thing! I'll go back through it, though.

[morph the cat]

So. Now that I have been greenlit to start fully working with you two, advancing the gamestate is warranted. I’ve been putting in a lot of thought about our hood in particular, and I would really love to give a penny for both of your thoughts.

Dunn I always am back and forth on, I believe someone phrased it as he is easiest to read with a moderate amount of experience with him. Gun to my head, I think he’s town. I think his interactions with Oblivion felt town, alongside general good solvey feels.

agree and add neuterhalf's cheekytell.

The mouse feels town, and I don’t think he would be as overtly campaigning to change your read as scum. I think it feels way too transparent and boring, and that scum-spiffeh would much rather be sneaky to get one over then transparently poking and prodding until you guys follow suit, you know?

I'm coming around on spiffeh. I dunno if neuterhalf agrees. The strength of the clangy (to us) post requires quite a bit of counterbalance.

Basically, all my early scumreads are turning to mush. :/

Bingle is somewhat of an enigma, but bear with me on this one. While I don’t fundamentally trust everything he’s doing, I find that once in a blue moon, these players turn out to be town.

I'm not scumreading Bingle. I think that's probably clear with my this morning posts. I haven't played much with Bingle, but I do see his scumgame as much more manipulative than his town game. And I see parallels here to Yggdrasil. Do you also?

Cakeboy’s entrance leaves a lot to be desired, as we pretty much have all seen. I’m really not loving what Mr. Bear pointed out though.

What's your current pooky read?

Katniss is Katniss, and if Cakeboy isn’t scum then I think he is.

I've liked Katniss's recent posting better than what came before. But, he's never been below null to me here.

[morph the cat]

Also if we’re not scumreading anyone else in my hood that doesn’t look good for cake boy

Who's the Bear?

[morph the cat]

Also if we’re not scumreading anyone else in my hood that doesn’t look good for cake boy

Who's the Bear?

I still assume it's Pooky, but I can read the part in the post I responded to regarding Cakez and the Bear two ways. Your townread there probably clears that up but I want to dot the i.

[morph the cat]

Also if we’re not scumreading anyone else in my hood that doesn’t look good for cake boy

Who's the Bear?

If I need to show you him let me know, but he has a foam finger with both of your faces on it

Thanks!

[morph the cat]

The Thumper rule is working overtime today. I'm setting a self-imposed no touching thread rule because I'm REALLY annoyed and jaded right now.

(expired on 2024-05-03 12:20:30)

[morph the cat]

i don't really understand the luke/morph thing

Luke repeatedly said "yeah im gonna back off i don't want to pursue this further right now"

but morph was still like "OMG i don't want to keep talking about this lay off!1"

I'm pretty damn sure that was not about Luke.

I took a little exception to your post about lack of pressure, and I think neuterhalf probably did so too/more. I feel like we've applied a TON of pressure to at least one slot.

Votes are pressure, but they're not the only kind of pressure.

[morph the cat]

Ffery what are your thoughts on 1888

I feel like it's an accurate observation about spiffeh's concern with our read/reaction.

I also think spiffeh is almost as sensitive to scumreads as you are, and almost as driven to achieve UTR.

What are your thoughts?

[morph the cat]

i think that sort of self-centeredness tends to be towny

How much pressure do you think Gypyx feels at this point?

not much

I don't think we've done a very good job building pressure on anyone this game

Firebringer was the closest thing to real pressure but even that was kinda fake

I think we personally have applied a LOT of pressure on at least one slot.

This is all by memory, which I shouldn't be depending on given how many holes my memory has atm. I should go back and look more closely, given the player overlap.

[morph the cat]

wrong tab above. I decided not to post that but Dannflor changed my mind with his comment about neuterhalf's self-imposed time-out.

I think that read feels like an easy way to call towb scummy but leave room to backtrack. My immediate reaction was the two are unaligned.

maybe so. she touched right on part of what bugged me about spiffeh especially after our read 180'd.

spiffeh townread me in a dance game where basically ALL of town were scumreading me. The only players besides Spiffeh that I recall offhand expressing townreads were scum. I eventually got paranoid of him

because

he townread me.

skitter was in that game, town, and scumread me all the way to my flip, iirc. firebringer, too. fireisredsir, three. STD four, BELL!!??!! five.

This game dynamic is very, very different. I'm not trying to draw parallels. but it's probably weighing on me in small ways even so.

I'm still mostly reading the ydra head here. It makes sense for town-skitter to be more cautious about reading me here. It probably makes sense for scum-skitter to play it noncommital, too.

[morph the cat]

the last line of 2068 belonged in 2069, though.

[morph the cat]

skitter was in that game, town, and scumread me all the way to my flip, iirc. firebringer, too. fireisredsir, three. STD four, BELL!!??!! five.

I was wrong about fireisred. She was scumreading me through most the first day before all the pairs were formed, but her last couple of posts about me were expressing a townlean.

I was out of the game IMMEDIATELY after all the pairings. Scum-Cabd-partner left the dance instantly to cut off my reads-development, since I was going to leave the dance, myself, once I did have more developed reads.

Town-Gypyx was also in the game, but never really stated an opinion of my alignment.

[morph the cat]

Fwiw part of my approach is then proceeding to misread cabd in touhou also

~ skitter

Did you suspect Koishi-2 was Cabd?

[morph the cat]

But im still slughtly confused

That big post seems like discrediting morphs thoughts without actually pushing them.

Was the dephy stuff really such a shining star?

I think scum have a VERY hard time making that "realization" seem genuine and natural like they did. This coupled with the immediate transition into town locking certain players for their reactions to it (most of which I agreed with) felt very pro-Town.

I also liked them harping on Pooky for not understanding and them ultimately coming around to a Pooky townread based on his response.

I know ffery says I am overstating the mindmeld but the above is what sold me.

This is where I'm at with them.

I have experienced a game where scum!cabd crafted a series of crumbs for scum!marci to drop, for him to then spot, point at, call marci lock town for.

Which then garnered both cabd and marci town reads by both town!ffery and town!Notty.

If anyone could pull exactly what you are describing it would be cabd (he has done it before)

That is part of the reason why I think that a scum!morph puts scum!marci back on the table.

But all that being said, the overall reaction to my points leaves me feeling like falling back and letting them lead for the day is the right path.

So I think this kind of breaks down if there's a traitor in there, so i'm having a hard time seeing forming associative based reads on the hood

I do think marci is a lot more likely to be town in traitor-hood world thob

I'm kinda going back and forth on how I feel abt marci

~ skitter

we're townreading her for how she figured out her hood/role, but her reads are really off from ours and makes me wonder about what's happening in her hood as well as how she's getting to some of her non-hood reads. I don't think there's going to be much meeting of the minds with her this game day.

[morph the cat]

While I'm aware that Chuck head played plenty of games with morph before, if you wonderful folks could add some explanation of why some of the past games are mentioned and how they relate to the reads, I would be much obliged. Unless they are hidden on purpose. Then crabshrug

-Herr Mitt

Notsci initiated it. I assume I understand, but I also assume he's already discussed the same stuff with you and that you ok'd sharing with us, since he said this:

So. Now that I have been greenlit to start fully working with you two, advancing the gamestate is warranted. I’ve been putting in a lot of thought about our hood in particular, and I would really love to give a penny for both of your thoughts.

[morph the cat]

I also think it was suspect that Brian Skies didn't react to the cakez thing at all. I think he might've been the only player around the time to post but not comment on it, but instead voted firebringer.

The whole thing about timestamps and whatnot has never been something that's been in my repertoire, so I don't know why anyone would be expecting a reaction from me.

As far as I'm concerned, we're lucky to get any Cakez at all considering he should still be on V/LA.

VOTE: Cakez

What gives?

[morph the cat]

I was partly memeing when I said that, but I did have to ask what you were talking about back there!

-Herr Mitt

You're along for the ride! Keep your antennae, claws and shell inside the vehicle at all times!

[morph the cat]

A more direct question: Why are you voting Cakez?

[morph the cat]

He has the biggest wagon.

The reason I included the first quote was because it seemed like the reasons people were scumreading Cakez at the time you made that post didn't impress you.

Do you scumread him? if so, why?

[morph the cat]

vote: Brian Skies

[morph the cat]

y'all're weird.

[morph the cat]

Did i get you too or no...

I snuck up on it. copied the link and looked at the url.

[morph the cat]

I feel like you're trying to keep arguments going, Dann.

[morph the cat]

i think gypyx feels to me more like 1 player in a 22 player game than a member of a team of 5? players but it's not a strong read

SK is extremely likely in a single-groupscup-announced-by-mod setup, especially one of 22 players, so this is entirely possible.

Also greetings, it is Cabd, freed by his self-imposed timer but now chained by his family arriving 12 hours earlier than they damn well told us to plan for and now panic-cleaning the entire house in the next 45 minutes.

[morph the cat]

SK is extremely likely in a single-groupscup-announced-by-mod setup, especially one of 22 players, so this is entirely possible.

I seem to remember ceph being anti SK, as a note.

He's had SKs in games before. Though maybe not recently.

[morph the cat]

I'm still reading I'm near halfway, I'm gonna try to power through it all by the end of today

Do you have any halfway through thoughts you want to share?

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

What

games past

are you referring to? There's the obvious one, but that's "game", not "games".

[morph the cat]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

What

games past

are you referring to? There's the obvious one, but that's "game", not "games".

[morph the cat]

What games past are you referring to? There's the obvious one, but that's "game", not "games".

I have read a lot of games your hydra has played in

Heh. We actually are a hydra with a lot of games, sufficient to have actual hydra meta.

[morph the cat]

I have reasons to think both Brian and Cakez are scum. I was torn about which to vote, but Brian's Cakez vote resolved that.

Brian's vote doesn't really feel bussy to me, but maybe? Watching the votes move around since Ceph's last VC has been disturbing.

I liked Ydra making the Cakez wagon go back to top wagon. I disliked Dannflor coming off the wagon, irrelevant of why those votes happened.

The Gypyx votes are distracting. I don't think Gypyx has been nearly as straight up scummy looking as Brian and Cakez.

I'm not huge on vc analysis, and especially avoid reading into vcs without flips

But, I feel like this section of day 1 is going to be interesting when there is at least one flip in that trio.

This is giving me Yggdrasil flashbacks to when scum were trying to save Flea.

[morph the cat]

I tried showing my work in the moment as I was noticing things and got absolutely bored out of my mind. I am happy to try to describe how I came about reading people the way I read them to the best of my ability, but the only way I'm getting to a place where I viably care about this game and have something worthwhile to say about it is if I value obtaining a more solid overall perspective for now. I know this kind of runs counter to what I said before, but I just want to have fun in a Mafia game lmao.

---

I think my old reads were hot garbage so far. I think particularly my Pooky and morph townreads were quite lazy and I don't immediately see them on a second read-through. This is where I'm at from quite early on

TOWN

Cat Scratch Fever
Hermit Crab

PROBABLY TOWN

Dannflor
Oblivion
Firebagel
Shello and Goodbye

LEANING TOWN

ActionDan
marcistar
Gypyx
Lukewarm

LEFT

PookyTheMagicalBear
morph the cat
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Dunnstral
Spiffeh
Save The Dragons
Sunflower
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower

You say this is from quite early on. At what point in the game thread are these your reads?

[morph the cat]

I don't hate Cakez' catchup. I kinda expected to.

Neuterhalf left me laughter in our chat at your scumread before going to some navy weekend thing.

[morph the cat]

Brian, do you have thoughts about the composition/timing/whatever of your wagon?

[morph the cat]

I don't hate Cakez' catchup. I kinda expected to.

Neuterhalf left me laughter in our chat at your scumread before going to some navy weekend thing.

What a great way to literally give me no reason to think I'm wrong
If you don't hate my catch-up why aren't you trying to tell me why I'm wrong or open a dialogue at all?

Because I'm kinda disgusted that you'd misread me again right after misreading me so badly in Kemusan. In that game I scumread you for not just misreading me, but not even TRYING to engage with me despite my making a few efforts to engage you.

You seem to default to scum-me and you're basing your reads on Cabd, not me. So what should I engage?

[morph the cat]

Morph/ffery who should we eliminate today if not Brian or me?

Explain why not Brian, first.

[morph the cat]

I don't hate Cakez' catchup. I kinda expected to.

Neuterhalf left me laughter in our chat at your scumread before going to some navy weekend thing.

What a great way to literally give me no reason to think I'm wrong
If you don't hate my catch-up why aren't you trying to tell me why I'm wrong or open a dialogue at all?

Because I'm kinda disgusted that you'd misread me again right after misreading me so badly in Kemusan. In that game I scumread you for not just misreading me, but not even TRYING to engage with me despite my making a few efforts to engage you.

You seem to default to scum-me and you're basing your reads on Cabd, not me. So what should I engage?

I'm also gonna say Kemusan was not a fair example of my best efforts given the dance structure of the game and Cabd self yeeting before we could even vote lol

What does that have to do with your lazy-ass scumread of me in that game while I was in it? And why would you expect me to assume your catch up read of my slot isn't another lazy-ass effort?

[morph the cat]

Morph/ffery who should we eliminate today if not Brian or me?

Explain why not Brian, first.

That's not the point, Brian is a good elimination today, I'm trying to see where you are thinking elsewhere. I re-isoed you and it's difficult to get a sense of your reads in your recent posts

The bottom of my leftovers as of last night was

{Dannflor, STD}
{Brian Skies, Klick, Sunflower, Cakez}

With you at least coming to life, the two leftovers I feel most strongly about are Brian and Sunflower. But, I'm not feeling as confident about my reads as I did a couple days ago. I had Action Dan almost up in my solid townread region before he replaced out. experience being a nonentity so far is de-solidifying that read.

I don't hate Cakez' catchup. I kinda expected to.

Neuterhalf left me laughter in our chat at your scumread before going to some navy weekend thing.

What a great way to literally give me no reason to think I'm wrong
If you don't hate my catch-up why aren't you trying to tell me why I'm wrong or open a dialogue at all?

Because I'm kinda disgusted that you'd misread me again right after misreading me so badly in Kemusan. In that game I scumread you for not just misreading me, but not even TRYING to engage with me despite my making a few efforts to engage you.

You seem to default to scum-me and you're basing your reads on Cabd, not me. So what should I engage?

I'm also gonna say Kemusan was not a fair example of my best efforts given the dance structure of the game and Cabd self yeeting before we could even vote lol

What does that have to do with your lazy-ass scumread of me in that game while I was in it? And why would you expect me to assume your catch up read of my slot isn't another lazy-ass effort?

My point was we literally didn't even have one elimination that game before you died, I had no time or space to develop my read on you before I died. I don't know why you're coming at me like this for my first-draft scum reads, I'm not married to anything at this point.

I'm not coming at you. I'm responding to YOU coming at me. If you weren't, I'd be, not happy about it, but willing to float through the new posts in observation mode for now.